Dominic Kennedy
We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
The British sailors and marines being held by Iran were ambushed at their most vulnerable moment, while climbing down the ladder of a merchant ship and trying to get into their bobbing inflatables.
Out of sight of their warship and without any helicopter cover, their only link to their commanders was a communications device beaming their position by satellite.
That went dead as they were captured. One theory is that it was thrown overboard to prevent the Iranians getting hold of the equipment and the information it contained.
The Ministry of Defence released the coordinates of the searched vessel yesterday to prove that the Iranian Revolutionary Guards made an unprovoked and improper attack in Iraqi waters.
The Iranians also blundered in diplomatic talks by giving the British their own compass reference for the place where they said the 14 men and one woman had been seized. When Britain plotted these on a map and pointed out that the spot was in Iraq’s maritime area, the Iranians came up with a new set of coordinates, putting the seizure in their own waters.
The speed and cunning shown by the Revolutionary Guards has raised suspicions that their action was premeditated. A senior military officer described it as “deliberate”.
It took only three minutes for the Iranians, moving at 40 knots, to move from their legitimate positions monitoring shipping in their waters to come alongside the British last Friday morning.
The sailors and marines from HMS Cornwall were in the Gulf, working under a United Nations mandate to protect Iraq from smuggling and threats to the oil industry, when an Indian-flagged vessel came under suspicion.
It was in shallow waters and the Cornwall was unable to go alongside without grounding. A boarding party jumped into two ribbed inflatable boats, or RIBs, and set out to investigate.
A helicopter hovered to observe the boarding but, after confirming that the Indian vessel was peaceful and friendly, returned to the ship. The Cornwall stayed in contact with the two launch boats via a communications link providing a GPS satellite position.
After the successful boarding of the innocent Indian vessel, the Britons began returning to their RIBs. At that moment one Iranian patrol vessel came alongside, adopting a friendly posture. As a second Iranian vessel arrived, the Revolutionary Guards turned aggressive.
HMS Cornwalllost communications with the launch boats and sent up the helicopter to investigate. The air crew watched as the small British inflatables were forced towards Iran. By now, up to four Iranian Revolutionary Guard vessels were swarming round the Britons.
Although the seizure has been widely linked to the taking of five Iranians by US forces in Iraq, Iranian diplomats have ruled this out. They say that there is no relation between the Britons’ seizure and any other bilateral, regional or international issue.
From the start, the Iranian Ambassador to London gave British diplomats a set of coordinates for the location of the confrontation.
Margaret Beckett, the Foreign Secretary, told the Iranian Foreign Minister that these compass points actually indicated a spot clearly in Iraqi waters. She tried to give Iran an exit route by suggesting that it might all be a misunderstanding that could be resolved by an immediate release of the captives.
On Sunday, the helicopter from HMS Cornwall flew back over the Indian vessel, which was still anchored and had drifted only slightly. A photograph was taken of an airman holding a GPS device. The coordinates on this picture, the MoD insists, prove that the Britons were comfortably within Iraqi waters when captured.
On Monday, Iran surprised Britain by coming up with a “corrected” set of coordinates. “The two Iranian positions are just under a nautical mile apart, 1,800 yards or so,” Vice-Admiral Charles Style, a Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff, said yesterday.
Mrs Beckett told the Iranian Foreign Minister that she could not accept the Iranians’ version of events. She told MPs in the House of Commons that it was “impossible to believe, given the seriousness of the incident, that the Iranians could have made such a mistake with the original coordinates, which after all they gave us over several days”.
Outgunned
— The two Iranian patrol ships that seized the Britons were equipped with rocket-propelled grenades and heavy machine guns, enough for a small sea battle. By contrast, the Britons go lightly armed on vessels they search in the Gulf. Each man is issued with a rifle or a pistol
— The Iranians struck at a vulnerable moment when the Britons were climbing down a ladder to jump into their inflatables
— The Royal Navy does train its men in the techniques needed to fight at just such a dangerous stage. “They had all the rights available to act in self-defence under law,” a senior military officer said. But they were in an “almost impossible position”
— A similar decision to hold fire was taken by the six Royal Marines and two sailors captured by Iran in 2004 in similar circumstances. Scott Fallon, a former marine, said they did think about shooting their way free but knew it would be hopeless. He told BBC Radio 4: “They had antiaircraft guns. We would have stood no chance”
There are so many people. (Especially Americans) who think it is so easy to shoot first and ask questions later. The British sailors did the right thing in not trying to fight there way out of a no win situation. There was little sense in being slaughtered just to show how brave you are. I have a son serving with the British army, who has just returned injured from Iraq. The stories he has told me would make all the internet heros think twice about thier comments. All the western forces in Iraq face great danger every day. War is not like you see on the TV or in the cinema. It is not like a computer game. My son did his job well and came home. I am very proud of him but wished that he hadnt been there in the first place. Until you are faced with someone pointing a weapon at you and threatening to take you life. Dont comment on how someone you dont know anything about has behaved in a very dangerous situation. If you are all so brave why are you not out there?
John Curran, liverpool, UK
First of all before you come down on us the United States,think before you type .wwII we saved your butts,the Middle East, your under handed deals has help caused this mess .And for the twinn towers that would not of happen if your goverment wasnt in bed with the turn coat French and Germans as well as Iraq.As far as Hanging the leader of Iraq its just too bad we have the balls to do it.Remember, Britton is nothing without the United States of America.If you thought about us as you do why didnt you tell us to stay home in wwII...
Brad, Mobile, Alabama
Of course it was premedited. And the whole hostage thing was purely for propaganda purposes.
While Iran is cold blooded they are definitely not un-intelligent.
Superior numbers and weaponry at a very hard to defend evolution for Royal marines and sailors. Be asured that if it hadn't been so one-sided the Iranians would not have even attempted this. Iran is terrorist state and haven. Terrorist equals coward.
allan, chicago, USA /IL
Thanks to Mr Kennedy, the author of the article we can finally see with some clarity the reported versions of this incident.
It was difficult to find such an article in the British press.
Well done to the author.
Berti, Cádiz, España
could evry American who has commented on this issue, and is giving diplomatic, tacticle and militant advice. please tell me from which precedent you drew your knowledge and experience from.was it the way you delt with hyroshima or was it your outstanding work in vietnam. or your tackticle positioning of russian misles and ships around your counrty in the cold war. or even your first trip to iraq in 1991. where you acttually managed to kill more of your own than the other side. or was it your great national security that allowed 2 american planes to distroy the twin towers. it was osma! lets get him! or maby we'll go to afganistan, not find him and start another war in iraq and find there weapons of mass distruction. which still dont seem to have appeared. oh well lets just hang there leader to prove what a humane state we've created. this matter was never easy to deal with. but managed to resolve it with no casulties or deaths. what better outcome could there be.
