Philip Webster, Political Editor, and Jane Macartney in Beijing
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Britain called for a resumption of negotiations between China and Tibetan representatives yesterday after Gordon Brown announced that he had spoken to the Chinese Premier and would meet the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, in May.
Last night China’s state media admitted for the first time that riots had spread to two provinces outside Tibet, but Beijing claimed that order was returning to the restive Himalayan region.
Mr Brown took the Commons by surprise when he informed MPs that Wen Jiabao, the Chinese Prime Minister, had told him in a telephone conversation yesterday that he was ready to enter into a dialogue with the Dalai Lama, provided that he did not support the total independence of Tibet and that he renounced violence.
Downing Street said that the Dalai Lama had already satisfied both conditions in recent statements and that Britain believed that conditions were in place for talks to resume between Beijing and Tibet’s spiritual leader.
Mr Brown’s announcement that he would see the Dalai Lama was welcomed by David Cameron, who will also meet him on his visit to London.
During their conversation, for which diplomats on both sides had prepared for several days, Mr Brown also called on China to show restraint in Tibet. He told Mr Wen of his intention to meet the Dalai Lama.
The formal reaction from China was one of dismay, however. China’s Foreign Ministry urged Britain to understand the Dalai Lama’s “true face” and offer him no support, the Xinhua news agency reported. A ministry spokesman said: “China is seriously concerned about the message. As we have repeatedly pointed out, Dalai is a political refugee engaged in activities of splitting China under the camouflage of religion.”
Beijing was enraged last year when Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, met the Dalai Lama, and relations were chilly for several months. By contrast, President Bush telephoned Chinese leaders to let them know of his decision to meet him.
That tactic, along with a promise to announce that he would attend the Olympics opening ceremony, mollified Beijing. It issued its standard statements of protest, but there was no sign that ties were affected by the meeting.
Sources close to Beijing told The Times yesterday that the Chinese Government remained enraged with the Dalai Lama over last week’s riots and there was no change in China’s conditions for talks with the Tibetan monk.
Beijing is unlikely to welcome other comments from Lord Malloch-Brown, the Foreign Office Minister, who said that the situation in Tibet could damage the reputation of the Olympics and China’s own interests. He called on British athletes to “speak the truth” about what was going on in China.
He told peers: “We will expect to see our athletes respect both the values of Britain — courtesy and respect for the country where the Games are — but also that supremely important value of speaking the truth as they see it and speaking openly of what they see.”
Britain, along with other Western countries, will use this year’s Beijing Olympics to put measured diplomatic pressure on the Chinese Government. Continued violence in Tibet will add to calls for Western nations to boycott the opening ceremony at the Games, or even the whole event. With the Olympics being staged in London in 2012, the Government has no intention of doing so.
Mr Brown told MPs: “I made it absolutely clear that there had to be an end to violence in Tibet. I also called for restraint, and I called for an end to the violence by dialogue between the different parties.”
David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, visited Mr Wen in China last month and emphasised yesterday that Britain would not boycott the Olympics over human rights. Tibetan exiles say that99 demonstrators have been killed in the Chinese crackdown. Beijing says that rioters in Lhasa, the Tibetan capital, have killed 13.
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The three part biography 'Wild Swans' by Jung Chang, gives a truthful account of China from the time of the War Lords up to 1978. This book explains the realities of life for ordinary people under Mao's Cultural Revolution and details outcomes of several Great Leaps Forward. This is an eye opener.
Boris, Belgravia, London
What untold trade is it between Dalai and the western governments? You western governments support Dalai by sacrificing the enormous economic opportunity by trading with China? Are you that stupid?
Let me tell you what, if you intend to turn Tibet into another economic colony of the western countries, you will face the same riot initiated by Tibetans, and I believe you "democratic" countries will carry out much more brutal crackdown on Tibetans just like what you did to Iraqis.
You will regret for your wrong choice of Dalai.
Janice, Hong Kong, China
To Irene in Helkinski who said "It is not the cultural issue or political debates today. It is a human right!"
How naive, I wish you said is true. Think Iraq, Israel/Palestine.
To Drew, Washington who said "I can stage a political protest outside a government office without being run over by a tank. Can you?"
It all depends on what kind of political protest. Can you stage a political protest to support Bin Laden and his suit bombers, in particular, when you are actually connected to Bin Laden, or one of supposed "terrorist cells"?
