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The annulment of a young Muslim couple’s marriage because the bride was not a virgin has caused anger in France, prompting President Sarkozy’s party to call for a change in the law.
The decision by a court in Lille was condemned by the Government, media, feminists and civil rights organisations after it was reported in a legal journal on Thursday. Patrick Devedjian, leader of the ruling Union for a Popular Movement, said it was unacceptable that the law could be used for religious reasons to repudiate a bride. It must be modified “to put an end to this extremely disturbing situation”, he said.
The case, which had previously gone unreported, involved an engineer in his 30s, named as Mr X, who married Ms Y, a student nurse in her 20s, in 2006. The wedding night party was still under way at the family’s home in Roubaix when the groom came down from the bedroom complaining that his bride was not a virgin. He could not display the blood-stained sheet that is traditionally exhibited as proof of the bride’s “purity”.
Mr X went to court the following morning and was granted a annulment on the grounds that his bride had deceived him on “one of the essential elements” of the marriage. In disgrace with both families, she acknowledged that she had led her groom to believe that she was a virgin when she had already had sexual intercourse. She did not oppose the annulment.
Critics ran out of superlatives to condemn what they depicted as a dangerous aberration. Valérie Létard, Minister for Women’s Rights, said that she was “shocked to see that today in France the civil law can be used to diminish the status of women”.
Elisabeth Badinter, a philosopher and pioneer of women’s legal rights, said that she felt shame for the French justice system. “The sexuality of women in France is a private and free matter,” she said. “The annulment will just serve to send young Muslim girls running to hospitals to have their hymens restored.”
Although officially discouraged, the 30-minute operation is in increasing demand from Muslim women who fear the consequences of being unable to prove their virginity on their wedding night. Numerous agencies offer services for surgery trips to north African nations. One is offering a “hymenoplasty trip” to Tunis for €1,250 (£980). Internet sites and blogs are full of would-be brides in fear of the test of “the blood-soaked sheet”.
While ministers fulminated against the Lille decision, a different stand was taken by Rachida Dati, the Justice Minister, who has Moroccan and Tunisian parents. The law had, she said, protected the bride. “Annulling a marriage is a way of protecting the person who perhaps wants to undo a marriage. I think this young girl wanted . . . to separate quite quickly. The law is there to protect vulnerable people,” Ms Dati said.
The annulment was defended by Xavier Labbée, the lawyer who acted for Ms Y. The decision was justified by the bride’s deception, not her sexual history, he argued. “Quite simply it is about a lie,” he said. “Religion did not motivate the decision . . . but it is true that religious convictions played a role.”
Requests for annulments have risen sharply to nearly 2,000 a year in France, but experts could recall no case involving non-virginity.
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It's great to follow your religion and expect a virgin union. I understand that he is unhappy that he was lied to.
Still, all women deserve respect. Announcing that she isn't a virgin to the world IS barbaric. Consider this, he's no longer a virgin. What's going to happen to him? Probably nothing.
Kristina, Davenport, USA
The most worrying thing for me in this, is the fact that not all women bleed when they lose there virginity and i can say that from personal experience. And in such situations,many Virgins can be accused of not being virgin, just because they did not bleed.
Noura, London,
Quite shocking to discover relationships based on lies, but sometimes you can't help it. But marriage is serious; If they loved each other, they should not have got an annulment. It's simple: they did not want to be together. We all lie at some point; and virginity=ridiculous reason to end things.
Win, Patiala, India
Rachida Dati has hit in on the head, albeit with cautious wording. Divorce was probably the woman's easiest way out of an otherwise horrific marriage. Has anyone ever stopped to think what kind of life she would have been forced to lead had the marriage remained intact?
Alex, Munich, Germany
This woman wanted out, I am happy for her, my first time I did not bleed at all. I am still married to the one and only man I have had in my life. I was 22 years old, and did not lack any man followers. But yes many women don't bleed the first time.
L. DeAlves, Woodstock, Canada
I'm an American woman and i truly believe the husband had a legal right to annul the marriage upon the discovery of his wife's lie. She should have disclosed to him, if it were safe to do; but the husband acted responsibly. A marriage based on lies is not a marriage, at all
Gwen, Boston, Massachusetts, Unisted States
I dont see anything wrong in a civilized chaste mans request to marry a chaste woman. This is the different between animals and human. Islam wants chaste to marry chaste let it be man or woman and islam is for human beings not for animals.
mohamed, dubai, UAE
Thanks Deena. The Way is in full agreement with Islam on this right of a betrothed husband OR wife, and in disagreement with Christianity. This is strange, because children of The Way believe that the Jesus who was born of a virgin 2000 years ago is the Messiah and Son of God like the Christians do.
Daniel, Idaho Falls, USA
so what everyone lies about their past when it comes to sex. but obviously she should've told him. it has nothing to do with being a muslim, its a marriage based on lies.
nesseem, cairo, egypt
Its nothing to do with the actual virginity but the lie. There needs to be truth on both parts so the individuals can make their own choice about if they want to spend the rest of their lives together. starting this commitment with such a lie it is only doomed for disaster
alf, dubai,
So I love how some people are so ignorant about Islam. However, as a Muslim woman, I have the right to get a divorce from my man if I found him a non- virgin. He also has the right to have a virgin wife. So stop it with the whole women's right gospel, b/c we do have our rights in our religion.
