Kenneth Denby in Rangoon
2 for 1 tickets to Singin' In The Rain, this coming Monday. Book now

Video: Japanese journalist "shot deliberately"
Pictures: death of a Japanese journalist
Burma’s generals silenced the Buddhist monks yesterday morning.
For a week and a half, the monks had been on the streets of Rangoon in their tens of thousands, and their angry calm gave courage to the people around them.
But overnight, they were beaten, shot and arrested, and locked in their monasteries. Handfuls of them emerged yesterday – two or three brave individuals, a dozen at most – but nothing to approach the mass marches of the previous nine days. Everyone felt their absence.
You could see it in the faces of the civilian demonstrators who took to the streets anyway, in defiance of the official warnings.
You could see it too in the swagger of the riot police, banging their batons menacingly on their shields as they advanced.
The monks were moral shields; without them the marchers had lost a lucky charm. They felt less like crusaders for justice and more like what they resembled – scared, angry kids in T-shirts facing well-drilled troops with automatic weapons.
They stood their ground as long as they dared, too long for some of them. At least nine people were killed, according to patchy reports, and eleven others injured. The dead included a Japanese photographer.
So far, though, this does not yet appear to be a repeat of the massacres of 1988, when 3,000 were mown down on the streets. The junta is showing patience and restraint, it is plotting its moves step by step, and it is displaying a subtle and malignant cunning.
In the Mwe Kya Kan pagoda in the South Okkala district of Rangoon, it began at 2am, but seven hours later the evidence was plain to see – a dozen thick patches of congealing blood and human tissue splashed about the yard. The windows of the monks’ dormitories were smashed jaggedly by the impact of rubber bullets – hard, round spheres fired from green cartridges that the monks had carefully gathered up and put on display.
Inside everything had been smashed – the thin plywood walls, the monks’ plaster statues of the Buddha – and the thin mattresses were soaked with blood.
“We had to flee for our lives into the neighbourhood,” said a small bespectacled young man named Ashin Thu, one of the few monks to have evaded arrest. “A family let me hide in one of their houses, I was so scared.”
The bullets may have been rubber, but at close range they can still do great damage. Seventy monks were driven away bleeding in 24 military vehicles and, to judge from the pools of blood in the yard, several of them were gravely injured.
Most outrageous of all, in the eyes of the survivors, was the theft that the soldiers had carried out. They took money from locked boxes and carried off a gold statue and a hoard of golden rings. And so it becomes clear why the Government has imposed an eight-hour overnight curfew. It was not to protect the city from “terrorists”, but to prevent its citizens bearing witness to its own crimes.
Similar raids – with beatings, terror and arrests – were reported in at least three other monasteries. Several senior members of the National League for Democracy (NLD), the political party of the Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Aung San Suu Kyi, were also rounded up overnight.
At 9am yesterday I had an appointment to meet U Myint Thein, the gracious and gentlemanly spokesman of the NLD. But U Myint Thein was otherwise engaged – in the headquarters of the police special branch, who took him away from his home in the middle of the night.
By the afternoon, there were troops stationed in monasteries all over the city. For Buddhists, there is an element of sacrilege in this, as well as simple bad manners. These were men of violence, fresh from acts of violence, who were imposing themselves on places dedicated to peace. At Moe Kaung Pagoda, the olive-uniformed troops wore red kerchiefs around their necks. It is the belief of many of the demonstrators that this is a sign that they are permitted to shoot to kill. But the killing was to take place elsewhere, on the road that leads south towards the Sule Pagoda, the second-most famous in Rangoon after the mighty golden Shwedagon. By noon, thousands of people had gathered at a crossroads which had been sealed off by soldiers, riot police and barbed wire barricades.
Around 1pm the police began moving forward, and the soldiers followed. Warnings were issued through loud-speakers on the roofs of vans.
Then, amid impenetrable confusion, shots were fired, as well as smoke grenades. It would be inconsistent with the behaviour of the security forces during the rest of the day if these had been live rounds, aimed to kill. But one man, apparently a photographer, was seen by witnesses to drop suddenly, as if shot. His limp body was lifted on to a military truck and carried away.
The crowd scattered and ran to reform a few hundred yards up the road. Banging their shields, the riot police advanced again with the loud-speaker van behind them.
The message was both crude and courteous. It included an honorific form of the Burmese word for “you”, and might be translated like this: “Good sirs, please leave the area or we will open fire in ten minutes time.”
No one had difficulty believing this and with oaths and screams of rage (one man lifted up his traditional longyi skirt to present a full moon to the forces of the junta), the protesters moved back, and back, and back again.
Late in the afternoon, shots were heard from the streets to the east of the pagoda. But by that stage none of the small corps of foreign diplomats, reporters and photographers following the demonstrations felt much like going out to have a look.
There are so many heartbreaking things about what is going in Burma, but for a foreigner one of the hardest to bear is the optimism. There are few foreign journalists here, but people treat them as saviours, encouraging them to get the story and the pictures out, with a touching faith that it will make a difference.
“Tell them to send foreign troops, UN troops,” said a young monk at the Mwe Kya Kan pagoda. “Please, fly them to our country to save our lives.”
An American in Rangoon told me yesterday about an opinion poll carried out on Burmese attitudes to US foreign policy.
“Like most people, they thought that it sucks,” he told me. “But not for the usual reason. Burmese wanted to know why George Bush hasn’t invaded their country yet.”
A boy named Raphael came up to practise his English, as the crowd screamed at the soldiers, and asked for my address so that he could visit me one day. A very small and old but irrepressibly vigorous white-haired man took my hand and led me to safety when he thought that I was too close to the trouble. “I am a teacher,” he said proudly. “PhD!”
Small, human encounters – and yet in these dark circumstances they become almost unbearably poignant. They are based on a very questionable assumption: that the people of Burma are going to be saved.
I wish that I could have told the monk, and the boy and the old man, that I believed everything would be well and that soon they could expect the basic decency from their Government that so many of us take for granted. Nothing is settled, of course, and the future is impossible to read – but on the basis of what I saw yesterday the Burmese junta is winning.
Actually, I am all FOR the wars we've fought, and would've won (including Vietnam if not for the anti-American fifth column and communist sypathizers). I am wondering, if the U.S. is so evil, where the United Nations is here or in Darfur? Seems to me, all they've accomplished is the oil-for-kickbacks scandal, the food-for-sex scandal, and inaction anywhere they're needed. Oh, and they were out of town (from their headquarters in NYC) for a blisteringly cold Fall day for one of their environment-destroying global warming parties.
I don't really check this thread, but feel free to call the U.N. to see where exactly they've dropped their loaner blue-helmet soldiers.
Mark Paquette, Jersey City, NJ
unfortunatly we can not simply cut off foreign aid to tyrannical military dictatorships inorder to stop violence. what you must keep in mind is that the first to start would be those that the military junta already perceaves as "subhuman" rather than the generals and commanders that commit such injustices. the monks diet has been reduced to one ration of alms a day. as we speak conditions for them are worsening. the only true way to help the situation is to provide the people of myanmar the tools nessesary to use their voice. this good will will not only allow them to bring light to the criminal acts enected upon them and the people of their country, but also ensure that if a revolution does occur we would have created another world state born under the same values of liberty and freedom as us
CRISIS, GARY, INDIANA
I have no confidence in any government that says it wants to stop the current Burmese governments treatment of protestors.
The arms that the Burmese government uses to kill their own people were sold to them by OUR governments or with our governments licence.
A simple method of resolving the problem is to cut off Burma completely.
Nothing in or out until the military regime collapses.
its actually quite easy to do, sadly Politicians from all nations have not the Spine to move on this.
We live with the people we elect.
Michael Wilkinson, Telford, Shropshire in the UK
Jed
Thankyou Jed. Very well said!
