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From The Times

January 26, 2008

Italy looks for a new leader — or a new system

RIchard Owen in Rome

President Napolitano of Italy began crisis talks with political leaders last night in an attempt to guide the nation out of political turmoil and restore its image and morale after the departure of Romano Prodi.

Mr Prodi’s resignation, after being defeated in a vote of confidence, leaves Mr Napolitano with the choice of a general election or appointing a caretaker government to overhaul the electoral system. He is known to prefer reform, with Franco Marini, the Speaker of the Senate, favoured as frontrunner.

Mr Marini said he did not seek any high office but would leave it to “the wisdom of the President to resolve this crisis”. A former trades union leader, Mr Marini is a member of the centre-left Daisy (La Margharita) party and is admired for his handling of the Senate since becoming Speaker in 2006.

The centre Right opened champagne bottles on Thursday night, with Silvio Berlusconi, the opposition leader and media tycoon, exclaiming: “To the ballot boxes!” He predicted that the centre Right would have a majority, saying: “The country needs a government that works.” If elected he would be prime minister for the third time since entering politics in 1994.

As Mr Prodi’s defeat was announced, right-wing senators drank from champagne bottles and ate mortadella sausage to mock Mr Prodi, who comes from Bologna, where mortadella is a local speciality. “This is not a restaurant!” Mr Marini protested. One Christian Democrat senator who announced that he would back Mr Prodi fainted after he was spat on and assaulted in the chamber.

In the streets outside black-shirted members of the “post-Fascist” Alleanza Nazionale, part of Mr Berlusconi’s alliance, careered around in open lorries waving flags and singing the national anthem.

In the light of day, however, power lay not with the streets or the senators but with the Quirinale Palace, where President Napolitano began consultations with all party and parliamentary leaders. This is typically a drawn-out process, but the President promised to wrap up talks by next Tuesday. Mr Prodi, who had governed for 20 months with a wafer-thin majority, remains in office in the meantime.

In theory the President could ask Mr Prodi to reform his coalition. The Prime Minister has said, however, that he had no wish to stand again and that his political career was, in effect, over. “Thank goodness” said his wife, Flavia. “We haven’t had a day to ourselves since Romano went into politics in 1995.”

President Napolitano has made it clear that he is against elections under the present system of proportional representation because they would again produce an array of parties in parliament, prolonging Italy’s record of fragmented and unstable coalitions.

This would leave the third option, a caretaker administration to overhaul the electoral system, which would require broad cross-party support. He could in the end opt for a compromise non-political technocrat such as Mario Draghi, the respected governor of the Bank of Italy; Mario Monti, the former EU Commissioner; or Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, head of Fiat and the employers’ federation Confindustria.

Hi.
I think that only an Italian can understand well the situation. With our Politic system we are obligated to vote for the same faces ALL time!!!
The party , the politician, are the same from '80 to today, and the "new faces" are only a friend of friend of the politician. Is a "Casta", closed to all new idea from the younger Italian.
With this configuration is impossible for Italy to start with a new Era.
I think that the only last hope for Italy and Italian...is the Army.
Regards. (sorry for my english)

Furio, Rome, Italy

This is madness!! 61 changes of government since worl war II? I think is time for people to change instead! Please don't just give up and not vote, it's even worse, some will vote and they wont vote on you favour, so let's think about it.
It's time that Italians vote for some one new and younger than the one we've been voting for decades, new faces should be encourage and given a chance to make a difference. Our government is one of the most complicated for sure, but that dosen't make it the most up to date!
Our government kept going wrong and wrong and i always wondered WHY? It's one of the worlds powerful countries! Why! I mean lets be rational here, it's because of those rotten politicians that are an embarrassment of the worlds civil society, what happened in the senate house was far away from acceptable.
I don't have any nominees in mind, but I'm sure there are a lot of brilliant young Italians waiting for that change to happen in the system going on a loop.

Alexander, London, U.K.

