we ALL lost people in WW2
But Poland demands what ??
They got a big part of former germany-country and still
moaning?

Michael, Waldshut, Germany

What are the Poles on about. There arithmetic is totally skewed. Yes Poland in 1945 had 11 million less citizen.
6 million where in the area annexed by USSR and 3 million were Jews and given the rampant antisemitism of the Poles they played a significant part in eradicating as did many other Slavic nations (eg the croats). For example a lot of killing was done by , Russian Ukrainian and Lithuanian "Einsatzgruppen" or even regular troops like the Dirlewanger brigade (mostly russians and ukrainian SS) who were instrumental in putting down the Warsaw rising.
And I wonder if the missing millions contain some of the two million or so german civillian killed by allied troops (russian, polish, czech, yugolsav etc) between the end of 1944 and 1946 a lot of whom were killed in what is todays Poland.

Dennis Keane, London,

I find it hard to believe we are all still discussing this. Out there are a couple of nations like China and India overly eager to become industrial behemoths - dwarfing "bad bad" Germany by zilions of times - and many people still think that we want to take over world power.

Wake up guys, Germany is by far too small to be anything but a medium player in the future. Our only chance here in Europe is to get our act together TOGETHER! (no pun intended.)

Michael, Düsseldorf, Germany

In Brazil I don´t think we have destroyed our history books yet!

João Alcides Olenski, Curitiba, Brazil/Paraná

Here's an idea. Have one house of parliament based on population and another of equal power consisting of two Senators from each country. Each piece of legislation would have to pass both houses.

M Wagner, Utah, USA

Alessandro how much tax did you pay last year? Have you paid more than your neighbour?
If yes, tell me if you have more votes in municipal election or national than he has?
If not, tell me if your neighbour has more votes in municipal election or national than you have?

Think again what you have just written here.

Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK

To John from London.

Actually, the French voted against a European Superstate, that's why we never got the chance to have a referendum, because the Constitution was thrown out before we voted against it!

We never had to say no, the French and the Dutch (and Swede's if they'd had the chance) were also against it.

It was clear a new strategy was needed if the political masters were to get there way (which they will). So now the papers are reporting all the little rows that are going on between Poles and Germans whilst Rome burns (excuse the pun) and a new treaty is born, a Constitution for a Superstate, but with a different name, so that we don't need to be consulted or vote on it.

You can railroad democratic countries into something the people don't want but one day, sooner or later, there will be a revolution. European history surely teaches us that much!?

Mark, Birmingham, UK

I hope God keeps blessing all the Slavs! The Slavs should always be united! The same apllies for us here in Latin America! Now the West wants to take away the Serbian province of Kosovo from the Serbians! Next will be what? Take away the whole of the Amazon from Brazil? Will you also entice the local Indians to rebell and then bomb the Brazilians in case they decide to protect their territory? Is just 60 years enough to forget the tragedies of wwII?

João Alcides Olenski, Curitiba, Brazil/Paraná

Having double-checked the facts with my Polish girlfriend in Poznan, Poland, I have to agree with Luke from Lublin.

The comment about the WWII victims is NOT an official standpoint, it was just a very careless aside.

E Cassin, Cheltenham,

First, the square root system of counting votes proposed by Poland is half-way between what we had under the Nice treaty and what is being proposed now. If a proposal challenging the EU voting formula based on population incites so much anger, who the hell invented the previous system which was so disproportionate as to give Poland 27 votes versus 29 enjoyed by Germany, Britain, France and Italy each? The 6 versus 9 would look much fairer now, it seems.

It is good to read a UK citizen's opinion that Poland should become the 51st state of the US as it so fiercely backed the US on Iraq. As far as I know the UK was against the intervention from the very beginning and - thanks to the determination of British Prime Minister Tony Blair - no British soldiers have been sent there to help the Americans.

Krzysztof Pacholik, Warsaw (still outside the USA), Poland

The Poles have a point, but they should remember that if it wasn't for the Brits & the Yanks there wouldn't be a Poland to be in the EU. It's time that other EU states showed some sort of loyalty & gratitude to Britain & supported us in our stand against the 4th Reich & their French, Spanish & Austrian collaborators. The two world wars should be remembered & people should be able to talk freely about them. Every one should remember the Germans aspiration to rule Europe. They failed twice before, but they still persist, although by a different method. What shouldn't be talked about is the disintegration of sovereign states & the creation of a united states of Europe. No-one in Britain has voted agreeing to this, the only thing that was voted on was a common market. It's time politicians did what their electorate wanted them to do. Britain wants te remain in charge of its own destiny & keep ruling itself. However, I still wouldn't be surprised if Blair sells us down the river

Lynda Plum, London, england

Tch, tch my European friends. Next time around make love, not war. As Jesus said, the meek shall inherit the Earth..

Kara Swart, London,

and while we are still at this, well, why not go on and have a field day? Americans (and dare I add the Russians) also ought to have a say for liberating Europe; and the Latin Americans and Africans ought to have a strong say for their economic rape through colonialism that contributed to Europe's economic power. Oh, lets not stop at that, Britain could give dual citizenship to every anglo-saxon person in the world -US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, SOuth Africa, Kenya, Zimbabwe, to swell up their numbers to increase their voting majority! Amazing how idiots can have lesser things to talk about when they get in positions of leadership that can be used for greater change! No wonder Poland supported the ridiculous Iraq war!

pete, Brisbane, Australia

It is your government who let the immigrants in. Another issue is that the number of immigrant is far beyond your government expectation. It is not the Poles fault that you were unable to predict the level of influx, is it?

Check your govermental data. It clearly states that these immigrants are contributing more to the UK treasury than they are taking from it. Yet again it is not the Poles fault that you are unable to provide social services to the people who pay taxes, is it?

Sorry mate, try your luck in the next elections.

Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK

We should separate two things: political interests and an ideology.
There's nothing wrong in enforcing by Polish politicians system favourable for Poland. But politics is a game not a war. From that point, style of diplomacy of Kaczyńscy brothers is unreasonable. Never more, if we realize that they regard every quid pro quo as a betrayal of ideals. They don't accept compromises. It shouldn't be a surprise for Europe because they are the leaders of a party which was against joining Poland EU. It is also a party which continually lies that in elections in 2005 'great majority of Poles voted for PiS (Law and Justice)'.
In fact, it was only 33,7% of voters. Actually support for PiS and the government is constantly decreasing. They don't represent Polish view of Europe but the view of an extremely rightist group.
So I think that the title of this article is little unfair.