Deena, New York City, USA
Also, I would rather save myself for a special person,then fall for some jerk who isn't worth it. That clearly indicates that I respect myself, not that I am "shackled" and "chained" by my religion. Give us a break folks.Jews make a fuss about virginity and so do conservatives.Seriously, chill.
Deena, New York City, USA
Has anyone considered the fact that a hymen may break for a variety of reasons, not just sexual activity? And for men to demand a bloody sheet is just heinous! What proof do women have that the men are virgins? HUH?!? These people disgust me! Demanding a bloody sheet is CLEAR oppression of women.
LR, Austin, USA
It's not just Muslims who recognize this custom. The children of The Way also do. I've never heard it happen though, because children of The Way believe that fornicators go into hellfire unless they repent to God, each other, both fathers, and if applicable, each person who betroths a fornicator.
Daniel, Idaho Falls, USA
I hope my husband hides lots of things from me, I'd hate to know what men really do when they are bachelors before they are married. And what a loser, to turn away a non-virgin, too bad for him. A nurse in the bedroom is a lot more fun than a virgin in the bedroom.
Cherie, San Francisco,
I'm surprised no one has considered that this may have been an arranged marriage. If so, perhaps the young woman felt she had to lie sincew the marriage was not ewithin her control.
sandy, connecticut, usa
Firstly, not every virgin bleeds when they lose their virginity and secondly, what kind of archaic dinosaur is this judge that he would grant a divorce on these grounds? Surely anyone with any brains can see the reason this 'man' wanted the divorce was for the shame element for his poor ex-wife.
kim, London,
I wonder how many women can now get their marriages annulled on the premise that their groom promised to love, honour and obey but he in fact turned out to be a double crossing, adulterer and far from being a man, was in fact as weak as a weed!
kim, London,
A marriage founded on a lie isn't a marriage. It's a breach of contract and should be ended before it's even begun. Religion, or even faith, doesn't enter into it. Virginity can be lost and forgiven. Trust, in a marriage, can't. Once gone, the marriage is a sham.
KR, Stockport,
Was the husband a virgin...or does that not matter?
Phil, Preston,
Stephanie in Paris:
"This ruling makes virginity an essential quality of women"
It does not *make* it - it already *is* so in the eyes of that man. Each person has his/her own personal requirements that he/she looks for in a partner, and we should not be judgemental about it.
Valentin D, Paris, France
The problem is not that she was not a virgin. It is not even that she lied. The problem is that by French law, a wedding can be annulled when there is error or deceipt on an ESSENTIAL QUALITY of a person. This ruling makes virginity an essential quality of women. This is the reason of the scandal.
Stephanie, Paris, France
I wonder whether he even had to state whether he was virgin or not. Did they have that so called 'straight talk' or was she too scared to admit that she had done somehting which many many Muslim men do before marriage with absolutely no consequences at all
My concern is what happens to her now..
Jellio, Birmingham, UK
She decived her husband about somthing he felt strongly about, who would want to start a marriage on them grounds!
If you married someone and found out there were lieing on your first day of marriage, wud u?
If she was willing to lie about that, then she is willing to lie about anything!
Andy, England, UK,
While I think the idea of viginity and purity is an archaic belief based on days when women were property, I can understand the judgement in this case. As they said, it wasn't about whether she was a virgin or not, it was that she had lied about it to her prospective husband.
Hui Qi, Jinan, China
A question for the feminists and racists.
Your partner says that they share your bigoted beliefs and you agree to marry them.
Then on your wedding day you find that in fact they believe in looking at an issue on its merits, rather than through the eyes of prejudice.
Would you want an annulment?
Dave, Sheffield, England
Lying about your sexual history is disgraceful. Bearing in mind that abstinence is the only 100% failsafe way to guard against potentially fatal STDs, every bride OR groom has the right to make an informed decision about what risks they want to take.
Gemma, Leighton Buzzard, UK
What I beg to wonder is whether the Husband himself was a virgin. I also am curious as to when and at what point in any relationship are you supposed to reveal your deepest and darkest. If you tell the truth he could walk or marry you and judge you for it forever or not marry you and tell the world!
Jennifer Choudhury, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
I am American, I am 24 year old virgin and proud of it. I know it will be almost impossible to find a virgin bride when I am ready, but that is on top of my list. If she is not virgin I will accept it, but if she lie to me about it. Then it is over and nobody elses business but the husband and wife.
Dan, New York, USA
this has nothing to do with misogyny or virginity. The lady has lied to her husband. in islam you don't have to be a virgin to marry someone. But you should be truthful and honest with your partner.
