I live in Wisconsin and we have safe places. Here you can drop off your child no questions asked and no police envolvement. Some of the places are all firehouses,hospitals and police stations. Why doesn't Germany have these safe places? And as for these kinds of places encourging child abandenment that idea is wrong. It simply is for the safety of the child.

Amanda, milwaukee, wi

we are a happily married couple in the uk who sadly cant exstend our own family as i cant concieve any more
then you have these mothers that cant or dont want there babies anymore is so heartbreaking to read

michelle, england, united kingdom

I know this is a trivial comment -- but there was a movie that showed one of these things in a church -- an old movie, possibly black and white. Since I've read this story, it is driving me nuts what this movie is. Somehow, people end up with a baby, and near the end of the movie decide to drop it off at the nunnery. Anyone know what it is?

Though I think the idea is somewhat disturbing, if it prevents the murder, battery, or life of neglect for a child, it's not so bad. However, birth control and education are needed to prevent the unwanted pregnancy in the first place.

Cheryl, Toronto, ON, Canada

I think its a good idea
Our society puts children on a pedistal. we are told that it is NOT acceptable not to have children or put a child up for adoption ( look at all the tv programs that tell us if we have a child adopted we will regret it & suffer for the rest of eternity)

Perhaps if adoption was more acceptable we would not have so many people raising children they don't like & don't know how to care for or worse abuse

janet, newcastle,

Giving birth is hard. But if you are alone its even harder. God gives you a gift of life. But we are not to take a life. Parents need to be a part of their children life. Know whats going on in their lifes. I don't understand why these mother's lost their way. But God does for give people every day. I hope in the hearts of others to listen and be there for the ones to come in time. Cause this will never stop. Birth is hard everyone needs someone. So think and go to a church for help. If that don't work go hospital or fire dept. Go to adoption places. There are alot of people would love to take and give a home to child. I know I loss a child. Would love to have another child or three more in our home. That is why we are looking in to adopt children. We want to love and give home to child that needs a home. So see you have to decide. You hold your life and another in your hands. So remember there are people to love them as you would if you could.

Julia Marfell-Brammer, burleson, usa

I think this trend begs bigger questions for Germany, like, what is their current policy on birth control? Morning after-pill? And abortion. Clearly, prevention is the prudent thing to do. A campaign to support birth-control before it reaches this degree of desperation. And abortion clinics in the hospital to avoid further disaster.

I read that some of these women are not psychologically stable. I imagine post-partum depression is also part of the desperate action but I fathom to guess that most of these women suffer in guilt for years to come.

After reading this I felt like I went back in time. To a time where we were less tolerant of women taking control of there sexuality with protection. Providing them the support and tools for prevention and perhaps support for single moms who need to leave a spouse should be considered in Germany's social system. That way a few babies could be saved and even loved by there maternal parent.

Butterfly Girl, vancouver,

God's mercy upon them all. Jesus wept.

Laurie Rubin, Champaign, USA/Illinois

Tryna in Melbourne, Australia, asks:

What happens to the babies after they have been left???

Well, in Italy (as well as in Germany I believe) baby drops are situated within the entrance of hospitals. They are actually thermic cradles or incubators.
As soosn as the baby is left in the drop, it is looked after by medical and nursing staff. In Italy the baby is almost immediataley available for adoption. Should it not be adopted in the early months or years, the child is raised up in an orphanage, goes to school and has a chance to learn a job by the age of 18 or go to University if he proves fit for it.

Paolo Di Mizio, Rome, Italy

Where's a pic of the baby hatch? That'd be interesting to see.

Trent, Melbourne,

I just think this is pure class. If I guy doesn't pay child support he's hunted down by the state and his wages are garnished, but for a women the state provides a bin for unwanted children.

Brett, Brisbane, Australia

This is devastating, I didnt know this was something that happened as often as I have just read.
I think anything with safety and love set up to save the souls of these babies is a great thing. What happens to the babies after they have been left??? if mother is ill and then decides to reclaim baby, can she? and how will the babies and mothers wellfare then be monitored???
Is this another poverty issue???
If it is young girls dumping their babies, havnt we a duty of care to them as well? shouldnt something safe be set in place to support them for they are only children themselves?