What's the name of that singer in Oregon whose name got mixed-up and was thrown into prison?
dan lee, LA, CA USA
i support chinese goverment.
cyuanxin, shantou, china
A couple of years ago, my wife and I have spent 9 days travelling in Tibet. I have beeing visting not only Lasha but some remote aeras as well. I can not speak their language but in general, I found them quitly friendly to visitors. Last night, when I watched on China TV the recorded video clips of riotters stabing passers-by on the street, I was really astonished. If religioin could ignite hatred like this, we need to question whehter the spiritual leader has really given the right message
Marco Ma, GuangZhou, China
No media is completely innocent though its broadcasting. In our opinion ,the media of the west are also influenced by relating governments,but in a more implicit way. How many of you have come to Tibet to see from your own eyes? Are your media virtually trustworthy? Or do you have any excuse of the lag of reactions among the US and its fellow countries against the Rwanda massacre? And then, where are you so called human rights.Ironically,prejudice is just triggered in the notional pursuit of justice.
LIU, Wuhan, China
My dear friends from the world, i do feel interesting, and actually maybe a little bit happy when i see your comments here, which showing some of you know very little about China and the history in this world, and some of you have no idea at all.
But we know more about your country, your history, and also trying to seek the stuff we can use - when i say we, i mean a lot of young people in China with college/unversity education. We are trying to understand before doing anything else.
In thousands years ago, in a great Chinese strategics it was said "know well about yourself and also the enemy, you will always be the winner". So i can see the future.
Although Chinese people are always peaceful in the history, but there is also a saying: wine for friends and gun for wolves.
The only truth for you is, you do not know the truth.
May your God bless you.
Wood, GZ, China
To Drew,Pullman,WA
You're entirely correct,of course,that I can't stage a political demonstration outside a government office.It's against the law.
By the same token,I can't go to the local gun store,get a handgun and go to the local high school to practice my shooting skills-like you can.It's against the law.
Jim James, Nanshan,Shenzhen, China
To Dan from Londaon, England
"You supporters have really got to start thinking through things yourselves instead of what your government tells you to think and say."
We, Chinese posters here, are able to read this website, which is not controlled by our government.
I am in US right now, I am able access pretty much every website in the world.
I also suggest you got to start thinking through things yourself instead of what your media tells u to think.
Hao, Ohio, USA
The people with legs are prohibited to access freely; the people, has home, are prohibited to go; the people, has culture, are prohibited to maintain; the people, has families, are not able to gather.
I do not understand what the 5000 years of civilization and history in Han ethnic group try to prove on the Tibetan development.
It is not the cultural issue or political debates today. It is a human right!
Irene, Helsinki,
To Jim James from Shenzhen:
I can stage a political protest outside a government office without being run over by a tank. Can you?
Drew, Pullman, WA
To Andy from Somerset,
Your view that the Chinese people have been brutalised into subservience is absolute pish-posh.
Try coming here-you'll be a hell of a lot freer than you are UK side.
It's rather irritating that the mass western media that portray Zhong Hua as a police state don't realise that it's nothing of the sort.
Whilst not politisising any particular point of view,I am free to do anything I want,within the constrainst of the law.Can you?
If I want a fag (cigarette to American readers) in a restaurant/on the street (just to trivialise matters) I can.Can you?
Just realise what you're commenting on before you post,please.
Jim James, Nanshan,Shenzhen, China
China should be expelled from the WTO and the U.N.
Calvin Hobbes, Yahoo, TX,
The fact is this time the Han people were attacked bt Tibet terrorists. The western media are paying a blind eye on this.
QS, NY, USA
Until now, the western governments are smart enough to keep their noses out of this. Unlike Iraq, China do have WMDs and trust me, these will make the IEDs in Iraq look like children toy.
Alvin, Manchester,
It's about time Mongolia and Japan took to arms again and staked their claims in Chinese territories once more, as the majority of Han Chinese readers seem to believe there's not much to occupation. Amazing how years of communist brain-washing have created people who think having (a long, long time ago) invented fireworks, silk and porcelain makes them a superior culture. Does the title 'Kingdom of the Middle' derive from being self-centred and egotistical? Time to drop that one-child policy, me thinks. Free Tibet!
Frank, Cape Town,
Will somebody please explain to me exactly why the Chinese invaded Tibet in the first place.
CAROL MUNT, READING BERKSHIRE, U.K.
To all the posters' comments (from China) ending with "please be quiet" or "shut up".
