Thank you Eddie Mackeral,

My point exactly, I was commenting on Julie's post below, hence my use of quote marks.

For Kid Gaerett.
"The Nazis were responsible for 11 million murders. The Nazis were proud atheists."

What tosh, the german Army had "Got Mit uns" in their belts this means God is with you, hardly the uniform of an athiest.

Which is why I said Julie was somewhat in error.

It is sad that people are still in need of the bronze age mechanisms of social control provided by religion, especially when there is so little benefit to be derived from these bizarre superstitions other than the opportunity to browbeat, bully, blackmail and other nasty 'b' words.

Kidd Garrett, Bristol, UK

To David Leslie, Perth, Scotland,

That is the problem with this article, it implies that Nilofer Bakhtiar was FORCED to resign because of the fatwa, when infact she had OFFERED to resign (due to the reasons I mentioned before i.e because, she did not like being forced to step down as the chairperson of Women's Wing of the Pakistan Muslim League earlier and not because of the fatwa). This offer of resignation has subsequently been rejected by the Prime Minister who has told her to carry on with her job

Next with regards to the Fatwa. A Fatwa is a legal opinion which is not binding. As with other ridiculous fatwas issued by ill-educated so called Clerics like Maulana Abdul Aziz, these fatwa are ignored by the vast majority of muslims

So please do not judge the actions of all muslims and all Pakistanis on the rantings of these extremists. It would be like condemning everyone in the UK and the USA as racist because of the word and actions of the National Front or the KKK

Ali, Edinburgh, UK

The Bible (which the koran acknowledges is the word of God and the word of God cannot be changed) says dwell on what is good and praiseworthy. Therefore these clerics should dwell on this lady's good intentions in trying to raise money for those poor children instead of seeing her jubilation at succeeding as evil.
Jesus is revered in Islam as a prophet but do they listen to what He had to say. His views on religious leaders are so relevant today

Lynne Khan, Southend, U.K

If she'd hugged him on the way down (perhaps discovering her parachute wouldn't open and hoping to hitch a safe ride down under his), would this also have been unacceptable?

Zoe Marie Bullingham, London,

Is it possible for pakistan to look any more foolish than they already do to the rest of the world? Clearly religion does not play a positive role in Pakistan and simply leads sharia-law-toting nutcases and zealots to believe their own reactionary hype. A government minister doing a sponsored parachutre jump to raise funds for orphaned children?!!? - come to Britain then please Ms Bakhtiar, we can only dream of politicians doing the right thing in this country - ditch the lunatics freakshow that is Islam and join a more enlightened society.

phil, London, uk

Unfortunately this has little to with Islam and parachutes and is more to do with a fight for political control

Muqbool, London,

The common ground shared by most religions and ideologies is that they place their god or their collective purposes above the individual. Basic individual rights similar to those enshrined in the likes of the US constitution and thoroughly defended by a secular state is the only effective defence against these individual crushing movements. The Pakistani government doesn't appear to have either the strength to provide that defence or the belief on which that strength can be built.

jim, Paisley, Scotland

Not a good advert for tourism in the country, methinks.

Baldockbaldrick, Hertfordshire,

'Islam is a man made religion' - and I suppose you're saying that other religions, Christianity perhaps, are not man made?!

All religions are the product of stories and over active imaginations, and frankly I find it mind blowing that so many people these days subscribe to such nonsense. Anyway, they obviously do, and the effect that has on the world is pretty sad generally.

To my point however: why do nearly all discussions on this website turn to religion?! Or is it just that people with irrational beliefs are more likely to ramble on about them on sites like this?!

NL, the Netherlands,

How come when Arafat went hand in hand with his male visitors no one commented(religious or not)or insinuated anything(at least not in public) but when a Pakistani woman minister(not a religous one god forbid!!) , fully and heavily clothed hugs a male who is also fully and heavily clothed??
Can someone explain that for me please.

Moshe Haviv, Tel Aviv, Israel

Looks like the muslim totalitarian viewpoint is coming to the fore in Pakistan. Looks like they're trying to emulate their fellow religionist Hitler.

cotumely, london,

Ali, Edinburgh. Thanks for the info, however, it does not excuse the basic tenet of the article, that a religious, non-constitutional court issued the fatwa against this lady for hugging her skydiving instructor. And if 'Dawn' is to be believed, if she resigned some months ago, why does the correspondent in Islamabad claim that she lost her job on 20th May?

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

Where in the Koran does it even suggest that it is a crime to hug another person?
Islam is a man made religion created by Mohammed and followed through by the imams a fundamental clerics. Even music (classical music included) is forbidden. That is the extent is Islamic grip on all its followers.
If indeed hugging is a "religious crime", then that person is answerable to his/her creator. Not the local imam.

Bruce Berry, Sutton, UK

When will all the smart people say "Enough is enough". We know all the youth in these countries are tired of the resistance to develop and be a clever people. How can this mentality develop and thrive in the places where society and culture was developed so long ago? It is time for their people to say
"enough".

anna, MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota

For Kid Gaerett.
"The Nazis were responsible for 11 million murders. The Nazis were proud atheists."

What tosh, the german Army had "Got Mit uns" in their belts this means God is with you, hardly the uniform of an athiest.

eddie mackeral, london,

It is facism, clear and simple, just a different, mad ideology.

Regardless of our hapless Gvnt and their adventure in Iraq, we are going to be at war with these people for a long time to come.

Internationally and domestically.

fnu snu, Genf, Schweiz

@Julie

Ignoring the fact that your argument is based on a false assertion, i.e. that Nazis were proud atheists...(they weren't)

just because one large group of atheists does something evil, does not automatically mean all atheists are evil.

Think.

Pete, Bristol, England

Interesting that having said ' i am an atheist' i am immediately castigated for being a Nazi, i can see fair comment or tolerance is not the forte of our Religious friends. The term Bigots springs to mind.

simon, leeds, u.k.

A woman having faced fear and feeling the adrenalized joy of truly living fearlessly reaches out to another human in joyful expression of real human connection and is beaten down by religious nonsense. What a travesty to the human condition.

Steven , Austin, Texas, USA

It takes a lot to help people in need. It takes a lot to preserve humanity in a world, where it just seems to die. It takes a lot - and one person, who is willing to make the first step...
But it takes more than a generation to fight the opression of women in the sacred mantel of religion. Shame on a religion, where people are discredited, who are willing to change the condition of people's living, who are willing to help, when they are needed.
I only wish for the Pakistani that Ms Bakhtiar would not give up and fight for rights people were born with them...

Susanna, Budapest, Hungary

Consider: "religion" is man made. Faith is personal.
Some people cannot be trusted with religion. They use it politically, to dominate - even terrorize. Consider too L Ron Hubbard admitted he invented the 'religion' of Scientology.
If humanity has any future it must grasp the concept that all religions are manmade variations on one theme. If there is a supreme being then logically, there can be only one faith.

