Tim Reid in Washington
Win Sky+HD for a year and a trip to Barcelona

The Middle East would face a generation of bloodshed and dangerous upheaval if the US quit Iraq in haste, President Bush gave warning yesterday.
Mr Bush invoked Vietnam, and the chaos in SouthEast Asia after the American military’s withdrawal, to argue that the US must remain in Iraq until the country is stable.
But he insisted that the US flight from Saigon in 1975 and the suffering of millions in Vietnam and Cambodia that followed had critical lessons for Iraq and the Middle East today.
“Then, as now, people argued that the real problem was America’s presence and that if we would just withdraw, the killing would end,” Mr Bush said of the build up of opposition to the Vietnam War.

“The world would learn just how costly these misimpressions would be. In Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge began a murderous rule in which hundreds of thousands of Cambodians died by starvation, torture or execution.
“In Vietnam, former American allies, government workers, intellectuals and businessmen were sent off to prison camps, where tens of thousands perished.”
He added: “One unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America’s withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like ‘boat people’, ‘reeducation camps’ and ‘killing fields’.”
After four years of having Vietnam used against him by critics of the Iraq war with a very different comparison – that of an unwin-nable quagmire – Mr Bush sought to turn conventional historical wisdom on its head by arguing, in effect, that America might have prevailed in Vietnam had US troops stayed.
The historical parallel was condemned by critics as a disturbing distortion of history.
Mr Bush was laying the ground for the pivotal progress report to be delivered to Congress on September 11 by General David Petraeus, the US ground commander in Iraq. General Petraeus is expected to ask for more time for the surge to work, but is also expect to signal the start of a US troop drawdown next spring.
Mr Bush spoke after 14 US soldiers were killed when their Black-hawk helicopter crashed during a predawn flight in northern Iraq, the most deadly such accident in two years. The Pentagon said the tragedy was caused by mechanical failure, not enemy fire. US military losses in Iraq are now 3,721. Last night at least 45 people were killed and 80 injured in a suicide bomb attack in northern Iraq Mr Bush, addressing the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Kansas City, made clear that he will give General Petraeus as much time as he needs. Citing recent military gains in Iraq, Mr Bush, in a direct challenge to antiwar Democrats and wavering Republicans, asked: “As [US troops] take the initiative from the enemy, they have one question: will their elected leaders in Washington pull the rug out from under them just as they are gaining momentum and changing the dynamic on the ground in Iraq? My answer is clear: we will support our troops, we will support our commanders, and we will give them everything they need to succeed.”
White House strategists believe that Mr Bush will continue to hold enough votes on Capitol Hill to block efforts to cut short the “surge”. Mr Bush said there was another lesson from America’s withdrawal from Vietnam – statements from the al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri that it was a sign of America’s weakness and its lack of stomach for today’s fight against terrorism. Mr Bush said: “If we were to abandon the Iraqi people, the terrorists would be emboldened. Unlike in Vietnam, if we were to withdraw before the job was done, this enemy would follow us home.”
Mr Bush also cited South Korea and Japan in his call to stand firm in Iraq. He said many in Washington after World War II believed Japan was incapable of embracing democracy and that the Korean War was a worthless struggle. “The advance of freedom in these lands should give us confidence that the hard work we are doing in the Middle East can have the same results we have seen in Asia – if we show the same perseverance and sense of purpose.”
Joseph Biden, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Foreign relations Committee, said: “The only relevant analogy of Vietnam to Iraq is this: in Iraq, just as we did in Vietnam, we are clinging to a central government that does not and will not enjoy the support of the people.”
