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Ireland's referendum results in full
The Irish Prime Minister was facing huge pressure from EU leaders yesterday to keep the Lisbon treaty alive but seemed at a loss to explain how it could be saved after Ireland’s “no” vote.
Brian Cowen is being urged to present a plan for reviving the treaty at the EU summit in Brussels this week, but he knows that if a second referendum were to result in failure it would bring down not only the treaty but his Government as well.
EU leaders united over the weekend to insist that Mr Cowen had to show how the treaty could be saved, possibly with a rerun of the vote next year and extra guarantees for Ireland. Signs are emerging that some EU countries would consider forging ahead in a “two-speed Europe”, leaving Ireland and others behind.
Britain will continue with its treaty ratification through Parliament this week, but it would rather see the treaty fall than go along with any two-speed plan, David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, said yesterday. Mr Miliband, who will be at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg today, said: “There can be no question of bulldozing or bamboozling or ignoring the Irish vote. In the end it is for the Irish Prime Minister to decide what his next moves are. He has got to decide whether or not to apply the last rites. That is his prerogative.”
Mr Miliband said that the idea of a two-speed Europe was “a 1990s agenda, not a 21st-century agenda”.
Two of the most vocal supporters for pushing ahead with the treaty were Jean-Claude Juncker, the Prime Minister of Luxembourg, and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German Foreign Minister. Both had been under consideration for the two big posts created by the treaty: those of EU president and EU foreign minister.
President Sarkozy of France will travel to Prague today to urge the Eurosceptic Czech Government to continue with ratification after President Klaus pronounced it dead. Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, will discuss the crisis with Donald Tusk, the Prime Minister, of Poland, where the treaty awaits ratification.
Mr Cowen admitted that he had few ideas on how to bridge the seemingly irreconcilable gulf between the Irish “no” vote and the determination among other states to ratify the treaty. “My job is to make sure that our interests are not undermined and to try to find ways forward which are not obvious to me immediately,” Mr Cowen told the state broadcaster RTE radio. “I want Europe to try to provide some of the solution as well.
“A ‘no’ vote does send us into some uncharted territory and we have to try to chart that territory and see what way forward we can achieve. Clearly, if things stay as they are, the Lisbon treaty cannot be ratified. That is the constitutional position.”
EU diplomats said that if Mr Cowen thought that the treaty could be saved, he should tell the European Council on Thursday what could be offered to Ireland in the form of extra protocols or changes. At the very least, Mr Cowen is expected to try to buy time by pledging to attend EU summits in October or December with a plan that would allow the last eight members to complete ratification.
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All the Brits who now despise Europe, where were you when Mrs Thatcher joined the European Common Market so that the ECM could save the UK from banbkrupt - which it did in fact, with enormous injections of German, French and Italian money? I didn't hear you say a word then.
Paolo, Rome, Italy
To clare, kildare, ireland -
it's notorious that no other country has ever received so much money as Ireland has from Europe. The count is to be made per person, non per nation, of course. France has ten times or more the inhabitants of Ireland!!!
Paolo, Rome, Italy
Paolo, Rome, Italy
E. Bee, Toulouse, France
Ireland has already paid back 20 billion euro. It still receives farming subsidies but now where near the amount France gets.
French farmers received 7.38 billion in subsidies in 2007, more than twice the total of the UK, Italy or Germany.
clare, kildare,
E. Bee, Toulouse, France
As France voted No in 2005 so France should leave to.
clare, kildare, ireland
You who vote no are so brave and you gave the rest of us hope for better world. Please Ireland don.t cave in to EU.
Thank You. The vote no should be counted, what was the point in voting at all.
Frances McGarraghy, Logen City, Australia
Dear Mr. Cowen,
My grandfather was Irish, his last name was Logan and they came from Cork. He was a wonderful and honorable man. If he were alive today, he would tell you to stand up to these tyrants and lead Ireland proudly against a treaty that is a foundation for a New World Order.
Betty
betty, chicago, USA
Way to go Ireland! We are PROUD of your bravery in the face of adversity and peer pressure. You alone are standing for what is right in these troubled times. Be proud of yourselves. It is a shame that the rest of Europe can't see this trap. God bless Ireland!
