Roger Boyes in Berlin
Star musicians and your favourite Times writers at the Albert Hall

White Muslim converts have brought the Islamic holy war into the heart of Europe with a narrowly thwarted plot to blow up hundreds of people in German airports, discotheques and restaurants.
Three men — two Germans and a Turk who are believed to have received explosives training at a terrorist camp in Pakistan — were arraigned by the federal prosecutor yesterday after a nine-month police operation.
Undercover agents using US intelligence followed and eavesdropped on the young men as they collected 750 kilos (1,650 pounds) of hydrogen peroxide and military detonators to be used in simultaneous suicide truck bomb attacks on American installations and meeting places.
Hydrogen peroxide was a key ingredient in the London Tube bombs, but experts said that the explosives being prepared in a villa in the Black Forest would have wrought destruction on an even greater scale than the attacks on July 7, 2005.
Conversations between the suspected terrorists mentioned the Ramstein airbase, Frankfurt airport and clubs used by American families as possible targets. “They were motivated by hatred of America and this influenced their choice of targets,” said Jörg Ziercke, president of the Federal Criminal Investigation Agency (BKA), the German equivalent of Scotland Yard.
Several terrorist plots have been uncovered in Germany since September 11, 2001, but this one has shocked Germans more than any other: it has exposed the existence of a home-grown terrorist potential. The features of 28-year-old Fritz G were blanked out in his arrest photographs yesterday but there was no doubt about it: he was white and, for his neighbours in Ulm, quite unmistakably “our Fritz”. Like his accomplice, 22-year-old Daniel S. from the Saarland, he was a Muslim convert.
“Converts tend to be more radical and fanatical than those who have been Muslims since they were in the cradle,” Hans Joachim Giessmann, a terrorism expert at the Hamburg Institute for Peace Research, said. “They are driven either by politics or the fervour of their new faith rather than any cultural tradition.”
All three — the third man has been identified as Adem Y, 29, a Turk — met in Pakistan, where investigators believe that they received explosives training at a Taleban-linked camp. The three are believed to be members of the Islamic Jihad Union, an Uzbek-based group with close links to al-Qaeda. The group has branched out into Pakistan after organising attacks on Israeli and US diplomatic missions in Uzbekistan.
After returning from Pakistan, Fritz G became an active member of a mosque in Ulm that has played host to radical preachers. But he was spotted by the police only by accident: his car was observed driving around the US military base at Hanau, near Frankfurt, on New Year’s Day. From that moment an intensive investigation began, drawing in 300 undercover agents. The purchase of huge quantities of hydrogen peroxide was the clinching sign that the group was potetentially dangerous.
Mixed correctly, the chemicals were capable of triggering explosions equivalent to 500 kilos of TNT. By contrast, the bombers in London carried no more than three to four kilos of explosive. The potential blast would have been bigger than the Madrid and London bombings combined.
The chemicals were stored in three containers. The watching police became so nervous that they broke cover, waiting until all three men were in different parts of Germany before swapping the contents for a diluted version. That task alone involved hundreds of detectives across the country.
The turning point came on Tuesday. The chemicals had been transferred from the holiday home in the Black Forest to a rented house on the borders of the state of Hesse. The chemicals were starting to deteriorate, the location was near US air bases, the detonators had been acquired: it looked as if the group was ready to strike.
The police were sceptical yesterday that the three men could have primed the explosives in time for a strike on the September 11 anniversary, but Monika Harms, the state prosecutor, did not want to take the risk.
Members of the GSG 9 anti-terrorism unit broke down the door of the house and grabbed two of the suspects. A third wriggled through the bathroom window but was overpowered 300 metres away. He snatched the policeman’s pistol as they wrestled on the road and the gun went off. The officer was wounded in the hand.
The group is thought to have had generous external funding. They had crisscrossed the country buying chemicals, rented houses under false names and used several cars. “These were not amateurs,” an investigator said.
Immediately after the arrests, police began a search of 41 apartments across Germany. The police have 890 potentially dangerous Muslim German residents on their lists. Wolfgang Schäuble, the Interior Minister, emphasised, however, that German Muslims would not become automatic suspects.
