In spite of all the platitudes, this war has already been lost. The UK and the US simply need to admit it.

Perry Stalsis, Toronto,

I hope that when we do pull out, Britain that is, that we can start to take some meaningful steps towards establishing mature relationships with Isalmic nations. Hopefully, with any luck, we can put some distance between ourselves and the USA. who's treatment of the rest of the world is pretty deplorable. Allies? Good god I hope not.

Bruce, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Joseph Kellie, Edinburgh, Scotland
You might think of directing your advice to the British. It's easy to blame the U.S. for the Brits involvment in Iraq. But take a look at history - Iraq is a regularly scheduled stop for the British militay. Same with Afghanistan. When do you think they'll get it right?

And by the way, who ever elected that clown Blair in the first place?

Mark Arneson, Redmon, WA/USA

Just read Randys blog. What a complete and utter git. You could actually liken the farmers in 1775 as insurgents!...Actually the last time the Brits fought well was in the Falklands...travelling thousands of miles South to fight against overwhelming numbers, with an enemy whose homeland was a couple of hours away. It took grit, determination and bloody deaths to kick out the Argies. It took a while for your President to actually climb off the fence. As for as not handling it is concerned..don't you realise that all of us have us have now done enough..we aren't losing, we aren't retreating...it's just time to come home. We can do no more...mainly because the Iraqis don't want us there. They now need to resolve their own problems. Incidentally, the last time you guys fought well (First Gulf War)..was because you were allied with Europe. The last time you fought well before that...was ..I believe Granada !!!

kirk , Rotherham, UK

It shouldnot be difficult for either the British or American Forces to get out of Iraq, under fire or not. After all both countries have had plenty of practise at humiliating withdrawals after unwarranted interference in other nations affairs. The USA from Vietnam; the UK from Palestine 1948, Suez 1956, Aden 1967 - and other colonial wars. I have the Aden campaign campaign medal and saw at first hand the withdrawal from that Middle Eastern Country. So Iraq won't be the first humiliation for either country.

Neil, Gloucestershire, England

The British are some of the best fighters the world has ever seen. Unfortunately in this brave new world we live in the Brits, like the US, are nothing more than a paid mercenary force in the employ of international banking and business conglomerates. The usefulness of the Brits in that part of the world is obviously at an end. If there is a "DEFEAT" when the Brits pull out it will obviously serve some sort of propaganda agenda of the powers that be. I am supposed to believe that with all the satellites, smart bombs, UAV's, advanced fighter aircraft, massive intelligence available and at the command and disposal of the Brits and US that a path could not be cleared out so that the "retreat", would be nothing more than a leisurely jaunt to the sea...You people need to get a clue, grow up,and get a grip on reality. This whole Iraq "war" will go down as one of the most staged events in the history of the world.

Bill, New York,

Mmmm could this be a politically motivated move/stunt from the US to get us (the Brits) to stay on a bit longer in search of a "Victory" ?

Don't forget Bush senior did not have the courage to follow through after the first Gulf war.
Personally I think we should support our troops (UK) who are doing a damn fine job in difficult circumstances

JD, Sheepford, 52nd State

I think we should leave, actually I think all the foreigners should leave, leave Iraq to its own people. We made a mass there, and we don't have a clue how to sort it out. Just think the cold war, it sort of sorted it out by itself eventually. If we all left now, there would be chaos, but I am sure in the long run, there would be peace and prosperity in Iraq.

CK, London,

To all the Americans call us cowards, failures etc.: Well we're still glad to see that you're risking your lives to fight the terrorists....from behind a keyboard thousands of miles away.

Mike, Edinburgh,

I think we all need to concentrate on solving this problem rather than pointng like little kids in a play ground. Spear a thought for all those being killed on a daily bases in iraq(soldiers and civilians alike) and thier families left to bury their dead and what is left of them. Do we not understand that this is not about history lessons and who is or isnt a coward, this is about the iraqis who have no choice in all this. Both the Us and Uk are to blame for the chaos raging in iraq. We have made mistakes now but if we put all that aside and spend half the energy we use blaming eachother to think, then we will solve some of the current pronblems. It is our selfish ways and greedy appetite that has caused this mess. We all need to check ourselves british and american and ask if we could have done more to prevent this war. Lets stop snipeing & start mending fences after all we are all humans(iraqis,americans, british,etc). someone always profits from war. There is a price for everything

Adegbola, London, United Kingdom

Some US and UK forces will stay in Iraq, but a large number (perhaps about 30,000) will remain as part of military concessions made by the current Iraqi government. It will be somewhat similar to Britain's role in Iraq between the wars. Britain supported limited self government in the interwar period, but kept its air force and some soldiers in reserve in case things got out of hand.

US and UK technical superiority will be used in Iraq, as needed, for many years to come.

But it's plane some sort of withdrawal of US troops is going to happen, and it will happen before the 08 elections.

Dems do not support the war and GOP support is dissipating.

Carl Goss, Los Angeles CA, CA, USA

To Mac of Eastend. It's true that Britain's loyalty has cost her 168. But I would like to point out that the cost of America's loyalty to the free world is approaching 3000. Theres only two sides in this so I wonder who you'd suggest Britain be loyal to.

Murph, Madisonville, USA/KY

So according to all the Liberal Socialist Brits commenting, all the yanks are trigger happy, stupid and ignorant. Have you any idea that Bush only got elected first time round by a dodgy vote and only won the second time because his opponent was so awful his own mother probably wouldn't have voted for him , and only barely won that time!!! Your own ignorance and inverted snobbery is truly disgusting! You conveniently forget harvard, yale and other top centers of learning, the excellent facilities of study and research because it doesnt fit nicely in to your myopic view of "stupid" america.
To all the republican voters on here talking trash...without "old europe" america would be another failed colonial experiment...where do u think you got all your ideas for law, liberty, democracy and business from..not to mention religion! Just because america has the wealth and power now to do what she wants doesnt mean that she should. Grow up and stop blindly following your leaders.

mike, cork, ireland

Bin Laden's overarching plan was to get the UK and the USA stabbing eachother in the back.

So well done to all you lunatics squabbling about whether the Americans or the British have failed in Iraq. Well done to the American advisor who is now slagging off British troops.

You have all just fulfilled Phase One of the Al Qaeda plan for world domination.

Paddy, Gloucester, UK

I fee I must apologize, for the gloating posts of my fellow Americans for the gloating and unseemly posts about this story. It doesn't make sense.

First it was weapons of mass destruction. haven't found any.
Second, we're liberating the Iraqi people. Yeah if you call a simmering pre-civil war that much of an improvement. /sarcasm
Third, well Saddam Hussein was involved with the 9/11 attacks. Not really it was Saudi Citizens working for Osama Bin Laden.

When someone changes their story that many times in normal conversation you begin to doubt them.

We pulled out many troops from Afghanistan before we finished there to launch this misadventure in Iraq. Now the situations in both countries are questionable to say the least.

We Americans owe the UK an apology for the situation this story describes. Any American poster here who disagrees needs to pay more attention to what happens outside of the USA, simple as that.

Wil, Augusta, GA

The last time the Brits faught well was in 1775 before being routed by farmers in the US. After the Brit's Navy was captured by Iran (all 12 sailors) they pretty much decided that the war for them was over in Iraq. While the US surge is routing Al Queda in the rest of Iraq, we can thank the UK for loosing the South of the country by their gutless stupidity. The obvious solution was to let Germany win WWII so that at least we would have a fighting force to work with in Iraq and perhaps discounts on BMWs to boot. But really, the Brits just need to come out and admit that they can't handle it and go on home. They can always blame it on Bush like everyone else does.

Randy, Baghdad, Iraq

How strange it is for someone in their 80s who saw action in WWII, and the after-effects of efforts to create the future, to read all this backward-looking commentary about blame and shortcomings, rather than considering the future.

What is to be done next, why and how, are more important than what caused it to come to be.

Reduction, not withdrawl, of British forces should be done by their moving into the areas North that have been stabilized, and continuing the "hold," whilst U.S. forces continue to press the insurgencies (pl.) down and out.

Iran will try to, and may, enter Iraq by proxies. But, they will be soon perceived for what they are, "foreign" dominators, even though Shi'ite, and the Shi'ites will have introduced a disruptive cultural and Arabic faction into their politics.

British military, with its "people sense" will show that they have done all that could be in the South, and move to apply their skills in the North.

R. Richard Schweitzer, Atlanta, GA. USA

Lots of criticism over comments by Americans on this thread (some of it deserved), but i'm also reading plenty of over the top anti-American vitriol as well.
I fear for both the US and the UK at the hands of Islamic extremists in the near future. They are the true enemies.

jonny, Marietta, GA, USA

Time to get into character Brits and Yanks: Grow a moustache, wear a black hat and suck it up. Because you’re the bad guys now. Your countries stand indicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity. But for those suffering from guilt stress, the solution is obvious: Hate it and leave it. Because to remain resident in UK/US respectively, is passive acquiescence or even support of your countries’ immoral foreign policy.

Andrew Milner, Karuizawa, Nagano

Comical Ali was right. He doesn't look quite so comical now.

John Smith, Manchester, UK

I for one think this war is a complete mess... however both the US and UK forces need to be supported here. Both countries have sent their men and women into a situation that will not be won. Not because of of the troops, but because of the politics involved. As we all sit in our free countries watching television and eating cookies, there are men and women right now getting shot at for doing as they are told. Both militaries are capable of a victory, but it will never happen. The poor planning and leadership have guaranteed us a painful withdrawl.

Jeremy, Orlando, USA

An important lesson to be drawn from this debacle is to examine carefully the fate of people who once sided with America.
Saddam Hussein :- long time ally of America, ends up executed by laughing anti American Shi'ites. Manuel Noriega :- long time ally of America, imprizoned for 15 years and about to be extradited to Colombia probably to be tortured and imprizoned for life. The Iraqi Kurds, encouraged to rise up against Saddam by Bush Sr, then abandoned and left to be slaughtered in their thousands. The south Vietnamese, after the Americans ran away as fast as they could, were slaughtered in their thousands. The US has a track record of betraying their allies and turning on their friends, once they are no longer useful. As demonstrated by the treacherous, backstabbing attitudes of the Americans who have posted on here, Britain should be very careful who it chooses to be friends with in future.

John, Southern Pines, North Carolina

Sorry to butt into the flame war of cherry picked history.