Emilia, Warsaw,

Two questions for the UK hypocrites:

1. Why does the UK have any say in EU affairs if it has not committed itself to converting to the Euro as others have?

2. Why should the UK benefit from EU membership while demanding concessions and exemptions?

Emlyn, Providence, RI, USA

1. The UK is a net contributor - we put in more than we take out

2. We don't benefit. It costs us money that could be better spent at home rather than subsidising Polish Turnip Farmers and the like.

Why does an American feel the need to stick their nose into European matters? Haven't you made enough of a mess elsewhere in the globe? Why don't you have Poland in NAFTA? Er...though not!

Rod Polisher, Scunthorpe, UK

I think the EU should split into two groups. 1) A trading area where we pool people, companies and the like only. 2) A second group that wants to harmonise laws and move towards a more federal structure.

At the moment we are going to have a fight as these two groups exist and there different directions will end up pulling the EU apart unless something is done about it.

Gareth Webber, Swanley, Kent, UK

Roland
Russia would never be in EU just because we here couldn't care less about it. And frankly I have so much fun watching your constang arguing in the EU. Thank goodness it has nothing to do with old mother Russia!

Roman, Moscow,

Wow! I am empressed by what a difficult project the EU is. Old enemies with old fears and prejudices trying to find the courage to give up a degree of autonomy to enter into a new relationship. You are to be admired for the effort, no matter how it turns out.

Michael, Hanford, CA

Before you have your say please aknowledge the fact that from last few years in Germany there are louder voices coming from organizations demanding recompensations from Poland for the Germans who lost their properties being moved out of Poland as a result of lost war.

Moreover, the war started by the Germans ended up with dividing Europe with Iron Curtain. Before WW2 Poland was a country more developed than Spain and would have it's position now. The war pushed Poland into communist block and many people still remember who started it.

Last, please remember that one day (sooner rather than later, please see the recent economic statistics) the Poles will go back to their own country, when it will be so easy to earn so much for doing so little like in the U.K. And then, you will be looking again for those who can work so hard for peanuts.

Robert from Poland, xxx,

The problem with EU is that is is far too shy, and always scared of upsetting this or that country (or worse still, ''leaders'').

I think we should:
1- Stop any further expansion until we get sorted out internally (and possibly reverse some of the latest entries, which seem good only for flag-waving back at home)

2-Slap import duties on the smart ones like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland which are clearly having the cake and eating it at the same time.

3- Agree on a minimum set of rules (possibly including the Euro, better coordination of tax systems etc) and then present the countries with a clear choice: either in or out, but not the current mess.

And then we'll see what happens with other flag-waving fans... like the UK, when they have to decide between their pound (which btw any economist will single out as a bad example of monetary police, last 10 years excepted) or the City, the US and Japanese investment etc.

Interesting times ahead!

jorge, zaragoza, spain

I cant believe Poland actually said this. It would be interesting to see how many people Germany lost during WW2. And yes Im sure there was millions of innocent civilians killed by allied bombing and the barbarous Russians. I think the Polish people need to realise they are looking very backward and narrow minded by the behaviour of their governmant. In fact Poland has a very young and educated population. I just hope they have enough sense to vote these dinosaurs out come nect election.

Adrian, Dublin,

Young Poles respect national sovereignty, but loves Europe, respect tradition, but loves freedom and respect history, but loves the future. No parochial and hostile
goverment will be elected ever again, we promise. We need EU and EU needs us.

youth, x, Poland

Jesus, is that the europe you want, hate, revenge, bashing on the old enemies - Europe was made to overcome wwII, to overcome all this nationalism you can read here. Politicans, who use history always abuse history. Is that the right way, how we deal with the heritage of milions of death? Is that the way we deal with friends? Last summer I was at the fields of verdun and if you visit that place or the killing fields in belgium than you feel the duty, the duty to work for a vision - and I´m sorry about the twins, who have learned nothing, cause history is for learning not for making policy. sorry my poor english - mark

mark, frankfurt, germany

On this logic Germany should get the most EU votes because Germany suffered the most WWII casualties of all EU countries.

But then of course we have to factor any restraint on Polish population growth, if any, caused as a result of year if communist misrule (and give similar credit to other former eastern bloc nations).

In addition we must consider that all predominantly catholic nations in the EU, such as Poland, have disproportionately large populations because of catholic teachings against birth control. That needs to be factored in too. There's no reasons why Anglicans, Lutherans and other Protestants who have tended towards more moderate family sizes should be penalised for their caution.

Can anyone else think of any other population balancing factors that need to be considered? Surely there must be a case for a whole new EU commissioner just to deal with this issue?

Iain Thorpe, Wellington, New Zealand

The EU should learn a little from the US. We've had a union for hundreds of years now with not too many problems. What we've set up is a Federal system for larger issues such as defense, and leave the smaller issues, such as laws, to the states. That way they stay out of our business and we stay out of theirs. We also have the Senate, where all states have equal voting rights. It does seem from afar to me that France and Germany are trying to meddle too much in the details, instead of just sticking to the larger framework.

And treating Poland to less votes is like a rich man marrying a poor women, and then him always telling her what to do because he says he makes all the money. Such an attitude often leads to divorce.

Claudia , Atlanta, USA

With regard to Poles working in Northern Ireland. The reality my company finds is that there are insufficient numbers of people with the required skills in the local population. It is only by recruiting them we can expand so in that sense they are welcome

Geoff, Belfast,

Keith the next step is to deny the fact of WW II itself?

Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK

Wasn't the point of the EU to UNITE these European countries for the BENEFIT of its peoples? Why, then, is the UK not "playing ball"? If they wish to benefit from membership with the EU then no concessions and/or exemptions should be allowed. Consider: Would these be given to, say, Portugal or Austria? The UK can't have its cake and eat it too. For a start it could at least pretend to play fair by switching to the Euro like all of the other bona fida members. In my view the UK is wholly undeserving of special treatment until such time that it begins to act like one of the team.

Emlyn, Providence, RI, USA

Frankly speaking, the Kaczynski twins should be appreciated for not looking further back into history. In the mid 16th Century, during the so called Swedish Deluge, Poland's population had been halved. Millions were either killed at the hands of Swedish army or decimated by famine and diseases caused by the war.
We could have been a nation of 300 million by now, eqaul in terms of population to the USA.

Tadeusz S., Warszawa/Cavan, Poland /Ireland

Polish proposal would be one of many resolutions if Polish politicians didn't treated summit in Brussels as a battlefield. Such attitude can only deepen wrongful stereotypes about Poles.

Anna, Warsaw, Poland

It would be easier to drain the funds away with German proposals, wouldn't it? But it's too hard to do that with the present voting system. Spain got it, why shouldn't we have it?
Why the Poles are stubborn but not the Germans trying to impose there point of viem on Poland?