The British connection
— German police copied tactics used by British anti-terrorist investigators to render the bomb plot impotent
— In 2004 Scotland Yard detectives watching a group of terrorists planning a bomb attack in London switched their hoard of fertiliser for a container of cat litter. Similarly, German officers removed high-strength hydrogen peroxide from their suspects’ hideout and replaced it with a weaker solution
— Britain has faced more al-Qaeda plots than any other Western European nation since 2001. British tactics, legislation and mistakes are therefore carefully studied by other police forces
— The plot uncovered by German police bears similarities to terrorist activity in Britain. Like many British terrorists, the men arrested in Germany are reported to have received training in Pakistani tribal areas, where al-Qaeda now has its camps
— Hydrogen peroxide-based explosives are a common al-Qaeda weapon and formed the basis of the 7/7 suicide bombs and 21/7 failed bombs. Since then hydrogen peroxide has been made much more difficult to obtain in Britain. Similar restrictions are not, however, in place elsewhere
Source: Times archives
Follow our three athletes' progress in their preparations for the London Triathlon, and pick up training tips and more
Enjoy screenings of all the classic films you love, plus take advantage of two-for-one tickets
We explore leisure activities that are safe and suitable for all of the family
Times Online's new TV show helps you make the right decisions for your pet
Read our exclusive 100 Years of Fleming and Bond interactive timeline, packed with original Times articles and reviews
The latest travel news plus the best hotels and gadgets for business travellers
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles


Overseas contacts and local business information

A treasure trove of baubles, booty and stylish quests


£129,500
Bentley Edinburgh
H. Iqbal, Lahore. America won't have to - India will take care of Pakistan - with 1,170 million.
Phil, Preston,
We have had enough war and conflict on our European soil over the past hundreds of years. Just when it looks like we have finally become bored fightening each other a new masked form of foreign inspired bigotry looms on the horizon.
In Europe we are supposed to VOTE when we have an grievance, perhaps this should be driven into the heads of our new bearded friends.
John Mohammed, Stockholm, Sweden
The comments here by "Stanzier" from NY are undoubtably not written by someone in NY. They read like he is a terrorism supporter. I am in NY and no one here would say what he said about how troops must be pulled out in response to terrorism. They know that America is not popular, but they also regard that as a smaller - and unrelated problem to the one at hand: how the world will put a stop to these IslamoNazis (and it WILL, Stanzier. Sorry.)
Brian, New York, NY
unfortunately people do not differentiate between muslims and islam muslims are human beings they are not all angels i condemn every act could cause hurt for every one in the world and islam refuses it but muslims who live in the west have no jurisprudence in their relegion so the fanatic thoughts break throught easily but when u are saying islamic terrorism your are defaming islam as well but i want to remember the european commentators with the catholic terrorism in medevils over the middle esat the crusades but as a muslim who belives un cristianty and the message of the christ i can not connect christianty as a peaceful religion with the brutality of crusades
ahmed amir, cairo, egypt
To Aaron
Who said there is religious liberty everywhere. Havea look at the Middle East and Islamic countries and you will know you are wrong, or you can merely read the story of the Korean missionaries who were kidnapped (two killed )in Afghanistan for preaching Christianity.
Cross, Cairo, Egypt
H.Iqbal , Lahore pakistan ...
Your quite deluded if you think that sane people of any religion want to throw their lives away for the criminal ideology you so obviously follow !
If your death cult fanatasies where actualy so integral to the majority of muslims there would be millions of murderers blowing themselves up not the several hundred a year.
The FACT is that few outside of the most brainwashed or mentally ill are willing to become traitors to the human race and commit the crimes against humanity you revel in !
One of the reasons your sick ideology has failed to gain the support you dream of is that they know your kind is not to be trusted as your ilk will quickly turn on anyone who deviates from your very narrow biggoted views much like the Nazi's did to their nation or the Talliban did to theirs .
I can only hope for the sake of your countrymen that you are already on a ISI watch list !