To quote the article :

The Ministry of Defence said the British were not heading for defeat. “Although the militias are trying to claim credit for ‘driving us out’, they are failing.”

Double speak, the militias are failing to claim credit or they are failing to drive the troops out ?

If they are failing to drive the troops out then why are the British leaving ?

John, Tokyo,

Level heads need to prevail. My country (UK) has been at war .....even before Julius Caesar tried to make some improvements to the infrastructure. ..... "Forever..... I suspect !"
The Brits keep getting into fights. They love to fight. They are good fighters. Nevertheless, Some of those voters do own knives and guns. I believe that there is no good that can come of killing voters, as they tend to hang out with other voters. It is always going to be a problem. We need to recognize our strengths and start invading other countries again. Let our young people live in peace ! As they so clearly want to do. Put them behind a gun in front of an enemy and let's sit back and watch the stock market rise and the crime rate fall. Worked before. Hitler and Stalin did push it a lit a little too far. Pol Pot got off. Let's just agree that we put all of the people who want to kill or are terribly afraid of being killed into a uniform ....or a Bhurqa (sic) and send them abroad.

ed boyle, Minneapolis, Minnesota. US.

Sometimes I think Bush and crowd didn't want to win. Look at the P/E rating of Haliburton before the war. They were ready for an Enron style collapse. There wouldn't be a Haliburton without the war. Maybe insurgency is good for the bottom line.

Shredder, Natick, Massachusetts, USA

I have written thoughtful comment after thoughful comment (as I'm sure many SANE Americans have) to no avail, yet the TIMES only posts the crap from people like Watson from Elizabeth, USA. Most Americans do not think like this. We actually DO appreciate what the Brits have done in Iraq. But the TIMES, for some reason, only posts inflamming comments from Americans. It's almost as if this site wants the British and American people to hate one another. To all the Brits angered by the previous Neo-con statements... just look at the polls in American politics: Bush and the Republicans are hated, while the Democrats (who praise the British daily and push for withdrawal of ALL coalition forces) are beloved.

But let me guess: Instead of posting this, the TIMES will just post some more hateful comments from the very tiny minority of redneck Americans who enjoy seeing our best ally in peril.

Alex, Seattle, USA

The actions of the trigger happy (culturally obtuse) Americans invading aggressively, shock and awe, Abu Ghraib, rape, murder of families, shootings at road blocks, frioendly fire etc have discredited the US and tarnished all the good things it supposedly used to stand for.

Phil, Hong Kong,

The difference between America and Great Britain is that America went for money and oil whilst the Brits went for the Iraqis.

The similarity is that both parties were lied to by their respective leaders.

Sal ibn Hari, Thornton Heath, Surrey

Sir,
The British Armed Forces are not some used prophylactic to be discarded once our use is over.

SC, London, United Kingdom

"A MILITARY adviser to President George W Bush has warned that British forces will have to fight their way out of Iraq in an “ugly and embarrassing” retreat."

Americans are just trying to embarrass the British by making these ridiculous statements, becuase UK are thinking of pulling out. The British have done more in/for Iraq then the whole US military. British are smart, pulling out is the right thing to do.

Mohammed, London, UK

Face, the war in Iraq is lost. The US and the UK just have to admit this (to themselves and to others).

Most of these puerile jibes, snotty comments and platitudes seem to be nothing more than those being made by people in car that is hurtling toward a cliff edge arguing about who gets to sit in the front seat.

Perry Stalsis, Toronto,

I've just read all of the comments so far. What can I say, most of this is very , very sad, especially from the american posters, who can come up with nothing better than cheap insults. But I also dislike the bickering about things military, and all of this macho competition. Everyone's so busy discussing militaries and missiles that they've forgotten about the good things in life and in nature. Not everyone chooses the life of a soldier. Why do we argue when soldiers kill or are killed? Are those not the two outcomes of a soldier's life? The politicians (and some people here) seem to act as though everybody shares this warrior world-view. The reality is that all societies (American, British, Chinese, Russian, Arabic, African) contain far more artists, scientists, musicians, home-makers, chefs and brick-layers than soldiers. Most of us despise war and oppose our governments when they act impusively. All I can say is that, for the majority of posters here: SHAME ON YOU.

Henry Sterling, Liverpool, UK,

Well done former Prime Minister Harold Wilson for not joining the US of A in the disaterous excursion into Vietnam. Pity Tony Blair didn't take a deep breath before deciding to send others on the Iraq trip.

Is it just a coincidence that this withdrawal coincides with the final payment to the good old US of A for the lend lease agreement for a war that ended over sixty years ago. Yes, the Yanks certainly know how to extract the last buck from those with their backs to the wall.

Alex, Edinburgh,

What's this about defeat. We achieved what we set out to do, ie oust Sadaam and rid the country of WMD (ha,ha). We then stayed to help reconstruction. This has been shown to be obviously not wanted (except maybe for a few politically motivated Iraquis who need our presence to keep them in power).

Let them sort themselves out and help if requested from outside.

Bill, UK,

Wow.

So many delusional fools - those whose solutions to the conflict either involve slaughtering everyone in a 30 mile radius or waltzing over the border and invading Iran. Of course they ignore the consequences: the diplomatic and international outrage, the backlash and loss of hearts and minds, and in the case of an Iranian invasion: a massive loss of life and economic disruption.

A retreat from an unethical and illegal war, that is going precisely nowhere, is an honourable thing. It safeguards the lives of our soldiers and allows our military to concentrate on important conflicts and zones where we can actually achieve something.

As for the Americans. Get off your high horse and realise that when we leave you'll be on your own and facing an even bigger, bloody, embarassing withdrawal. It was your war afterall.

As for an extension of the war into Iran: are you utterly and completey insane? Have we not tired of enough bloodshed? Why do you people never learn?

MXR, crewe,

If nothing else, the posts written here from the US citizens shows us where the UK should expend it's loyalty, money and blood in the future.

As I heard the British Army band play the Star Spangled Banner outside Buckigham palace after 9/11, I was supportive and resolute. Not any more. I have had enough of these rediculous people.

Raymond, York, UK

The fact is, the Brits who are our brethren, just don't have the backbone, and are going the way of Europe. If the Iraqi's would gets some backbone and charactor and, take a stand against that which is dividing THEIR country, they may be able to keep it. Otherwise, the Iraqi's don't deserve to have a country. On the otherhand, the Afghanis are standing up and fighting back against that which WAS dividing their country.

mike, Columbus, Indiana, USA

Sadly, most wars have to be fought because of people like many of the commentors to this site. Chambelin thought that Hitler wouldn't be a threat to England and that he could be reasoned with. Now we have islamofacists who want to convert the entire world to a califate and you silly people don't believe them.

You accuse the USA of being three years late in WWII and now you accuse us of being early. Freedom is not free and you are in danger of losing yours because you are not willing to fight for it.

Europe is quickly becoming an Islamist state. Don't blame America for the loss of your culture.

The reality is that Europe will be late defending itself against the loss of its heritage and roots.

I wish you good luck in the battle!

Big Russ, Naperville, Illinois, USA

A bit rich listening to yanks claiming that the brits are running etc, esp. from a nation who wear US flagged t-shirts claiming "these colors don'r run" and who have decided to air travel (esp. to Europe and other"dangerous" places) in ever decreasing numbers.
Fact is that we Brits, like you Yanks, should never have been in Iraq and we each of us are paying the price of the folly of our respective leaderships , in our "democracies" which have inflicted illegal war on the Iraqi people who clearly want us out NOW. There is NO POINT WHATEVER in staying........and if the UK (your best ally anywhere anytime) decides the game is up, you'd better get ready to do so as well, if you have any respect for your own young men beyond beating drums,flags and slogans...and if you think WE are running.just take a moment to reflect on your own previous ignominious failures in Viet Nam and Somalia etc. Waken up, your NeoCon vision of New World Order etc is in tatters and you'd better know it soon

R McClair, PARTHENAY, FRANCE

It will not be the first Middle Eastern rout for British forces. Read up on Palestine 1948, Suez 1956 and Aden 1967. It is high time the West stopped interfering in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries - Britain has caused enough chaos in the region, the most notable being the giving away of the land of Palestine to East European superstitious/religious thugs. It is this continual interference which has given rise to the current freedom fighters - look carefully the fighters are from all countries in the region. They have turned to religion because most of their policial leaders are puppets of the West. Those that aren't are labelled as terrorists by the semi-moronic G. W. Bush. As far as Britain is concerned this war was Blair's personal war, entered into on a deceitful web of lies, not something 70% of the British people wanted. Anyone found any weapons of mass destruction yet? ...Oh yes, all in the hands of the coalition forces - what a surprise.

Neil, Gloucestershire, England

If they have to go they have to make sure they leave a few dead bodies, I think it's now time they stopped being Mr Nice guy. It's been proved that what the PC brigade wanted hasn't worked. For every British soldier that is killed they have to make sure there is a few dead locals.

Barry Holmes, Christchurch, New Zealand

Iraq was a colossal blunder by the Bush administration. And it has shown their failed leadership and failed managerial skills. The Bristish soldier has always been great. It's a testament of our friendship that you have stayed with us so long. I can understand the decision for the British troops to leave iraq. Thank you for all of the help you have given us. I think the only sensible action is for us(USA) to provide the necessary forces to guard and protect your movements as you return home. Again, thanks for all you have done.

David Collins, Garland, USA/TX

The US will not allow this to become a rout, they will have to deploy to the airport before we decamp to the port, and most troops will probably fly out, not fight a rearguard action, this article does sound like Normandy, which it is not, why scare up people with family over there.
----------------------------------------------------
I think you were referring to Dunkirk not Normandy. If the boys fly out of Basra what happens to all that military equipment and vehicles?? left behind??

Ed Little, Pittsburgh, USA

Our service peronel have done very well in Iraq,and are showing the Americans how to do it in Afghanistan,particulary our soldiers.
They have been deployed by a pacifist government who find the notion of having armed forces disturbing.They have been deployed by a nutter called Blair and money witheld by a nutter called Brown.They have old and out of date equipment and their support from again this wreched has also prove poor in the extreame in medical areas and conditions of service for their families.It is a public disgrace,but where are the public?Voting for Labour.They dont deserve such fine women an men seving them for a pitance.They wont have any very soon.It is as though this government wants this to happen.I for one am begining to believe it.

