Roger Boyes in Warsaw
We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
Poland is ready to let next week’s EU summit collapse rather than accept a new constitutional treaty that eats away at its voting power, President Kaczynski told The Times.
The Polish leader said that he was not going to buckle under the diplomatic pressure that is piling up on Warsaw.
“Poland has the right to protect its raison d’état, its interests,” he said. Europe could come to agreement, but “cooperation with and within Europe should not be dependent on agreement with Germany”.
The summit seems set to be an epic duel, with Polish resistance to the constitutional treaty perhaps triggering moves towards a two-speed Europe and a fundamental shift in thinking about EU integration. Mr Kaczynski – who had quick-marched out of talks in Warsaw with President Sarkozy of France for the interview with The Times – said he could not countenance a result in which Poland emerged as one of the losers.
The French leader’s visit was part of a broader diplomatic offensive. Alfred Gusenbauer, the Austrian Chancellor, saw the president’s twin brother Jaroslaw, the Polish Prime Minister, this week. Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the Spanish Prime Minister, arrives today.
Crucially, the twins will travel to Berlin on Saturday for a last ditch attempt to save the summit. Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, presented the possible failure of the summit in grim terms yesterday.
The current proposed formula of double majority voting – with Council decisions requiring the approval of at least 55 per cent of member states, representing at least 65 per cent of the population – discriminates against smaller countries, said the Polish President. “The system cannot change in a way that would make us the greatest losers.” The Czechs, he stressed, seemed willing to fight the Polish corner.
The Poles are proposing the “square-route” system, which will give nine votes to Germany (which has a population of 81 million) and six to Poland (more than 36 million). This, say the Poles, is a reasonable snapshot of the balance of power between Berlin and Warsaw.
“That is already a compromise,” the President, 57, said, speaking in the Poniatowski Palace. Everything that diluted Polish rights guaranteed under the Nice Treaty represented a weakening of Polish clout. The Poles were not willing to go any further.
He stopped short of threatening to veto the treaty, but said: “I do not exclude the possibility . . . I’d like this to be a success, but not a success where some come out as winners and others as losers.”
Although there may be an element of presummit brink-manship, the Poles are fighting on one issue alone – voting rights – and so bargaining on other issues becomes difficult, if not impossible.
Poland’s stance hinges on fears that if it is weakened, other countries – in particular Russia – could start to throw its weight around.
But the President is no lover of Germany, either: his parents fought in the Warsaw uprising against Nazi occupation; one of his controversial acts as Mayor of Warsaw was to demand reparations from the Germans for the destruction of the Polish capital.
One argument deployed by Germany is that Poland – which is lobbying strongly for Ukrainian accession – will jeopardise further eastern enlargement if it drags its feet on the constitutional treaty. “I do not accept this argument,” said the President, “because cooperation with and within Europe should not be dependent on agreement with Germany. That cannot be the point. It is Germany that first of all needs to understand Poland.”
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Territorial compensations? But the borders are open in Europe anyway. Money? FYI my boyfriend's grand-mother who's Polish gets a financial compensation from Germany. (With the money she has bought 2 flats in her town !!). This is going to far. Does Poland want to reign on the UE? If this -jealous-country doesn't accept the rules, it can leave (certainly not until it will suck all money and profits from the UE).
BX, Leeds,
Some polish people are traitors.Every nation has traitors.In due case I like polish negotiations.I wish all small EU countries are fighting Polish way.
Rajmund, london,
I'm neither Polish nor German, and to me it seems that the Poles are in the right in this dispute. They're just using their voting power to protect their interests. They don't think it would be good for Poland for the EU to become a German-French directorate, probably aligned with the Russians.
The Germans present every German demand as a "European" position, when in reality there is no single European interest, only multiple national interests that partially overlap and partially diverge.
Matt, Northampton, Massachusetts, USA
I admit I know little about Poland.Except their contribution in music and science.I think the brothers Kaczynskys are an unfortunate fact for Poland.. Their behaviour is unreasonable The last War is water under the bridge and should be told that. They are either in EU or if they don't like it, THEY GET OUT.