Doc, Arache, Canada
Perhaps the good people of Ireland have more common sense and a stiffer backbone than many of their neighbors do right now. There may be more at stake here than meets the eye. You have spoken - stay the course.
Walter V. Gilles, Nipomo, USA
manure makes a slippery slope, how it doth dash our hope.rein in the swine and let cleanliness shine.then we'll regain our grope
wnweber, birmingham, alabama usa
Possibly time to peacefully take to the streets and force our government to listen to us.
The only people who want this treaty are the politicians who are on an even bigger gravy train than our lot.
I can still remember when we had governments that listened. France and Germany want this treaty. Why?
Howard, Basildon, England
Surely it's better to declare the treaty dead, so that every nation is equal and in the same boat rather than risk the break-up of the EU completely.
The EU constitution project has failed, but the EU can still be a force for good and we all keep our sovereignty, which was the major concern.
Tim K, London, UK
What part of NO does Brussels not understand. The EU just want to push on with further integration which is clearly not wanted by the vast majority of its citizens. People voted for a Common Market, nobody ever envisaged or wanted a United States of Europe.
The Lords should halt ratification now.
roger, swindon,
Simple really.
Just change the ruling that all 27 countries governments ratify the treaty to one where all countries hold a referendum and a two thirds majority for change to the constitution holds sway.
Its a little something called democracy, also known as the will of the people.
George Ball, Diss,
It is now obvious why 26 out of 27 countries refused to give the people a vote, they were never going to accept NO in the first place. Gordon Brown's decision to carry on with the process of ratification in Britain shows nothing more than his own arrogance and his contempt for public opinion.
Les, Southport, England
So, "Two of the most vocal supporters" are also those who "had been under consideration for the two big posts created by the treaty"
Are there any more questions on motives?
Bob Evans, Anaheim, California
Why is the Irish leader under pressure? He gave his people a vote; more than can be said for the rest of Europe, and they said NO! Maybe the rest of Europe should be looking at their own situation rather than worrying about Ireland, since most polls show a majority against the treaty!.
Rod Garr, Miami, USA
"... urge the Eurosceptic Czech Government to continue with ratification after President Klaus pronounced it dead. "
Would that Gordon would pronounce it dead. Fat chance, that requires him to be decisive.
Stan(expat), USA, USA
Let's not lose hope. Nows the time for those concerned to get into some open ended speculative research, it seems to me, thus creating the time and space needed to help everyone make the most appropriate choices. One wonders if something akin to eg our NHS "Virtual" RISC could help us get thinking.
Mrs.Josephine Hyde-Hartley, Bacup, UK
The Irish voters rejected a "one-size-fits-all" document that could not get in through the front door when it was rejected by the French and Dutch. After a few changes Brussels bureaucrats tried to sneak it in through the back door as the Lisbon Treaty, helped by Brown's broken referendum promise.
Phil Linehan, Mexico City, Mexico
Mr Brown while you try and figure out why your Labour party ratings are in the toilet, maybe just maybe you might want to consider that one of the main reason this is fact is the Labour party promised to put the EU reforms to a vote.
peter andrew, montreal, canada
Miliband is evidently tone deaf. "Two speed Europe" is exactly the sound that was playing in the Irish referendum. Europe has a centre and a periphery. Any honest reading of European history confirms it. The recognition of that simple fact would save the EU from eventual disintegration.
jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/USA
Whether as a constitution or through the back door as a treaty, ordinary people vote against the treaty/constitution when asked.
Eurocrats conclude that the treaty/constituion is not at fault. In fact it's ordinary people at fault! There's arrogance and then there's Euro-arrogance.
John Goode, Welwyn Garden City, UK
I read what is happening over there and is like taking crazy pills. The Irish voted no...end of story. There is a reason the french and others didnt put it vote again...it would have been the same as last time, a no vote, so the just circle around and push forward regardles of what the people want.
Ruben, San juan, PR, USA
Labour have promised us a referendum on this.
It seems to be being ratified in the UK shortly, so they do seem to be leaving fulfilling their promise to the absolute last minute.
Where can I vote 'No' on this, and tell them to stop being so stupid?