Huw, london, England
The Algiers agreement between Iraq and Iran outlines the deepest part of the waterway as the border.
So if the inflatable boats were in water "too shallow" for HMS Cornwell to provide cover, they must have been in Iranian water.
Trevor, Raligh, USA
What about the actions of the sailors not only during the capture but afterwards. Not one shot was fired. How could they not defend themselves and their equipment. These men and lady should feel disgraced. Their lack of action is appalling and represent a severe lack of trainingn and courage. Did someone mention to the British Navy that they are in hostile land and waters. How could you send these poeple into combat? And withing 48 hours they are denouncing their own country on TV. I found this despicable. The Americans are the only ones left in the Western world willing to take on tough challenges and provide the world with security. This escapade will further embolden those radical muslims brewing in the ghettos in London. Good luck and don't cry to us when you get your ass kicked!
Tom, apex, nc, US
In response to McDuff above... let's all just roll over then and do nothing... it's attitudes like this that have basically removed the 'Great' from Great Britain. This and previous governments have basically just handed this country on a plate to any faction that likes the handouts but doesn't want us to offend their sensitivity. What about the indiginous people of this country.... who will protect their sensitivities? God help future generations.
Hall, Wakefield, Yorkshire
How not to see a link with the disappearance of General Ali Reza Asghari ?!
It would make sense that Iran regime has jumped on the opportunity to capture a few hostages, in order to negotiate their release against the return of this clearly knowledgeable VIP.
Ben, Paris, France
The capture of our men and women in what is clearly Iraqi waters is in my eyes an act of war.
Where has the 'Great' in Great Britain gone?
Sean M, Ipswich, UK
Iran 15 - United Kingdom 0
The writing has been on the wall ever since Iran beat Scotland in the 1978 football world cup!!
Come off it guys! Who are we trying to kid?? Britain is a tin pot little Island with no armed forces to speak of and no real world standing anymore! The glory days of power and empire have long gone.
Lets just get the lads and lasses home and let those people from Iran/Iraq get on with it!
Mcduff, Perth, UK
come on guys, you have to admit that the creator of the chess has made chess matt to the brithish in a clean way.
the british entred the iranian waters, they were captured, you have to recognise it an respect other countries, you speak about human right in darfour and killing 1000000nz of people around the world,?????
pitate, tomboktou, mali
So Iran alleges the British were in their "holy" water. Then we need a "holy" war. Step one, to capture 15 important Iranians from anywhere in the world to hold as offsetting hostages, Step 2 issue Ultimatum , recall Ambassador cutting all ties with Tehran, Step 3 to bomb selected sites to do maximum financial harm to Muslim Mullah interests,
Step 4 Offer to withold severe strikes on nuclear installations. Ridicule militant Islam !
Norman Mitchell, Toronto, Canada
This incident is now making us look weak & helpless. Without doubt the Cornwall would have had to get permission from London before even thinking of engaging the Iranian Navy.
The armed forces tactics now appear to be so bound by red tape that they are starting to endanger the the personel that have to opporate under them. The treatment of the captured crew has been in line with other terrorist gangs MO. Surly its about time that sensible countries realised thats all Iran is.....The body language and retoric of its leaders are riddled with neo terrorist behavior & activities. We are never going to be able to cope with these antics with both our hands manicled behind our back.
So please can we stop our ancesters spinning in their graves and make Iran understand that unless we have our people back right now there will be a price to pay.
Steve Brennan, Telford, UK
7:26 PM (USA, ET)
The AP has just reported that Iran's president has called Britain "arrogant and selfish" for not apologizing over what he called the incursion of 15 captured British sailors and marines into Iranian waters.
The AP continues: "President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's most extensive comments on the crisis closely followed tough talk from other Iranian officials, an indication that Tehran's position could be hardening."
Well, this certainly is positive news, isn't it? Britain has now been shown a clear "diplomatic" path out of this mess. Simply admit your wrongdoing, bow deeply and apologize. What could be simpler and more reasonable than that?
Brittania, I say take this generous offer from the Iranians before they get angry and change their minds!
Dan Friedman, New York City, USA
Viewing British Sailors praising their Iranian captors made me realise how useless the West really is.Once upon a time if you gave the enemy more than your name serial no# and rank you would be traitor and many died at Gestapo hands doing only this. Iran would not touch these sailors for fear of total onslaught from the USA [not sissy Britian] and yet there they go... blathering their mouths off.
Leslie Udwin, Johannesburg, South Africa
I am an American citizen. Please world, do not judge the American people by our President. We, overwhelmingly, voted in our last election to end his insane war. We hate the image our President has created for us in the world community. We are truly peace loving people who have always tried to help those in need.
With that being said, many Americans look to the UK as our mother country, with whom we have deep ties and admiration for. We grieve with you, and the families of the 15 who were captured, illegally, and you have 100% of our support. As much as we hate war, and we really do, the concensus from America is that we will back our British brothers and sisters anyway we can, and if that means going to war with you.......we will, with unconditional support.
With affection,
Joie McDonald, Cincinnati, OH, USA
>>> Bush stragety 101 by carl rowe. after 7 years you think educated people would notice what's going
That's it. Bush did it!
By the way, it's Karl Rove, genius. You'd think after 7 years, you'd at least know the name of the man you hate. Oh, and "stragety" isn't a word. Perhaps you meant strategy.
John, Northampton, USA
Iran never forgot US/ British meddling & invidious facilitation given
to Iraq during the ten year war in eighties.
MOD underrated those guys ..again.Number 10 hoisted by its own petard..A crowning farewell present to biffling Toni.
Willy Mall , Lydd, UK
The Commander of HMS Cornwall (F99) took charge in November 2006 and was only on station in The Gulf from 12th March 2007 taking over from the US Navy.......and now he is light 15 crew members........
TomTom, Leeds, England
The Iranian regime is taking advantage of the West's greatest weakness, political correctness. Years of Marxist indoctrination has caused so many in the West to view our civilization as racist, imperialistic and illegitimate. Now when confronted by the obvious manipulations of a malignant aggressor we lack the sense of self-righteousness to defend our citizens. The best we can muster is an expression of "grave concern" by the UN! Ahmadinejad and the mullahs laughed when they were informed of that, I assure you.
Steve, New York, USA
Winston Churchill must be spinning in his grave.
What's the next step for the feminized Brits?
Paint your "war" ships pink?
graywolf, Ferrisburgh, VT, USA
Whilst I agree that on the surface the Captain of HMS Cornwall should face a court martial on charges of 'dereliction of duty' and 'negligence', I think that you will find that he will have a cast iron defense. It is almost certain that he was under orders not to react if such an occurrence took place without obtaining clearance from the UK. I served in the services in most of the 'hot-spots' from the mid-fifties to the mid-seventies and in almost every area that was the case. After Templar made the politicians look foolish in the early fifties they were determined to never let it happen again. All commanders from that time on were under sealed orders from London restricting their ability to act.