What happens usually does not have to be good, does it?

The idea of funds is to level up developement of all EU members. This is not a robbery, but in mater of fact, an example of good thinking. Why? The answer is simple. Common wealth of EU depends on that. Averaging the developement of all member states proves to be the fastest way of developing entire EU. Thus EU is investing in its own future enhacing the developement level of the weakest members. The chain is as strong as the weakest link is.

Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK

WW2 damaged ALL our population numbers, who started it makes no difference a death is a death,
So why stop at WW 2? If World War 1 had never happened then neither would have WW2
So where do we start counting our lost population from?

If you don’t like the rules of the EU then get out.
That goes for the UK as well.

David, Peterborough, UK

@jaroslaw

I frankly don't think that anyone in Germany tries to "twist" the history of the third reich. But I think the general feeling among my generation is that we fared rather well with the integration into the West over the last 50 years and that there must somehow be an end to this ever-lasting opera of self-flagelation - without forgetting what happened. Every nation deserves respect and the ability to somehow look at its past, so my take is that as a "nation" we still have a long way to travel before we can really say that we are at peace with the world - and especially withourselves.

I would only like to remind you of the Holocaust memorial next to the parliament in Berlin. The German central committee of Jews never said they wanted it. It was actually the government that insisted on building it. Have you had a closer look at Japan and their dealing with WWII? Compared to that I think we did rather well. Why not acknowledge?

Michael, Düsseldorf, Germany

Hey Rick, London, UK. Poland did NOT join because it was going to have 27 votes. It joined because [presumably] it wanted to be part of the EU and what it stood for.
However, why stop at WW2? Why not go further back, to WW1, or maybe the Middle Ages. Oh what the heck - lets go back to Ancient Roman or Greek times!!
Thats the problem with too many people - living in the past!

james, adelaide, australia

I'm Polish and I'm really sorry for what our government does. Despite I agree, that since we should all become one European community the voting should be proportional to population, I cannot stand the way Polish government tries to force others to this system, without any debate, without friendly talk about it.
All I can say is that I'm sorry for how it looks like. I hope that people in other countries understand, that most of people here in Poland don't think that way.

Not many may know that, but after the war, our bishops wrote a letter to German bishops, which contained very important words "we forgive and ask for forgiveness". I cannot agree more. We should all finally forget about the past and start to look into our future.

Max, Katowice, Poland

I understand the Poles. Remember they had 5,7million of deads in WW2. Living between Germany and Russia meant always invasions and occupations for them. Remember that the father of the two Polish twins dead defending Warsaw from the German army while the Red Army was only waiting to occupy the part of Poland that Moltov-Ribbentrop tract gave to the Russians. Nobody forgets nothing.

Andrea, Rome, Italy

I do not agree with Kaczynski's statement. Nonetheless it is funny when guy from Israel accuse Poland of using history in making policy. It is your nation rather than mine that still reminds the world how poor it was during the II World War. And I even understand your attitude but you should understand ours.

You, The British, act in the same way. Of course, you can say that we block the UE integration. It is easy for you because all your demands are respected, even if they are far more destructive for integration. I do not blame you because i still believe in UE that is based on the needs of all members and respect them equally.

MK, Poland,

I suggest a slight amendment to that proposed by our Polish friends.

Instead of:
Votes = square root of population

We would have:
Votes = Min (0, Square root of population + nett budget contribution)

In other words, nett beneficiaries should shut up and be grateful we're giving them €millions in direct subsidies and transferred jobs whilst getting nothing but grief in return.

The British have an appropriate idiom, "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Ad, Hamburg, Germany

I've read majority of these comments with disgust. One has to have basic knowledge of history, economy and politics before making comments. I wonder, what some of the commentators from this page would say, if their countries would lose ca 18% of their population, and after that manslaugther be faced with financial claims from their aggressors: Poles suffered thanks to the German - Soviet aggresion - not hypotetical "nazis" from Mars - and right now German so called " expelled" have to courage to say the Poland owe something to them!
Secondly, EU faces the increase of GNP after enlargment, in which Poland has a particular position thanks to her potential - the say that Poland only takes is simply untrue.
I also wonder, what we will hear of the voting system, when Turkey with her demographic potential will come into play .

karol fabiańczyk, Szczecin, Poland

Of course Poland has it right. Germany has learned that it cannot control Europe through direct agression, so it is now seeking to do so through alternative means. It's ludicrous to argue that the country that initiated two world wars is in some way different today: the culture remains the same, we see the same old arrogance and the same old bigotry. We also see the same old tactics - jackbooted policies imposed through an economic panzer force rather than actual tanks. Nevertheless, anybody who has seen German industry in action knows that it is closely linked to nationalist ideals. The EU is often touts itself as having prevented a repeat of war, but it has only done so through appeasement of German encroachment. If we don't want to become vassal states of the Fourth Reich, we'll have to fight these animals once again: maybe next time we can take a leaf out of there book about how to treat your enemies.

Mike, London,

Why is the worth of my vote not as equal as any other vote from any other eu country citizien?
Maybe there is a inversely proportional relation between paying and vote weight.

MeMyselfAndI, Berlin, Germany

"Hans-Gert Pöttering...President of the European Parliament, said that such comments 'should no longer be made in the 21st century'."

Does this mean the E.U. will stop raising the spectre of WWII to "justify" its existence in a "Do you want Jones back" manner? Will the peoples of Europe be free to rationally deliberate on their respective futures without this traditional E.U. argumentum ad terrorem? If not, then Poland has every right to call the E.U.'s bluff by asking it to adopt a sincere approach to addressing the consequences of the War, including eliminating the temptation from nations' minds that military aggression will ever be rewarded.

Kevin, London,

The Poles are right: No other innocent European country has suffered so badly during the Second World War. It is only fair to take this in consideration when one regards current politics.

And as for German politicians saying that there is no room for this kind of considerations in the 21st century: It has not occured in many thousands of years that the people of one nation killed millions of innocent individuals. Why are we to forget this within a century?

M.J.A. Michiels, Sittard, the Netherlands

The Kaczynski's remark was neither ellegant, neither diplomatic nor apropriate, but newertheless it is true! Sorry, but Germans really killed six millions Poles during the war, though Polish president should not make the history lecture during the UE Summit. Another fact is that in Germany in recent years 'twisted' historic relatvism blossom and Germans try shamelessly to present themselves as the victims of the war, which first they have hapilly started, following Hitler by millions! As a Pole I am deeply embarassed by Kaczynski's pity show in Brussels. Sure, Poles still feel unsecure between Germany and Russia and maybe still we need therapy. But whatever Kaczynski says during the summit and else our young generation look forward, not behind!