She failed that test. So please everyone spare us the howling fake outrage
yusuf, sheffield, U.K
wow lots of comments here from the usa. take away muslim from the title then there wont be any
j thomas, ldn, uk
I know this is France but here alot of women are as bad as men in that they use their virginity like toys, it's funny when casual sex is so freely available and offered that people, particularly women frown upon prostitution . As a 25 year old I hate this generation, its culture and society
David, Manchester, England
If it was a semi arranged marriage she probably did not spend enough time with him to be able to tell him the truth.....
ruby cooper, nice, france
Why are ppl blaming archaic faiths for this? Surely if a non-faith person divorced like this there would be no issue at all? Celebrity marriages are often shorter for less honorable reasons than a lie about virginity! Society doesn't understand the honour of virginity anymore!
Phil, Guildford,
great... Another hot seller.. i wonder if this news would have got any hits.. if the word "Muslim" is removed.
Brian Davis, edmond, OK, USA
I don't think people are offended that the marriage ended because of a lie, but because the marriage was consumated first, and then because there was no mess , the bride was confronted. Up to that point, everything was okay. Blood proof creates deception and can be done, easily. Research first.
beverly, anderson, US
Not to generalize but in Med-school i knew a few Muslim guys who would sleep around with random women, party, and live-it up. However, they always said that when it was time for them to get married they would find a virgin Muslim girl and nothing else was acceptable. Hypocrisy!!
RB, Huntington, USA
Maybe i'm missing the point, but so what? Deception is something to be taken seriously, not paved over with an excuse for "sexual independence". Even the missus agrees with this ruling, so what say does anyone else have?
Logan, Pinellas Park, United States
There is an oxymoron, muslim marriage based on trust and honesty. More like male domination over the submissive female. Lots of trust and honesty in these relationships.
Phximam, Phoenix, USA
What is all this nasty cynicism about Muslim men? My Muslim son is twenty-two and a virgin. My husband was a virgin until marriage (at 33 years of age). Muslim men don't boast about their virginity because slanderers and gossips (like many on this board) take it as an opportunity to humiliate them.
RW, London,
I am lothe to defend any of the many barbaric practices of Islam but the woman did lie to her partner. Any marriage must be built on trust and honesty. She should have been truethfull with him and if he could not handle a mature, normal, modern woman that she was better off rid of him.
Infidel, Boston,
Seduction , love and marriage are fundamentaly based on lies . When a girl puts on make-up , taints her hair , shaves her legs , she lies on her personnal physical appearance . Same thing when a man go to a fitness club or buy an expensive car to increase his chances to seduce , he too lies !
docdory, Rouenj, France
This is simply back to thousand years ago. All bloods and suffers during the great French revolution and after for freedom and secularism are gone. Shame, Shame, Shame.
Farshad, Tehran, Iran
She deceived him. Her virginity was obviously important to him because he waited to have sex with her until his wedding night. I don't agree with many Muslim practices especially when dealing with women rights. However, did deceive him.
Jeff Stroup, Coral Springs, USA
I'm glad the girl is out of it. As far as the religous part of it, anyone could lie like she did no matter what they believe in (not they I am saying I take the Muslim side, i'm sure the fact that it was a lie about not being a virgin was the problem anyway, not just because it was any old lie).
Alex, Pittsburgh, USA
Laws are similar here in the U.S. and they are unlikely to change anytime soon. An annulment can be granted for fraud if one of the parties intentionally deceived the other by lying about or concealing facts that would have made the other party not want to marry them in the first place.
Humboldt, Eureka, CA, USA
A groom preoccupied with examining bed sheets on his wedding night. A true romantic!
This woman was put through a ridiculous set of circumstances, but she's better off without that loser in her life.
John, San Francisco, CA, USA
If this guy was a virgin and the wife led him to believe she was one when she wasn't, then she deceived him. Devorce her for her deception. However, if he was not a virgin he shouldn't have expected to marry a virgin and he has no excuse for anulling the marriage. He wants more than he deserves.
primrose, harvey, USA
The annulment of the marriage was due to the fact that this woman lied rather than she was not a virgin. According to Islamic shari'a even if the husband used this deceiving method, the wife will also have the right to file for divorce.
Lara Billal, Dubai, UAE
The point here was not that the bride had had pre-marital sex, it was that she LIED to the husband.
You don't have to be a virgin to get married in Islam. HOWEVER, having consensual PRE-MARITAL sex is problematic because it says something about the religious character of the man/woman.
SEALBoy, Garland, TX, USA
Most French aren't outraged and don't care. All the guy did was end a marriage he didn't want. That's just normal freedom.
Larry, San Diego, USA
The fact that he had looked at the sheets as proof that she wasn't a virgin should say something. First of all, ewww, no one wants to look at the sheets after having sex and two, maybe the both agreed on this before the marriage so they could be married to the people that wanted to be with.
Rebecca, Haughton, USA
@ Kimberley
Things are not as easy for those islamic women as for women in your country. It must be difficult for them to find inslamic men who are open minded enough to accept a non-virgin bride
Abhishek anand, deoghar, India
What about the man's virginity? In Islam the women are responsible for the man's libido. That's why they act like 14 year old boys living a wet dream, they never have to learn self control.
Barbara, Cleveland, USA / Georgia
They will come for you shortly, Britain.
Sam Deakins, Richmond, USA/KY
What about the man's virginity? Isn't that just as "valid" a reason for annulment? Why are women always held to a higher standard of behavior than men are? Even Biblically, women were blamed for men being unable to behave like civilized beings. No wonder I am a pagan!