An example of one that didn't take the hint was Mitchell in Aden, and look what happened to him! Sorry, buck stops with Number 10 and MOD.
Ex-Pat, Saulieu, France
The President should go to the UN and stand in front of a giant movie screen.
There he should announce that in compliance with general world opinion, the US will withdraw its forces and its money from any country that request we leave.
However, should the US determine it or its allies are under threat, (a colored picture of a nuclear blast shows on the movie screen) we will respond with the full military might of the nation and continue until the threat is fully neutralized-no negotiation -no quarter- no safe haven.
This is the unfortunate results of: a) We can no longer afford to fund any cause outside our own nation. b) We will take all threats very seriously. c) We really have no choice.
The decision is yours(the world)- Our non-interference and peace or should you declare or demonstrate continued threat- your total and utter demise.
Ron Castellano, Nanty Glo, PA
i thnk personaly we have been made to look weak we need the eu to stop all trade with iran and demand out sailors back and stop pussy fooding about.
kay, selby, uk
."..a brief lesson from Israel on how to act when your troops are unlawfully captured is in place for the Royal Navy. - Gary, Alicante, Spain"
I think comments like these are a bit of wishful thinking combined with nostalgia. Thanks to the incessant Israel-bashing of Britain & Europe, Israel has now assumed the same timid posture. After going to full-scale war over hostages taken by Hamas and Hezbollah, Israel failed to follow-thru, withdrew and to this day hasn't recovered a single man. Talk about Jewish assimilation!
Dan Friedman, New York City, NY USA
What would your ancestors say about this feeble reaction to this obvious act of aggression against the British people, come on get a grip UK and show them what you are made of, you have the power and the strength, just regain your confidence and use it.
Brad, Boston, USA
I think a brief lesson from Israel on how to act when your troops are unlawfully captured is in place for the Royal Navy.
Gary, Alicante, Spain
The frigate is a fairly sophisticated warship with a heavy gun and a missile battery. Cornwall didn't even fire a shot across the bow of the Iranians fleeing with the ship's own sailors - in a war zone. Now you expect punctilious diplomatic back-and-forth to get the Iranians to release your people? Get real, boy and girls.
Dan Friedman, New York City, NY USA
All sounds incompetent to me considering the region and we have been at war for years.
I think the Iranians are playing a stormer, you have to give it to them
John Smith, Leeds, UK
Its interesting to do a search through all the comments using the word "Israel". The general impression that I receive as an Israeli, is that the majority of the posters here want and need us to intervene and put a stop to the aggressive leaders of Iran.
You can count on it.
Gil, Tel Aviv, * I S R A E L *
How could the Iranians "ambush" the boarding party when HMS Cornwall was allegedly monitoring the situation, had sophisticated equipment operating at the time and had helicopter cover available? It must have been known that these are dangerous waters, that disputes over exact boundary lines exist. Clearly someone was sleeping on Cornwall. Now the government has been handed a very sticky mess to sort out. As with the whole of this Iraq Iranian business, our government does not listen to those who know a little of the culture and thought processes of the muslim mind. They have rules that are very different from those envisaged by the mandarins and other foreign office flunkies on whom we have to rely.
John Groom, Yerevan, Armenia
'Commodore' Nick Lambert ought to face a court marial for failure in his first duty as an officer to protect the men under his commissioned command. I can think of about six charges. Non doubt a knighthood will come his way- eventually.
Victor Cowen , Malaga, Spain
If the Royal Navy hasnt the expertise or the equipment to handle a few Iranian gunboats, then they should get back to Portsmouth, reminisce on the glorious past and let the professionals do the job the Americans. If the Iranians in the gunboats had found out that they were dealing with Americans (and they did ask first), they would have given a sloppy grin, waved bye-bye and scuttled back with their tail between their legs. Third World countries think twice before tweaking the American tail after the 'demonstration' in Iraq.
John, Bangor, UK
Iran only has one oil refinery. They have to import refined gasoline as they do not have enough capacity to refine their own needs. Someone should whisper in their ear that if the sailors aren't home within days that their sole refinery might meet with an accident. Iran would be crippled by the end of April.
Guy Thornton, Swindon,
Time to eat crow to get our people back and thereafter wind down our activities within the United Nations, This is also an opportunity to speed our withdrawal from Iraq.
We provide the finance and manpower and get no backing when there is confrontation.
What a fantastic case for updating Trident. Clearly nobody will stand beside us in troubles only with wise words.
Vernon Cooper, Yeavil, United Kingdom
What's all this about "suspicion" it was premeditated. Does any sensible person really think it was NOT premeditated? So long as the West tries to foist its values on other people but does not defend its own people and values when it matters, it will always be made to look assinine. Time to wake up.
Fred Hillman, Perth, W Australia
So the Iranian navy is smarter than ours, Oh dear. Or perhaps our captain was to busy filling out his daily gender equality assessment report to notice those sneaky fellows.
martyn millard, calvia, mallorca
"If all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail."
And if you don't have a hammer, be prepared to be someone else's nail.
M. Fernandez, San Francisco,
Maybe if Blair cries like a jilted schoolgirl the Iranians will release the hostages out of disgust. Either that or seize 15 oil tankers coming out of Iran until the hostages are freed.
van west, indianapolis,
Maybe if Blair cries like a jilted schoolgirl the Iranians will release the hostages out of disgust. Either that or seize 15 oil tankers coming out of Iran until the hostages are freed.
van west, indianapolis,
Discretion is the better part of valour and he who is slow to anger shows great wisdom. In the UK, Tony Blair's government should be actively composing Plan B should Plan A (diplomacy) fail. To fail to make Iran comply with international law will only open the can of worms, that is Iran, even further. We all know where it ends - Israel and an ever expanding Persian Empire.
And I concur with another respondent - you cannot reason with the unreasonable and you cannot offer rationale to the ignorant.
Also, the prisoners at Guantanemo were taken in battle. As far as I know, the UK is not at war with Iran.
Richard, BSB, Brunei
One man's racist bigot is another man's patriot with pride in his heritage and a certain knowledge that he is in the right...there are too many nonplussed individuals in Londinium for this country to survive...shame on you, Mohammed, for not appreciating the gift you were given of an opportunity to live in a free country and absorb a little of our history and values.