Leigh Vernier, Riyadh, KSA

To David Leslie Perth
Pakistan newspaper may not be sold in your local newsagent but they are easily available (in english) on the internet.

If you read some of these papers (I recommend Dawn), you would see how the actions of the Lal Masjid is condemded daily in the papers editorial and in the letters to the editor and you would also see the real reasons why Nilofer Bakhtiar decided to resign.

Two months ago (before she went to France) Nilofer Bakhtiar was asked to step down as the chairperson of Women's Wing of the Pakistan Muslim League where she was replaced by Sumaira Malik the Women Development and Youth Affairs Minister.
Nilofer Bakhtiar took this action (and the subsequent lack of support she recieved from her female collegues who had turned against her after she had made unflattering comments about a number of them) as a personel snub and decided to tender her resignation over this issue.

So she was outwitted by a more attractive and elegant FEMALE political rival

Ali, Edinburgh, UK

Firstly: thank you Momus.

Secondly: with regards to the comments by Julie Bailey:-

'To all " proud atheists",

The Nazis were responsible for 11 million murders. The Nazis were proud atheists. The problem is good vs. evil and the fact that evil does exist. Think.'

Pride is a 'besetting sin' of the religious and the ignorant, it would appear that you belong to both categories.

To say that Nazis were atheists is not so much to bend the truth as to ignore it completely, just because they didn't adhere to your tenets does not mean that they didn't construct their own.

Whilst not as laughable a fiction as those cobbled together by Elron, they were fervid in their promotion of 'Positive Christianity', they combined some of the dour local Lutheranism (purged of any 'weakness') with a garbled reconstruction of North European paganism.

Without a religious basis for the ideology of Nazism, it is highly unlikely that such depths of depraved cruelty would have been plumbed

Kidd Garrett, Bristol, UK

I don't understrand islamists , really , the more I read books and newspaper about Islam (extremist,especially of course) to try to sympathise, the less I understand. In Europe, we had a similar period of intolerance and backwardings : Middle-Aged. Can't they learn of this lesson, of this violent era, and not do the same mistakes as Christians did a long time ago? Islam is basically a great religion but what they are making of it is disastrous. Shame!

Louisa, Soissons, Fr

In response to those who say that 'religeon is evil' I and i'm sure many others who pray and work for the good of others as a believer, feel somewhat insulted. Secondly, it's sounds just as narrow minded as those who would call a hug evil. As many here have said, it's the greed, power corruption of people that cause war and hatred.

David, Granada, Spain

Typical story showing the ugly face of orthodox Islam: men trying to control the behaviour of women (and, unfortunately, succeeding). It all comes from the idea that a woman, any woman, is a possession first and a human being second. How nauseatingly primitive!

Ed Zuiderwijk, Cambridge, UK

Nicw one Islam.....continuing to win friends & influence people...........not.
You really have to feel sorry for the people controlled by the idiot clerics.......and for Islam generally. It now resembles a cult.

Phil, Preston,

Nice one Islam.....continuing to win friends and influence people......not.
You really do have to feel so sorry for the poor people controlled by these clerics.....and for Islam generally. It now resembles a cult.

Phil, Preston,

Julie Bailey : "The Nazis were proud atheists."

Wrong. The Nazis venerated Adolf Hitler as a God and lept up his words as manna from heaven. Same problem with guys like Stalin (a failed priest, by the way), Lenin, Mao etc.

You could argue that believing in a god called Jahwee, Allah or just "God" doesn't lead to comparable unhuman treatment of ones fellow human beings, but I for one am not so sure of that.

Ed Zuiderwijk, Cambridge, UK

..."The Nazis were responsible for 11 million murders. The Nazis were proud atheists. The problem is good vs. evil and the fact that evil does exist. Think...."


I have thunk and thunk and thunk so hard,..and still wonder why so many churches remained intact in Germany under Hitlers rule all throughout WW2

Did Hitler, Goerbbels and Goering give out hugs and kiss's ?

thunker, UK,

And which century before 700AD are these people from? Are they allowed in the UN?

David Welch, London, UK,

To Julie of the USA - actually, the Nazi party was officially Christian, not atheist. The problem with the Nazis was not that they lacked God. The problem was that they lacked humanity - which is something different altogether.

Michael Allen, Newcastle,

I have read many such examples of the Islamic intolerance, but each new report leaves me astounded as to how primitive that religion is. When are they intending to come into 21st century?

Maria, Sydney, Australia

Julie, Welches from USA/Or. I am not an 'atheist', I just don't think that there is this huge ego maniac in the sky, who worries about whether a woman hugs a man; a person falls in love with another of the same sex.

Not sure what I have in common with Nazi Germany. Also not sure were it is written in the Nazi manifesto that they are to exterminate the Jews and conquer Europe because they don't believe that there is a god.

Why don't you think?

Jite, London, England

why cant these islamics realize that religion must be kept IN THE HOUSE , or in your place of worship ??
they are poisoning mainstream muslims !!

shripad, wakefield,

Some of these comments are just plain daft. Why the query as to van Gogh being murdered in 2004? Theo van Gogh was indeed murdered in 2004, as any internet search could tell you. Surely the person commenting cannot be so silly so as to be thinking of the painter van Gogh... no, it's not possible...

Bringing the Nazis into the argument is hardly intelligent, and "proud atheists?" Although some Nazis were atheists and Hitler's Christian belief is the subject of debate, the official Nazi party platform was explicitly based on Christian ideals.

Lw, London,

Ha!... and Islamic clerics say that we 'westerners' have problems...I laugh out loud! When a simple gesture such as a hug costs a woman her job. A simple and kind human gesture which is older than Allah himself. Tell me, where in your holy Koran does it say that human gestures should be scorned. This woman was doing a good deed for the people of your country Pakistan, and this is your return of gratitude. You have many obstacles to overome and perhaps you should start with helping such unfortunates such as the earthquake victims rather than casting the first stone!!

tom, london, uk

Can anyone give me an example of a good thing in Sharia society? Women prohibited from a formal education, forced to cover themselves from head to foot in black, not allowed to drive or work for pay. Open learning becomes a thing of the past as the wider literature is burned or otherwise destroyed, with only Islamic texts permitted. Economies go in to free-fall because their advancement is stunted as technological innovation is eliminated by religious zealots. All in all, those driving the Sharia machine are taking their people back to an outdated existence akin to middle age society; certainly the threat of violence is what we might expect from that era. Is there a bigger piucture here? Islam is a relatively young religion compared to some others, a 1000 years younger than Chistianity, and even younger than Judaism. Is there perhaps a path that must be trodden by Islam so that time will lead to eventual maturity and non-oppression for all its followers? Another millenium maybe?

Al, Buxton, Derbyshire

these people who rationalise there fear that there religion can be destroyd by a simple act off hugging are showing clearly what a week religion they have.why else would they resort to threats off violence.?time to confront these people head on.and lets see which side there so called god is on.enough is enough.they are only showing there fear off women.

gerrard duffy, brighton, england.