Tryna, Melbourne, Australia

Can we stop blaming the fathers here? Sounds like many of them don't even know of the existence of the child. Besides, don't we keep hearing from women that it is "my body, my choice"? OK, so accept responsibility for "your choice"; don't blame others. One could just imagine how a father would be treated if he was found to have dropped his child in one of these devices. He would be hunted down by the police, charged with criminal neglect, condemned as a monster and thrown in jail. And nobody would be inventing excuses for him. Face facts: every society insists, probably quite rightly, that a mother is the best person to look after a new born baby; but a very small minority of mothers have such severe mental problems that they cannot cope with a baby and cannot be trusted with one. Having a place where such mothers can put their babies is better than nothing, but it is a very poor second to solving the problem of why they can't cope, or why they have babies in the first place.

Paul Parmenter, Norfolk , UK

To Carolyn in UK/Boston,
How could a woman ever drop off their own child you ask? Well, say the woman in question is a 13, 14, 15 year old girl who, scared and possible facing an enraged family, wants only the best for her child? Or, say a younger woman who, finding herself with a child she knows she cannot keep, would rather see it in a safe home then have a termination? I've never been in this situation, but my heart goes out to the women who have. You say they will suffer? Well, they would lose a child yes, but they would know that a family had been found for their child and that he or she had a chance at a better life. Yes, there are consequences to such actions, but unplanned pregnencies happen and often a mother knows that the most heartbreaking choice could be the best.

We are all the keepesr of society, men and women.

As for the wild, many species are known to canibilize their young. Last time I checked babies were not served with your beloved brown sauce.

Rachael, Rockville, MD, USA

In Italy baby drops were introduced I believe a couple of years ago, in a few cities. But the first ever baby drop to be actually used was in Rome just three or four weeks ago. Of course baby drops are meant for mothers in distress who for one reason or other cannot or want not to keep their babies.
In Italy, also, mothers who don't want to keep their newborn are granted the right by law to leave them in hospital anonimously and with no legal consequence at all after givi8ng birth.
This, I think, has saved the lives of a lot of babies but also a lot of mothers. Because, otherwise, women who plan to abandon (or dump or kill) their newborn would not go to a hospital to give birth, but would rather do it on their own, almost certainly in abominable and hygienically unsafe conditions. Nevertheless this kind of thing still happens, in particular with newly immigrated women who are not aware of the possibilities of Italian law.

Paolo Di Mizio, Rome, Italy

Infanticide has always existed, everywhere, and was considered the norm. The extended family and clan systems (largely paterfamilias in nature) which controlled Europe until recent times either accepted or rejected the children born unto them. The rejects were killed, for whatever reason. There was no law to stop it. In feudal states, boys were more valuable, since they could grow up to be farm workers and fighting men. Some baby girls were killed, simply because of their gender. In times of famine, children were often killed. Christianity is the only force in history which has attempted to stop the practice. Our abhorrence to the practice is because of the efforts of the Church through the centuries.

Tony Francis MD , Wichita, KS/USA

This is a responsible solution to an horrific event. And it would be brilliant if these babies also could be matched with adoptive families that can provide a loving and nurturing home environment. There are so many of these families all over the world, especially in the US.

Helene, alexandria, Virginia, USA

Thank God something drastic is finally being done. Approaches such as adoption and abortion may be just as readily available over in Germany as they are here, but this 'baby drop' strategy provides a route out for women who cannot bring themselves to acknowledge the pregnancy; the denial which sets them up for the huge shock, and panic which leads to these barbaric acts.

Hannah, Dorking,

It is quite sad to see that females in Germany are so dependant and so lacking in self confidence that they need to kill their children in order to keep their partners. It also says a lot about the men that they judge their relations with the female based on her having children or otherwise. One understands that sometimes having a child is not feasible (emotionally, economically etc.) however there are options like stricter birth control methods and abortion if necessary. I believe its better to have an abortion rather than wait to bring the child into this world and then kill them and leave them like refuse or scrap by the wayside.

