As the German government and Eurocrats try and force through a rehashed version of the rejected consititution they only illustrate the increasing irrelevance with which they see the democratic positions taken by huge chunks of European society. Irrespective of my views on the type of Europe I would like to see, this superior attitude as though they were custodians of some higher purpose for Europe, ignoring national referenda as if they were mistakes, or hiccups in an inevitible process towards closer political integration. The fact is that socially and economically Europe is now more divided than ever. Protectionist and free trade countries remain deadlocked on CAP and trade reform and while some countries are legalising gay marriage others are practically outlawing homosexuality altogether. The institution of the EU is crucial for maintaining peace and stability, as well as promoting democracy in Europe, but how can they impose more integration when we still disagree on so much?

Chris Grocock, LONDON,

It is such a shame that so many wish to sacrafice the not so distanct future for the unrealistic comfort of today. People such as Reinart really should stop living in the past. Also, Reinart and his friend should be very careful for that which they wish; the wish may come true. A New Common Market, compromised of the UK, Eastern Europe and a few others is an intriquing concept...not practical, but intriquing. Reinart, please think about your children and grandchildren.

Tom, Sacramento, USA

Believe it or not, the original idea behind the Constitutional Treaty was to make the EU more democratic and bring it closer to the people. that still seems to me to be sensible. But what do the critics really want. Bury the Constitution completely and keep the EU as it is? Surely not. Leave? But if we left, wouldn't there be two equally unacceptable scenarios? The EU without Britain would be strong and, in effect, push us around; or the EU would be weak, even disintegrate, with the result that someone else would push us around... Take your choice: Putin's Russia or Bush's America.

peter coldrick, thorpeness, suffolk

Tis very simple the solution to decision making in the EU. Those Countries that contribute to the budget, have a weighted vote according to their contribution. The "hand-out/charity" Countries like Spain, Poland etc should just feel lucky they receive billions of euros worth of aid!

Ian, Glasgow, UK

the General de Gaulle was against Britains entry in the EU ( then called Common Market ). He was right. We should have never let them in. And the sooner they leave now taking with them the highly subsidised ( by the West European taxpayer ) Poland and Czech Republic , the better it is for Europe.

Reinartz22, Berlin, Germany

All these negative little Englanders... Look what the European UNION has brought us at a cost of a little (nostalgic past) sovereignty.

The EU has come to represent all that is good and positive in modern society: Freedom, Friendship, Harmony, Agreement, Justice, Democracy, Progress, Unity, Peace, Cooperation, Pride, Security, not to mention the simple feel good factor of being European, when Britain alone is so gloomy.

Isn't It about time that the sad old "get out" brigade stopped winging and started enjoying the real achievements of the Union:

Freedom of movement anywhere within the Union, Freedom to work anywhere within the Union, Freedom to live anywhere within the Union, Access to schools, healthcare and social security anywhere within the Union. I think I would rather leave England than lose all that!.. Hmm better still shouldn’t those who would like to see England leave the EU be happier elsewhere: I am sure that the US would be happy to have them.

Peter GODDARD, EPSOM, England, EU

If you gave the british people the right to hang their fellow man they'd take it. If you gave them the right to reject the European constitution (from the first to the last) they would reject it. What the british people want has got nothing to do with it!

Jack, Nelson,

Typical British hypocrisy - how can the treaty have been 'democratically rejected' when most countries and most referenda in Europe approved it first time round?

Andrew Crompton, London,

You're right, it's time to leave - the UK! Overpriced housing, obsession with battles against the French, drunks, bad food, reality TV, rain (lots), congestion, poor social benefits, poor social support systems, obessession with knocking America, boy racers, insularity, growing xenophobia, assuming that culture involves watching BBC1 on a Saturday night, stereotypical views of Europe...

Jon Kingsbury, Nottingham, United Kingdom

Yet again, we see that many countries on the continent have elites who have no deep understanding of ,nor respect for democracy.It is hardly surprising ,as many of them have only had it post 1945.But,with the British concept of free men surrending some independence in return for services from the state, we are always going to have a problem with the Merkels of this world ,who see the state as graciously giving the people some freedoms, asthey deem fit.This philosophical and cultural difference will always be there and cause problems.The solution is a 2 speed EU.Firstly, for the statists and centralists like Germany who want full integration.No prizes for guessing who would be top dog.Secondly ,a group that concentrate on the free market and have no political integration.So no constitution ,no Euro and no "European Bill of Human Rights",with the individual parliaments remaining the supreme legal power.In other words the UK,Poland etc to become enhanced Norways.

Rodney G James, Brasschaat, Belgium

What are we afraid of in the UK? Afraid that we might rise from the bottom of the targets such as teenage pregnancy, obesity, binge drinkning, violence? Wake up Britain - the EU is not the problem. The key nations in the EU do not have these problems. Thats why I now live in Germany´and we are loving it where life has a quality of its own.