Ali, Edinburgh. I don't feel that this a kneejerk reaction to anything, the events, as reported, are consistant with an Islamic fundamentalism that is showing itself around the world. Unfortunately they don't sell Pakistani newspapers in my local newsagent, much the same as those in Pakistan probably don't have ready supply of 'The Times' in their local stores.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

Interesting to see so much criticism of conservative religion coming from the US readers. Does this mean we can look forward to the liberty loving democratic people of the bible belt abandoning their objections to the teaching of evolution (surely church interfering in state business?) and cheerily waving women on their way to the abortion clinics?

No I don't expect we can either. Fascistic religious dogma is wrong whether its Islamic or Christian

Mark, Manchester, UK

All religions have the same fundamental problem: they all teach that their followers are superior to non-believers. That simple fact allows intolerance and ultimately some degree of conflict. Religion is evil. People are fundamentally the same, it is religion that separates us.

Phil, Malaga, Spain

The trouble is absolute belief such as existed in Europe when heretics were burnt. If you are totally certain only you yourself possess the ultimate truth you are willing to do anything.

Currently most European believers are somewhat relativist - they appreciate that many other (possibly correct) religions and schools of thought exist. This makes them on the whole less prone to extremism.

Doubt/uncertainty are a blessing.

Phil, Hong Kong,

Religious extreamism--Islamic, Christian, what-have-you--has only one motive in mind: power through destruction.

There is nothing wrong with any mainstream religion, they offer comfort and give people a platform from which they can reach a better place, find a higher ideal for themselves, give compassion to others.

Religious extremism only has one goal--faith through hate.

Sadly, all that gets you is massive insecurity and needless destruction and death.

Nancy, Glens Falls, USA NY

The former secular(-ish) Iranian administration, after years of American support, was overthrown by the Iranian clerics in the Iranian revolution, which has led us to where we are today.

The Pakistani general is considered an "ally" on the "war on terror", yet we are seeing more resistance from Pakistani Islamic clerics and radicals. One suspects a Pakistani revolution is not unimaginable.

The only problem is, Pakistan already has nuclear weapons.

What then Dubya? What then?

Pete, Cov,

Looking at the origin of most of the comments posted on this news item you could be forgiven for thinking this article was from the New York times. Fundamentalism is not unknown in America, just a different flavour. Not sure i agree about Islam going back to the stone age, in the stone age people probably worshipped the Sun which sounds a lot more sensible to me, after all it does shine on everyone, (then that other lot came along that decided to worship the Moon) same old, same old.

Don, leeds, u.k.

It is both a strength and weakness of Islam that it has no formal central hierarchy, no equivalent of the Pope. In this situation it is a great weakness as it allows any foolish Imam with half a following to make outrageous pronouncements and to declame on what the Koran does or does not allow. It seems that few if any moderate leaders in the Muslim world are prepared to raise their heads above the parapet and say, in cases like this, don’t be ridiculous this is not what the Koran says. Unless moderate Muslims can seize the initiative back from the fundamentalists the future for harmonious relations between Islam and the rest of the world look bleak. Almost everything western liberal values encompass and take for granted seems to be an anathema to fundamentalist Muslims. In this increasingly global age it is not possible for two totally incompatible value systems to coexist side by side without there being friction. Events like the invasion of Iraq only make matters worse.

Kevin, Kent,

I seem to remember there was a young man who set fire to himself in Prague, I think, in protest against and oppressive, Soviet-controlled regime. It is a human right to commit suicide for a good cause, whether that be freligious or political or whatever.
The difference is that his death, though tragic, did not kill scores of innocent people around him. As such it aroused support and sympathy, not revulsion.

The suicide bombers who hit the headlines in Islamic countries, and non-Islamic countries in which thye have chosen to settle, are mostly pretty ordinary people who seem to have been goaded to their sacrifices by influential clerics. Off-hand I cannot recall one single Imam who has made the sacrifice himself. Seems to be a case of do as I say, not as I would do.

Ian Watering, Hamar, Norway

Would the hypocrit good priests of all religions agree on women practicing :
hockey as goal keepers,
fencing (mask and plastron),
winter mountaineering (no need to exlain hopefully),
very deep scuba diving,
hand gliding (very convenient flight bag),
gliding
and generally speaking indulging in any activity which hides the body features ?

Ronnie, Paris,

All around the world Islamic fundamentalism is leading to destabilisation, be it in Pakistan, Iraq, Denmark or indeed, the UK. When will world governments come to realise that the Muslim faith is unable to cope with the demands of the modern world, with it's equality for women, freedom of expression, freedom to have any or no faith. Appeasement has a history of failure, appeasing militant Muslims will also fail and will lead to even greater conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

I'm afraid that I must, with much sadness, agree with Mr. Allover.
What I hope to hear (from someone that can influence these things in the Muslum world) is how and when can the mind set that results in such behavior be chaged for the better. Are all the clear-headed, anti-violence Muslums in authority so intimidated that we never see or hear any of them make consitent, public and forceful statements to "their" people?
I pray that strong, peace-loving Muslum leaders (secular and clerical) step forward soon to begin the process of healing and help their followers move towards a day when their hopes and dreams for peace, love and prosperity can begin to be achieved.

A. CONSIGLIO, Chicago,

Kebo,
We don't forget that there are several countries that burnt witches 400 years ago in fact it's exactly why we don't do that today.
I would suggest that we went through pain and self critique to undertand it's simply not right.

Many other issues are the same, although some just aren't there yet - wars without public backing is perhaps one.
I've just read this article by Boris Johnson a UK MP written prior to the Afganistan invasion that suggests the greatest difference between the middle east and the west (I dislike these terms by the way) is the level of equality that women presume to have. Boris is seen as a bit comical in the UK and a conservative but he makes an outstanding point.
Hopefully the middle east reaches it's own consenus and women are liberated, I just hope it's not too painful.

Rich, Singapore,

They may have the full liberity but why to put out the tactics of Islamic teachings. Islam is not radical it just says to follow such simple rules so that you're husband your family even your kids may not have shame in other people's eyes. Why an article of just few lines of Democracy is being followed and superceded by people rather than few codes of conduct. Why some girls feel uncomfortble being touched on their erogenouse zones, does freedom of expression ends only at that point of sensitivity.

Sarfaraz Abbasi, Karachi, Pakistan

Re Garrett, I absolutely agree. Problem appears to be that the islamic zealots seem to be getting the upper hand over Islamic moderates theeby spoiling the name of Islam. Their governments appear powerless or cowardly.

Ashley, Glasgow,

C Heathcote - I couldn't agree more.

david, cambridge,

Hugging is seau 2007!

Let's hug around the world

Sytze Vliegen, utrecht,

Xtianity temporised: "render unto Caesar..."

Islam does not.

Islam does not recognise the validity of secular authority in the same way that Xtianity does, there is no countervailing secular pressure, therefore Islam tends to be dominated by people who see no need to reach an accomodation with other societal structures, compromise is not seen to be desirable in order to ensure inclusivity, instead intolerance ensures conformity.