Richard Russell, london, uk
The Shat Al Arab Has been in dispute for 80 years, ostensibly the border extends outward from land. It is easy to view this in historical terms if one is so disposed. ..Except for the seizure of Iranian Nationals in Iraqi territory engaged the act of aiding the Shiite sectarian militias. America presents a convenient target in this civil war but are not necessarily wrong in attempting to disarm and demobilize these non governmental forces. Until the Iranian President gets off this course of confrontation and threats we are all under threat of violence. How, I ask myself could Nostradamus have known, or do these predictions become self fulfilling?
Those of us who think about these things can come to no other conclusion than that Brittain, Israel and the USA will eventually attempt to put to rest this threat irregardless of world opinion with this abduction as impetus if not pretext for action.
Mr Ahmadinejad should be careful what he wishes for.
P Pople, waterloo,
Hey Brits,
Kick their butts...will ya please? My grandmother's brother fought as a soldier in the British Army in WWII before coming to America. He had many stories of fighting the Germans in the desert. He lived to have a great life and was a man of honarble character. Don't let the wimpy media convince you that loving the maniacal tyrants of the world is a solution. It is not. Suit up, shape up, get some firearms training then go kick their butts. They have it coming -- this entire event was staged to try and embarass you. Don't let them do it. Cheers and Godspeed.
Ralph Erthanu, Princeton, NJ
I fail to see how Britain owuld lose, if only the PM would hold a press conference and graciously, but not slavishly, apoligize in the qualified event that Britain was in teh wrong. The PM could then state that Britain has checked and rechecked its information and does not beleive it was iin Iragi waters. Next Britain could assure Iran that it would never have meant any offence to Iran and understands that Iran may fgeel on edge at this point in time. Britain should assure I ran that it does not wish to have ANY conflicts with Iran, and indeed would hope that the two countries could form stronger relations. Mr. Blair's approach so far, may only be offending Iran. There is little point in doing that, especially as they have already chosen to accept UN snactions for going ahead with they electricity programs.
Em Hawthorne, London, UK
Commodore Lambert and his 31 strong "Maritime Battle Staff" took over Gulf naval command from the US only a few weeks ago and already we have this complete debacle.
Perhaps it is time to remind RN Flag Officers that they should follow in the tradition of Admiral Nelson not Admiral Byng.
Baz, Cambridgeshire, U.K.
For goodness sake stop banging on about Hitler, Chamberlain the 'thirties and Thatcher. Now is a completely different environment. If your man Adolf had a nuke in '39, actually if there were even nukes in '39 things would have been different. Churchill was obviously an incredible leader, but today, right or wrong, he would have been classed as a racist bigot ok? Live in the present huh?
Nonplussed , London, Londinium
Londoner
Very dissapointing post mate.
That whole orange shackle enemy combatant garbage is sad. Guantanamo is right or wrong but our soldiers are not "enemy combatants", the Geneva convention applies to them in FULL. They were never spies (uniform) and apparently they were'nt even in Iranian waters. Why say what you say dude? Why are you so bitter?
Nonplussed , London, Londinium
JC, Spring Lake, USA is quite right. For one thing, women can only be a hindrance in a tense, potentially lethal confrontation, and for another, why were Royal Navy personnel, on a risky mission close to Iranian gunboats in a volatile region, 'lightly armed' and out of sight of their ship? Why weren't they armed to the teeth and backed up by helicopter gunships?
Nations like Iran fear that approach a lot more than they respect weakness and diplomacy. Now we're in the ludicrous position of negotiating with idiots who seriously expect the world to believe the letters purportedly written by helpless hostages.
While the UN and the 'EU' are debating Iran's obvious nuclear aspirations, I confidently expect to wake up one morning to hear that Israel has solved the problem for us. After all, Israel is realistic enough to know that it has no choice. A nuclear capable Iran is unthinkable.
j griffiths, manchester, england
Everyday is looks more and more like we are reliving the '30s again. This time it is not Germany that is making a mockery of International Law. Hopefully someone will finally grow a pair and stand up to "Adolf" Ahmadinejad. He himself, in several interview believes he is to prepare the way for the "12" Iman. Don't know about you kiddies but that doesn't bode well for the rest of the world.
Doug , Las Vegas, USA/Nevada
I have been reading all the comments coming from various countries. Most of the ones coming from the U.S. are suggesting the utter destruction of Iran.
But I can only sit back and grin at some of the online military advise being given to the British.
If all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.
HJr, Toronto, Canada
Why haven't we heard anything about the position of the Indian boat? They should have accurate GPS coordinates to validate the fact they weren't in Iranian water.
Brian S, Santa Barbara, CA, USA
After all the military escesses and internation law breaking committed by the coalition of the willing, it is not surprising Iran is feeding them a bit of their own medicine. The US and Britain use their power to regularly treat people of other nations with contempt and this is a rare backlash which it would be too reckless to hope they will learn from.
Neil Millard, London,
War to make oil cheap? More rhetoric for those who are too whimpy to stand up for what is right. Oil prices in the U.S. were already cheap before the invasion started. Prices are now triple.
So please try...just try...to use your head before claiming that this is a wall for oil.
Chris, New York, NY
Just how hard is Iran laughing at this moment? They have the magnificent British Navy by family jewels and they know they can do anything they want. The question is, how much humiliation can the English take? Sadly, the famed "stiff upper lip" attitude the world has looked up to for decades, has been replaced by the "quivering chin" due to an infestation of left wing liberals. To the real Brits who still have a backbone, I ask, what would Winston Churchill do at this moment in history? Methinks we all know!
Bill, Boston, Mass.
Its time to put Iran out of our misery!
James Fuller, Fishers, Indiana USA
'Londoner'...that's London as in the capital city of the UK, is it? You wouldn't think so with the garbage that you spout.
Unless, of course, you're referring to the Revolutionary Guard when you say 'trespassers' (which is how one really spells it)? They're the ones who encroached on another country's territory.
Mancunian, Manchester, UK
I think Starling from Lancaster always posts a sensible point. Keep it up hun.
Nonplussed , London, Londinium
I say hold the tresspassers for 5 years, put them in orange boiler suits and shackles. A befitting trubute for enemy combatants.
Londoner, London, UK
This is an unfortunate turn of events for our British cousins. Thank you to all in the UK for your tremendous sacrifices on behalf of world peace and stability. The thoughts and prayers of the American people are with these marines, sailors and their families.
Justin Pettis, Olympia, WA - USA
Seeing that Iran is ignoring the U.N. by continuing with its nuclear programme, why shouldn't the British block access to and from Iran via any sea vessel until the issue is resolved? The U.N. is not preventing Iran so it should not prevent Britain either.
Anonymouse, Suffolk, UK
Iran should be given an ultimatum to release the sailors in X days without condition, or the UK with US aid should blockage the country and disable its only gasoline refinery. Time to learn that talking only gets you so far unltss there's a credible and forceful threat sitting offstage in the wings. I'm saddened that the UK, with such a history of duty, honor and courage, has been reduced to a country chock'd full of whining subjects who blame everyone but the perpetrators first.