Antonia Hanna, Sydney, Australia
the square root concept proposed by Poland is correct as it gives any chance (of being fairly treated by EU) to smaller countries like Malta, Cyprus, etc... if the giants like Germany or France do not understand the concept, then there is simply no future for EU... and something else, my dear Westerners, learn mathematics (Poles have always been good in it), cause this means more than banking
Leszek K, Sydney, Australia
Modern Germans are not to blame for the Nazi's. But from my experience, many Germans still have an arrogant attitude which allowed the Nazi's to rule. Also, many Germans do not like the Poles for no rational reason. I have met many Germans and I always ask: Are you proud to be German? Usually, they say yes or just walk away. Those who say yes, I ask: Why? Then they walk away.
Aaron Litzmann, London, England
No one is blaming today's Germans for the war. What people are blaming them for is the fact that they are arrogant and irrationally bite the hand that fed them (the US) for fifty years. And yes, the US (and its allies) is trying to bring democracy to Iraq. They are certainly doing more there than the Germans (not to mention their French masters) have ever done. Germans talk of Europe when it is convenient for them to do so but when they want jobs on the Ostsee pipeline then suddenly European kameradenschaft goes out the door. Poles may have damaged lots of porcelain but it was Meissen porcelain not European one. Germans better grow up if they want to lead.
Cato, los angeles, CA
Well the summit is over,
the new system is the double majority with some exaptions. The twins agreed as it came fore sure that the other Europaen countries would sign the treaty. And Poland would therefore be self-isolated. "We will die for the root" they said before and we want compensation for the war. Now some commentaries here say negotiations came to Poland like : "hands up or you die!"
I´m tired of beeing blamed for a war, that was 35 years before I was borne. I say this likewise to Poles and Britons. And I´m also tired of hearing the eternal Polish victimhood story ( in Irak they do not occupy, they bring peace and democracy!? The same democracy they want to bring us to Brussels?) Fact is that the twins destroyed a lot of European porcelain. When Poland will get the chairmanship in 2011 it may try to repair.
Alexander, Frankfurt, Germany
If Niecee expires anyway who said the voting system cannot be retained? In that case we are back at the beginnig of Poland's accession. Hard negotiations, but negotiations. Not hands up or you die. Agree on our proposals or we take back the funds.
What Poland is afraid of is that the Europe once again will care of their own interest, not the common one, and will sucrifice Poland when it finds that sutable. The best way to ensure that Poland's interests are taken into consideration is to secure enough voting power for it.
Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK
For those who do not know: The treaty of Nizza regulary expires in 2009. For an amplification of the EU it is necessary to change the system of voting. Nizza codifies that there will be no countries becoming new members without a new treaty /constitution. So it is not true that Germany wants to change an "agreed voting formula". -Nizza expires. And I think that Nizza is extremly inequitous. I also think that the voting system of double majority is already a compromise! So if EU means to repress voting rigths of Germans (the twins don´t want to repress any other nation in Europe, as they say) we should stop EU now and start again. Maybe with a "coalition of the willing" and equal voting rigths for every citizen of Europe and without antagonism. This is, what this time Poland should understand.
Alexander, Frankfurt, Germany
Poland is not bashing Germany. Germany wants to change the current voting formula. Poland objects. And then the Germans bash Poland. The moment Poland disagrees, Germans start talking about their "former lands". Who is it that brings history into this? Germany should grow up and compromise - that would be a hallmark of a true leader. Instead, even though it presides over the EU, it's just pushing its own national agenda.
In the end Poland will compromise but the Germans want all or nothing.
Cato, los angeles, CA
You are right Alexander that 6 votes of 36 million citizens (Poland) is not fair in comparision to 8 votes for about 80 million citizens (Germany). But so it is now. The voting system you are going to change is the voting system you have agreed on when the ten countries were joining EU. It's almost like ancient Egipt inviting Jewish to enter the kingdom and after a while turning them into slaves.
The proposed voting system is much less attractive from Poland's point of view than the one which was guaranteed on our accession. It is in our interest to keep on that and you can't deny it, can you? We have fought for that for many long nights of negotiations and put a lot of effort in it. And what for? Just to give it up a few years later? It does not make sense. It is you, who have changed your minds suddenly without respecting the agreed voting formula.
BTW why do you mention about 1945? We are not talking about the past but about the future.
Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK
I think the whole affair is indeed a clear example of the current Polish government's Germanophobia. If it weren't so, why are the Poles bashing Germany, and NOT THE 25 OTHER COUNTRIES ( including tiny ones like Malta and Cyprus ) who also oppose the Polish proposal? Poland could bash France, or the UK, or Finland as well, bt all they do is portray the affair as if it was a struggle between a sinister Germany and a heroic Poland.