Scott, Vancouver, Canada
Im a Pakistani Muslim with a beard! All my life I have lived in Karachi. The rest of the world thinks that we are radicals. But let me tell you, we do NOT hate America, we do not hate Americans or people of any other country in the west. But I do not agree with their foreign policy. It is immoral to attack a country and steal their natural resources. Millions of Iraqis and Afghans have been killed and still the murderurs do not accept their mistakes and insted expect praise.
Muhammad, Karachi, Pakistan
It seems to me that Islamic radicals are actively RECRUITING Muslim converts in Britain and Europe, into terrorism, to "throw off the scent" and confuse the authorities, so there is no crack-down on immigration from Muslim countries. The radicals know that if too many people from, say, Pakistan, are caught in terrorist activities, then the governments will put major restrictions on immigration from Pakistan. So they recruit European converts, or use Muslims from countries not normally associated with Islamic terrorism, such as India. This is a very shrewd strategy and I'm amazed that the authorities can't figure this out.
Joe T., LA, USA
Duncan: these guys are real Muslims. They truly believe they are doing is god's work. As with all religions there is a whole spectrum of variations on the interpretations of a particular god's word and for each variation there is a further spectrum of how fanatical people believe that variation. Look at the variations of Christian churches: Morans, Methodists, Catholics , each one believing they are the true word and everyone else is wrong.
Denver Watt, Osaka: it is another mistake to label them "evil", they truly believe what they are doing is right and with the blessing of god. We really need to understand the psychology of how these guys work, so we can detect and defeat them using our powers of science and reason before they let off a weapon of mass destruction, which is in nobodies interest.
roger, london,
I agree with the person who said why all of a sudden there so many alleged plots, in London few days after Brown took over?
Now Germany after Merkle getting very friendly with Bush Brown unholy alliance..something rotten in the state of Denmark don't you think? I can't stand the jihadists who are too stupid to figure out they are being used..their masters are in cahoots with Bush's sinister cabel..wake up folks 'There is something goin on and you don't know what it is do you Mr Jones?'
sade symon, london, UK
To all those who fail to understand why the Muslims hate the USA.
1..They support militarily Israel even against thier own rules
2..They force thier brand of freedom on others who have completely different values.
3..They bomb and invade countries that do not agree with them
4..They try to enforce embargoes on countries that do not like them
It is true that a lot of people hate Americans for no real reason but when even your allies question your motives and methods are uncomfortable with them then you should rethink your strategy.
You will be kicked out of Iraq and then you will be kicked out of Afganistan simply because these people have never been conquered and see the west as invaders and do not want us there. At least once this happens and you have another Vietnam you will spend 20 years bloodletting and leaving the World alone.
joe kellie, Edinburgh, Scotland
@ Matthew,Hamburg
Thanks for putting that straight.
@ H. Iqbal, Lahore, Pakistan
" I would love to see you americans try. There's 170million of us waiting to enter Afghanistan to deal with you if you dare."
Do I get you right? ENTER AFGHANISTAN? However, thanks for reveiling your idea that Afghanistan is Pakistan's battleground. Deal with whomsoever in your own country! Pakistan,stay out of Afghanistan and we will have peace there eventually!
Rebecca, Cologne, Germany
Some of the commenters on here don't seem to have read the article: two of the terrorists were Germans! They were funded by extremists from abroad but they were Germans, born and raised so immigration control has nothing to do with this problem.
Germans already have pretty strict immigration laws compared to the UK. It would be a serious challenge to any immigrant to just turn up there and get benefits and housing as the German system is nearly impossible to evade and requires every resident (even native-born Germans) to register their movements with the police (Meldeamt) when they change address (although not everyone sticks to the letter of the law).
What you really need to question is why two young Germans feel so alienated from their real cultural identity that they turn to Islam for a sense of belonging.
MB, Edinburgh,
I would concur with S. Kumar above. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing the inevitable financial and ideological links to Saudi Arabia. See www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com for more info on how this pattern has developed in the past.
Bill B., Chicago, IL, USA
Perhaps if we all sacrificed a goat or two this situation, along with any number of faulty airliners, might be magically rectified.