Robert Boyd, Derby,

The utter catastrophe which has befallen the unfortunate people of Iraq is the result of yet another Western attempt to install a puppet Government in the Middle East. Remember, the USA was once a staunch supporter of Saddam Hussein - who was just as much a despotic tyrant then as he was in 2003. This was a cynical attempt by G. W. Bush and his bunch of neo-con advisors to get their greedy hands on Iraq's oil reserves. Sadly, the people of Iraq have had to pay a terrible price. Blair ignored the wishes of the majority of his people and allied himself to Bush - this illegal war should fail. It deserves nothing else. More imprtantly how can we in the UK hold Blair ro account for his lies and deceipt.

Neil, Gloucestershire, England

American is trying hard to change mind of British Government not to pull troops out of Iraq. American is very good at providing intelligence report? Reading this article gives me the impression

Munna, London, UK.

Unfortunately retreat now will only mean we have to fight again later. Then it will be even more on the terms of our enemy then now - perhaps in our own back yard.

There is a general failure to learn from the mistakes of the past in our country. Because of the bleeding heart liberal majority, we are reluctant to pay the price now. It will cost us dear later on. The gain sayers will maitain that it is our own fault for getting involved in the first place, but perhaps some with a modicum of sense will see we are engaged with an enemy we must defeat - that is if those pinko- liberals are to survive in their freedom and privelidged lifestyles.
The 'third world' is coming to us like it or not and it has a muslim face.

Dan V, london, uk

Odd, isnt it that the majority of the people in the US want their soldiers brought home too.

Where things went wrong in Basra is when the Black Watch were brought home to be disbanded

Janet, Hampshire, UK

Sadly its failure of Tony Blair's policy. The chickens are going to have their feathers plucked, in more than the proverbial sense. I will be glad to see the soldiers back home having fought valiantly. It matters not what people in USA say or think. What matters is that they were given a task of fighting a war not in UKs interest. For that very reason Blair will not be able to accomplish anything as an ME envoy. He is not trusted anywhere and more so in the Middle East.

Billoo Bhai, London, UK

This is not about cut and run. This is about saving lives and salvaging what is left. Nothing happened to US military reputation when they quickly withdrew from Lebanon in 1982 and Somalia in 1991 after suffering casualties.

Muhammad Aminu, Cambridge, United Kingdom

"It's pretty much just the Yanks and Aussies holding up the English end now isn't it?" Hilarious comment.

The Yanks are hiding in Baghdad and once again in another humiliating defeat have shown they are not quite the Super Power they claim.

John, London,

We all need to remember the experiences of the Troubles in Northern Ireland. There our forces were massively superior to a small, motivated, aggressive and quite franckly immoral force willing to hit almost any target for propoganda purposes.

Withdrawing troops may drawn scorn from some of the dimmer sections of our societies, but the reality is this. This is not our home territory. We do not have a particularly well led or politically-sensitive ally in the US. Whilst our forces can pretty much wipe out any like-for-like force, in this situation they are too resitricted by our sensitivity to civilian and military casualties to be able to suppress the insurgents.

In short, the miltiary cannot win this war alone. It needs the press, the public (both Iraqi, British and US) and international political support to hem in the actions of the terrorists, not allowing them the oxygen of perceived victories.

Should we have gone there? Moot point. We need to make the best of a bad job.

Jonathan, Cirencester, England

I think Richard's view amply demonstrates why so many people despise the American analysis of world events.

I suggest you read some of the great books written by American authors on the Iraq experience and then decide who really are dhmmis-in-waiting and who ultimately bears the burden of the deaths of men and woman, civilian and military, who frankly understand far better the cost of the Iraq adventure.

Annie, Oxford,

Richard L California
As an Ex serviceman of 23 years service in the Parachute Regt/RCT and as for my sorry arse I would like to draw your attention to you departure from Vietnam which cost your nation dearly in both lives and as you say your ass was well kicked.
I would also point out the Iraq War was entered into with lies to both your nation and ours which did little to instill faith in George Bush or Tony Blair.
As for your General Petraeus comments and his report being written by the white House I can say with experience our officers are both well trained and lead by example. They also speak for themselves and write their own reports.
I note you speak well given your life is not on the line and I take it you speak for your nations dead and injured, along with there families. I don't think so do you?
As for you marines escourting us on to the boats we may ask for helicopter to fly us of the building like you did in Siegon remember.

Graham Jesty, Wakefield, England

It will be the end of yet another attempt by the West to impose a puppet Government on a Middle Eastern state. This was not a war which the people of Britain ever wanted - it was Blair's war entered into on a web of lies and deceipt, to both Parliament and to the country. The US forces will be next to go, and then the people of Mesopotamia will be, for the first time in over 100 years, free to draw up their own boundaries and forms of Government, without the West telling them what is good for them. Those that denigrate Middle Eastern freedom fighters ought to look long and hard at the historical facts - (ie the giving away of Palestine to a bunch of mainly East European superstitious/religious thugs, the continual invasions and Colonial occupations in countries of the area) with most of their leaders as puppets of the West, and those that aren't labelled as terrorists, they turn to religion as the only means of expressing themselves.

Neil, Gloucestershire, England

AS someone who has worked with British RAF and SAS Forces for almost 30 years, I can state from my experience that they truly are some of the very Best-of-the-Best in terms of capability. i will never forget the fact that when almost no one else would stand beside us, Britain did, as did Australia and Canada. To say that their military is incapable in their present circumstances is simply to reveal that one does not understand the situation. Their plight is a result of POLITICAL failure and not military capability. America owes them whatever support and service they need to help them with whatever decision they make.

One should not forget that in the very dark days of WW II Winston Churchill was facing replacement for things going horribly wrong. Numerous defeats caused Britons to doubt him and their strategy. A change in General's (Montgomery) turned things around there. Just a some were willing to give up too early then, I fear that history is repeating itself again here.

J. R. McGee, Pottstown, USA

It's true that the Islamic world is a mystery to most of us in the west but, to me, the attitude of many Americans (as witnessed by the comments below) is even less understandable. Considering that we spring from similar cultural roots, your emotional insecurities and political isolation from the rest of the world is remarkable.

Bruce, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

It is amusing to read the angered posts from Canadians and Brits. Their specious arguements that a withdrawel from Iraq is warranted based upon past reluctance to enter conflicts (WWI & WWII) by the US is actually comical. The sad fact is that WWI and WWII would never have been won by the conglomeration of back water countries fighting the Axis powers had the US not intervened. The world needs the US to maintain order. All of you rail against the US, but are sadly inept and lacking of fortitude to stand up to your own shadows. Having said all of that, the sad state of post war Iraq is the US' fault, and in hidnsight, Iraq should never have been invaded. But its too late for that. Martial law should be implmented for the next 5 years and Iran brought to account for their meddling.

Scott Jenkings, Boston, MA, USA

I am just waiting for the Jihadists in Baghdad to kick the Americans out !
But that shouldn't be to much of a shock for the Americans should it? If Vietnam is anything to go by, the USA is a lot more used to losing wars and defeat than the UK is!

Mr_Reality, Brighton, England

you idiots that think the US can't win or will not win, go ahead and run like you do best , you all have had a lot of practice. Just get out of the way and sit down and shut up and we (United States) will clean up the mess you idiots have made for more years than can be counted.

Watson, Elizabeth, USA

My dear Kirk , you have to understand that the West is now civimilized. No more Dresdens and Hiroshimas. British soldiers have to die protecting the enemy. The enemy's 3 year old child is now more important than some Brit's 20 year old child serving in the army. You can ask us in Israel. Every day we've got missiles falling in our towns (inside Israel proper) and we are too civimilized to do anything about it. (We are obviously waiting for a missile to fill on a packed nursery...) Last summer we had all our major northern towns under seige from Hizbola missiles and we were too civimilized to carpet bomb Lebanon. Wars have changed. If the West had acted like this in WW2, all Hitler would have had to do was to put a child atop every Panzer and today we would all be saying "Heil Hitler!".

Ray, Rehovot, Israel

''In a retreat''

This will be how we leave all the translators and Iraq helpers behind to be butchered.

I do hope this does not happen

Nicholas Iles, Oswestry, Shropshire

The cying prisoners of war on TV were pathetic.

qwerty, London,

Unfortunately, uk political correctness would never allow this even at the expense of a hundred British dead!
Thats why it took so long to sort out the IRA - If we did!

Barry, Brisbane, Australia

Serves them right,losing is a good cure for arrogance

Kim Gadfly, Dudley, uk

But us Brits, with our valuable Northern Ireland experience and our "nuanced" as opposed to American gung-ho attitude, were going to bring townhall democracy to Sourthern Iraq. While wearing soft cap instead of helmets.

james b, london, uk

Western forces leaving Iraq will happen eventually. The war is not progressing so there can only be two choices to bring about peace, security and a stable, independent, democratic government.

Firstly to stay and intensify the conflict to gain control by wiping out resistance with an iron fist. The death of more British, Iraqis, Americans or Australians, Christians or Muslims, Troops, Civilians or Aid Workers is certain. This will only serve to worsen social conditions throughout Iraq and the Middle East and further alienate nations from each other. Maybe eventually there will be a "western victory" but not before conflict and terrorism has spread.

The second choice is to try something different as the current approach is clearly not working the way it should have. If that means withdrawing forces, less people dieing and dealing with matters through international unity, then surely it is likely to bring better results, sooner?

Anthony Smith, Cambridge, United Kingdom

Lets not kid ourselves about the situation in Iraq!
I was on a V.L.C.C. last year in a queue of 28
V.L.C.Cs all capable of carrying up to 2 million
barrels of crude. We loaded after a wait of one
month at Basra Oil Terminal - pumping oil at
94,000 barrels an hour! - That was ONE oil
terminal offshore. The oil from Iraq is some of
the highest quality in the world, easily processed
into gasoline, diesel, kerosene, fuel oil and all
the other valuable products that come from crude.
America was desperate to get another main
source of crude apart from Saudi - where the
crude is of a low quality and difficult to process.
The oil reserves in Iraq are vast, but to get
constant access to them is going to be
impossible. The Shia are regarded as Iranians
by the rest of the arab world who are mainly
Sunni. The borders of this country are too vast
to control so it is impossible to stop the huge
amounts of explosives and weapons supplied
by Iran and other hostile states.