Patti Tait-Hendrickson, Shelbyville IL, USA
Why would women resort to surgery to lie about their past? Why not simply tell the truth and wind up with a compatible partner for marriage instead? This woman lied about her previous relationship(s) which should be legitimate grounds for divorce/annulment anywhere, not just France or with Muslims.
Kimberly, DC, USA
I was under the impression that advances in medical science, hygene as well as nutrition make it unlikely that even a virgin would start bleeding. Either way, the court should have never allowed this anullment. Next thing you know they will give aquital for honor killings.
Donald Vincent, Wauconda, United States
Marriage should not be entered pretentiously in any culture or religion. The greater travesty is the religious and cultural absence of grace, mercy and forgiveness in such circumstances. What of Islamic women who were molested or raped before marriage? Such expectations destroy women.
Deanna Burns, Des Moines, USA
One of the advantages of marrying a virgin is that she does not wake up groggy one morning and say:
"Good morning Peter...John? Mike?..Oh crap! What's your name again?"
Garth Rex, Glendale Heights, USA
These comments just show that people would prefer to judge and remain ignorant of the Islamic faith than learn about it. People here have said and I repeat, Muslims DO NOT have to be virgins to marry, yet everyone is still repeating that it is Islamic. The issue is one of telling a lie, deception.
Sal, Sheben el kom, Egypt
Pre-marital sex is forbidden in Islam for BOTH men and women. Having said that, this case isn't even about religion and its practices. The wife here lied to her husband to be, and her husband acted accordingly. I don't see the problem in it? They just happen to be a Muslim couple - oh the uproar!
shareena, Vic, Australia
If a woman has to be a virgin before marriage, which I applaud if she is, than why does not the man have to a virgin. If a man can break their marraige vows because of this, can a woman also do the same.
Its best if both are truthful before marriage because they will not be problems.
Frank, Palm Desert, USA
You know, I have heard about the hymens breaking before having sex. So that simply could have been the case. Course it doesn't seem very likely in this case.
Katie, USA,
You have GOT to be kidding me....I bet he wasn't a virgin!! This is so ridiculous.... she is better off without him!!!!
I don't care if she lied. I'm sure there must have been so much pressure put upon her that she felt there was no way around it!! I feel bad for Ms. Y.....
Teri, Orlando, USA
Whether you agree with Muslim custom or not the point IS!!!!
SHE LIED! SHE LIED!! SHE LIED!!! Both MEN as well as women have the right too Honesty from there spouses!!!
If a woman had been lied to you only hear Pour Victim.
She LIED!!!!!
Michael Grant Sanders, Corpus Christi, USA
If a man lies and says he has no children and then you find out he has a child, shouldn't you have the right to divorce that man? Personally, I don't see what he dispute is about. The man, regardless of his religous beliefs, wanted his wife to possess certain qualities, she didn't possess those.
Rasheed , Inglewood, U.S
Dont allow these people to dominate our countries with their archaic customs, they can practise them elsewhere where they come from if they wish.
Z.Mav, Shannon,
Not so long ago, in the uk, it was a matter of pride and morality that a woman was a virgin on her wedding night. It had little to do with religion and more to do with self respect. That self respect and personal pride has sadly gone along with many other moral issues. Civilised progress inBritain?
winstonian, Darlington, uk
this is not true that a woman need a husband signature to get a loan in France...make sense if you are married,bse you can not take a loan that will invole your husband behind his back,(bse of marriage contract),same about joint bank account.French women are better protected in France than in UK.
Marie, London, UK
What stain will prove the man's virginity?
Bibi, Florida, USA
So, was Mr. X a virgin also? And pure?
Never been with a woman, free or paid?
Like so many of the wealthy Arabs who invade the south of Spain and France every summer where the escort pages are
notoriously expanded just for them?
James, Washington, DC, USA
How little people know about islam. They would rather she were forced to remain married only to have her husband kill her for both families honour. Chances are if her family are strict muslims then this poor girl is already under a death sentence. Divorce over a lie is the least of her worries.
Peter Makin, Upper Hutt, New Zealand
I believe it is best when couples arrive at marriage as virgens. But this putting the pressure on, that the women is the only one that has to arrive to the marriage bed a virgen, what about the men? Was that man a virgen. There should be a test for them too, we know not many would pass it.
LOU ANN , SANTIAGO, Chile
Was he a virgin? Let's see now....in his 30's?
James, McDonald,
If Muslim women aren't allowed to have sex until they are married, but the men don't hve to retain their virginity ,prior to marriage with whom do they lose it?
Liz, England
Elizabeth Tudor-Wiliams, Wolverhampton, U.K
what has islam or culture got to do with it? if a man expects and is led to believe his fiancee to be a virgin, it's fair enough to annul the marriage if she isn't.
it's not treating her like a chattel or necessarily hypocritical. it's a bit optimistic, though. and impossible to prove anyway.
jem, london, uk
she lied?...not that there was any pressure to say the she was. The article doesn't say whether the marriage was arranged or not. If we expose the bloody sheets...one can be sure the 'shame' of admitting she wasn't a virgin would have been a family discussion. What century is this?
joan, London,
I spent a fair amoung of time in the fifties wrestling for the virginities of young women, always unsuccessfully. They reminded you of tigresses defending their cubs. Then, as Larkin says, sexual intercourse began, and you couldn't find a virgin for love or money.