Buying Chineses goods is just adding fuel to the fire. We can all help if we buy our goods judiciously. Think of the impact on global warming too. Undermine China's econmomy and you undermine the power they think they have. For too long the Chinese have been allowed to get away with atrocities by glibly telling the world it is not happening. IT IS! China will stonewall any UN sanctions because of it's own interests in Asia. The Monks and goodhearted people of Burma will get no help from the Chinese government. Mao Tse Tung told HH The Dalai Lama of Tibet "Religion is Poison" back in the 1950's. The Chinese Government have not changed their stance, and any movement towards religious freedom in China is purely on the basis of token gestures to appease their Western trading partners and in the case of the monastic centres in Asia to encourage commercial gain from tourism. China looks after China's interests only.
Wendy, Hull, UK
If the courageous Liberals of America will cut and run from Iraq, why would anybody anywhere expect them to stand firm against any evil, oh yeah, that's right, Bush is evil, Cheney is Darth Vader, Che Guevara was a saint, and Socialism will save the world. There is no wrong in protecting your interests in this world, and the U.N. only represents the corrupt tyrants of Socialism who seek to overthrow the West.
davecatbone, Cincinnati, OH
Isn't it curious that despite how the liberal propaganda paints us as hated by the world, the oppressed in the world still pray everyday for us to intervene. We should, but this generation of Americans (other than the patriots that joined the volunteer military) have no desire to sacrifice anything to help others attain freedom.
Malcolm, Newcomerstown, OH
We all know that acts of such a despicable nature will be ignored unless the people of the civilized world show that they care. Our governments care about one other thing besides oil: votes. Too many people these days aren't even registered. Most of those people are the ones that care about horrific acts of genocide and extreme bigotry can't do anything about our leaders because of just that fact, they don't/can't vote. Get out and get registered. Big Brother will pay attention if their jobs are on the line.
TrevorK, Alma, MI
Sure...when the US and UK don't step in we are selfish jerks. When we do step in we're the police of the world. It's a lose lose situation. What the hell is every other country in the world doing? Oh yea...sitting on their pen and rotating.
Danny, Maine, USA
Freedom is not free! When the citizens in the US wanted freedom from England, they had to fight and die for it, Freedom was not granted and negotiations did not work. Burma was part of the Commonwealth, and should have been better prepared for their independence than they were. I don't believe the US was directly involved in that other than to have pushed the UK to give up its empire after the end of WWII.
"Oslevo-Taiwan" . If you know anything about your national history, you should realize that were it not for the US, you would already have been invaded and under Chinese control. And you do not have natural resources to include oil, that gave us reason to protect you. The Chinese acction in Burma can be better understood in terms that they find it easier to deal with dictatorships than democracies.
Lets leave the olympics alone, it is too old of an institution to inject politics into. US President Jimmy Carter did that with the Soviet Union over Afghanistan.
Richard Syye, Carriere, USA
Mark, aside from the obvious fact that getting involved in Iraq has left the US and UK (AND Denmark, Spain, Italy, Japan etc. etc.) extremely averse to interventionist tactics, if you merely bother to look at the amount of aid that the UK government pumps out to developing nations you would be forced to retract that fatuous remark. Now is not the time for cynicism - get real and stop banging the same old "oil" drum.
fergus, london, UK
Dear MarkS,
The U.N. only acts for oil as well?
Mark Paquette, Jersey City, USA
No. It will not be the end for the generals. The rest of the world is just looking on. To ask China AND India to act in respect of Burma is to ensure that they will not act. The two can rarely agree on anything. How can they agree on a country in which their interests overlap? The UNSC is paralysed by the great champions of 'national sovereignty' - China and Russia. The sovereignty of Burma must not be violated. The SC will not act. The P-5 will not lift a little finger. China will not let India act. For an ordinary citizen of common prudence it is simple enough for a country of the resources of China or India to walk in and require the generals to pack up and let Aung San Suu Kyi take over - proper result of a general election held so long ago. But neither China nor India will move. ASEAN possibly cannot act. Who will come to the help of the hapless monks and other Burmese? Perhaps no one. That great votary of freedom and democracy - George Bush - will do nothing.
V. C. Bhutani, Delhi, India
China's need for natural resources and its growing dependency on energy imports has led to a blind eye of this neighbor's injustice. I holy support boycotting the Chinese Olympics, I won't even watch it on TV. The New Champions of the world should step up and make a social difference, where are they? No where, because even to them money is king. In the end it is people fighting for their freedom who win, and this is not to say the Monks can't fight, they must be more creative, and use some of the examples from their proud past.
Prior Quigley, Austin, TX, US
I totally agree with you Tenzin. The majority of Burmese people are polite, kind and peace loving. People are being bullied, beaten, raped, imprisoned and killed by the brutal Military regieme since 1962 when they took over the power.
The regieme is so effective, ruthless and controlled everything in the country. It is equivalent to Mafia Gang terrorizing 55 millions innocent people. They kept the country in poverty and the only way to survive in Burma is to join the Gang(Army) ,or to kiss the Generals' A#$.
Fighting back by the ordinary people against the organized Gang(Army) is out of the question unless you are ready to fight bare hands against automatic assault rifles. Any military ranks including Generals who sympathized and got popular with the people were sacked, kicked out from the Gang(Army) or put in jail.
If you have a HEART, you know what is wrong and what is right. Please have mercy on those innocent people. My heart and prayers are with you Burmese people.
Soe Nyunt, Primghar, Iowa, USA
Guess again! South Korea's Daewoo operates Myanmar's large A-1 and A-3 natural gas fields, South Korea's largest overseas energy project, which hold 4.53-7.74 trillion cubic feet of recoverable reserves. see Reuters's article:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=companyNews&storyid=47742+28-Sep-2007+RTRS&WTmodLoc=BizArt-L1-CompanyNews-2.
It seems no-one is aware of new inventions that make all of these energy projects obsolete. See "Salt Water as fuel? Erie man hopes so: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm. There is another invention dating back to 1993. It was such perfect that inventor one day hears knock on his door, and when he opened door was met with shotgun blast to his face. His son gave away the rights and is now a free patent, as a present in the Year 2000 celebration. But that's another story. All the best,
Starlady, Wayne, USA / NJ
At the risk of sounding simple i dont grasp how people can allow these atrocities to continue. Yes no one can stop all of the enemies and conflicts but to let this carry on with out any attempt at help is inexcuseable. Lets not concentrate on whose closest and how much money things are going to cost for a change. Why cant we just offer and give our support where human lives are being destroyed.
Jessica Louis, Doncaster,
It is with a heavy heart that I plead for the people of Burma. I truly hope that they will succeed in bringing an honest government to their country. This will not happen until the troops stop supporting their leaders and realise that they are harming their own brothers and sisters. The road to democracy is covered with the blood of innocents, but this blood should not be shed by the US or any other foreign government.
Jason, Kansas City, MO
Always amazing to see how naive westerners are. Filled with self-imposed guilt, they think that if only Bush would act, or the UN, everything would be ok.....
In truth, only India and China really have any serious influence in this part of the world. Get them to start acting and the situation will improve. If not, look for more of the same.
Reinhard, Wisconsin, US
WOW,
All these people from around the world simultaneously insulting US citizens while suggesting that we send our Sons and Daughters into battle to get killed, maimed, and tortured to help people who were probably cursing our existence before they fell under the boot of oppression. And the real irony is that nearly all of the free people around the world would be living under some hideous form of dictatorship or be enslaved were it not for the blood of US, UK, and Australian soldiers.
Ah... how history repeats itself. Those that mock us, do not change who we are, but only reveal who they are.
