I doubt this is all about bashing china, but there is certainly an element of bashing tibet which the chinese government are doing. there is no reason for china to be controlling tibet and no reason for it to be there. Worse of all is that most chinese people do not even know whats happening and that makes great news in our papers!

david gavin, newport, uk

I am glad to see freedom of speech and our ridiculous western mentality is yet again overcoming a what is supposed to be called peaceful event to show unity among humanity.

Glad the flame guardians were there... maybe we should dedicate an article to the yellow jackets or the protesters attacking disabled flame carriers in their silly quest to put out the Olympic flame to show how united the world is.

The universal symbol of the flame should lead all competitors to understand that it is necessary to work towards a lasting unity of mankind (in other words peace)... Maybe we should plan an invasion in China like we did in Iraq now for the good of mankind! Lets go free Tibet and let the put it full of nuclear prevention against the rise of China, put troops on every corner to keep "peace" and rip away their culture! That is of course what the world is all about isn't it ;-) Politics over unity!! Way to go mankind!

Nathan, Shanghai,

Gene Asia, Singapore,

You had experienced with Chinese security thugs in China but you did not give any specifics. Is there any word better or worse other than the word "thug".

I am a bit confused and cannot understand you.
Why must the people criticise the Government when it does its job well and is seen to bring the country forward. China was poor and weak before. The West and Japan had bullied and invaded China. The people had suffered humiliation but now it has advanced and you the west is feeling uneasy.

Gene, please give some examples of how you were pestered by the "thugs" in uniform and those out of uniform.

Gene, do the west people criticise the government just for the sake of free speech?
160408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Those of you arguing about the right to protest, and why China makes such a big fuss about it. Well IMHO protests have a different meaning in China and to China. To cut it short China have a huge population which is really not ready to think and act as modern grownups in a civilized and democratic world. They are really easy to be mislead and manipulated by events such as this one... to which direction? how about distrust of the central gov't... which is really the last thing we need now as the central gov't have been pushing so many initiatives that are not so popular with many power groups in (and out of) the country.

BTW most of this population are peasants and BTW the peasants have been the force in Chinese history to overthrow almost all of our previous dynasties.

China has its problems and you all from the free world feel free to bash and demonize the gov't (not always a bad thing for us), but just try a little to understand more, please?

Xin, Shanghai, PRC

This appears to be a case of sensationalist reporting, but it sure is allowing people to show their true colours. All I see is a lot of mudslinging and thinly-disguised racism on both sides of this issue. Can't we all just get along? Peaceful protest is allowed by right, but it seems these protesters were a little aggressive, necessitating the need for the 'flame guardians'. Protesting violently is taking away from the message that the protesters are trying to convey. I understand the underlying emotion but it might be more prudent to restrain one's self in light of what is actually being protested. Using oppressive tactics to protest oppression seems a little absurd.

Terry, Hamilton, Canada

all the bias and distortion is the what all western said Chinese gov "cracted down" the "peace protest". Fist, is the this a real peace protest?? have you western people protester bring Broadswords and oil puring on inocent Han people and burn them?? is this called peacefull protest?? Chinese govenment did what all countries' govement will and should do. All Chinese 1.3billion people includes Tibetian people here support our government. If you do not believe ask your Chinese friend, or come here, you are welcomed whatever how much you prejudice you have on China.

billy, Shanghai, China

David, thank you for your honest and insightful thoughts.
You are right.

Eunice, Dallas, Texas

OK I am reading all this justification by the Chinese for what they are doing with the Tibetans and what they want to do with Taiwan and the reasoning is that well, if someone else has ever done it than that makes it OK for them to do it? So that pretty much justifies anything and everything, right?
This keeping the press out is just blatantly keeping the world from knowing how bad things are in Tibet and other provinces in China. You may be able to point to other countries behavior but you need to consider that nobody hides reality like the communist government in China. It is a shame that you Han are so ignorant. Kill the monks, destroy their culture in the 21st century. And that is OK because of what other countries did hundred of years ago? You are still barbarians.

Randy, Fort Worth, Texas

China changed a lots in recent years. So before comment more, you should learn more about China: ordinary people live, economical and pilitical progress etc..

Nie, Toronto, Canada

Chinese President Hu Jin Tao was recognised by his superiors in the mid-1980s for his courage and ability in killing thousands of monks and nuns during his term as party boss of Tibet.

With such a capable man at the helm, the people of China -- who have forgotten the students squashed by Red Army tanks in Tiananmen Square -- are now united behind him.

Chinese are proud to be a strong nation that will not hesitate to use tanks and machine guns to flatten anyone -- monks, nuns or students -- who dare to stand up for freedom. Long live Hu and the aging men in the party politburo, and may they live even longer in their next life in hell.

Hsiaoshuang, Singapore,

To Francisco J. Gonzalez: You said '...The struggle is about HUMAN RIGHTS. The indigenous Tibetan population is overwhelmingly opposes to the rape of their environment, the suppression of their culture and the colonization of their land by Han Chinese, all of which are happening right now. We also should not forget the rampant massacres and destructions of temples and monasteries during Mao's Cultural Revolution of the 1960's. In short, Chinese rule has been harsh, destructive and opressive for Tibetans...they should be free to decide their own future!'

Modernization of Tibet, to open up Tibet, to provide free education, to better standard of living are not human rights? What do you think? To keep them isolated, like the Israel built walls separating from Palestine and gun pointing at Palestine at the checkpoints as daily routine are human rights? To keep them uneducated and to be slaves of religion is human rights? Give me a break! You just want to separate Tibet from China.

William Olson, New York, USA

Mr. Francisco J. Gonzalez, Cottage Grove, USA/Minnesota, Agree that Tibetans have the freedom to decide their future, but not by Violence!! Culture Revolution (CR) is distrasterous. But that didn't just happen in Tibetans, it was all over China. The govn't has done more to apologize and remedy for what happened during CR than US govn't did for Aboriginals.

How do you know what Tibetans want? Did you do a poll among protesters? In statistics, it's Biased Sampling. Tibet did have a rough time after China resumed its control of it in 1950s. From 1980s, situation has been improving day by day. Want to do something for Tibet, go to visit Tibet, it's good for yourself to understand the real situation and good for Tibetan's economy.

Zhongmin Luo, London, UK

I think we should do awy with the Olympics at this point. Originally , the Greek city-states which were frequently at war with each other called a truce during Olympic years in order to celebrate the games and show that adverse parties can have intercourse on some level. Today, we have made a mockery of the Olympic tradition and are using the games as a stage for political expression. No matter which country hosts the games, some faction will have real grievances to protest. If the U.S. were to host this year's games, would we feel indignant if people protested what we have done in Iraq?

Paul, Princeton Junction, NJ

You're missing the point. You cannot change the past, but you can learn from it and change the future.

Tony, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

I think the author of the first post missed the point. People are protesting based upon what the Chinese did fifty years ago, they are protesting what the Chinese are doing today in Tibet. I love how people will twist facts to support their point of view.

Sam, Los Angeles,

Myself participated the pro-China assembly in Toronto Canada few weeks ago.
There were about 2000 people there, some were young, they maybe students or as Nic said were "spy".
But many were old and senior people too, from their faces I am sure I knew they are not spy.
Myslef is not spy too.
We went out to support Olympic Games, no one paid me for doing that. I worked and lived in Canada and USA for many years, neither China nor CIA paid me anything, or even bother to contact me.
I do not China is really paying too much for so many spys.
Nic from Romania comment was totally out of line. I realized people from east-Europe sometime are so bias, that is much worse that west Europen.

Nie, Toronto, Canada

Those protesters will only make China more United than before, take a look of the responses real Chinese had so far...so it's very stupid to have such crown sences by whatever the protesters. Before this, China may be only an economic power, but it will be a patriot power now, since the young Chinese will be rooted by this. Why not those simple headed protesters think twice before they grab the troch?

sara simpson, San Fransisco, USA

The comments by Han Chinese posters here miss the point completely, which is not unexpected since they are the product of a repressive regime that uses history to justify human rights abuses. Whether Tibet was historically a province of the Chinese Empire during the T'ang or Qin dynasties, or now a part of the so-called People's Republic of China is irrelevant: the issue is what the Tibetan PEOPLE want. The struggle is about HUMAN RIGHTS. The indigenous Tibetan population is overwhelmingly opposes to the rape of their environment, the suppression of their culture and the colonization of their land by Han Chinese, all of which are happening right now. We also should not forget the rampant massacres and destructions of temples and monasteries during Mao's Cultural Revolution of the 1960's. In short, Chinese rule has been harsh, destructive and opressive for Tibetans...they should be free to decide their own future!

Francisco J. Gonzalez, Cottage Grove, USA/Minnesota

Using a positive event such as the Olympics to further someone's political stance is rediculous. Protests in general are such a time waste and drain on public safety resources. Despite what one thinks about China/Tibet, this is not the time/place for such childish acts of trying to force your outcries upon the world and get your 15 seconds of 'look-at-me'. MOST are happy about the Olympics in Beijing! This has NOTHING to do with PERCEIVED events in Tibet (you only know what the tv and papers tell you). As well, the rest of the world, Americans in particular, need to butt-out of everyone's business. Tibet is part of China. If Tibet wants to break free, let them sort it out with China. (Reminds me of the dope smokers in CA, passing laws contrary to US). CA wants independence too? LOL. Everyone just wants to jump on the bandwagon and jump around holding signs about X topic (wearing furr, abortion, war in Iraq, inmate rights, blah blah). Bunch of crybaby liberals. Take care of your own fam

Brian, Alhambra, USA

Just remember how the Chinese gov't financed, protected, supported, and provided arms to the Pol-Pot gov't in Cambodia throughout the 70's that led to the mass genocide in that country; and how the goverment tried to hide SARS when the epidermic hit China. The massacre in Tibet is just another face of communist China.

Andre, Baltimore, MD, USA

As an active participant in the successful anti-communist Revolution of 1989 in East Europe, I am appalled to see how many Chinese communist agents disguised as "ordinary citizens", "students proud of their heritage", etc. are living around in the free world and unmask themselves with impunity during such events. Political oppression and human rights abuses should be unmasked and forcefully critized on all occasions. "We should not use the Olympics for political purpose" but that's exactly that one of the most criminal regimes in the history of the world is doing. Remember the Tien An Men Square massacre! These protests happen because the communist Chinese propaganda machine decided to poke everybody's eye around the world with this "World Tour" of the flame. They happen because of the present oppression of Tibet and Chinese sponsorship of the genocide in Darfur. As for Zhao, David and Chris above, I know how to spot a communist agent when I see one and that's what they all are.