No.
Katy, London, UK
Tibetans have handled the erosion of their way of life with dignity and remarkable restraint. It is time China was held to account on this.
Catriona, Edinburgh, Scotland
Yes you are right in theme!We shouldn't only listen to those ruling, but thinking critically on the event.
And after taking your advice, Sorry that not everyone reach the conclusion you made!
Anyway, I think the issue is very sentimental for ALL peoples, whoever Tibetans, the Han Chinese or other people having sympathy to those suffered or respecting human rights or religious freedom worldwide.
Freeman , Tokyo,
yeah, most westeners are misled by the geneal press, like the BBC and CNN. most citizens judged this issues according to the news instead of thinking by themselves. can u speak out your opinion towards this kind of extent without any provement? like you have never been to China, and said Chinese has no human rights due to the autocratic Chinese government?
Vivi, Guangdong, China
Supporters in China keep saying 'you don't understand China' but its no different than if Britain took back Hong Kong.
You supporters have really got to start thinking through things yourselves instead of what your government tells you to think and say.
Dan, London, England
some people are just incredibly ignorant of China, so they tend to cry out some unwarranted claims. I would like to strongly recommend: first take off your ideological lens,then evidence your claim. Rememer that the pot can never call the kettle black.
peterliu, changchun China,
RE Michael Rudd - you have to take into account that the west is not innocent in the history of china and tibet. Western powers played political games with imperial china to try and weaken it so as to allow them more trade advantages (e.g. opium wars, boxer revolution.) Britain invaded tibet (Frances Younghusband) in 1904 as part of the 'great game' with Russia, and, Sir Henry McMahon negotiated the modern southern boundary of tibet in 1914 as the imperial china lay in ruins. None of this would be considered fair play or legal in the modern sense today.
Thus even in the 1950s British views on china were distorted by prior activities, and prior political aggendas. Furthermore the USA was having a witch hunt with communists and stalinists - so yet more political aggendas getting in the way.
There are a lot of very factually inacurate reports on the news sites this week. Dont beleive the BBC - they have an aggenda and are biased with no interest in reporting the facts.
Rob, Swansea, UK
During the so-called "Peaceful Liberation of Tibet" & the Chinese "Cultural Revolution" more lives of common people were lost than the entire death toll of the 2nd World War (militants and common people combined) this is 'genocide' of Tibetans & Chinese alike. Also note that 1 of every 6 Tibetans died during this "Peaceful Liberation"... all this loss of life just to be merged into a communist country whose entire government policy suffocates each Tibetan to practice their normal way of life?This is not fair. And after 50 years of attempting to catch media attention for the world's political & humanitarian support, what Chinese propaganda does is try to convert the entire purpose of the recent defiance in Lhasa into a clash of races between Hans & Tibetans. It is fallacious, & absolute stupidity of any media to encourage any kind of racial clash here. I am sure that if the mainland Chinese (of any of the many races) actually received true knowledge of recent history, even they may act.
Namla, New Delhi, India
The Chinese government is and has always been extreme in its views and has always demanded absolute obedience from its people. For decades all political dissent has been met with brutal retaliation.
The Chinese government allows no room for negotiation internally and only pays lip-service to foreign negotiations.
Like the North Koreans, the Chinese people have been brutalised into obedience and subserviance. The measures by which the Chinese authorities enforce and maintain discipline are nothing short of thow he Nazis behaved.
Yet America will say nothing and take no action as China owns two thirds of all US debt and if called-in, the US would be bankrupted in an instant and the west is scared to intervene as the majority of it's consumer goods originate from China.
It is through the economic and financial strangleholds that China has established over the west that it knows nobody will dare to intervene. Tibet's fate has been decided by western consumerism and greed.
Andy , Taunton, UK
chinese government should not talk to violence, should not give it in.
diane, den burg, holland
If this hypocritical madness goes on, I would love to see we Chinese people around the world starting a political campaign on morally, and even financially supporting Sinn Fein.
Since when Chinese Tibetan was second class citizen? They're more than the first class citizen! To pacify their desire to have a medieval theocracy over our constitution we've practically turned our Han people into second class citizens. When I took the college entrance exam I had to score more than 600 to get into any university, while by just being an ethic Tibetan they can get in the the best universities in China by scoring a laughable 200! And they can always have second and even third kids if they feel like, even though the poor land cannot possibly support than many. I'm not complaining, but what else do they want? Blocking Chinese citizen from freely traveling in their own country? Do you guys need permission from Sinn Fein to go to Belfast or risk being stoned?