For my part, I agree with GW's foreign policy and I would form a coalition of the "willing" to go into Burma to throw out the corrupt regime. Only this time the US would provide money, weapons, and air cover, while all our "willing" coalition partners could provide THEIR Sons and Daughters to fight on the front lines. I will not mock them if they make a mistake on the battle field.
Gary, Lake Forest, Illinois
no, it is not possible to talk with them ...why? because they are arrogant misled souls who truly believe that what they dictate is the right way and nothing else matters.........
my prayers are with the monks and the people who have stood side by side with them........
a travesty
michele, Pinehurst, NC
Bringing up the American Revolution is fundamentally flawed for a couple of reasons. First, the technological gap between the people and the government has grown exponentially. In the 1780's, everyone basically had muskets and bayonets. Maybe the British had more cannons, but they weren't beyond the capabilities of the colonists to make. Both sides were essentially on the same level. Now? Could someone lend me a squadron of fighter bombers? No? Weird. How bout a couple of heavy artillery pieces loaded up with chemical weapons? Not that either, huh? Guess things have changed some.
Two, we didn't go it alone. We had material and strategic support from England's long time archrival, France, plus other European powers. They sent soldiers and weapons to aid the fight. The French fleet kept Cornwallis from escaping Yorktown, and helped end the war.
My point is: singing kumbaya isn't going to free the Burmese. American, and just for a change, international action just might.
Pete, New Jersey, USA
Eddy in Stockport, where's the good ol' English bull dog ?
It's your former colony not ours.
Dan, Winsted, USA / CT
Too bad these people are totally unarmed and can't fight back. Thank God the US Constitution has the 2nd Amendment - to keep and bear arms. It was not included in there as a right to go hunting, it was put in the Constitution so the people could defend themselves from a tyrannical government! Alas, most people forget that and what these poor Burmese are going through is just another sad reminder of why good people need guns.
Anna, New York, USA
We have been told, by some in our country and others outside of it, that freedom of speech in the First Amendment and NOT the Second Amendment, is what keeps our country free. I would like to point out the error in that thinking. It's called Burma. This isn't the first time this has happened either. So now we are told by the same idiots that detest gun ownership and our Second Amendment that someone needs to save them. If you are so inclined to give these people help, then strap on a gun and do it yourself. Or better yet, arm them and let them fight their battle. Rule number one - never ask some one else to do what you are not willing to do your self. That is the mark of a coward. I also find it hysterical that some are willing to help these people, but would not help the Iraqis who were daily tortured, beaten, and murdered by the former dictator Saddam Hussein. Go figure.
Tony, Charlotte, USA
I guess those folks don't have the benefit of the 2nd amendment. Clubs and pitchforks don't work against machine guns.
Joe
Erie, Pa.
Joe, Erie, Pa.
Where do the calls for "action by the West" end? There is no prescription for this. In the end - and very recent history teaches this - the people themselves will overthrow a regime. That such coups come in many guises just means that no one size fits all. Tyrannies are only different from democraces in that they hide their differences behind a wall of lies and propaganda. But their internal contradictions weaken them and eventually they fail. This may be no consoltation to the Burmese, or the Zimbabweans or others living under terrible despots. But their moment will come - they have to be able to recognise when to take it. If the west has a role, it is that once the exisitng power crumbles it has a moral duty to help feed and sustain a people whose society has shattered, and then help them to rebuild.
Tim, Kingston,
I wonder if the good, law abiding citizens of Burma have the right to defend themselvesâ. Gun control kills â¦â¦â¦. Thank God for the 2nd Amendment in the USA.
I suppose the UN is still debating on what to do if anything.
USA get out of the UN.
Bill Zamz, Glen Burnie, MD USA
This is a sad and shocking situation but to ask "where is the USA" every time there is injustice in the world is what used to be called a "cop out" - Where is India? Where is Western Europe? Where is Japan? Where is Canada? We in the US are looked to whenever there is injustice and vilified when we intervene, called upon to rectify situations and then branded occupationists and imperialists. How can we want autonomy for any people more than they want it for themselves?
Louisa, Philadelphia, PA,
Very Very simple!!! Solution
Mr Bush & Tony Blair( now Gordon Brown)+allies with all due respect if you can bypass UN and do the needfull what you think is war on terror and that your Aliby of WMD was even then wrong!!! you pursued the WAR ON TERROR WELL FINE!!! please immediately initiate collective action on Junta to avoid further terrorism aganist these inocent Burma people...this is another Iraq..Iraq was only controlled by Saddam .. this is worst done by group of likeminded...Junta terrorist holding full country at perils.....systematically using administration.
IF NOT TODAY BURMA..2MMRW ANOTHER COUNTRY
WHY UN IS AT LOGGERHEADS..THEN Y WE NEED UN ..IF INITIATIVE CAN BE TAKEN ONLY BY US+ALLIES..
May God guard and protect America...I think UN IS WASTING TIME..EVERYTIME SAME STORY BY UN..THAT IS WHY THE WORLD IS SUFFERING!!! FROM TERRORISM...why there is no swift action...
Mark, Manama, Bahrain
I am really ashamed of many of my countrymen with their "oh well, sucks for them" attitude. In Burma, they are praying for intervention (unlike Iraq). As for standing up for themselves, they are trying. Have you not seen the pictures of weaponless monks being beaten to death? Crowds standing up to armed soldiers with nothing but bravado and rocks (the only weapon available to them)? See how brave you are facing automatic rifles with nothing but pebbles and stones. For the record, Burma has HUGE energy reserves including oil and natural gas. Since the West has sanctions against Burma, China (primarily) has most of the energy rights. Burma also has many other resources in gems and minerals. The issue is China trying to protect their economic interests. Additional sanctions against Burma will do nothing but harm the citizens even more. As it is, they are on the verge of starvation. Threats of an Olympic boycot (huge financial loss potential) is the only thing that will get China to act.
Aaron, in Kuala Lumpur, from USA
I am rarely moved by the news these days. However, I found after reading this article, that a lump developed in my throat which made it difficult to swallow.
What has happened in Burma over these past few day is an absolute travesty. It is a travesty because the rest of the world sat and watched these peaceful people get slaughtered. When will the governments of the world learn that we are tired of lip service we hear and we want them to act responsibly.
Instead of the quagmire created in Iraq/Afghanistan, we should addressing the injustices going around the world such as what took place in Burma.
Just once I'd like to see and hear a government do some good and protect individuals such as the monks as opposed to sitting on the sidelines, tutting while at the same time counting their money in the form of contracts that they make with these thug regimes.
Gernblan, Winnipeg/London,
Mark S has a staggeringly myopic and ignorant position on oil and US involvement. I guess he missed Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Panama, Granada, Haiti, Colombia, Somolia
Delvin Mcgee, Atlanta, Ga USA
I find it amazing and rather dispicable that on one hand, people say, "Won't the USA help us?? Where are they??" then on the other hand, people jab at the USA, saying they'll only help if Burma has oil, or something else we can use from them. So which is it- help or none? Are we damned if we do, damned if we don't? This is really old. These poor people obviously need help- but we can't just storm in there- there are procedures to follow; having said that, these people are begging for it- dying for it. However, I hope that people who've read the article- youreally digested it, think twice before bashing their country and especially conveying how BAD we all have it. Anyone leaving a message here, obviously has it better than the people which we're reading about. Bush is so terrible, but I can't remember the last time someone was shot when burning their country's flag. In all this mess- we free people can find something to be grateful for. And we must figure out how to help these people.
Jenny Bea, Stamford, CT
Looks like a Pro Gun example to me.
John, Honolulu, Hawaii
Let's all hold hands and pray for the people of Burma and send them what we can -- food, bandages, whetstones. Feels real good. But I concur with Jane Arcus: If the Burmese want freedom, they should rise up in the night with long knives.
Armies are nothing against a determined people willing to die for their children and grandchildren. Aung San Suu Kyi should tell them that and kiss her father's picture and lead.