Nic, Bucuresti, Romania

Tibet's history outlined China is a unified multi-ethnic country, since ancient times Tibet is an inseparable part of China. As early as in 2070, living in the Tibetan inhabitants living in the Central Plains and the links of the Han nationality. And after a long period of time, the Tibetan plateau of the many tribes dispersed gradually unified, a Tibetan now. Tubo Dynasty in the seventh century, China has entered a new historical stage. Tang Dynasty (618-907) established a powerful unified regime, the end of the Central Plains region more than 300 years of confusion split situation. At the same time, the Tibetan hero Songtsan Gambo mergers dozen tribes and clans, in the Tibetan plateau to achieve reunification, formally established the Tubo Dynasty, and its capital logic娑(today Lhasa). Songtsan Gambo in power, determined to fix Tang Ting, the Tang dynasty learn advanced production technology and political cultural achievements. He was twice sent to the Minister Tang Ting proposal, in the year 641, Emperor Taizong of the married women in Princess Wen Cheng. Songtsan Gambo Caojiu introduced from the Tang Dynasty, milling, Zhimei, such as production techniques, sent to the children of aristocrats Chang'an (now Xi'an) study Shi-Shu, Han scholars to engage the Fan Code Table infrequent, and the Tang Dynasty in the political, economic , and cultural areas have maintained a very friendly relationship.

zhao, tianjin, china

The Americans today shouldn't be blamed for their ancestors' racist attitudes and disgusting government policies of the past (from the days of the Pilgrims to the 1800s) against the Native Americans. The forced migrations of the American Indians from one place to another such as the Trail of Tears is just horrible. So if the Americans shouldn't be blamed for the actions of their ancestors just as the Australians shouldn't be blamed for the actions of its ancestors against the Aborigines, why is it ok to burn/loot/kill/maim the Han/Hui Chinese living in Tibet and TARs for the actions of the Communist government over 50 years ago? How come I didn't see anyone protesting the Atlanta Games regarding the US and its past when it comes to the Native Americans? Why no protests against the Sydney Games regarding the Aussies and its past when it comes to the Aborigines? Should we start planning protests against the 2012 London Games for the past English mistreatment of the Irish, Welsh...?

David, Los Angeles, CA

Does the author suggest that next time when Gordon Brown will go to China, he should go by himself? no bodyguards, no secrurity guys...woops..that's gonna be very funny.

mm...maybe this is a good idea. coz it is definitely gonna to save us lots of paid tax. Why use money on them? no need at all.

Chris, london,

I think that people are going to get fed up with this Tibet stuff. It is fast losing its appeal. Anyway, the protesters are usually small in number. They don't have as much real support as the media would like to portray them as having.

Bryant, Presidio, TX/USA

I'm fed up of all this China bashing exercise and biased press

The Chinese authorities are far from being the most angelic regime in the world, but considerations had to be made before the decision to award the Games to Beijing.

Chinese citizens have put lots of efforts in preparing the Games and were looking towards the opportunity to open up to the rest of the world. In return, we reward them with a show of hatred (racism ?) that will only help broaden misunderstandings and fuel extremism. Is this the best way to make things improve in China ?

Where were all the demonstrators when the games have been awarded to Sydney, Australia, where aborigenes have been robbed of their land, and even their children not so long ago ?

And about the "peaceful tibetans", just do a google search with "dalai lama cia", or an image search with "dalai lama Shoko Asahara" (yes, the sect leader who released sarin gas in Tokyo subway), or "dalai lama nazi", or "dalai lama Mao"

Surprised ?

Cliff, Paris,

"Perhaps the Chinese people should use this moment to realize that as Americans we have done the same thing to our American Indians and now regret our heavy handedness."

Of course we regret it. In fact, we regret it so much that we have all voluntarily returned the land taken, and have gone back to our ancestors' places of origin. Oh wait...

Vin, Louisville, US

To: Santi Burgos Spain,
Why the Chinese are so Nationalistics? Because China had been invaded by the Western Countries since from the 18 th Century, including Spain! They came to China : to Rub the Ancient Chinese Arts/Ceramics etc., to Slaughter the people and to set fire on Chinese Palaces. These are all facts, if you go to the Meseums in London or Paris you will see all the Chinese Ceramics/Paintings on display most of them were stolen away from China!
Not to mention about the invation by the Japanese during the WW11. Thousands and Thousands of innocent Chinese were killed by the Japanese (Please read the Book;"Rape of Nanking"). If you studied the Chinese Histroy then you know China has never been an agressive nation towards other countries. In order to protect their country from the invaders and not to let the Histroy happening again, then China has to be strong and it's people must be Patriotic and nationalistic!

george chiang, Lafayette, CA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rGpT1sKN6Q

What thugs? See the video. These guys only held on to the torch to protect it from being snatched away. It was the British policemen who wrestled the protester to the ground.

MatthewTan, Singapore, Singapore

Born in China, educated in Chinese &Western universities,I have been living & working in America and Europe for 16+ yrs. In 1989, I was among those students to improve China politically and economically. I believe students had the right to protest, but went too far. China could have gone back to Cultural Revolution. Chinese gov't had the right to prevent that; but, it also went too far, not as far as Western media portrayed. What did Western media & gov't do? US state-sponsored Voice of America instigated and lied to students with news like the deaths of Primier, then Chairman, making students believe they were winning. Today, US gov't has agency for Tibetan affairs. Should Chinese govn't have US Aboriginal Agency or African American Agency? CIA trained Tibetan army in the 50/60s as they did for Osama. What benefits can you gain from a distablised China? Wars? Exdus of refugees to US, UK. Many anti-China protestors are paid Pro or want to get pictures and seek political asylums!!

Zhongmin Luo, London, UK

I had my first exposure of PRC security thugs in uniform back in mid 1970s when I made my first visit to the mainland China. But there are more thugs not in uniform in Chinese cities today. What does one expect to meet when CCP told them to get rich quickly while they had learnt socialist or communist teachings when young? Being thugs is no big deal so long as one does not appear to be toppling the government.

The communist party there is too sensitive to criticism and will lock up anyone who is likely to criticize the regime, with their own set of laws and regulations.

The Open Society in the west may not be perfect but it does allow those living in it to speak out and criticize or preach that it is still not good enough. To do the same in PRC today or tell CCP to step down and let other parties run the great motherland is not a welcome act, to say the least.

Gene Asia, Singapore,

Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heath
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his halfe cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open eye-
(So priketh hem Nature in hir corages);
With torches thanne orient folk to goon on pilgrimages
And palmeres for to stinguer fir in their torches
To humble them in name of fredom sund touches

But if the protester cherish their freedom as it seems
Then, how can they humiliate the feelings of people more than a billion’s?

chen, beijing, china

Don't worry, once the Olympics are over most of the western world will forget about this. Our populations have a very short attention span,especially our mainstream media.

Goran, Chicago, USA

What is the famous quote?

"All it takes for evil individuals to rule is for good people to look the other way when it is happening."

Obviously not exact but you get the picture. I believe this is the problem of our day.

The Tibetan people are being overrun by Han Chinese. China is inundating the Tibetan landscape with ethnic Han to extinguish the Tibetan cultural flame. Realisticly China is digging their own grave. They are angering the viper which they have taken to their breast. In the future the peaceful Tibetans will bite their current masters. If you pay attention to the news of the day the Chinese are also doing the same thing to another of their minority groups the Uighers(mispelled, sorry). Perhaps the Chinese people should use this moment to realize that as Americans we have done the same thing to our American Indians and now regret our heavy handedness. You as Chinese people are empowering your government to do the same thing. Only Chinese improve their futures.

Brian, Memphis, USA

Christmas tree was a pagan tradition, yet Christians around the world view it as an indispensible part of Christmas. Given the logic that the Olympic torch tradition should be forfeited simply because it was initially used as a propaganda media, then Christmas tree should also be forfeited....

Roe, Jakarat,

yes today it is these blue clad thugs pushing us around in our own countries. tomorrow it will be the chinese army doing the same . this olympics is a farce.

gerry, pittsburgh, pa

This is just a small taste of how that government operates. They believe they have the right to do whatever the hell they want, wherever they want.

If you think this is bad, you should try living in China. "Blue Men" are everywhere and God help someone who comes onto their radar.

And stop up above with the moral equivalency crap! Western liberal democracies have legal recourse systems that are as transparent as good people can make them. Dictatorships like China have legal systems that are black holes.

You don't disappear if you insult the government.

Maggio, Jarbige, Nevada

so when British PM or US president visit China or any other countries, they don't bring their security guards? Who authorize that? If the guard is only to protect not to attack, it is OK. It is just common sense if pepole use their brains before they choose their positions.

Matt Dystra, Kansas, USA

It was a very strange scene at 10 Downing Street with the Blue Men being so close to the Prime Minister. The UK security establishment should be highly concerned with people getting so close to the PM. Cancel the remainder of the torch running..it has become too dangerous and violent for all involved. And to the writer Mao Tao from Shangai, we don't want to import poorly trained gestapo agents ruling our streets!

Steve G. NY, USA

Steve , NYC, NY, USA

Christophe from Paris

I suppose blowing up a Greenpeace boat in Auckland harbour was an act of love then?

A Thorn, London,

I think China has a right to protect the court. All these people complaining about being hit were trying to grab the torch in the first place. Not like they are just randomly attacking people. Besides some of those people trying to grab the torch can seriously injure someone.

Janna, Miami, FL

Boycoting these games.
not watching any of it.
we should all boycot it. i'm gonna be honest that i can't relate with the idea of free Tibet, or china Tibet. could care less.
But when u start kicking out foreign reporters and independant media, you know some shady stuff is going on. and i don't like shady stuff

Rob, Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais, Brasil

To continue my statement.

I completely understand why China sent its own guards, the only question I would have here is in their visa applications did that state they were military, if they did then no problem, if not then they should have their visa revoked and removed from the country they are in at the time and sent back to China.

I keep seeing on here people stating that well the US did this or the UK did this or France did this. When I see that and all must remember this.
When you look to justify you actions by saying some one else did something that really means you have no justification for your actions. What is right is not what others did but what you did. THe US and UK have done some things we are not proud of but when our goverments do something we don't like we are free to let them know and protest and what every we wish that is legal to get the to change. Since my wife is Chinese I know you in China can't do that yet. In a few years China will join the world

Robert, Midwest City, Oklahoma

This is for Wang Anxiang, Jinan Shandong, PR China, It seems that you have been told that the US and UK goverments assigns people to protest. First off if the goverment here in the US came and told me to go potest something I would more than likely tell them to go take a flying leap or worse and I think that is what the people in the UK would do but not sue since I can not speak for them but from living there a few years and knowing a little about the people there I am fairly sure that is what they would say to their goverment.

Now since you made the statement that the US and UK goverments had people protesting, this tells me that more than likely the Chinese goverments has it's people do that. Am I not right, now think about it and tell the truth? No don't tell the truth on here since I am sure you would be arrested if you did so just think about it and protect yours self by not saying a thing.

got more to say but no more room will state in next posting.

Robert, Midwest City, Oklahoma

To mao tao, shanghai, china, no thanks I will live with the crime as you say we have but live free.


And I would gladly help you fight for your freedom when ever the people of China makes up their mind to be there own rulers. And since my wife is Chinese I pay that day comes soon.

Robert, Midwest City, Oklahoma

“In some sense, Olympic torch is more important than American President, because it belongs to the whole world.”-Can, Syracuse, NY”

Are you crazy? The torch is not a human being.

Tony, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

“Let's force the Injuns from the Great Plains and march them to the swamps of Florida, for example. Who cares if many died along the way from disease, hunger, cold... -Atar, Los Angeles, USA”

Ahem, there were a lot of Native Americans in Florida to being with. I think you’d find that many were forced north and west. I believe it was called “The Trail of Tears” and it is a disgrace that we will carry forever. Going after the American people for the atrocities that took place against the Natives is as bad as persecuting the Germans because of the actions of the regime 60+ years ago or that slavery was legal in the US until 143 years ago . The point that is missed is that these countries have learned and are still paying forms of restitution for their heinous crimes. Why would you continue to harp on the issue? If your child broke a rule would you continue to punish him for the rest of his life, or allow for the fact that he learned from his mistake and move on? Advancement...

Tony, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

The WW2 commentary is way off topic. Yes, the US did come into the war late and help liberate Europeans and Chinese. Yes, they are thankful for our help (even though many free spew venom towards us.) Yes, the USA joined the war late after the Europeans and Russians were decimated. Yes, we did not have the enormous task of rebuilding our nation afterward (and paying restitution, in the case of Germany and Japan.) The war severly damaged the infrastructure of the world superpowers and left the US in a strong position. This is extremely simplified, but it's history. The US has a difficult role to play in world politics and there are not clear-cut answers.