R. Owen, Newcastle upon Tyne, England

What is happening in Basra is awaiting the Americans in a year or two. They may be able to hold back the insurgents with the troop surge, but that can't last forever. Iraq is not going to turn into a peaceful democracy when it is surrounded by states and organizations who oppose that. The American policy is that we can't be defeated if we don't withdraw, so they will continue to fight, many more brave American troops will loose their lives just to delay the inevitable civil war until after Bush has left office. The British Army has a more worthwhile battle in Afghanistan

Adrian, London,

To Martin, Boise, USA
Never say never, Martin! I fear the US troops there will face the same if they withdraw from the areas they control now. What we see there is an insurgency and the enemies of the coalition forces there are militias and various groups of insurgents and terrorists. Just remember, how US special forces were ambushed and got out of Mogadishu, Somalia in 1993. I'm not going to play down their heroism but it's war and we see what we see. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, so live and learn!

Egor, Moscow,

Dont blame our military for this impending lunacy. Blame the white flag politics forced upon them. If the lunatics want control of Iraq we cant do much about it, next time we should do as we always have done..pick the fight only if victory is a certainty.

Martin, Nottingham, England

“Although the militias are trying to claim credit for ‘driving us out’, they are failing.” This sounds to like a Commical Ali type comment.

chris , dubai, uae

And how many people tried to tell Bush and Blair that this would be another Vietnam? These are going to be scenes as dreadful as the helicopters out of Saigon and no one thinks of our own men who will have to do this, take the risks, the injuries, the death and the humiliation.

Helen, Northants,

I cannot believe the comment from 'Martin, Boise, USA'. I have served with the Americans and, with some reservations, they have my respect. This guy makes the cheapest of cheap shots. - dishonouring his country in the process. We should not have got into this illegal war in the first place. Tony Blair brought shame on our country and our armed forces by supporting Bush. Our military have, by and large, performed very well given a lack of manpower, equipment and resources that is close to a national disgrace.

Andy, Suffolk,

Who cares if its embarrassing, the whole occupation has been one huge embarrassment and the sooner its ended the better. The important matter is to get the troops out as quickly as possible. They are doing no good there, they only act as targets.

Americans shouldn't be so smug and self satisfied either, their area of Iraq has been an even bigger disaster. At least Britain is coming to terms with reality. Fat chance of that ever happening to Bush.

Mark, Newcastle,

What has all of these losses "achieved". Anyone with a moderate knowledge of the area and its history and languages will realize that these unfortunate soldiers would be chased out sooner or later. Just read Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom.

The fact is that the UK is in a consumer binge and most people are far too busy jetting about on holidays and so on to read the newspapers. As a result, the politicians have had a clear field.

Alfred, Ryde, Isle of Wight, UK

An orderly retreat is more difficult to accomplish than an invasion. Shades of Dunkirk and welcoming the troops home from India, I was there and saw how it affected the British. We have the same situation coming when our troops come home from Iraq. It does not feel good to take a whipping from the ninety pound weakling. The history still has to be written and it will not be kind to either the UK and US.

Joe Emerson, Lisco, Nebraska, USA

Too bad Blair doesn't get to oversee this Dunkirk. If you voted for him (or his party), I hope you always remember your former allies twisting that knife in your back. You're just the new French, and you deserve it.

Next time, try not voting for a poodle.

srv, SF, CA

This will be the same for the US, those who think the US will come out well in Iraq, are living with blinders on. No occupation in history, has come out well, when the occupiers leave. George Bush conned Blair into going into Iraq, its not the British's fault they listened to a flim-flam man, its Blair's fault for being conned.

True American, Corpus Christi, Republic of Texas, USA

Some people made a terrible mistake by supporting Blair's and Bush's invasion of Iraq on the basis of what turned out to be incorrect facts.

These people should accept the consequences of their mistake: the loss of their personal honour.

These people should stop asking soldiers to die in a vain attempt to cover up their own gullibility.

expat UK

Keith Terrence, Winnipeg, Canada

"Sgt" Fury,
You have zero appreciation for the capabilities of the British forces. If you had any military experience whatsoever you would know they are top of the class. Please do not post ridiculous statements and attach a respected military rank to it. Moreover, either make an arguement or step back. I have no time for "faux" Canadians.

Shane, Ottawa, Canada

A cursory knowledge of World history is enough to understand that you cannot walk into other people's countries and simply takeover, they don't want you or your culture there.


The Muslims are doing it in England right now.

Richard, Shaw AFB, SC

I love the way the uninformed people on here are talking about the political leadership of Britain being cowards. They are not cowards they are simply learning from historical parallels that the type of war going on in Iraq cannot be won with conventional troops. Let me remind people of some history. America won its independence from Britain primarily with the use of irregular, "insurgent" forces that targeted largely static forces holed up in forts and encampments - they knew where the troops were and attacked them when they came out to patrol the countryside or when transferring supplies...... sound familiar? America lost the war in Vietnam in very similar circumstances. If the US Generals had been given the troops they requested after the initial invasion then they might have better secured the Syrian and Irainian borders and prevented most of the insurgents getting in. They didn't and the rest is history - written large in Iraqi and coalition troop blood.

Ian Price, Northampton, UK

Dr Barton's observations were most illuminating. What on earth are they all smoking at Oxford these days?

David Masu, Zürich,

if this turns into an apprent rout it will be because the British Media will report it that way. The commanders on the ground have done what they set out to do (which was stabilise the situation until the Iraqui's own security forces could take over) Now they are waiting for an expeditious moment to get out.

James, Leicester,

Britain joined this sorry venture on a Prime Ministers whim, who will be milking his part in it, for what its worth, on the US lecture circuit, while our brave soldiers die and are maimed in an unwinnable war.

To all the gung ho americans reading this article.... don't be so smug. US will be next in spite of hundreds of billions of dollars of high tech equipment, the retreat will be more ignominous than Vietnam. 150,000 troops to control a city ? Actually its 100 troops to control the city and the rest to protect them.

J. Taylor, London,

Its a shame that Richard L reflects the truly ignorant face of the minority of Americans.

The situation is no better in Bagdhad either, unfortunately Fox, CNN etc just happed to paper over the cracks. If your commanders weren't so scared of taking casulties 3 years i.e. racing around town in armoured patrols, without getting out and engaging with the locals, things could have been different in all parts of Iraq - US and Brit troops would have been seen as saviours not occupiers; a situation that the Brit-led consortium managed to achieve in the Balkans in the 90s.

Perhaps our troops are better informed and educated - all my mates out there think this campaign has been the biggest waste of our army's time, lives & money. We should save it for more necessary campaigns like the Falklands (and where were you US? at least the French helped us!).

Andy, London,

It is time for us to run away. We must quit this war and everything will be nice again. There was no badness until we attacked Iraq and took all their oil. We are bad. Americans are VERY bad because they do things like fight and win wars and set people free- people who usually are fit only to be ruled anyway because they are lesser people than people with a culture and a civilisation. Britain, formerly GREAT Britain, used to have both. We traded it for socialism and diversity. Nice trade!

Radical Muslims are good. We should submit to them and their will and join them in friendship. They are nice people. All they want to do is kill people who don't believe the same things they do. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe we should just lay back and enjoy it...

Steve Jardonne, Bulawayo, Rhodesia

We had no problems in the UK before the phoney war in Iraq.
Now we have a problem with no end in sight, our troops will be best deployed protecting the UK and not helping the Republicans in their propaganda.
As for the sad comments from many across the pond, shame on you that you show such disrespect for the unconditional support always shown and too the lives of the many British soldiers lost.

Paul Houghton, johannesburg, south africa

The US "advisor" is giving advice?? Must be same guy who has run through 3 failed strategies and could point to "exactly" where the WMDs were. And French jokes from Martin in Boise? I'd say the jokes's on us: no WMDs, no stability, no water, no electricity, now flower-strewn welcomes. Meanwhile Osama bin Laden runs free thanks to Bush taking his eye off the ball.

michael sheridan, Oak Hill, VA USA,

Don't let a "Siagon Moment" deter removal of your army. Amazingly enough we survived that Siagon Moment & the "world" did not collapse. Unfortunately we did not learn from our "Siagon Moment" so we are mired in a self-created mess. Hope that your military & civilian officials/leaders learn from your rush to join us in the mess. So some of you want to stay and lose more than 10-15 men who might be lost in the "going" Think about it!

K Winghart, Centennial, CO, USA

This is a U.S scam to make out that the British troops to be defeatests, hoping it will make the Tommies stay longer in Iraq to help the Bush hawks in their endeavours to control Iraq and fulfill the Bush administration to bring to fruition their full control for many years as conquerers, and stepping stone for other territorial gains within the Middle East.
Brown should not fall for the Bush lies and his devious ways to control others in the coalition forces, or any of his commanders, what there is left of them who support Bush.

Ernest, chilliwack, Canada

Iraq was always going to be the total disaster predicted by the 8 million who actually foresaw the outcome and demonstrated against an illegal, aggressive and immoral invasion that - predictably - has claimed over 500,000 lives. Many more saw what would happen but did not actually demonstrate. How is it that the judgement of ordinary citizens was so much better than that of our much vaunted politicians?

Phil, Hong Kong,

There are no winners in war. Just losers!

Jon, derby, uk

Brits will have enough problems preventing their country from becoming Islamic. Better the troops go home and defend the UK from the Islamic army it allowed to immigrate in droves.

Richard, Shaw AFB, SC

Sometimes I do wonder if these American " cousins" have brains? You do know more Muslims live in America than Britain?

Deepan, London, U.K

Kirk..I agree with you. But sadly in these days of political correctness and fighting with one hand tied behind your back it won't happen. As for me. If they do retreat to a single base. I'd like to see them re arm, re fit, go out the gates, and kick mahdi butt!
But I guess the powers that be won't let that happen either. What a tragic shame.

Murph, Madisonville, USA/KY

Another disastrous middle eastern adventure. Shades of Gallipoli to me. The only thing is, water buckets and string tied to rifle triggers probably won't work this time.

Mike, Perth, Australia

What a difference a century makes. The once great and respected
United Kingdom, run out by a bunch of fanatical thugs. I'm sure
your ancestors would be so proud. Where is Churchill? Where is Thatcher? Just a memory I guess. If you don't think your freedom is worth fighting for, why should we? May God bless the Queen, and may God bless America.