S. Britchky, Rancho Mirage, California
Kim is correct, of course the liberals (communists) would disarm us all. The government would protect us! They know best!
To George W. above; Try to remember that Burma is a small country. Special forces can equip and train the population to take their own country back. The libs would have a fit, but perhaps some of them would learn something. I notice they are strangely silent on their usual soap boxes such as oppression and women's rights in the middle east, or Burma, for thaat matter...
Bernie, Saint Joeseph, Missouri
clearly, the un is a corrupt and useless organisation. and national politicians hide behind international law, which dictates that no one should interfere in the internal workings of sovereign nations unless they threaten others. then who will stand up for the oppressed minorities (or majority) on the other side of the world?
the first thing we need to do is vote for parties in our own countries which are ready to change the un and intervene.
sadly, world marches or even sanctions won't matter to the junta. the only way (for now) to get at them is via china, whose self-interest will preclude any interference. they might be a bit concerned by a boycott of the olympics, but the truth is that china is the sort of nation the un should be sorting out along with most of africa, the middle east and asia.
what we need is a proper world government organisation which values everyone's freedom and will remove dictators who abuse their own people. "nations" should be history.
jem, london, uk
Uh, yeah. The Vietnamese suffered in the same way, but the same short-sighted cowards who set in motion their polgrom is in the process of doing the same for Iraq. The people of Iraq suffered in much the same way--starving to death so Saddam could build his palaces, being fed to lions and wood chippers, having their daughters raped in front of them, being tortured to death for belonging to the wrong political party...and look how we've been thanked for saving them. Accused of everything from stealing Iraq's oil to trying to settle a personal debt of our President. It will be a cold day in Hell before America does anymore "rescuing" of a people. And face it--America is the only country that has the capacity--though it no longer has the will-- to do anything anymore. Afraid you're on your own, world. Wish you the best.
John, Frisco, TX
The UN has become useless. China, on the Securuty Council, enjoys Human Rights abusers. Then, they do not look so bad. China and will veto action along with the rest of the general boby made up of dictators. No Muslim nation cares about the human rights of bald dudes in orange robes. Europe, has lost moral direction and will look to the US for action. Europe gave up guns, thinking socialism and green will save the world. Putin will cry about Western (US)intervention as his people slide into Stalinist mode. Well armed Christians could save the day, but there are none left, with clout, in England, France, Germany. There is no outrage in growing Socialistic / Muslim western Europe. South America looks on with horror as Chavez watches step by steps of killing monks. (Priests will die, just as easy.) And the US? Why US again, if the rest of the world turns there back on US.
Mark, Fort Worth, TX USA
Let this be a lesson to all. The freedom to bear arms is the key to freedom. In the USA this type of action by "police" would be harder to carry out. Citizens in the US could fight back.
Larry King, Kansas City, Missouri
I was in Myanmar for almost a month in March and April. The people there are among the kindest I have ever met. They almost universally begged me to get the word out about how bad it is: how the government uses political dissidents as slave laborers, how payoffs of "treason" make even the most basic freedoms of speech and press dangerous, how the government steals from the country and yes, kills civilians for demonstrating.
Many also asked that the UN or US send troops to rid them of their government. There are bases everywhere in the country, and they can be reasonably presumed aimed at their own people and not foreign nations, given their placement. Resistance is not an option. Talk to more than three people about how you hate the government, and chances are, one will rat on you and turn you in. Organization is almost insurmountably difficult.
So I support UN troops going into Myanmar wholeheartedly. I am an American who resents the Iraq & Afghanistan wars, but the UN--great
matt, hawaii, usa
We must pray, pray, pray!!!! Pray that God will send his mighty angels there and that courage would rise up in the people there that they will over-throw their government and that freedom will reign there! Also we must pray for protection!!!!!! In Jesus Name!
Joshua College Station, TX, College Station, Texas
Why do we look at the US to solve all the global problems? They are not world saviours!! They went to Afganistan and Iraq for selfish reasons.
But now if we don't move in to save the Burmas and the Zimbabwes of the world, we will have no face to blame America for going into Afganistan and Iraq, for whatever reason they did!
Ashish Deodhar, Mumbai, India
It is not the job of the United States to police all of the corrupt governments of the world. In his Farewell Address, George Washington warned us to "avoid foreign entanglements." He was not discouraging open discourse or trade, but cautioning against becoming involved in someone else's fight. One might argue that we have a moral obligation to defend the innocent. Where do we draw the line, though? The US government exists to protect the citizens of the United States. Ought we invade every country whose government doesn't fit the Western profile? The sooner we return to our roots, the better.
David Jaquith, Nokomis, USA
This isn't about left or right, and really its not about american politics. A grave injustice is happening in plain view and it is an appalling sight to behold. As a human race we must demand more of ourselves without resorting to blaming foreign policy or a lack of action from our government or the president. We the people run the government. If we believe that this suppression of human rights is wrong than we the people need to let our intentions be known.
adam
california
adam williams, Cotati, USA California
this is a great opportunity for the US to counter all of the negative press it has been getting in the past years for Iraq, Guantanamo, etc... If they sweep in and save the day, the international press will eat it up and Bush will leave office on a high note.... but sadly this will probably never happen.
Henry Himmler, NY, NY
This is a barbaric act tolerated by ASEAN. As the regional block battles it own domestic problems. Hope we could rely on the UN to send diplomats ASAP to ease tensions in the region.
charles, Cebu, Philippines
It appears the Burmese have to decide if they will accept their status quo or persue a painful revolt in hopes for a more free future.
Trev, Portland, USA
To the people of Buma I offer my prayers and admiration.The west should fund arms and whatever else is needed by the people of Burma to overthrow this illegitimate government.
What a suprise that once again China has shown it´s true colours.No doubt feeling the heat about it´s own genocide in Tibet.
The west, if it really means business, should abandon Chinese products and the Olympics.
Until the peoples of the developed world act rather than just speak,these terrible injustices will continue unabated.
James Currie, Andalucia, Spain
A message to the generals stop the repression and the downright brutality towards your own people. It is unjust, wrong and inhumane.
Remember one day you will be held to account, maybe not in this life but defiantly in the other.
John Iurincich, Central Coast, Australia NSW
The world should realize that many more people will die tomorrow. These military thugs have no morals! How many more must die before U.N and U.S will intevrene? Please help us, President Bush!. They are afraid of U.S. As well they should. Would they dare to stand against a U.S Marines? No. They will all run like little chickens. They only kill unarmed men, women, children and now even monks! Have you so easily forgotten 8/8/88 when those same thugs killed 3,000 people? Please don't their lives end in vain! Marines are suppose to help those that cannot fight for themselves. Can you see that Burmese people have no weapons to fight back? Who is supplying these military thugs with their weapons? I know you know. I know you can help. Please help us! How long must these people suffer? My heart is broken and I am saddened. And I am ashamed that all I can do is write on the internet. Please help us U.N and President Bush of the United States. God Bless you.
Pyi Soe, los angeles, Los Angeles, CA
Many with anti-American sentiments decry the fact that the US has acted without the "approval" of the UN in places such as Kosovo and, especially Iraq. But it's the UN that prevents the international community from doing anything meaningful or positive in places such as Darfur and now Burma. The US cannot be all things to all people but in exchange for being asked to be the "savior" of Burma, is the rest of the world willing to accept our actions in places such as Iraq when are nation decides it is in our interest? I think not.
I will also point out to Ostevo that the sole reason China has not yet invade Taiwan is the threat of US intervention that hangs over such action. The UN would be powerless to do anything in such event too
Blake, Alexandria, USA/Virginia
What stops a country from helping? If the US goes in, the whole world would be in an uproar that the imperialist US is trying to take over another country.