Jaroslaw Fiutowski, New York, USA

Guys, let's try to figure things out calmly. So:
- Poland joined the EU on the rules established in NIce, so favourable because of Spain's uncompromising position - would you resign so easily from sth that is ok for you?
- There are basically two alternatives: German-French propostion (in short: we want to dominate the EU and whoever opposes does not know what solidarity is and is stupid) and square root which make sides meet midway
- The summit must be success - everyone needs them esp. in politics; just in case we need a scapegoat, UK is too big (besides let's accept numerous ammendments it wants, whatever); why is Polnad's stance treated by the press as inferior?solidarity does not apply any more?
- personally I wouldn't mess war topics into this discussion, but consider these remarks as a result of pressure; it must be mentioned however that Poland suffered from the war enormously, being one of the few occupied countries that did not cooperate with Germany (and it stayed;)

Chris, Mielec, Poland

"Oh by the way when does the united states get the offset
on past balances on war debt support!" Perhaps I misunderstood. If you look real closely the United States is not part of Europe. We could argue about past political imbalances in Tonga and remote parts of the Punjab if we want, but it sure seems completely unrelated to me.

Jefferson Marion, Sarasota, Florida

Come on guys...i'm no Historian but the Poles have had a pretty tough time of it... and not just during the war but ever since. It's hard to establish sound economic prosperity and join the EU when you're behind the iron curtain...
The only issue I have with the stance of the Polish government is that they seemingly lay all blame on Germany - obviously they have a huge grievance there, and rightfully so, but the Russians have done at least as much to temper and brutalise the population, both during Stalin's 'liberation' and in the communist years since.
I absolutely don't blame them for digging their heels in - when the existing members voted to include Poland, Czech, Hungary et al they gave them exactly this right... can't blame them for using it.

Richard Mee, Cambridge, UK

I can understand Polands mistrust toward the Germans as well as the Russians. However, thank God, Europeans after 1945 finally realized that the future is more important than the past. There where crimes committed by Germans and also Poles during and after WWII that need to be publically debated and added to our countries historical concience. This process is far from complete.
But to hijak this debate to achieve momentary political goals is certainly not helping it. There are good and valid reasons why poland might be unsatisfied with the double majority rule. WWII is not one of them.

@Rod: Not being in the EU would not spare brittain from having to implement its regulations. Look at Norway and Swizerland. They adapt to EU law as well to keep their trade with the EU. They just can't shape it.

Andreas, Wuerzburg, Germany

'unregulated expansion' says john from greece, i don't think so - it took over ten years of votes and negotiation for Poland to join the EU, bet you'll be even more worried when Turkey joins, eh pal ?

jan , warsaw, poland

Lets recall Stalin moved Russia's border with Poland by 100 miles after the war and Stalin suggested Poland move its border with Germany by 100 miles, as compensation.

Richard Rankin, Falls Church , Virginia, USA

Sir,

In my view, for Britain and Poland there is only one road to go down. Bail out, hit the trail. I've got a bellyful of your opting out. Beat it!

Dr. Gernot Peter, Vilshofen, Allemagne

A two-tier Europe is needed today. If Poland, the UK, the Czech Republic and the Netherlands want to remain in the EU so much they can go ahead and call themselves associate memebers of the EU, but they should not be allowed to block the proper functioning of the institution for the rest of us.

Michael, Athens, GREECE

Wathever the weather
we must move
TOGETHER

Time has shown throwing past sins @ each other is very stupid.
Hitler started war because he thought germany got a raw deal.
Noboy alive is without debt!
If we do not stop this, we will lose.
Let bygones be bygones and move on, or we will drown today.

egal, Cologne, Ger

Lorenz
It is funny, indeed. The Poles perceive german press the same as you perceive polish press...

Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK

I am really shocked by the way the German and the Polish media have been treating this issue in the last couple of weeks. Is this really our generation can come up with?

Being born in 1965 I find the ever-prevalent Nazi jokes about my nation utterly boring. None of the people in power in Germany had anything to do with the 3rd Reich - so wouldn't it be time to take a new look at us? Also: No one over here - except some crazed grannies from refugee organisations - want the East back. Also, on the long run having lost the East in WWII was probably the best thing that could happen to us, since it really allowed our integration into the West.

As to Poland: I really don't think the Kaczynskis really represent the opinion of most Poles. And I frankly believe that most people over there are more worried about getting on with life than constantly thinking about the past.

So how long is this WWII responsibility supposed to last? And frankly: taking over the world is not on our agenda.

Michael, Düsseldorf, Germany

I don't agree with Polands position although I feel for the emotional trauma they obviously still by which they are still palgued. I also don't like the political concept of the EU either. But a previous post by John MacKinnon tries to claim that WWII also cost Germans lives fails because they caused the war while Poland was a victim of it. However, if Poland's argument was to stand, all the countries engaged in the war (minus Germany and Italy) would need to determine todays possible populations based upon the same argument. This is ridiculous.
Lorenz (from Germany) mentions how the Polish don't like the Germans, but Germany has no porblem with them. Hmmm, I think you need to read your own history. I can't imagine why that would be. He then goes on to bash their system of government and schools which has nothing to do with the argument of whether they deserve more representation based upon possible population if not for the Germans invasion of 1939 and the horror that followed

Chris, Houston, TEXAS

I am shocked by the stubbornness of whoever represents Poland. The European Union members were more than generous in accepting Poland within their club, Germany included, especially considering their unemployment levels. They have successfully exported part of their unemployment in the last two years and they are currently benefiting from unprecedented GDP growth. There are in the UK now places like Slough where public services are currently struggling due to the huge influx of immigrants from Poland. Schools are struggling with the high number of non speaking children, hospitals need personnel that speak the language and so on.. Shall we look back in history and ask to the Polish government for compensation?

vittorio, london, uk

This is truly sad... may I say, as far as I know, there is NO anti-Polish thinking in Germany. But Polish newspapers are dripping with anti-German hate.
I really feel for the Polish people, they deserve a better government. The Kaczynskis try to lead their country back into the past. They ban world literature from their schools, replacing it with nationalistic books glorifying the Polish past; they try to restore capital punishment; they have their police trounce gay people; ...

Lorenz, Cologne, Germany

I am with Rod Polisher's post, lets get out of the EU. Isn't Poland on thin ice regarding population loss from the war? Surely lots of other EU countries, including Germany, can complain of that.