Richard, Germany, Germany

Those countries that haven't gotten round to sorting their own constitutions should probably sort that out before whinging about the EU trying to sort one out.

*cough*Britain*cough*

Martin Everett, St Andrews,

Before signing up to anything, the UK must be allowed a referendum on this, as first promised by the Labour government. The problem is, there are so many foreigners here (whether they be EU member state citizens or come from elsewhere in the world) who are now entitled to vote here, that the vote of the indigenous UK citizen may be skewed by this chunk of people. However, these sleazy politicians should not be allowed to get around the referendum by calling it a EU Treaty not a EU Constitution. The will of the people must be adopted – not the will of the politicians. All this ‘treaty’ will do is create a Federal State of Europe of which the UK will be a small part with only a small voice. Germany must not be allowed to dictate the agenda, as they are presently doing. I can’t see French & Dutch people allowing their governments to go along with this ‘treaty’ & by-pass their vote, so we wouldn’t be on our own. British people must make a stand & stop Blair/Brown selling us down the river

Lynda Plum, London, england

Before signing up to anything, the UK must be allowed a referendum on this, as first promised by the Labour government. The problem is, there are so many foreigners here (whether they be EU member state citizens or come from elsewhere in the world) who are now entitled to vote here, that the vote of the indigenous UK citizen may be skewed by this chunk of people. However, these sleazy politicians should not be allowed to get around the referendum by calling it a EU Treaty not a EU Constitution. The will of the people must be adopted – not the will of the politicians. All this ‘treaty’ will do is create a Federal State of Europe of which the UK will be a small part with only a small voice. Germany must not be allowed to dictate the agenda, as they are presently doing. I can’t see French & Dutch people allowing their governments to go along with this ‘treaty’ & by-pass their vote, so we wouldn’t be on our own. British people must make a stand & stop Blair/Brown selling us down the river

Lynda Plum, London, england

This is the usual shabby EU politicking which seeks to deny its citizens the democratic right to vote on its major paradigm shifts in policy. This is neither worthy of the EU itself nor its current president of the Council, Angele Merkel. Perhaps it was too much to expect her to leave her East German past completely behind her? My thoughts at this time, however, are with Gordon Brown as he is faced with a defining crisis before he has even moved into 10 Downing Street. Of course he has no choice. He must reject the Merkel proposals outright - or face the just demands of the Opposition parties in the House of Commons for a referendum and, inevitably on the rejection of the new treaty by the British people, an immediate general election. Either which way he loses. Let him listen just one more time to "Scotland the Brave" and then give Ms Merkel her marching orders!

Dr David Green, Athens, Greece

the Mafia are more honerable..........less corrupt .....and albeit unfortunately in their case ...more competant...
What do we have acting in our name? liars and cheats who quite openly almost boast as to their intention to mislead us as to the true meaning of what they are about -porporting to act in our name.
Whatever the merits or otherwisw of this 'ORIGIONAL' and rejected constitution document one can have no faith in those who now strive to impose it.
The communists were excellent at telling people what was good for them.....................

mike, oxford, england

Actually, England should be allowed to leave the EU if it so desires, allowing everyone else to remain inside.

Jon Kingsbury, Nottingham, United Kingdom

Britain already has a constitution. It is enshrined in laws and customs that have developed over a 1000 years of our history. Once we were taught these things in school, but now there has been a dumbing down led by foolish men. The evidence is all around in Britain today, which is losing its way and suffering the consequences. The central tenet of our largely unwritten constitution is the Queen's Coronation Oath, central to which is her promise, on behalf of the nation, to maintain the laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel. This central pivot of our constitution is being betrayed by attempts to frame a humanistic constitution in Europe. We are in danger of betraying our people even more, and of turning our backs on the One True God of the Bible, who protected us for many years. It is time to renew our existing constitution, not look for a weak alternative. This could have wonderful consequences in our homes and communities, Let's remember the ancient paths and walk in them.

Clifford Denton, Norwich,

Yes to Giscrad d'Estaing - the members of the EU have only too often put a gloss on radical proposals in an attempt to arrive at an acceptable compromise amongst themselves and one they could sell to their national constituents. That glossing over of differences in ambiguity is dangerous because what may seem like a declatamatory statement with no legal force under English law is construed as a firm legal obligation under European law - eg the ever closer union of the peoples of Europe. So all power to the elbow of the Brown ally who warns about textual ambiguities that might unravel to bite on the British legal system in years to come.

MDA, lONDON,

The push for a new treaty stems from the fact that 6 member States out of 27 now account for 75% of the EU's population and economic activity and they wish to see this weight better recognised. This is the one common interest most likely to lead to a compromise. Acceptance of an amending treaty is a major, not a minor, concession by Merkel as it suggests that the legal nature of the European Union (which builds on but does not subsume the European Community as would have happened under the failed Constitution) will remain unchanged. This has been forced on her by Sarkozy who is, in fact, leading the negotiations. It also explains why the outcome may be acceptable to the UK. The losers, the medium-sized and smaller member States, lack the necessary cohesion to resist. Vive le directoire.