Rule of the majority is a democratic principle, and joining the EU, making it work means goving up some souvereignty. Poland knew this ahead of its accession, which was, above all, supported by Germany.
John, London,
The whole point of the US Senate was to give equal representation to states of different sizes. And those were states that were worried about being outvoted. Here we are talking about independent nations. Why is that the Germans can't compromise? Putting aside that they had agreed to the Nicee formula before accession and are now shamelessly renegotiating that deal.
The German minority in the Polish parliament is a perfect example - they are allowed to be in the parliament even though if regular rules (5% support) applied to them, they would not make the cut. Polish citizens are disenfranchised on a per vote basis b/c the Germans' votes count more but Poland tolerates that (and it should). It's not always about population numbers.
Cato, los angeles, CA
To Peter from Munich.
Yes, you're right - Poland is still occupying 'your' former 'land in the east'. There's plenty of soldiers on the streets of every city, town and village in that area. There's curfew for Germans in force and they are provided only with limited rations of food and Poles are about to implemment German ghettoes and introduce concentration camps in the nearest future. The Red Cross tries to deliver international help but it is oppressed by the polish government.
Is that, what you wrere trying to say by saying occupied land? Typical german alike attitude...
I send all those, who believed in this, to one of my recent replies given to one of Germans here.
Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK
To Steinmann,
Poles living in Germany may have the municipal vote rights but do they have political in Bundestag (chamber of german Parliement)? What about Turkish minority in Germany?
Germans by origin in Poland (with polish citizenship)? Guaranteed presence in Sejm (lower chamber of polish Parliement)... One of the reasons of creating Opole Voivodship (Opole County) was German minority still living there to ensure that the Poles won't override that minority in local elections. Do you provide anything close to that in Germany?
We were talking about political rights on the national level and now you go down to municipal.
Who is biasing data here?
What's the point of mentioning lustration process in Poland here? It's not your business, I would kindly say, as it not Poland's business how you deal with Stasi (East German political Police) members...
As Frank pointed it out... there's nothing more than propaganda in what you are saying here. And you make no point at all.
Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK
Frank, now we are coming to the point. The dilemma is that there will always be a conflict between the individual voters rights and the the rights of the member states. If you balance on only one of these 2 aspects the other one is going to be contorted and strained. Let us assume that Luxemburg as a state wants equal influence like Poland or Germany. This is an extreme example, but yet the Lusemburg claims would be justified if we look through the member state spectacles only. What is corrupted is the "one (wo)man one vote principle" which is a very central democratic principle. Introducing a somehow qualified minimum majority cannot finally solve the problem . As long as this is an association of member states this conflict will endure. If it would become a real union building and time goes by the member state discussion would be still importan as e.g. among German laender but the one man one vote principle will be the the higher democratic good. And it can work, we ´ve shown ...
Steinmann, Berlin, Germany
Steinmann, You want to get voting power based on non-citizens. This is the root of our argument. So do not twist it. In Australia, any permanent resident after 4 years of residence can get citizenship. You have second and third generation of non-citizens who can not take part in federal elections.
Germans in Poland enjoy the status of national minority , Poles in Germany do not enjoy that status. So which state is nationalistic?
As for lustration laws and the judges: in Eastern Europe many judges collaborated with the communists and now they pass judgments about collaboration. After WW II, the same happened in Western Europe with Nazi collaboration.
German press still sees Poles as ubermenschen so you always spin some propaganda about the Poles in order to get your points. The truth is that you do not behave in a democratic fashion. There was not much debate about the coming treaty, only bulling.
Frank, Adelaide, Australia
The polish position is absolutely risky for themselves. There is no bigger threat to the integrity of the EU than throwing around veto-threats all the time.
The poles should take a look at why Germany is no threat to Poland today: We are sitting the same boat. We still do. If the poles continue this path, one day we might cease to do so.
We havn´t forgotten that Poland is still occupying our former land in the East. But we don´t demand it back for the sake of good relations. In case the Poles are unable to cooperate, I am sure a future german government will easily find an agreement about the polish question with a russian government tarred with Putin´s brush.
peter, munich,
By Wolfgang Münchau
What is a fair voting system for the European Union? [. .. ]The Poles have threatened a veto unless the second of those two numbers is based on the square root of the population size to reduce Germany's influence. It sounds arbitrary, but the Poles have a point. Mathematics is on the side of Poland.