Regina Antony, London, UK

This is just horrible!!! Europe is truly allergic to children!!! This is the cause of the rampant liberalism that exist in the old continent. Instead of a police and legal crack down on this killer mothers and fathers, Mrs Merkel has decided to make things even easier, to have sex without any kind of responsibility from of the parents of this poor children. This is the kind of things that anti-christian socialist goverments all over Europe have been promoting for years. The think only about your own pleasure socialist theory. Another sign that liberal western societies are on a down spiral. We should go back to traditional family values of God , family and country .

F.Bonmati, New Jersey, United States

Have I missed something here... I though Germany was a modern country? So why are there so many unwanted pregnancies? Are contraceptives not widely available as they are for example, here, in the UK?

The UK has problems with unwanted pregnancies and teenage pregnancies, but have no need for a baby drop! Women either have an abortion, have the child adopted or manage.

I can understand how people can panic, but at the end of the days what these women are doing is murder.

Ruth, Durham,

"Some US states allow newborn babies to be left anonymously..."
Actually "some" in this case is 44 states out of 50, so "most" would be a little more appropriate.

Vlad, Cambridge, Massachusetts

While I can't stomach the idea that a mother would intentionally murder their own, reality is - it happens. I think baby drops are a wonderful idea, world wide.

Jeannie, Tucson, Arizona, USA

I find the headline unsuitable - at the best of times - for a serious newspaper, it is sensationalist and one would expect to find it in a Sunday tabloid, not The Times. I very much doubt it mothers are told to dump their babies, neither in Germany, nor in any other civilised country. The Baby-Klappe has been presented to mothers in distress as an alternative to avoid horrid murders as the ones which have been reported lately, not as an ideal solution. I refuse to believe The Times would encourage Anti-German attitudes, but the choice of words and tone in the article is definitely unfortunate, to say the very least...

Aida, Dublin, Ireland

I am an Indian, and few days back one European was making fun of me, saying that we Indians produce children like animals. True, we have 1 billion population, a huge percentage of them are still illiterate, and need to do much to prevent population explosion. But it is also true that even these illiterate parents love their children and are ready to die for them. Europeans are by and large rich and educated and can easily support their families, at least much better than poor Indians. But your educated people are beating their own baby to death. Shame on you. I am feeling happy that I was born in a country that is poor by wealth but much richer than you by heart. Try to be truly educated, learn to love.

Indrajit, Munich, Germany

I believe in the very near future, there will be a time that will only allow pregnancies by those people who have a reasonable chance of providing supportive loving care with all that is implied in order to give their children what is needed to become happy and productive citizens. Otherwise, society will continually be burdened by increasing ranks of psychopaths and sociopaths who will prey on the children brought up in love and respect. The end is nigh...

Ayça Gezener, Istanbul,

To the Germans who say that this is again a German bashing article – please relax. This is not needed in an article that is used to express the difficulties in modern society re unwanted pregnancy and birth. I would like to stress that if they were German bashing they would not have mentioned Herr Hanns Wall who has become a “Patenonkel” (Godfather). As an expat living in Hamburg although I do not see this as a solution to the problem I do believe it shows a way to protect babies from harm and death, although I cannot understand how a mother could do this.

Philip , hamburg,

They have had this system in Hungary for some time. It appears to work reasonably well there.

J. Knight, London, UK

This article is not anti-german - if anything it shows that German society is prepared to come up with an efficient, humane solution to a horrible problem.
There are other countries with baby-hatches - Russia and Pakistan, but sadly not in such an organised fashion.
Read Kate Adie's book on the subject of foundlings and adoptees "nobody's child". It's fascinating and heartbreaking.
And go to the Foundling Museum in London - but take a box of Kleenex!