At the same time, it is almost impossible for the UN to step in because many of its members treat their citizens the same way. China and Russia have been known to kill their citizens in such a manner. They are part of the big 5 and they would never dream of condemning such acts.
Which countries do you think would break from the UN and help? France? That's funny. Russia? They'd help the generals. China. Same deal. No other country has the war machine to go in and take care of it, except the US.
But, the US is weary of wars where even if the original intention is honorable, the results will not be. Somalia is a good example. The US (and UN) went in to help feed the hungry. They ended up leaving with a bigger mess in place.
The monks are quite simply, doomed.
Chewy Baca, Killinghall,
We did try and help a country being tortured by its leader, it's called Iraq. Americans want to be saviors but they don't have the resolve to follow through with it. In the end we (americans) will end up with more death, because those people who dared believe and trust us will be the first executed when the phony politicians get their way and cut and run.
Jenn Collins, Sparks, Maryland
In a 21st Century world, where many more nations are wealthier and have an important voice in international relations, it is tragic to see that 1) only a small minority of states are acknowledging the situation in Burma , and 2) those states are doing very little in considering how to deal with the situation at hand. Therefore, what we need is global engagement and intervention, and action that is meaningful and will actually make a difference. I agree that the rules of international law should be revised, to remove the âpose a threat to international securityâ element â we cannot hide behind such words, and use them as a justification to do nothing at all. What is happening in that country is horific, immoral, and deplorable, and it must be stopped immediately. We now have conflict in Burma, Nigeria, Israel, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan and in many other parts of the world. Abuses of Human Rights and Civil Liberties are taking place right now. How can we possibly not be outraged?
Marcin Roth, London , UK
where's the UN. Once again shirking thier duty?
Rick, Wichita,
The governments of the free world need to act as one and act now....!
Actions need to be taken that enable the Burmese to sweep aside this evil junta that has held their country in it's blood stained grip for far to long.
Failure to do so will only strenthen their hold on the country. Leading to blooby reprisal against the brave monks and citizens who have taken to the streets.
In todays world of instant communication governments can no longer just sit back and waffle....!
colin worcester, brixham, devon uk
were are free because we are told so, we live in a country with more cameras than the ombined armed forces, id carsd dna, stop and search ect, so who is free the burmaese or us as british subjects, we have unelected house, a jounnalist surveyed the datume of freedom adollar a day, the poor of burma have a dollar aday to live on.I doubt the new wave of democracy will change the status qua in burma.THE LAST WORD if 1million people demonstrate in london for demcracy would the labour govenment take any notice.
michael joseph heavey, cahersiveen>adams towns, m
Why is it alway America that has to stand up for another country. More American blood has been shed defending other countries than all other countries combined. The Burmese Army could be taken out in a Day or two. So where's Europe? Sitting on the sidelines as usual expecting America to take all the hits.
Time to step up Europe, you know the UN is a Joke.
Frank, Washington,
the hated GW Bush has spoken out ....where are the rest of the so called leaders of the western world.? Burma is begging, bleeding and bludgeoned.. have you no conscience? Where are the women's rights groups.. ("the Lady" is the most courageous women in the world) what about the infamous, ubiquitious reverends.. i.e. jackson and sharpton.. (no cameras?) our fearless presidential candidates? no voters? especially the proposed " female leader" who will defend us against everything... except soros, moveon, etc. . the monks are armed with twigs... and their belief in reincarnation to sustain them... Relocate the UN to these wonderful places where the employed toads of dictatorships will not enjoy flaunting their diplomatic immunity and screwing their "host" country ... UN is once again useless, spineless and shameless
mary richter, St. James, United States. New YOrk
The Media hype over Burma is uncalled for. Why not turn your thoughts towards the tragedy that is Zimbabwe? Or is there no mileage in that one? No freebies to the Mystical Orient, etc.
Jim T, Sol, UK
Will continue to pray for the Burmese people who deserve to elect their leaders,they have suffered long and hard as we have witnessed under this evil and oppressive regime.The day will come when they are set free which many of us who can choose do take 'freedom' for granted.
Cecilia , La Nucia Alacant, España
I am sooo confused. When our government attempts to make life better for other countries many people in this country kick and scream for us to mind our own business which makes the tyrants in those countries happy.
Now I read where a young Burma boy is crying for Bush to invade his country, to help them get rid of the tyrants.
Which is it? Help or don't help?
I have a better idea. It's been tried and tested. If we all got down on our knees and prayed to God,the tyrants would be defeated. Look what happened at LaPanto with the Turks.
maria, mountaintop, pa
Consider this scenario: Bush sends in a military contingent. Reid-Pelosi decide to strand the troops to buy more votes. Whose the winner? ... not the Burmese!
Frank, Jacksonville, FL
The west (aka the US and the organizations it funds) is probably playing the wait and see game because the people who would be doing all the work (the US) is still involved in the last excursion where the world stabbed us in the back.
Thats right - you all said how much Saddam needed to be deposed. Your countries spit on the UN sanctions, and let Saddam walk all over you time and time again - for your own economic gain. We stepped in and did what you all said you wanted and now look at where that is at.
So, do not be surprised if it takes us time to react to this while we let all of you make plans and plot and sanctions that all add up to nothing while secretly getting fat off the aid money we are sending to the civilians. Let us know when we need to fix this for you as our people are willing to sweat and bleed for others' freedom even though the rest of you just talk about it.
Blair Kingsly, Raleigh, USA
Chad. Where are you getting this stuff? We can fight terrorism with a chat? I don't think you understand what and who we are up against. Do a little homework on your own and find out what motivates these folks. You buy a bigger gun when you do.
David, Honey Brook, USA
GW has spoken out against this atrocity. our silent,gutless congress has once again showed itself to be spineless and ineffective.. Move the UN to these horrific places and see if the employed toads still wish to have their jobs instead of living in NY where they flaunt their diplomatic immunity and screw us every which way to SUN.. Burma is begging and bleeding... Does hollywood hear? Women's rights groups? Religious leaders.. human rights (leaders??. ie. the ubiquitious reverends, jackson and sharpton?) what greater heroine could there be than "the Lady"? are you all deaf? Where is the proposed "leader" of the democrat candidates.. afraid of soros, afraid of moveon, afraid of speaking out... the monks are armed with twigs... and braver than that is hard to imagine.. their only hope now is reincarnation, not liberation
mary richter, St. James, United States. New YOrk
If Burmese had the right to keep and bear arms, their government couldn't run roughshod over them. The people would have fought back and won.
les, Arizona, USA
They have no weapons, they do not fight. Why are they a threat. Why do they need to be shot?
Devo, CT, USA,
The power struggle in Burma is the classic one of the haves having the guns and the have nots having nothing but moral superiority and courage. Why dont the democratic contries in the region, like Thailand, come to their rescue? Oh, I almost forgot, one military regime will not help to overthrow another! I fear the Burmese people will be downtrodden and murdered until the world is shamed into doing something to end the misery. When will that be?
I believe the Thai people are getting a lesson in what can happen to them if they do not press for a real democracy in December.
Michael Derieg, Bangkok, Thailand
Latest reports from Washington say that the US government is thinking of sending a task force to help to restore democracy in Burma. Gordon Brown is in talks with President Bush to deploy troops on the Thai border.
I'm only joking. The west will do nothing.
malcolm mansfield, paris, france
If Burma had oil then the world would be involved as this is a very similar tragedy to Zimbabwe. The monks only wanted peace and democracy and their own government fire upon them.
M, Hayes, Middlesex
Quote: "The Burmese People need to fight for what they want. The story is sad, but even more sad is that they lost their will to fight. They don't deserve freedom if they won't fight for it.
