To Siphiwe,

Having lived in the "Transkei" for the the past 37 years having lived in Lusikisiki, as a white person I am still not allowed to ownland there because I am not black. Is this fair. In any other Democratic country I would have qualified a while ago.

Fred, PE, South Africa

Sphiwe Twala, you must have been out of Africa for some years. The current state of South Africa, fast going the Zimbabwe route, is far worse for the poor than under Apartheid. And of course the race card must once again be waved, but no mention of the fact that whites are now the dispossessed as set by ANC laws to ensure the blacks (not the whites, Indians an coloureds) can get the plum jobs regardless of abilities. But study the facts where the masses of South Africans, black, Indian white and coloured are quickly descending into abject poverty while the privileged few, whites included, but they are paying most of the taxes now, are living high but with a currency that has devalued 67% in the last two years.

And consider this, if the whites had acted as the North American settlers did in te lst 150 yaers, blacks in sub-Saharan Africa would be very much in the minority now. So be grateful you are alive.

B J Deller, Marbella, Spain

What really saddens me is that 15 months ago I was a positive white South African. We were headingin the the right direction etc. At the moment we have a President incumbent wanted for fraud etc. As a proud South African where do I stand ?

Fred, PE, South Africa

Democracy, it is said, happened in SA in 1994. As I have mentioned before, that was 14 years ago. SA's education system runs for 12 years (Grade 1 -12) Why is it that there are still quota systems in place for exceptional sports players for cricket & rugby etc. Have you ever seen an outcry because no white player has been selected to play in the national football team?

Fred, PE, South Africa

This is the second time I write this and I hope this time it will be uploaded.

Those who do not belive in equal opportunities should leave South Africa. They can sell the vast tracts of land (83%) that they acquired through murder to the indigenous people of South Africa and leave....

By African is meant anyone who believes in the right of every human being to dignity, a secure livelihood and to living a life without exploitation and oppression. These are the people that South Africa needs. Those who are incapable of grasping the very very very simple fact that white priviledge was developed and maintained through dispossession, oppression and continuing murder of the indigenous people of the land should leave because these will always oppose any attempts of making black people's lives better. More white millionaires have been created after 1994 that in all the apartheid years. White people have benefited more from the opening up of South AFrica. There is 40% unemployment amongst the black people. Black people still ive in slums and white people in leafy suburbs. The crime rate in the slums and townships has always been high. The difference now is that statistics are being collected and that crime has spilled out of the black areas into white areas. There is still discrimination in the job market...the government has passed laws to mitigate this. Those who are used to getting jobs just because they are white and not necessarily because they are the best person qualified for the job hate these laws. White graduates are still more likely to get employment within a few months of graduation. Black graduates struggle...Lets talk facts and not spew mindless racism in this Forum.

Sphiwe Twala, London, United Kingdom

Mama Jacky and Desmond Tutu should come to the aid of the Free State University cleaners! This is a great opportunity to milk the situation! Oprah Winfrey may even fly in with her mega-bucks to right the "crimes" committed against these women. I can see them crying about the traumatic experience - cannot understand why it has taken seven months for these women to come forward. But I am sure it is not too late to make huge profits! These are 20-year-old students who made a video, which they thought was funny. What maturity do you expect from a 20-year-old? That the video should be shown on CNN is beyong belief. Why do we not see the film about the attack on Jamie Patterson's family, the brutal attack on her mother and the rape of a promising young person. This wonderful family will be lost to this country, but no-one says it is racist! In the meantime, the cleaners at the University were not assaulted, not raped and not murdered. I do not think that they were traumatised.

moxie hartmann, Randburg, South Africa

Africa for Africans !!! Europe for the Europeans !!

D.HOLY, newburgh, N.Y.

Iit is heartening to see comments that tell the truth. People outside of South Africa are very ignorant of what is happening there and the fact is that the country will in about ten short years be the same as Zimbabwe. The ANC are taking the same route. There may even be terrorism again with the ANC the targets. This is not was voted for with the end of Apartheid and the vast majority of blacks are suffering more than they would have done had gone its planned route where they ruled themselves but by then it will be too late. As in Rhodesia, the outside world has meddled and ruined the future for these people except, of course, the leaders now who live in luxury.

