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Read Libby Purves on the Hindu controversy on the Faith Central blog
Thousands of furious Hindus took to the streets after the Indian Government claimed that the epic that forms the cornerstone of their religious beliefs was a work of fiction.
Police used teargas to disperse crowds in the central state of Madhya Pradesh, where protesters accused the Government of blasphemy.
The row erupted when the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI), an arm of the Culture Ministry, told the country’s highest court that there was no evidence to support the existence of the characters in the Ramayana, a revered ancient text. Nor was there any historical record that Lord Ram, one of Hinduism’s most popular heroes, was a real person or that any of the events in the epic took place.
The highly controversial claim formed part of statements submitted to the court in support of a plan to dredge a channel between India and Sri Lanka that would allow cargo ships a faster route around the tip of the sub-continent, cutting 36 hours off a typical passage.
Many Hindus oppose the £250 million scheme because the proposed shipping lane would demolish a submerged stretch of limestone shoals that Hindus believe was constructed by Lord Ram to rescue his kidnapped wife, Sita. They want the Ram Setu to be declared an ancient protected monument. The controversy over the fate of Ram Setu – Adam’s Bridge as it is known to nonbelievers – has dragged on for years, but is reaching a climax.
The court has allowed dredging work to continue but will consider at a hearing today whether the bridge can be touched. C. Dorjee, the monuments director of the ASI, said in the 400-page affidavit: “The issue has to be approached in a scientific manner . . . [it] cannot be viewed solely relying on the contents of a mythological text.”
The “blasphemous” statements were seized on by the opposition Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), whose supporters blockaded roads. It accused the Congress-led Government of “assaulting” Hindu sentiments.
“The Government has set in motion the process of questioning religious beliefs. We will launch a nationwide movement if it does not withdraw immediately this blasphemous submission questioning the very existence of Lord Ram,” Rajnath Singh, the BJP president, said.
Historians and scientists have long disputed the legitimacy of Ram Setu and have questioned the authenticity of the Ramayana, considered to be set 1.7 million years ago, and its original author, Valmiki. Geologists consider the bridge to be only 5,000 to 7,000 years old.
“Belief has to be separated from historical facts,” T. K. Venkatasubramaniam, professor of history at Delhi University, said. “Ram Setu has gotten into the culture and psyche. Even in the 21st century it is very difficult to come out of that belief.”
Keeping the faith
— The construction of a bridge from Goolwa to Hindmarsh Island in the Murray River estuary, South Australia, was halted in 1994 after a local tribe of Aborigines claimed that the island was sacred to them for reasons that they refused to reveal. A year later other Aborigines went public with accusations that the objections of the tribe were a hoax, and the construction of the bridge was reauthorised by the Government.
— In northern Arizona this year a consortium of Native American tribes successfully blocked the expansion of a ski resort that lay well outside their tribal borders. They claimed that the use of wastewater in snow making machines would desecrate peaks that they hold sacred
Source: Times archive; New York Times
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Hindduism is not a practising religion like Christianity or Islam. It is more of a life philosophy for communal harmony, and doing ones duty.
The epics are part of the Indian ethos as also of whole of SE Asia. One does not ask for scientific proof of Chirst being born to a virgin, being crufied or ressucsiation.
On the Ram Setu, there are various issues, environmental as well as Economical. Nobody has assesed the environmental impact of the breaking open the rock formationto allow the two seas to meet.
On the economical issues the dredging will allow only ships upto 35000 DWT to pass and that to at great cost. Today shipping lines use larger ships for international trade. So it will not hep large ships at all. Will the high cost of dredging and keeping the way open by frequent dredging for only small ships justify the risk of Environmental impact??
A lot is being said for and againg religions WO going into the real issue.
M L Agarwal, Hyderabad,
Culture and cultural heritage are living monuments to human history. Not all heritages can be proven by so-called modern science. That does not mean we give away them. And so-called modern science is not a yardstick to measure the past and future. Do we spit on our ancestors if they had eaten animals like dogs, cats, insects, fellow human beings, wild grasses etc? That was another time, we must realise and respect. Because of them, we are today. And because of us, there will be future generations.