H. Tuttle, New York, NY
I am really surprised to hear Brits talking about the US the way they do in these comments. The US has ALWAYS taken your backs, and you have always been there when we needed you. So what has changed. Islamic Terrorist's. We need to stand up to this threat together and stay focused on the goal. Look at what they are costing us. OUR FREEDOM. We travel in fear. Prices are higher on everthing. We fear for our children and they are vulernable. We are not war mongers. We did not ask for this fight. IT WAS brought to us. Don't you think Blair and Bush know a whole lot more than we do. They have access to highly secreative information that they cannot share. I am sick of listening to you passive winers that believe Iran will sit and negoiate...that is not going to happen. They are stalling for time to get their nuke and believe me when I say this they will not hesitate to use it! We will all be held hostage. But the French are there to help us...or is it the Russians?
John, Atlanta , Georgia USA
I cant help but not think if this were the U.S. Navy Seals that the shoe would be on the other foot. The Iranian Revolutionary Guards would be in our custody, with many casualties being on there side. The Royal Navy needs to arm their people with the proper weapons, proper training and do not bring women on these types of missions.
There is an old saying - You don't bring a knife to a gun fight
JC, Spring Lake, USA
Newt Gingrich said it best, give the Iranians 30 days to release the Brits, if they don't bomb their only gasoline refinery. Then blockaide the country so no gas gets in. Let them sit for six months with no gasoline. This will undoubtably result in a regime change. I could care less if we turned the entire gulf to glass and its inhabitants to ash.
The Iranians are sadly mistaken if they think they can beat us in a fight.
Tony, New milford, NJ, USA
If you Yanks love the Poodle so much then please take him then us civilised people in the UK can get on without being dragged into wars designed to keep you Yanks in cheap oil. Better still send Bliar out to Iraq to do his own fighting.
Dave Fletcher, Westbury, UK
Incredible that our brave servicemen and women should be exposed in this way; if the sea was too shallow for HMS Cornwall to keep close to them with good visual contact, at least a helicopter gunship should be providing air cover, or like the Iranian's they should be provided with shallow draft boats with machine guns etc. The Minister of Defence should resign and the Conservative Party be making a proper fuss about further budget cuts to our armed forces.
Richard James, London @ Prague,
Well... if the RIB's can be considered warships, they should be protected unter United Nations Convention Law of the Sea Part II Section 3 Article 30, defining warships and stating that they may only be EXTRACTED from another nations territorial waters (and even that only if they failed to comply with requests to leave)
Or am I missing something important here?
G. Caprivi, Wellington, New Zaaland
All the countries who bang on the drum of "democracy" should take a good look at the U.N.
U.N. general assembly is made up of more than 180 countries with each country having exactly one vote. This means that a vote by a country like China with one quarter population of the Earth has equal value to the vote by Burkina-Fasso. But that's not the only problem. The resolutions passed by the U.N. General Assembly are non-binding. That means they are mere suggestions for solving world problems.
The only vote that is binding is the U.N. Security Council vote made up of 5 permanent members (U.K, U.S. France, China and Russia) along with 10 rotating members. The 5 countries I mentioned have veto power and the rest don't.
No wonder most binding U.N. resolutions are passed against third world countries. I am not even going to mention the arm-twisting that goes on behind the scenes.
In other words these 5 countries are the judge and the executioner. The U.N. needs to be democratized
Arsan, NY, NY
I feel in a time of "equal rights" the media should give equal cover to all 15 hostages,not just one and her family !!! they are all captive !! I also feel Tony Blair is using the correct balance of patience & strength
Barbara , Barnsley, South Yorkshire
the U.S. & U.K. need to take Immediate action, make it swift and powerful without any room for mistake on the next course of action...
US Ranger2, Pasadena,
Regarding the 2004 incident- "They had antiaircarft guns, we stood no chance". Response: Shoot the aircraft gunners first! It will usually surprize (and scare) them that they are actually being fired at when they were hoping their big guns would intimidate their prey into not resisting.
During the Vietnam war an American pilot threw away his revolver and surrendered to a VC who had an Ak-47 slung across his back. He said "What can a .38 do against an AK-47?" In any gunfight, it's the bullet that hits first that determines the outcome!!!
Patrick, Everett, USA
I am quite clear that Britain is in the right in this specific instance. But we are wrong in the broader foreign policy context: the invasion on Iraq, our support of Israel's hugely destructive war on Lebanon, our refusal to deal with the elected government of Palestine, and deliberate fuelling of rivalry between the Palestian Presidency and Government, our pursuit of a new generation of Trident nuclear weapons, our refusal to accept Iran's nuclear ambitions contrasted to our silence over Israel's considerable nuclear capability ... this is why we are wrong footed and failing to win the support we deserve on this matter in the Security Council. We need to develop a wholly new foreign policy, and one that does not consist mainly of following the US lead no matter how crass.
Oliver Tickell, Oxford, Oxon
I cannot believe that the leading seaman was t he most senior rate in this operation,were there no sergeants or petty officers
jim flynn, edinburgh, scotland
Within such a short time we have fantastic satellite imagery of the incident. While I look forward to our troops being returned to us safely without harm. Is anyone else wondering why, when the Iranians capture our troops they have more visibility than say when the US capture Iranian diplomats who have gone 'missing'. More importantly, I guess the reason we did not get this same level of detail on evidence before the Iraq invasion was because if the same standard of care was given to the claims of Iraq and WMD we wouldn't have a leg to stand on in justifying the war.
As to the Iranians, stop being foolish and return our troops. If you start playing games like this you wil eventually get a reputation like that of the US, and lets face it, one global power acting like dweebs is one too many!
Farrukh, Woking, UK
get in and get them out before they get beheaded , these people are not to be trusted
mike, sheffield,
Jamshid, Tehran, Iran,
Best keep your Eye on the Sky, my friend. Your country's time is coming.
Ryan, Indy, Indiana
Pierre in Nantes.
Considering that France is relegated to trolling comments sections...I think we can disregard you!
Matt, London,
Question : after Iran will be bombing, witch country will be next ?
jojo, paris, france
It is so sad to see Iran being patronised by such poorly educated rulers. Not only their universities and people have to suffer, their ministries even have to act on badly equipped minds. Long time passed to play cat and mouse. Someone has asked to be put right by the first one coming along.
Andrew, Midlands, UK
jim/houston: read the article again...they weren't 1800' from shore...your talking just over 1/4 of a mile...think about it...they said the 2 iranian boats were 1800 yds from where the UK troops were...as long as they were in international waters (which the UK has proven and only the foolish don't believe) the iranians were out of line...thats why they sent 4 heavily armed boats against 2 small inflatables.