South Africa is the murder capital of the world and the ANC government seems to be involved in promoting the crime. They are certainly failing to stop it.

B J Deller, Marbella, s

What would you say if you were told that all the black maids that brought you up that were responsible for preparing the food you ate from the time you were babies urinated in your milk and put faeces in your food? Given the fact that it is still black maids that are bringing up white babies not because it is a prefered career choice on their part but because for generations blacks have been bared from doing more lucrative jobs are you not afraid that when they realise how much these students' actions are being defended that they will themselves feel justified in putting that extra ingredient in the babies milk and food?

Lucy Pickering, Borehamwood, Hertfordshire

The latest development at Reitz hostel in The Free State is shocking, and the response is what is to be expected. I can only feel sorry for the students who find this sort of thing entertainment. It obviously comes from an upbringing of intolerance and hatred, as well as negative peer pressure.

However, how can an culture of South Africans be condemned for the actions of a few fools who are obviously in need of a reality-check? The title of this article "This is the real South Africa" is sadly suggesting this is how everyone behaves. How ridiculous!

Until the media can stop basing the actions of individuals, and small groups on entire cultures, we will not (as South Africans) enjoy the harmony of sharing a drink, a chat or an office with a fellow patriot, be he/she black, white, green, or whatever.

The actions of individuals do NOT represent the thoughts and beliefs of an entire culture of people. I would have thought this would be obvious to anyone with a little common sense.

CJ Smith, Taiwan,

I lived as a teenager in SA during the era of Apartheid and I thought it was a marvellous time.

I went back recently: Afrikaans pettily chased from every public place, Black empowerment a tool for corruption and incompetency, walls everywhere, crime hitting all South Africans, etc.

I fear the worse : multicultural nations usually don't work well (see Belgium, Canada), but the Orwellian "Rainbow" nation, may yet prove how bad they can work when a single party and ethnic group have all powers and feel such an urge to show they can rule and impose "integration" to all even when they don't want it at all. See also the latest Pledge all the school children will have to recite, obviously done to make White children feel guilty from Grade 1.

A federation of nation States (actually a kind of Apartheid...) would have been a better solution for those that really believe diversity is worth preserving and want to minimize oppression and the possible obliteration of the Afrikaners.

Carl, Montreal, Quebec

o.o walshall it is not true to say the whites are more priviledged than the blacks you dont live there you only see and hear what the media wants you to see and hear. Black people in SA are given jobs before any white person who migh be more qualified for the position. Just to give you an example of the new SA it takes up to 4months to get a copy of your birth certificate in the UK you can walk into the registras office and request one pay for it and get it immediately that is only one example of how things work over there. People want jobs but they hope not to get it because it is easier to take from others. My family alone have been robbed more than 10times in less than 2years and we work hard every day for what we have and if we dont have we dont just take from others. My mother was robbed in her own home and a knife held to her but nothing like that gets told to the world only what a white person does wrong. People should get the facts and not only stories.

C, UK,

This has nothing to do with crime, BEE, Zuma or ANC cronyism.
These students become professionals in their particular field and represent to us a new generation of south africans, freed from apartheid......However, what code of conduct will they sign and adhere to???

anna, Johannesburg,

Perhaps Darren from Switzerland has got short term memory loss. He's talking about 'discriminatoin' of Afrikaaners by the Blacks. Why is the Ritz still a White's only residence?Who created Apartheid after all in 1948?Zuma may have banned the white journalists but at least he didn't make them eat dirty meat and drink his urine.Perhaps he needs to go back to South Africa if he wants to see Orania grow.