Brian, San Marcos, California U.S.A.

to cover a retreat u will need air power, to keep back the insurgents, while the army fly out, but the air force air power will have to be 2-3 squadrons, at least to keep them from getting close enough to airport.

jon rose, torrington, uk

I think we're past the embarrassment stage. From now on the death of every British soldier in our pointless prolongued presence in Iraq will be blood on the hands of Gordon Brown.

jo, york,

To be honest, I don't think the British forces are in a position to exert that sort of authority. This is a war that should never have happened in the first place and four years on we continue to pay the consequences.

CoogarUK, Dorchester,

Unfortunately, Bush and McCain were right. When any coalition force announces a timetable for troop reduction or withdrawl, you've lost. The insurgents will not only strike with everything they have, but they'll follow you home. I hate to say it but the UK is in dire straits. It's just a matter of time. Great Britain will be unrecognizable in a generation or less. You're just prolonging the inevitable now. Goodbye and good luck.

George Wakulik, Canonsburg, USA / Pa

The UK government has condemned anti-Americanism, but I am shocked by the virulent anti-British comments of some of the US posters. It is easy to be smug and sarcastic in Idaho, Texas or California, at least until Washington re-introduces the draft.

Rather the critical comments look like the beginning of a myth: to blame the UK politicians/people/military for US failures in Iraq, just as the German military scape-goated the Jews for defeat in WW1 and as the American military scape-goated the press for defeat in Vietnam.

To date the UK's loyalty to the US in Iraq has cost the lives of 168 British servicemen and women (some of whom were killed by Americans), 52 civilians killed in the London bombing on 7/7/2005 and is costing the UK taxpayer $5.25 billion a year.

If the ignorant comments and crass ingratitude of these US posters genuinely reflect the attitude of the American people to its staunchest ally, why would Britain or any other nation support the US in war ever again?

Mac, Eastend of London,

Lets not forget the rather more worthy war in Afghanistan - we have under invested in the military for years - they are still the best in the world but sometimes you have to accept you can't do everything - I'd rather leave Basra and save Afghanistan than lose both for stupid pride.

And Americans - don't forget you haven't won a real war without us since independance - you even had to lie about your success with the Mexicans and Canadians.

Benjamin, Gloucester,

The UK is going to find out shortly what it's like to be chased out of a country that it should never have gone to in the first place. It will be Britain's mini-Vietnam. As usual the politicians will be sat comfortably telling the public that the whole thing has been a roaring success whilst the lads from the poorer parts of our cities get killed and maimed for life. Perhaps the best thing about it will be that Britain will never again be drawn into such ill-conceived enterprises. The only basis upon which the UK's military forces should be deployed are if and when GB is under direct threat. Then we have something worth fighting for, unless GB is a Muslim state by then in which case it won't matter.

Ian Olive, Moutardon, France

Martin, we don't tell French jokes. We tell American jokes. You guys are a walking punchline these days

Jonathan, London,

Beware of indvaders who come masquerading as liberators. The Iraqi people have obviously heeded these wise words of Ghandi.

Neil, Gloucestershire, England

I am completely ignorant of military stragegy. I therefore propose the British force gets out as soon as possible (ignoring politicians' date games) . I think the allies have done several decades worth of damage already, obviating the need to "wipe out" any more lives.
To avoid the "French jokes" (really American jokes -- compare US-European casualties in the world wars, all of which were a result of mass gullibility and stupidity) we have to admit we were wrong to wantonly slaughter our Arab neighbours and we simply have to learn to get on with them for the sake of our peoples' futures.

Paul, Taiwan,

There were no WMDs, Saddam was not aligned with al Qada, and Iraq was not able to launch WMDs at the UK with 15 minutes notice. The invasion of Iraq was a terrible mistake.

Those who supported the invasion (who believed Tony Blair) are paying for their mistake with the loss of their personal honour.

Soldiers are paying for the mistake of those who supported the invasion with the loss of their lives.

The deaths of British soldiers and Iraqis are due to the mistakes of those who supported the invasion.

Enough is enough.

Staying even after we have realized our mistake will bring far greater dishonour upon us.

Staying in Iraq will cost far more than the lives of 15 British soldiers, and it will not restore the lost honour of the gullible.

Keith T, Winnipeg, Canada

Kirk, great idea. Make it a 1,000 mile radius.

Bob, Osaka, Japan

Naturally we always believe everthing that the Americans spout forth. That is what has brought the UK to this sorry pass.

I suppose we should sit up and pay attention as the US do have previous experience of retreating from hell holes.

Perhaps that is why the US embassy in Baghdad is gigantic- its going to need a big roof to take all those choppers cuz...

Scotch, Solihull, England

According to von Clausewitz, two of the major Principles of War are Selection and Maintenance of the Aim, and Maintenance of Morale. Both appear to have been totally disregarded in the case of Iraq, with inevitable consequences. It might have helped if the government that sent our troops to Iraq had some first-hand experience of military matters, but it's too late now unless they belatedly wake up to the humiliating disaster that is currently staring them in the face.

Nicholas Lee, Windsor, UK

I am saddened by the ill-conceived and somewhat xenophobic reaction from some of our American correspondents. The balanced view wold be that at any time (and the time will surely come) a force re-deploys back to its native soil the erstwhile opponents will do all they can to create an impression that they have "pushed the invader" out.

Perhaps a different outlook might have occurred had proper strategic planning tken place and if the President (and Prime Minister) had actually taken notice of the more experienced heads who were more than happy to tell all that an invasion into Iraq would not be easy. It was always the case that it would not be the entry but the exit thta was the challenge.

In closing, whilst at face value what this "adviser" - I'm assuming he is a politician as opposed to serving officer - says is true. Perhaps the way to counter it is to state how valued the contribution of the UK government has been in fighting a US war.

C P Nolan, Reading, UK

This is just another example of the media dictating public opinion, which is effectively forcing British withdrawal. The sad result in this case is that it will appear that British forces were defeated. No such thing: they just are not allowed, by weak government with both eyes on the media, to do the job they should be doing. It is well beyond time that the West showed Islamists some of the REAL power it has at its disposal.

Eamonn, Dublin, Ireland

This is the beginning of the unravelling of Western hegemony in the Middle East, going back to the settlements of the former Turkish Empire at the end of World War One.

Goodness knows what that will lead to. But the West itself is largely to blame. They should have shown Arab nations more respect, starting with the Kurdish question (dumped in 1920) and continuing with the State of Israel in 1948.

In the Middle East, by Western standards, it is hard to find any good guys. Oppressed minorities? Hardly Israel! Palestine has moved to an extremist position. As for minorities within minorities, witness the horror of the videoed stoning of Du'a Khalil Aswad, a Yazidi (non-Muslim) Kurd. And "honour killings" are rife among the Kurds. Hardship only makes people harder, not compassionate.

The seeds of the destruction of hegemony are often laid right at the very beginning.

Perhaps they should hand the Middle East back to the Turks?? (Only joking!)

cerronevado, Malaga, Spain

I cannot understand why Tony Blair has never explained
what boys´toys Britain possess these days in exchange for playing with Bush.

kerstin, paris, france

Ian turner you have been completely fooled by your country, you have not understood that this war was never winnable. The neo cons who started it are conspicous by their absence "on the ground", they let the soldiers do the fighting and the dying. and for what? Thousands of Americans dead, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, half a trillion dollars spent on the project and nothing achieved in the end, other than make the world a more dangerous place.
you seem to want this situation to continue for no end!

akram, London,

If we funded and gave our policitical support to our troops, this situation would not have come about. So much for our reputation as the pucky Brits, egg pours from our faces while our Liberal left roar with approval.

Richard, London,

Serves the Brits and Americans right! Shouldn't have been there in the first place. Bush and Blair are war criminals and should be tried at the Hague.

And Ian Turner describes the Iraqis as primitive tribesman- they dont seem so primitive in the face of the Great US and all their gadgetry and tyranny. The US have more 9-11s on the way- you cant invade sovereign states, massacre innocent people and expect no retribution. 4000 people killed at 9-11. But how many innocent Afghans and Iraqis since. Hundreds of thousands...God Bless America!!!!

Idiots!

Caoimhín, Dublin, Ireland

Damn Yankees' DUTY & RESPONSIBILTY to SECURE a conducive condition in Basra for British troops to withdraw from Iraq. NO British soldier should have to die when the time comes to pullout. A Saigon scenario must NEVER be repeated.

Goddamn insurgents must not be seen as closing in on the airport.

S K LIN, guangzhou, china

"Their idea of world polatics is to send young men from poor backgrounds into a situation their country has no idea about and lacks any civil understanding of culture (vietnam for example). Your own country is an absolute mess, look at the poverty and injustice in the wake of New Orleans (its practically third world). "

Clearly, you have no idea about the US, and are getting your perceptions from a US media that is largely Democrat (while the President is Republican). This bias is then spread around the world as "The Truth."

Also, the idea that the US military is made up of poor people is patently absurd. Do some research before you pass on such myths.

And the N.O. problem was one of local and state government not evacuating the local populace, which didn't have the sense to get out on their own. The US government is not responsible for micro-managing local actions. The state had plenty of advance notice, and failed to act.

Dave, Washington, D.C.,

We Americans appreciate the support of the Brits. Don't let a few negative comments posted here change your perception of us, just as I won't let comments that Americans are "trigger happy 'masters of the universe'" effect my perception of all Brits.

Dave, Washington, D.C.,

At least the British are not as deluded by visions of global supremacy as the Americans. In terms of defeat for US, this is worse then Vietnam. Billions of dollars of high tech equipment could not bring victory. Perhaps if the money had been distributed in Iraq, there would not have been need for thousands of soldiers to die, not forgetting hundred of thousands of civilians. But the money goes to share holders of military industrial complex, such as Cheney and Rumsfeld. At least in Vietnam, there was a super power supporting the VietCong. Here its a ragtag bunch driven by sheer will power and belief. Small wonder, US is now distrbuting more weapons in Middle East as its let a genie out of the bottle and doesnt know how to put it back.

Come on America, show the world leadership that is rightfully yours and not be a global bully.

J. Taylor, London,

Politicians at MOD: British were not heading for defeat. “Although the militias are trying to claim credit for ‘driving us out’, they are failing.”