Those who goes after so-called scientific evidence to everything, first try to understand themselves. How much so-called modern science understands the mystery behind this cosmos, behind our human body? Heritage must be preserved, for the continuation of human civilization. Else, we would not be different than animals. Rama Setu, be it man-made or natural, its a part of Hindu-Indian heritage for thousands of years. No development at the cost of destroying heritage.
Bharat, Delhi, India
The Ramayana is a chinese whisper that is so old it dates back almost to Noah. It has changed from the ancient things that were recorded as heiroglyphs in the constellations of the zodiac which used to be (and still is) the "Bow" of the Hebrew Genesis. Trouble is, christian and Jewish priests today talk all that mumbo-jumbo about a water flood killing everyone, but the truth is that the flood was a flood of God's word that drowned out all the existing religions at the time except Noah's Hebrew faith which was true to the word.
Come on now, wise up, 'brahmin' is derived from 'Abraham', and 'Shiva' is derived from the Hebrew 'Chavah' for 'Eve' meaning 'the source of life'. The Hindu faith has a name in God's eyes, he is 'Ishmael', Abraham's son by Hagar.
Read the Ramayana and see, the Hindu's have turned the Hebrew persona's of the Bible into individual 'gods' through the ravages of Chinese whispers of men who did not understand. Ravenna has ten heads just like Daniel's beast has.
Ian , London ,
Whatever you believe, India is a democracy - fact.
Also India is predominantly devoutly Hindu - fact.
Therefore, if Democracy is truly "goverment of the people, for the people, and by the people, then don't do what the people don't want.
That's the trouble with atheists and tyrants incumbent - no respect for anyone but themselves.
Ian , London ,
Since the water is shallow enough to require dredging for large vessels, it would imply a depth of less than 50 meters. Sea levels about 10,000 years ago were lower than that. Seismic activity could also have resulted in land lowering. There is a very real possibility that the bridge existed and was incorporated into verbal tradition and religious writings. This appears to be another example of corrupt politicians destroying a tradional or historic item for the benfit of few profiteers. It too often happens here in the US.
Phil, Fredericksburg, Virginia, USA
I think that it is absurd that the government would even do such a thing. The government should all-in-all be supporting the commonfolk, not trying to tear down their traditions.
Mahaveera, chennai,
"All religious beliefs are ridiculous and absurd and cannot stand up to proper analysis thus believers have to resort to calls of heresy and blasphemy to silence the voice of reason. "
My My aren't you the sensitive one? Try that rational with the love filled Muslum followers of Muhammad and you'll find your head no longer attached to your body.
A word to the wise is sufficient.
Oamar Cameltoe, Lake Havasu, USA
Of course yes lets just rubbish those who hold different views of the world shall.And why should people not believe in fairies and other myths?How many non religious people out their who rubbish this sort of thing have some sort of obsession for something.What about football. Thats a religion to some people. What would be the out cry if football stadiums were bulldozed.Yes their are extremists out there in everything not just religions.This world would be a boring place if we did'nt have so many different belief sytems with their accompanying myths legends and stories.And besides how do the archaeologists know that the charactors in the Ramayana did not exist.These stories could well have basis in fact .They just have been embelished over the years.As for the dreging it could well be harmful to the environment.This just sounds like the Indian government trying to find excuses to get a contoversial scheme the go ahead despite the environmental and sacred nature of this site.
Morrigan, Cardiff,
Upon proof of false beliefs, one must rethink their lives. Upon suggestion of false beliefs, one must rethink their own foundation. Upon what do you build your beliefs? If you can get down to the bottom of where it all came from, then what? Time before time?
The unanswerable questions point us all toward the struggle with human logic and the unimaginable, this is called human reason. I've failed myself too many times to count my own knowledge as infalliable. And others have failed me even more so. Search deeper and be open to that which is the most compelling. I, it seems, have found that in the God of the christian Bible, not the God of christian pop-theology.
Jason Angello, Pittsburgh, PA - USA
There is one religious system that is not at odds with honestly done science, Judeo-Christianity. There are MANY scientific and archaeological discoveries too numerous to go into here, from 1.) the discovery that Ur of the Chaldees and the Hittite Empire were real places and not "fairly tale" lands, as Bible-bashers used to call them, to 2.) Dr. Michael Behe and Dr. Fred Seelke's genetics work with DNA information systems and what REALLY can and can't happen with random selection as an evolutionary agent.