Chris, Texas, USA
I'm sure I'll get flamed for replying but I feel that this IS in response to the 5 Iranians captured by the U.S. I do now and will always back the UK in whatever action they deem necessary to get the return of their servicemen (and woman). We should be able to live in a world without the worry of war, crime, etc. but it will always be here in some form or fashion and as a former Navy sailor I'm praying for the safe return of these people.
Chris, Texas, USA
so many muslims who voice their opinions on news shows or the like, use the 'you did this, so were gonna do this' vengance argument. Jamshid, Tehran, Iran for example.
what iran has done is wrong, no matter what they think britain is doing in iraq. i wish all this people would stop referring back to what they think are previous wrongs by the britiah and americans. if the britsh began to act like this then all hell would break lose, if the roles were reversed then iran would probably attack iraq. this non diplomatic squabbling that non dimplomatic countries and governments embark on is the reason behind so many deaths in iraq and palastine.
chris, leeds, england
The time for action is now - especially as the Russians are now backing away form helping us. Seems to me the only real way of getting these British citizens out of Iran is to send it the SAS and free them by force. Or hasn't Blair got the nerve of his predecessors?
I appreciate that they aren't being held hostage in London, where they're easily accessible, but we have the capability to set them free and we should use it, before they come home in body bags. Good to see Margaret Beckett has grown so much from being a dismal local Derbyshire MP, to being a dismal Foreign Secretary. What idiot promoted her? She has no spine and no ability to take the Iranian's on at their own game. Maybe we should detain the Ambassador in London for the crime of living on UK soil until our troops are set free.
Neil J, Derby, Derbyshire
Derek - San Diego.... cherry picking is one thing, but your comment is unbelievable, laughable and incredibly naive.... you say only the US ever steps in... the US, along with the rest of the powers that be, UK included, ONLY step in when it suits them and their agendas... remember Timor, Cambodia, Ma Lai, too numerous to mention Israeli massacres of various people, and many many other places which should never be forgotten... but will be... If the US and the UK are so much the leaders in world democracy, then why do they only pick causes that benefit them...acceptance of the undeniable Armenian genocide.. oops, no, that would upset the turks, current situation in Zimbabwe, Somalia, etc, etc... oh no, there's no material wealth in doing somenthing there, such as oil maybe? Is it also the sign of a true democratic country when a president realises his corruption, illegal activities are maybe about to be found out, so changes the law... Mr Bush.....
Exiled Englishman, Zurich,
This political posturing is dumb.
No one believes what the hostages say in public as we all know that they are forced to do so. I believe all hostages should comply with their captors, say what is wanted then when released just get on with their life .eventually the hostage takers may realise that they are setting themselves up as pretty stupid for believing their own rhetoric.
All Trade with Iran should cease immediately , governments should compensate companies for lost trade and we should isolate these dumb dorks and for goodness sake stop selling them the armaments the abuse us with
Michael Wilkinson, Telford, shropshire / UK
I think Jamshid, you are right, you were far better off under your dictator, fewer people died and we didn't have to get involved at all- Somehow we were told that there was a threat to us- a 45 minute threat of chemical weapons but that has been shown not to have existed.
Through all of this there are innocent people in our country and yours, who do not make the decisions and do not take part.
Though your people are suffering, what can we ordinary people do? We are all powerless, except at least we all now have a chance to use our democratic vote
Rod, London, UK
The Iranian regime, not the people, want a fight - do not give it to them - keep cool - and calculated. Please use this incident to re-build relationships between UK and Iran - even at the expense of narrow US interests.
I am sorry to say that after reading the comments above - it startles me to read majority of US responses believe bombing is the answer to all solutions. As a Brit, I fear to say we may have more in common with the people of Iran than the US in terms of peace, sacrifice, fortitude and humanity. This is not about religion- Islam and Christainity are bound together. Violence is not an answer -whether in domestic affairs or indeed national interests. Use the bomb money for industry at home forget about blockades - build trade and goodwill.
The Navy personnel are in perfect order - say no more.
Blair you are right on this occasion but your hypocracy knows no bounds- this is your opportunity to show humility and give your departure/book a happy ending.
Adrian, Saint Petersburg,
To Jamshid , who thinks that "thanks to the US & UK & their coalition of the willing, over 100 innocent people get killed in Iraq every day": a key reason why so many people are being killed is that Iran is sponsoring murderous terrorist insurgents, in a depressingly blatant attempt to scupper any hope of a good outcome.
Jonathan, London, UK
What angers me about this whole thing is that the British was doing a job for the UN, not for our benefit yet it takes the UN 6 days to do something, frankly i wished Blair would get our troops out of the area, it is nothing to do with the UK and why the US have to get involved in dealing with thing that don't concern them i will never know, they say it's a war on terror, more like to get their hands on the oil, ten of thousands of people have been killed in Iraq during the US/UK occupation, the same sort of number that got killed under Saddam, why not just pull all the troops out and let the Iraqi people sort it out themselves, i'm just pleased that the Iranians didn't try and arrest some Yanks because now we would be at the start of another war which is all Bush wants, Iran are in my opinion doing this to test the west and to gain some popularity with their own people, but they in my opinion have lied from the first minute with wrong coordinates etc, lets hope for peace in the area.
A W WOOD, cleethorpes, UK
I think "twayapeh, Singapore" is completely right and international community must focus on Iranian government and try not to harm the poor people, god knows that we mostly do not support our government's policies but as Iran is not a democratic country we do not have any forces to stop them just have to wait and see how we are being humiliated globally. Please do not watch that few people holding placards asking Britons to be executed they are government's paid people.
Also I am wondering why EU countries do not cut all economic ties with Iran in their soonest to push these crazy leaders understand they can not do whatever they want to.
Hope the Britons would be freed safely and ASAP.
Karim, Tehran, Iran
Mr. "proud" Jamshid, of Tehran, Iran: How's life under the thumb of an ayatollah? Can't say I envy your position. Infallibility. Something you or Iran shouldn't pretend to have.
Gawd, Sacramento, CA
It sounds to me that the Iranians are asking UK to "stop beating your wife!"
Jeff Crawford, Altdorf, Germany
The Persians were a great race previous to being conquered by islam. Now their thinking has been narrowed to such a point because of it that they perceive us as mortal enemies. The opposite is true, so they must be made to understand they are following the wrong path & if they opened their eyes they would see their destination is not where they want to end up.....
Dave, Sydney, Australia
Depending on the UN to assist getting its sailors and marines back , is another mistake Britain made. They may well have to go around the UN now and take them back by force, dicey as that may be.
Such is the cost of trying to act civilized with a retrograde nation.