Overall, I am tired of anti-US sentiment. Yes, I am embarrased by many of my fellow citizens, but I do not brazenly throw around stereotypical assaults at citizens of other nations. Please think before you speak (or type.) You words betray your message.

Tony, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

This is so incredibly funny. A bunch of people trying to keep a flaming stick alight while a second bunch of other people protest what the flaming stick means and try to put it out. This sounds like something out of a tale of absudism. I support the Dalai clique( does Ju Jintao read the drivel he spouts?), the Tibetan people( now is the time for the snow lion to roar) , and will boycott the Olympics in any and every possible way I can. I won't do business with any of the companies sponsoring the 2008 Olympics in any way. I won't support any politician, celebrity, or other person of note who attends this travesty(I don't support these people any way). If the torch were coming to Portland, Or we'd show the world how to put out a flaming stick. As it is not, I have only my thoughts to offer. The Olympics are dead. The IOC should loose all credibility over this debacle. The games themselves are about to sink as low as 1936 standard. This whole affair reeks of cynicism and commerce.

John, Portland, Oregon/ Republic of Cascadia

China has the responsibility to protect the flame. Imagine their fear of embarrassment that would occur if something were to happen to the flame during the trip.
Our concerns over human rights issue are not going to be addressed as long as we are unwilling to be objective.
I am not concerned with paramilitary units on US soil, the blue suits are easy to recognize.

Michael Rattler, Kannapolis, USA/NC

It was a mistake to award China the privilege hosting the 2008 summer Olympic, even a mistake to give it a permanent seat in the UN Security Council in 1972, given their record of human rights violation and mistreatments of their people. The Olympic Torch is a symbol of peace and unity, but Beijing has tainted it with its recent regression and crushing the demand of independence of the people of Tibet.

Being protector of the Olympic Torch in a host country, not your own country, does not give you a right to man-handle or rough handle the citizen or visitors of the host country. Your job is to protect the torch and flame, not pushing or westling others. That's the job of the security folks of the host country. You are allowed to come to the host country on the visitor visa, so act like visitor, not owner of the street.

Nguyen, Saigon, Vietnam

even there are many political and human right problems, we will ask our government to improve these problems by ourselves, rather than libels and censures of others.
If i ask Bush to withdraw troops away from Iraq, will he agree?
foreiners should come to China to understand the opinions of Chinese who is the only people have right to comment on their government.

vincent, Shanghai, China

Hey, guys, I’d just like tell you something about present Beijing. It’s getting warmer and warmer, peach and rosebay blossom here and there along the street, poplars’ poising, while willows can no longer wait burgeoning green, the same as those fashionable girls who’s already pulled on their skirts. Workers are busy repaving the avenue (which had already been repaved a little while before) near the main stadium Nest (designed by the Swiss, Jacques Herzog & the French, Pierre de Meuron). The workers are somewhat poorly paid, yet the income can help their family a lot, or even to support his child to study in a university. Price has risen up from the end of last years, house wives in Carrefour or Wal-Mart are complaining while chock up their trollies with foods and mineral waters. My son, five years old, lost one of his milk tooth yesterday, went back and very proudly declared that he’s the first one among his class in the kindergarten. Sorry for my poor English.

chen, beijing, china

I'm confused as to why we are allowing China to become an economic superpower. There are plenty of places around the world that could manufacture our western consumer goods, not least our own countries. This regime spells trouble and we are bankrolling it. Also I'm fond of the French but their brand of imperialism was the most oppressive by far, and I'm finding some of the French messages here a little sanctimonious.

Andy, Forest of Dean, England

There is no excuse for the Chinese government's position on human rights. Their actions are neither just or peaceful. The suppression of the media is a red flag, and you should know China has always used propaganda to the effect of deception. Their refusal to discuss these matters show an undesserved sense of self satisfaction. They are lucky to hold the torch for any reason. SO suffer the consequence of you unpopularity now. Holding the Olympic Torch is the biggest favor anyone has ever granted China. They have an opportunity to make a grand gesture. Instead they believe that the opportunity to host the games was not purely political and somehow earned.

It will be the first in a long succession of boycotts.

Julian Riano, Austin, TX

The country that hosted the Olympic Game is merely a pro temp party organiser and the steward, supervised by the IOC to ensure the world could enjoy the events and inspired by the spirit in reaching excellence and fair play through sports. China has reached out to the world, welcoming participants and visitors. It is an affront of common courtesy to abuse China’s good will by misrepresenting everything its government and its people try to do in and for the Game. A case in point is your distorted pictures painted and remarks quoted about the Chinese guards of the Olympic torch. It is sinophobic to denounce China for trying to ensure it does its best to protect the torch, the symbol of the Olympic during the torch relay whilst it is in its watch. The Times’ article on ‘Unmasked ---’ used most the materials left from an article that appeared in Ming Pao, a Hong Kong Chinese Newspaper printed on the previous day. Whilst the materials are essentially the same, Ming Pao's tone is less biased

Stephen T, Manchester, UK

good job guards! keep those rowdy protesters in check!
protests are suppose to be peaceful anyway, i was in SF yesterday and the pro-tibet protesters were much less in numbers than china-supporters.... but they were really loud and obnoxious! come on, give it up already, it's a sporting event, uniting the world.... don't drag all your political agendas into this, it's not cool at all!!!!!

Ning, SF,

Yes, there are some flame guardians from China, whatever their background is. What about your soldiers killing people in Iraq, in Afghanistan?

Meng Yong, Beijing, China

Hey, guys, I’d just like tell you something about present Beijing. It’s getting warmer and warmer, peach and rosebay blossom here and there along the street, poplars’ poising, while willows can no longer wait burgeoning green, the same as those fashionable girls who’s already pulled on their skirts. Workers are busy repaving the avenue (which had already been repaved a little while before) near the main stadium Nest (designed by the Swiss, Jacques Herzog & the French, Pierre de Meuron). The workers are somewhat poorly paid, yet the income can help their family a lot, or even to support his child to study in a university. Price has risen up from the end of last years, house wives in Carrefour or Wal-Mart are complaining while chock up their trollies with foods and mineral waters. My son, five years old, lost one of his milk tooth yesterday, went back and very proudly declared that he’s the first one among his class in the kindergarten.

chen, beijing, china

Some seem not to understand the meaning of the term 'UK'. Those asking for the UK to 'free' Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, what you mean is England 'free' those countries. You are clearly unaware that we are in the process of devolution to allow these countries autonomy (something the English will never get)
Scotland became part of the UK when their King became king of England also (James VI/I) and were not invaded by those nasty english oppressors (god knows we tried, problem is the Scots are just that much harder/tougher whatever than we english)
Northern Ireland is an incredibly complex issue. The UK are not in a position to 're-unite' NI with Eire as some in NI are opposed to it and there is the possibilty it could spark civil war (of a sort)
UK citizens on the whole are opposed to our involvement in Iraq. Judging by comments here, the Chinese are keen to defend their countries human rights record. We are not hypocrites, you are.

AK, Pig Hill ,

Paramilitary thugs ? Blue uniforms, black uniforms, khaki uniforms we all have them. It has been remarkable to see how various states have been happy for variously bedecked thugs to join together to beat up the local citizenry - kind of a thugs olympics really. Facist tendancies do not lurk far below the surface of any government these days.

Chris, Haslemere,

China is committing cultural genocide in Tibet. The ruins of thousands of Tibetan schools dot the Tibetan countryside, destroyed by the Chinese military. Tibetans are refused jobs by the Chinese. Tibetan monks and nuns are tortured with electric cattle prods by the Chinese military. The Dalai Lama, a Tibetan spiritual leader, has been exiled from his own country by the Chinese. His successor has been kidnapped and imprisoned by the Chinese government, who refuse to let any aid agencies see him. The Chinese are attempting to erase and eradicate all Tibetan culture.

If Tibet was always a part of China, why are their two languages completely different? Why did China have to INVADE Tibet?

To all Chinese: Your government is lying to you. At least there are people in America and the UK who can admit to their human rights violations. Can you do the same? Can you admit you are carrying out cultural genocide against a people who never threatened you? Wake up China.

Jon, Alexandria, VA

Guy , San Francisco, CA

Why boast?. You really think USA saved France from the Nazi? I thought it was the Allies and Russia who combined to fight and win the war. Please tell which war Americans fought and win on her own? The Indian war?

You know why US is the superpower today? I read in books and magazines the Americans captured German Scientists and took them to the States to build the atom bombs. It is these brains who help America to be what it is today Right?

My friend, don't you think we have deviated from the topic in hand. So do you agree that the torch relay should be allowed to run without interruptions and disruptions from unruly people? In your free world, protests are allowed and even encouraged especially when they are aimed at another country (namely China). Is it fair? Worst if the protests become chaotic and disruptive where harm and injury, if not death can occur.

Over to you Mr.Guy, 73s

100408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Oympic is hosted by China. China has right to protect the security of the torch. And Chinese guards did nothing that is bad for Olympic, but only just to contribute to the Games. Nothing is worth blaming by others.

Melissa, Beijing, China

It was invented in its modern form by the organisers of the 1936 Olympics in Berlin.

And it was planned with immense care by the Nazi leadership to project the image of the Third Reich as a modern, economically dynamic state with growing international influence.
The organiser of the 1936 Olympics, Carl Diem, wanted an event linking the modern Olympics to the ancient.

The idea chimed perfectly with the Nazi belief that classical Greece was an Aryan forerunner of the modern German Reich.

danny, Newry, n.ireland

Mind your own business. Don't look down upon other people all the time!

Jeff, Berkeley, CA, USA

The athletic Men in Blue seen in London and Paris obviously suffered somewhat from the Atlantic crossing. The TV coverage of the torch relay in San FRansisco clearly showed the Men in Blue to look caucasian and fro-American rather than Chinses. With the possible exception of a middle aged and apparently flat footed Asian man with a less than average health condition. What happened to the original Men in Blue in SF?

Hans, Falun,

So where is the photo to prove it ?
I think the person trying to extinguished the peaceful flame carrier are thugs and terrorist.
Terrorist = A person or group of people creating terror on civilian. In this case against the peaceful flame carrier(civilian).

John Hunter, Atlanta, USA

Perhaps you should import more of this well trained good looking Chinese policeman and get your crime rate down to that of China were all live in relatively peace, except those who fall into the hands of the Dalai Lamas murder clique!

mao tao, shanghai, china

America not paying traffic tolls in London and demanding we pay ours in America is far more obnoxious than a few torch bouncers.

James Kelly, Basildon,

Hitler's regime invented this relay for political purposes. China uses it today for the same reason. In regards to the "Blue Men". I say, who in our government issued visas to Chinese paramilitary units?

I DO NOT WANT CHINESE PARAMILITARY UNITS ON THE SOVERIGN SOIL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

I want to know who in our government authorized this...!

Robert, Modesto, USA, California

Free Iraq!

Atar, Los Angeles, USA

It's true that the U.S., U.K. and most other western nations have histories of imperialism and human rights abuse, and we take criticism constantly for it -- especially the U.S. On the other hand, Asian, African & Latin American r countries have their own horror show histories, but if a third world nation is criticized we're told to clean up our own problems before criticizing anyone else. Fair enough -- as long we're protected by the same rules.