Xtianity exhibited very similar tendencies when there was insufficient authority in opposition to the tenets of the church, much of the middle ages saw outbreaks of Xtian intolerance which were not dissimilar.

Don't blame Islam any more than you would blame Xtianity for the inquisition, do blame the intolerant bigots who inflict their sad failure to be intelligent compassionate rounded worthwhile human beings on the people around them.

Without the delusions provided by religions, such people would sad lonely and powerless with no-one to exploit.

Kidd Garrett, Bristol, UK

To Chris, Surrey, UK

Sorry, but I don't agree neither would any true Muslim or even non-Muslims who have actually read the Quran and understand the true teachings of Islam. (Which I really doubt in your case). In Quran there is no licence or permission or tolerance for violent behaviour in any form whatsoever. I can bet anything on it.

Chris if you have difficulties in understanding what Quran says about violence, please consult some Islamic scholars to learn about the text in its proper context, surely your comment is purely out of huge misunderstanding and lack of knowledge about Islam and its true teachings.

Chris find me just one piece of evidence from Quranic text which says what you claim, I will convert to your religion straight away no questions asked . . . . .!

And this is an example of confidence that we Muslims have in our faith. I hope you will try to look out for evidence, if you were sincere in the discussion. I will look forward to your response.

Qasim, BRE,

Leave, get a plane ticket, grab your kids and go. Why would a woman want to stay in a place that treated her like a dog, heck, worse than a dog. To me it reminds me of the lady on cops telling the police not to take her man to jail for beating her, that she loved him....what's is so great about that sandbox that makes woman want to stay? Can't be the men, sure as heck ain't the food...so why stay?

Religion offers nothing, when will people realize this? Be it Christians, Muslims or what have you....your so called religion breds hate and death. Christians have been just as bad...crazy!

Doug, Haughton, LA

To all " proud atheists",

The Nazis were responsible for 11 million murders. The Nazis were proud atheists. The problem is good vs. evil and the fact that evil does exist. Think.

Julie Bailey

Julie, Welches, USA/Or

When will these theocrat whingers renounce their hysteria about women and sex? Please grow up. Get yourself laid and grow up. Make love not war. Find yourself a nice blanket-covered honey and make a baby. For G-d's sake when will you people learn to enjoy the great blessings that G-d has bestowed upon us, in the forms of a beautiful world with beautiful women and men of all shapes and sizes? Get out there and enjoy it, thou cowardly whinger.

Maynard, Oxford, UK

So Musharraf does not seem to be supporting this brave woman and is apparently surrendering to Islamic extremists. And Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Please Mr Musharraf destroy all nuclear weapons you have before the Islamists come into power if you are so unable to stand up to the Islamists. Remember standing up to Islamists does not just mean defeating rebels in the border with Pakistan. It also means giving your full support to this woman.

Daniel Fernandes, Kettering, UK

During the middle ages Christians forced their beliefs down any available throat, often with violence involved. Fortunately , with the obvious exception of Mr Bush, we appear to have grown up slightly.
Any nation with a sovereign Government which allows a minority to pervert the rule of law has already lost control of the nations affairs so we would appear to have our first Islamic state with nuclear potential.
I truly believe that any individual or organisation should be allowed freedom of choice as long as they do not harm others, even the right to harm themselves if they wish, I do not however believe this right should be enjoyed by children too young to judge for themselves or the mentally disturbed.
The culture exhibits all the traits of a child, the individuals concerned, well work it out.

Mark, Manchester, United Kingdom

Hopefully an extreme view and value not shared by most?

Individual liberties appear to increasingly under threat by self serving groups using a number of reasons cultural and sometimes religion as grounds for intolerance.

Population and vastly better immigration control and citizenship and residency laws need to be seen in this context. This will also ensure that education resources and other resources can cope with the demands put upon them.

Completely uncontrolled and largescale mass illegal immigration can cause unintended problems as well as some benefits. The can cause fundamental problems for the future, especially if some groups have vastly different value systems and isolationist tendancies.

Economic aid should be tied to encouraging open and free societies.With the aim of reducing the need for mass migration and development of human rights abroad.

ab, uk, uk

I don't mind the Islam, but the men who are making out the rulez..... hate it when you treat woman like that.

For the rest, Americans, look at yourself. Take an example of us. You're long not so open minded as you think. You have a big scandal when someone shows a nipple (which is nothing to be affraid of, just a body part :)), but have the biggest porn scene..... And you're against abortion. Why?? (though there should be a goor legitimed reason, as a handicapped child, or you live in pain the rest of your life...)

As far as I know, because of your believes (god gives and takes lives...) And religion i is NO! argument. Sciences and arguments should rule.

Thank god I live here and have fully controle on my life. When I'm a 'plant' the rest of my life, I thank my family which pulls out the plug.

Mark, The Netherlands.

Mark, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

@SB:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29

Theo Van Gogh was the great-grandson of Vincent Van Gogh's brother, and he was indeed murdered in 2004.

Tom, Marshall, VA

To all superior Americans,

Regarding stone age, Islam, and womens rights etc comments - do you forget that your country was segregated only 40 years ago? Or the controversy of Janet Jackon's 'nipplegate'? What about the KKK - they are Christian, and well practiced at killing - surely this shows that individuals kill, not religion (as the old NRA saying goes)? Or is Christianity barbaric too???

Mark, Chicago, US

To Jacqueline, Osaka, Japan

A large proportion of the Khmer Rouge were buddhists......not exactly the most peaceful of groups..

Ben, London, London

Can Doug Give us an example? I have lived in Pakistan/The middle east/West Africa/ U.S.A/ Australia/China/Russia/Brazil/Chile...we take our freedom and rights for granted in UK....it's a wonderful place to live

tom, london, london

Speaking as an Atheist (and proud of it), i can only look on with bemusement as fundamental Muslims, Christians, and Jews carry on doing their best to wreck the Planet.

simon, Leeds, u.k.

SB in Harrow: Theo van Gogh was indeed murdered in 2004 - were you thinking of Vincent?

PE, St Albans, UK

What is it with Pakistan at the moment ? There doesnt seem to be any good-news stories from the country. Look at the last few weeks - killings of oppostion figures, Taliban in hiding in the NW Frontier, Terrorist suspects in dodgey training camps, the selling of Nuclear-weapons grade fuel to "pariah" nations, etc, etc and now this. Plenty of work there for a good PR rep I guess. Provided they are male of course.

James, Manchester,

Jacqueline, Osaka, Japan


Would just like to point out that the troubles in northern ireland has had nothing in particular to do with religion and more to do with occupation by the british. the catholic v protestant made it easier to identify between irish (ie catholic) and loyalist (protestant).

Paul, Armagh, Northern Ireland

The Irony, of course, is that incidents such as this one with the Tourism Minister mean you couldn't pay most people enough to visit Pakistan.

