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PLANS to isolate Ireland and force the country to hold a second referendum on the Lisbon treaty by next March were discussed at a European Union meeting 10 days ago.
Minutes of the event, and of a separate dinner with the French minister for European affairs, record how key French politicians and other MEPs said that Ireland should be put in an “untenable position” by pressing Poland and the Czech Republic to ratify the treaty by December.
The minutes were made available by a high-level source who attended both events. They tally with publicly available EU minutes but include direct quotes rather than the diplomatic language of the official record.
The meeting and dinner heard how Ireland’s “intellectual mediocrity and lack of political courage” led to the rejection of the Lisbon treaty and included discussions of how to “cuddle and pamper” the Irish voter ahead of a new vote while at the same time “making pressures on them”.
The meeting between the European parliament’s committee for constitutional affairs and the European affairs committees of both the French senate and national assembly was held in Paris on October 9. It was followed by a dinner with Jean-Pierre Jouyet, the French equivalent of Dick Roche, Ireland’s EU affairs minister.
Jacques Delors, former European commission president,warned that Europe should be wary of conceding to Ireland on Lisbon and criticised the Irish government for “going solo” on the bank crisis.
The official minutes record that members of the delegation discussed “the necessity of ratifying the Lisbon treaty as soon as possible” and an anxiety that a second referendum should be held before the European elections next June. The delegates were concerned that the elections could become a proxy referendum on the treaty.
Pierre Lequiller, a French politician, said it was necessary to get the Czech Republic and Poland to ratify the treaty quickly as this would “modify the situation of Ireland”. Alain Lamassoure, a French MEP, said the Irish people should be made aware of the “consequences” of a second refusal.
Delors, according to the minutes, expressed concerns “about the price that Europe was willing to pay in order to obtain a ratification of the treaty by the Irish”. He said: “The Irish have since gone solo in the financial crisis. They must understand, however, that to be a member of the EU also includes certain demands.”
The minutes from the Sunday Times source show French politicians want Ireland to believe the EU will respect the country’s sovereignty and demands, while telling the Irish people how the other 495m Europeans are watching them and “will be really angry” if the answer is no again.
The meeting discussed the option of ensuring the next referendum in Ireland should involve a question to which the Irish could not say no.
This, according to German and French politicians, could be achieved by giving Ireland guarantees of sovereignty over issues such as neutrality and abortion.
It would then ask the Irish electorate to vote on whether or not the country’s membership of the EU was compatible with the constitution.
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No. The elected MEPs have no power to introduce a law. Only the power to SUGGEST amendments to legislation introduced by unelected Eurocrats and those amendments can be ruled invalid. They are just like an employee putting a suggestion in a suggestion box.
Unelected, Dublin, Ireland
Charles Smyth;
True, there's nothing to prevent me or any unaffiliated person from standing for election, but the chances of winning the National Lottery are vanishingly small. Should a miracle happen, the likelihood of entering "the vanguard" of change tends towards the reciprocal of infinity.
Bill Q, Derby,
Bill Q:
In spite of the EU's manifest failings, you and/or any other EU citizen are not prevented from standing for election and becoming the urocrat who is in the vanguard of making democracy work better in the EU. And may discover that you are not particularly well paid.
Charles Smyth, Belfast, Northern Ireland
Let's be clear about this - it's not the EU which is responsible for this behaviour, it's a bunch of arrogant, overpaid Eurocrats who are more concerned about their perks and priveleged positions than they are about the people whom they are meant to represent.
Bill Q, Derby,
The Times would be doing ALL Europeans a favour by publishing the comments verbatim, AND identifying the people who made them. If this is promulgated throughout the EC, we might find that some of these MEPs will be back in the job market soon, unless they decide to change the election protocols!
Bill Q, Derby,
Why do the Irish need EU beaurocrats to do what the Irish elites are already doing, ignoring their people's wants and desires?
John, Chicago, USA
Well you never really thought you would have it your way did you, the EU will never allow the treaty to die it will go on some how in order to keep it alive sacrificing ireland if necessary.