John MacKinnon, Lincoln, England

In actual fact Kaczynski introduce too much morality to the sphere of politics (utility).I do not believe it is the best way to convince all others that the square root proposal can help Europe to reach the needed equilibrium. It certainly will -let me quote some numbers: D-9; GB, F, I -8, E, PL, NL - 6, CZ, SL - 3. Today numbers are 29 for D, GB, F, and I and 27 for PL and E. The last German proposal is riduculous (why e.g. should they have 140% of British vote's). Actually, what the Kaczynskis suggest is the only successful federalist principle known since the Greek federal states flourished. The Lycian Confederacy and councils of the Achaean or Aetolian League worked in this way (the "amphictyony-like representation")

Jacek, Warsaw, Poland

It is a matter of fact that usually , in every contest, the bigger spender have the louder voice.

Why it should be different in the EU one? if the polish are so stubborn , drain away the EU funds and the next time they will be a lot more soft

Alessandro , BATH, UK

To Mr Keith Murray, and others. POLAND in 1939 had 35,5 millions inhabitants. It started in 1945 with 22,9 millions. About 2,5 millions were the Ukrainians, Belarussians or Lithuanians who stayed in the Soviet Union, and there was a Polish minority in the Dritte Reich (about 1,5 million). Roughly, the losses are 10 millions from both invaders. Just learn history...

Jacek, Warsaw, Poland

Thought I'm a Pole, I believe Kaczynski's proposal of compensating loss in people during the WW II is nothing short but absurd. That's a shame for Poland's international affairs. They are simply aut off their trolley rising it as point in negotiations. That will probably cause lose of credibility on international arena. Shame, shame, shame...

But ridiculous point does not make polish demands of recognition their voting power given by Nicee Treaty ridiculous itself. Now, the Poles are being forced to give up real power for promises, probably (as the history proves) never to be kept up.

Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK

Two questions for the UK hypocrites:

1. Why does the UK have any say in EU affairs if it has not committed itself to converting to the Euro as others have?

2. Why should the UK benefit from EU membership while demanding concessions and exemptions? (Would this privilege be afforded to Portugal or Ireland?)

Poland may have an axe to grind, but the UK should keeps it's nose out of EU affairs until it such time that it joins on even and fair terms.

Emlyn, Providence, RI, USA

Good Idea!
I think germany should compensate this by sending us about 28 million of their own citizens (the richests ones)! and we will be friends

Mark Dollar, Warsaw, poland

Well if the Poles want to take the WW2 path, maybe they should calculate the German losses of the war as well into their voting scheme. And the parts of eastern Germany that were annexed by them would be significant assets to Germany today.

Ridiculous...we fund them through subsidies and they do nothing but complain.

Lars, Aachen, Germany

I was shocked and feel deeply embarassed by Mr Kaczynski's comments. Maybe the new voting system is not ideal but resorting to this kind of rhetoric is downright cynical and dishonest.
Now I can only count the days until the next general election.
Just don't get away with the idea that all Poles think that way!!!

Stanislaw , Flagstaff, Arizona

Paddy, Warsaw was almost completely razed. We wouldn't have coped had London been levelled. The UK and France(in 1939) and Soviets looked on. Then there was the Red Army occupation, the loss of industry, the shifting of pre-war borders to the West. The Cold War government was a puppet of the USSR for over 50 years. So they understandably aren't happy with how Europe has treated it.

Ben, York,

I am irritated by the cliché "Germany wants to take over Europe" rants showing here. Exhale, we have "taken" East Germany which was/is still extremely expensive. Taking over Rumania, Poland, The Baltic states... no thanks. To be more serious: none of the voting systems do it for me. They should take a break and work out something different. Obviously the "Germany counting" doesn´t work for Europe. Two states that is.

Niko2, Wiesbaden, Germany

I don't believe Poland lost 6 million civilians. First, many of you would have joined the German Army. And the French, and whoever. And if you didn't, there would have had to have been a pretty lucrative deal in it all.

So come on, are you going to reveal a few things, or do you want to wait for me to tip your pawns and bishops out of the box?

Keith Murray, Brighton, Great Britain

Why don't you publish my comment? Is it too blunt and straightforward? But it reflects the view of a lot of Europeans who are really fed up with the bickering of the English and the Polish politicians à la Thatcher, completely unexperiences in the art of European governance.

Dr. Gernot Peter, Vilshofen, Allemagne

Folks
Poland is known as the ugly duckling of Europe! there big, there is plenty of them to go round but no one really wants them. Why dont they collectively stand firm and fertilize there own country after all the previous generations defeated communism only to see this generation flock off.

Prykee, London, UK

Would the hypothetical population figure not be reduced, firstly by the actions of the Russians, during and after WW2, then by the contraceptive effect of forty-five years of communism?

E J Murray, Kerry, Ireland

I should not be astonished to find so many backward oriented opinions, even in the respectable Times. Watching the British media with great interest I can only agree with John Kingsbury who consideres Britain mentally trapped in the past. And now Poland has joined the club. Looking at the huge challenges we are facing in Europe and the world it is time that all wake up to the presence and look forward.
The remarks of the Kaczynski Twins deserve no further comments and the vast majority of my numerous Polish colleagues and friends who live in Germany agree.

Guenter, Steinfurt, Germany

Stuart from Sheffield,

are you interested in a top position in the Polish government? You display just the knowledge of post-war history as those in charge there.
Other countries were left in rubbles and have managed to recover. The problem for Poland was not the loss of their people but the disastrous policy during the cold war. Now other countries like the Czech Republic or Slowenia are catching up and Poland simply proves to be one of the countries who always see the mistakes in others but themselves.
Besides, on the big agenda of the crazy twins seems to be an estrangement between the Polish and German people. Yet, what they don't see (nor like) are the strong ties that have developed between the people that will easily help to unmask their pathetic intentions.

Paddy, London,

Why don't the Poles are required to pay for what they took from Checoslovaquia when the Germans invaded it, in 1938? The Poles have always been a main cause of trouble in Europe throughout their history. They are not as innocent as they seem!

Alejandro Tomasini , Mexico City, Mexico

We should separate two things: political interests and an ideology.
There's nothing wrong in enforcing by Polish politicians system favourable for Poland. But politics is a game not a war. From that point, style of diplomacy of Kaczyńscy brothers is unreasonable. Never more, if we realize that they regard every quid pro quo as a betrayal of ideals. They don't accept compromises. It shouldn't be a surprise for Europe because they are the leaders of a party which was against joining Poland EU. It is also a party which continually lies that in elections in 2005 'great majority of Poles voted for PiS (Law and Justice)'.
In fact, it was only 33,7% of voters. Actually support for PiS and the government is constantly decreasing. They don't represent Polish view of Europe but the view of an extremely rightist group.
So I think that the title of this article is little unfair.

