John Follain
Take a trip to New York and see the city from the air
The new mayor of Rome, a former neo-fascist, has praised Benito Mussolini as an inspired architect who modernised Italy.
The election of Gianni Alemanno, 50, has prompted fears of a fascist revival because he once led the neo-fascist Italian Social Movement (MSI). His arrival at the city hall was celebrated by a crowd giving the fascist salute and chanting, “Duce! Duce!” – the title used by Mussolini, who ruled Italy between 1922-43.
Speaking to The Sunday Times in his office overlooking the Forum, Alemanno was at pains to deny in his first interview with a foreign newspaper that he was “a fascist or an ex-fascist or a postfascist”.
A wiry, energetic figure, he explained: “The left describes me as a bogeyman, a nasty Blackshirt, but that’s a complete lie.
“People calling me ‘Duce’ makes me laugh. I’m not at all fascist and I think that today the word belongs to the history books. I’ve grown to hate all forms of totalitarianism, whether of the left or of the right.
“I’ve never described myself as fascist, even when I was young, but in the 1970s and 1980s we on the right believed fascism was substantially positive. Now we realise it was totalitarian and generally negative, it has to be condemned.”
Asked whether he still sees anything positive in the fascist legacy, he replied: “What’s historically positive is the process of modernisation – fascism was fundamental to modernising Italy. The regime reclaimed much marshland; it set up the country’s infrastructure.” Mussolini drained the malaria-infested swamps, allowing peasants to work the land.
Alemanno praised a district south of Rome, which Mussolini built as a symbol of fascism, calling it an example of “architecture that was part of the modernisation process and gave importance to Italy’s cultural identity”. The EUR district’s monumental style, built for an international exhibition that was abandoned because of the war, was modelled on that of ancient Rome.
Alemanno spoke as Silvio Berlusconi, 71, the media tycoon, was sworn in for a third term as prime minister, heading one of Italy’s most conservative governments since the second world war. Among them is Mara Carfagna, 32, a former television showgirl, who is equal opportunities minister and one four new women ministers.
An officer’s son, Alemanno became politically involved at 13 and later fought street battles with left-wing opponents. He was arrested in 1981 for beating up a student with four other neo-fascists wielding baseball bats; in 1982 for throwing a Molotov cocktail at the Soviet embassy; and in 1989 for trying to block the motorcade of the first President George Bush. Each time he was acquitted.
During the interview, Alemanno came closer than before to saying he was guilty of all three incidents. At first he said they were marginal and he had been acquitted. Questioned about whether he regretted the episodes, however, he answered: “Of course if I had to go through those years again I wouldn’t do those things again, despite the fact there was a civil war going on at the time.”
He pointed to a scar on his upper lip. “One guy threw a punch and split my lip. But far more serious than this scar is the fact that many activist friends of mine were killed by left-wing activists.”
Alemanno went on to become part of the conservative National Alliance party’s most right-wing faction. An MP for 14 years, he served as agriculture minister during Berlusconi’s last term of office without attracting controversy. However, his campaign against Franco Rutelli, the centre-left former mayor, with its emphasis on crime and immigration, prompted accusations that he was playing the race card.
“I realise people may think I’m being harsh, but in Rome we’re living through an emergency; we have to regain total control of the territory,” he said.
“In the south of Italy the problem is the mafia. In Rome the problem is immigration: there’s a large group of desperate people who survive in dodgy ways.”
He wants to expel 20,000 foreign criminals. “We have to put these people on planes home but we need the okay from countries such as Romania, so we’re going to work on that,” he said.
As the interview ended, Alemanno made one last attempt to rid himself of the label that has stuck to him for years: “It would be impossible for a fascist to be elected mayor of Rome. Rome is a city that has solid democratic roots and that respects everyone. The Romans are not mad and neither am I.”
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>I don' t know whether Alemanno is still a fascist at heart,
> but his supporters certainly are!
And you may have noticed that Mr Berslusconi himself was often wearing black or bluish black shirts during his recent electoral campaign. Clearly a way to send a message to electors.
mario, Milan,
I live in Italy and ask people openly who they vote for. Until now I found just one man who was prepared to admit he was a great fan of berlusconi. Everywhere everyone just called him a imbecile, I couldn't understand it. That's started to change now. Italians love to suffer.
Bert, Osilo, Italy
Oh another thing to this Ronan guy: Alemanno was NOT part of Forza Italia but Alleanza Nazionale and both parties are now the Popolo delle Libertà. All this only proves your utter ignorance
Cristina Gastaldo, Como,
Ferrara was an important city for De Chirico and his brother Alberto Savinio ( nickname). De Chirico was linked with Ferrara's Jews and it's normal his reaction. The Italian Jews were completely integrated in Italian political life, and also many fascists were against the 38's laws.
elisabetta, milan, italy
To Ronan, who are you to make such assertions on Forza Italia. What facts do you have on hand to back it up? You should be a bit more informed before making such a serious accusation to a huge political movement, made of millions of people. You are insulting Italians. Show some respect to people.