Remember 490million havent been able to have thier say and they dont speak for me or 490million others.
bazza, london,
Liam Byrne:
By that reckoning the ROI will have no problem about handing back the 40-billion and exiting the EU and urozone. Northern Ireland gets £12-billion per year form Westminster and also gets EU grants as part of the UK's regional package, etc.
Charles Smyth, Belfast, Northern Ireland
Over my dead body, we have already voted no, that is the decision of the Republic of Ireland, but if they try and forcefeed us this treaty again, i will of course vote no, but that begs the question, why am i voting again on the same issue exactly? I got it wrong the first time?
Keith Maher, Longwood, Ireland
Charles Smyth,
EU grants have never made up more than 1% of Irelands GDP at any point. EU economic areas are devoid of state boundaries, so not only has Northern Ireland being enjoying an £8 billion a year hand-out form the English Tax payer, they have received EU grants too.
Liam Byrne, Dublin, Ireland
The Republic of Ireland was more than happy to take the 40-billion of payouts to transform its third world economy and was indulged to ridiculous degrees by way of being allowed to manipulate the regional grants to gain unfair advantages for an extra couple of years. It's easy to be a good European on that basis.
Charles Smyth, Belfast, Northern Ireland
Welcome to the brave new world of the eu. There are a few people, those who directly get an advantage from the eu, the unelected commisars, who make all the decisions the mep's who get paid for not doing anything useful, and the hangers on who get our tax money simply for being there.
Barry Davies, Stafford, U. K.
The EU claim that 495m Europeans will be 'really angry if the answer is no again' makes me livid! The only countries allowed a democratic vote on the treaty have rejected it, yet the EU pretends that all those not allowed a vote are FOR the treaty. This is untrue and is a ploy to isolate the Irish.
Jan, South West London, England
If the Irish voted No, it is because they do not want to be part of this Europe. So, why do they get angry if they get isolated. Maybe because they really want to be part of this Europe and they just want to put on a show ? Get your act together and stop blaming the EU for your own mistakes.
adam, london, UK
Ireland has a tradition of fighting back against bullies. The French and Germans are so arrogant that they just dont get that fact. The EU cant be ruled by a small group of elitist fossils who think they are better than the rest. It smacks of economic imperialism and is v bad news for small states.
Johnny, Co Dublin,
OK if (when) the second vote goes ahead it will be the second attack on democracy that the european union and the irish politicians are party to. As this becomes more common democracy in europe is dead. Shame on them. An economic free trade europe yes but surely we should keep democracy?
Michael walsh, Waterford, Ireland
I didnt vote last time because I didnt really understand it. I still dont now but I'll be voting NO this time because of such arrogance and blatant disrespect from the so called "elite" of europe treating us like idiots.
I was so pro E.U before but now I feel like we should leave.
Phil, Dublin, Ireland
These people are making the same mistakes they did during the build up to the original IRISH vote on the Lisbon Treaty. Irish people never react well to threats or insults and comments such as "intellectual mediocrity", "cuddle and pamper" and "consequences of a second refusal are a mistake.
Kevin, Dublin,
Who in their right mind would condone involving "a question to which the Irish could not say no."? This kind of bullying, unveiled threats and condescending language coming from our "partners" in europe? We were right to vote no. Why is there no coverage of this in the Irish media?
Martin Butler, Wexford, Ireland
This article seems to be based on conspiracy theories. What the rest of the EU wants to do is to give Ireland all the opt outs they wish so that they would feel more comfortable with matters like abortion, military neutrality and so on.
fabio, london, UK
I refused to be bullied by some French politician that I will never have the chance to vote for. How dare they tell us what to do. Ireland has already made it's voice heard. A second referendum is undemocratic. If this is the vision of a new EU, then I want none of it.
Seán Ó Briain, Port Láirge, Éire
This is disgusting... when it comes to punishing and handing out consequences to fellow members in the EU, EU politicians have no problem handing them out.. What happened to respecting the democratic process of countries? I guess solidarity in the EU is more words then actions.
Maciej Skiba, Chicago, USA