The only people I can't abide on this issue are the French. But then self-centered America-bashing is France's national sport. While living there I was often informed that the American government hangs minorities from gallows on public buildings, are excluded (by policy) from attending public colleges & that we should hang our heads in shame. I was also informed that Bach and sauerkraut are French. No mention of Napoleon, Martel et cie, or Petain. Then again they don't believe we saved them from the Kaiser & Hitler.

Guy , San Francisco, CA

Yo, Adrian, why are you afraid of using your Chinese name?

Bob, Ricmond,

The Chinese "guardians" are totally unacceptable. While I agree that protesters should not physically interfere with the torch or its carrier, it is the responsibility of the host nation to provide any necessary protection. The Chinese government has absolutely no enforcement rights on the streets of America, nor should their agents engage in physical confruntation with American citizens on American soil. I can only imagine what the view of the Chinese government would be if the tables were turned. The image of a tank comes to mind.

Mike, Haslett,

oh Marcel!! your anti-americanism is so passe and so gauche...

clay , New York , NY

I really think that the torch at the moment is being taken away from the public. I think the worst protests will be in Indonesia, but I hope that things will go smooth, but knowing Indonesia I'm afraid it will not. Well All the best to the sportsmen and women.

Wafi, Bath,

You still should not attack your own citizens to get the torch is that fair to them that they get beat up for an honor of carring the torch. Don't they have rights to

CS, San Antonio,

I would like to say thanks to policy and Chinese guardians. They work hard to prevent the torch been grabbed by protestors.

Adrian, Vancouver , Canada

To Marcel in France.

Who liberated you from the Nazis?

As I recall, France tried to force it's will on the rest of Europe under Napoleon; and he was Corsican. Even spoke French with an Italian accent. lolol!

Don't you people have anything original to bring to the table?

Matthew, Springfield, USA Virginia

Purely from a security standpoint, you never EVER want to deploy "hands-on staff" to an arena where they cannot verbally communicate with potential miscreants or protestors in the likely first language of the opposition.. To do so is irresponsible as it virtually ensures violence, as each side shouts nonsense at each other (without understanding, language is but babble), followed by greater or lesser mayhem. Without effective verbal communication, security is reduced to either thugs, mimes, or roadkill.

On the more complex issue of who should provide Torch Security, I would suggest that since *no* nation owns the torch (the IOC does), that security be provided *solely* by the nation the torch is passing through. I.e., when passing through Finland, only Finnish security - or when passing through Japan, only Japanese security.

GC, Seattle, WA

Double standards will never work.
Fair is fair. China should consider let go of Tibet only after the following have taken place:
Canada let go of Quebec
France out of Corsica
Spain and France let Basque go independent
The Dutch let Aruba go
Russia let go of Chechnya
Serbia let go of (already being forced to do so) Kosovo.
Iraq and Turkey let the Kurds have its own independent state
Japan let go of Okinawa/Ryukyu islands
Denmark loosen its grip on Iceland
India, Pakistan, China figure out the Kashmir thing
Sri Lanka let the Tamils have its own piece of land
UK let go of Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Falkland Islands and other territories
USA let go of Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, Guantanamo Bay. And Texas, California, Washington State, Idaho, Arizona, Utah... since these were once part of Mexico. Hell, the 95%+ of the folks in US should just pack up and leave, thus returning the lands back to the Native Americans.
Yeah right, like this will ever happen...

Atar, Los Angeles, USA

China has Tibet, but the US has Iraq and Afghanistan, the UK has N. Ireland and Scotland, and the French have Corsica and Alsace. Apparently nobody's in a position to criticize anyone else. People should learn to keep their mouths shut and mind their own business.

allen, boston, usa

Basic-Human-Rights are universal. We should be concerned whenever and wherever those are violated on denied. We should denounce any nation but without any sense of moral, cultural or national superiority. Every nation in the world, in the name of "national unity","civilization","progress","god","freedom","security","manifest destiny","peace" or many other beautifully worded propaganda has comitted the most atrocious acts against some minorities or the whole of their own people within their borders, or used as an excuse to subjugate or interfere with another nation or region.
I know there are Chinese people that think of our American Indians, Black people, Latinos, Asian Americans or other minorities, not only when they feel their national pride being hurt, but when they see their basic H.R., and basic freedoms, being violated.
It's just they ARE NOT the ones that feel offended and shout insulting words, but denounce governments, and don't get much or unbiased mass media attention.

p, San Francisco, U.S.A.

Paramilitary training eh! Now why did'nt they select from the local womens institute.

Ed Allen, Whitby Canada,

Christophe, I guess those worst abusers in the world (the UK and the US), shouldn't have bothered to have driven those darling Germans out of the beloved city where you lived. You're welcome.

RE: the Chinese torch guards. It's clear they have no authority to man-handle any protester, police officer, or any citizen of any country wherever the torch is passing. Solution: start revoking visas.

Donald Coe, Boulder, USA, Colorado

It seems to me a bic lighter would do just as well. We in the west have a right to demonstrate and we will. Perhaps here in the USA, we should stop buying chinese goods and make our own. As far as the boys in blue, they should not be allowed in this country. If the flames go out, we use a bic.

TONY, KANSAS CITY, mo

As an Half-Chinese American studying living in United States. I can only drew the following conclusions:

1) It is not ok for the Chinese to take Action to keep the torch ignited, which is by tradition suppose not to be ever extinguished as part of the ritual tradition.

2) But it is ok for Protesters to leap out their lane to attack the torch bearer and the torch.

3) It is ok to Invade IRAQ and blast it into stone age.

4) It is not ok for a nation to defend it is over sovereignty.

5) Everything China say is lies and propganda

6) Everything western Media prints is the eternal truth.

Did I miss anything else? Or am I a "Biased CCP robot?

Michael , Boston , USA

When did China change from a place providing a venue for the Olynpics to the Guardian of the Olympic flame? So much for the Olympics not being steeped in politics! It is patently obvious that the Chinese regard the flame ceremony as a highly political event.
I agree that we never should have appeased the Chinese by choosing Beijing.

K Frey, Madison, USA

Olympics never was pure sports, since the beginning the nationalism was shown via the flags and the fact that we compete to see who is best. If it was indeed a true contest and not a commercial enterprise the constestants would face off outside of a arena or television camera.

Therefore the Olympics have always been intwined with politics. Having no interest or reqard for Olympics makes this an interesting story to read, but the real issue is that China is re-writing history and wants it both ways.

First they say the ancient ties to China is the legal basis for imment domain to take the free Chinese in Tawain. Yet the same ancient ties do not apply to Tibet.

You people are looking at the hole in the doughnut and not the doughnut itself.

Dan, Houston, Texas, USA, USA, USA

Have to agree with Bill Davis on that one, Welcome to Berlin 1936. Again, a country that shouldn’t really have been granted the right to hold the Olympic Games due to it’s appalling Human Rights and Genocide of ethnic groups has been awarded. Why? Money. There couldn’t be any other reason. Logic, morals and common sense certainly didn’t play in any shape or form in the decision making of the International Olympic Committee. Finance and future funding in the IOC lifestyle obviously did play a part. Now people are protesting to highlight the errors of the IOC, Sporting Personalities and Politicians in thinking that China is ready for hosting a global sporting event likes the Olympics. A country which edits and release its news 24 hours after it has happened is not a country ready for a global event which is about fair play and equality. A country which is committing genocide shouldn’t be allowed to hold a sporting event which is to promote different ethnic groups competing.

Antony Masters, Battersea, London, UK

Ylem: Americans think they are above all nationalities but sorry you are wrong, You've been brain washed by your government ! The world will be a better place if the people can see what America really stands for POWER and GREED !.

Marcel, Lyon, France

ylem,
Chinese folks who are ethnically Tibetans also can leave Tibet Autonomous Region and other "TARs" in the other Chinese provinces. That's why you can find "Tibetans" doing business and living in Beijing, Shanghai, and any other city/town in China. "Tibetans", Hans, and other ethnic Chinese groups can travel to anywhere they please in China as long as they are law abiding citizens. Here in USA, it's the same unless you broke the law and put on probation. Then when you go out of town, you need to inform and get approval from probation officers.

And that's so correct about the Native Americans being treated in USA. You do let them out. Actually, you force them out even if they don't want to leave the lands that they want to live at. Let's force the Injuns from the Great Plains and march them to the swamps of Florida, for example. Who cares if many died along the way from disease, hunger, cold...

Yeah, let's not compare China to USA

Atar, Los Angeles, USA

The only thugs i see are the ones on fri and sat night in my area ! I wished we had more police like those chinese, maybe then U.K. will be a safer place to live . Why judge others when we don't exactly have a clean Human rights record !

Brian, London, U.K.

Welcome to Berlin, 1936.

Bill Davis, Los Angeles, USA, California

Allen Wong: Please stop comparing what happened with the American Indians to what China is doing in Tibet. You seem to think that American Indians cannot leave the reservations, which are not "camps." Also, we are not beating up American Indians or stopping them from traveling, or killing them. You are very naive about this country and should not compare China to America.

ylem, New York, NY

i think it's rude just to call anyone a thug

Ellie, London,

I'm planning a trip to China later this year but the aggression, racism and ill-informed views on display here from posters from China is almost making me reconsider. If this is how Chinese people (and not just the government) respond to dissent and different ideas and cultures, then China has a very long way to go. I hope this changes in the future because a culture that encourages this kind of negativity and jingoism can do nothing but damage to its own people and the world at large.

Esther, London,

Hey people! We are talking about an Olympic torch here - not the President of some country who needs to be protected from a possible assassination. Why are the Chinese making such a big deal about this torch? So what if it gets extinquished -- its only a torch! Why send the goon squad to muscle people who they think are too close or who are wearing something they don't like. They are not in China and should respect the people and the country they are visiting. The Chinese people who are posting comments on this website seem very angry and naive to what goes on in other countries and are trying to justify this bad behavior of these Chinese torch guards.

dianeremarx, Missoula, MT

After reading the comments posted, its easy and transparent to see who the CCP cyber patrol propaganda robots are. If anyone finds comfort (or truth) in anything they say, they probably have a little red star on their lapel, and a CCP minder over their shoulder.

Christoher Boyce, Los Angeles, Califonia US

Chinese acting like Americans? Oh, we can't handle this sort of irony...

dilettante, Montreal, Canada

TO those who think they are the morale benchmark of the world.
Free IRAQ! How many people of IRAQ u killed,USA? How much IRAQ blood u used to drive your cars?
Free CORSICA! How many people of the island have been killed since u french colonist occupied it?
Free Northern IRELAND! UK, How many people of how many countries you've killed in your history?
You're completely brainwashed if u think you're morale God of the world

CHAW, shanghai, China

Welcome to Berlin, 1936.

Bill, Los Angeles, USA, California

Do you really think that human right activists help Tibetans? Look what happened to the American Indians last time the "white activists" thought they help them. Their land not only got invaded and acquired; even worst, its own race got exterminated - remembered the reservation camps!!! China has been and continue to protect and preserve Tibet and their culture. Thank God the Olympic torch still burning. Good thing the guardians or Chinese security runners protected the torch in London and Paris.

Allen Wong, Brooklyn, USA

The worst human abusers in the world is USA and Great Britain, the evidence speaks for it self !

Christophe, Paris, France

From what I saw it is a shame also that the brave bobbies of the Met protecting the flame smashing down individual protestors are to chicken hearted to use the same robust approach to the drunken yobs on Thursday Friday and Saturday nights. The whole event brought deep shame on the IOC, the Chinese government officials and the Met. Do the Chinese think they have a right to export their Tiananmen Square approach to protest all over the world? At least this way the whole world gets to see their true colours.