Cristina Gastaldo, Como,
Saying that Forza Italia is the political wing of the mafia, is a mere defamation. The so-called "41 bis" article - which provides rigorous imprisonment for the most dangerous members of the mafia - was stated as permanent in the Italian legislation, just during the Berlusconi government.
Gaetano De Marco, Naples, Italy
Alemanno says the problem of the mafia is in the south. Then why on earth did he enter parliament with Forza Italia, the political wing of the mafia in italy? Sandro Bondi minister for culture. God help Italy. Renato Schifani, speaker of the senate. again, the future is bleak.
Ronan, Dublin, Ireland
@Elisabetta from Milan: Giorgio De Chirico was never a fascist. He even left Italy in disgust after Mussolini's antisemitic "race laws".
Please don't insult the memory of one of Italy's greatest artists ever.
Andrea, Verona, Italy
The winners of any war demonize the defeateds, but the same McNamara said the Allies won because were more criminals. Germany was occupied and demonized because is a strong nation. Why nobody made a Nuremberg trial for Hiroshima? Why American war criminals can be judged only by US judges?
Antonio, Siena, italy
What Italian left wingers have difficulty in accepting is the concept of alternation: losing democratic elections necessarily means that the winner is a Fascist.
Andrew, NYC,
To Radu Alexander: the real problem is the Schengen Treat for which there is no check at European borders. Italy is not an isle in the Atlantic and is very easy to come to Italy from everywhere. Italian problems with criminal immigrants are also Europeans.
luciano, brindisi, italy
To Bruno Tiozzo: Imagine Roland Koch saying "Hitler modernised Germany because of the motorways." He had to resign within days.
Marianne, Gera, Germany
I come from a country that exported not only honest hard working ppl but also a lot of our thiefs and criminals have left the country in search of a richer loot -- it is that simple. But that's not an immigration issue it's a law enforcement issue and weakness on part of the italian police.
Radu Alexandru, Bucharest, Romania
owner of the would-be channel Europa 7 back in 1999. But Rete 4 never ceased its broadcasting up till now and god knows if it will. And nobody says nothing even after the Court of Justice of the European Union stated it should have stopped, on January 31st this year.
Maurizio, Milan, Italy
And as premier of the government he will only have the power to keep in line the three state channels other than his own three national channels -- one of which, Rete 4, broadcasts without a license because the frequency of transmission was regularly acquired by Francesco Di Stefano
Maurizio, Milan, Italy
Gaetano everybody sees you're right, Berlusconi doesn't control all TV information, he just have a bit too much control than any other modern western democracy could tolerate, that's all...nothing to bother about.
Maurizio, Milan, Italy
Fascism has rendered a service to the entire world? Well why not ask to those they seen the fascism, and those they seen the bombs destroing the own property because of fascism? what the facism gave to Italy? dead! poverty! devastation and leave to another country without choise!
Begogna, Biella, Italy
That is what Churchill has stated after his visit in Italy in the 1927: "What a man! I have lost my heart. Fascism has rendered a service to the entire world. If I were Italian, I am sure I would have been with you entirely from the beginning of your victorious struggle against the Leninism".
Luca Zanotti Fragonara, Cardiff, UK
Mussolini just got what he deserved, the way he deserved it.
Giorgio, Ancona, Italia
Claudia, Mussolini was not responsable for WW2: the responsable were Hitler and Churchill. Read Kershaw's book, please. Kershaw is a British historian.
margherita, pescia, italy
It isn't true that Berlusconi controls all Tv information, and control of Tv doesn't mean control of public opinion anyway. When Berlusconi lost elections twice, where his control of public opinion was? People use their head, and left-wingers don't accept they are currently in a minority in Italy.
Gaetano De Marco, Naples, Italy
Even if, as Mr Alemanno claims, Mussolini and fascism did modernise Italy, can we forget that the regime was responsible for getting Italy in WW II, abolishing civil rights and free press, persecuting opponents and helping the extermination of Jews? This is a ridiculous and insulting claim !
Claudia, Brussels, Belgium
Mussolini was charismatic even in his death, as Bobbio said. If Churchill orderd the Communists to kill him, he made a great mistake. The Mussolini body hanged by feet is unforgettable also for Italians like me, born in the 60s. You can defeat a nation, not to kill a people.
roberto, bologna, italy
There is a dangerous resurgence (it never really went away) of fascism and neo-nazism in Italy at present. The latest episode in Verona (where a young man was beaten up and killed by a group of Far-Right thugs) is emblematic.
Lindsay, Milan, Italy
Mussolini did not modernise Italy, quite the reverse. Fascist Italy was bogged down in corporativism and women didn't get the vote until after the War. Making the trains run on time does not justify repression and loss of freedom of speech.
