Rory Watson and David Charter
We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
BRUSSELS Every visitor to the European Union would have to provide fingerprints before being allowed to enter, under plans unveiled yesterday to clamp down on illegal immigration.
The move to record the arrival and departure of non-EU citizens and to store the data in a single European database is part of a wider overhaul of border security. It is aimed at the largest single category of illegal migrants: people who remain once their visa or permit has expired.
Franco Frattini, the EU Justice Commissioner, argued that the existence of the electronic register containing a visitor’s personal details and final destination would make it possible to identify overstayers.
The scheme, which must be approved by all 27 EU governments before it can come into force in 2013 as proposed, has been criticised by civil rights groups. They fear that it could lead to a “fortress Europe” mentality against foreigners and to identity theft if the data were lost or stolen.
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Having lived in the US for a while due to work (Texas) and witnessing the outright racism in everyday american life, I hope this and the week dollar, will help keep the 'land of the free' and its minions where they belong. Namely out of Europe. The hypocrisy, lies and crap coming out of the US have done enough damage both globally and locally and the EU should outright close its borders to the US.
As they say, good riddance to bad...
smh, London,
Does it really need another 5 years to implement?
Richard, Bexhill, UK
Amusing to read American friends wanting to stay in their country
if their finger prints are taken. They do not want to know the humiliating treatment meted out to UK citizens visiting their country. Well, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
With the dollar sinking to the floor against the Euro, staying in their country is the best option. After all, less than 50% Americans have passports.
Gary Smith, LONDON,
As a frequent visitor to Europe, I have absolutely no problem with it. I do not wish to ever live there nor will I ever think of it as my home. Western Europe, to me, is all about food, drinks, sightseeing...etc. If ever I will have to leave the good ol US, for any sort of reason, I will stick in this side of the Atlantic anyway....
Clay , New York, NY
Finally!!! Any "alien visitor" to the US has to go through that process in the USA...fingerprints + picture. No one questuions that...so what? The EU( except Britain, Ireland and Cyprus, Romania + Bulgaria) have no longer internal borders and therefore the EU-Schengen area has no other choice. Creating a EU border patrol, a common Immigration policy is something logical.Those who say it goes against individual freedom should think twice. I totally agree with our interior minister for Justice....but, what will Britain do? become a schengen member or continue to be considered as a "foreign" country....within the EU because it seems that any foreign citizen and non EU-schengen citizen will have to go through that process....I bet Sarkozy will push the idea through now France has ratified the Lisbon Treaty....Back into Europe has he says.....that reminds me of Blair.....Britain in the Heart of Europe.....but it seems he didn't mention "when"...
pascal-pierre, Dinan, EU (france)
To Musa:)
Foreigners visiting the EU-schengen area need ONLYa schengen visa..LOL
pascal-pierre, Dinan, EU (france)
To Dave from seattle;
This is what the US gvt has been doing for years...so give me a break....:)))
pascal-pierre, Dinan, EU (france)
Since the 24 countries belonging to the Schengen accord have allowed freedom of movement for their nationals throughout the European Community, there has been an unmistakable rise in crime. The proposed measures are obviously a late reaction to the lessons Europe has drawn from the virtual abolishment of the borders between the member countries whereby all forms of control have become increasingly difficult.
Ray Massart, Hombeek, Belgium
I find it absolutely fascinating that the US has been doing this to non-US visitors for ages yet, when the tables are turned, suddenly it's "their" fingerprints and identity which cannot be divulged or recorded in another country's database. The hypocrisy is overwhealming. Why care so much if you've got nothing to hide? Your every move is recorded on CCTV cameras, airline boarding lists, immigration control etc. I mean, really, is having a fingerprint taken really such a big deal? Why miss out on visiting beautiful places as a result of some misplaced paranoia? Practice what you preach for once.
Talking Sense, SH, UK
incredibly amusing the number of americans who don't know that this is standard procedure to enter the US...clearly this is yet another area where we shouldn't be doing what the americans do and clive is right - the way to stop terrorism is to stop invading their countries in the interests of profit...
have had some fairly poor experiences at US immigration - the classic of all time being when arriving in Boston with my g/f for a weekend away - we were asked about the purpose of the visit, so mentioned we would be doing some shopping - the response from the immigration officer was "don't they have shops in london"
Sean, London, UK
Britain is going to the dogs! Is it going to get any better than this, or just much worse?
Vote with your feet, your wallet and your freedom.
Move to a country with a warmer climate, lower cost of living, lower taxes, and *far* less government intrusion!
I did, and it was the best thing I've ever done.
Guy, Mexico, Honduras, Belize, Central America
"as long as I have got nothing to hide I shouldn't have to worry. "
This is the problem - you may think you have nothing to hide - but your opinion does not count - it is the people who have power.