CW, London,

Despite what some readers comment, this is not a sign of modern times. The practice is very old and has existed for centuries in most countries, though it disappeared fro a while. I'm a bit surprised why exactly the German example is discussed here - probably because it suits British stereotypes of the Germans. In Antwerp in Belgium, a 'vondelingenschuif' was opened some years ago for exactly the same purpose. The logic behind it is that a small number of children are left behind anyway, and that it is better for the baby that mothers don't do this in a public toilet or a bus shelter.

steven, Birmingham,

Yes, sadly Roger Boyles' reports often seem to be 'unbalanced' and anti-German. I keep wondering why he continues living in Berlin if he is so critical of everything German. But I digress.
These 'baby drops' have been around for many years, they are not a new invention. So far they have proven to be quite successfull and I rather have a mother drop her baby there than stuffing it in a box in the attic or dumping it in a bin like it frequently seems to happen in the UK.
Still, I wonder why in this day and age we cannot find a different solution. And why indeed these poor mothers are all left alone. Where are the fathers? Why is there no friend or family member to support them? And why did they end up with an unwanted pregnancy anyway, when contraception is easily available these days? The number of unwanted pregnancies is rising again - why? What is going wrong?

Kauri, London, UK

I agree with Carolyn, a lot of this blame seems to fall on the mothers alone, while where are the fathers in all these cases.

What saddens me even more, is that some of these parents actually have the heart to rid of a human soul w in the manners that they did, and without remorse as it seems. It boggles my mind that someone can be so cruel and heartless, yet, to be so unconcerned of their own flesh and blood.

Khalid, Kuwait, Kuwait

Fathers not concerned (hello??) - If the fathers were allowed to be with their babies chances are they would all be still alive. Fathers do not suffer post-natal depression and are generally safer. Unfortunately, more and more fathers are removed from their children's lives each day.

Leon, Reading, UK

Its a much better idea than women who find themselves pregnant and abort their babies.
Also we have to agree that the article is written in a way that as usual is anti -German in both tone and balance.

Myke & Dr.Miriam Rosenthal-English, Füssen, Deutschland

This issue is complex and women, their partners and any other children that live with them are all in need of support, though not necessarily the same type or administered at the same time. For some women the Baby-Klappe may be the answer, and could save the lives of their off-spring; however, it should only be one option. For many of us it is hard to imagine taking such action in a modern, affluent society like Germany, but desperation is often coupled with isolation. Much of the language used for this action such as 'dumping' is, in my opinion, insensitive and likely to lead to further isolation of the people affected.

Marcus, London, UK

Obviously the life of the baby is the most important thing here - the mother is distressed probably and not able to make a better decision; the father is not concerned (hello??) and so the burden of the trouble falls on the little baby who is not equipped to deal with it - Thank God for the good samaritans who have found a solution to the problem, may God reward them accordingly.

Privileged great-grandma to seven little kids!

Margaret Hooker, Kapa'a, HI

The image of the article, so simple, is really terrible. It must be very difficult dump your baby in one of these places, but I think it is better than kill him/her, of course. It is a good solution

Carla, Ferrol, Spain

German bashing again! I am sure one could have used
a different word than "dump" for an excellent idea that
has probably saved many babies' lives.

Diane Binder, Moenchengladbach, Germany

I agree with most of the posting in that we have completely lost our morals in this enlightened age. If you start with the premise that sex is ok regardless of how old you are or with whome it is then you have to expect some consequences. These start with STD's, abortions, increase in giving up children for adoption and now infanticide on growing scales.

I support the mothers ability to choose what to do with her own body and do not believe we should go back to victorian values but we have moved the balance to allow almost anything to be acceptable and have to start getting real.

Underage sex should carry a stigma and any child of 13 who has a baby should rightly be seen as being wrong otherwise all the other 13 year olds think it is ok.

We need in more morals in this day and age not less.

Joseph Kellie, Edinburgh, Scotland

It would be interesting to see figures from other countries, for example the UK. Perhaps the statistics would tell us that the numbers are actually very low in comparison.

I do not think that this is a real problem in Germany, rather something made up by the media, but in fact statistically insignificant.

Matthias, Birmingham,

Modern society may be just ostentious,not ideal.Some people struggle to rationalize contradictions.Dumping babies? I don't dare to judge which is right especially in this complexible and unstable world.Qualm.