Adam, Oxford,

<i>What a joke. How can we possibly take nations where this sort of thing happens seriously?</i>

I totally agree. When Clinton was accused of getting oral sex from an intern all of America just shrugged and said "Meh. It doesn't conform to my personal views of morality and acceptable behavior, but whatever."

I mean it's not like religious leaders and conservatives were calling for his resignation or anything...

Momus, Earth,

This is not an Islam vs. West but largely a Pakistani specific issue. Ever since Pakistan was founded in 1947, the Generals have used the twin weopons of 'bullet and militant Islam' to overthrow their own democratic governments, and push their own agendas in the neighboring countries. And all through these years, our governments have stood by these military dictatorships because it suited our "strateic interests". Well now the frankenstein is coming home to roost. And you can replace Pakistan with most countries in the Middle East and it is the same story.

So our leaders should take a leaf from our own books. Despite the allure of short term economic and geopolitical interests, we need to support democratic governments every where. It won't be easy but it will be the right thing in the long run. As Sir Winston Churchill once said “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

Steve Bell, San Francisco, USA

It's an obscenity to hug someone but it's alright to strap a bomb to yourself and blow up 25 innocent people...sickening.

C Heathcote, Tonbridge,

As a woman, it makes me sad to think that Islam (as it is interpreted today), see women as less than human. If God created us, and we must cover our selves for shame of being a woman, denied education, killed for non-compliance etc. Is that not saying to God “what you have created is total crap”. In end effect of all this effort to deny women freedom to be human – Blasphemy.
Are Muslim men so sex crazed that the mere sight of a woman’s arm will drive a man to commit terrible things? Perhaps there is something wrong with the education of these little boys to start with.
But let’s face it; Islam has turned into a cruel and backward religion. Violence is the only method of putting their agenda on the table. When will the silent good majority have the courage to put forward there interpretation of a good and true Islam?
I suppose the only way to change my opinion is to have me shot or burnt alive. Or is mere intellectual reasoning simply non-existent for some.

hess, Dusseldorf, Germany

"People here who blame the religion should study ISLAM and only then they will find out for themselves how great and wonderful a religion it actually is"

Qasim, be honest with yourself when you read the Quran - it gives plenty of licence for violent behaviour.

Chris, Surrey, UK

While I do not condone the actions of the taliban, and certainly think that Nilofar Bakhtiar is an extremely brave and wonderful woman for doing this fundraising to raise awareness and money for a good cause, what westerners must recognise is that in Asian (not just Islamic) societies, the norm of behaviour is different to that in Western societies. As a Hindu, born and brought up in the UK, by what most would consider liberal parents, I still think it is wrong for a woman to 1) dress inappropraiately 2) act in an unladylike way. Fundamentalisim in any religion is wrong but has anyone considered that the current fashionable notion of lady-like behaviour in UK society is something that Asian society espouses. Lady-like behaviour covers all things like dress, appropriate behaviour in public (and private). Nilofar's hug is clearly not sexual, however discretion is clearly required, the exhilaration and adrenalin rush she must have felt notwithstanding.

Tanya, London,

The West needs to wake up and realize... that there is NO "moderate Islam". The faith, like many others, is predicated up its spread and growth, and not by evangelism or missionary work alone, but by force and violence if necessary...

Westerners should not attack Islam, but try to simply understand it. ALL truly devout Muslims are "extremists" by Western standards, and the reason why we never see evidence of the supposed peace-loving, moderate Islamic majority is because this group does not exist... Those who we might view as moderates are simply those who are not actively practicing their faith.

The role of religion in government, especially as pertains to the 'parallel' enforecement of Sharia law, and the current events in Pakistan are perfectly consistent with the practice of Islam, and we need to understand that the Islamic world does NOT wish to be culturally assimilated by the West...

Jon Musselman, Slidell, USA / Louisiana

It is fascinating that the fact that this lady risked her life to raise money for children, which she did successfully, has been obscured by her hug. But it is all about power, the fear of a loss of power by men who seek to control others by playing God. I would think that, in countries that have kept women down through spurious religious reasons, to see any woman succeeding in ways which threaten men would be an anathema and all kinds of brutal acts would be used to prevent them advancing. It was only a few years ago we had a clamour against women priests right here in our fair isle. So the Muslim religion is not unique in its treatment of anything which threatens its dogma and male hegemony. Power is truly a terrible thing when it is misused.

Elaine Sihera, Maidenhead, United Kingdom

@Jaqueline in Osaka, please refrain from the old saw about the troubles in Northern Ireland being anything to do with religion. One side happen to be Protestant, the other Catholic, but that's it. Firstly, they were fighting about politics and territory, not whether one should cross oneself at the altar or eucharistic transubstantiation; secondly, the despicable acts of the Islamists (persistent deliberate targeting of civilians, suicide bombings, violent oppression of women etc) make the IRA look positively democratic and moralistic by comparison; thirdly, you may have noticed that they have now put down their weapons and have engaged in peaceful democratic dialogue.

Syd, Cambridge,

As a woman, it makes me sad to think that Islam (as it is interpreted today), see women as less than human. If God created us, and we must cover our selves for shame of being a woman, denied education, killed for non-compliance etc. Is that not saying to God “what you have created is total crap”. In end effect of all this effort to deny women freedom to be human – Blasphemy.
Are Muslim men so sex crazed that the mere sight of a woman’s arm will drive a man to commit terrible things? Perhaps there is something wrong with the education of these little boys to start with.
But let’s face it; Islam has turned into a cruel and backward religion. Violence is the only method of putting their agenda on the table. When will the silent good majority have the courage to put forward there interpretation of a good and true Islam?
I suppose the only way to change my opinion is to have me shot or burnt alive. Or is mere intellectual reasoning simply non-existent for some.

hess, Dusseldorf, Germany

It's funny all the muslims who want to defend Islam seem to live in the west! I wonder why they prefer to live in the christian majority west than with their brothers in Saudi or PAksitan?

Gabe, Dublin,

As usual whenever there is a article about Pakistan we get the knee-jerk comments about Islam, nuclear bomb, the war on terror etc from people who has little or no understanding of the situation.

If any of the people who had commented had bothered to read any Pakistani newspaper they would have found out that Nilofar Bakhtiar had herself dispelled rumours that she had resigned under pressure from the Lal Masjid, rather it due to supporters of the Youth Affairs Minister Sumaira Malik being able to take advantage of the controversy and engineering her replacement within the ruling party.

From some of the comment back to this story it is obvious that ignorance is not just confined to the likes of Maulana Abdul Aziz and Abdur Rashid Gazi

Ali, Edinburgh, UK

To Akram Malik of Australia.

You used a bad example for how people can be happy under muslim rule :
During the muslim rule in spain, the country was not peaceful. The muslims were driven out region by region, king by king, until the very last region was re-conquered.