Be reasonable!
Zhang Fan, Baltimore, US
I see some comments against Tibetans above (especially from the Chinese). That reminded me of my friend from Rangoon (Yangon), the city of Burma, who knew little about what's going on in the Thai-Burma border. He thought that everything was fine in the country just because it was in the city. The Chinese comments against Tibetans are just like his.
lm, Yangon, Myanmar (Burma)
Chinese government has done a lot of things in Tibet . they helped build the roads ,the infrastructure .these vigorously boost productivity in Tibet.
dylan, hubei, China
Dylan, is that the disgraceful road that they are building up to Everest Base Camp - another example of their utter disregard for the environment. Let's not get started on the lack of human rights or animal cruelty, we'd be here all day.
Liz, London,
As a Han Chinese, I have less rights than the Tibetan people. that's not equal. the government should let the Tibetans know that they are not prerogative, but equal to anyother citizens in China. the Tibetan people enjoy too much prerogative, so some of them think the government have to tolerance any illegitimate claims and they can act wildly against law and public opinion. they burned houses, shops, cars, and they killed innocent persons( as i know including some Tibetans).
Terry, Hangzhou, China
The Tibettans may be having more rights but just like a parrot is not happy in a gold cage the same way if they are not happy under Chinese rule the story ends. No rights or values or preferences come as a question. Its not one or two person but its the say of whole community i suppose.
ramanuj, delhi, India
I believe when Dalai talked about "cultrure geonicide" , he is trying to mislead the fact that Chinese culture is actually, as a whole, invaded by Western civilizations. Tibetan in Lhasa's street are mostly seen wearing suit or jacket, sometime they speak English. Do you think Han's national dress are suits or jackets? or Han people's language is English? No! They are from UK. Anybody want to boycott 2012 Olympics because of such "Culture Genocide" by Britain? or boycott the games at all because most of them are created by the British instead of themselves? Actually, Han people is protecting the Tibetan culture by compulsory Tibetan eduction for them, as well as financing Tibetan researching! Will Dalai tell you that?
David, Beijing,
i know you foreigners don't know much things about china,that's easy to understand,but ,if you really don't know anything about our country,you'd better stop talking about it!what kind of person is dalai?he only wanted to divorce tibet from china,have any of you seen such a peace demonstration?they have even killed 13 innocent people and burned one poiceman's body!!! these are the chinese people'own affairs,please,shut up.
é´å·é©¬å¸®, chenzhou, china
The Chinese have done a lot since conquering Tibet: they have flooded the country with their own indigenous people.
If a right-wing Government had attempted the things; that China
have implemented, there would be a world boycott of that regime.
The countries of the world have just been practicing appeasment
in this situation.
To hold the Olympic games in China, is the height of hypocrisy.
A Walton, Leicester, England
It may well be that we do not have a complete understanding of Tibet (Kate You, sichuan, China) but rather than tell eu not to say anything, try to tell us just what the facts are, I was quite young at the time of the Chinese conquest in the 50s but remember that world opinion was that China had no right , but due to the remotness of the place only words were used, I am not sure if Tibet was histrocily a part of China or not, but I do feel that if a people do not wish to join another country then that should be end of story. And I do know that China was not happy about the Japanese invasion of their country, where is the difference
Michael Rudd, Barking, Essex
"The Chinese don't seem to enjoy living with Tibetan's" - this isnt so. Actually the chinese love their ethinic tibettan group as brothers and treat them more favourably than their own, giving them subsidised education and lower thresholds for getting into university. Also, tibettan toursim by han chinese until last week was at an all time high.
Tibettans are mostly protesting over Han immigration into tibettan areas. Contrary to western media reports, this is not government sponsored. Infact, because of the resident permit rules non-locals (e.g. han chinese in lhasa) do not automatically get social services such as schooling for their children. Nonetheless han chinese see tibet as a place to prosper where the rest of china is too crowded. Call it 'internalised' economic migration if u like - but it is a fact of life that tibettans must learn to exploit rather than be affraid of.
Also,china does not generally suppress religion. It does however suppress religion turned political.