Lindsay, Milan, Italy
SAVE US !!!! Italy is going to self collapse.
Stefano, Rome, Italy
Veltroni may have been ( he denies it) Communist when young but he was an excellent, caring mayor. He also personally organised planes to take volunteers to Africa, gave his pension as europarlamentarian to charity, visited favelas in S. America etc. Italy should have more "communists" like that!
Lindsay, Milan, Italy
Alemanno's interview perfecly shows the nostalgic ideas of right-wing in Italy. Their goals are: trample on true opposition (which Veltroni's Democratic Party doesn't represent), shut up the rare unconvenient free journalists (for ex: Marco Travaglio and Michele Santoro as they did with Enzo Biagi)
Michele, Milano,
control 100% of information on tv and -as a consequence- of public opinion. Berlusconi has huge economic, social and political powers in his hands: it's next announced step is the control of judicial system by the Government. This isn't democracy: this is the post-modern fascism, lead by media.
Michele, Milano,
To Bimba. In Italy there is such a democratic emergency, that Berlusconi, who in your opinion is another Mussolini, lost two elections out of five: really a tyrant!
And about the Celtic Cross necklace that Alemanno wears, it's just a memento of a friend of his, killed by leftists at the age of 20.
Gaetano De Marco, Naples, Italy
Mussolini lost the war and was killed without any process by the Communists. The Communists never won political elections for their violence against the Italians defeated. Italy lost, not only the Fascists. Alemanno's victory is the victory of the defeat Italy. I never was Fascist, but viva il Duce!
roberto, bologna, italy
The title of the article doesn't correspond to what Alemanno actually says. His views are not more extreme than mainstream European centre-right politicians such as Roland Koch in Germany or Sarkozy in France. It should be mentioned his predecessor as mayor of Rme, Veltroni, is a former communist.
Bruno Tiozzo, Rome, Italy
Mr. Alemanno says that Mussolini modernised Italy, and this is a quite obvious fact: in 20 years a government has to be able to do something good, like reduce swamps and to build new railways. But fascism is always a system that reduced rights and civil liberties. Alemanno should remember it.
piero graglia, Pistoia, Italy
Elisabetta, when interviewed, Alemanno speaks of two aspects of modernisation: economic/infrastructural and architectural. While I don't deny that Mussolini oversaw some impressive construction projects, his ego-fuelled projects were a detriment to Italy's then-largely agricultural economy.
Fred Lafaire, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
History repeats itself
We just need a recession
And all we need now is one like this in Germany
Nicholas Iles, Oswestry, Shropshire
You would have had ask him to show you the Celtic Cross necklace that he wears still now...Italy is a Country in a deep democratic emergency, in which everything is an only one property.
From 15 years Berlusconi's media are influencing the population's mind, and these are the results.
Bimba, Rome, Italy
I don' t know whether Alemanno is still a fascist at heart, but his supporters certainly are! This is quite clear from photographs showing his jubilant supporters giving the fascist salute on the night of his election, published in every Italian newspaper.
LuisaHynd, Rome, Italy
To Fred Lafaire, Amsterdam--Fascism modernized Italy. There is a lot of book on this subject: from De Felice to Victoria De Grazia. Fascist architecture was modern, rationalizing, very quoted by many western books. Like painting. Do you know De Chirico or Futurism?
elisabetta, milan, italy
Again and again with neo-fascists but why not a word for the post-comunists such as Veltroni, D'Alema and others who when young were fighting in the streets wih the neo-fascists ?
And it has also to be considered that comunism is still existing while fascism has disappeared since 63 years.
Roberto Castellano, Salsomaggiore, Italy
Referring to his politically violent youth, you quote Mr Alemanno as saying: "there was a civil war going on at the time . many activist friends of mine were killed by left-wing activists. This is only partially true. Italian left-wing activists did not turn violent until the end of 1968, when they first became inspired by the French May riots. Neo-fascist youth movements had a much older tradition of (admittedly slightly milder) violence, which they had used since at least the Fifties against all their opponents, and not just the left-wing ones. Thus in 1953, when I was only 14, I was physically attacked by them as I attempted to distribute leaflets of the European Federalist Movement at my school's exit. Neo-fascist violence was never just self-defence, as Mr Alemanno would seem to suggest, and I for one would like his full apologies for his own part in it.
Mario Ferretti, L'Aquila, Italy
Mussolini's politically-motivated economic policies condemend Italy to years of economic hardship. If anything, Italy modernised despite Mussolini's decrees. As for Rome's architecture, it was saddled with hidden costs, and is not without similarities to the grand statist projects Pyonyang.
Fred Lafaire, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
The raise of the right is the fault of stupid liberal politicians who allow unfettered immigration which ferments unrest. this is only the beginning and should be noted.
D case, Newquay,