Cristina, Granada, Spain

To Rasheed. I agree with what you say. However, you are writing from the US, a free country in which everyone may practice the religion of their choice. What the West seeks is that there is freedom and choice for all. You take for granted in the US the freedoms you would not otherwise have in other countries. I, for example, could not enjoy my way of living in Pakistan as it would be against the local culture. However, from your own argument, I should ideally be free to uphold my cultural beliefs whereever I am and "be left alone". Until this happens, the West is right to question and object to these moral dictatorships and religious zealots.

Neil, England,

The moral code of Islam,when applied to women, seems to be very adjustable.When a "few" extremists can control an entire country, the word "few"must have an entirely different meaning than the "few"I'm used to.Muslim women willingly wear the veil.I'd willingly wear a veil also if I knew I was going to be shot for not wearing one.Muslims use the English language,It's just that some of the words have different meanings to them.

ron, toronto,

This sort of behaviour is the reason that the Muslim religion is becoming feared and hated by many people in the west.These crazy old men wield enormous power,it is time the Government took action to stop things like this from happening.If the government does'nt get a grip of the religion,the religion will grip and take over the country.That would be a disaster.

Michael J Rigby, Blackburn, England

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a writer and politician, and the director Theo van Gogh were the subject of fatwas for Submission, their short film about Islam's treatment of women. Van Gogh was murdered in 2004

Van Gogh murdered in 2004 ? We need better review of articles.

SB, Harrow,

The Pakistan government seems content to have the country become a radical islamic state. I wonder how India will react, and whether Pakistan will have any Western support in future...

Pete, Bristol,

Well, what do you expect- this is just political correctness, Pakistan style. I really wonder if it's that much different from what we see in Britain, where the smug, intolerant, politically correct bunch are increasingly making everyone else's life a misery by imposing their own narrow ideology on the community.

Doug, Glasgow,

This is what happens when you let religious zealots run amok. If we don't stop James Dobson, the Moral Majority, Sam Brownback, George W. Bush, and the rest of the minions of "morality crusaders" that foul our country, attempting to wipe away the separation of church and state, and trying to impose their personal superstitions on the rest of us.

Marc J. Randazza, Orlando, Florida

To all those judging 'Islam' on the basis of a few religious nuts:

What is the difference between this and the sexist manner in which the Rabbi's in Israel who do not allow women to sit where they choose on buses??

You get idiots and bullies in every culture and religion. It is religion, superstition and extremism. It doesn't matter if they are Jewish, Islamic or Christian. It has nothing to do with the religion being 'sick or wicked'.

Some of you commenting on here in a very ignorant manner would do better than look in the mirror, especially those of you in the US of A!

Tom, London, UK

Sounds like the Nazi party all over again. The locals need to rise up and take the power back- even if it means rioting. If they let them continue it just going to get worse and worse... The only thing I can do is wish those people who really want freedom some luck and get organized.

Tacoloft, Ogden, UT

This is just typical of Muslim clerics to see sin where there is none. Leave Pakistan and come to America when you can fulfil yourself and become greater than the bunch of men who hold you back. No wonder there society is a mess when they do NOT consider the women's value in society but focus on the negative aspect, even when there is NONE or no offense intended.

Faith , Lansing, MIchigan

I would expect nothing less from this gutter religion.

Allen, Atlanta, GA

Just another clear example of how these intolerant religious fanatics justify their idea of morality with hate, intolerance, suicide and murder. The peaceful people of Islam should be ashamed of themselves for their silence on these matters. They too are living in fear and lack the courage to stand up and voice their opposition to these fanatical islamic extremists. It's a sad state of affairs and it reminds me of how lucky I am to have been born in the United States of America.

GJ Dosal, Ft Lauderdale, FL

"A wrath of clerics" - very apt,

Richard, Preston, UK

It happens everywhere; when Richard Gere kissed that Indian actress,and even in America (remember the uproar,from the conservative media,when an ecstatic member of the US female soccer team got on her knees and removed her shirt,after scoring the winning goal,that won the U.S.the world championship in the 1990's).I'll bet if Tzipi Livni did the same like Ms Bakhtiar,conservative jews will ask for her head.Conservatism sucks,and conservatives are a bunch of hypocrits.

Sam, Dallas, USA

My mother,daughters,sisters,grandmothers,aunties and I, thank god every single day for not having to live under Islamic rule. Living Hell! I am grateful to live in a free country which is heaven indeed for the female family members.

Anne Harris, Tokyo, Japan

Dear Tom Jelen, lakewood , il/usa,

Yes, Christians blow themselves up all the time, we call them the Catholics and the Protestants, and they have an underground club called the IRA.
But, no you are right, Buddhists dont seem to do that to each other, do they? Maybe because they believe that there is a God for everything...
Stories like this certainly makes me appreciate my Australian citizenship and the opportunities that come with that...

Jacqueline, Osaka, Japan

An Islamic scholar I am not, and so cannot speak fact about Islam itself. However, the more I see of the products of Islam, the more outraged I am. The actions and words of so many clerics, commentators and defenders of Islam offend me, frankly. Quote "religious freedom" all you like, this is nothing but intolerable oppression.

If this behaviour is un-Islamic, where are the dissenters? Where are the scholars defending a different interpretation? Are there any? All I can see of Islam suggests that it is at worst barbaric to the core, and at best populated by weak people who accept the barbarism of others. I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

James Torrance, Beijing,

I think we moderate muslims need a martin luther of our own. I am sickened by this talibanization that seems to be going on in the muslim world. These are crazy people and the west needs to do whatever it takes to prevent a taliban type of govt take power in pakistan and blackmail the world with its nuclear stockpile. I say to musharraf, crush them and spare no one. I have had enough of these fundamentalists and their twisted brand of islam.

adam, phoenix, United States,Arizona

To Rasheed in the US. You can do whatever you want, refuse to hug, refuse to kiss, refuse to show any public affection, and be a generally miserable person all you like... but don't force it onto every person born in Pakistan.

John, Beijing, China

It is Stupidity like this that is the reason the majority of these people have not evolved pas the "Stone Age"

C.J., Anytown,

Ms. Bakhtiar acted like any decent indidivual, thanking her host instructor on her first parachute jump. Brave lady. Haven't seen any mothballed mullahs do anything worthwhile, expect advocate violence againt innocent people. Criticism, for the sake of it from obscurantists who read western newspapers and then write sordid opinions. It exhibits the level of tolerance in Islam.

billoo bhai, Florida, USA

I guess this boils down to what s the right thing to do, and what is the lawful thing to do... What's right may not be legal, and what's not very ethically correct may be so legal even the legal beagel has to eat a bagel and shut up... This is what makes them... UNIQUE.

Mel, SG,

I think it's sad that you allowed all of those comments against this article without allowing mine which explained that her resignation was mainly because of another reason, which had nothing to do with this incident. In fact, the UN Human Development Report of 2006 saw Pakistan as one of the leaders when it came to quotas to include women in the political process, clearly beating out several other countries that are not on the media blacklist, such as India.