Scott, Seoul, South Korea

'Sound like German men are the ones causing the problems - why have they not supported the mothers of their children? Why do these women feel so intimidated by their partners that they would kill their own children?'

oh, that'd be right. When a woman kills a baby, it's OBVIOUSLY the mans fault. i mean, imagine a woman doing something bad! that's just crazy talk

Joshua, Sydney, Australia

I'd like to add some explanation. What the author did not tell is that those "Baby Klappen" are ever located at the back-side of hospitals. Secondly those klapps have a historic background - during the centurys desperat mothers could left their children at the gates of a monastery. One additional point that is also not named here is that the mother can pick up their child up to two month later without a fine (this happens in 2 of 3 cases!!!). This accommodate that desperat mothers ofer are extended after the birth.

If you like the idea or not (I'm not a fan of it, those mothers should not become pregnant), most childs have been killed within half an hour after birth. Those hatches gives the oportunity to desperat deeds! They are no garbage cans as one would suppose after reading this article.

Marco Hartmann, Karlsruhe, BW, Germany

Some of women dropping off newly-born infants must be irresponsible. At least, they are not well prepared for possible consequence caused by their behaviour. Thus,
conception education is essential, especially for young mother. Moreover, psychological instruction is not neglected for mothers who treat badly their babies.
Do you think it is proper to show them a video of dropping off babies or treating babies badly? In my opinion, when these mothers watch it, she may be touched to some extent, which will put them rethink about themselves.

Lur, a cold city, CN

Sound like German men are the ones causing the problems - why have they not supported the mothers of their children? Why do these women feel so intimidated by their partners that they would kill their own children?

Dale, Wellington, New Zealand

This shocking reality is horrible! Has our sense of morality and ethics been dumped in the bin? It's sad to think that the "MODERN" world has evolved into a society of criminals--parents who kill or dump their unwanted children.

tecs, La Trinidad,

In l948 I was in Batista's Cuba and we went to a church that had a "lazy susan" in the wall surrounding the church.
Mothers were encouraged to place their unwanted baby on the "lazy susan" ring the bell that was in the wall and turn the "lazy susan" around so that it faced the inside of the wall and was visible to the Nuns. In this fashion the mother of the infant could be annonymous and the Nuns would care for the baby.

Ruth Marks, watertown, USA CT

sad, sad, sad!

Keith, Jacksonville, Florida

In New Jersey you can give up your baby anonymously but not on a doorstep. You have to actually go into the "Safe Haven" - hospital, fire station, police dept or similar - and hand the baby over. After that the phrase is "No Name, No Blame, No Shame". It is also assumed that you are giving the baby up for adoption so no hanging around waiting to see if the mother comes forward again.

Jane, Edison, New Jersey

How sad. Women are supposed to be the keepers of society and to nuture their young. How could a woman ever drop off their own child or abandon one after having it grow, kick in their womb and look for their mother for nurishment after being born?

Would you find this type of behavior in the wild of nature? A bear, fox or a bird? I think not. They will fight to the end to keep their spieces solvent.

The women that have had to do this will suffer up the road horribly.

Perhaps the men as well as women need to understand what is inolved in a quick shag. . .it is never without consequences, emotionally or physically.

carolyn, surrey, england/boston

New Jersey has a "Safe Haven" policy but unlike your "last resort" point you can't just "leave" them on hospital or fire station doorsteps. You can take them in - to hospitals, fire stations, police stations or 1st aid Squads - and hand them over with the understanding that you are giving them up for adoption (you can change your mind within a certain amount of time). The phrase that they advertise this under is "No name, no shame, no blame"! It has saved numerous babies in the few years since it was enacted

Jane, Edison, New Jersey

In CA, USA we have something system similar to that.. A mother can drop off a baby with no questions asked at any hospital, fire station and police station.

linda, los angeles, usa

Proof that for liberals, human life has no value.

Until life is considered sacred, stop compaining about the war in Iraq or capital punishment.

john karpiscak, Fredericksburg, Virginia, USA