Mark, London,
USA keeps insisting that it is at war so how can it not expect attacks?
javed, london, uk
Traveller: That majority of Muslims you claim, who are ashamed of what the jihadists are doing that you refer to , aren't doing anything about the terrorists Pakistan is harboring -- they are doing their best to get rid of Musharraf who had been trying to do something about them.
If a country harbors terrorists, they should be fair game for the effort needed to rid the world of the terrorists. Pakistan should be treated as Afghanistan was, but with a little more caution because of their nuclear weaponry.
Wallace Edward Brand, Alexandria, Virginia, USA
H. Iqbal, Lahore, Pakistan:
India has beaten Pakistan easily in multiple wars over the years so I hardly think that the worlds mightiest military superpower would break much of a sweat doing it.
You can't fight high-tech modern miltary hardware with manpower, it doesnt work that way, but since your country is run by an oppressive military dictatorship the truth is probably a hard thing to come by.
J Roberts, Manchester, UK
George Bush, heir apparent to the proceeds of the worldwide corporation, Carlysle Group( with its gigantic holdings in Iraqi petroleum and petroleum infrastructure) has brought an entire nation into a foreign civil war, resulting international conflict and an unparalleled hatred for the United States, which, pre-Bush, was a role model for democracy. Name one person, since Adolph Hitler, who has caused such historical calamity.
.Jdg. W.J. Wynn, birmingham, USA, Alabama
Now why would any sane person hate America (government, rather than citizens)? Is it conceivably possible that invading or otherwise grossly interfering in the internal affairs of some 70 countries since 1945 offers a clue here? Or that the petrodollar cycle allows the US to tax the rest of the world. Naw, Iâm just clutching at straws.
But seriously, you don't get to be most hated and feared nation in the world without making a sustained effort.
Andrew Milner, Karuizawa, Nagano
As a Muslim myself, I'm understandably annoyed when 'muslims' do things like this! All it means is that EVERYONE thinks that is what Islam is about, killing kaafirs and having no regard for life. However, what is said in the Quran is that killing one person is as bad as killing the whole of mankind. Another thing that is said is that God gave you life, and only He can take it. That doesn't support killing people or blowing yourself up. Martyrs can be those who are killed for their faith, not fighting people to provoke it. If you want decent answers, read some Ahmadi Muslim views - the best articles are those by Mirza Tahir Ahmed. Interestingly enough, Ahmadi's take a very fierce stand against violence of any nature.
SK, London,
The time has come for us Europeans and not our polticians to enforce our overwhelming desire to defend our home from invasion or immigration as it is referred to by the Establishment.
Marco Borg, London, United Kingdom
obviously, converts are going to be extreme - they already hate the societies in which they live. islam is just a way of giving these losers some purpose and sense of their own importance. empty vessels are what the purveyors of evil rely upon. (like all religion.)
most of the middle east feels a sense of grievance which has very little to do with islam and everything to do with being oppressed. when the us is not actively bombing them, it is propping up ugly regimes that make them miserable. it is notable that in the more free islamic states there is far less extremism.
it's not really surprising they operate under the flag of islam, given the crusading rhetoric from our own untrustworthy leaders. but it's not exactly the good christian thing to bomb civilians, is it? increasing their prosperity will make them too fat and lazy to bother with jihad.
jem, london, uk
Many members of the German Government and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will spare them from the wrath of fanatical Islamists. How wrong could they be. Now an Islamist terrorist cell has been discovered in Germany (with links to the UK) planning murder and mayhem. We must not listen to media reporters. politicians, preachers, do-gooders who go on about the need to "reach out to terrorists. To understand and forgive". What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, directed against our free, open Western societies, intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction. It is a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness
michael pickles, bournemouth, england
Western academics should develop a liberal critical reading of the Koran, as has been done with the Bible since the Enlightenment. But no British University department of religious studies or theology is prepared to allow normal text critical to be applied this 7th Century text - they are scared of violent reprisals.
Until this book, containing some violent injunctions, is accorded the privilege of a proper, normal western scholarly criticism. Islam will continue on its very unstable path. Fundamentalism prevails everywhere, and the West is failing in its duty to help Islam into the modern age by its political and academic cowardice.