John R"
My response:
John, the basis for a dictatorship is an armed goverment controlling/oppressing an unarmed citizenry. The unarmed Burmese citizens who want freedom can't fight, only suffer and die. They have a lot of courage but very few options.
Derek Phibes, London, UK
Power. That's the problem worldwide. In Burma, the generals have the power. They have weapons and the will to use them. The monks have very little power and would not use weapons even if they had them. The Burmese generals have a very easy time of it--controlling people and running the country the way they want. This is because the monks and the people are non-violent people. And this is what happens when the violent prey upon the nonviolent. One can talk and march all day long but it will not change the fact that a loaded gun in the hand of someone willing to use it wins every time.
Morgan Le Fey, Notasulga, Alabama
After all these years of ever growing anti-Americanism, it's interesting to see so many people still demanding US intervention. Surely we need to leave the Burmese (and the Sudanese and the Zimbabweans, etc, etc) to solve their own problems.
Ellen Morris, Leeds,
WEll ...BIg up to all reporting the current events in Burma...We need more and continous exposure...Burma has been out of mind and sight fro so long.....hope we the people will overcome the Junta soon....
K Joseph, St.John's, Antigua
For those like rob, advocating invasion, this would be effectively declaring war with China, Myanmar's principal ally and protector, very possibly with Russia on its side. Personally I'd rather see government and private boycotts and sanctions and UN peacekeepers being sent in (however difficult that might be to get past the UNSC, surely worldwide disgust and protest must force China to compromise on that) than see this turned into a global conflict of superpowers, all heavily nuclear armed - starting WW3 would not help the people of Myanmar or anywhere else.
Ruth, Salwa, Kuwait
For those that love big government this is your fate. Government has one goal and one motivation.
To Survive and grow larger.
Why this does not happen in the US as it has occured in other countrys is quite simple.
In the state of Minnesota there are sold 450,000 deer hunting licenses that means 23 divisions of Armed indivuals that are familiar with their weapons and cold weather gear.
The tyrants would not stand a chance however much blood would be shed..
Ron, minneapolis, USA
For those that are implying that the lack of U.S. action is due to lack of oil, maybe you should do some research. Burma actually has substantial oil reserves. That's how the junta became so well-armed in the first place - by selling oil.
Chris, Richmond, Virginia
Have not the very people of Burma brought this on themselves?
Just like in Iraq.....the people have shown themselves not to be worthy of freedom.
Chuck Gallup, Tonasket, WA
It is SAD that kind, loving, and peaceful people cannot protest their government in favor of pro-democracy and freedom. If more people in this world followed Buddha's way, this world would not doubt be a BETTER place in all areas of life.
Trent, Dover, DE, USA
What can we do? Join the boycott of China. Talk about it with your friends and families. We can heal political divisions if we can unite for a common purpose. We've got to stop feeding this dragon.
How many more reasons do we need? Burma, Tibet, lead paint, toxic toothpaste, forced abortions, destruction of our local economies, environmental catastrophes.....
"But life is too expensive without Chinese goods."
-Buy fewer things. This would help the problem of over-consumption. Probably 40% of landfill waste is Made in China, and thats only because construction waste makes up nearly 40%.
-Produce locally. Businesses will sprout to meet the demand. We should also push for reform to allow for an 'informal economy.'
Then we can all participate in local trade. This will contribute to regaining our sense of community.
For items you can't buy locally, buy from countries with better policies. No country is perfect, but we need to send a clear message to China. Now
Jed , Stuart,
Lets prove that the west doesnt just care about oil, lets get the nearest american carrier group to sail at flank speed to burma's coast (intimidation) whilst diplomacy becomes blunt with these "generals" then give them 24hrs to hand over to democracy and if not launch air strikes with the f-18's and tomohawks against the generals personal residences, hq's and arms depots, freeze all their overseas assets and use gps weapons to accurately target the generals. Use the cia and intel troops of different nations to turn lower ranking officers against the generals whilst having ecm planes overhead to distribute burmese civilian media to the public. lets use our muscle for good!
rob, london, uk
This is not a job for the American imperialists. It's time for the European union to show it's face, with the British and French in the lead.
Joe, Trondheim,
I am pleased that the USA and UK
have been at the forefront of isolating the
regime. But I fear even if the Western
world isolates Burma we will not achieve
our objective. Burma does produce a lot
of oil and gas - the UK and USA are
already disinvested, the EU should follow.
But China can and will take up the slack.
China is the only country that can bring
about change in Burma but can it afford
to.....if quiet dignified protest can bring
democracy to Burma where next?
mark crombie, London, UK
forget blaming the u.s. (or, more accurately, blaming people for allegedly blaming the u.s.).
this is the kind of problem that needs to be dealt with by international agreement.
and the only reason certain parties don't agree to this is that they know damned well that they will face similar accusations themselves that they ignore the will of their own people and oppress them.
what is the point of letting a bunch of dictators vote on whether or not we deal with dictators? turkeys... christmas? it's quite simple... any government that does not represent its people should not get a vote at the u.n. and that includes countries on the security council.
then give the u.n. some teeth. er... and monitor it for corruption, obviously!
jem, london, uk
Steve, the Burmese are justified in their assertion. If George Bush wants to invade countries under the auspices of humanitarianism Burma's right up at the top of the list of countries to invade.
Kyle, Minneapolis,
The monks are peace loving, therefore military intervention should be inappropriate in their view, something we should all respect. If their religious beliefs are correct, their prayers should be the solution to their problems. I have read that they beg for a living, if they kept to that and praying, certainly no government would be concerned about their activities.
I do not see any imperative to go to war so that some monks may spend their lives begging for a living.
Richard Sye, Carriere, USA
We'd be there in a heartbeat if Burma had a large oil supply. Maybe we can try claiming that Buddhism is "evil" like Communism. It would make just as much sense. I think its time for a new American civil war. Those of us who read and think can separate ourselves from those of us who love money above all else and those who chant "freedom" as a paradoxical warcry.
Zac, New York, US
How Ironic that these poor monks, men of peace hope that Bush will invade their contry and rescue them. When the Lieberals want us to leave Iraq because we are "harming" innocent Iraqis. Understand that without a few brave Americans the evil leaders of this world would treat you the same way as these monks. Think it can't happen in the police state of England ,give it 20 years.
Mike, Los Angeles, USA/CA
What an amasing story with a wonderfully uplifting ending. I loved it. Good work to the writer.
Matt, Murrayville,
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. â That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, â That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
....
When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
And where they are unable to do so, it is up to those who ARE able to help.
Daniel, Salt Lake City, UT
While I'm a proponent of the Second Amendment, and I own guns myself, the problem here is not the lack of an armed citizenry. The problem here is that this government rules the population, rather than serving the population. This is a perfect example of what happens when a government is given too much power. We give them the power to disarm us and trust them to protect us, we give them the power to manage our education and our health care and expect them to make us educated and healthy. The risk is that when we're uneducated, sick, and powerless, there is nothing we can do to instigate change. Be cautious of giving a government more that the minimum power needed to protect your rights and freedoms.
The tragedy is that these people never had a chance to prevent this, because they've been under totalitarian regimes since the beginning of time.
The US doesn't need the fix this, THE UN DOES. They need to do something besides shake a finger and say, "Don't do that" for a change.
Damon , Birmingham, Alabama
Why wouldn´t we invade Bruma to establish democracy and save poor monks and other citizens? Oh, and most importantly, there´s some oil! That should be an easy sell.
Michael, Mexico, Mexico
Gerard's point is EXCELLENT. It is the RIGHT of every world citizen to own a firearm if he/she so chooses. Government is inherently evil, while people are inherently good.
D, Dallas, TX
Very well said, Harold Mark. WE NEED MORE PEOPLE WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING!