British commanders on the ground: "It is the final British withdrawal from Basra airport that is the cause of most concern, with military commanders expecting to lose between 10 and 15 men. "

Who are we to believe? Oh, I apologize, it was a silly question.

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

Brits will have enough problems preventing their country from becoming Islamic. Better the troops go home and defend the UK from the Islamic army it allowed to immigrate in droves.

Richard, Shaw AFB, SC

It official, England and Europe are wimps, you deserve to live under Sharia law. I'm old enough that when the real bad times comes I will be close to death but I will still be young enough to curse Europe for being cowards

Jim Gostkowski, Knoxville , TN USA

The responses by all but one of the American respondents have made me rethink my personal stance on the Iraq war. I never wished to judge a nation by the sorry and mis-informed few but ....

Face up to it - the sooner the USA starts to believe what the world says about its leadership the sooner they will remove Bush.

Geoff, Macclesfield, UK

The US is never going to leave Iraq. Or rather I should say, they're never going to leave the place that used to be called "Iraq".

The leaders who call the shots in the US may give lip service to caring about US and British casualties, but the fact is they consider our losses minor in the extreme - a few thousand blue collar types who volunteered and thus have little to complain about, and a couple of hundred foreigners who also happened to be volunteers.

And in the scheme of things, they might have something there, considering that the US would have to stay in Iraq for about 65 years to reach the level of casualties experienced in the Vietnam War.

War gets people killed. It's what happens. And compared to other wars, this one has been comparatively bloodless.

Ahh, the white man's burden is a bit overblown, I would say.

M. Bright, Las Vegas, USA

I think it's pretty clear by now that Bush and his cronies have lost all credibility. Nothing they say can be taken without a boulder of salt.

Shaun Smith, Toronto, Canada

Interesting how the Americans on here shooting their mouths off are all doing it from the safety of their armchairs, 8000 miles from the warzone. My Korean war vet father in law, my ex Vietnam vet brother in law and my ex Afghanistan and Gulf War vet business partner were all in agreement long before this bloodbath began. It was always going to be a big mistake.
Warfare to the majority of the American public means driving round with a patriotic bumper sticker on and maybe watching the heavily biased reprts on Fox News. They wanted a cheap easy, bloodless revenge for 9/11 and so they all rooted for an unjustified assault on an easy victim -Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with it. And now things are getting tough, the chickens are coming home to roost, the Americans are seeing the true meaning of warfare and they are all losing their bottle. Pathetic.

John, Southern Pines, North Carolina

The US will not allow this to become a rout, they will have to deploy to the airport before we decamp to the port, and most troops will probably fly out, not fight a rearguard action, this article does sound like Normandy, which it is not, why scare up people with family over there.
----------------------------------------------------
I think you were referring to Dunkirk not Normandy. If the boys fly out of Basra what happens to all that military equipment and vehicles?? left behind??

Bubba, Pittsburgh, USA

Whether the British troops pull out or not, the whole situation will be exceedinly embarrassing, not to mention disastrous for the troops stuck out in Iraq in this illegal war. I keep hoping for the situation to improve but I sincerely doubt it ever will. I dream of the day when Bush and Blair will admit this war was a fatal mistake, but of course that's another wild fantasy that will never come true... Oh and Dave Madley: not that I agree with the American, man-made version of 'Christianity', but whoever you believe he was, Jesus is an historical figure, recognised by (educated) atheists and people of other religions as well as Christians. Don't flaunt your ignorance to make a point, it makes your views (which, other than your last statment, I agree with) far less credible.

Emily, Cambridge, UK

This was a war based on lies and deception. It was a war opposed by the majority of people in both the USA and UK. On that basis alone it should fail, and be seen to fail.

Neil, Gloucestershire, England

I WONDER WHY THE BRITISH PUBLIC DIDNOT REACT WHEN THEY WERE OCCUPYING IN THE INDIAN SUB CONTINENT FOR NEARLY TWO HUNDRED YEARS? THEY ROBBED THE COUNTRY OF ITS WEALTH AND ABUSED THE INDIAN PEOPLE IN EVERY WHICH WAY.NOBODY WANTS TO BE RULED BY AN OCCUPYING FORCE.IT IS TIME THE BRITISH PEOPLE AND ITS LEADERS WOKE AND SMELT THE COFFEE.

PRASANNA, DECATUR, ILLINOIS

A meesage to all the Yanks gloating ....for the US to have any control in the areas they operate they have to act like NAZIS against the Iraqi population. The truth of the matter is that most Iraqi's and Afghanis have more courage and bravery in their little finger than an entire platoon of US marines, who still rely heavily on indescriminate airpower to gain any ground. Just wait and see...the US will be sent packing soon and hopefully there will be no mercy for the Yanks. Who needs enemies when you have friends like the US.

Samuel, Glasgow,

The UK lost the war the day that Baha Musas' father identified his body at Camp Steven where he had been beaten to death by UK army thugs.

Ed Little, Pittsburgh, USA

Its sad for Britain. This is clearly a defeat for British Arms. The weakness of the British military was clearly exposed i the "kidnapping" of the sailors and marines by the Iranians on the Shatt-Al-Arab.

Most of the British posters to this Blog seem to be trying to disguise their shame at this defeat in self-righteous anger at the USA. Others display a simplistic belief that the US is the cause of the world's ills and that if the US would only vanish, everyone would just "get along", guided by the UN. This is hopelessly naiive. The UN is not a government, its resolutions are not backed by fmeaningful force .

Therefore, if the US retreats from the Iraq and then invevitably the world, the outcome will be that the US' rivals (Russia, China and whatever ghastly Islamofacist state emerges in Middle East) will bully and threaten Western Europe with impunity. As they will have seen, Western Europe has no will or capability to fight back. And no American protector.

Guy Langley, Los Angeles, California

James of London..What on earth are you talking about?

kirk, Rotherham, UK

The UK lost the war the day that Baha Musas' father identified his body, at Camp Steven, where the British army thugs had beat him to death.

Ed Little, Pittsburgh, USA

Stuart from London needs to regroup and do a little more studying. If you cut ties with these people, you are going to realize the hard way, how fast your economy will deteriorate. If you and some others have the impression the UK economy is doing good solely because of the EU trade or anything else then you are wrong.

Richard, Hannover,

It was the Americans who first demonstrated to the British Redcoats under General Cornwallis the hazards of retreat. It's an enclave called Yorktown. As to the US entry in WWI -- was not WWI started by the assassination of some minor member of a now forgotten royalty? Hardly an American concern.

As to WWII - those U-Boats were fought with the 50 US destroyers provided to our British friends under Lendlease. Just part of the help provided prior Pearl Harbor.

THe British oficer who talks about Basra be one of the worst blunders need to review his own history - Gallipoli and the Marne come to mind.
Just thought you would like to know.

DE Mosman, Richmond, VA, USA

I do not agree with the war in Iraq. That said however, I believe we have made a mistake in not putting the heat on Iran. It has been no secret that they have been behind much of the insurgency, so why not heat them up?

We could take out the electrical and water infrastructure of say.... Tehran. Make them think (and know) that the next visit will not be worth their involvement in killing our troops. You can't be scared about destabilizing a region that is already destabilized.

In fact, perhaps an unthinkable response to Iran may actually give any other country over there pause as to whether supporting terrorism is good for their future.

M.J., Iowa, U.S.A.

What a digraceful episode of British history, where is the fight shown as recently as 1982 in the Falklands, when Britain amazed the world with its brilliant victory in the South Atlantic, sadly a long time ago now that we are ruled by England-hating
Communists, the only way out for Britain is to become the 51st State of a great country, the USA, bring back Maggie!

Ian, England,

invading iraq was on britain's decision.
but retreating will be on the militia's term

taz, london,

I have just spent some time reading through the comments left here and I am really saddened. Listening to most comments left here it seems that no one really grasps the situation in Iraq.
We should never have gone in, in the first place, we should never have dismantled the Iraqi Civil Service. Categories of errors, criminal errors. However whats done is done. We now face the greatest crisis facing the world since WW2. Sniping at each other and declaiming people as cowards, or indeed war mongers is not only stupid, its counterproductive.
We need to find a political solution to Iraq, by involving the world community, and indeed Iran and Syria. Every second we procrastinate and snipe at each other, it means more dead, Iraqis, Americans and Brits alike.
We need to stop trying to fight wars on abstract ideas... like 'terrorism' all we have done is make it worse. Freedom is caught and not taught.

Dan Price, Wirral, UK

"The coalition has maintained its offensive focus in the face of what we regard as a strategically and operationally insignificant surge of attacks."
Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, United States Department of Defense, Central Command, Iraq, November 3, 2003

"As the President has said, we’re taking this fight to the enemy. We’re bringing in additional international support and most important of all we have steadily growing numbers of Iraqis fighting alongside us, for a free Iraq. We are getting the job done despite the desperate acts of a dying regime of criminals."
Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Sunday, October 26, 2003

Ronnie, PARIS, FRANCE

The extraordinary thing about the conclusion to this sorry affair is it is proving once and for all that the US and UK are actually enemies and not friends.

All the false impressions of the post-WWII world are being washed away.

M, London, England

OK so Japan, leaves, Italy leaves, Spain leaves, Netherlands leaves etc etc and they just leave, Britain leaves and the US is hoping for an embaressing fighting withdrawl,

We went in to support the US and now we are insultted, sorry but this was a US war you turned up 3 years late for WWI and WWII so we are just getting out of this one 3 years early.

It was a US war which everyone else were sold the adults at the Pentagon had a post war plan. Well it turned out there was no post war plan, all external advice was ignored and the zealots of the CPA were more worried about the election timetable in the US in 2003-4 than the reality on the ground.

Dan, Oxford, UK

It seems the Americans are angere at the British because now they would have to go into Basra. Lets see how great a job they can do. I read articles where American generals and think tank people say the British are not fighting in Basra.

What annoys me off is in ww1 and 2 the Americans sat on the side line for years while the UK and rest of the world were fighting the war. Now they want the UK to help them out.

Chris, Victoria, Canada

It is all just a big freaking mess. If our withdrawal from Basra is going to be a mess with 6,000 troops, how are the spams going to withdraw over over 100,000 troops from Baghdad? With all guns blazing i would imagine.....

We shouldn't have gone to Iraq and certainly shouldn't have went into Afghanistan.