Emilia, Warsaw, Poland

Mark, the English ex-pat living in Warsaw got it right. The Twins are very limited in their horizon, and a big number of Poles here are embarrased by their current remarks against Germany.
But the pressure from the Germans and from the German press is very unpleasant as well.
The problem is that the summit will hopefully reach a compromise, but the hangover will remain. And we will have to pay for this, I am very much afraid.

Krzysztof, Warsaw, Poland

Stuart, perhaps you should ask your Cork grandparents if they consider the Irish Great Famine to have been a "natural disaster". The Famine was caused in the main by undemocratic colonial rule from London at a time when the British Empire was at it's richest. While the potato crop failed millions of tonnes of corn left Ireland's shores to "feed" its colonial masters' pockets. Prime Minster Blair's apology to the Irish President and people for Britain's role in the Famine refers. Ireland, like all small sized nations, has since learned to get on with her larger neighbours but don't start complaining just because Poland feels compelled to display its own heartfelt grievances. They have the sovereign right to raise these issues as has the UK with regard to it's so-called red line issues. Fintan, too, is entitled to make his point.

Daithi, Tipperary, Ireland

It's not a question of the "present" Polish government. All the political parties in Poland support the government on this issue.

To Rod - Of course, and voting in general should be based on who pays taxes. If I pay $40k in taxes I should have 40 times the voting power of someone who pays $1k in taxes. And if you don't pay any taxes, you don't vote. Makes sense to me.

To "Vincent" - the word is "negotiated" - if you really were an American you would know that.

Cato, los angeles, CA

The Polish government were only too keen to become a member of the European Union not so long ago. They benefit enormously from EU structural funds that have helped shore up their infrastructure, agriculture and service industry. The EU has opened up Poland’s borders and given it huge opportunities that it otherwise would not have had. Germany is a net contributor to the EU budget and as one of the most powerful EU economies is at the forefront in offering technical and structural aid to its Eastern European neighbours. To bring up the war dead as a negotiating tactic is macabre, inappropriate and not worthy of those who died in Poland during the war. Multiculturalism is, by far, the best approach to handle Europe’s future needs. As well the Polish government knows.

Kathleen, Leuven, Belgium

Unfortunately the current debate (the mere mention) on the EU constitution brings out the rabid "little englander lets get out brigade". Lets stay and change what we can. The laws and rules coming from the EU are no worse than those coming from our own government. As far as referendum is concerned, we had one, and as Matthew Parris said recently (talking about Northern Ireland) the majority should not always be listened to, carefull and knowledgeable judgement has to be made by those elected. It is interesting that a lot of the issues surrounding current discussions about working practices etc are to the advantage of the working men and women and are over issues which adversly effect the British work force at the moment. Its a shame that along with the press the baying crowd dont look at the advantages of membership of the EU. of course its not all roses but there are many advantages.
As a nation lets go on and not keep looking back.

mike gee, bournemouth, uk

On the ethical side, the Polish contingent is basically right.

One nation cannot seriously expect to massively 'depopulate' other nations, and then introduce a system of populationally-proportionate political representation for collective governance of the nations involved.

In America, there is a Presidential election scheduled for November 2008.

If die-hard political campaigners systematically began to murder dissenting US voters now, could they thereby produce a legitimate victory for their own favoured, future candidates?

I for one, seriously hope not...

It is worth considering the point that a person is should not, automatically, be disenfranchised -- politically or morally -- as a result of having been the victim of murder: as a result of assassination, war, or genocide.

HK, Irvine,

Sounds a good enough argument. Mind you the Poles would then have to give one of their extra votes to each of the UK and Ireland because that is where a good proportion of the Poles now live.

Frank Brookes, Taunton,

Hang on a minute, the Germans did not just kill jews, a common misconception. Non-jewish Poles were also sent to Auschwitz and other concentration camps.

If I was Poland, this new "voting rights" for the EU would look too much like Germany trying to rule Europe (again!) I can understand why they are worried. Poland has dreamed of being a free country for generations (there was a time in Europe it was removed from the map). Anything that challenges this is going to be met with some hostility.

And they should say "thank-you" to the West? For what exactly? Handing Poland on a plate back to Russia after WW2? I wonder how good Britain's economy would be if the population was halved and under the power of the Soviet Union?

Maybe they would be better of joining in with the USA, but it would be a bit tricky to do geographically. Britain should definitely leave the EU like a sinking ship.

Jo, Oxford, UK

Poland's remarks on Germany's WWII dark past offends EU etiquette. The U.K. should be aware that Polands bad taste and wrath could easily turn against Britian too, who has no interest whatsoever in building up Poland as equal EU-partner (why, Britain itself doesnt want the EU). On the contrary, over 500.000 Polish workers, students, plumbers were lured to the island to keep Britians demographic figures stable. I could imagine, that this source of 'white blend' is much more appreciate by the shrinking white population than ever more Pakistani, Chinese and Hindi, who do not replace proper Scots or Englishmen THAT easily. Be aware of Poland. It is looking for its 20 million never born Polish in Germany, and it might look our for the next 20 million Polish born elsewhere to strengthen the Anglophone world, alas, not the beloved Polish mothernation.

Thorsten Pattberg, Edinburgh, Scotland

"Hans-Gert Pöttering...President of the European Parliament, said that such comments 'should no longer be made in the 21st century'."

Does this mean the E.U. will stop raising the spectre of WWII to "justify" its existence in a "Do you want Jones back" manner? Will the peoples of Europe be free to rationally deliberate on their respective futures without this traditional E.U. argumentum ad terrorem? If not, then Poland has every right to call the E.U.'s bluff by asking it to adopt a sincere approach to addressing the consequences of the War, including eliminating the temptation from nations' minds that military aggression will ever be rewarded.

Kevin, London,

I have never been fan of Kaczynski (Prime Minister & President). But now they make me feel very proud as they stood up for their nation. What Germans do recently is simply unacceptable. Germans press published a lot of very subjective, cynical and offensive articles. Even though there are economists/mathematicians who easily prove that Poles have it right and even Germans do not use the system they want to lunch in EU for their internal voting but more similar to the one which was proposed by Polish side. And how they dare to comment Polish enormous suffer during 2nd war. Before 2nd war Poland was democratic and economically stabilized country - then we were hit by Germans from west and then by Russians from East. Eventually Germans lost but our country was completely demolished and what left for 50 years under Russian rules. And now they ask us for taking that EASY - oh please give us a brake we do not want from you anything else than justice in EU.

Darius - Company Owner, London,

I can't believe Poland is asking to take into consideration their loss during the WW2!
We should all do the same then...they should be ashemed of themselves for asking that kind of thing!