Even the media in Italy is at fault, an example is the fact Newapers over there don't allow readers to post their views on their respective websites. Shameful!!!! Thank God for the Times. I can barely understand most of the comments here (thanks to the Italian educaton system) but seem to understand the frustration is immense.
They'll probably re-elect Berlusconi (the best of a bad bunch) in April. Let's not forget that politians are desperate for power but the truth is that the Euro 1 Trillion debt or more the Government owes is here to stay.

Robert, London, UK

Dear Dante,
I was not disgusted by red flags, as I am not disgusted by black ones (though the black ones remember me of far sadder things), but I have never seen anybody wishing Mr Berlusconi was killed. I was disgusted when the Red Brigades killed Marco Biagi in my own city, but honestly I don't see the link with Prof Prodi or anyone of his fellows - the only person who had anything to asy against Prof Biagi was, as far as I know, the centre-right Home Minister Mr Scajola. I was disgusted both when no-global anarchists sacked Genua and when the police assaulted and imprisoned helpless, pacific protesters on the same night. And I have never seen the "violence of the red mob" anywhere, though I have lived in the most communist of Italian cities. This said, I would love that politicians were better. But I would also love if they were personally elected by Italian voters rather than by their parties in unmovable slates.

Harry, Oxford,

''Hey you, open you eyes, it's not so strange you had to fight with flames.....'' (Madonna, ''Hey You'', 7-7-07). ''
Dedicated to Italian politicians.....

Stern, Milano, Italy

The problem of italy is public debt. 110.....trillion against for example 35.....of england. Whoever goes to rule italy has to face this figures.This means that all our taxes go to feed public costs (millions of employers) and there is almost no money left to invest on the country development, therefore public employers have nothing to do and payed for it .This situation is since 40 years.
Brussels tells us that our economic balance is improving, off course the government spends almost nothing to improve the country.
If we don't resolve this big problem there is very little to do to change italy situation. The enormous public debt has benefited millions of italians. This means that the many people in italy are rich or enough money to live well that is why we cannot change anything in italy.

Mario, rome, italy

I'm sad, really sad and hopeless for my country...Mastella and his party Udeur (the man who have to thanks for the Prodi's fall, the man who is the king of "voltagabbana" because he has changed of coalition many times according to his self-interests) represent what Italy is for real. Mastella is one of our barons (we have barons in the right parties as in the left parties). If we want to have a carrear in Italy, any carrer, we have to ask permission to the baron's parties. What happens in our parliament, it happens also in the little cities: corruption, favours' exchanges, raccommandations. What we call "clientelismo" (to help his "customers") is in politics, in journalism, in public education, in public sanitation, in administration of water resources (especially in Sicily), and in many other fields.
If you don't believe it, please, come in Italy to try to have a carrer without any "little help"! And let me know.
These people are our cancer. WE DO NOT WANT THEM!!

Silvia, Ventimiglia, Italy

I have been living in Italy for the past three years,although Italian politics is one of the most complicated politics in the globe,but Italy deserves all the best because Italians are good hearted people.
I believe that there is real democracy in Italy,because if it is the vice versa Prodi could have find a way to continue,but he preferred to resign giving a rare lesson to politicians.
I wish that the current crisis end very soon so Italy could resume the path to prosperity.

Tarig,Rome

Tarig, Rome, Italy

As I am directly involved in a "dialogue" with a Milanese woman, I just want to point out that the opposition spokesmen (whoever, no difference at all!) have first demonstrated how bad losers they are since the beginning of Prodi's term !! By the way "the age of hatred" you mention, it was just generated by all the politicians who were not able to accept their failure!! No need to write anything so tremendous as you mention, you know there are so many ways to express a sense of violence, arrogance and non respect... My modest impression is that Mr Veltroni has always backed Prodi's government till the end , you know..he is the secretary of new Democratic Party and Mr Prodi is the chairman. I opt for an open and "honest" confrontation where the Italians interests are given priority rather than a "debate" where fight is a common practice. Politics is a public activity and the players are to be responsible before the Italians and the World: they are paid for that!!!

ernestina , milan, italy

Speaking of learning to lose, I'm not sure that Don Silvio has conceded defeat in the 2006 election yet!