M.Elliott, Birmingham, UK

I hope that the San Francisco PD drop a hammer on these thugs if they try toi interfere with the US citizens right to protest. China has always been quick to take offense at every opportunitiy and ignor complaints of others both inside China and all over the world. THey have no respect for human rights.
It was a huge mistake to award them the 2008 Olympics. I will not be watching any of the sporting events but I may watch whatever TV coverage there is of the protests and how they are handled.

mike Clifford, Killington, VT

Why does this Olympics remind me of the 1936 Olympics...?

Ray, NYC, NY

Excuse me. Tibet became a unified independent nation in 7th century. China as a nation had not existed at this period. China spreads all the propaganda into its people through schools in China and spread posters of nationalistic lies in rural Tibetan areas. China wants to eliminate the Tibetan identity from Tibet. China claims that they are are looking out for the Tibetans like their children with their material development. But then why do they shoot and kill Tibetans. For an instance remember the Nangpa-la pass. Chinese armed guards shot and killed innocent refugees that were escaping the oppression faced in their homeland.
China lies brazenly. Those that are educated on Central Asian history and the relations that existed with regards to Tibet know that Tibet was never a part of China. Tibet was free and will not be assimilated into the Chinese nationalistic propaganda and its culture.
By reading about what the torch bearers had to say, they really are thugs.

sonam, salt lake city,

I wonder how many people are going to protest in the 2012 Olympics ? Or won't it be fashionable then !

Perry, London, U.K.

Communist thugs act like communist thugs. Liberals whine that the US and UK is worse for attacking the utopian paradises of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Communist thugs laugh and raise a toast to useful idiot liberals.

Churchill groans in his grave.

frgough, Atlanta, USA

According to Fox (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,348449,00.html), one of the Chinese guards ripped a bandana with the Tibetan flag printed on it from a torch-bearer's head when she reported for the relay, and she was surrounded by about six of them, who were telling her, "No! No!" The whole world doesn't belong to China. They have no right to touch any of the torch-bearers outside China. In the US, it's called "assault." These highly-trained bullies aren't there to protect the torch-bearer or the torch; they're there to protect China's fabricated image. Someone in a position of authority needs to have the backbone to stand up to these punks so as to spare them losing face by having to go home with that torch lodged firmly where even the Tibetan sun never shines.

Tiffany, St. Louis, USA

I just want to ask a question: When Anerican Prezident goes to other courntries, are there any real American police men around him? In some sense, Olympic torch is more important than Anerican Prezident, because it belongs to the whole word, not only to those people who know nothing about Chinsese history.

Poor naive people! Sounds like they really know the truth.

Can, Syracuse, NY

LOL, the paranoia over these so-called guardians of the torch is so funny.

Surely, the reason for their presence was that the torch was in danger of being snuffed out or snatched, both attempts, we saw happened.

Perhaps Westerners expected to see the stereo-typical small Chinese that they could be pushed around but were shocked to see that Chinese people could be as big and as tough as them.

H, Aberdeen,

" "This is the TRUTH that Billion of us believe!"

And with that, the whole brainwashing of Chinese citizens is put into context.

Tim O'T., London, "

Those being brainwashed are generally unaware being brainwashed.

Do you know if you/we are not being brainwashed ?

If we are talking about right and wrong, financial gains, advancements in all fields, and prosperity are no indicator of being always right.

sian, London,

I just want to ask a question: When American President goes to other courntries, are there any real American police men around him? In some sense, Olympic torch is more important than American President, because it belongs to the whole word, not only to those people who know nothing about Chinsese history.

Poor naive people! Sounds like they really know the truth.

Can, Syracuse, NY

The Chinese flame guards should protect the flame, while they did turn off the flame on Olympic torch several times by themselves for trying to reduce the tension. Calling them as "thugs" is of course unfair.

Leung, Hong Kong, China

you people should pay more attention on you business. we all need that all people love peace,not tear down a good country.we should respect China’s blue-clad flame attendants. we should respect the Olympic game in Beijing.WE SHOULD RESPECT CHINA.

ADAM , Xi'an , CHINA

When the crazy guy jumped runner and tried to take over the torch, he gave the prove that the guard were absolutely necessary. Coe said:" They did not speak English. I think they are thugs". So much for his idea of freedom and liberty.
The fast development of Chinese economy and the label of Communist country has probably brought a lot of uncomfortable feeling among many people. Especially with that communist label, it gives many people the reason to do and say against China for whatever purpose. As a matter of fact, the people in China are having a better life and the society is also politically more open. Same for Tibet. Why should the monks rule Tibet? If they are true monks, then they should live their religious life instead of getting into politics.
China is a big country. As all of the other countries, China has the right to defend itself and maintain the order. Yes several Tibetans died in the riot. But who started it? Why those Han Chinese women were burned to death?

XZ, FL, USA

if every athlete in the world refused to go to the games in one week the tibetan crisis would be over because of financial influence. However ALL goverments refuse to do this because they want to sell arms, aeroplanes etc to china; Whjere has the spirit of ther games gone. God help us all.

pradelles, freney, france

To those questioning what will happen in 2012 when the Olympic flame arrives in London, remember that regular protests take place over most contentious issues of the day in Western countries, including a near permanent one against the Iraq war in front of Parliament itself. There is serious opposition to what the U.S. and Britain are doing in Iraq, including criticism from countries like France. China cannot just partake in the celebratory moments of humankind's journey, it should realize that it has huge responsibilities too on the world stage.

T. Varadaraj, Bangalore, India

"This is the TRUTH that Billion of us believe!"

And with that, the whole brainwashing of Chinese citizens is put into context.

Tim O'T., London,

having seen a number of the incidences along the london route, whilst the blue men were physical they were only stopping people attacking the flame and carrier- their job. fair play to them- and just because they are elite forces they are deemed as thugs-they acted with self contol and ability

doing a good job

john, london, uk

i d like to say
that there are 1.3 billion chinese people
do you think you are know china better than chinese.
all chinese students study english in school.
we can read english news with the help of dictionary. by the way ,oxford dictionar is the most popular,but i think collins or longman are better than oxford

liming, beijing, china

As a Brit, I am appalled at the hypocrisy here: We have both directly, and indirectly via support of the US, tortured, maimed and murdered tens of thousands of Afghanistan and Iraqi civilians during the last few years. So how can we complain to China about human rights violations in Tibet when we are one of the world's worst abusers ourselves.

Nick Walsh, Bristol, UK

barking orders like ‘run’ and ‘stop’ =

I have crowd control experience, the only true answer to this is that someone had to give orders for a parade of this sort to take place. In the same way there is a manager in a theatre or a ring master in a circus. or a parade master at Disney resorts.

It was correct for Asian people to be seen protecting the torch and in control of it

I do agree with the protestors in there protests about freeing Tibet.

This is Tibets moment, give them Freedom

Nicholas Iles, Oswestry, Shropshire

what a non-story. when we were providing security for the olympic flame, did we ask for volunteers from the w.i. or did we ask the police? what exactly do you expect?

of course, the question of whether the olympic flame is worth protecting or whether the games should have gone to china is worth asking. and most people probably agree with the protests (on content, if not always form).

but really.... security carried out by elite security personnel? what will your next shock unmasking involve, I wonder?

jem, london, uk

Krista Texas,
We in the UK HAVE protested about the occupation of Iraq. Our press keep a toll of deaths and there are regularly calls for the army to begin to withdraw. 2012 probably will provoke other countries to protest and voice their discuss over the continuing occupation, and we will support this. Neither the UK or the US intends to stay in Iraq forever, and are currently (no matter how poorly) trying to implement stability so we can leave.
China on the other hand believes that Tibet is part of China and has no right to independance and does not recognise the rights of anyone to protest otherwise.
Incedently I doubt we will send any 'Flame Guardians' due to various health & safety reasons. Plus we wouldn't want to be seen to insult another countries ability to protect the flame! We have too much colonial guilt to want to be seen to be acting superior...

AK, Pig Hill , UK

Albanman: Tibet has always been a part of China, since the ancient times. It was not a part of China when the Englanders occupied it. The Englanders burned the Winter Gardens in Beijing and stealed gold from the Vorbidden City. The Englanders killed our Chinese people. Chinese people will not forget this history. You know what? This time is now over. You can forget about Tibet referendum and the sort of rubbish. You should also remember, China cannot be defeated by the thrugs in Britain.

YYP, Cologne,

Tibet has NOT been part of China from ancient times, but was - until Chinese invasion - an independent country. It is very sad that protestors feel they need to disrupt the Olympic torch but the world governments have been too interested in Chinese business to pay attention to Tibet. Now it is good that people are paying some attention to what is happening in that occupied country; sadly, it will not last and greed for business and profit will defeat the desire for justice.

If the Chinese government is so sure that Tibetans want to be part of China, then it should prove this by allowing a free and impartial referendum of the Tibetan people. If the Tibetans vote "yes" then the rest of the world will be quiet. If the Tibetans vote "No" then the Chinese should leave immediately. But the Chinese government is not brave enough to allow the Tibetan people to vote, because it knows what the answer will be. Blessings on the people of China!!!Shame on the Chinese government!!!!

Albanman, Edinburgh, Scotland

It takes thuggery against a peer of the realm like Lord Coe before people start realising what the Gordon Brown government is doing. The people who permitted this are the "usual suspects" within government, London local government and the Met. Police.

Peter Hargreaves, Stockport, Cheshire, England

Lord Coe pushed and shoved, what an outrage. His Supreme Highness the Lord Coe would be more at home in China where he would be safe from ever being touched by the masses. I suspect he will be getting his snout in the trough along with all the other VIPs at the Bejing Games.

bert, braddinistan,

All these China bashing is very reminiscent of Japan bashing in the 80s where it was perceived as an economy threat. The Western to the Chinese is biased and two-faced, while criticizing China for its treatment of Tibetans, the UK and US troops are occupying Iraq and Afgansitan. The one-sided biased reporting only serve to arouse the anti-Western hostilities amongst the ordinary Chinese who perceive all these petty protests are anti-China policty staged by Western countries.

Jimmy Hancock, Birmingham, UK

It's 1936 all over again. Instead of blue eyed blond thugs we have these blue and gold outfitted goons. And there is more to come. Aryan supremacy has come and gone; now dawns the domination of the Han.

kishore, Galena, USA

So what is different with the US Secret Service who are armed and protect the US President when he visited the UK?

Faced with an attack would they hold back and refrain from responding and even shooting if necessary.

Chris, Ashford, Middx, UK

Well hang on. Who was running this event? Someone approved the inclusion of these suffocating nutters, did Seb Coe not know they were going to be there then? Who from the British side gave them permission to enter the country, who condoned the way they behaved (someone would have known that they would create this formation around the flame/runner, someone gave them the OK).

Who is in charge of all this? It was a complete shambles. All I saw was a thing that looked like something from Ann Summers being held by a variety of people, surrounded within cms by robotic Chinese maniacs, who themselves were surrounded by policemen and women in flourescent jackets and cycling helmets without bikes, who themselves were surrounded by police in black uniforms.

All police and bodyguards and no ceremony whatsoever.

Laura Roberts, London, London

If I were to commit fraud, then the full weight of the law would be thrown against me. Unless of course I worked for the BBC, GMTV...etc(phone in fraud), or BAE in defence procurement (Saudia Arabia)...etc.

Again if I were to assault someone on the streets of London, I'd expect my collar to be felt by the Police and in court facing a charge of either ABH or GBH. Unless of course I just happened to work for the Chinese State, no danger there then.

The aforementioned are just two examples in a now long list of what is known as "one rule for us and another for them" so to speak. Under Labour, this is exactly what we as citizens of this supposed country have grown to realise. Sunday was yet another example of something quite dire in this country.