Denis O'Leary, Tipperary,

This is very typical of Blair, he stirs up the 'feral' media argument to create lots of noise while engaging in this piece of shoddy treaty introduction.

This smacks of the old Roman Imperial succession process - foist a disasterous set of circumstances onto your successor so that when they make a 'pigs ear' of it people will say that the predecessor was not so bad.

Tne only problem is that we, the ordinary people of the UK, will have to live with this while 'brand Blair' will move on to greater revenue opportunities.

John, Berkshire,

Why do we not have a referendum with the choice being to have the new EU in all its additional powers or to remove our country from the EU altogether. This would mean those countries that are 100% for the constitution and all its implications can at least be together and those who mistrust the EU can get back to basics and agree a common trading agreement; this was the original idea that was sold to us after all.

My vote would be to get out of Europe entirely with all its consequences.

Joseph Kellie, Edinburgh, Scotland

Why is the British government against a set of "legally binding fundamental human rights'? I understand being against bureaucracy and powerful unelected officials but "human rights"??

Maybe in this way they can still keep watching us and continue eroding our civil liberties unchallenged.

Basil, Cambridge,

As a non-British I cannot but wonder when you will finally be able to decide whether you are a par of the EU or the 51st state of the USA. Look, the imperium is all gone and you are not so important as you might think...

Heikki Erno, Brussels, Belgium

Can we please leave the EU now, before that right os taken away from us by European Law?

..........and no more of this talk about little Englanders - England won't get any bigger within this European federal apparatus - I'm confident the majority in then UK only wanted a free market - not all this superstate guff - we should have the right to vote on this.

Andy Iddon, London, UK

Of course the government does not want a referendum. No government in europe truely does. The government hates the idea that the public may have any say in how things are run.

The british government know that they would lose a referendum hands down. Look at the north-east of england's referendum on 'self government', which resulted in 85% no-votes.

This government cannot risk a referendum, as the vote will be so high against europe, they would have little option but to pull out of the EU entirely.

Arthur, Newcastle,

In articles about the EU could you make it clear that when you write 'most countries' you mean 'most governments' and not the citizens or voters of those countries. Throughout the EU the citizens are ignored by governments and bureaucrats pushing policies the exact opposite of the people's wishes. It is not Britain which is sidelined or likely to be overruled, but the people of Europe. The EU is surely the most undemocractic 'democratic' institution.

tom moncrieff, london, england

Why shouldn't the English be protected like the rest of the EU, with a charter of fundamental rights?
Why does the British government think that we, the English, should have fewer rights than the rest of the Union?
I would vote for a stronger Europe as I have much more faith in the way Europe collectively rules itself than in Gordon Brown's "vision" of things.

Peter GODDARD, EPSOM, England, EU

Is my failure to agree to the UK being swallowed by a new European State acceptable grounds for claiming political asylum?

Virginia Beech, London,

While we force democracy onto Iraq, it seems that our own democracy is once again under threat from Europe, let us have a referendum and let us escape the EU for good.

Ian Waite, Bristol,

Message to David Cameron:
Re: A referendum.
Could it be that your hour might be about to come? No retreat on this issue, please!

richard rondel, richmond, UK

Whenever I discuss the topic I find that by far the majority are in favour of leaving the EU. It is a failed institution which cannot even manage its own finances. For far too long it has bowed to the opinion of France and Germany and when legislation is introduced to their disadvantage they ignore it. The nett benefit to Britain is zilch and the sooner we leave the better.

trevorjd, Torbay, Devon

Come on girls. In or Out.

We have quite sufficient bureaucratic playgrounds without the EU thankyou.

michael murphy, brightlingsea, england

We must stay out of Europe, maintain our own currency and resist at all costs the slide towards one world government and one world currency.

I suspect there will be a run on Sterling in the next few years due to the reckless lending our banking system and we will be forced into the Euro by default.....without a referendum. So much for democracy!

Matt Myers, Redhill, UK

Time to leave the party, I believe.

Nick Chalk, Devon, UK

What breathtaking arrogance. As predicted by many, a democratically rejected constitution is now to be foisted upon us by the back door.

The public does indeed perceive that Europe is organised behind their backs by jurists and diplomats. The public is correct.

Brown should allow a referendum and hope that the British public soundly rejects it. We've never been asked to approve Europe in its present and projected form and it is time we were.

Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK

Why are those most intensely favoring a powerful EU regime so fearful of an informed citizenry? How cowardly and dangerous to rationalize keeping the people ignorant by asserting that they should not be "overburdened" with knowledge.

How ironic and honorable it was for Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, very author of the failed constitution, to lament that such chicanery was being used to achieve what he sought through more legitimate openess.

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California