Crana, Raleigh, usa

The MoD said the British were not heading for defeat. “Although the militias are trying to claim credit for ‘driving us out’, they are failing"

They drove them out of Amara, they are currently driving them from Basra Palace, and soon they will drive them from the Airport.

However, this situation holds far more serious implications than simply facing an “ugly and embarrassing” retreat.. This route south is the same used to resupply the entire armies to the north - Cause problems there and you create headaches at all points downstream.. If the Mehdi have their wits about them, they will seriously rough up the armoured elements forced to withdraw by road to Kuwait or Umm Qasr

Its all very well to hear senior officers sneer at the incapability of the Insurgency.. Ultimately it will be actions that count, not words... Look to the example of Hezbollah defeating the Israelis in Lebanon last summer.. Time will show who shall be defeated - David or Goliath. It may yet be worse than Saigon

Andy, Dublin, Europe

Britian should concentrate on becoming a full member STATE of the E.U. The E.U. foreign minister could then demand that the STATE of Britian leave Iraq thus saving Britian any embarrassment of cut and running.

Jay, Dixie, U.S.,S.C.

Good thing Harry didn't go to Iraq to come fleeing back, defeated by his own people's lack of support in the UK - mesmerised by a media critical of the war

chris, dubai, uae

Nobody can surrender fast enough for "OLD EUROPE"

Richard, Soap Lake, USA

Send in the Full SAS group and Paras , stop holding back , stop fighting with one hand tied behind your back. The Iraquis are COWARDS, they only attack with car bombs or from Moques , stop fighting in a civilzed fashion, give them as good as they give. We know where the Bad guys are , go after them and take no prisoners . God save the Queen.

Jerry McCullough, St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

Stuart little, your cliche-ridden critique is quite amusing; yes, little Britain should cut all ties with the USA and make a go of it alone...

Paul Kelley, Columbia, SC, USA

As an ex British infantryman who served for 26 years it makes
me sad, and rather annoyed, to read some of the comments regarding the British Troops. Who stood by the side of the US when others remained on the sideline?
Certain people seem to take delight in demising the capability of our forces when in fact it is the politicians who should be receiving the brunt of such comments.
I agree that the situation in Basra gives cause for concern and it has been made so much worse by politicians indicating the possibility of a withdrawal.
The British Army, especially the infantry, do not have sufficient troops to sustain indefinately operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, we are in Afghanistan as one of the main contributors to the operations there, along with the US and Canadians.
At a time when our committments have increased the government cut four battalions of infantry. Does that make sense?
So please, whatever happens, don't blame the troops on the ground, support them instead.

Alan , Derby, England

So much for our political leadership! Even I knew this was an unwise war which had very little to do with the real war against the Jihadists. If we had concentrated our firepower on Afghanistan, we'd have won that war and hanged bin Laden and Sheik Omar, and got out with a lot of prestige! GW and Ramsfeld appear like they never read military history, where one of the great lessons is never to overextend your army. Hilter learned that the hard way when he extended the war to Russia!

Charles K., Bristol, UK

Britain, its armed services and its people have been betrayed, dumbed down and abused at every opportunity by a government unfit to run a tea shop. The political elite who have systematically dismantled and erased the history off this once great country will have a lot to answer to when the worm turns and we demand our own country and culture back. Iraq will look like a stroll in the park compared to what's coming here, weve had enough Brown.

Steve P, Leeds, England

I can’t believe the arrogance of the Americans on this thread! We’ve been put in this situation by your over the top policing. I’m a serviceman who’s seen it first hand; your day to day handling of the public was abysmal.

No wonder we’re now in this situation.

Believe me, your military will be running with its tail between its legs. It’s only a matter of time before you pull-out and admit defeat. What a truly excellent ally you have been!

Roger, Staffs, England

Really good to read such educated comments from our American cousin Bill. I am glad the free world is safe in the hands of such a voter. Relief all round. Following his encouragement, maybe we should stay. I think his arguments are compelling. I cannot fault his logic. We must be wrong. Guess us Brits can't think for ourselves after all. And it's confirmed by Srgt Fury. Naughty Britain. Guess we will have to try harder next time.

Andy, London,

Lets all stop with the military show boating. The war on Iraq was misjudged in so many ways. The reasons for the invasion was appalling and has lead to the exacerbation on the so called "islamic" based terrorism, (islam is a religion of peace - but im no expert) loss of troops on all sides and the loss of thousands of innocent lives.

It is of a serious concern when withdrawing from any combat zone. There will without doubt be vulnerabilities during the procedure (oversights included) that may or may not lead to loss of innocent and military lives. The US and her troops will without doubt face the same dlilemma (if not more dangers) when they leave. This is due to their large numbers of troops in Iraq and the hatred that extremists have of them.

I hope that the whole of the middle east is not destablished again during the withdrawal. Iraq od course will be unstable for decades to come i.e civil war(s) and will lead to increase in oil prices but also loss of lives - yet again

YMW, London,

Before you Yanks start mouthing off about your great gung ho soldiers put down your comic books and your Hollywood movies and get in the real world or have you forgot how ignominiousily you had to leave Viet Nam,in saying I pay tribute to thousands of brave G.I.'s who have died for their country.

Jack Reynolds, Algarve, Portugal

If the British people had their way we would not have been involved in this mis-guided fiasco in the first place. A cursory knowledge of World history is enough to understand that you cannot walk into other people's countries and simply takeover, they don't want you or your culture there. The British government's failing in this matter is blindly following the U.S. on a plundering raid for Iraqui oil and massive arms orders for U.S. arms manufacturers paid for by the taxpayer. whoever got in the way got trampled on.

ADScott, Bangkok, Thailand

So much for the Labour Party's glorious war. It has cost Britain dearly.

Doug, Glasgow,

Kirk - any'thing'? These are human beings you're talking about you know. And I'm really unpleasantly unsurprised to find that (most of) the Americans on here sound like out and out fascists. Oh, and Ron...not 'the brits'...'some brits'....myself and millions of others didn't, don't and never will stand shoulder to shoulder with the US in this or any of its other imperialist, oil grabbing missions.

James, London,

Richard L, 80% of USA is bowing to religion and don't have the brains to figure out that the God and Jesus are Myths and man made.

Dave Madley, Alicante, Spain

The war is unwinnable because the objectives are not just military and not clearly defined. No matter what British forces do in Irak, it will be the wrong thing. Best to get out as fast as possible.

jimbo, Oslo, Norway

Oh dear - all the true sentiments of our erstwhile friends & Allies are emerging now. First we are fighting the Iraqis/Islamists and now it seems we have an enemy within - Americans! How sad to see you all gloating, no doubt you can't wait for us to have 'our Vietnam'! I am ex-UK Military staff officer. We were stunned when we were informed of the plan to invade Iraq. Every one of us predicted that this was a doomed military operation and that it would end in defeat. So be it. But at least we turned up. By the way Yanks - you ain't go out yet yourselves. I suggest you keep the smug smirks of your faces until you actually achieve that. And finally, if you think you can export 'Freedom' using bombs and bullets - then do please get someone with at least half a brain to replace GB.

38yearsman&boy, Sarlat, France

Invading Iraq will prove to be the worst political and military blunder of both the USA and the UK. The whole world knew that the WoMD excuse was fake and it has been proved so. For some reason the governments of both countries seemed to believe that Iraq would be a piece of cake but instead it has become a new Vietnam for both countries.

But the ripple from this bomb of a blunder has yet to be experienced. The USA has its foreign relations and policy image to repair while the UK will experience more terrorist attacks from the fanatic islamists brewing from within which will make the UK an islamist country soon.

The Islamist militants will make sure that the retreat will be a disaster like the invasion and occupation and it will be ungly. If the soldiers were truly the best in world then the situation wouldnt have reached this point. Political leadership blunders will also contribute to the upcoming defeat.

Israel has learned from its Lebanon war. You havent, and never will.

Andreas Andreou, Nottingham, UK

The UK has far more experience in these situations. This is not the first time we have been in Iraq. Americans themselves were supposed to be out if Iraq by now. The American public is in a very ugly mood over the refusal of the US adminstration to withdraw their troops.

Mike, Sacramento, USA

USA getting their own back for Wilson and defeat in Vietnam.
They are backing Bony against Wellington and Nelson with all the low class RC murdering the aristocrats and destroying men for the gross Shiva that destroyed Europe last century and reduced the Earth to a 3rd world + liberal mess with gross interventionism and and permanent military gross overkill. All in all a very bad prognosis.
It is amazing what the gross defamation tricks can cause as the perpetrators go psychiatric and get promotions for skills with Poisons and drugs.
For the scumbags the emigrants from Europe were and the nastiness in communications it shows little value for us and a lot for the frogs and anti-Semitic Muslim and RC.
Blair and his French/ USA head of state style got out easy! Modern Russia and the Lucas industries all in same post revolution, murderous set with little of our side and the better trends that were our system before the superpower bad ethics insidiously destroy our victories..

Dr MI Barton MA. MBA.PhD, Oxon., UK

Richard, if views like yours prevail the USA will be stuck in a long Vietnam style war, ending in an even more humiliating withdrawal some years in the future. The only difference between the US and the UK experience will be that many more thousands of US lives will have been lost without achieving anything. At least early withdrawal avoids this.

David, Harpenden, UK

We have been here before, Vietnam, Korea, Mogadishu have we not.
It requires more skill and guts to know when to give in that destroy lives on a unachievable task. a skill most military have but politicians definitely do not.
Gandhi said that thousands of British cannot suppress millions of Indians same here.

Dave Madley, Alicante, Spain

Ian and ROn, USA, thx for your comments, cos there's no denying the fact that it looks like the Brit Army's lost. As you say, it's down to the politicians in the UK not giving enough support to the campaign after the initial euphoria of victory. The place should have been flooded with troops.

I also think the senior officers of the Army will have to look at their tactics - I just hope they weren't stuck in the mindset of using the NI model when it's so obviously different in Iraq.

Chris, Northampton,

why not send Tony and John, the joint architects of the invasion? Irquis don't know what to do with them as they are no good for anything.

rao , uk, uk

The simplistic american views set out here are a sick disgrace. They have no idea what its like to deal with 30 years of terrorism (most of it backed by US money), they have the navel gazing attitude of school children. Their idea of world polatics is to send young men from poor backgrounds into a situation their country has no idea about and lacks any civil understanding of culture (vietnam for example). Your own country is an absolute mess, look at the poverty and injustice in the wake of New Orleans (its practically third world). And you then have the adacity to have a go at our military when yours is in a shambles and spends its time shooting at its own troops, rampaging through towns with a cowboy attitude.