How can we sue one person for assault, when we endorse anothers actions on the same subject! How can we lock up individuals for fraud, when we embrace those who've done excactly the same!

Our laws and system of governance are wrong!

David Downes, Chester, UK

If the British were to host the Olympics, and if there were protesters attempting to put out the Olympic torch, the UK government would do the same thing. So what if the Chinese government sends "the cream of the paramilitary force" to protect the torch? Wouldn't anyone else hosting the event, given the circumstances, have done the same thing?

Shame on those who try to mix politics with sports,; shame on those who try to put out the olympic torch. If you don't have a problem with Beijing hosting the Olympics - don't go. Boycott it. And if you choose to participate, stop trying to put out the Olympic torch then put the blame on the Chinese - calling them 'thugs" - for trying to protect the flame.

Who are the "thugs" again, may I ask? Those who participate but make the experience so miserable for everyone else, or those who try their best to host the games despite it all?

Charles, London, UK

Ahh the poor little protesters can`t mess with the torch safely now! If you really want to protest about something then go to the source. If you don`t like China, then go demonstrate in China. If you truly believe in what you are protesting then the risk is worth the reward.

patrick , evansville, united states

Chinese enforcers loose in London? Our police pushed out of the way? Our people manhandles by these ‘guardians of the flame’? What game are they playing?

In a country which is pushed through laws to record every child and its family life, which still tries to insist that we are all pinned down by identity cards, which ‘loses’ ‘data protected’ information about us, is it any surprise that foreign nationals should be given such rights to push us about?

In a country which has both laws and a court system which works only for its own financial interest – and which loses any protestor until he is stripped of rights and finances, where are we being led?

It’s time to wake up. This is not the ‘democracy’ we were trained to think it was.

Where is the ‘sport’ in these Olympics? Is it in seeing how many people’s lives are lost? Is the betting good?

Charlotte Peters Rock, Knutsford, England Land-of-the-free?

In France they irritated the French police, the crowd, and failure comes partly from there.

Laura, Paris, FRANCE

I agree fully with Bob, durham; I too watched the whole coverage on BBC24, not once the Chinese torch guards tackled any protesters.

They initially jogged along both sides the torch bearers, on some 'safer' streets they did the same.

They were forced to protect the torch held by KHuq at Ladbroke grove, holding KHUq's hand and the torch. The UK police in yellow and bike helmet wrestled down the protester in this instance and in all incidents later.

In fact, these Chinese torch guards ALWAYS moved seemingly inside an invisible circle WITHIN and AROUND the bearer and the torch, and act with commendable great restraintS in a foreign city in the face of (occasionally?) unknown possible threats.

If all, they seem to TRUST the UK police force encircling them TOTALLY, their sole focus to keep safe the bearer and the torch, defending them from jostling at times (re Lord Coe?).

For World Olympics harmonious spirit's sake, I salute the UK police and the Chinese torch guards !!!

sian, London,

I am from China, you have many video tapes of the relay in your country, and show it to the world to prove this. Maybe you can think this way: the guards from China have many London police around them, if nobody break in, how can they do anything? Thank you and think about it.

Hector, Beijing, China

what a non-story. when we were providing security for the olympic flame, did we ask for volunteers from the w.i. or did we ask the police? what exactly do you expect?

of course, the question of whether the olympic flame is worth protecting or whether the games should have gone to china is worth asking. and most people probably agree with the protests (on content, if not always form).

but really.... security carried out by elite security personnel? what will your next shock unmasking involve, I wonder?

jem, london, uk

Mr. Coe would come to Beijing without any flame attendants when the 2012 London Olympic torch marshaled there. There must be not any horrible thugs if he could speak Chinese.
Ha!

Donglaoxie , HY, China

Chinese martial arts trained elite paramilitary forces, wow!. The fact is that those guys, the Chinese, are the worlds toughest people. Secondly, I'd rate the UK special forces and third the U.S special forces. Shouldn't we be glad to have had them to protect the flame?

jayil, london, uk

If people could seperate sport and politics and not act like idiots trying to disrupt the flame, then the Chinese police wouldn't have had to take any action, what do people expect, that they just stand aside? The problems were caused by the protestors and no amount of reporting otherwise can change that fact.

Harry, Dublin, REp of Ireland

Funny !!!
Some people seem to be annoyed when several torch protectors present WITH permission.
And they ignore our feeling when our internal issue is intervened harshly WITHOUT permission.

Chinese are embracing the world with our passion to host the OG. We are smiling today, but stand upon ourselves when agaist the riot voilence sparked by separatism.

TIBET is part of CHINA and is improved remarkedly.
This is the TRUTH that Billion of us believe!

Best wish to the OG, Best wish to our better world.
Welcome to Beijing. let's enjoy the GAME...

chan, from Sendai, Japan

How about letting a country that started an illegal war which has killed over 200,000 innocent civilians at the last count host the Olympics in 2012?

Think there will be any protests about that?

dominic, Teddington, Middlesex, UK

The Chinese will be the next great threat to World peace as they grab whatever raw materials and food they can't buy. Their blue tracksuited officials were heavy handed and it is right to clal them thugs.
What the Hell was Gordon 'Blobby' Brown thinking when he let them into the Country. I am a British Citizen I demand to know why Chinese Security Police were allowed to comit public order offences in London on the public, athletes, a politician (Lord Coe) and the Police.
Shame on You Brown for trying to get good publicity pictures at any price.

Riley, Kiev, Ukraine

Why should China not have the opportunity to host the
Olympics and thus help to protect the flame? People scream human rights abuses and Free Tibet but such attitudes would thus eliminate most Western Countries from being able to host the games as well (been mentioned but think Iraq or Western countries using cheap labor in China to produce goods in order to meet western demand).
Whilst I see the torch relay as an opportunity to highlight humanitarian issues I do not agree with the Olympics being hijacked by political agendas and I find it unfortunate China felt the need to protect the Olympic flame from violent protestors determined to hijack what should be a celebratory event.
The rantings of so many archaic views on such forums as this astounds me. I also find this article to be biased and one-sided, calling these people as thugs without evidence. It merely highlights they attended a police academy, are 'elite' and thus labels them paramilitary - a term with poor connotations here

MB, London/Sydney, UK/Australia

Really its time to get rid of the olympic games altogether, it bears no resemblance to its original ideal.

Mullarkian, York, England

It doesn't matter whether the people protecting the Olympic flame are Chinese para-military police, London bobbies or Parisian gendarmes. What matters is that ordinary people have had an opportunity to express an opinion about the murderous thugs who run China and they have expressed those opinions most eloquently. Good!

For evil to triumph it merely requires that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.

Mike Wilkes, Brisbane, Queensland

I would like to respond to Wang Anxiang of Jinan Shandong, PR China. Wang, you have nothing to worry about your English. You can write better than many British youngsters can.

However, the contents of your text are completely wrong. The pro-Tibet activists are not assigned by the governments of U.K. or U.S.A. Just to enlighten you, U.K. and U.S.A. are free countries. The governments cannot stop anyone from protesting about anything nor can they assign someone to protest about a particular thing. All the protests were a result of individual feelings.

Vinay Mehra, Purley, Surrey

What will happen the torch relay in 2012? What kind of protest will they have to face? Who can guess it ?

llz71813, Sydney , Austrialia

What a strange article why are we critical of these young men for doing their job, and anyway watching the pictures they acted with restraint compared with the flying shoulder charges our police were shown doing.

We are whipping up a media frenzy of negativity towards China that will hurt us in the long run economically and politically and we will hurt the many moderate faces of the communist regime within China.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and lets face it we in the west have a lot of sins to deal with before we get to China's.

Tony, Aberdeen, uk

Mike, I too have spent time in China, and people here do not understand the Chinese viewpoint on Tibet, and likely they wouldn't, unless they bothered to visit the country for more than a two week holiday. I wonder if Londoners will mind when the Chinese protest the 2012 games-- based on the UK's (and USA's)arguably illegal presence in Iraq--a country that did nothing to either of them--but a country in which UK citizens are now part of a brutal occupation that is arguably worse than the humanitarian crisis in Tibet. People who care about Tibet should let the Tibetans and the Chinese work it out. It's not your country, it's not your land, and you need to fix your own problems here before you decide to play hero in Tibet. Worse, you've got blood on your hands from your own human rights violations in Iraq, and you've lost your moral authority. Upset the torch run in protest of your own countries deeds before pointing fingers.

Krista, Austin, Texas

the chinese men-in-blue are the eastern equivalent of the secret service that protects the american president. should anyone attempt to do a miss huq on the american president, i'm sure the secret service would have manhandled him too. and their reaction to the fire extinguisher incident would be to draw their weapons, in full view of the british public and the watching world.
would the western public/press complain or make noise about it? no.
why the double-standards (and racism)? if the westerners do it, it's ok. if the chinese do it, it's not ok.

gary, london,

An interesting clash of cultures to say the least...

Todd, Sacramento, CA

Cynthia Lee: When "the West" will have some 60+ million dead the way Chinese government has, come back and we can have a discussion.
Seeing the Chinese officials squirm is very satisfying. Olympics hosted by oriental despotism "made in China" is a a sick joke by the IOC and disgrace to the whole idea of Olympics, the same way Berlin 1936 and Moscow 1980 had been. Chinese seriously have no clue how to react in situations where things aren't completely under their control.
As far as Chinese military being given a free reign in a city governed by Comrade Livingstone.... anyone surprised?

Petr Tilser, Hradec Kralove, Czech Republic

All I can say is that I'm glad the Olympic torch is not coming to my country. I dislike the whole thing, like many other people. This praetorian guard for the torch is just so symbolic. I didn't know who they were when I saw them on the TV, but this article confirms my presentiment.
Nationalism is very dangerous, and if you combine it with a dictatorship it's ever worse. The comparison with Berlin 1936 is somehow accurate. I don't really understand how they could give the olympics to such government.
Chinese people is so nationalistic (I guess they do a good job about it from the school time) that they interpret this kind of comments as an offense, when they are just a criticism.

Santi, Burgos, Spain

Brought their own thugs this time! Probably aware our police force have learned their lesson about acquiesing with China's demands and that the British public will not put up with it.

Keith Lawson, Poole, UK

As i suspected these are chinese militia; the same that keep the Tibetans in place. How did our goverment and police allow that to happen.
Having said that it was our Police that used strong arm methods, just like they always do.

Bob, Warrington, Cheshire

How British people chose Sebastian Coe as the chairman of the London Olympic Organization Committee? a guy who seems not having basic judgement...shame!

Andrew Lu, Sydney, Australia

wilfred knight..find your comments gormless to say the least...and while we're at it, what's happening to the double standards surrounding Tibet. Are the Americans going to boycott these Olympics like they did when Russia invaded Afghanistan..NO..and do you know why...Market forces mate....You have too much to lose .

kirk, Rotherham, UK

Good reporting. I was watching those guys as they accompanied the flame in London and thought "What's up with them?" They should not be allowed in close contact with the flame carriers or act in any way as security. They should stay on the bus. Who is running the show?!! With this news out, the picture just got worse because the protesters against the Tibet issue are being fended off by the very force that serves as Chinese enforcers in Tibet. I do not think that Chinese protectors should be public face of the flame around the world! It really makes one wonder who checks all of these things out. Did you also see one of them pushing another out of the way on Downing Street and trying to orchestrate the picture taking?

Graham, St. John's, The Republic of Newfoundland

This all demonstrates that, despite China's economic ascent in recent years, it remains a very backward country in terms of attitudes. It's just a shame that the Olympic games were ever awarded to the Chinese in the first place. Presumably the reason was to related to trade and economics, a sweetener if you will. Had China been situated in another part of the world, and without it's trade links, President Bush may even have considered regime change!!!!