I am a biochemist and used to buy into evolution because that's what I'd been taught. Those brave enough to approach the facts with unadulterated logic find a very different story.
Jon Klement, St. Charles, MO
Hinduism = religeon based on a fairy tale. A equivalent would be to worship Harry Potter! (I am a Hindu by the way)
Ramprakash, Madrid, Spain
The obvious needs to be reminded:
Though the Vatican was not built by Jesus and Mohammed did not build the Dome of the Rock on Temple Mount, it is important to stress that these sites are phenomenal physical records of Christian and Islamic material cultures and artistic production. Therefore, they hold a global relevance and deserve protection.
Hindus claim -a submerged limestone shoals were constructed by Ram. Nonsense. Credit must go to Mother Nature. If there was a temple or religious site that had been present at the site for thousands of years, then its protection would be a debatable option. In this case, it must be abandoned in favour of clear thinking ways.
Khuroum, London,
The Ramayana may be literature for a lot of people, but it is also a sacred religious text for millions of Hindus around the world. The Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) went beyond its remit â which was NOT to authenticate a religious text, but to establish whether or not the limestone below the waters separating India from Sri Lanka were man-made structures, belonging to antiquity, and therefore a monument worthy of preservation by the ASI. Presumably, as professional archaeologists they have the scientific tools to establish the provenance of a structure; but I doubt this organization has sufficient knowledge of literary texts, sacred scriptures, and how to separate myth from facts in an ancient book. In any event, it violates India's secular Constitution for a Government agency to pontificate on matters of religion.
Joe Cleetus, Fort Kochi, Kerala, India
An expressway over those sites would get my vote.
clint walsh, geelong, australia
The 5000 or 700 year dating of Ramayana, if done, validates Ramayan. This date too is debatable since Hindu system clearly talks about yuga and does not fit in in the scale presented. By the by, have you corrected the biblical absurdities like earth being flat ( for which poor Copurnicus lost his life) or story of Adam & Eve.
c.p. Murthy, Hyderabad, India
Why cann't we as society respect the beliefs of other people. Why must every religious argument start with a denunciation of religion as a myth by someone. Whether you believe or not, other people do, and their beliefs deserve respect, just as your dis-belief does. Neither should be forced on anyone, but respected by all.
Michael Gray, Pontotoc, MS/USA
Actually I would build those things (an expressway under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem or the Vatican in Rome) if they were needed. All religious belief is based on faith, which is itself a conviction on the veracity of a claim when you have no supporting evidence. If I were to claim as a religious belief the eating humans is good for me and is the command of some deity would you support my right to do so merely because I believe it to be right? Or would you show me, scientifically, that human meat is no different to animal meat in terms of nutrition and argue that this deity I am following is "evil" (whatever that really means)?
, Reading, UK
I fully agree with Mr. Livingston, and I'd like to add that having a scientific education myself, I must say that we cannot let scientific facts get in the way of what we believe to be moral, ethical, or for that matter beautiful. We regularly spare natural formations from exploitation based on aesthetics alone, and religious considerations should not be considered less valid.
mats andersson, stockholm, sweden
I don't know what to think about any of the holy books of the world. I don't care whether any of the people in them were real or not. It is like reading poems, and it does good. This was handed down from person to person, sung or spoken until somebody learned how to write. How good is that!! They didn't have books or movies or television. They had their poets and they looked up at the stars! I wish everybody would just leave the poets alone! I have to write a school paper on something I chose. I chose about Rama and Sita. I know they would be amazed to see what all we have today. Sita would like washing machines and all the conveniences. Rama would like football.
Mary Margaret , Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
I will be happy to go with the Ramayana is a fiction statement if the government of India and the state government of Tamil Nadu have the guts to make similar statements about other religions. The DMK members are notorious for their one sided rationality. Of course UK papers have an opportunity to mention "fundamentalist Hindu nationalist" to compensate for the unavoidable need to mention islamic terrorism in the west.