Sikandar, Karachi,

Well I don't agree with Mark and Mary. It s not the religion that is sick but the people who represent the narrow interpretation of it. Extremists are part of every religion. I think recent developments in India regarding Richard Gere and Bollywood actress Shilpa Shetty Kiss issue is also an example of the narrow minded so called professors of religion.
No religion is sick or evil its the people who make it so.

AFREEN KHOSA, Dublin, Ireland

I hope that Milofar Bakhtiar leaves that backwards country she lives in now and comes to the U.S. I am sure there is a position in this country that would value her extensive expertise both as a woman and as a government employee. I hope that the muslim world realizes that men are not the only ones who are capable of running a country.

Matt, Denver, USA/Colorado

I'm an American living and working in Pakistan (until my contract runs out next year and I'm on the first plane out). Islam pollutes the minds of these people in a horrible fashion, and the educated and moderates, like Ms. Baktier, are deathly afraid of the Islamists, of which there are many. Right now shop owners of dvd and music stores are closing down for fear of being bombed and even killed, as some already have. Barbers are refusing to shave beards now, and men are growing them for fear of their safety. Women are refusing now to drive or go out without hijab. Parents are keeping their girls from school - several schools have received threats and one principal has been kidnapped for allowing girls to enter classes. Two madrassas here have combined their forces and are 10,000+ strong, roaming the capital intimidating people and kidnapping public servants. What is the government doing about them? Not a damn thing. This country is a cesspool of Islamo-fascism.

Counting The Days, Lahore, Pakistan

... (continuing).........Because in their point of view Govt. is not doing enough to enforce the implementation of Islamic laws. And this holds quite true as Govt. is actually not doing enough in both ways as it is also letting the Extremist to take charge of the situation, who in no way are the two representatives of Islam and its true teachings. People here who blam the religion should study ISLAM and only then they will find out for themselves how great and wonderful a religion it actually is and not the religion in thehands of extremist which is further enhanced by the media all over the world.

Qasim, BRE,

this is not about culture being different your locked into the 14th century and refuse to see the rest of the world progressing in the twentieth century ,,, you people breed hate between one another and its disgusting ,open your eyes, do you see Christians or Buddhists blowing themselves up? when do the so called clerics blow themselves up instead of sending their brainwashed congregation's?

Tom Jelen, lakewood , il/usa

unbelievable. No wonder there is little tolerance for islam. If they truely say they are a religion of peace. the Majority need to stand up and correct what the world is seeing as the "norm". It seems they all live in fear of a few. throughout all of history and countlesss countries have fallen at the hands of people tired of being repressed. the modern world understands this and actually now days it keeps governments in check. It's time, after centuries of this kind of rule, the people of islam stand for what they truly believe. that is if it really is much different than what we see all over the news.

Mike, Lehi, Ut

Now i know how difficult Musharrafs life is.

Anwar, Beaumont, TX

This is a serious threat to the Musharref regime. If the radicals are able to control the streets of Islamabad, they can control the country. The government has also been unable to confront radicals in Western Pakistan and now appears weak in the capital city. The specter of radicals getting their hands on Pakistan's Nuclear weapons is real.

Roger, San Diego, CA

I was distressed to read the comments of Mary Flagstaffand Mark Borofsky, because both of them have missed the point. Instead of commenting on the actions of few they decided to attack Islam.
Mark asserts that Islam discriminates against women, and of people of other faiths. Yet he seems to forget that Islam was the first religion to have given women the right to property and a say in their choice of marriage and gave them right to divorce. In Spain under the Muslem rule Christians and Jews lived happily for over 700 years, but when the Christians reconquered Spain. They will not tolerant, the Muslims and Jews were given a stark choice to leave their land or converted to Christianity.
My sympathies are with Ms Bakthiar and I am against the custodians of this kind of perverted Islam. It is not Islam, that is in the dock, but the government of President Musharraf. Musharraf who preaches enlightened Islam should have extended the government 's writ to this mosque.

Akram Malik, Gympie, Queensland/Australia

Maybe Maulana Abdul Aziz and his brother just need a hug...

TJ, Albuquerque, NM, USA

This is so sad. Women are being treated as if they are less human and I do not understand this. This is a good woman doing good things. I have a hard time with this religion because people use this religion for their own thinking and I do not understand why people do not see this.

Pamela Kehlet, Vallejo, CA

It's bad. Pakistanis should try to understand that religion and government cannot run side by side. They are two different entities. In the beginning of his rule, the General tried to follow secular philosophy by projecting Attaturk as his model and by putting up the idea of and tried to follow the path of moderation and enlightenment but it seems that he has bowed down under pressure of hardline clerics and religious fanatics.

Shiraz , Karlskrona, Sweden

And this nation, thanks to Abdul Qadeer Khan (AQ Khan) has a nuclear arsenal, the first Islamic bomb. We all have to take “this nation”, and all nations seriously that have the ability, desire, and want to have, own, poses a nuclear weapon.

Scott D, cincinnati, OH

if musharraf wants to stay in my good books - ansd i still think he is the best leader for pakistan - he will not accept this ministers resignation and will take action against the self serving extremists bringing ruin to the nation.

If he doesn't then i believe musharraf should move aside and let others to the job of defeating extremism.

abdul basit, London, UK

God help us....God help Hollywood.

John McCulloough, Easton, USA/PA

My sympathy goes out not to Ms. Bakhtiar but to the clerics who insisted on her resignation. I feel sadness for them to use their religion and beliefs to try and control what frightens them. I do not want any middle eastern country to become "westernized." If I were to ever visit another country I would want to see its very own culture and not that of the USA. As a Catholic, my religion's history is filled with greed for power and and it too called for the deaths of hundreds perhaps thousands of people just because they defied the Pope. Unfortunately, in this day and age, people in Pakistan are still being ruled by the back- hand of so called "religion." I don't think I will ever understand why in the middle east, religion is not celebrated. It's more of a yoke hanging around the neck of its people with no key to ever unlock it.

Susan B. Clark, Bartlesville, OK

Nilofar - we'll have you - you can make as many tandem jumps as you want and hug as many people as you want without fear. Do we need to be reminded again that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and that for tyranny to prevail it only takes good people to remain silent.

Chie, Tokyo, Japan

Don't hold the religion responsible due to the misdeeds of some crazy fanatics who think they are the flag bearers of Islam. Every religion is great in its own right. Only the followers mess it up.

Allero, san diego, USA

Wonder if Cindy Sheehan has read this, if she was in pakiston, iran, or syria or any other Islamic Theocracy she would not have a protected right to protest. Yes the west has problems but our women have the right to exist outside a cloak of black cloth. This is why American and its allies should not leave iraq or afganistan. Not until the people are strong enough to stand against dictators and bullies who hide behind God.

scott, springdale ,

This is insane. Ms. Bakhtiar was doing a good thing for the people of her country. Perhaps giving the instructor a hug afterward was a bit of adrenalin and gratitude for being back safely on the earth rather plunging toward it! She has been unfairly targeted for no valid reason. We are constantly told that the majority of Muslims are not radical and do not hold such irrational views. Why are they a silent, ineffective majority?