John Dixon, London, UK

Time to get rid of the olympic committee they are nothing but power hungry leaches looking to fill there pockets with chinese favours the games are about sport not military police running to torch just a taste of the chinese century,well the west fed them soon the hungry beast will want the world !

tony, melbourne, australia

I lived in China for 4 years and recently got back to the US. All I can say is that I cant wait to get back to China ASAP. This country and the west in general disgusts me more with each passing day. And no, I am not Chinese at all... I also have much that I complain about in regards to China, however the hicks over here in the west would barely understand it if I spent the next 4 years trying to explain it all.

Mike, Los Angeles, CA

Bob from Durham is right when he says that the greater violence was prepetrated by men in yellow jackets and cycle crash helmets. They charged protesters, knocking them flying and pinning them to the ground. I didn't see such tactics employed by the men in blue and white.
It appears that people saw what they wanted to see or were told had happened by hose with an axe to grind.

Jon , Hornchurch, UK

It's amazing how these Chinese people think it's OK to brutalise others, as this is kind of "internal" issue. Hey, stop killing people first. Olympics is about being fair, and you should have not appied for hosting the games because you do not understand what fair means.

Jame K, Hawthorn, Victoria

I did not even read this article, other than the headline ..
And just WHY would they Chinese government not put somebody on this detail that could defend it? Does not EVERY country do the same thing, whether it be a historical or national pride thing .. Would I send t he US constitution to anyplace without adequate surveillance or protectect. COME on.

W F Richardson, Scobey, MT

As what happened in UK and France, there were many pro-Tibet activists assigned by US and UK governments not only in London and Paris but everywhere trying to snatch the torch there anytime. So we have to guard the torch by some particular even aggressive methods in case of US or UK gavernments' snatching.
London will be the host of Olympic Games 4 years later. You will copy what you'd seen. Even crueler.
My English is poor. I hope you can understand

Wang Anxiang, Jinan Shandong, PR China

What most people fail to realize is that protests will change absolutely nothing about the Tibet situation in China.
If anything, it further highlights the ignorance of many who think they can “make the world a better place” with their ideals.

I’m surprised that many have already forgotten about the lessons learnt in recent history, when trying to get involved with other people’s affairs and forcing your ideals onto other countries. Yes, thanks to you, we now live in a world full of fear, animosity and deepening divisions that are only going to get worse before they get better.

Before you’ve even managed to clean up the mess you’ve made, you’re now jumping onto the newest bandwagon “free Tibet”, which many people have suddenly taken upon themselves, because it’s the popular – just like the “free Iraq” or the “free Afghanistan” use to be, which before I forget, must say was a resounding success on your part.

How about we just concentrate about the sport this time round?

Michael L, HK,

Tibet is a part of China from ancient time, Tibet issue is Chinese business, which can be solved by Chinese. We Chinese hope all people in the world who love peace don't support any violence

peace, Chongqing, China

The parallel between the 1936 Berlin Olympics and the 2008 Beijing Olympics is stark.
Each totalitarian state hi-jacks the sporting festival and tries to turn it into propaganda to present itself in a favourable light, and each in turn achieves the precise opposite.

Jonathan Wilton, Singapore,

I just got back from the trip to Sichuan Provice, neghboring region to Tibet. Having talking to the ordinary people in the region, I have to say the news report about what's happening in Tibet have made the ordinary Chinese people (you are talking about 1.2 billion) really angry. What I saw and heard there was in the protest in Tibet was violance against Han Chinese by the Tibetans. They burned stores and killed some Han Chinese. However, the BBC and CNN all reported it was the crackdown of the Tibetan people. This was the firt time I saw the biggest mis-report of all time.

As an American, we allow free speech. But as news organizations like CNN, they lost all the credibility among the ordinary Chinese people. I talked to over 50 people on the street in China and EVERYBODY was angry with biased report by CNN. They said CNN has become in China a simbol of "double standards". The most popular slang now in China is: "dont be like CNN".

I hope CNN realize what they did to themselves.

Nickolas, west palm beach, usa

How does it feel to have communist soldiers jogging around London?
How discraceful! I do not care if they pushed or hurt anyone, just the thought of letting them into your country...
Do you have any control of your country?
Get this, the communist are the enemy, They have missiles aimed at you....they want to make you live like them...slavery, no freedoms and the biggest hypocrites the world has ever seen. Mao, Che, and Lenin are rolling over in their graves to see what the biggest most populas communist country is doing becoming capitalist ...just to make money. I feel bad for the majority of the Chinese folks that have not control voer their lives. Their government is foul! How many Chinese migrat back to China once they leave? None and why is that?

Richard, Davis, California

Shawn, Oxford, UK

You are out of touch. Many countries acknowledged and confirmed that Tibet is a part of China. This was so, it is so and will be so.

I disagree with you absolutely. The most humanitarian disaster in the 21st century is in Iraq, not Tibet.

The greatest threat in the world today is definitely not China. I think the West and you should know. Do you really think you are saving the Iraqis from a dictator? Please let the world know where the world only superpower is going to lead Iraq to? How many more innocent American and Iraqi lives have to be lost before you accept this tragic fact.

Have I answered you, sir or do you need more.

090408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

I'm tired of hearing people saying how the West is so hated. I don't think its hate, its envy. If it weren't for the West, modern civilization would not exist. Look at the advances in modern medicine, technology, science, and industry. All this stuff eventually gets used by these repressive, dictatorship, and communist countries. Hopefully, one day people in those countries will see the light and would want to free like we so much enjoy in the West. If were hated so much why is it that people from all over the world keep trying to come to the West to live? It must be because we are so great! God, I love the United States! IYAAYAS!

Chris, Indianapolis, Indiana

If you see the picture of a real "thug" who attacked and tried to rob the torch from a disabled Chinese female torchbearer on a wheelchair in Paris yesterday you wouldn't ask why these torchbearers need to be protected. and unfortunately the French police seems not doing a good job.

Sam, Beijing, China

It is very simple in my eyes:

You are just unhappy with the fact that China will be the host of 2008 Olympics. So you will try your best to "create" any possible reason to attack China. But rememble that:

Chinese people (all over the world) support a successful Olympic in Beijing.

The medias as BBC, CNN and the Times become jokes now for their "show" in Tibet riot. The most popular word now in China is:

Don't be like CNN. (it means every one can not be shameless as CNN)

Jim, Tallahassee, FL,USA

Too bad I'm Canadian and my government is too critical of the Chinese regime, so they spared us on the torch route.

Would have been nice to do a bit of sparring with those "thugs".

Read on AP some French athletes in Paris, who happened to be martial arts experts, defended one of the torch bearers who was being molested by the Men in Blue, because she wanted to wear a Tibet headband.

Hats off to Australian Prime Minister who said they won't be allowed to do their their in the Land Down Under.

Fangzhou, Verdun, Canada

flame attendants who can't speak english must be thugs? if an english come to China and he or she can't speak Chinese, should we accuse him or her thug???

victor, qd,

Some people forget their history. I dont need to visit China. My father did in WW 2 flying out of Yunnanyi and Kunming among others. If it were not for the Americans and British fighting in WW 2 in the China Burma India Theatre the Chinese would be part of Japan or Russia now. The Chicoms should never been allowed to place its military on the soil of any free nation.

Russ B, Va Beach VA , USA

I don't know why the Westerners are so unfair to China. What have the Westerners done? They are robbers and killers in Iraq, Afghanistan! The problem in Tibet is a matter of the sovereignty, nothing do with freedom of religion or speech. The riots in Tibet killed and robbed. They should absolutely be suppressed.
To : R. New York, USA - your country is the largest weapon maker in the world = the biggest killer.

Cynthia Lee, Hong Kong, China

guys, this is just a very anti chinese piece of news???? I dont see a problem for china to send someone to protect the torch? Like they r selected way before the event... its not like to send 30 ppl to beat up the WEST citizns.. GET OVER IT...

Tom, Sydney,

Thanks, I totally agree with you.

What made some of the Westerners think their regime is superior, their society is more civilsed?

Take a look at Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia... Thanks to 'civilsed' West!

Frances , Brisbane, Australia

Chinese were torching Tibetans and funding Burmease Militia, supplied missile technology to North Korea and Nuclear technology to Pakistan, Iran and Libya [Chinese Centrifuge designs were handed over by Libya to IAEC] and now want respect from the world. No way it can happen as Tibetans and their supporters have right to expose them with their dirty designs in the world.

Go Tibet Go!

R, New York, USA

What is with the fanny packs? Are these goons armed? It looks like they have pistols in those little packs. What are the French, British, and American laws regarding armed foreign agents beating up their citizens. It is bad enough when our own police beat people exercising free speech, but agents from a fascist, totalitarian state beating us we should beat them back!

Michael Williams, Los Angeles, the former USA

The whole episode has become a comedy. So the Chinese have deployed 30 James Bond types to keep the torch alight? What would you have them do - send 30 overweight, unfit, couch potatoes who have to pause for breath every 10 metres? Sebastian Coe becomes uptight when these guys are not suitably deferential because they have not been told that he is someone special - a Lord, no less. Scotland Yard's response is just hilarious: "They were here because they came as a part of the package." Shipped over, no doubt, in a container along with a thousand DVD players. Lo and behold, the beggars also have the effrontery not to speak fluent English, or French, or any other "civilized" language. Shock, horror! Well, when it's our turn in 2012, who shall we be sending to protect the "spirit of the Olympics"? Dad's Army and a box of matches?

Dwight Vandryver, Scholar Green, Cheshire, UK

A fitting protest would be to wear a white shirt, dark slacks, and carry two shopping bags, to then stand in fron t of the relay team as did the student who stopped the tanks at T-square those many years ago. Where is he today? Never seen was he again after security forces grabbed him?

Jim , Lodi, ca

To see is to believe, how many guys making comments here really saw what happened on the scene? Most of them just grab a story be told and start using their imagination speaking loud.

How many of you have ever landed your feet on China and seen around? How much do you know about Chinese history and culture? How many Chinese people died during invasion by western countries in the history, do you know?

Or do you know how much money western companies made on those cheap goods which you are using? You might know firms like IBM and DELL have set factories in China, but do you know bunch of western financial companies indeed control lots of Chinese major cooperations’ equities, and take majority of the profits?

Western countries squeeze thousands tons of money from Chinese worker and on the other hand blaming China on human rights. How ironic!!!

Patrick, Sydney, Australia

Their prupose is to protect the flame. What did you expect them to do?

If they do nothing just watch the protestors extinguish the fire, you would laugh. If they push the violent protestor away, you would criticise.

sharon, ottawa, canada

One can only imagine what these people get up to in their own country under the protection of the authorities. If they can attack people in London with absolutely no right to do so! My real question is why on earth is everyone just kowtowing to China? Has everyone turned into the little cronies of China? Expecting some crumbs to be thrown at them from their 11percent economy? It is sick if you ask me.