Zakhona Ellis, Gloucestershire, UK

White farmers may have been murdered and although not high profile is in the media. However how did they get the land in the first place.? Win it in a game of cricket? NO. The land was gained using violent one sided combat too and not a fair democratic or economic transaction. The former oppressed are becoming the oppressors but it still Id don't think whites are ready to say they are as bad a the blacks were just yet. A lot of them can leave unlike the indigenous peoples who had their land stolen and no alternative of a living but to live in squatter camps. The young whites are being unfairly punished for the sins of their ancestors but they must remember that have benefited from those sins. And Ben V individual cultures must be preserved instead of a mono culture but then again what sort of culture is it that you are virtual slaves of another one which was the case under apartheid and the post world war 2 world in general

raymond, Liverpool, UK

First of all, South Africa isn't a democratic country. On paper maybe, but not in reality. The ANC's members are to a large extent card carrying members of the Communist Party. They even have a link to the CP on their website. Instead of promoting different cultures, the old communist idea of one nation at-the-expense-of-diversity is promoted. Even when Afrikaners tried to help the other 'official' languages they get met with resistance. English has become the steamroller. The rainbow is supposed to only have one colour (black) {which isn't a colour by the way} and one language, English. So many uninformed opinions exist on Apartheid and Afrikaners! Propaganda, control of the media, mob dynamics, and a minuscule opposition party all contribute to world opinion on SA, and esp. Afrikaners. The worst is this: more than 1500 farmers tortured and/or killed = silence. But this student video makes headlines over the world!! So is the sin their actions or their race/ethnicity?

Ben V, Vancouver, Canada

This incident of some juvenile students has been a true gift to the liberal press who are always biased towards the ANC when reporting Sout Africa.
Many whites are fed up of discrimination in education and jobs against them, the death of the Afrikaans language, the THOUSANDS IF MURDERS of farmers and crime out of control.
There is massive black on white racism, but the liberal press ignores this.
As the head of the Freedom Front said recently the young Afrikaners have nothing to apologise for.
Zuma recently banned white journalists from a news conference. How racist is that??
Afrikaners should ignore what the world thinks of them. I hope Orania grows, its the only hope.

Darren, Geneva, Switzerland

I think the incident that happened in UOFS is disgusting and despicable. This is not a matter of black or white, simply respect for the other human being. South Africa belongs to every South African citizen. Whether the video was prank or not, it is still disgusting. I am pretty certain that those four students have actually thought of what they were doing. Of cos they might not have expected this huge coverage of their horrible action.
Guys just forget, this cannot be compared to all the crime and violence happening in South Africa at present. Saying this is blown out of proportion is nonsense.

baba, Wellington, New Zealand

As a regular visitor to South Africa, I have to admit that little, if anything, has changed in the country since the ANC came to power. Apartheid rules ok, and not only in Afrikaaner enclaves. The exception is that the ANC has perfected what their former Boer oppressors taught them and called it by innovative names such as: 'Affirmative Action' and, wait till you hear this one: 'POSITIVE DISCRIMINATION' - surely a gross contradiction in terms. And there are very real concerns that the country will, in the not too distant future, follow in the footsteps of Zimbabwe and Kenya, with crime and lawlessness increasing almost as fast as inflation - not to mention the ESCOM fiasco. In terms of the alleged acts in the article - if they are true, it's not 'cricket' - but students, army recruits, etc have all had similar, if not worse, initiation rituals. And if they are true, the perpetrators should be punished accordingly. And some of the things Blacks are doing to whites are also unacceptable.

David, Newcastle, UK

the main issues are being ignored here, it's not about racism anymore, no reason should anyone do so wether it be staged or not, am not from S.Africa, but i think the whites are still more priveliged than the blacks. excuse my typo errors

o.o, walsall, uk

As a white South African I strongly condemn the actions of the students involved in this incident. However it is no surprise to me that racial tensions are still alive and well in the new SA. The ANC government squandered the good will of the white population who accepted the transition to multi-racial democracy remarkably peacfully. I am certain that the majority of white South Africans, including me , do not long for the days of apartheid, but neither do we wish to live under the "new apartheid" that exits now. If you are white you have little chance of getting a decent job....even if the apartheid legislation was passed decades before you were born.
Disturbingly recently white journalists were banned from a press confereces. What kind of future in SA do the young white students of this unversitiy face? So much for the high ideals of the "freedom fighters"......Apartheid is slowly returning to the beloved country.