Rosalie, Calgary, Canada

I certainly do not support the extremists that declare these fatwas, because they have used them like pop corn, to their advantage. But I certainly do not approve of Nilofar as well doing the hug. The main reason is that our culture does not permit this kind of public affection. In the western world, the kissing or hugging in public places is common, and that is their culture. The world should respect our culture and stop badgering us, if our culture is different, that is the uniqueness that we offer. WE do not expect people in the US will start playing cricket or field hockey, so please give us a break and let us live like we want to. Do not Police us in every fashion, just because we are different! PLEASE!!!!

Rasheed, Los Angeles, USA

...and just imagine...we consider them an ally in the war against terror. Go figure....

TabascoJax, Jax, FL

Where is the outrage from the liberal left in the US? Oppression at this level howls of need for protest. Where is Rosie’s angst? Here is a real government conspiracy and not one derived from the voices in her head. Where is John Stewart, has he no passion left for injustice in the world or is his ire reserved for only his time zone?

All kidding aside, this is scary stuff. How do you deal with people that are locked into the 14th Century?

Gary Allen, Houston, TX

This is just the begining. These clerics represent a much more dangerous side of this regime. They are going to force their extreme beliefs on people with violence. This is going to result in something bigger and more horific as it unfolds. We should be using the phrase 'BIRTH PANGS'. Any one who follows these events on a daily basis knows what I mean.

Mark T., Grand Island, USA

I congretulate Ms Bakhtiar for doing this adventrous paragliding to help those earth quake victims by fund raising which would help those in need and I also condemn those mullas and thier partners in military establishment for sacking her. Shame on you guys.

ned, galveston, tx,usa

I think that these extremists are perverting Islam with their literal taliban style interpretation of Islamic values. As Muhammad said actions are judged by intentions and most rules in all religions are there to serve a purpose instead of becoming ends in themselves. God gave us free will to choose how we live, he could easily have made us live uniformly, therefore it is not upto these people to impose themselves on others.

While it may be tempting to read such articles and bash Islam, I believe that greater care should be exercised in differentiating between the actions of some idiots and Islamic teachings. If we start to look at fundamentalists from other religions as also belonging to some crazy violence loving religion, we will only be be emulating those very fundamentalists.

hasan, hamilton, ny

Just another example of why democracy is so wonderful/ You would never see this happening in a democratic country. Seperation of Church and State is very important. Our forefathers were very smart and we should be thanking them every day! And to Robin In NM, who cares what the Middle East thinks of us.

Stephen Bear, Long Beach, USA

It's the Dark Ages once again. Ignorance and fear running rampant! MIsdirected religious fervor, the source of all evil? And millions stand by watching!

Ali el Acum, Norwich, CT USA

Doesn't it seem slightly hypocritical to all of you that you are all criticizing their religious beliefs under the guise of "religious freedom"?

If these women are unhappy with the way of things, then let them decide, one of the reasons there is so much bad blood between the US and Islamic states is that we champion "religious freedom" by shoving our cultural beliefs down their throats. There are a good number of people who are quite content with the manner in which things are run in those countries.

Don't forget that we are a nation that has burned a number of people for being "witches". Don't be so quick to cast stones.

Kebo, Jacksonville/Florida,

Isnt murder against the "moral code"??????? A woman politician is murdered for not wearing a veil but murder is okay???? I just DONT GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

e m, campbell ca, usa

Demanding the resignation for a women seen to be hugging someone of the opposite sex (or maybe culture / politics has more to do with it), and shooting a woman for simply not wearing a veil, is alarming, and could not be worse for image of Islam at present.

Jennifer Henry, Yorkshire,

The President of Pakistan would be wise to support people such as Ms. Aziz. The radicals will be coming for him soon enough.

JD Salome, Cape Coral, Florida/ USA

We should find her a fund rasing job here in the states where women are apreciated for what they do for the world. Maybe if we give all the women jobs here there will be no women left to have kids so Pakistan and its stupid religious rules will just fall away and never be heard of again.

Fred Smith, St. Louis, MO

It's just sad. These people need to have some courage and stand up to this kind of tyranny. We can't help them until they decide to help themselves. Same with the situation in Iraq. We can't help them until they decide as a majority to help themselves and fight back. Progress just seems so slow on both these fronts. The government should have stood by here as she did nothing wrong. Instead they cowtowed to a self made and self promoted religious governing body who have no legal jurisdiction. That just really puctuates the sad state of affairs there. They are ruled by fear.

Kat, Draper, UT

she was helping childen!!!! These men that are cleric need to have thier head examined!!!

Dan, Kula, Hawaii

You know what is so funny? They get upset with her for hugging the instructor, but they did not seem to have a prblem with her jumping from the plane in a "tandom" jump; meaning she was as close and snuggled to him from behind than the frontal embrace we see in the picture.

When is the WORLD going to realize that Islam for all practical purposes is not a peaceful religion, it is evil, it does discriminate against women and people of other faith and it is totalterian. And Rosie O'Donnell compared Christianty to this.

Mark Borofsky, United States

Mark, Wichita, USA

If it were not for this story being totally serious, I would still be laughing. I am outraged by the treatment of this fine woman who took the time to care and to raise money for orphaned children. Apparently, a platonic hug overshadowed, not to mention undermined her purpose to aid these children. She should be COMMENDED for what she was attempting to do for these orphaned children, not punished for an innocent show of affection.

Concerned for Human Rights, columbus, USA

there's no hope for any of us, this sounds like the religious crazyness that went on in this country, USA, in times past, I'm not sure we will survive this.

wilson scott, Norman, usa/ok

Can't imagine what the Pakistani clericks think of our Miss Hilton and Miss Spears..... based on this story, I'm sure they damage our "global reputation" with the Middle East far more than anything the Bush Administration does.

Robin B., Albuquerque, nm

What a joke. How can we possibly take nations where this sort of thing happens seriously? It's very sad that normal well-adjusted people (as Ms Bakhtiar seems to be) can be fired as a result of openly showing happiness - and all because a religious cleric deems her deeds inappropriate. It's a sad day for Pakistan as it only reinforces the belief of many in the west that muslim countries are backward, primitive, and sexist.

Mark Bollobas, Memphis, TN, USA

How can a country progress in any way if the likes of Maulana Abdul Aziz and his brother are given the power to force their extremist beliefs on the people of Pakistan? I admire Nilofar Bakhtiar for her brave stand against such people but what a pity it is that she was not congratulated for her fundraising attempt.
It is a shame that the hug was publicized and given more media attention than the funds she raised and the courageous sky dive. I'd like to see Mr Abdur Rashid Ghazi try pulling off a parachute jump without reaching out to his instructor for a comforting hug!

Sheikha SS, Dubai, United Arab Emirates,