Rob, Swansea, UK
what can i see in chengdu sichuan province, southwest city of china where a lot of tibetan living there. though lots of policeman are patroling in the certain street, a inocent people who is on his way to work is stabed by a tibetan in the daylight. we liveing in fear, kids living in fear, but we must keep in restraint, it is so important. we respect tibetan as we respect other people in the street becouse we were educated all peoples living in china are brothers and sisters when we were kids. we know they have relagion and their own habits, we all know we need learn something about relagion and habits when we communicate with them and keep aware about it when we met them. i thought they have more rights than us, and the truth also is they have more rights. they are not second class people.
charlie, chengdu, china
Anyway, talk is better than violence
Damon Chen, Hangzhou, China
"China has and is now playing an imperalist role in Tibet. They do not like one bit that Tibet subscribes to Buddism as it's major religious source. The PRC wants all people under it's thumb to be either communists. or at least to say they are."
Funny you should say that, since Buddhism is a major religion in China proper; and Dalai Lama has described himself as half Marxist, half Buddhist.
kapmax, Hong Kong,
Interesting how the accuracy of poeples comment's is directly linked to their location, ............
Conor, Shanghai,
Chinese government has done a lot of things in Tibet . they helped build the roads ,the infrastructure .these vigorously boost productivity in Tibet.
dylan, hubei, China
I find ill informed comments and anti-commie sentiments rather amusing.
OK,so the ruling Politburo is the CCP,but the country is essentially socialist.As a foreigner,I own outright two apartments.
Equally,there's no big brother following anyone-I've been here 5 years and have never once been asked for any papers,etc.Only when I'm flying (again,quite freely) or renewing my residents permit is when I have to produce my passport.
As for the comment on Buddhism or any religious denomination,you're obviously not familiar with China,at all.There are temples,churches,mosques and shrines everywhere.
I couldn't profess to know the intricacies of the autonomous Tibetan region,or indeed the history.But what I do know is,it's an internal Chinese issue,not for the consumption of the outside world,and the rioters,who are Chinese citizens and are subject to Chinese law,should be dealt with accordingly by the authorities.
Jim James, Nanshan,Shenzhen, China
do u reli think Dalai Lama is simply a spiritual leader?when he was in Tibet, the were only slavery. Now Tibet has revolutionized with the pace of modernization and respect to traditional culture. Dalai hasn't been in exile for decades and surely doesn't know the the true picture in Tibet. His clique cruelly killed lots of Tibetan and Han Chinese civilians.Is this peaceful demonstration?Is this the voice of democracy?I really doubt.
in addition, Have you ever been to Tibet?Do you know what's Tibet like in the past???If the answer is "no", pls don't speak so facilely!Thanks!
Victor, Shanghai,
There are so many things in another country you do not understand, as you konw nothing about China's history and culture, please be quiet.
Kate You, sichuan, China
The simple answer to the Tibetan problem is: China has and is now playing an imperalist role in Tibet. They do not like one bit that Tibet subscribes to Buddism as it's major religious source. The PRC wants all people under it's thumb to be either communists. or at least to say they are. The people of Tibet are not "Right Thinking" enough for them. Most of all this is the kind of domestic problem that could prove to be a bomb shell to both the General Secretary Hu Jintao, (who also is president of China, and chairman of the Military Commission) and the 5 to 9 members of the PBSC (Political Bureau Standing Committee) The real Bogyman here is the memory of Tiananmen Sq., when the PLA stayed loyal to the government, and crushed that protest. The Commlunist Leadership MUST for their survival stay united at least outwardly in order to command the loyality of both it''s citizens and to insure the loyality of the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army), or all could come crashing down.
jim, framingham, USA
Anybody wish to boycott the 2012 London Olympics for the ongoing war in Iraq, the colonial wars in Africa and Asia, and trades of slaves to America?
Kyle, New York City, USA
The Tibetan issue isn't an simple situation to deal with. This is the same issue that is happening in Burma, as well. The world is approaching another major war that is unavoidable for every country to resolve. The Chinese don't seem to enjoy living with Tibetan's, and the Tibetan's are struggling so much to preserve their ancient culture. My great respect to the Dalai Llama for his long contribution's and accomplishment's to the world. Why are the Chinese accusing him of being a rebel? I don't understand why great people are always treated badly, when they're the one's we need to respect and honor. At the present time, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader needs to be cautious to deal with the Communist Chinese, 'cause anything can happen that will just make thing's worse for the world to respond. I will have to support the Dalai Llama's appeal to negotiate to discuss this matter.
Kou Vang, Minneapolis, U.S.A./Minnesota