T. Gray, San Diego,
It is not fair to sustain that Americans, British and Iranians should all simply "get along", "forget their grievances" and start cooperating as if they were equals. They are not. The Americans with the help of thier British aid-de-camps are causing a lot more trouble than they are solving. Whet are they doing in Iraqui watrs in the first place? What are they doing in that region at all? Evident vested interests prevent the rest of the world from swallowing up that they are noble freedom fighters. In any case, we lating amiericans have every reason not to be that naïve.
Adrian Deserventi, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Can't we all get along? Group hug!
Garrett Calhoun, Seattle,
Ii is common knowledge internationally that Iran deliberately creates incidences to highlight their disregard for the Western powers and show their allies that they can do what they want and get away with it. It is a very difficult situation for Britain and the USA who quite naturally do not wish to inflame this obvious provocation. The consequences of passive reaction by the international community will only encourage Iran into planning further outrages. Its only a matter of time. In my view a tough stance needs to be taken against the Iranian leadership. The fine Iranian people are not responsible, its the leadership that insists on playing this highly dangerous confrontational game. They think in terms of leverage and bargaining chips. The Iranian leadership views the international community like the old time harem eunuchs with bleating protests but no action. The animosity shown to Mess. Bush and Blair by their own nationials for tackling Saddam allows Iran this freedom.
twayapeh, singapore,
Jamshid,
The peoples of the world need to move past ancient grievances. Otherwise there will be no peace.
Ken Miller, Seattle, USA
Jamshid,
I agree as an American that the UK (we fought them once as well) is not all roses, but as the USA and UK now get along it would be nice if the USA and IRAN and UK could all get along. Working together we all benifit, apart we just end up getting killed in new and more horrible ways. We all have enough weapons to blow this planet up several times, but if we do that I think we have missed the point. As much as Iran seems to hate the US and vice versa you did make a point. We are all red blooded humans and need to learn to get along, for if we fight the only winners will be the maggots and the flies. I for one would like to visit the middle east without fear of being killed mutilated beat up or shot just for being an American. I am pretty sure you as an Iranian can come here without that fear. In fact just about anyone can. Let us stop the escalation and fight like humans, with our brains and intelligence, otherwise we are nobetter than savages and animals.
Sean, Austin, USA/Texas
With a large majority of American readers being that we British have become soft due to the fact that we choose to think with our heads (that are thankfully housing brains with a cellcount higher than TWO!) I am left with further doubt that this will not only escalate into a war, but also that it will be instigated through pressure from the Americans. We Brits like to do things our way so leave us be...I really do hope this political alliance between America and Britain ends with the careers of Bush and Blair!
SUNNY, Birmingham , England
"It's a pity that Britain's actions in Iraq means that it has lost the right to refer to international law.
joe, brussels, belgium"
Dude, you serious? What exactly has international law benfited? People are slaughtered all over the world especially in Africa, yet the "international" response is nill. Only the US helps in those conflicts, yet we're always vilified.
Derek, San Diego, CA
I think I speak for a lot of Americans who will support the British what ever they decide. I hope and pray for the best.
Patrick Mulrain, Tomah, Wisconsin
So we [Britain] decide [or are forced] to help the US in invading Irag, at great expense to life and economy, and the US cannot even help us with this situation. 'Who is this America?'
Graz McLeish, Chengdu, China
Thanks to the US & UK & their coalition of the willing, over 100 innocent people get killed in Iraq every day. I guess they are not considered human beings in your western lexicon & moral compass. You care about 15 millitary personnel who asked for trouble by following their unwise government's plots to infiltrate Iranian territory, and to instigate trouble in the oilfields and surrounding areas in south western Iran.
For those who may actually read my humble words, I say this: we Iranians are a proud bunch, and we will never accept the oppression & suppression that you (the west) have imposed on the rest of the middle east. For once in your lifetime, go and read the facts in the history of Iran-Britain relationship in the last 200 years to see the crimes that the Brits have committed against us, least of which is the coup detat against the popularly & democratically elected government of Dr. Mossadegh. No red-blooded Iranian will ever forget your injustices & crimes.
Jamshid, Tehran, Iran
All the stories that were told of Kings and days of old, but there's no England anymore... Ray Davies
Phil, Fair Oaks, California, USA
Obviously many in US/UK believe in their overwhelming military superiority. Otherwise most people would think twice about suggesting similar attack when US was going around sniffing China. This is going to be another Hezbollah vs Israel type outcome if we are still interested in confirming the facts on the ground. The rules of the game have changed.
AK, Boston, US
I'm sorry but I am getting pretty sick of the gung-ho attitudes of some Yanks, and indeed some of our own people. If there were no threat of retalliation (including an increased terrorist threat) and a guarantee that we'd get our soldiers back and civillians would not be hurt, then I would back us going in, but that is just not the case. We live in dangerous times and I have to admit the situation with our captured troops does worry me, and I do think that the Iranian government is trying to bait us into retaliating, but I think for the sake of all of us we should not. However I am fearful that this may land up with a military answer rather than a diplomatic one, especially as thanks to Mr Putin we have not even got a strong condemnation from the UN, which almost makes it sound like Iran have a right to hold and parade our people for propaganda purposes.
I just hope this can all be resloved soon without force for all our sakes.
B.A.D-H, Fareham, UK
I feel so heartbroken inside writing these thoughts but, this incident really brings home the fact that we in the US should become isolationist. The US does not have the ability to do this alone and we should'nt be trying to do it with a UK contingent that seems so european in the feminine sense of the word. I guess thats the heart-wrenching part for me. As a typical former member of the US Navy I hold the royal navy in tremendous esteem and can't believe my eyes when I see how the senior service has become an embarassment to it's history. The real kicker is that they are the best europe has, and their performance from the c.o. to the sailors and marines who were allowing themselves to be videoed like it was no big deal is horrific . I guess they were broken without being bruised in less than 48 hours.
Tim, Wappingers Falls, NY,USA
When did the sissies start running England?
WHere's Gordon or Clive or Montgomery?
Grow some Nads!
Remember your past!
Helen McCaffrey, Cape May Court House, NJ
Of course Blair has adopted a wimpish response to what most other countries would consider an act of war by the Iranians - he hasn't been given his orders by Bush...
Can you imagine Maggie Thatcher bleating pathetically about "how unfair" it all is?
Chris Bradbury, London, England
My prayers and my friends' prayers are with your leadership and with the hostages. If we could get Jill Carroll and others home, we can get your people home too. With much love for all of you,
Rosalie Dunbar, Dracut, Massachusetts, USA
And where is the UN or the Left? Yet another example of why International Law only works against the west and Not the rest of the world. Un-real.
Tj, Detroit, Michigan
The British have always adopted a 'minimalist approach to the use of force' in this area; this incident will not help the Iranian cause. God bless our service men and woman who are putting their lives on the line out there, day in, day out....