To an uninitiated observer, this does not appear immediately obvious. Does it not seem fair that the voting power of a country in an international organisation should be proportional to its population size? The answer is no. In fact, it is totally unfair. The reason is that effective voting power in multi-nation settings such as the EU depends not on voting size but on the ability to form winning coalitions. Large countries are better placed than their relative population size would suggest.
Frank, Adelaide, Australia
Frank, all EU member citizens have municipal voting rights in Germany. So do our Polish citizens. Dont throw with stone while sitting in a glasshouse. Since 1984 there are no state voting rights any more for non-Australian citizens in Australia. You dont have them but Germany must ? You might also have noticed that the Polish government is almost isolated among the member states. In the news you would have noticed that the Polish high court has given a big blow against the unconstitutional lustration process in Poland, which Polish critics regarded as an attempt to criminalize the Polish opposition. Apart from accusations I have not seen you really delivering an open discussion so far. Whenever I show you your data are biased or wrong you react only with further bashing. So please stop applying double standards. BTW To the Polish German minority it was recently announced their rights might be restricted. The name of the speaker was Premier Kaczynski. Equal rights ?
Steinmann, Berlin, Germany
Steinmann, you maybe disappointed, it is not only the government that supports square root system. The biggest opposition party supports the government on that.
Easy to blame Poland for its real failings or alleged failings: homosexuality, witch-hunting and etc. Poland is a small country, you always kick the small. It is easy to do so.
Why Germany should not be punished by the UE for not allowing fathers from divorced Polish-German marriages to speak Polish with their children during visits. Why Germany should not be taken to account for discriminating millions of its residents who cannot get citizenship? Are there no brave newspapers to attack the mighty?
As for what Poland wants, I think you really have not idea what Poland wants. If the UE is going to last, it has to be build on equal rights. Where is the right to debate? Poles are acquainted with German rhetoric about Poles and Poland: "stupid", "suicidal", "senseless" Can you come up with a debate or prefer bulling?
Frank, Adelaide, Australia
Well, I don't think all of the ideas of our gouverment are good, but in the matter I support Kaczynksis.
Krzysztof /Chris/, Poznan, Poland
Mateusaz, I never believed in that foolish slogan, that Poland will be going to die for a square root. I know that this is propaganda and has more to do with inner political fishing for compliments. I also understand that the monolithic view the press is giving by mixing up the present Polish government with its citizens is misleading. However I wonder what makes this Government witchhunting teletubbies as promoting homosexuality and what i read about the lustration process also does not give me much confidence in the democratic spirit of the Kaczynski brothers. What really annoys me are those stereotypes of the past which are used and revialized just for political calculation. Its effect are a disaster for German-Polish relationships. The number of Germans who are already reacting with a sense of outrage is increasing. With the wrecking of the present EU Poland will have committed suicide for fear of death. And I hate the idea how senseless this is given the alternatives.
Steinmann, Berlin, Germany
To Krzysztof Chmielewski,
there is a difference between east Gerany and Poland. It is right that West Germans like me have to pay alot for the east even today. But eastern Germans have the same voting rigths than west Germans. One citizen - one vote.
In the case of Poland and EU the Poles want extra rigths. 80 or 76 million people of Germany should get 8 votes in EU- parliament and 36 million Poles want 6 votes. This is not fair, isn´t it? Furthermore I cannot understand how a Polish goverment can be so hosile against their neighbour who did everything since 1945 to get friendly relatinship with Poland. We even dont´want our formal east-areas back. We do so because we want friendly relationships. But what does Poland? It takes our money, it acts agressive against Germany when ever it can and now it wants even privileges in EU elections. I gladly pay fpr east Germany because people there are not hostile, but paying money to the Poland of Mr Kaczynski is a farce.
Alexander, Frankfurt, Germany
To Stenmann. Your approach is strange to me. You say that Germany does not want to discriminate against this minority in the EU. You forgot to say that Germany is already discriminating against this minority in Germany. Non-citizens cannot elect a chancelor.
In Germany, this excluded minority comprises more than seven million - almost nine percent of the population. One quarter of these so-called 'foreigners' were born in Germany. Many of these people have the right to live in Germany indefinitely, but they do not have the right to vote.