Just remember, also, that if someone is suspect then all their friends are suspect and all their friends etc, etc. You could be pulled over and deported just because you know somone who the authorities know spent an afternoon with a person with suspected terrorist leanings.
With DBM systems this is easy to do.
John Wood, Hull, UK
Why do all the Americans keep reiterating that this is another reason for them not to come out of their own country? I was under the impression that their knowledge on world geography was so poor they didn't even know where the EU was anyway...
JP, London, UK
All these high-tech measures will make no difference whatsoever to the1000s of illegals who are being smuggled into the EU, day in and day out, in high-speed boats by criminal gangs, of course.
And the same goes to those many other 1000s of people who just choose to trek into the EU through mountain passes, during the night.
The though that a highly corrupt organisation like the EU in its present form, will be allowed to run a database containing the details of millions of people, really terrifies me.
George, London, UK
Excellent, cant wait.
All these people obsessed with the fact they dont want the state to have one little bit of information........please. Grow up and get a grip. I think attitudes like you have are more damaging to this country than having a secure database of visitors.
We need better security and this will go towards it.
Andrew, London,
this time next week all this will be forgotten, just like all the other headline g rabbing "iniatives" Nulab is so fond of.
Rod, kettering,
This is a joke, just like the government vetting and employing illegal immigrants to be security guards, many of which ended up guarding our airports. The UK cannot get its existing finger printing devices, that people have volunteered to use to speed up entry, to work . Its a lot easier to pass a law and inconvenience the entire travelling public than it is to enact reasonable legislation that preserves freedom and increases security. Too bad for us that our leaders don't even seem to be trying.
John Thompson, Reading, Berkshire
Will they have a single EU visa for non-EU emigrants or will I still que up for visa each time I want to visit an EU country from within the EU? If that's not the case then I'd rather give my fingerprints to say the UK/ ROI when visitin rather than to an EU database when I'll not even visit all the countries in the EU. If they want to go the American way then they should know, USA has only one visa for all the states.
musa, Dublin, Dublin
Just one step closer to big brother. This will just encourage illegal entries to europe. And then what.
Well the good citizen will see the police knocking on their door after fingerprint match, for robbery, murder etc. and it will take them years for them to clear their name.
Next officially will be sampling dna from travellers and a revival of eugenics.
Sci-fi, not any more.
lauren, london, uk
It seems funny that several of the americans posting a comment don't want to come to europe anymore if their fingerprints are taken but it is ok for us to be treated like criminals every time we enter the US. I have had my fingerprints taken several times at US immigartions and don't see the problem, as long as I have got nothing to hide I shouldn't have to worry. What annoys me a lot more is how unfriendly and unwelcoming some of the immegrations officers are.
Astrid, Edinburgh,
Passports can be forged, finger prints cannot.
Alan, Chelmsford, UK
Non EU citizens have already been fingerprinted in their home countries before going to UK in a student permit.
Angelina, Toulouse, France
So our American readers think that what is good for the USA is not good for Europe. This makes a change, normally everything they do is also good for us. However, as is the normal course of events, they will use it as an excuse not to travel. If only they realised that they can get a virus from the internet, perhaps they'd stop reading the timesonline and making facetious comments on subjects about which they obviously know nothing.
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
"Holding your finger on a piece of glass for a couple seconds is a extremely small price to pay, in order to help stop Islamic Terrorists.....Lee, Southern California, USA"
Personally, I'd prefer that our armed forces stopped invading Muslim countries.
Even smaller price to pay...and might actually make a difference.
Clive, Surrey,
How will this stop Islamist - or any other sort of - terrorists?
Oh, I see, we ask all terrorists to send in their fingerprints so they can be picked up at the border. Can't help feeling there's a flaw in this plan somewhere...
Tony Jones, Grantham, Lincs
I'm shocked at the ignorance of most the americans who have commented on this Article. Fingerprinting at the point of entry was 'almost pioneered' by the Americans. Surley you guys must have noticed the long queues at the immigration desks for non-US citizens? Do you think we were hanging about on the queues for a laugh?
What's good for the goose, is also good for the gander.
Bored at work, Aberdeen, Scotland
I cannot understand why the EU makes a decision like this...Don't you rememeber that Latin America welcome million of Spanish and Italian of immingrants. (not to mention the rest of the nations).
This is totally unfair. It is an act of discrimination.
Sebastian Ferrero, Cordoba, Argentina
Yes, this is pretty much a tit-4-tat. I have a friend from Ireland who also said he would no longer visit the US because they started this. He looked at me one day and said; âDo I look like a terrorist?â He is bald, short and pale whiteâ¦lolâ¦.
It is funny how so many Americans did not realize we do this to other countries.
As an American living in Europe and traveling often, I can tell you it is much easier for me to get into Europe than America. That is right, I have an American passport and STILL get into (and around) Europe easier than America.
I cannot say that I like that the EU is doing it, but I can understand. "We" have been hassling foreigners coming into our country for years.