Mike Hart, London, England
I do not envy Brian Cowen's position. There is a dire lack of understanding as to why we voted No.
Democratic accountability of this Treaty was one of the reasons for the No vote however what sort of democracy is present in the EU now when we are being bullied into changing our decision?
Helen, Dublin,
It was voted on and the vote was NO>
The EU wants to word of the voters circumvented!
EU = Trash
Jerry Scroggin, Phoenix, Arizona/USA
Cowen said "the democratic will of the people is sovereign", the Irish decided but was he lying like the rest. The attitude of the deceitful European commissioners shows they are were never democrats but still tin pot Marxists and Maoists intent on some kind of Soviet Europe.
keith bentham, wigan, uk
Brian Cowen has been qouted as saying he did not read the document. He went on to say he did not have to read it because he was foreign minister for Ireland during our presidency (when the Lisbon treaty was formulated) and he oversaw it's drafting.
martin kelly, copenhagen, denmark
Make them vote again! PLEASE! Give the Irish another referendum. Then when the no Vote is 60% make them vote again, then when the no vote is 80% make them vote again, then when the no vote is 90%, perhaps then, the arrogant EU bosses might realise that the people DO NOT WANT TOTAL INTEGRATION!
Ken Hall, Barrow-in-Furness, UK
So much for democracy then
John, Salford, England
Irish law demands that this treaty must be ratified by referendum. Any attempt by the Commision to push this through would end with a greater majority against in a second referendum. The Treaty is dead. The more the EU attempts to disguise this 'constitution', the nastier the taste.
Terry Hamblin, Bournemouth,
"The rest of the Union (including the UK) has decided on ratification by parlement [sic] that democratically speaks for the people. "
That Parliament would certainly be significantly different in composition were the Government to seek a mandate for its policy having reneged on its previous promise
James M, York,
It looks like all the other nations of Europe are just going to do to the Irish 'No' vote with exactly what they did in response to the 'No' votes from France and NL - just ignore it. Or just change the title at the top of the Constitution document and claim that it's different. Makes you weep.
Bry Barnes, Somerset, Uk
I fear us Irish have been left out to dry and absorb the scorn of bureaucratic Europe for what other leaders were too spineless to put to their people (GB NS et al).
What also concerns me is that EC is going to railroad this through anyway (regardless of our No), at least I live in a democratic IRL
Joe L, Dublin, Ireland
EU will only work worse for Britain without treaty. Slow and cumbersome, brought to grinding halt by even smallest lobby group in any country if that suits local politics. Either we leave EU and go through long, if not endless, period of extremely painful adjustment, or we go forward with a treaty.
Chris, London,
The people have their say? They've got no idea what they want, little idea of what Europe is, or the complex world evolving around it. It is the fault of politicians who only see their short term interests and our system of education, incapable of teaching our European history and our commonalities.
Sumpinein, Paris, France
Peter Goddard apparently does not understand that the UK First past the post system usually guarantees that the minority rule over the majority.
If I disagree with my elected representative he/she should LISTEN not ignore my opinion. That also is part of democracy and lacking in our EU leaders.
Nick, London, UK
The Irish have spoken! NO means NO!
Now, the EU wants a replay because they lost.
It's obvious! They don't want the gravy train to stop.
They're not thinking about you or me; just themselves. The EU is about as corrupt as it could possibly get!
Chichester was just the tip of the iceberg!
Nick, London, UK
E Bee..... How simplistic.
Perhaps the EU would refund us the 100 billion in fishing
catches from our ...yes our waters. Heres an idea 50 billion and we will call it quits......Fool
Colm O Connor, Dublin, Ireland
That's the problem with democracy, you don't always get the result you want.
Peter GODDARD, the UK has NOT decided, democratically, to ratify. We were promised a referendum, like the Irish, and didn't get it. We'd probably vote against as well.
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
Peter Goddard does not get the point. Of course national Parliaments are elected to act on behalf of their citizens. Whether they have the right to to alienate SOVEREIGNTY without seeking a specific mandate is a rather diferent matter, however.