Fatimah, Homerton, UK
I live in Germany, though not a German National, and I have to say I believe Germany is far too liberal!
Stop allowing people to live in the country who clearly do not share our way of life, our principles, our belief systems and our passion for democracry and freedom.
My Motto: When in a Moslem country do as the Moslems do and when in Germany and Europe do as the Europeans do or go back to where you came from! We are not the same. Our cultures are different. Our histories are different.
I don't expect democracy in the Middle East nor do I expect an Islamic Europe.
The two German terrorists should be imprisioned for Life, and I mean Life for Treason. And the Pakistani should be sent back to Pakistan with a one-way ticket and ensure that all know that he broke under interrogation!
Siobhan, Germany, Munich,
Surely it is high time for the Spiritual Leaders of Shia and Sunni Moslems to come out and together put a fatwa on any moslems terrorists taking action anywhere in the world in the name of Islam?
Ben Genevieve, Perth, Western Australia
In situations like this we must ask what incubates terrorism? And I think the anwer is organised ignorance. Any form of religion that takes what are quite obviously primitive dark age myths, trumpt up by some cult nut in Arabia 1400 and something years ago, should not be accorded the same level respect and dignity as other more sophisticated forms of philosophy, even those such as Marxism and National Socialism. Furthermore I wish people would stop giving credience to these pathetic conspiracy theories. Ie the US air force blew up the WTC. The Jews are behind all the ills of the world ect. The fact is the Islamic world has always resented Europe for shattering the belief in their destiny of world domination at the gates of Vienna and Grenada and are determined to punish Europe as a result. That is why these terrorist attacks were partly intended to kill and maim Germans as well as Americans even though Germany currently has no troops involved in the UN backed handover in Iraq.
Chris, London, UK
London, Germany and the bombings in India: Pakistan is in the midst of it all, and lets not forget which superpower backed them over the years. However, it would be unfair to blame all Pakistanis for the deeds of a few fanatics. The need of the moment is to target the terrorist camps, not to rave and rant against Muslims all over the world. As for being more careful about who one lets into the country, look at the security measures in the US, even if you are just passing through... I wonder though, wouldn't the open borders in Europe undermine such an attempt?
Jazz, Munich,
Crikey Sean! What an ignorant generalisation! Allow me to update you: 1) There are approx 1,9 million Turkish citizens in Germany, forming 26 per cent of all registered foreigners and the largest ethnic minority. Add the approx 700.000 citizens of Turkish origin and you have approx 2,6 million people. Approx 3% of the total German population. These people and/or their forefathers helped rebuild Germany in the 60s and 70s (the so-called Wirtschaftswunder). They are generally liked and respected. There are Turks in the German parliament, Turkish professional footballers in the Bundesliga, Turkish entertainers and many successful Turkish businesses and restaurants. Germany would be a different place today if it were not for the Turks. I should know, I live here. 2) Initial reports suggest that there at least two ethnic white Germans amongst the suspects. The report speaks of ONE Turkish suspect. 3) Your border-monitoring theory makes you more of a target rather than providing an answer
Mathew, Hamburg, Germany
Stanzler's view is beyond dumb
Herbert, new york, ny
TOTALLY disagree with Samual Young. Without America racking up the aggro on every front the world would be a far safer place. Why is it that the Western nations in general are content to allow this to happen, isn't this why we have the U.N?
David Homewood, Argentat, France
Finally a bad day for Al Qaida. I would like to hear of more success in the war against terrorism. It is obvious, that more and more (young) people in my country convert to Islam - some of them become even islamists, while on the other hand christian "missionaries" (where´s the proof?) from South Korea are murdered by islamists. Strange world!
While muslim people in Europe are allowed to built mosques, share their beliefs, do mission work, people all around the globe have to fear for their life, when they try to convert from Islam to christianity.
I´m glad that nothing happened this time. It´s the third time a terror attack couldn´t carried out in Germany. We must be lucky people.