I do wonder what a passport is for anyways�
Paul, Frankfurt, Germany
RDM, you're welcome to stick in Rockville polishing your red neck
dfgd, ythht,
finally our fantastic EU had a VERY inteligent idea!!!
Fabio, rome, italy
How is it any different from using a passport?
Yorgi Kosmopolitas, Planet, Earth
I spent almost 2 hours queuing at Newark airport to be fingerprinted before I could enter the US. A week later I was pulled over in Vermont for driving 10 mph above the speed limit. Upon seeing my British driving licence, the policeman called up homeland security and was told there was no record of me entering the country! So much for the fingerprint system.
Calista, cambridge,
I thought the devalued dollar was already working to keep Americans out of Europe.
FS, Stavanger, Norway,
Geez, you people are paranoid. It's all done electronically by placing your finger on a special pad. Finished before you know it. So what? To think some won't go to London, Paris, Rome or even Tallinn now because of this is ridiculous.
Charles, USA,
Yes, as you said, chrysd of Lexington, that criminals are fingerprinted and this doesn`t send the right message to tourists. As tourists to the US are fingerprinted, what does that say for your country?
margie, victoria, australia
At a minimum people from violent countries and comparatively very poor countries should be fingerprinted.
But, so as not to discriminate against Africans or a certain NATO ally, I believe fingerprinting everyone is in order, citizen, visitor, or would-be immigrant.
The main hazard of having your fingerprints in the current databases is that you might turn up as the only match based on a match to a partial fingerprint.
If everyone was fingerprinted, then everyone that was a partial match would turn up. The low value of the partial match would be apparent. The main hazard would be eliminated.
As for the idea that only criminals are fingerprinted, actually accused are fingerprinted, as are members of the police and most armed forces.
Universal fingerprinting and DNA databases are the way of the future.
Anne H, Manitoba, Canada
Holding your finger on a piece of glass for a couple seconds is a extremely small price to pay, in order to help stop Islamic Terrorists.
Lee, Southern California, USA
I'm from the US and I say go for it, it just makes sense. It will cost alot though.
Josh, Houston,
This is just about the only sensible idea ever to have come out of the EU. Can we start tomorrow?
Michael Farquharson, Aberdeen , UK
It is my finger, and my fingerprints. I will not be going to Europe if this passes. EVER.
Dave, Seattle, USA
This is a very sensible idea and one that addresses a serious problem. And to say that maintaining one's sovreignty amounts to becoming a "fortress" is certainly a bit much (but then a lot of these groups have no love for any kind of Western sovreignty anyway).
I've spent about six years in the EU (three each in England & Greece) and I will certainly go there whenever I can; I'm more than willing to add my own prints to their database and want my own country (America) to do the same.
Roderick, Portland, Oregon,
I am reading the comments of people from the US; they are not happy, I can see. However, this whole siege mentality is in the wake of what the Bush administration has done in the US. Do USA citizens realise how difficult it is for Europeans to get into the US these days?
Anthony Reid, Stockport, UK
Just went into Japan (Kansai airport), they now do it too... No big deal, you put your index finger on a scanner for a second or two......
KM, Hartford, CT
Actually didnt the EU throw a fit when the US did this (first)
andy, Philly, USA
The US does it already, yes, but that does not mean it is necessarily a good idea. As a US citizen, my concern is the chilling effect it has on legitimate visitors to our country, and that same concern would hold true for the EU.
As a technology professional, my concern is that a government bureaucracy will be in possession of a database of almost inestimable value. Databases can be hacked. Bureaucrats can be corrupted. As tech security people would say, the attack vectors on such a system are almost endless.
Bureaucracy will be the death of us all.
Rob Munn, San Diego, US/California
Criminals are fingerprinted. This doesn't send the right message to tourists. And as an American citizen I have no desire to illegally immigrate to Europe, Thanks.
chrysd, Lexington,
Well, I guess I won't be visiting the EU anymore. I'll travel my own country...there's plenty to see here. This entire fingerprint / Big Brother idea is a waste! Both sides of the Atlantic just need to stop it. I'm not afraid of people. For every nut that comes over, there's thousands of good, honest people. I can stand a nut or two every so often to be and live free.
DB, Atlanta,
My wife and I try to visit a different place in Europe every year or so. I guess we will start exploring more of the US for vacation if this goes through. Doesn't the EU realize that they may be able to identify illegals but they still have to find them once they are in country?
JB, Sierra Vista, AZ USA
Do you say "Ummm" to sound more intelligent, or just to be condescending?
Rob, Knoxville, TN
The US has been taking pictures and fingerprints of any non-US citizen that enters the country for over 4 years
MR, San Diego,
Ummm, the US does this too.
PH, EB, MK
Now, why didn't we in the US think of that?
Dayahka, Aberdeen, WA
Oh well, just another reason for me to not travel outside of my own country.
RDM, Rockville, MD USA