Kevin Straw, Leicester,
Normally, the wedding is a common agreement to live together and starting with a lie is not such a good point. However, i still do not understand men who want to marry a virgin because of old traditions. Why is it always women who are concerned about their virginity and not their husband ?
Charlotte, Southern, France
"Dr Ahmed" comes as no surprise. In UAE opening a Buddhist temple is illegal because Buddhism is blasphemy. Yet in Sri Lanka muslims screamed religious freedom when a sound bill designed to stop crap from EVERY religious place of worship blasting your ears first thing in the morning was passed
Sunil, Kandy,
The main point that most people on here seem to have missed, is that being divorced, as opposed to having an annulment, the (ex)wife can walk away with up to a half of her husband's property.
That would be justice.
Interesting to here what the lawyers have to say about this.
Tom, Madrid, Spain
Stop blaming the bride for lying. For all you know, this was a marriage arranged by the parents when both bride and groom were still children. Perhaps if she had defied her parents, she would have been the victim of an "honor killing". This worked out best for all involved.
Debra, Rhode Island, USA
"Virgins or not, women only bleed during intercourse when considerable force is used - and that's called rape."
So a woman saying "Harder, Harder" during intercourse is actually saying "Rape me, rape me?"
He was Islamic, she was a liar. That would have been bad for their offspring, I fear.
Ken, Mineral Point, WI., United States
The couple were both Muslims and the bride deceived him. Deception is not a good way to start any marriage!
WE should not judge this couple. It is a completely private affair and none of anyone else's business.
For once, I find myself on the Muslim's side.
Pedro Tam, London, UK
Lizzie, London .
Absolutely spot on , ruined it with the last line though . Who cares about the husband ?
Nick Dixon, Sutton Coldfield, England
Is this a civil court or a Sharia court? The story is not clear
Ib, Dalston, UK
This is vergin' on the ridiculous!
E J Murray, Kerry, Ireland
You should get what is advertised. She advertised herself as a virgin. If A man promoted himself as being wealthy and then after the marriage he proclaims he is broke, then the woman would seek a divorce. This is another double standard set up by the feminazis.
Mark, Hanover, USA
They should have freedom to conduct their marriage or annulment however they believe. Why does anyone else care?
Let's have respect for each other's freedom's and be done with it.
Lilly, Dublin, Ireland
I think it's OK for this guy to get an annulment ,not on grounds of nonvirginity of the bride but on the grounds that she deceived him. Whether it's important or not that she was a virgin, she should have known it was an importan issue for her husband-to-be yet she chose to lie to him about it.
Mauricio villablanca, Los Angeles, USA
The female in question committed fraud and admitted it. Regardless of the absurdity of the ruling in many people's eyes, the annulment is valid.
Mike Manning, Knoxville, USA
Change the law based on what? simply because some people don't want virginity prized by others? Of course she deceived him on an 'essential element' of marriage. There is nothing wrong or immoral with waiting until marriage for sex. And what's the govt going to do? force people to stay married?
Rocky45, New York, USA
I think ppl dont understand whats happening here. If the girl wasnt a virgin she shouldnt have lied abt it. Both have the right to expect chastity from their spouses, if the groom found out she had lied abt it he can annul the marriage on the grounds of deception.
Tanvir, Birmingham,
It amazes me that women are allowed to get away with about any type of lie. Fact is this woman told her husband to be that she was a virgin, it seems it would be a contractual thing. He obviously would not have married her if she was not a virgin, she knew this and lied to catch a husband.
RonB, Canyon Lake, TX, U.S.A.
For once, I'm not outraged by something to do with Muslims.
She lied to her husband, something that - whether we agree with it or not - was fundamental to his belief in their marriage.
Marriages are annulled all over the world where other deceptions/realisations are made, and we don't complain.
Helen E., London, United Kingdom
It is not necessary to have had sexual intercourse for the hymen to be ruptured. Sporting activities such as riding horses or doing gym at school can bring this about, as obviously, can using tampons.
We seem to be harking back to the Dark Ages here!
Sally Roberts, London, United Kingdom
Strikes me she is better off out of it ... how archaic can you get
Jurgen, St Maixent sur Vie, France
The reasons behind any deception conducted by the woman concerned are obvious. Discrimination in civilised society is abhorrent and rightly illegal. Sadly, we choose to exclude religion from the equation and thus those imprisoned by religious control systems exist beyond the protection of the law.
David, Rochdale,
Marriage is a partnership between two people in the eyes of the Lord. There must be complete trust and integrity between the two people involved. One thing to remember is that many Muslim marriages are arranged. This didn't seem to be her choice. I would agree she is safer this way.
Lydia, Conway, USA
First, I'm glad the wedding is cancelled so this woman won't have to spend the rest of her life with this man. Second, don't go overboard about islam law, not the true issue here. But if you insist, remember the Pope forbids catholics of birth-control and abortion : how's that for women freedom ?