Christopher Reid, Tampa, FL
In response to Harold Mark, it is inaccurate to state that the people of Burma want US help and the Iraqis did not. Prior to the fall of hussein, the Iraqi people overwhelmingly wanted help. The war's damage to an outdated infrastrcuture left people needing the new govt to intervene quickly to setup basic services (such as power). Public opinion only started to change when those basic needs were not met by the new govt (and subversive elements were able to gain favor by stepping in). While the internal political climate is much different in burma, the initial attitude toward help is very similar to iraq. In short, I think you have much stronger arguments for being in burma than "they want us and Iraq didnt". I think your dislike for the US may be clouding your historical perspective. You stated that the US doesnt get involved unless it has selfish motivation. What about Kosovo, Somalia, or the billions of dollars in foreign aid to nations which have nothing to offer in return?
Rudy, washington, DC
Quote: "Moral and political courage is the only way to beat this enemy and destroy the conditions that keep them in power.
Chadd, Columbia"
My response:
How exactly will that work to defeat someone who is shooting at you?
If you can pull that off I suggest you jump on a plane over there straight away, and use your 'superior moral and political courage' to prevent further violence and killing by the military junta. We'd all wish for your success but I just think you can't do it.
On the other hand, if all Burmese citizens each had one rifle and ten bullets the junta would think long and hard before deciding to attack those citizens.
Derek Phibes, London, UK
I don't agree with their religion out there, but what is going on is just sick. The murder of these innocent, peaceful monks, is nothing short of tyrannical. I pray that the killers behind this massacre pay dearly.
Trevor, Steinbach,
Well... The thing about guns is.. A well armed population is a deterrant to a hostile government. THAT is the whole purpose of the 2nd amendment. Now imagine if no citizen owned a gun in the US. You think the patriot act took our rights away, imagine if they knew that all we had was rocks.
Nick , Mesa, AZ
I'm not much of a religious person, but I'm starting to suspect that the religiionists are right - that the human race is spiritually flawed, incapable of learning from history's errors, and incapable of real long-term peace and real justice. Even those nations we consider to be living in a state of peace today have very worrisome burgeoning undercurrents which may erupt into conflict of one sort or another in the very near future...
Dray, Triad,
It is so typically ignorant for some people to believe that more guns are the answer. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, 33,000 people died in the US last year from firearms. 12,000 of these were determined to be homocides. Guns haven't solved our problems and they definitely won't solve theirs either. This hold true for Iraq also. Moral and political courage is the only way to beat this enemy and destroy the conditions that keep them in power.
Chadd, Columbia, Mo, US/MO
And...The genius Obama says we should talk to our enemies...does he know that Aung San Suu Kyi is trying to do exactly that since 1988? (Or his IQ is conveniently high only for winning the elections like Kerry or Gore's college grades?)
This quite protester, a nobel peace prize winner, is effectively silenced and is under house arrest since 1988 when the junta killed more than 3000 for protesting non violently! Do Obama dare to switch her place? Does Hillary's feminist self has a single word of sympathy for her?
Who should sensible people talk to: Military Junta of Burma, Taliban, Mohamad Farah Idid kind of Warlords of African nations, Saddam, Ahmadinijad, Hugo Chavez, Kim ill, who kills and maims their opponents daily?
Is it possible to talk to these tyrants like Gandhi was talking to Mountbatten or British parliament? No. Then, how long these leftist lib appeasers keep fooling people with election time rhetoric? If we can not police the world for a good cause, as we watched millions of Rawandans killed under a great appeaser, we should atleast be quite and not helping the tyrants!
Rasen, New Jersey, United States
We took our country from the British because we got tired of them pushing us around, but it seems that for those in Burma that wouldn't be so easy for a number of reasons. We may not be the police of the world but when someone asks for our help, shouldn't we give it. It seems that we are trying to force democracy on Iraq when they don't want it, but yet in Burma they have actually held elections that were won by the democratic party yet ignored by the military regime then. The winning leader has been held under house arrest for years, they want to be a democratic nation, ask for our help to become that, and we ignore them. That is pretty sad!!!! Too bad they weren't a big oil country, we would have jumped right on it.
Patti, Piqua, OH
It would be a nice world if peaceful protest worked. Unfortunately, it does not. There are times when all diplomacy has failed where the only resort is armed conflict. I know the monks wouldn't use it and I admire their bravery to protest peacefully even while certain they would be ruthlessly beaten and killed for it.
Yet the students can arm themselves and the population at large can rise up. I hope it doesn't come to that but these people deserve a government that stands beside them not upon them.
Matt, Edmond, USA. Oklahoma
Non-violent protest can work when the oppressors have moral standards that they try to live up to, and so Ghandi's and Martin Luther King's methods worked where they were. But it is time for the people of Burma to remember that an unarmed people are always at the mercy of the biggest of armed gangs, the government. Some decades ago when we could watch on television as the elected vice-president of Panama was beaten in the streets by soldiers of the military dictator who annuled the election that would have replaced him. If you do not have the right to own firearms, all other rights can be taken from you easily. Shoot the demonstrators, close the press, shut down the Internet, run the schools, and make the people absorb the effects of sanctionfor you. As long as the people are unarmed, they cannot threaten the monsters who rise to the top in such systems. If you want them to be free, give them guns. They will also value more what they have won themselves.
Gerard michael Burns, Asuncion, Paraguay
In response to Jeremy. The reason the US invasion of Iraq isnt working is because those people dont want it. If were going to police the world, then we should do it where it counts. We should go to Burma, take out the Junta and leave the country to the people who do want freedom and want our help and are willing to build a free country. But we dont. Everything we say about freedom is only rhetoric to advance the American interest, and that is to acquire or protect the natural resources we need. Were only willing to stick our necks out if we have something to gain, not to spread freedom like we say. Thats a damn shame.
Harold Mark, Houston, Texas
Jenn has a point....
if the burmese people had guns this thing would have been over a decade ago and the National League for Democracy would be in power. The first thing tyrants do is take away guns --Burmese General Than Shwe learned from Hitler very well...
mike, wash , dc
That was a bit brazen, Jenn. I'm all for private ownership of firearms, but this situation is not in the US. Very simply, the Monks are an icon of an ancient culture, and their non-violence is a VERY powerful weapon, as demonstrated by the reaction of the junta over the protests. Guns wouldn't solve problems over there, it would create more. For reform to last in Burma, a moral victory is needed.
Spence, Houston, TX
Jenn, don't be discouraged by liberal lucy from NYC. You are absolutely correct, the only way to fight repressive force is with force. Maybe the monks would eschew using guns, but I bet their supporters would love to fire back with equal measure. I'm sure lucy's answer is to talk to the murderers and try to "reason" with them ....wake up lucy!!
Robert, San Diego,
Lucy,
I think Jenn's real point was if civilians were armed their wouldn't have been a junta in the first place Lucy. Dig a little deeper in into an argument before disparaging another's point.
If discussing strictly today, monks would not shoot back, but the teenagers being mowed down in the street certainly would have. As would the 3,000 innocents mowed down in 1988.
Wade, Sheboygan, Wisconsin / USA
Sorry, the Democrats here in America have taught us that we shouldn't get involved when other governments oppress its people. Burma's generals didn't attack us on 911. So good luck with that.....
mark, chicago ,
Lucy, you are totally missing Jenn's point. A free people are armed, only slaves are disarmed. If any people are to remain free, being able to defend themselves against their own government is imperative. To think that what is happening in Burma can *never* happen here, is just wishful thinking. Its not consistent with man's history.
Chris, Concord, NH
In any society where defenseless citizens live under an armed government the people with the guns have total control. Guns are a tool used to kill, and that makes them easy to hate. But that doesn't change the fact that when people don't have the ability to defend themselves it is only a matter of time until those in power impose their will. Monarchs ruled with absolute authority in Europe until only a few centuries ago when an armed citizenry fought for its freedom. The same goes for America. That you would surrender freedom voluntarily because "guns are bad" is what's truly shameful and shocking.