So if they have no political rights, why they should be counted to the advantage of Germany.
By the way, I think that the EU should punish Germany for this discrimination of the minority in their own country. I have never heard about any other supposedly democratic country who would have second or third generation residents who could not become citizens and exercise their right to vote.
Frank, Adelaide, Australia
To Frank (Australia), the calculations are done on the basis of the total populations of the member states and not by calculating citizens only. But of course, as you suggested we could think about excluding the 7.2 million non-German citizens in Germany to accomodate for Polish extra rights. And of course Germany will be soon afterwards blamed for withholding democratic rights from its non-German inhabitants. I know you did not mean it that way. But this is how it can be understood. Why did you think Germany would have got extra rights in the calculation procedure ? You did not know, didn´t you ? But since it was Germany it was so easy to assume ....
Steinmann, Berlin, Germany
It wasn't anti-German sentiment but only an explanation of the historic problem. I consider politician shouldn't use historic cases in their policy. All they should do is to concentrate on presency and future. Unfortunately, Polish PM and his party do in a completely different way. Believe me, oppositely to the government - Polish people don't want to still think about past and don't want die for the square-root
Mateusz, Warszawa, Poland
I wonder what kind of credibiltiy one can attribute to those contributors here who back up Polish rights, claiming to follow democratíc principles, but do not hesitate to deprive Germany from the same rights. So why not giving up the pretext to look for a balancing compromise and better committing oneself publicly to ones anti-German apartheid ? If the only right of today´s Germany is considered to be paymaster and whipping boy. this might hint much more to the deplorable state of mind of its neigbours. Putting such anti-German sentiment into politics will not contribute to the stabilization of Europe and only shows that we have not learnt much from the last 100 years...
Paul Steinmann, Berlin, Germany
Mentioned area was not occupied by Poland - it was given by Atlee (British PM 1945-51), Truman and Stalin in 1945. An area of about 150,000 square km was grabbed away from Poland in 1945 with an agreement of mentioned politicians. Today Polish don't demad to have it back as well as Germans don't want their former eastern land to be present Germany. We have right to claim to this land because of bi- and multilateral treaties.
Mateusz, Warszawa, Poland
the polnish goverment has´nt understand the eu:
since they are in the eu, they blocked all eu- activities:
the reservation from poland against germany has an psychological problem, it called inferiority complex:
poland occupied 200000km2 of german motherland
with several german cities:breslau(wroclav), Stettin(szczecin),Danzig(gedansk),posen(posnan) a.s.o,
poland has no claim to this land and this cities:
morish, rom,
There's no question here of Poland becoming a 'second division' country - it already is. The Kaczynskis are an embarrassment to the European political scene and their constant demands for solidarity are ridiculous given their willingness at every turn to put posturing for internal consumption over the need for European compromise.
Niklas, Oxford,
Alexander,
in that case you should also stop eastern part of Germany to be part of your country. The government is still pumping giant funds to 'eastern Germany part' in order to level up both parts and form equally developed country. The Germans still have to pay special tax for this. Do the Germans from the east have less votes despite of earning less on average (thus paying less taxes to the country budget) than westerns ?
It seems like you don't understand the idea of EU. Its main task is to level up developement level of all their member countries as this ensures economical strenght for entire EU in the future. That's exactly what Germans do in their country to make it stronger and welthier in general. You understand that when it comes to Germany but you don't when it comes to Europe?
Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK
Hurray for Poland! Kaczynski twins do a good job!
Rep, SPb, Russia
The poor Poles have suffered throughout history by being caught between Germany and Russia. For once, let the bigger European countries take a second seat and assure that the smaller countries feel safe. In the U.S. during the writing of our Constitution, it was known as the Connecticut Compromise. If a bunch of agrarian colonies could do it, I would certainly think that Europe could!
Kevin, Columbus, Ohio, U.S.A.
One very important correction. Poland never demanded repariation for almost total destruction of Warsow after 1944 uprising. It was only prepared, but neber implemented, to counterattack possible financial demands of Germans "refugees" surrounded arround its president, Erica Steinbach. Those refugees frantically fled from occupied Poland before Red Army.
Steinbach for example was born in Polish house, confiscated from its Polish owner by her military father. Now, Steinbach claims that she is a war refugee.
Marek Kicinski, Mississauga, Canada
Way to go, Poland! You, unlike us, are showing some spine. On the other side of the door you refuse to go through is a noose.
