John Follain, Paris
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FOR two decades until his capture in 1994, Carlos the Jackal murdered, bombed and kidnapped his way to infamy, retaining the title of world’s most dangerous terrorist before Osama Bin Laden stole his crown.
But speaking from the Clair-vaux prison in northeast France last week he berated terrorist cells said to have targeted Britain, criticising them for plotting to kill ordinary people.
In his first telephone interview with a newspaper, the Venezue-lan-born Vladimir Ilich Ramirez Sanchez, 57, said he was saddened by any loss of life in London, where he lived as a young man. He also attacked what he called a lack of professionalism in some cells linked to Al-Qaeda.
Sanchez is serving a life sentence for three murders in Paris in 1975. He will go on trial again in January over four bomb attacks in France in 1982 and 1983 that killed 12 people and wounded more than 100.
Sanchez, who is now overweight and diabetic, showed no remorse, laughing when asked about the number of his victims.
“I’m not a sadist or a maso-chist – I don’t enjoy the suffering of others,” he claimed in a thick Latin American accent. “When we had to eliminate them it was in a cold, simple way with the least pain possible.”
His most audacious attack was the kidnapping of 11 oil ministers in Vienna in 1975, which elicited an estimated £10m in ransom. He eluded the CIA and French intelligence with the help of Colonel Muammar Gadaffi, the Libyan leader, Saddam Hus-sein in Iraq and a network of bases behind the Iron Curtain.
“Kensington and Chelsea were places where I spent my youth, so I’m not happy about people getting killed in the streets of London,” he said.
He condemned Al-Qaeda followers without specific targets, saying: “They are not professionals. They’re not organised. They don’t even know how to make proper explosives or proper detonators.”
Sanchez was a self-styled “professional revolutionary” who studied in Moscow in the 1960s before signing up with a Palestinian guerrilla movement. After being dispatched to London in the 1970s, he taught Spanish at a secretarial college in Mayfair, where he flirted with students while making lists of people to be kidnapped or murdered.
His first attempt failed when Joseph Edward Sieff, the president of Marks & Spencer, was shot at his home in St John’s Wood in 1973, but survived.
In 1975, Sanchez shot dead two unarmed counter-intelli-gence officers and an informer near the Sorbonne. When a journalist found a copy of Frederick Forsyth’s thriller The Day of the Jackal at his flat in Bayswater, west London, the nickname “Carlos the Jackal” followed.
To Sanchez’s irritation, it has stuck. He did not object to being called a terrorist but “Jackal” irked him because it was the nickname of an unpopular police chief in Venezuela.
“It was invented by the Guardian. It was my newspaper – I used to buy it every day,” he said.
In 1982 Carlos launched what French prosecutors call “a private war” when his then-girl-friend, Magdalena Kopp, and an accomplice were arrested in Paris with a car full of explosives.
He is accused of blowing up two trains, Marseilles railway station and a Paris street to secure Kopp’s freedom. She married Sanchez and had a daughter.
He dismissed his coming trial as “bullshit”, arguing that the French had no right to prosecute him because he had been illegally detained in Sudan in 1994 and brought to France. “I am being held hostage,” he claimed.
Asked about his victims, he said: “I don’t know how many I’ve killed . . . I’ve been fighting since I was 14. Fighting, fighting. Do you know how many people got killed in these fights?”
The French say the number was 83 but he said: “I couldn’t count. Less than 100 anyway.” And what had those deaths achieved? “Our example has been followed, not only by communists but even by jihadists.”
In 1991 he settled in Amman but sent his wife and daughter to live in Venezuela. “There were too many temptations - pretty girls and married women,” he said. He later married Lana Jarrar, a Jordanian 19 years his junior.
Since his arrest he has been married again, this time to his lawyer, Isabelle Coutant-Peyre. “I think things are more difficult for her than for me, but this is the price to pay for one’s struggle against the empire,” he said.
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I believe he was really freedom fighting.
Vincent Fitzapatrick, Bastrop,
Murder is not freedom fighting.
Randy, Paris,
In reference to MR Gabriel white's view, I dont think that we are glorifying carlos For what he did in the seventies, but personally am thinking of reconciliation.I think People make mistakes and alot of people change. But in order for peace to prevail, some times we dont have to employ revenge.
Have you ever asked your self what could have happened to south africa If the miighty NELSON MANDELA had not forgiven his oppressors? well the same applies to carlos, it is true he was abad man, but can he become a better person and help us fight terrorism? If so what wrong is in pardoning him and then use him to I dentify the causers of terror to society.the civilised society does'nt solve Issues with revenge mr gabriel White. But I respect your views and it's true people need to be punished for thheir bad deeds, but I also strongly believe in reconciliation.
TONY KAZAALA, JINJA, UGANDA>
To the people above who are claiming Sanchez to be "the greatest freedom fighter ever", please have some sense. This man killed more than 70 people! 70 people! For god's sake this man is a murderer we are talking about, not an economist or activist. A cold-blooded killer. I agree that his knowlege of terrorist strategies would be a great asset to the war on terror, but do not forget who you are dealing with. During the 60's and 70's this man was the most notoroious terrorist the world had ever seen up until that point. He murdered, kidnapped, and bombed his way to that title. And now you are labling him as some sort of hero? Please, do not parade Sanchez as a great man.