Bryan, Las Vegas, USA
Jenn is correct, if this had happened in the US (except of course on the left coast or among liberals), American citizens would have pick up their arms and taken to the streets against the troops.
An armed and vigiliant citizenry is the greatest detertance to tryany.
BILL, USA, USA
Jenn,
I agree with you wholeheartedly and you should not be ashamed for speaking the truth.
Allison, Florida
Allion, Winter Park, FL
Freedom isn't free, you have to fight for your right to possess it. The monks are pacifists so their struggle is through protest, I say keep it up!! To quote R. Heinlein, "Violence is the supreme authority through which all authority is derived." The fact that they faced the army is an act of defiance and therefore an act of violence. There is nothing wrong with this!
If you decide to allow others to come in and fight on your behalf you have just surrendered your freedom to the discretion of those others. The US intended well enough when we invaded Iraq, but the Iraqi's can never have true freedom so long as we are there. Unfortunately, the Iraqis will probably fall into another despotism after the US pulls out because the deep desire to be free isn't in the majority of the populace.
So Burma, if you true desire freedom, please keep up the pressure and eventually you will succed. It may be hard but nothing worthwhile is ever easy!!
Bless you noble people
Jeremy, Charlotte, USA
I am about as liberal as they come, but I must say that I agree with Jenn. It is difficult to have a revolution when you are throwing rocks against AK-47s.
Bob, Tampa, FL
How did the U.S. gain freedom from the British in the late 1700's? Did they talk? Did they bargain?
No! They fought. They killed. They drove the British armies out of America. Oppressive governments don't willingly give up power... they must be forced to do so. That is why guns & firearms are so important. They preserve the ability of the people to maintain their freedom when government becomes oppressive. If you disagree with what I'm saying, you don't grasp human nature, you don't grasp the nature of government, and you are naive about the way this world operates.
Arming the people of Burma would be a fantastic way to enable them to gain their freedom. If they want freedom bad enough, they will fight for it. It'd be nice if at least they had a fighting chance and firepower to match the government's.
In Burma, you are seeing the result of when government and bad people have guns, but the good people don't.
Josh, Tulsa/Oklahoma,
Quote: "The Burmese People need to fight for what they want. The story is sad, but even more sad is that they lost their will to fight. They don't deserve freedom if they won't fight for it.
John R"
My response:
John, the basis for a dictatorship is an armed goverment controlling/oppressing an unarmed citizenry. The unarmed Burmese citizens who want freedom can't fight, only suffer and die. They have a lot of courage but very few options.
Derek Phibes, London, UK
Just another reminder of how lucky we are to live in a democracy.
Kevin A, San Francisco,
Burma is within the sphere of influence of China and India. Unfortunately, India doesn't care, and frankly, the sympathies of the Chinese politburo are not with the Monks! I love these trolls who say "Its Bush's fault because our armed forces are tied up in Iraq". Fact is, the USA has the economic resources to raise another army. Maybe the democratic congress will authorize the funding of a Myanmar expeditionary force!
Keith, Seattle, WA
Jenn, you are exactly right. Lucy, I can only encourage you to study the debate between the federalists and the anti-federalist specifically in reference to the Second Amendment. The following quote by Noah Webster, a contemporary of Hamilton and Madison, is particularly poignant:
"Tyranny is the exercise of some power over a man, which is not warranted by law, or necessary for the public safety. A people can never be deprived of their liberties, while they retain in their own hands, a power sufficient to any other power in the state."
Calhoun, Chicago, USA
In support of burma and for the burmese people and the monks
the world should boycott beijing olympics.
(china vetoed against condemnation at UN security recently purely based upon chinese commercial interest and investment in burma with the generals)
The burmese people had suffred similar brutal suppression and killing in 1988.Now 2007 again.
Without international intervention by force as well as through dialogue .burma would be the same under military dictatorrship.(force and guns are the language the generals preach and practice since 1960s)
mza, rangoon,
Funny, I see U.S., U.S. among the responses. Never China. Now why wouldn't China assist the Burmese. Perhaps because they depend on Burmas resources, perhaps because many Chinese are already living in Northern Burna. Oh, right, maybe because the "democracy loving" US has satisfied its business greed and turned China into a powerhouse that everybody forgets to call COMMUNIST China.
Maybe India will step up. (joke)
Janet, El Paso, USA/Tx
This is ridiculous, I love it liberals want to go out and get involved in conflicts that have no direct result on the U.S. but when we get involved in issues that effect national security they want nothing to do with it. And they always want to send the military into the fray without long term support!
j, dayton, ohio
If the US got involved, George Bush would soon be demonized for that, too, just like he's being demonized for everything else. According to the US Constitution, we should only get involved if our National Security interests are at stake. How many times have we been told to mind our own business??? I feel GREAT compassion for the poor people of Myanmar, but are we only supposed to spill our blood when we are NOT being threatened?
Heidi, Bothell, WA, USA
Jenn, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It is shocking. You should be ashamed of yourself.
lucy, NYC, USA
Jenn, why dont you go over there and hand out guns to the monks, i am sure that would solve everything. THINK FOR A MOMENT, they are peaceful, they would not have guns.
Lets' give everyone a gun. Nice one.
lucy, NYC, USA
In America if we got to this point we would be shooting back. Fortunately we have a right to bear arms that our Govt can not take away by force. This is what happens when you lose that right like these people have. You should never trust your own Govt enough to give up the right to protect yourself.
Jenn, Antrim, USA
I think it's time for the US to go in and save these people... would take a few hours...killing Monks for God Sakes...
John, Columbus, Oh
"The West acts only when the West is affected economically"
Reviewed last 1000 years of English/British/UK history...hummm
And your point is?
DanO, Mount Vernon, USA
What I surprise. Something goes wrong in the world and George Bush gets blamed for this too. That logic would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
Steve, St Louis, MO
there is an appalling lack of humanity in this world. what is everyone waiting for? american forces are stretched so thin in this illegal and unnecessary war in iraq, we have no ability to help any where else. i am angry and embarassed at what has become of my country. we have no soul.
patricia Keegan, shelton, ct
I am from India, and from what i just read here - i should have asked my governmnet to flex muscles and free the monks. Prior to 1947, our history with Burma is intervined....
Nut i cant do that for two reasons-
1. a military govt will not understand any rational but force
2. We cant use force for like Russians in Afganistan and Marins in Vietbam, we had our own Peace keeping disaster in srilanka - our armies will never like to reapeat it
All i can say is I am sorry on behalf of my nations, for inspite of being able , all we can do is to watch our brothers suffer & die
We are sorry ...
nishant, New Delhi, India
Hi,
Itâs very difficult for an outsider to understand exactly the course of events as to the going onâs in Burma as in Nepal (the roof of the Planet earth) is it communication,discount or economics
Terence Hale, Zurich, Holland
These people need help. The Buddhist monks are some of the kindest people on the planet. They are a blessing to all of us.
steve, austin, texas, usa
As long as China and India along with south east Asian countries do business with the military junta there will be no change. So if anyone in the west thinks that things need to change in Burma then please put pressure on Beijing, Delhi first and then other suth easst Asian nations. Till Gorbachev came, nothing happenedd in east Europe. So if democracy is to be brought in Burma, powers supporting the current regime must be forced to change their policies.
Ali, Dhaka,
there's only one simple fact in all of this. these people need help and the western nations are the only ones who can give it to them. let us hope we act before it's too late.
Teresa Ince, Paris,
Out of curiosity, can anybody advise on the level of Burmese oil exports?
Judging by the lack of USA & UK response, I'd guess somewhere in the region of Zero.
The West acts only when the West is affected economically.