Explore your passion for food with the delights of Thai, Indian & Chinese cooking
In our new series, Tony Hawks takes a dry, wry look at modern life - junk mail, interminable meetings and snooty sales assistants
Read the training tips and advice that helped our London Triathletes
Read our exclusive 100 Years of Fleming and Bond interactive timeline, packed with original Times articles and reviews
The latest travel news plus the best hotels and gadgets for business travellers
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles
2007
£30,000
2006
£14,337
2008
£39,937
Great car insurance deals online
c.£75,000
GlosFirstmeansbusiness
Gloucestershire
£32,795 - £41,545
Universitry of Southampton
Southampton
£
£32,795 - £41,545
Universitry of Southampton
Southampton
Competitive Package
Npower
West Midlands
1 & 2 Bed apartments
From £249,995
Great Investment, River Views
Great Dubai Investment Opportunities
from £89,950
low-cost ownership homes in London
Las Vegas SALE!
£POA
With Ramblers Worldwide Holidays!
£POA
List your property with two leading travel websites
£POA
Great travel insurance deals online
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times. Globrix Property Search - find property for sale and rent in the UK. Milkround Job Search - for graduate careers in the UK. Visit our classified services and find jobs, used cars, property or holidays. Use our dating service, read our births, marriages and deaths announcements, or place your advertisement.
Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
A comparison that the Bush administration (and disapointingly few candidates for next year's Presiential election as well) seem to have very little desire to discuss with the U.S. media seems to be that the the Eisenhower adminstration first sent U.S. troops into Vietnam in 1954 without any authorisation, permission or consultation whatsoever from the United Nations. At no time in the 21 year interval between 1954 when the U.S. first entered into South Vietnam until the last U.S. military personnel were ordered to exit in April of 1975 were any of the branches of the United Nations involved in any capacity in terms of consultation, negotiations towards a settlement or even declaring the illegality of the war from the perspective of numerous violations of international law-
Do people who watched President Bush's speech on this past Wednesday (08/22/07) evening remember when the phrases "unwinnable at any cost" and "Never Again" were first introduced into our vocabulary?
Scott Benowitz, Rye, New York, U.S.A.
We created Pol-Pot? Who in fact removed and exiled him, I'll leave that unanswered being the erudite of the European elite surly know. It's odd, in a country where 80% of the land is owned by 20% of the people that you blue-bloods have such an equanimous feeling for Vietnam's "democracy' They are a declared socialist country that is just beginning to realize that its citizens yearn for what the South believed in. You have no memory of the Cold War? Who fought for the no nonsense policy of stopping the proliferation of communism, a stated National goal. We as well as our Australian, (and at the time British) allies stopped that Korean disaster, do you know that cannibalism is a crime in North Korea because they try to sell it as pork, punishable by death. The Berlin Wall, damn, you guys certainly cared in WW2 to supply Berlin, and if the same were true today? What of the once great British Empire my Country was born from? What have you morphed into?
Travis bickle, NY, NY, USA
Isn't it time Bush concentrated on AMERICAN issues? He is after all, elected solely as President of United States of AMERICA, not of Vietnam, nor Afghanistan, and certainly not Iraq.
American's should beware their moment of triumphalism, when you are feeling fragile and exposed, these people your government terrorises will not show you any mercy. And now why should they?
If American's really are sick of George Dubyah... you will have to try harder than just showing votes of No Confidence in Polls. It is time he was brought to justice for the murdering of over 700,000 people. Whose slaughter and blood shed covers the hands of every American who is eligible to vote or stand up for the true democratic rights of humanity. I thought that freedom and human rights were the basis of this once great nation. I feel very very sorry for the future of your children, and the same goes for the future generations of British children too.
David Jones, Canterbury, UK
The problem isnt Iraq, it isnt Al Qaida, the problem is George W Bush. By continually characterising the situation in Iraq as a Win or Lose situation for the US, Bush is ensuring it is a lose situation. Of course he does this bolster support at home, but his rhetoric also bolsters opposition abroad, who can forget his "bring it on challenge", or his statement that he would rather fight Al Qida in Iraq. This rhetoric doesn't help the Iraqis, it results in greater violence and therefore inevitably lower support in the US. A wiser policitian would characterise the situation as the US helping the country to settle down with the US having no stake in the outcome other than peace. The US is being led down the path to a defeat by the buffoon who designed the rules of the game, a game in which has no winning move for the US.