John Punshon, Milton Keynes, England
The political "elite" are convinced they know best. Twice in recent times the people of the North East of England have been consulted on changes and given resounding "no" votes in both cases. Despite this the Regional Assembly, although unelected, and the unitary authorities, not wanted, go ahead
Ted Watt, Durham, UK
Mr Goddard, the UK parliament may speak for the British people but on this issue clearly does not represent the views of the majority of the British people. This Government was elected on a manifesto that promised a referendum. The way forward is simple, and democratic... let the people decide.
Kevin, Leeds,
This is why Euroscepticism is growing. We are denied a vote completely unless in the case of Ireland, it cannot be wriggled out of. Then when the result is not what they want, they bully and threaten in order to try and get a change of mind. So much for EuroLaws, democracy, a free union of states!
Donna Walker, Effingham, England
The rules state that the constitution HAS to be ratified by ALL member States but we push ahead regardless. The EU wonders why it is loathed - lack of transparency, undemocratic bullying, cheating on expenses and disregard for the people perhaps? NO MUST MEAN NO
Liz Brown, Montmartin en Graignes,
The Irish are allowed to say NO.....all they have to do is hand back the 40 billion Euros and get out of the EC...no one can contest such a simple analysis I hope. Yes you can say no. Now all this nonesense about democracy ! In other countries parliaments will vote. Who elected the parliament ?
E. Bee, Toulouse, France
A comment on Peter Goddard's observation:
Our parliament does not democratically speak for the nation when it comes to the European treaty.
Labour stated in its manifesto that there would be a referendum. It lied: a case of election under false pretenses.
Labour speaks for noone but itself
Sean, Surrey, UK
The Irish, quite rightly, have said No.
So drop it. Mr Cowen might be well advised to do what politicians don't appear to like doing (except when faced with the abyss of not being re-elected); listening to his own people.
How about it Brian? Got the guts to break the mould have you?
Steve, London, UK
Politicians have become so detached from democracy, that they now only give referendums when they think that they can predict the result, and then when they lose, they simply ignore them anyway. If these politicians are not very careful, a revolt will be imminent.
Matt, Napoli, Italia
Perhaps David Cameron might like to introduce a law that makes it a requirement for The Uk to be given a referndum on any changes to its constituion, the same as Ireland has? That would stop anything like the Lisbon or Mastricht treaties being sneaked through Parliament again
Luke, London, UK
How the hell can the Irish PM save the treaty - what right has he to save the treaty - when his people have rejected it?
Robert, Hull, UK
EU has got to look at the State separation from Christianity, now that Business appears to also discard "right and wrong" values. Witness the Credit Squeeze, Stock Market collapse, Property collapse. Young people of chid bearing age are up to their necks in debt. EU is rapidly ageing!
John F Higgins, Co Sligo, Ireland
Make all officials who have spoken to Leaders of Member States, asking them to force their people to accept the treaty, to take a polygraph test ensuring that no personal bribes or inducements were offered or given to accomplish their acceptances
Sceptic.
B.McCarthy, Romford, Essex
What part of NO don't these so called European Leaders understand and how many times must people vote NO before they listen to us. If Gordon Brown were man enough he would have allowed us to vote and then the Irish would not be standing alone on this issue.
DaveF, Southend on Sea,
The European would-be dictators KNOW that the people of many other countries - the UK definitely - would vote NO if given the chance. But the European Project has always been based on the principle that an unelected elite know what is best and the peasants must not be allowed to interfere.
Tony Jones, Grantham, Lincs
So yet again Brussels continues to treat the rights of people, in this case the Irish people, with contempt. They are undemocratic, corrupt and interested only in their own pension plans.
Bob Reeve, Brighton,
The EU politicians say it is unfair to the rest of the EU that such few people should decide the fate for the rest. What about giving all the others a say, that would be fair. IGive us all a referendum, then we will tell you where you can stick your Treaty/Constitution!
EU is undemocratic, England, England
EU bureacrats don't understand democracy !!!!!
ian payne, walsall,
Absolute piffle. The irish prime minister has democratically allowed his electorate to vote on a disguised constitution and they have rejected it. The only people under pressure should be the faceless jobsworth bureaucrats in Brussels and gutless politicians.
philip, Ipswich,
Nothing will stop the monster EU from eating its own children.