Gabriel White, Miami, Florida
Well i think every body makes mistakes, and carlos made his, it doesn't matter what he says about what he did before I think there's more we can learn form him especially about the movements of the terrorists,so the world should employ his skills and hence he can help combat terrorism.
I think that there are many countries in the world today killing innocent people under the umbrella of depolmacy,and counter terrorism, so why should we blame a single man for the crimes he commited decades ago, yet there are civilised nations killing innocent people to date,
Well am sorry about what carlos did but lets use him to combat terrorism instead of wasting his brains in jail.
Tony kazaala, jinja, uganda
He still is the greatest freedom fighter ever. In many ways, he was able to remain free for many years until that illegal abduction if his at Sudan. Fight on!
Rex Xavier, Lima, Peru
This man is a disgrace to all venezuelans, I can believe how he can talk so easily about taking people's lives...Anyway is the fault of whoever gave him a tribune to talk all this abominations as it is a "honourable thing" to be a terrorist. He,Al Qaueda and any person or organization who dare to play God and kill because of their "views" are truly disgraces to the humanity, the non plus ultra of the lack of tolerance. Carlos is a disgrace of a country full of peaceful, easy going and respectful people, also an embarrasment of the human kind.
Mila Perez, Toronto, Canada
Tara, thats a great idea, perhaps you should send your CV to the CIA; they are always looking for bright people
tom, london, UK
James Day whilst you have a point on the promotion of fear through the the media, I think you're barking up the wrong tree in deciding who profits the most through this fear. Try looking at your beloved Republicans for an answer to this question. Compare Bush's popularity before and after 9/11. Our very own Gordon Brown, whilst not having even been elected as Prime Minister, still saw his ratings soar following the recent failed car bomb attempts in Lodon and Glasgow. Governments thrive on fear, be it generated directly or through the media. So rather than quote an abundance of Wikipedia style 'statisics' perhaps you should make up your own mind.
Rod Munch, Northampton, UK
T0: James Day, Carlsbad, USA CA.
Despite this rather rambling, and what reads as a somewhat simplistic and very deranged comment, (speaking as a Republican even) James has a point. As a former Marine (in counter terrorism) one of the first things i was taught was that terrorists score major points and even achieve some of their major goals when their acts receive wide spread coverage in the press. On another hand they achieved a real coup when Pres Bush âdeclared warâ on them. In some ways this legitimised their conflict and really did wonders bringing this to the fore and to the attention of the press. True, there needed to be a big public response to the twin towers attack however after the overthrow of the Taliban the Iraq war has distracted from real progress and created a new âfrontâ as well as provided a great recruiting forum for the terrorists. It also has created a situation that whilst many people may not sympathise with them they are sure are less inclined...
Chris, new york,
to James from Carlsbad pt 2:
...to publicly support efforts to go after the terrorists and has created a wide spread mistrust of many legitimate efforts at control and prevention.
Now i donât expect James from Carlsbad to reply in any meaningful way but it would be nice to get a real comment from him...and if this was it may [insert your favourite creator here (Matt Groening perhaps?ï] help us all.
Chris, new york,
These terrorists don't care who they kill, they do for the effect it has on the National left wing MEDIA! The Media in this country and the world gives the terrorists a forum of fear!
The terrorists play the Democrats who suffer from Bush derangement syndrome, with the help of our MEDIA glorify these ruthless killers around the world!
Take away the left leaning surrender monkey treasonist Media, the attacks would be cut by 80%! I almost think the Media and the Democrats have ties to terrorism through ownership in the Media (70% of the American media is owned by Muslims by stock) and the Democrat party recieves 40% of campaign money from Muslim groups like CAIR who have been tied to terrorism!!! I think since Ellison took the oath on the KORAN, we need to follow the money trail on the Democrat PARTY, you would be shocked!
James Day, Carlsbad, USA CA.
Carlos should be recriuted to get Osama. And if he succeeds,he should be set FREE.
tara, New York, U.S.A
Good choice, Elizabeth Schumann.
The Marquis de Sade was an inmate of Charenton as well.
Gerard Mulholland, Paris, France
Carlos is correct about AQ incompetence. Remember, most three-digit IQ types can pull off a SUICIDE-bombing! The Guardian is still plumping for terrorism and terrorists!
Carlos & his Fatah killers got away after their exploits---bloody & cowardly though they were. Mohammed Atta & his crews are the only real success story among the bungled attempts. Remember that idiot shoe-bomber? That's the AQ average hit....
daveinboca, Boca Raton, FL USA
There used to be a place in France for such people. It was called Charenton, France's Bedlam. But it's probably too good for Carlos types. Brilliant writers such as Antonin ARTAUD had stints as inmates.
elizabeth schumann, Paris, France
"Struggle against the empire" indeed! Has he OD'ed on Geoge Lucas??
Shishir Baxi, Dubai, UAE
Ramirez Sanchez was known among Western intelligence agencies as an incompetent, a seeker of infamy, and one who was accredited with acts he never committed. He was good at disguise. Presumably he has some value to someone or he would not still be alive.
Tony Gold, Bangkok, Thailand
Well that's another 'opinion' worth having isn't it!
Well done 'The Times' for ensuring we get ALL the arguments. Wouldn't be fair otherwise would it!
Mark, London,