John W, Oldham,
The ultimate and most shameless perversion of a fact established over 30 years back , that the US had to flee like beaten dogs because all their technology and manpower could not prevail among an alien people in their own country. As for Cambodia, if the US had not engineered the first coup against Sihanouk, and not bombed the country gratuitously during the Vietnam war, it is less than likely that Pol Pot would ever have achieved the absolute power he did. Finally, the South Vietnamese left behind by the US were a bigger indictment of US chicanery than of Vietnamese vengefulness. In fact, that country has not only remained more peacefully democratic but also conspicuously forgiving of US depradations (no doubt partly mollified by the sincere efforts of many former GIs to make personal and private reparations).
Monty Gosse, Calcutta, India
I see only Anti-Bush views are printed - how very liberal!
Janel, W.Washington, USA
Perhaps another brain faded spin from a guy who is not smart enough to operate a machine war situation with machines, technologic prowess, and simple "Hold & Fold" strategies burdened upon the enemy.
Wahington dc can tend to operate like it's the kromagnum age rather than the 21st century.
Iraq simply happens to be the most invisible current example.
Mark Wright, Magic Valley, USA/NM
Bush and his cronies say that we Americans who disagree with him are unpatriotic. It's the opposite. I loathe him and his awful war because I love my country. Reading these comments, I am infuriated and ashamed to see the damage he has done to America, especially with our friends in Europe. I am ashamed of all the deaths. Wars should be fought only when absolutely necessary, and Iraq is, unfortunately, an arrogant war of choice. I think that Americans will come to view these years as a very bleak and regrettable time in our history.
Chris, Rochester, Michigan, USA
Mr Bush seems to be leaving on another planet, perhaps the Moon... His remarks about Vietnam & Cambodia reveals just how ignorant they are...
Vladimir, Milton Keans, UK
To " Me, Manchester"
You should study finnish history again from 1940. (If you ever did?) No hard feelings.
Helena Mathys, Hameenlinna, Finland
Hi,
i'm 18 and i am french, i think that this war is only for the Oil of Irack. The President prefers said that he wanted to save iraquish people, but first he sould save amercian people who don't have anything to eat.
Frasse , Marseille ( France),
ultimately, this parallel is sad as it is historically inappropriate and it fels like one more attempt to shift public attention to the events, which are clearly exposing the consequencies of an unlawful invasion of a foreign country for basic businness gains.
I am just sory for the families of those perishing for the greed of a small few.
Andrea da londra, Londra, United Kingdom
There still seems to be far too much beating around the bush as to why the US and UK had to go to war in Iraq in 2003.
It would be simpler if we could now for the first time be told the truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth ,as to what this whole Middle East fiasco has really been all about.
At then we would know whether or not the troops need to stay there.
Michael Blatchford, Bath, UK
Bush seem to know a lot of history.
Ha! then why he brought the US to the war?
d, sprinfell,
It appears to me that this mental midget (W) missed out on a lot more than being in danger when he managed to avoid service during the Viet Nam conflict. I suppose that was during the time when he was 'under the influence' more than not.
To me, the lesson we should have learned was not to get involved in quagmires like this in the first place. I hearken to a phrase popular among those of us who served in the theater:
We, the unwilling, led by the unqualified, to do the impossible for the ungrateful....
Here we are again. Support our troops in the best way possible-bring them home
David Kimmel, Bourbonnais, IL
to Deodhar
I think this statement means that countries which are incapable of embracing democracy must be bombed by A-bomb first, just for better compliancy. I shouldn't be wondered if Bush will give such argument next to justify Iraq intervention.
Anton, Ryazan, Russia
ok,so let the us army stay in irak as long as it stayed in vietnam.now that's a wise decision...
haly, petroville,
President Bush is right on the parallels of Vietnam and Iraq......but for all of the wrong reasons.