Sebastian, Berlin, Germany
Here we go again....another Sept 11 approaches and lots of 'alleged' plots are now, by magic, spriging up everywhere. This is becoming so consistent and predictable that I just cannot accept these 'alleged' plots anymore.
I will bet that in 3 months time - all will be released without charge - without any hullaballoo from Western media outlets.
Samuel, Glasgow,
Mrs Harvey
I think you misunderstood. M iqbal was replying to someone who said Pakistan should be attacked & wiped out. and seems to be saying 170m odd would be ready to DEFEND themselves in case of attack. ("I'd like to see you try etc") and NOT that people would abandon their peaceful lives to attack others - although tragically there are many who are doing that sort of thing. The majority of muslims and pakistanis feel deeply ashamed of being associated in the public mind with these people.
Traveller, london,
I don't know - suddenly an extremely right-wing minister for the interior (Schäuble) is on the scene and really dangerous terrorists turn up just days away from causing carnage. I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories but if Merkel and co suddenly want to help out the USA in Iraq (maybe even Iran some day soon) using this as an excuse, I wouldn't be a bit surprised any more.
Ted, Munich, Germany
Let's all put our brains back in shall we?
Muslims call Allah 'compassionate' and 'merciful'. Mohammed himself preached tolerance to the nonbelievers.
These guys scream 'jihad' and invoke the name of Allah to justify their actions and drum up support. To them, anyone who does not believe is a kaffir (a racist insult if ever was). These people cannot be real Muslims, any more than the IRA are Catholics.
Duncan, Epsom, Surrey
why do most of them go to pakistan? the islam there is distorted & twisted anyway.
problem is in us , muslims, who continue to hold firm onto scholastic thoughts, thinking its religion when it is not, this is the result, glorifying jihad & suicide bombers in sermons that are reminiscent of medievel times, the whole world will be against muslims, if they dont free their minds from the scholarly dogma.
frustrated, alexandria,
The alleged terrorists were apprehended just at the most opportune time for the Interior Minister and other reactionary politicians, when they were about to lose the ongoing debate on whether to legalize governmental computer cracking into citizens' private computers.
Allegedly, in July already, authorities have clandestinely exchanged the chemicals the group has stored for something less harmful. Looks like they've "kept warm" some hobby-terrorists, to be able to bust them at a politically opportune moment.
Matt, Wuerzburg, Germany
stanzler
Pulling our troops will make no difference.
John, Lafayette, usa/la
Sorry 'stanzler', but any kind of scum who communicates through the murder of innocent people probably can't be reached via a charm offensive.
Ron, San Jose, USA
Islam is a religion of peace and love!
The white converts to Islam, trying to blow up targets in Germany, is a classical example of Islamic extremists undermining the very system, from which they extract maximum advantages!
Want any bigger proof of fifth columnist activities and pan Islamic loyalties?
Regards,
Krishna R. Kumar, Udupi, India
People who say the world hates America are nuts. Look at the number of visitors from all over the world. Look at the people queuing up for green cards. Look at the way young people want freedom, entertainment and so on like in the US, even young Iranians. The antipathy to yanks in England during WW2 was because they had the money and the nylons to attract the girls! It wasn't hate, just a frustration. Come on America! recognise that when you're the power in the world you attract envy and malice. After all, the French and the English with their Empires have already been there.
Mike , Paris, France
Mr. Iqbal from Lahore - What makes you think there are 170m people mad enough to risk a normal and happy life with their families rather than living in squalor, facing your own or your 'colleagues' death in the name of Allah who,after all, stands for PEACE and LOVE in this world. EnsAllah you will see sense - but somehow I fear brainwashing by the Mullahs have already turned you into a lost soul. I will still pray for your wellbeing, but in that process, will also pray for your intended vicitms. Wake up and stop your murderous thoughts - this is not what Allah intended
Mrs Harvey, Salisbury,
Joe Mc, you should remember that most of the victims of violence in Iraq are Muslims. The extremists don't mind killing them either.