I'm proud to be british and feel we should cut all ties with these simple minded lunatics from across the atlantic.

stuart , london,

Its true we should now pull out of Basra and let the Iraqi's sort it out.
...but we should be heading for Iran not Kuwait.

Simon, Carrick, Antrim

Unfortunately we were led into something that is totally morally wrong by arrogant and unwise men - doesn't sound like the scenario for a glorious exit - it's awful for the soldiers, who are blameless in this; they have been betrayed - a betrayal of trust carried out by this government, and Tony Blair in particular - a illegal war built on lies and executed with a trigger happy and callous ally.

Andy, London, UK

The British Army is more than capable of defeating the terrorists in Basra, at least in the short term. However, the useless Des Browne and his ministers do not have the political will to support our soldiers as required.

Pete, Lincoln, England

education education education yes mr bliar you and yours have been taught a lesson,a lesson from a 100 years ago, some types never learn,particularly when they dont have to live with the failure.

michael joseph heavey, cahersiveen/adams town, madness

Dear Martin
It is an embarrassment for the military - but the real shame is with the politicians who put British, American and other service men and women into Iraq based on lies and with a flawed belief that everybody would welcome them. It's a sad reflection that you feel you can poke fun when people are dying (including far more than when Saddam was alive unfortunately possibly)
Bush and Blair have taken our troops into the abyss. History shows us that occupation of any nature leads to some form of rebellion be it violent or political (your own history for example) We really did screw up - our actions seem to have had a galvanizing effect and no doubt increased the likelihood of further and more devastating terrorist acts , not the opposite. The US economy is in disarray, it's political and military dominance is dwindling - for what? Fundamental Christianity? Fear? Oil? who can say...
Reflect on your comments and show some humility Martin - now is not the time for cheap jibes

Des O'Connor, Lichfield, UK

To most of the American commentators - you disgust me with your cheap gibes. My husband is in Iraq, and the British Army are doing the best job they can under increasingly difficult circumstances. They are professional and committed, whilst the general perception of your forces seems to be that they are trigger happy 'masters of the universe' who behave like they are in some Hollywood movie. It is so easy to be rude from your armchair ...and you wonder why the world hates you!

Clair, Tidworth, UK

Of course they are driving the British out, just as they will drive out the Americans. Trying to save face may play well with an American audience but will not change perceptions in the middle east (may come as a surprise to some but Arabs and Iranians are not glued to Fix News).

Smith, Sydney,

Brits should remember these comments from these moronic americans. the brits and aussies have supported them and now george w. has blown it there is insults. tell that to the brits and iraqi civilians toasted by gung ho yanks in gunships.

o bown, newcastle, au

So, the US Military Adviser in Iraq is correct is he? It will be an absolute first for him then as we must presume that he is largely responsible for the entire mess going on there now. Of course it is going to be a disaster. We in the UK military predicted it would be thus as soon as we heard about the original invasion plan. Beating Iraq was simple, but we never understood how we were going to get out again! Al Jazeera will portray it as a rout of the British and we will call it a difficult tactical withdrawal. either way we lose and it was never going to be anything else. What a shame that so many Americans on this site appear to awaiting a 'Brits' Vietnam' with so much satisfaction. Some friends and Allies you turned out to be.

38yearsman&boy, Sarlat, France

Retreat?

what else can a army expect to do when ruled by a bunch of Marxist Cowards.in whitehall, who deny them the right arms veacles.

A Army which have to share body armour .and whos boots melt and rifles jam.

A govenment who spend millions building new asylum centres

george deighton, london, uk

Small John..nope, not advocating that..just want to ensure the safety of our forces..I have a son and nephew in the RAF. Don't you believe that they deserve to be protected?

Ron + Ian..thanks for sticking with the UK forces..you are right..they are some of the finest in the world..but once again we've been let down by the MoD, poor political leadership, lack of funding and another conflict in Afghanistan, where I might add we can actually engage the enemy in the open field.

Richard L...If you Yanks cannot keep control of Baghdad with 160,000 men what chance less than 6,000 in Basra?..Not sure why you think we need your marines to hold our sorry end up...Is it because we were there to bolster YOU when we went into Iraq and Afghanistan?..Talk about standing side by side with our Allies..we were there when nobody else was interested. Just remember that. Iraq now needs to be left alone to find itself, our forces there are only as a diversion for the insurgencey.

kirk, Rotherham, UK

To Richard L., El Cajon, California and Ian Turner, Austin, Texas, USA, this is your war (USA) and the Brits are just coalition troops doing what they are told. You justified this war with lies, started it without thinking and had no plan of what to do other that invade shoot and then eliminate Saddam.

For that country you have done more harm than Saddam and the consequences will last far after every invading troop is kicked out. You learned nothing from Vietnam or from history.

Invading a country is simple, keeping it afterwards is very very difficulty and as far as I can see from history has rarely succeeded. Your leaders should read more.

Joseph Kellie, Edinburgh, Scotland

This is what it has come to, a once proud God fearing
nation with a great military tradition, first kicks christianity into touch and replaces it with a feminised
society. The results of all this could well be further
humiliation. I grew up in a beautiful proud England,
where has that great nation gone?

Philip, Dorset, England

Saddam Hussein, whatever his faults, was the legally elected President of Iraq, and had the country under control, before Britain and America tore up the UN Charter and invaded without a Security Council mandate. However, George Bush Jnr, and most of his supporters on this thread, are still living in the Wild West, where documents such as the UN Charter don't count for anything, and gun-law prevails. Well, Bush has made the mess that is now Iraq, and he will have to stay and see it through, even if his poodle Blair has quit.

Edmund Burke, Kingston upon Thames, England

The troops cannot remain there at their current strength of numbers, and they cannot stop the rival militias fighting each other, therefore their presence no longer serves any purpose apart from traget practice for the shia groups in the area.

The US will not allow this to become a rout, they will have to deploy to the airport before we decamp to the port, and most troops will probably fly out, not fight a rearguard action, this article does sound like Normandy, which it is not, why scare up people with family over there.

The Iranians will keep up the pressure, the US will not want us to go, this is PM Browns first real test, will he listen to his Generals, or the US politicians.

Steve , Baghdad,

We saved your a** in world war II...again, we may have to save your a** from Jihadists, whilst escaping out of Basra. What else is new?

Bill, Texas, USA

Cluck! Cluck! We Canadians saved you wimps in WW1 & WW2! You're gonna bow down to Islam soon too! Do you really expect us to save you again? You're lead by cowards!

Sgt. Fury, Vancouver, British Columbia

What do they mean "image of a British defeat"? This isn't an image, this is the real thing.

Richard Cheeseman, Wellington, New Zealand

The utter stupidity of the Iraq venture grows more clearly each day. I feel a tremendous depth of sympathy for the service personnel who have been put in such an appalling position by their government. Surely Blair has to answer for this at some point ? Hopefully the withdrawal will not be like the US withdrawal from Saigon.....

richard drysdale, york, uk

Actually, KRK, why don't we just nuke the whole country then there'll be a much bigger exclusion zone? That'd work eh?

Scheeeeshhh.

Jeremy Poynton, Fromeville, 51st State

Withdrawel from Iraq should be ugly and embarrasing. The UK deserves to be humiliated and defeated as does the US.

phil Greene, houston, Tx

Don't be so smug Martin, it's the United States who are next inline to withdraw!

Adrian, Hartlepool, UK

It has already been revealed in U.S. media that the so-called Petraeus Report will actually be written by the White House. That means that it will be written with a view to bolstering the Republican chances in the 2008 election. I would say to the American gloater that at least the British haven't yet sunk to the American level of deceit.

akai ringo, Tokyo,

Since you Brits have lost your nerve it will require the USA to save your sorry ass. No disrespect to your soldiers as men; they're some of the best in the world, but their countrymen and leaders are dhimmis-in-waiting. You'll all be bowing to Mecca in 20 years.

For now, I'd Imagine Gen. Petraeus and LTC Kilcullen wouldn't want any MNF forces to get their clocks cleaned by Iranian thugs. They'll probably send in the Marines to escort your sad little Sheilas onto their boats and wave them off to sea.

It's pretty much just the Yanks and Aussies holding up the English end now isn't it?

Richard L., El Cajon, California

If the British military is forced to retreat from Iraq, it is the fault of miserable political leadership and not the capability of the soldiers. You've been attacked on your home soil, and yet have learned nothing from the experience. They are coming for you whether you like it or not. Let your military fight these primitive tribesmen and show them what it means to tangle with Great Britain. Leave on your own terms, when your ready, without the appearance of being chased out. Great Britain has lost a great deal of prestige in the Arab world due to the Iranian affair. If you leave Iraq under these circumstances it will only sink further, at your peril. Your soldiers are some of the most capable on the planet, for God sakes let them fight ! Don't make excuses, don't blame G.W., don't let politics destroy Great Britain. Your military has the capacity to reclaim the upper hand around Basra, do it while you still can. Fight in Iraq or fight on your home soil, but fight you must.

Ian Turner, Austin, Texas, USA

At least the Brits stood sholder to sholder with us. If it their decision to leave Iraq, then we owe them much gratitude for their assistance in a very difficult type of war. I don't believe any of the British actually feel this is the last they will ever have to deal with the Jihadists. May even be in their own neighborhoods.

Ron, Pine, Arizona USA

If Britain's decisions over Iraq are really independent from the US's decisions over this subject, why has it to wait for the following US General Petraeus"s September report to take any action at all?

Questioner, Petrópolis, Brazil - Rio de Janeiro

This just shows that before you invade a country, you need to have a very good plan for getting out, the getting in was easy.
For me, it just cements my view that we were both wrong and mad for going there in the first place.
Now our troops have become the meat in the middle of a situation beyond their control.
Pull them all out TODAY!

Shaun Clifford, Perth, Western Australia

First the 15 in the boarding party, now this. Britons won't be able to tell French jokes anymore!!

Martin, Boise, USA

Quite simple..if the UK forces move back to a single base they need to set up an exclusion zone...wipe out anything within a 30 mile radius.

kirk, Rotherham, UK