I am more deeply saddened that unlike the era of the 60's and 70's, the current generations of Americans are passive at a time when our government has been hijacked, and the need for patriots has never been greater.
At what point, I wonder, will the American people awake to the dangers Bush has placed our country in? The next election will not help....It is more of the same, just different clothing.
m.J., Iowa, U.S.A.
Wasn't it Winston Churchill (Bush's idol) who said that the Americans can be trusted to do the right thing after all other avenues had been exhausted?
They have proved time and time agin that they cannot be trusted with the Globe. I hate to say this but no wonder Al Quaida exist as they are the only ones to stand up to the Yanks.
Swinky, London, UK
Ahhhhh, good old Finland. Perhaps we should have left your world in peace (or perhaps that's pieces) in the 1940s. How's your Russian, by the way?
Me, Manchester,
Hang on. Wasnt it actually the Vietnamese that ousted Pol Pot's regime and stopped the Killing Fields?
Steve, London, England
Mr Bush also cited South Korea and Japan in his call to stand firm in Iraq. He said many in Washington after World War II believed Japan was incapable of embracing democracy and that the Korean War was a worthless struggle. âThe advance of freedom in these lands should give us confidence that the hard work we are doing in the Middle East can have the same results we have seen in Asia â if we show the same perseverance and sense of purpose."*
Does Bush really wants us to believe that the world wouldn't have experienced democracy had America not existed??
Ashish Deodhar, Mumbai, India
Well Bush has now good reasons to justify his Iraq misadventure. Bush still believes that the price is still payable by Americans to hold on to Baghdad. Even a fool could see that the Iraqi resistance is "nputdownable"
Prasanta Debnath, Tinsukia, India, Assam
I want to ask Bush, how do you define "success"? Bush says the troops on the ground is near success and must be continuously supported. But for many, we are beyond achieving "success." Many see the war as lost already... success is out of the question when the loss is at a staggering 3,721. Who gives a damn about military success if it comes at this cost? All we have now to consider is how to exit Iraq without leaving the country in turmoil. It's a paramount task, but thanks to the Bush administration a task that nonetheless needs to be done.
Aaron Seong, Milton, United States
to Helena,
Making a mess in one's own country is not a valuable activity. making mess in other countries is very much profitable...
Mike, Moscow,
The war on terrorism has evolved into a war between two Evils, on one side is the American Right Neocons with support of the Controllers of American Money and Media which is the Head of Evil, they controls the American Politicians and Public opinion, anyone not following the lies and opinions being put forward, and having a different view, is tarred and labeled as anti Semitic and anti American and a traitor. Over 70 percent Americans understand the dilemma they are in but are helpless in front of the power of these Evil force. The opposing Evils is Islamic Fascists Terrorists a bye product of the manipulations of the first Evil, they are hated by over 95 percent of Muslims for propagating a twisted interpretation of Islam. The only alternative left for all peace loving people in the world is to let these TWO Evils fight it out and not stop them. Once these Evils who are in a no WIN War are weakened and exhausted by this fight, we will have a better world to live.
Kamil Mian, London,UK,
Perhaps the saddest thing about Mr. Bush's remarks is that so few in the U.S. listen to him anymore. He's become an almost "non-president," more irrelevant than lame-duck.
Arthur, Boston, USA
Mr Bush seems to have got confused about what came first - the chicken or the egg...!
Rod Munch, Northampton, UK
Your article opens with the words:-
"The Middle East would face a generation of bloodshed and
dangerous upheaval if the US quit Iraq in haste" attributed to President Bush.
Just what does Bush think has been happening their these past few years as a result of US 'intervention' and other meddling in other countries' affairs?
Next time Bush is on TV spouting off, look carefully above the shoulders and head, you can definitely see the very fine strings being pulled.
karlo, Northwich, Cheshire
Vietnam!!! An other mistake from USA. A big mistake. USA should leave the rest of the world in peace. Make a mess in your bloody country and leave us alone.
Helena Mathys, Hameenlinna, Finland