Jean-Paul, Paris, France
What the article omits to include is whether the groom was also a virgin. Asian cultures (of which I am a part so I speak from first hand experience) are happy for their sons to have sex before marriage as long as they "do the right thing" and marry a virgin. Girls do not enjoy the same luxury.
Kiran, Birmingham,
To be a virgin or non-virgin is one's free choice, to select a virgin or non-virgin as bride is one's free choice as well. But a non-virgin pretend to be a virgin to meet one's choice for marriage is virtually deprive the man's free rights by deceive!
Huang, shanghai, China
In France like other countries marriage is a pact, which is based on obligations and promises, on the one hand and the other. The bride knew that her virginity was a essential quality in the eyes of her husband. In a social view, this decision is damaging. But not based on religion arguments.
Antony, law student, Orleans, France
A difficult one to resolve. If the female party did lie and agrees that she misled her husband then I guess the annulment is reasonable. On the other hand perhaps she has had a lucky escape from an oppressive future and will now marry another person with more liberal views and live a happier life.
Colin, Cambridge, UK
This woman was well rid of this man and his family. Far better for the campaigners to focus on helping those women who are trapped in abusive marriages.
David C, Brussels , Belgium
Primitive. One rule for the man and one for the woman! Pity it happened in French Judges are playing to a Gallery!
George Venables, London, UK
Typical of feminists to take an extreme view and see this as 'oppressing' women. If you can get a divorce/annulment for practically anything else (e.g. simply you realise you don't like the person that much anymore) why shouldn't you get a divorce for the reason that your wife wasn't a virgin?
simon, York, England
the point is she didnt oppose the annulment so i dont see what the problem is. this marraige was based on a set of values, and she lied about it. its not our place to make judgements on those values when they are consenting adults. we may disagree but we are not in a position to interfere
sanjay, london,
1. Is it, or is it not, a requirement of Islam that the woman is a virgin?
2. If it is, she chose Islam, she should have followed it. She didn't.
2a. If French law permits such deception as grounds for divorce, then the decision is valid.
3. If it's not, then this French law does not hold.
So?
Laura Roberts, London, United Kingdom
Good for the judge. The general principle is that all men must honour what they solemnly agree to do. If the woman deceived her groom, on a matter involving a risk that he will find himself father of bastard children or acquire disease, then in justice he should have redress.
Roger, Ipswich,
How is this in any way "old fashioned"? In order for it to be, it would have to be the modern thing to lie to your husband then! If that is what modern marriages are based on then no wonder they don't last.
She lied to something he felt was important, whatever the reason.
Phil, Surrey, UK
A French Virgin? HE was the fool to think their is such a thing. Our societys dont have the hangups Muslim societys have. If we lived in Iran, we would abide by their customs. He is there, so he should marry for LOVE, not be hungup on her virginity. But yes i DO think we sexualize our children young
William, Atlanta, USA
Once again cultural/social practices are erroneously being passed off as Islamic practices.
Islam has recognised the concept of divorce from the outset and thus it is patently wrong to say that it is a Muslim or Islamic requirement that a bride be a virgin.
Adil Choudary, Oxford, UK
The woman lied about something she knew was important to her fiance. That's not the basis of a good marriage, particularly when she must have known the guy was a bit of a nutter. Mistakes having been made, they're both better off out of the situation in the quickest possible time.
Kevin, Dartford, UK
Not all baby girls are born with a hymen, though I think it is quite rare. Pity those born without in certain societies.
gerry, exeter, england
Now hang on a minute.
Debating the insanity "requirement" of a Muslim woman to be a virgin is one debate.
But not this one. She, of her own free will, chose to follow a belief system that demands it with a Muslim wedding. She didn't follow it, she committed fraud.
Her choice: Islam or virginity?
Laura Roberts, London, United Kingdom
It's a bloody nuisance but it's not the end of the world
Ed Corbett, bridgend, wales
So far as I can tell, both parties wanted an immediate annulment and got one.
Why is it anybody else's business?
There are too many people on here who think they have a right to determine how others lead their lives.
Sad.
Jon Leigh, Southern, France
The Islam Bashing Circus is on tour again!
For such a private matter (!) that happened in a foreign country between two consenting adults two years ago to get 47 comments, so far, so early in the morning must really show that Times readers are doing very well otherwise.
Let the good times roll!
Ear Khalil, Manama, Bahrain
The virgin requirement that is imposed by men is also a prime reason why so many young girls in Muslim countries have their genitals mutilated. Their clitoris is chopped off and their vagina sewn up just so that men (their fathers and the husband) can prove the girl is a virgin. This must stop.
Steven, London, UK
I wonder how many of those outraged feminists also support unlimited immigration into Europe. The Western world took centuries to develop it's current advanced (if imperfect) moral code. Massive immigration threatens much of this progress.
rhayat, Portland, USA
Christianity and Islam are about the power of men and this is an example of how it is still used to this effect. Male Pope and celibacy, men demanding woman have no rights to sex before marriage although men have the right! It's all rubbish.
chris, Bagshot, UK
Virgins or not, women only bleed during intercourse when considerable force is used - and that's called rape. A traumatic way to begin marriage. The woman is well out of it. Also, why is virginity in a woman still such a fetish? What about the bloke? The use of force?