Anthony Rose, Kingston, London, England
I am glad that President of my country stands for our, Poles, interests. I do not wish to die for any treaty, but Europe must understand, that Poland is in difficult geostrategical position and cannot agree to be a "second division" country. I am sure, that a compromise is at hand, and I mean compromise - situation in which none of the EU countries would be losers in coming events.
Piotr, Wroclaw, Poland
Is it so strange that a country defends itself from being marginalized? England would do the same as well as Germany not giving up any opportunities they have. There's a big ado about nothing. Nobody is likely to give up its power for nothing. Poland does not have to agree to 'double majority system' and has full right to defend its position using the present voting system approved by both sides, sealed by Nice Treaty and thought to be foundation of expanded EU. That includes veto.
Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK
Tadeusz,
In my opinion the victory of Kaczynski's party did not come as a surprise. It was the effect of people being tired of scandals of previous govenments (for ecample the famous media act scandal - the offer to sell the act for US$9m) as well as Polish foreign policy, which was based on accepting whatever foreign partners told us, sending our troops to Iraq and Afganistan and not requesting anything in return etc. People wanted somebody who will at last act as a 'saviour' of the national interest. I agree that this coalition is no good for this country but it is not worse then previous governments we had (you can say they created the current situation). You can write a book about political and economical scandals in Poland.
Anyway, I wrote it because I think British readers should have the opportunity to see the other side of the of the coin.
This government will not last forever, and if it manages to save our position in EU it may be used i the future by better governments.
Nicholas, Krakow, Poland
Well we know, nobody in Europe likes us. So for what do we need this Europe? We ´re paying more than others and we count less than others. I apologize I´m a German and I know that I only count half of a Polish while I have to pay double. Let´s stop Europe now. It does not make sence this way.
Alexander, Frankfurt, Germany
Apparently, the poles who have only enjoyed a small taste of freedom want more of it. On the other hand, the brits have gorwn fat and happy on freedom and have left the dinner table for a long nap.
Mark Rosales, Virgina, USA
It looks like Poland will be fighting in our corner - wish I could say the same about gormless brown whose closet approval with Blair will then give way to crocodile tears as
Blair steamrolls his way through the valley of broken pledges.
philip, Ipswich,
Dear K. from Cardiff, it's the Polish nationalistic and xenophobic government that has a problem with Europe, not us the people
Michal, Warsaw, PL,
Germany does not have a population of 81 or 82 million citizens. Only 75 million people in Germany have German citizenship and can enjoy political rights. So why Germany's voting power should be measured on the basis of those 82 million?
One can give all the power to big countries within the UE, but the question is whether such a union would survive. I think not. Small countries should also have a say.
Frank, Adelaide, Australia
The Kaczynski twins' regime in Poland is merely a headache for EU but a real threat to their country's future.They came to power supported by Homo-Sovieticus, disillusioned , uneducated part of the society, fuelled by the teachings of fundamentalist faction of the Catholic church.
As in 2005 60 % of citizens abstained from voting , the government was set up by a coalition of three nationalist, homophobic, populist parties. With the political demise of the post-communist government who joined EU in 2004, there is no substantial opposition in Poland. The only significant party purporting to be an opposition is nothing more than a carbon paper of the ruling coalition. Only their better manners and lack of outside world phobia make the difference.The Kaczynskis will not hesitate to wreck the summit. If it hadn't been for the money being pumped into the country, they' d also love to wreck Poland's membership ,viewing it as a hindrance to authoritarian power. Paranoia has no cure
Tadeusz S., Warszawa/Cavan, Poland /Ireland
Usually i feel a strong opponent of Kaczynski twins government, but I think that holding strong position in negotiations with EU members is the best they do. Moreover i believe, that this may bring profits to more smaller countries in EU.
KB, Lublin, Poland
Does anyone else find it interesting that Mr Blair chose to wait until this EU summit before stepping down? Gordon Brown resisted the Euro as it was not in Britain's best interests, while Mr Blair wanted to press ahead regardless. Maybe that is exactly why Mr Blair is not leaving this one to him.
C Rose, Kingston-upon-Thames, UK
Shame on you Mr Kaczynski (Mr Duck in English)hehe... I'm polish but this is not my president and prime minister.
Potato heads are going mad... They've got ''power complex''...and it's not gonna help Poland and polish people...