Gary N, NY, NY
Being German and a Muslim usually raises eyebrows where ever I go. I have great faith in the security services and am happy they caught these plotters. What we need to be careful off howevers is not to alienate culturaly integrated moderate Muslims living in Europe and the US who also oppose Islamic Terrorism. Trust me we dislike the extremists as much as anyone especially as we experience the lashback of their actions in everyday life.
Jaffa, Sydney, Australia
And to think that many believe the Iranians should be left to develop a nuclear weapon !!
A nuclear weapon is the terrorists' aspirational weapon.
Terrorists see beyond mere hate for America - insteas they covet a 'Will to Power' as Nietzche puts it.
Peter, Auckland, NZ
The news that one turk has been arrested should surprise no one. Turkish people I know have told me that in Germany Turks there are subjected to Wahhabi extremist teachings (from Saudi Arabia) and hardline Deobandism (from Pakistan) which makes some of them radical.
This causes a problem when they return to Turkey where the population are mostly Sunnis following the Naqshbandi Sufi orders.
Germany should encourage Islamic teaching from Turkey rather than from the Gulf States.
S Kumar, London, UK
Too bad we can't send the captured terrorists to Guantanamo so they could see how we hate them too!
Wayne, Biloxi, USA/MS.
i'm not sure why they would draw the distinction between persons who have grown up as muslims or converts, it is same ideology that is driving their objectives. the title of the article should simply read, 'muslims target germany.'
neil, sydney, aus
Once again a big mistake has been made, US/UK announced well in advance their dislike of Saddam Hussein and coming invasion of his country. With the help of men/woman wearing uniforms and weapons including explosives (home made of course, the UK arms industry alone is worth £millions) Iraq was invaded with the awful casualities that have failed in most cases to make the headlines. The headlines now of course are filled with these awful people who want to get their own back , so the message is clear , if you hate USA/UK/ for its 100+ years of meddling in the middle east get yourself out in the open , wear a uniform with pride , arm yourself to teeth and state your intentions clearly e.g 'shock and awe'.
I t was an american who invented the light bulb, now might be a good time to turn it on.
Paul Gibbons, M.Keynes , UK
Why do you suppose they hate America? Because it's one of the major obstacles between them and their stated goal: a worldwide muslim caliphate.
Mike Wood, Bradford, UK
"this influenced their choice of targets".
It did not influence their desire to engage in jihad, just their choice of targets. Even if they did not hate America, they would have chosen to blow something up -- but German targets or Danish targets instead.
Wallace Edward Brand, Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Of course, all of this has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. Of course. It appears to me that the converts are even more fanatical than the ones growing up in Islam, if this is possible. If one watches Arabian TV channels and other information available on the internet, these actions are not a big surprise. They were a question of time. The question will be in the next few years how to deal with people living in our own country and hating it and its value system... This is a problem every nation in W. Europe has. Ah, and by the way, the 3 suspects were largely profiting from the state's social system and hardly working.
Martin k., Duesseldorf, Germany
Yes.......by all means......pull the troops. Allow terrorist and thugs to set foreign policy. Next step setting domestic policy. Bravo!
Larry, Atlanta, USA
Stanzler, these people hated the US and the west long before the invasion of Afghanistan - 9/11 was before the invasion.
An attack on Frankfurt is likely to kill more Germans than Americans, and Germany has no combat troops in Iraq or Afghanistan.
tony, birmingham, uk
Don't panic, dear stanzler from ny, usa . The German branch of the Islamic Jihad Union are perhaps a tiny bit less than the rest of the world, and the German police seem quite capable of dealing with them. Moreover, experience shows that going chicken in the face of threats by rabid criminals merely encourages new attacks. So just take a deep breath and calm down, will you?
Mario Ferretti, L'Aquila, Italy
Personally, I take it as a compliment that terrorists hate us.
jonathan bolles, San Antonio, TX, USA
To Denver - what in the world are you talking about - comparing American Christian fundamentalist w/Islamic terrorist ......"Moral Equivalence.
Several isolated incidences years ago by some "nuts"....that ALL Americas condemned .....is the same as Islamic Terrorism that is sweeping the world?
Drink up .... that Kool aid!