Julia Iskandar, London, England
The solution for non-virgins is not a restored hymen, but just a theatrical blood capsule privately inserted in the batrhoom ahead of the goings-on on the marital sheets. Entrepreneurs, here's your market opportunity - huge market guaranteed.
Bart, London,
This 'blood stained sheets' malarchy needs to be addressed. I remember 'my first time' and there was certainly no trace of blood anywhere, this is a myth which needs to be put to rest. Why are these Muslim people so ignorant about these facts and perpetuate such outdated prehistoric beliefs?
wendy, belfast, northern ireland
I would not be surprised as France is still a very sexist society. Women still need their husbands signature if they want a bank loan; once my account was 12 euros overdrawn and the bank manager rang my husband to ask " What was HE going to do about MY spending? " - of course I told him where to go.
wendy, perpignan, france
This case is reminds me of a famous saying by Jesus in the bible when a prostitute was to be stonned. "Yet he who hath done nothing wrong cast the first stone" The result no stone was thrown. No doubt the groom was as pure as the virgin snow.
john.gilmore, Rennes, Paris
Whether or not you agree with the husband's priorities is irrelevant. It was a marriage based on fraud and the ruling correct.She's better off and is free to find a man with similar values as her.
Mary Catherine, Elmhurst, USA
Maybe she deliberately had premarital sex in order to get out of a lifetime married to such a moronic man, and communicated as much to a sympathetic judge? If so then good on her, good on the judge, and good on the obliging other fellow who helped her out! Not so good on the "husband", though.
Lizzie, London,
At 980 Pounds a repair, perhaps Britain should establish an "International Center for Virginal Refreshment and Restoration"...or should that be for "Revirginalization"?.."Hymenal Rejuvenation"? Great new tourist industry..improve the Balance of Payments...probably get a lot of repeat business!!!
Garth Rex, Glendale Heights, USA
When people move to a new country, they should adopt that countries ways and laws. One can practice their religion, but understand that that countries new laws must work for everyone, not just a few. If the new immigrants do not like the new country's ways, move back home.
Robin Castellanos, San Antonio, TX, US
Wait till this circus comes to you,timid Brits, and to us , cocky Yankees. Still, you'll be first.
Felix, Mountain View,
This is approaching our 40th anniversary year. Our memories may be dim on this matter but we don't recall the event was particularly hard on the sheets. Presumably the hymenoplasty insures the bride bleeds with satisfying certainty? How long till virgins have extra surgery to meet the new standards?
Lizbeth, Orillia,
The whole ritual of having to show the bloody sheets is so seventh century; not to mention disgusting.
Yeah, I agree with others, the 'bride' got lucky. To live with a clown like the one she almost ended up with, would have been tough indeed.
Let's hope she meets a wiser man one of these days.
Colin, Kelowna BC, Canada
Marriage is a spiritual union, not just a physical one, this marriage obviously was not intended to ever be a spiritual one, if so, the groom would have kept that information between them. His love for her would have given her that dignity. This story shows the lack of character in the couple.
Kristina, Minneapolis, USA
The ruling is ridiculous- the fact someone told a lie about their personal life, in this case such a small one by secular standards, should not render the marriage invalid. That this should happen in a country that usually respects the rights of the individual, France, is quite shocking.
G Davidson, Kashiwa, Japan
She probably didn't tell him she was a virgin because she was scared of his reaction.
Not a great way to begin a life long relationship. Acane the laws may be; they've probably done her a favour in the long run.
As Jim, Los Angeles says.... "The whole thing is just ridiculous"
Kevin, Salisbury, UK
Dr. Ahmed says "If you spend to buy a product of certain criteria, yet you discovered you were...deceived, would not you return the product and ask for refund..." Doctor, women are not chattel to be bought and sold. Why is it that it is the woman's obligation to be a virgin and not the man's.
Mark, Chicago, USA
As I recall it even Princess Diana had to prove that she was a virgin before her marriage. Apparently a doctor's certificate was sufficient.
Jon Maynard, Lansing MI, USA
Dr Ahmed...surprised that you, a Doctor, can compare a woman to a stereo system bought at a store. Shame.
Jason, Richmond, UK
my question: was HE a virgin????????
just wondering :-)
mark, alicante, spain
The law worked well to protect the woman from being married to a lunatic.
Edward, London,
I knew my wife before she was a virgin.
Scamp, Aberdeenshire,
ISLAM DOES NOT PROHIBIT MARRYING A NON-VIRGIN. it was a personal choice made by the husband...but yes it requires that you remain virgin til marriage...if he was TOLD and believed that she had abided by this but later found it to be a lie then it is common sense that he should be allowed a divorce..
hassan, london, uk
Medieval rubbish with no place in our modern world. When will these people grow up?
Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK
Clash of cultures. Loss of face in bedroom for macho guy and then he compounds it by displaying a pristine sheet downstairs further adding to his humiliation.