You don't need to stand left or right of centre to be able to see the need for reform, both of the system and the behaviour within it.

Matt, Bologna, Italy

After 40 years of corruption under the mis-aptly named Christian Democrats, the governments of 'Don Silvio' Berlusconi in the 90s and early 2000s were very suspect, even by Italian standards. The question is where does Italy go next?

Richard, Bexhill, UK

ernestina, we are a democracy and you need to learn to lose: this is the game of democracy. In Italy we say "bisogna sapere perdere", don't a bad looser. I was happy of the end Prodi's government, like you was happy of the end of Berlusconi's government. Anyway, no centeright writer write a book entitled "Kill Prodi", no centeright people went in the streets shouting of killing communists or former communists. Walter Veltroni wants to end this age of hate like Berlusconi. Are you ready to play the game of democracy or you whis a dictatorship?

stella, milan, Italy

I'm an italian student living in Milano.
I'm very sorry for my english...

The first article in our Constitution is: "Italy is a democratic republic established on work".

"Democratic": what and where is democracy here? Italy is the country where incoherence is the normal way of life. So if there is or there is not democracy doesn't matter...

"Republic": what is "res publica"? It is rather "res privata"!

"Established on work": on work of poor people, while politicians swim in theri money!

If you flip through the Italian Constitution you will find a lot of these in incoherence.

What a shame...

Pasquale Campitiello, Milano,

dear Italians disgusted by a quarrell in Italian Senat for the fall of Prodi tell me, please, if are disguested also for the people going in Italian streets with red flags asking to kill Berlusconi when he was in office. Tell me also if you were so disgusted when the Red Brigades killed Biagi in Bologna or when noglobal movements destroyed Genua at the G8 with Berlusconi premier. Do you feel shame for the violence of the red mob in Italian cities in the last 40 years? Beppe Grillo is a populist and he wish a new terrorism. We Italian defeated red and black terrorism and we'll defeat any violence with democracy and without any foreign help.

dante, florence, Italy

As an Italian citizen I'm actually preoccupied about the politicians frame of mind which has nothing to do with sensible professionals invested with the public power as representatives of the Italians and it is really a shame to see how content the opposition leaders appeared on TV as if they had won a war - against who? the Italians who are the only victims of such failure and keep on paying the politicians salaries: we are definitely mocked two times!!!
Let's hope that there might be a sort of recovery of one's wits: never say never!!!

ernestina , milan, italy

It appears that Mr.Berlusconi has all the good cards in his hand.
The probable outcome of this self-inflicted crisis of the leftist coalition led by Mr.Prodi are fresh elctions in April.

As it is clear from the messages sent by many Italian readers of the Times, many constituents not only are aloof from the political process, but their personal decision is mainly guided by their traditional affiliation or distaste for certain candidates.

In such a situation, I think the new climate of dialogue between Mr.Berlusconi and Mr. Veltroni, the leader of the still untested Democratic party, is a postive sign in favour of reasonableness in the place of trench warfare politics.

Frederick, Milan, Italy

HI everybody
Let' s all hope that Beppe Grillo makes a new political party, I think that he could gets a lot of votes... I know it sounds ridiculous but I don't belive in the political parties anymore left and right they are the same for me....

Stefano, Roma, Italy

It saddens me to see our senaotrs to act like the worst supporters of a football team. It saddens me to see that in the senate of a democracy not every member knows exectaly the meaning of the word responsibility.
I hope that one day the senate gives hospitality only to people who knows truly the meaning of being a representative in a democracy.
I think that this political crisis is the wound that to be look after needs of a new politics, a politics made of responsibility and will to lift up again a new Italy.