Larry, Atlanta, USA
Farrukh,
Prosecution is too good. There is not enough punishment for this; thats the real problem.
Holly Shaw, London, UK
I think bob is very right everybody would call germans "rasist" and so on.
Also two of the three were germans so there was no possibility to stop them entering germany ... they convertet to Islam but shall we stop all Muslims?
What about "religious liberty" everywhere in the world?
How should we select?
We ARE trying to control it better, but there are so many gaps...it´s nearly impossible.
i want close with that i´m very happy that the terrorists were stopped and send to jail.
Aaron, Bielefeld, Germany
Andrew from London double check your quotes before submitting them: the article says "islamist" terrorists neither the Red Faction or IRA were islamist groups.
James, Plymouth, UK
I don't think that Germany or any other European country should close up more because of terrorists setting up bombs here, There should be tight controls for people from some areas of the world and even if it is neccessary to have authorities scan email traffic and tap phonelines of suspects. What happened shows that surveillance is working.
Martin, Stuttgart, Germany
"received explosives training at a terrorist camp in Pakistan", just like the London bombing. Pakistan is still the Center of Al Qaeda, and should be dealt with accordingly.
gary, austin, USA"
I would love to see you americans try. There's 170million of us waiting to enter Afghanistan to deal with you if you dare.
H. Iqbal, Lahore, Pakistan
stanzler, ny, usa gave it away when he says "Pull Your troops out of the middle east now!". So pretends he is from USA and says "Your" troops, hmm I dont think you even live in USA "Stanzler".
Alan Spears, London, UK
Even if they do hate America that is no excuse to justifying kilingl or murder. Such people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and may God Almighty protect us all from such evil people, amen.
Farrukh, Woking, UK
What this says to me is that no matter what any non-muslims are targets whether we are American,British or any other country. In the minds of muslim extremist we are all infidels. We better be prepared for more of this, eventually we will be hit and by then outrage and condemnation will be of little use to innocent victims.
Joe Mc, Springdale, Arkansas
Hatred of America is nothing new. The nice little old ladies in London during WWII hated the Americans for not helping out soon enough. And then hated the Ameericans for being "over here"
The whole world is not beginning to hate America. They have always hated America right back to the era of the Colonies, for God's sake!
Allan, Bellevue, WA, USA
"received explosives training at a terrorist camp in Pakistan", just like the London bombing. Pakistan is still the Center of Al Qaeda, and should be dealt with accordingly.
gary, austin, USA
How should, especially, Germany decide who is allowed to come in and who is not? As soon as a German or Germany says anything or even thinks about stricter immigration laws, it doesn´t even take a day an people from all over the world bring up their ideas about rassist Germans! That's just not fair!!!
Bob, Leipzig, Germany
To Stanzler: on the contrary, it is because the US is not caving in to extreme Muslims that most "normal" people (i.e. not in the media) are on your side. Most of us Europeans realize that we would be in big trouble if the US didn't exist.
Samuel Young, Paris, France
When I was in Germany in the 1960s' , the Turks were said by the locals to be a problem with regard to the vast numbers coming into Germany.
Perhaps we all should take a lesson & watch more carefully who we let into our countries.
Sean O'Daly, Dallas, NC, USA
Mr Boyes.
It all comes down to religion, whether Islamic ,
American fundamentalist christianity or the papist variety they
are all evil. A plague on all their houses.
Denver Watt, Osaka,
"The first case of white, home-grown terrorists in Europe"? What about Baader-Meinhof and the Red Army Faction? Also, didn't the IRA stage some attacks on British bases in Germany?
Andrew, London, UK
It seems there is no place in the world safe from completely amoral people who will blow up anyone anywhere for the sake of a religious belief. It shows that the survey in England that shows over 50% thing that religion is dangerous are right
Renate Baramy, Ramat Hasharon, Israel
"They were motivated by hatred of America and this influenced their choice of targets"
Americans folks better wake up. The whole wide world is beginning to hate us. Not only have we lost the 'hearts and minds' of Afghani/Iraqi people, but also of rest of the world.
Pull your troops out of the middle east now!
stanzler, ny, usa