I'd prefer an experienced woman but there you go.
watkins, bangkok, thailand
I am opposed to "over-accommodation" of ,and over sensitivity to, religious beliefs. Nevertheless, this is a simple "contract" and "fraud" issue. He expected a virgin, she knew it was important to him, and she simply lied and defrauded him. The judge was right and the feminists are 100% wrong.
David B. Phillips, BROOKLYN, USA
There was a story about an elderly western english women who had paid huge amounts of money to have her virginity stitched back again to pease her husband. This to me suggests that virgin women are also important to western men. So why the hypocrisy?
jayil, london, uk
She lied. Had she lied about having changed her gender, or having kids from an earlier marriage - it would be the same.
It had nothing to do with her being a virgin, per se. Merely that the husband placed import on it.
Its not for us why they married, but the husband was deceived.
End of story.
Elizabeth, Edinburgh,
It seems some people equate shoddy moral and social standards with modernity.
Well nature it seems has way of dealing with it - venereal diseases and teenage pregnancies.
Abu Aslam, London, UK
We're focusing on the wrong thing here; as the justice minister pointed out there can be positives from it.
The problem is the ridiculous mentality of the culture and the groom. And more immediately, the bride for getting herself into the situation. Even in the worst case scenario; just run away?
Jane, Grand Rapids, Michigan
shocking though the case is, it is probably good that she got divorced from the guy. i mean would any woman want to live with such a man? all those who say the ruling is not correct should i think remember this: the reason cited may be reprehensible, but the girl is better off without him
salil, dubai, uae
Western liberals regard marriage as a union of two equals, and it is optional. The fact that the moslem woman is required to be a proven virgin, but the man is not, demonstrates that she is not regarded as an equal in Islam, and this is confirmed in the Koran. The "telling lies" bit is just smoke.
John Weaver, San Javier, Spain
How demeaning is the "tradition" of taking the bride up stairs for a quickie and bringing down the bloody sheet for the wedding part inspection ? And nice to see people making a buck on the reattaching the hymen, what a class act. The whole thing is just ridiculous.
Jim, Los Angeles, CA, USA
This is degrading to women everywhere, the law of Western European nations should not allow this simply because of the beliefs of minority groups. And anyone with half a brain knows a hymen can be broken in other ways than sex so blood is not always present.
Claire , London, UK
Dr Ahmed...a woman is not a product she is a human being. Please enter into the 21st century and realise human beings are not for sale.
Claire , London, UK
No wonder western society has difficulties accepting the Islamic faith.
John, London, United Kingdom
I agree with the sentiment that Islamic belief should have no influence in an advanced legal system. But it does seem that the issue in this case is a general one - that of deception.
Gary, Lindale, Georgia, USA
To Dr Ahmed, is that how you see women?
Robert, Dublin, Ireland
Ahmed is equating marriage for women with slavery or prostitution, since he believes that a man ought to be able to get a refund if the purchase of a woman does not live up to expectations.Attitudes like that make me so grateful I am not living in an Islamic country and the nurse must be too
Kate, Melbourne, Australia
Dr Ahmed, your comparison of a woman with a product is a perfect illustration of everything that is wrong in this case.
Anoushka, London, UK
What a strange concept - the law backing up the idea you don't have a right to lie.
Chris, boca raton, usa
This annulment is probably the best thing that happened to the girl, I would say she had a very lucky escape from a husband who should consider geting professional help
Pat, Ibiza, Spain
In claiming to be a virgin she lied. Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq. We condemn Bush for lying so why should we not condemn her. A contract entered into on the basis of a lie is a voidable contract. Marriage is a contract. Ergo the judge was right. QED.
D J Swainson, Chippenham, UK
Tricky one this. However, if they are both not objecting and as part of their faith, which they both are aware of, she needed to be a virgin then I would say there were grounds for divorce. That is based on their religion of course. It is a bit 16th century though.
Tony , London, UK
Its outrageous that such a back medieval practice should be allowed yet alone condoned in such a civilised country as France. Islam has a long way to go to get into the 20th century let alone the 21st
Dan, Winchester, UK
In the annals of the district in which I live in France, there is a similar case from the early part of the twentieth century where a bride concealed her motherhood from a returning soldier, but this case is extraordinary from a French legal standpoint. The law has, however, not changed since then.
Geoffrey Walker, Bordeaux, France
Certain people need to realise that moving to Europe involves a transition from an 11th century culture to a 21st century one.
Pauline Renton, Camberley, UK
If a single party in any marriage desires a divorce for any reason, it should be legally granted. Whats the big deal?
jayil, london, uk
If you spend to buy a product of certain criteria, yet you discovered you were robbed and deceived, would not you return the product and ask for refund. Yeah, I bet you all do.
Dr Ahmed, London, UK
She's a student nurse, the third certainty after death and taxes. How could he possibly believe she was a virgin?
What's the matter with these people? Were they born yesterday?
Charles, London,
Tha decision of the judge sounds very sensible to me. Rachida Dati got the point well and good for her to be unimpressed by the frenzy.
Michael Harrison, Sandwich, UK
Mysogyny is alive and well in the Islamic faith.
Mark, Chicago, USA
Shocking. These religious laws based on the world as it stood in the 7th century should not have one iota of legal standing in French law.
Steve, Norwich, Norfolk