Matteo, Perugia, Italy

Matteo Maria Morelli, Perugia, Italy

I am really thinking of going abroad... I am Italian, and I believe Mrs Liz from Faenza is right... it's the people it's not the politics. I am so sad these days, yuo can't imagine it.

Domiga , pordenone, italy

dear Italian friends, have you never seen British MP quarrelling amongst them in tv? have you never seen an American campaign for the US presidence? have you never listened the bad words American politicians tell each other? Italy is a democracy. Do you want a dictatorship or a totalitarian system? You must accept Prodi falls by himself. In Italy there is no chaos at all. Many people is happy because they didn't like Prodi, but they don't go in the streets with making violence like the left-wing during Berlusconi's government. Prodi falls for implosion. IIf you are sdemocratic leftists you must be happy because Water Veltroni has a very good relationship with Berlusconi. If you are still communists and feel nostalgia for totalitarianism don't come back in Italy if you are abroad or go to England and try to make there a Communist revolution. Englad had more than 10 years of Tatcher more than 10 years of Tony Blair. Do you consider England a dictatorship?

dante, florence, italy

Eduardo,

I am a foreigner living in Italy.
Honestly, if you feel that way about your country that is all the reason that you should come back!
Here in Italy, the most famous phase " Ã¨ cosi" (It is like that) when there is something wrong. The italian people only stand up when their interest directly are affected otherwise... who cares.
More people wave the flag and come into the streets for a soccer match than what is good for the country ... is it the politics or the people?

Liz, Faenza, it

Italian politicians are disgusting . I am not,going to vote anymore, and will give my attention only to Italian scientists and artists.

Annamaria, Roma

annamaria longoni, roma, Italy

The electoral system put in place before the last election is anything but "full proportional representation."

Any bloc of parties that forms in advance of the election and then gets a plurality of the votes is guaranteed at least 55% of the seats. Only then is PR used, within the bloc (and, for the other maximum of 45% of seats, among the opposition.)

Matthew, San Diego, California, USA

hi i'm italian youg boy and i want to say that italians are not like their politicians. the horrible show in the senate makes us ridiculous in front of the world. unfortunately italy has unqualified politicians who aren't be able to govern.

giorgio mllaretti, torino, italy

Claudia from Pontypridd (Abruzzo)
Guys, what can we say...here we go again!
I am almost inclined to think that we have the politicians that we deserve. This is why we get psudo-politicians like Berlusconi. If we, the PEOPLE, don't make our voice heard and don't state very clearly how we want to be governed, we will be permanently treated as idiots by other idiots.

claudia, pontypridd, Wales

I'm very happy to see the fall of prodi's government.. but now i'm not sure of what could be better for our country : elections or technical government ???
Who knows....

anyway i hope that the next government would have a bigger majority and we hope in stability !!!!

Massimo Macaluso, Genova, Italy

incredible....you guys are incredible...it's easier to know about italy situation from Times than from italian newspaper!!!
I am from Italy,i am 18 years old,and now the voting time is approaching...but what can we vote for???
As Beppe Grillo says "we have always to decide between ugly and a little less ugly"..is like that Italian Government is kidding us,his electors!!
Now the right party is going to be elected,for sure..but i also now that right-party is going to have tha same majority of votes which had prodi's government....ahaha,incredible!!
and nobody nows about the school reform,which now leave the italian school system in a full chaos...ahaha,and we have the arrogancy to say we are in europe,in the developped world!!!
Politics,don't bother us!!!!we are you electors,who give you over 7000â‚¬ per month,for doing nothin'!!!!!

Alessio, Modena, Italy

i am eduardo and i live i live in london i am very sad about my country that is always in caos politcs, i think that this thing is no good for italy for his immage and for the europe, anyway until my country don't grow up i don't want to come back there!!
Mazzcca Eduardo

eduardo Mazzocca, london, uk