Victor, NW Kent, Swanley, England
The Irish have a long history of being suppressed by foreigners so it is only natural for them to be wary of them. But that does not stop them being the greatest hosts on earth. This Englishman lived there for 30 years and know full well how welcoming the Irish can be.
albert hall, hove, england
Bring in Mugabe - he knows how to ignore the electorate's wishes and shares with the unelected Brussels beaurocrats a total disdain for democracy.
Ian, Berwick, UK
The French said NO, the Dutch said No, and now the Irish have said No, yet the un-elected Elite say thats not good enough. If Europe was to embrace Democracy for all instead of stroking the ego of a few it would be more productive. Government by the people for the people is the key, understanding it will open doors.
Ian B, Reading, UK
What is the point of our Government proceed with ratification of the Lisbon treaty if the treaty is dead - thanks to the Irish 'No' vote [which I support]. What part of the No does Europe not understand. How can one advocate democracy if one disregard the voice of the people?
d, london,
In business planning and however big the project, you must be able to put a summary on one side of A4 or the project fails to get Board approval. Our Government is on its way to the knackers yard in May 2010, they don't have the authority, they should have delivered the promised Referendum period.
John Haynes, Burnham on Sea, Somerset, UK
The treaty cannot be saved. A genuine European Union can only exist when the gravy train is stopped, the unelected European Commission is scrapped and the Franco-German Axis of Hypocrisy opens its doors to migrant workers from Eastern Europe as we, the Irish and the Swedes (but no others) have done.
Paul, Coventry,
The people of Europe don't want it!
They can clearly see what it is. A Constitution which will entrench politician and bureaucrats power at the expense of the people.
The politicians just don't get it and are at risk of further alienating the people with all the dire consequences of that.
Richard, London,
How dare the EU leaders expect the Irish Prime Minister to solve their problem for them?
Charles Bockett-Pugh, Sandhurst,
HI Peter, this is the problem with majority vote, the voice of the minority state is lost. They have to do what the majority-big states says. The EU is heterogenous society, different cultures languages and social attitudes,unlike the USA which is more homogenous.
miguel vargas, London,
Well done the Irish!
There should have been a referendem in Britian, what's happened to democracy!
Chris, Rochester, UK
Perhaps, if the EU present something the people want, the result would be different. Untill that time those people offered the chance will reject this undemocratic charter.
Steve D, Rickmansworth,
This is typical of the EU and national politicians.
The people can be trusted to vote them into office but cannot be trusted when they vote against the wishes of the government.
We continue to lose democracy and freedom.
Ray Harvey, Hitchin, uk
How undemocratic can the EU possibly be? The Irish refused Nice, so the Eu sent it back - saying 'you have got it wrong'. Now they have refused Lisbon they are being asked to go back and think again. This does not bode well for democracy. I hope that Klaus and Tusk back the Irish.
Philip, Nottingham,
This is exactly why we say NO! They cannot be trusted to even uphold their own rules. Now what about those expense accounts boys..........
neil, almere, holland
Watch for a run on the Euro. The panic from the elite Eurocrats reveals the dangers that lurk with the Irish vote.
Sadly, I'm sure those who are to gain will push something through at the expense of the people who cannot vote. Hopefully government's fall because of this intransigence.
brett, Austin, USA
The rest of the Union (including the UK) has decided on ratification by parlement that democratically speaks for the people.
Whilst the sad anti-EU brigade jump with glee at Ireland's No vote they should think what democracy really is.
Majority voting prevents minorities holding up progress.
Peter GODDARD, Epsom, England, EU
What part of the word NO does he not understand?
john, norwich,
Time the Irish 'leaders' trusted the people. Don't be bullied by the Eurocrats. Now let's hope the House of Lords votes the same way - especially the Lib Dems given Clegg's comments on TV.
Ian Burgess, Bristol,
So the Irish who, because of constitutional enshrinement, have had their say and given a resounding "NO". Brian Cowen said the people "should trust their leaders". He,although PM, did not even bother to read the document; that just about sums it up. Well done the Irish for not being rail-roaded.
Herbie, London, UK