Przemyslaw Nieuzyla, London,
You hear it all over that Poland is going to wreck the EU summit in Berlin. The victim is already chosen. But I admire Poland, in-spite of all the odds against them, they are going to fight for their rights and position within the EU.
PS.The Polish parliament has just expressed its support for the Polish government.
The war has just begun
RM, Leuven, Belgium
Those idiots who ramrodded Eastern European accession into EU BEFORE the existing EU15 could put its house in order have only themselves to blame.
Michael, Dubai,
Thanks, Mr Astin, I thought maybe that was a British term or something.
sas, Cincinnati, USA
a referendum should be held before any "treaty" is implemented.national interests should take precedence over all other.
a.glen, gosport, united kingdom
Good fot the Poles! You are right. I keep fingers crossed for your success.
K, Cardiff,
no vote on "treaty"without a complete and free referendum
a.glen, gosport, united kingdom
I would have thougfht that even a political correspondent would know how to spell "square root".
John Astin, Canterbury, UK
Good for the Poles! At least someone has the sense to scupper this deal. Blair/Brown would sign anything.
MB, Nottingham, UK
The Times made a good point by noting the anti-german feelings visible in the politics of the current Polish government. It should also be noted, like the Austrian chancellor said, that Poland has the most pro-EU population and one of the most euro-sceptic governments. Poles have more trust towards Bruxelles than to their own government. Also the Polish public is not as sceptic about Germany than their current government, which is even unable to accept a free press.
The polish twins should not mistake Bruxelles for Moscow and todays Germany for the Third Reich or the Soviet Union. Polands chances for good development are better today than at any point in the past, its a member of NATO and the EU. But if Polands blocks the EU it should not be surprised when it comes to an EU of two speeds, where the core of Germany, France and the Benelux states go ahead with institutional mergers.
Bernd, Berlin, Germany
History, correctness and fairness demand that Germany acknowledge the rights of Poland!
Mike, San Francisco, USA
It must be so nice to have a strong decisive leader that wil not put his countrys interest first-
It seems obvious that President Kaczynski is someone who is prepared to pay for his own holidays...............
mike, oxford, england
Are there circumstances when the EU can suspend the membership of a member country - or even expel it ?
Patrick Hogan, Fareham, UK
Come on Poland, Nas drawie - at least one leader isn't isn't looking forward to lining his nest with the jobs, power and prestige they all see in top European parliament jobs after their electorate tire of them.
This ever furthering federalism isn't what we signed up for - we wanted a free market within Europe, nothing more.
Andy Iddon, London, UK
funny how they want to protect their own country but look at the state of UK? they dont really think about the state of this country do they!
KT, London,
At last, a national leader who will not mealy-mouth his way into a stitch-up by the federalists and then, later, try to spin the surrender into a famous victory.
Quite unlike our own Mr.Tony, then...
Oby tak dalej!
steve jones, diss,
I cant believe I'm relying on Poland to protect the independance of the UK.
But apparently I am.
Dominic, Manchester, UK
Square 'root,' it's spelt square root. I even spelled 'spelled' spelt.
gaahl, Eremitu, Romania
Solidarity with the Poles!!
Eric, Plymouth, Massachusetts, USA
The Poles are proposing a square root voting system, not a "square route" one.
John, High Peak, England
"one of his controversial acts as Mayor of Warsaw was to demand reparations from the Germans for the destruction of the Polish capital"
it's not true. be more precise, journalists. you can always call and ask your Polish colleagues, if you're not sure of sth. what he did indeed was estimation of Warsaw loss in WW2. it was a signal before an aswer-to-be in the face of german financial claims towards Poland. the germans even win in courts somtimes and take homes and lands from Poles only because they had lived there before they started WW2
Slawek, Torun, Poland
Sure. This makes since. Why doesn't Austria and Germany open their borders. What do you expect from Poland when the constitution favors ramrodding and controlling Poland.
Stalowny, Sunnyville,
Poland is parasiting Europe. We in Russia tell this to everybody who can listen. That Mariobros-like Kaczynskys are big problem for EU. It is shame - to let one little poor client-country (a sponsored one) to make troubles to other countres which are more big, politically advanced, and got strong economics. I guess they should kick Poland out EU. Just like they say about kicking Russia out G8, I guess)).
Alexander , Ekatherineburg, Russian Evil Empire