Romain, Brighton, UK

As an British ex-pat living in Poland for the past 12 years I am embarrased by the Kacynski brothers behaviour and lack of diplomacy - their comments DO NOT represent the population they represent. Thier attitudes come from thier mother, a war camp survivor, and thier obsession with the past. Please note niether brother had EVER left Poland before becoming Primie Minister and President - they have no understanding of the world out side thier own little bizarre empire.

Mark, Warsaw, Poland

The current comments on the EU are nothing to do with a largely biased media then? I have heard very little positive reported in any UK media for the last 10 years. Nothing on success stories, and instead we are fed a constant drip-drip of negative and xenophobic, isolationist stories about immigration, the Euro, the French CAP etc. etc. with the result that the British public have become brainwashed. Interestingly, for a dynamic forward thinking nation we seem mentally trapped in the past.

Jon Kingsbury, Southampton, UK

Will the Poles be demanding compensation from Russia too following the partition of Poland in 1939 between Germany and Russia?

Martin, Rotherham , UK

I don't blame Poland why should they have to take any more garbage from Germany. What Germany did to Poland from 1939 to 1945 can not ever be forgotten.
As for Blair he keeps saying he has 4 points that are not negotiable how far can he be trusted? he gave away the British rebate with little fight and left France still with
large farm subsidies so I don't expect much from him in these discussions, if he really wanted protect British interests all he has to do is tell the EU that any decision
must be sanctioned by referendum.

Barry Holmes, Christchurch, New Zealand

Let's follow Poland's example: why not calculate what every country's population would have been had it not been for the war (and why stop at just one war?) and then we can really confuse matters. Where shall we stop? Waterloo? Culloden? the Crusades?!

G McEwan, Edinburgh, UK

The USA has had its offset a thousand times over with interest.
The UK bankrupted itself defending freedom and ridding the world of German and Japanese tyranny. The USA came out of the war considerably richer than it went in and used it's wealth in the post war years to achieve the world economic and military dominance it has enjoyed to this present day. !

andy james, Lyon, France

The Poles. We are exactly like our president. We always arque, that's our character, it is in our DNA. Thats why Europe will never (at least not soon) be together. "Europeans" cannot understand each other, too many things divides us. We would have to start with new empty piece of paper and start thinking in new way. EU can survive only as one nation with one language, one relligion, one passport and have something that unites us together (come on politicans not a blue flag!). We all know what happend to babel tower. Don't we?

1 vote/1 senator per region (not country) and thats it. 1 president/prime minister. Just make it simple!

Grzegorz Brzeczyszczykiewicz, Warsaw, Poland

Some facts are required regarding Polands population decline between 1939 and 1945.

It droped by 11million (37 to 26)

However of that 11 million, 6 million whwere in the area annexed by USSR and 3 million were Jews, of whom sadly the Polish played a significant part in eradicating as did many Slavic nations. If I were Polish I would not bring up the war the nation did not cover itself in glory

Geoff, Belfast,

Hey James from Adelaide when Poland joined the EU what they KNEW was that they would get 27 votes to Germany's 29. Now the Germans want to double their number of votes! Good for Poland don't let them grind you down.

Rick, London, UK

Fintan (Ireland), what a ludicrous comparison. The second world war wasnt a natural disaster...!!!!!!!!
Also i think you will find that the reduced population in Ireland is due to emmigration more than anything else. My grandparents are from Cork, but came over to England (Lincoln). They had four children who then produced 13 children between them and my cousins children now stand at 17 and counting. Thank god the Germans didnt invade Ireland.

Stuart, Sheffield,

Plain nonsense. Moreover, Poland should be deprived of the votes of those millions of Poles that work abroard.

Yakov Sher, London, Uk

Hmm... we should remind Poland, the EU summit is in Brussels not Nuremberg!

B, Caversham, Berkshire

The Poles have a point, but they should remember that if it wasn't for the Brits & the Yanks there wouldn't be a Poland to be in the EU. It's time that other EU states showed some sort of loyalty & gratitude to Britain & supported us in our stand against the 4th Reich & their French, Spanish & Austrian collaborators. The two world wars should be remembered & people should be able to talk freely about them. Every one should remember the Germans aspiration to rule Europe. They failed twice before, but they still persist, although by a different method. What shouldn't be talked about is the disintegration of sovereign states & the creation of a united states of Europe. No-one in Britain has voted agreeing to this, the only thing that was voted on was a common market. It's time politicians did what their electorate wanted them to do. Britain wants te remain in charge of its own destiny & keep ruling itself. However, I still wouldn't be surprised if Blair sells us down the river

Lynda Plum, London, england

Whilst I can't agree with comments that have the potential to disgrace the war dead of many countries, I do think that this maybe an occasion where the Poles save our bacon again.

There have been a number of occasions where the Polish people have stood up to aggression of all colours and have shown the rest of the 'civilised' world up. The Second World War was curtailed significantly by exposure of Enigma to the British, and they may have done it again for us in Brussels this week.

WR, Bury St Edmunds,

Vincent, can you talk in English please?

pawel, St. Helier, Jersey, Channel Islands

As an immigrant twice over - half LIthuanian and half Irish - all I can say is that the UK opponents of British integration into Europe will be rubbing their hands with glee over the Polish claim, which is the funniest Irish joke I have ever heard from Eastern Europe. Admittedly, under the dictatorship of the former Soviet Union, citizens in vassal states such as Poland had to learn how to circumvent the system. But those days are gone. Democracy is democracy and the rules apply to everyone. Wake up, Poland!

Edmund Burke, Kingston upon Thames, England

It`s not a official standpoint of Poland - Jaroslaw Kaczynski IS NOT representing Poland in Brussels - he said this not polite sentence (but true) in polish radio, asked about WWII !!!

luke, lublin, Poland

On that basis we could all argue for more votes. Ireland could argue that it should have its voting rights doubled since the population before the Irish Famine was 8 milllion and is now only 4 million. Spain could argue that its population would be greater if they measured from before the Civil War. Ditto for Greece.
What about if Germany claimed that it should be allowed more votes based on its claim to parts of Poland, Czech Republic and Austria that used to be part of the German Empire? Oops, hold on - last time these kinds of claims were made it started a war...

MB, Edinburgh,

I am amazed at the comment about Poland becoming the 51st member of the Union. She suffered badly through most of her history and contributed greatly to the safety of the UK during WW2. She is an asset to Europe and needs time to drag herself out of the black times of post 1945. Although I do not agree with most things the two brothers (Kaczynski's) say, I must admit they are correct to make a stand against the arrogance of France and especially Germany . Where would the UK be financially if Thatcher had not made her "Handbag" stand. (Which Blair gave away) ?