Lakshmi, Oxford,
But are *all* religious beliefs myths and absurd? Oftentimes, when people make assertions like this, they haven't really done their homework to justify their philosophical viewpoint. Seems like the best thing to do is consider the evidence for each belief system (or at least the major ones) in turn.
E.g., Jesus of Nazareth was a real person, by most all accounts. He was even more than that, by many accounts. Seems like a reasonable thing to investigate. There are lots of books on the historicity of Christianity. You might consider reading one.
How we should live in this life and what happens after this life seem like the most important questions humans are faced with. Most people have upwards of 80 years to figure things out. What have you got to lose in reading a few books?
Or maybe you don't like Christians, and think the endeavor a waste of time. Some Christians are stupid, but so are some non-Christians. The question is: is Christianity stupid?
Cliff Mather, Pittsboro, NC / USA
Money is the new religion for the Indian government. The concern for the destruction is not only religious but also the vast environmental damage by dredging. All religions have elements of fact and fiction, and none would 100% stand up to scientific scrutiny. But science itself is not fool-proof. And if you go by William Dalyrmple's 'The Last Mughal' where evidence of 1857 documents have not been touched by Indian historians - or - Michael Wood's 'The Story of India' which for political reasons the Indian scientists and historians would not touch, the ability and even -handedness of Indian scientists is questionable.
Raju Kumar, Stavanger, Norway
The Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) is not a part of the culture ministry as reported.
The opposition is not solely based on myth of religion. In India's race to become a superpower there are are grave environmental dangers and many fishermen whose livelihood may be in peril as an outcome of this project. Many civil society and environmentalists are opposing this project. The reasons thus are not purely religious.
A.V.Raman, Coventry, UK
When will the interests of commerce take into account beliefs of millions of people. Wether the beliefs are 'true' or not the sentiments of so many people should be WORTH something
In the last 100 years we have destroyed and changed so many things that have stood splendid for thousands of years its time check how much 'progess' we are making for our childrens sake.
Bindu, London,
Faith is a part of human subculture. These faith or believe protests will be with us till eternity,unless, humanity is educated to Stephen Hawking or Richard Dawkings level. if that is not possible, at least to my level of base minimum,which have helped me to live a very healthy, secular,religion free life in my new adopted land.
Muhammed Shafiq, manchester, u.k
I think that scientists should test it from outside the country as well a group from different parts of world to actually test, so no bias, and also to make sure the scientists are atheist hehe just to make sure, and then see if they come up with the same results as indian government. better still the government shouldve dredged without asking, and sold off the sacred sand:-) But, to be serious, if the belief is so strong, they will have to weigh the internal upheavals which may be caused by dredgeing, or not dredging!!
jon rose, torrington, uk
Well, this wole thing became exciting in 2002 when the big nasa scientists announced they had studied with their satelites an under water bridge right where rama's bridge is suppossed to have been. They determined it was man-made and extraordinary. The worshipers of Lord Rama rejoiced that He was given some logical scientific validity by the bonified and authorized big scientists. Sorry, but modern science has declared so you must accept it.
brahmabhuta dasa, new york, NY
''Well, would you build an expressway under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem or the Vatican in Rome? ''
Yes, I would. I don't believe in fairies or that people who do should be treated with exaggerated respect.
Keith Daborn, Zurich, Switzerland
All religious beliefs are ridiculous and absurd and cannot stand up to proper analysis thus believers have to resort to calls of heresy and blasphemy to silence the voice of reason. It's a tired and predictable tactic. This is the 21st century. Isn't it time we grew up and stopped believing in fairies and other myths?
Paul Owen, Birmingham , Uk
The bridge has historical value even though it was built 5000 to 7000 years ago if not 1.7 million years ago. Whether Ram or Ramayan if fiction or fact, it is a tool for Hindu upper class to control over lower class. Ramayan or Mahabharat, the message it gives is bramhins are superior to others. And the modern brahmins are still using it as weapon. This is the fact.
Rakesh, Beijing, China
Well, would you build an expressway under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem or the Vatican in Rome? I don't see how one religious belief is more or less "scientific" than another. The question is how deeply held the belief and is there an alternate way to accomplish the goal.
michael livingston, cheltenham, pa usa