Andrew Ingle, Guadalajara, Mexico

This incident has been blown out of proportion if you do some recearch into what happened you will find that these workers were asked to take part in a prank video, which they agreed to do it was all part of University Hazing and it was also not urine it was water. (as told in one of South Africas own media services) I do not understand why this can be shown and not things like all the murders that are currently taking place in South Africa on a daily basis people are being murdered, hijacked, raped and even babies thrown out of cars when people are hijacks this is only a few of the horrible things happening every day (minute) in South Africa but never shown to the world. Now that 4 White Afrikaners made a prank video it is shown all over the world and white people are made out to be the bad ones. Why dont the media start showing EVERYTHING that happens in South Africa and not only when a white person did something wrong.

C, UK,

The urine incident: It creates the IMPRESSION that one of the boys urinated into the bowl, it CANNOT BE PROVED either way. Either prove that fact or keep quiet, it has been assumed to be true for sensation purposes only.
Why did the workers agree to take part in the first place, were they forced, and again where is the PROVE either way? Why do they only know feel degraded many months after the incident? Any answers would be very welcome. Please try to keep in mind the small matter of FACTS versus ASSUMPTIONS. South Africa has many many more urgent problems than this.

Pieter Fourie, Berkhamsted,

What exactly is the Boer's inheritence in South Africa? The dispossion of the country's 83% of the population, the systematic murder of the country's indigenous population that lasted over three hundred years, the herding of the indigenous people off their ancestral lands into crime ridden overcrowded townships and the denial of their rights to health, education and freedom. What happened at the University of the Orange Free State is the continuation of that legacy.

The damage that this legacy wrought on the African population of South Africa is immense but after seeing the video of the students urinating into a food that will be served to human beings I realised that it is generations of Afrikaners that in the 21st century can be usefully defined as mentally retarded.

Sphiwe Twala, London, United Kingadom

I agree with Deller. Thw white South Africans are not even allowed to apply for jobs, beacause of their skin colour Apartheid is alive and well. It's just sung the other way.

D, London, UK

What these four young men did was despicable, and they should be punished appropriated for what they did.

But no one died… I would like to see a more even-handed uproar when Whites are attacked by Blacks…

An 80-year-old woman was tortured to death with boiling water: no uproar.

A White girl of 12, shot and killed by Black robbers: No uproar

An old White man, also tortured with boiling water – the soles of his feet detached: no uproar…

Until there is a more even-handed expression of disgust, on all sides, racial tensions will continue to rise.

Rod Baker, Cape Town, South Africa

As someone who keeps up to date with all that happens in SA, I agree with Jo Applebee. The ANC government has by passing laws 12 years ago now relegated whites to be second class citizens who even with the desperately needed skills are denied work because of their colour (or lack of it?). And especially the Afrikaners who have now been robbed of their inheritance twice, once by the British in the 19th Century, and now by the ANC, and who are rightly incensed to see South Africa on the way descending to the level of Zimbabwe. Most of the blacks are worse off now than they were under Apartheid with serious crime killing about 80 people a day, corruption wasting tax payers cash at all levels, blackouts with the electricity, water and sewerage now a major problem where you cannot drink reliably from the taps now. With already a desperate shortage of work, the mines are considering laying off many thousands due to no electricity. It is a sad circus there now.

B J Deller, Marbella, Spain

why is it that white people are always acting surprised when black react to racist incidents. we see the same 'surprise' in america when white students hung a noose in jena louisiana

mark jacobs, georgetown, guyana

I cannot believe that these things still happen in so called democratic country. Disgusting. We should look at ourselves and change our mindset which still believes that some people are 2nd class.

Jo Applebee, Cambridge, UK