Jozef, Opole, Poland

Perhaps the Poles should reflect that if they had 66 million people they would still be outside the EU. Make no mistake, the main objection to Turkey or Russia by the powers-that-be is not religion or geopolitics, it is their huge and largely poor population.

Roland, London,

Ok, so WWII was a nasty afair, but does Kaczynskis proposed formula also mean that Britain, France, the then Czechoslavakia and all the other countries involved can also take into account the millions of lives lost and their potential offspring?
Why should Poland get special treatment in this respect?
I think the mathematics for each and every EU country who lost citizens during WWII could get quite complicated, no?

E Cassin, Cheltenham,

Most everyone, with the exception of leading politicians of course, understood that the mad rush to expand EU would be - indeed - nothing but madness, and the inclusion of Poland would lead into nothing else but problems. The Polish themslves have proven it.

Quod est demonstrandum.

Not a tear would shed if they would leave EU.

Seppo J Laessaari, Kvarnberget, Sweden

The UK - and by that I mean the vast majority of the population - was only ever interested in the EEC/EC/EU as an economic group. France and Germany see it as a a federal/social union as well.

Unfortunately, it seems that British politicians are too weak to oppose their French and German counterparts and we are, without the consent of the British people, moving toward a social union.

John, London,

One begins to wonder if Poland really should have been permitted to join the EU if this is the kind of retrogressive, reactionary rhetoric that they come up with. Perhaps the EU would be better off without them seeing as they seem intent on trampling on minority rights, such as those of homosexuals, and evidently do not understand the need to respect divergences of opinion. This assertion by Poland is absurd nationalist rhetoric, inherently racist, and has no place in the modern world.

JL, Paris, France

We should be grateful that Poland is slowing down Blair's determination to sign up to a constitution at any price as his legacy. Poland may not have the best government in Europe but who are the Brits to talk?
Polish people are hard working and willing to do jobs in the UK that the indigenous population are not prepared to get off their feather bedded backsides to do. For example vegetable and fruit picking which is hard back breaking work is staffed to a very large extent by Eastern Europeans.
When the EU has sorted out the endemic corruption and waste (which Kinnock has singularly failed to do) then is the time for further integration.
For the record, I am British, living in Italy but widely travelled in Eastern Europe and with particular knowledge of Poland.

carole chapman, corridonia, i

Shouldn't Briatin press for more votes because of all the migrant Polish workers that it hosts?

Mark Langley, London,

Reminds me of the boy who killed both his parents and then asked the judge for mercy because he's an orphan...

Dear Poles... hundreds of thousands of your war dead are the Jews you so happily looted and turned in to the Nazis (including my family).

The punishment of Poland is the loss of its Jews.

JennyBneiBrak, Bnei Brak,

Vincent,
I think you will find the US received all payment due for their support in WW2 even though it virtually bankrupted the UK.

Brit, Bristol,

Even in 2007 with 38 millions of Poles, this country is still in crisis forcing them to leave their country to get a better life abroad. Poland should prove first its competences before wishing to be compared to the top European countries because it depends financially on them so far. And saying “Poles like Germans”, I don’t think so. Talking about compensations, it is a bit late. Poland has accepted to join the EU knowing that Germany was one of its creators. This time it’s going too far. If Poland is not happy, it can leave the EU. It won't be missed at all.

B, Caversham, Berkshire

Vincent,

Funny that you should mention it but Britain actually payed off the 2WW debt to the USA with a £45 milion payment befor the 31/12/2006....
As for the Poles... this unregulated expansion of the EU makes me worried. They are ruining and stalling what can be a truly unified and coherent Europe... :-(

John, Volos, Greece

@Bobby Bruenner,

I could not agree more and the same applies to the UK.

Franz Enzinger, Vienna, Austria

The Polish government is spot on in their stance. The Germans are pushing for more influence because of a greater population. However, it was their aggression, albeit 65 years ago, that severely decimated Polands population. The 2nd world war should not be forgotten because of offending German sensibilities. The holocaust is FACT and the simple truth is that countries like Poland are still recovering.

Stuart, Sheffield,

My sister's brother-in-law's nephew's cousin got killed in world war 2, therefore, even though it happened 60 years ago, never met the guy and am totally unrelated, I have suffered emotional trauma and demand compensation!
Right!! Get over it Poland. You joined the EU knowing what it was all about. Stop being a pain in the arse, drag yourself into the 21st century, and be part of the EU.
Either that - or simply withdraw.

james, adelaide, australia

Using the Poles' logic, Ireland could make a similar demand: what is today the Republic of Ireland had more than twice as many people in 1840 (a few years before the beginning of the Great Famine) as when we joined the EU. Should our voting strength be increased, at Britain's expense, to allow for this? Cue: snorts of derision in London.

Fintan, Portlaoise, Ireland

poland's claim for consideration reminds me of the "sad story" about a man who was on trial for the murder of his parents begging the judge to take in consideration the fact that he was an orphan.

frances becker, nr acco, iisrael

So how many of its votes will Poland pass on to Israel then? Are they claiming votes for the Jews killed by Poles, or just the ones killed by Germany?

Chris, Newcastle, UK

Poland would have been better off becoming the 51st state of the USA, rather than a whining EU state. They backed the US on Iraq 100%. And let's face it, 1000's on Poles work abroard because their nation is an economic basket case. They should say Thank U to the west, or quit and join Yankee Daddy Bush.

Bobby Bruenner, Cheltenham, Glos.,

The present polish goverment is sick and especially the president with the prime minister i can't look on these aggression

Polish Emigrant, Limerick, Ireland

Personally, I think Britain should withdraw from the whole sordid mess that is the EU. Norway, Iceland, Switzerland are not in the EU and they are doing OK thank you very much. Our trading partners are not suddenly going to stop trading with us just because we're not in the club. Their trading needs won't change one iota and neither will ours. Withdrawal would also give us the space to sort out the mess that is our immigration policy. Besides, the people of Britain voted for closer economic and trading ties, not political and not a United States of Europe.

If we are to remain, then very simply, the voting system should not be changed for the Poles. The countries that contribute the most cash should have the biggest say in how it is spent. We don't want a Polish tail wagging the Euro dog. Britain has been a net contributor for far too long with nothing to show for it. Tony Blair even abjectly surrendered our rebate that Maggie Thatcher had negotiated at the point of her...handbag!

Rod Polisher, Scunthorpe, UK

Gentelmen.
The complaint from Poland is not consistent with their political ethics. We should remember Ike, negociated defense and production, with the european powers. After
WW2. A bit late to collect after all of the fraud thats going
on in Poland!
Oh by the way when does the united states get the offset
on past balances on war debt support!

vincent campellone, garden grove, California, USA