John Morgan, Old Stratford, United Kingdom

"Ancient civilization they may claim, but the concept of individual liberty , championed by the Anglo-Saxon, has yet to be found in the Chinese mind. So, yes let the Chinese celebrate this epoch when 2/3 of their population leave subsistence agriculture behind after 10,000 years and become townfolk. It is a real step forward, dramatic for the human race. " Proudly by wilfred knight of orange county, usa/california

These points illustrated above are the reasons the rest of the world hates the West. Wilfred, since when did the Anglo-Saxon values become so superior that it transcends everyone including China? Since when did the West make up only the world? When the West realise that there are 6 billion people who as are important, then the world might be better. By the way, the concept of individual liberty championed by Saxons is just a romantic view. To outsiders, Wars, divide and conquer, Opium Wars, resource theft, colonisation, economic sanctions is more akin to the West not China

Don, Osaka, Japan

It is a national disgrace that flown-in thugs from China have been allowed to manhandle protesting British citizens on British streets. There is no freedom of expression permitted in China, and the weakness of the London authorities has clearly allowed China to intruduce such totalitarian regime methods in London. Did they have work visas for their strongarm employment in Britain?
China does whatever it can get away with. In Tibet, it gets away with a lot. And now even this torch relay has been badly mis-handled by the insensitive Chinese Communist officials.

Susan Wong, London,

In my opinion a country who would, out of fear and/or greed, invade an internationally-acknowledged sovereign country and cause the biggest humanitarian disaster in the 21 century is a true totalitarian regime and a threat to world peace

Shawn, Oxford, UK

hello Shawn :

are you talking about the US and UK?

Lee, Bath, Somerset

Lily, Leeds
Lord Coe is a multiple olympic gold medalist, a former MP and the Chairman of the British Olympic committee 2012. You would think the Chinese officials ( and unofficials ) would do their homework and not assault a senior figure who had presumably played some part in arranging for their visit.
Also could we please not start calling people racist. It really is pathetic. Coe merely pointed out that they did not speak english. Is it racist if I say you don't speak mandarin? The point he was making was he was making was that they shouldn't have been present in an english speaking country on official business which was to be volatile if they couldn't communicate. Not only does this episode reflect badly on the chinese but also on Brown who has made yet another huge misjudgement.

Edward, London,

it's right to have people offering protect, to the flame & to those torchbearers, China is the host of OP, it can be & should be part of that protection, why not

Clair, HongKong, China

thugs.

not Olympic material.

not athletes.

thugs.

D. Fraser, McCall, IDaho

The torch is the property of the IOC. Why the hell are the Chinese claiming as their own and protecting it with paramilitaries (which in a sinlge-party-state means they are POLITICAL paramilitaries).

In my view the olympics and politics should not mix. Which is precisely why this torch-parade should be scrapped asap. It has nothing to do with sporting values, nothing to do with peace and everything to do with political propaganda.

People seem to thing that this torch parada has been around since the Greeks. Its not. It was brought in 1936 by the Nazis specifically to act as political propaganda. It has never had anything to do with sporting values. Scrap the torch and you scrap most of the politics in the olympics.

Dave L, Epsom, UK

Watching from afar ( New Zealand ) you could spot a mile away these track suited minders had only one thing to do and that was to make sure that nothing happen to the flame regardless of who ever got in the way !

You will see a lot more of these security people at the Beijing Games mark my words.

Jess, Tauranga, New Zealand

The Chinese security dudes are Jet-Li type Kungfu masters, I think. Lucky they were obviously ordered to only provide passive protection of the touch. Otherwise, I doubt any “peaceful” protestors could be go as near as 5 yards towards the flame.

Plus, if you take a careful look, they actually SAVED the touch from the thug who nearly succeeded grapping it from Connie Huq – this is the exact point why they were there, nothing more and nothing less.

E. Wong, Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Next time when Lord Coe go to China, chinese people would call him thug, because he can not speak chinese.

sharon, ottawa, canada

Photographic evidence? When it comes to Chinese thuggery, you don't need evidence, you can just make it up on the fly as always.

keith, HK,

Well,as I know,those Chinese guys are very polite.

Gary, London,

Chinese military-police have no business operating in Britain. They should not have been allowed here. Imagine the uproar in China if some our coppers had pushed the Chinese equivalent of Lord Coe out of the way. I personally think the Tibet business is a bit daft. Who elected the Dalai Lama? I find it strange how many lefties are making such a fuss about all this; I thought they liked democracy. Perhaps not. Castro? Arrafat? Tibet has been, on and off, a part of China for rather a long time, and the attacks on Han Chinese were examples of racism. The left would not condone such attacks on ethnic minorities in this country, so, again, why is it fine in Tibet? That said, it's the job of our police to stop any 'free-Tibet' hippies from getting out of hand in Britain. And as regards any rubbish from the Chinese party youth about how we haven't respected Chinese sovereignty, well, fine, I'd be more than happy to discuss that.

Tony Hillbear, London, UK

For the voices in this claiming that sports and politics should not mix: It's a bit like claiming that we live in the (politically) post-ideological society. Sports isn't politics but its certainly used as such. And right now it seems to be actually nothing more than politics no matter if (sports) people want it or not.

The olympic games have been commericialised the last years involving more and more professional athletes. Anyone who have attended either as athlete or spectator are familiar with the commercial immanense transforming much of the spirit of these once "political free" sports-"games". Now it is difficult to see past the enormeous economical interests for sponsors and hosts, the simutaneous product launches and the widespread doping usage in every discipline.

Perhaps its a pity that the games should be hijacked for the cause of the much tried Tibetians, but inversely should we completely let a sporting event take away all in the larger perspective?

R.T. Hansen, Berlin, Germany

Well what were we supposed to do? let those protesting thugs put out the flame/ Not on their watch it seems. well done to our boys in blue

David, Weymouth, Dorset

Everyone remembers the 1968 Black Power salutes on the medal platform at the 1968 Olympics. The Beijing Olympics call for a similar silent sign of protest. No banners or T-shirts necessary, you can show you support for universal human rights (in Tibet and elsewhere!) by holding up your hand with the international sign-language sign for the letter "R." The "R" stands for human RIGHTS. It is simple for anyone to do: fingers crossed, hand otherwise in a fist. (The hand sign "R" looks like a peace sign, with the fingers tangled.) See the "R" for rights sign here:
http://www.alphabetandletter.com/sign.html

A. Bonacker, east hampton, New York

Who is this Lord Coe? Why does he take it for granted that everybody should know or know of him in the world so that he would not have been pushed away from the torch? If anybody cannot recognize him, he then branded them 'thugs'. In this case, he is no better than a thug, he is extremely arrogant.
And I do not see anything wrong having some Chinese guards to prevent protesters from extinguishing the fire of the Olympic torch. They were not violent in London at all. I was watching TV for the whole day. The police did a very good job as well.

Lily, Leeds,

I think it would be very symbolic if somewhere along the way someone does snuff this torch as a symbol and to honor those who died trying to achieve some degree of basic human rights and the decency of freedom for Tibet. I would think it would most likely be an American who would see their way to making a world statement like this.

Doug, Vancouver, Canada

To Wilfred knight, orange county:

China as a capitalistic country with a communist wrapping. It is difficult to explain but if you would ever bother to pay a visit, you would know what I am talking about.

In my opinion a country who would, out of fear and/or greed, invade an internationally-acknowledged sovereign country and cause the biggest humanitarian disaster in the 21 century is a true totalitarian regime and a threat to world peace.

Shawn, Oxford, UK

There's no need to be racist.
That's precisely the sort of attitude that can be rightly denounced as anti-Chinese.

The Chinese people get the information that is approved by their government for them to get, like increasingly is the case in Russia. Despite this, many still fight for their freedoms and some are tortured and imprisoned for it. They deserve freedom just as much as we do, although any road to Chinese democracy will take many uncertain years...
just ask Axl Rose!

Chris Kavanagh, London, UK

It's the newest export from China...paramilitary violence. Certainly one of their most accomplished domestic products! Only there's no trade agreement, so it undermines the sovereignty of every nation these thugs visit. But then, undermining the sovereignty of other peoples is another specialty of the Communist Party of China.

Isn't it a sign that something has gone horribly wrong with these Olympics when military goons must be assigned to protect the torch?

Will these guys be accountable to local authorities when they assault citizens who are exercising their right to demonstrate?

From whom are they taking their orders? Are they armed?

Shaun Smith, Toronto, Canada

A group of officers?! We should complain all we want about Chinese heavies visiting our country to protect an emblem of peace and then pushing people around, including people such as Sebastian Coe!

If you want to know why peaceful protests do not have any impact on these kinds of people, just look at the photos. And imagine this lot is coming around your house to carry off one of your loved ones to enforce Chinese rule!

iain carstairs, bedford, uk

"Questions are now being asked as to who authorised their presence as the torch made its journey through London, with the Conservatives last night demanding clarification from the Government."

Who cares!

I'm just waiting for my next supertanker full of cheapo plastic toys to dock at Dover....

I'll certainly be voting Labour May 1st!

Jez W, Leeds,

Nice one. Imagine a team of South African secret police escorting a torch around London during Apartheid, manhandling civilians and British police. Sound far-fetched? You really couldn't make this up.

Congrats Gordon, you're doing a really fine job. 'Personality defects' is putting it mildly.

Wilberforce, London,

Phil - get a grip - i think you have your own slightly twisted agenda.

bob smith, Clytha,

Imagine what would have happened if they weren't there? I'm tired of these evidently clear double standards exhorted by the vast majority. The Olympics are a sporting event, if you do not agree with China's activities in Tibet, protest, peacefully. But these violent anti-Chinese protests are no better than violent actions of the Chinese in Tibet (and elsewhere in China for that matter, why is there is no reference to the crises and abuses of the millions in Xinjiang for example). Does anyone think they can 'shame' China into 'giving up' 'its' land? Get a grip on reality. The only change that will affect China is when all of us stop buying cheap Chinese imports (and we all have them including the protesters) and the Chinese people want change themselves. Till then stop complaining about a group of Chinese officers assigned to protecting torchbearers from the violent protesters.

Farrukh, Woking, UK

Joy of Joys !
Brits get a taste of real communist fascism on their own doorstep.
Chinese goons acting out as bully boys- well, really what did you expect from a totalitarian state ?
Did you learn nothing from Hitler's show ?
Ancient civilization they may claim, but the concept of individual liberty , championed by the Anglo-Saxon, has yet to be found in the Chinese mind.
So, yes let the Chinese celebrate this epoch when 2/3 of their population leave subsistence agriculture behind after 10,000 years and become townfolk. It is a real step forward, dramatic for the human race.
But their very actions just show how far rhe Chinese have yet to travel, before they deserve a seat amongst the civilized nations of the West.

wilfred knight, orange county, usa/california

A bizarre rant indeed! Some euroskeptics can spot an EU story in absolutely anything...

Rob Stevenson, Southend,

Bit extreme ain't it, deploying special forces just to keep a little flame alight. Am sure the London Metropolitan Police could have done the job of keeping the protesters from attacking the torch bearers.

Aaron Stewart, London, England

If you think those Chinese guardians are using force on protesters, please provide pictures.

Lily, Toronto,

flame attendants who can't speak english must be thugs? what a racist comment. I thought london was a civilized place.

Avina, kingston, canada

Our Government has allowed an elite paramilitary force to operate in England. So what? It's not the first time. Every important American bigwig, starting with President Reagan, has been accompanied by sleeve talking goons who may even have been armed in defiance of our laws.(Remember the tale of the time that loose-tailored jackets stopped the Uzzi bulge?)

C.U.James, GLASGOW,

Just another example of the way the government is moving Britain. If you didn't think we are moving towards a communists state following the hard line socialist policies of the EU which ignores the will of the people eg France and the Netherlands who refused to accept the EU Constitution, the real communists were on our doorstep on Sunday ! If you want more of this you know who to vote for, and if you still don't get it you don't deserve a vote !

Phil de Buquet, Newport, England

I watched the whole process, those guards never wrestle down any protesters, its the police forces. Otherwise you would have a photo to prove it.

Bob, durham, UK