Mark, Derby, England
Western countries such as the (US and Britain itself probably) hold innocent prisoners themselves. Unfortuantely, these prisoners will never get the coverage, support and condemnation of the countries which are detaining them as the British marines will. All these countries are as bad as eachother, each with their own agendas.
'terrorists, al Quaeda, the middle east, Iran, extremists, Bush, oil... ' blah blah blah
I wish the media would focus on tragedies which are actually the most evil and biggest threat to humanity in terms of human life, such as poverty, war and greed. There are so many untold stories all over the world which need coverage. I wish the western media would start reporting more on the real issues, the world's untold stories.
Sheeva, London,
Armchairdinnerjacket Is Behind This I,m Sure
But The British Navy Must Guard Our Sailors With Heavy
Guns In Future,My Grandson was Nearly Posted On This Ship,Many Of His Friends And Mates are Among H.m.s
Cornwall Personel.
I Think This Could Have Been Dealt With A Different Way
The U.K Government Has Embarrased Us All.
Thomas Denny, Surbiton, Surrey,uk
Seeing Iran renege on their promise of releasing one of our Navy personnel, isnt it time we started looking at options to retrieve our people?
It seems Iran will not comply with diplomatic measures, these Navy are our people, we should be protecting them as they protect us. As they were doing nothing wrong and they have been illegally seized, cant we do something more than politely ask for them back...pretty please.
We should have concern for their safety every second they are in that country. Furthermore arent we at the stage where we could give personnel devices allowing us to track their location? if these devices worked at short range and could not be tampered with, we could have located and retrieved our people by now.
Craig, Pueblo/Telford, USA/UK
The Iran/Iraq maritime boundary shown on the British government map does not exist. It has been drawn up by the British Government. Only Iraq and Iran can agree their bilateral boundary, and they never have done this in the Gulf, only inside the Shatt because there it is the land border too. This published boundary is a fake with no legal force.
Accepting the British coordinates for the position of both HMS Cornwall and the incident, both were closer to Iranian land than Iraqi land. Go on, print out the map and measure it. Which underlines the point that the British produced border is not a reliable one.
look here:
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/
nick, Hereford,
Anyone notice how the price of oil jumped once this crisis happened? The Iranians are having a difficult time financing a lot of their oil projects due to the international santions that have been placed on them because they refuse to stop their nuclear program. I believe this is just a way for the Iranians to get more money for their oil, by starting a new crisis they drive up the price of oil by scaring investors.
Mike, San Diego, California
The way out is so simple it's laughable.
All Blair has to do is say sorry to Iran and apologise for being in Iranian territorial waters.
The Iranians will have to release the British personnel or lose their standing in the Arab world.
When the Brits are back on-board the Iranians are told in crystal clear language that should they try this again they will be met with overwhelming force in the defence of British ships, personnel and their rights to inspect suspected gun runners.
Does Blair & Britain lose face?
A little.
Does Iran & its President lose face?
A lot.
A win win.
We as a nation then need to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan as quickly as is humanly possible as we are doing little good in either country IMHO.
Derek Fisher, Barrow-in-Furness, UK
As an Iranian who is more American than Iranian now, I want to be the first to apologize for a bunch of aggressive and over the top behavior that the Iranian guard has demonstrated. I will not defend my former country men here in their actions. But for those who are interested in history I will have to stay that the presence of the British so close to the borders Iran-Iraq is enough to make the most comfortable Iranian Jumpy. After all three quarter million Iranian died protecting these merkey watery borders!! That said, I also think this has more to do with the Iranian guard trying to recoup their fellow soilders from the American how ever they can.. apparently even at the cost of starting a war! Iranians as a whole will suffer for this!! sanctions will destroy the weak econonmy of Iran, let alone a war!
Marjan, Albuquerque, New Mexico/ US
"Although the seizure has been widely linked to the taking of five Iranians by US forces in Iraq, Iranian diplomats have ruled this out. They say that there is no relation between the Britons’ seizure and any other bilateral, regional or international issue."
The link was first postulated by Francis Harrison of the BBC from Tehran minutes after their capture. She continued to report her speculation for some time and, after a while, some Iranian internet sites picked up on it as well. Why she did is anybody's guess. She may have been trying to blame the US for the Britons’ seizure because apparently, Iran is never to blame for its actions. It must somehow be the fault of the US. Never mind that Iran had done the same thing only two years ago.
But don't worry. At least they are safe. They will soon release the female member of the group, Faye Turney, because she doesn't have any balls. They will release the others soon after for the same reason.
Johannes, Bangkok, Thailand
"It's the Crude, Dude: War, Big Oil and the Fight for the Planet" is a book written by Canadian journalist Linda Mcquaig and should be required reading for any US or UK kid who is contemplating joining the military.
Gary, Rancho Santa Fe, CA, USA
I agree with some of the post here, the Royal Navy I believe did not provide adequate back up to these sailors ,they were also only armed with small arms, they have been badly let down, but they are most certainly not cowards! To have thrown their lives away needlessly would have been stupid.
I believe we have to go down the diplomatic route and if that fails, then a Naval and air blockade should ensue.
Underestimate the British at your peril, remember the Falklands? We usually lose the first battle we rarely lose the last!
But hopefully common sense will prevail.
Dave, Rugby, Warwickshire
Some interesting comments. In reply to the anti English/US ones, if the iranian people are so innocent why when i watched a RELIGIOUS DOCUMENTARY called "once upon a time in iran" did it contain hundreds of everyday working iranians side by side hundreds of ski mask wearing AK47 weilding maniacs at a religious celebration.
1. At church in England we dont carry machine guns.
2. We dont call for the slaughter of iranian or iraqi people.
3. Our police force would arrest anyone doing either of the above.
I saw no police stopping the people on iranian TV calling for the exicution of 15 unarmed soldiers. I dont believe we should have invaded iraq or had the right to. But lets not forget saddam murderd thousands and no middle east country helped the iraqi people. Nor was iran so concerned for the people of iraq when the fought for 8 years during the persian gulf war.
Jack Graham, Leeds, England,
To Neil Hague, I don't think thats the most educated response I have ever read, but perhaps you should account for the possibility that this woman is being threatened with certain reprecussions for not wearing a hajib. I would much rather wear a head scarf than be forced to undergo torture to be honest.
With regard to Tony Blairs stance, I would say, and I'm sure the families of those captured would agree, that our aim is to return these men and women alive. Thats how diplomacy works in these cases. I don't think we want to kick off a third war in the middle east in 15 years, or I would hope not.
What I would question is, if this sort of tactic has been used by the iranians before, is there not a more tactically strong method for disembarking an ship, without 'being left vulnerable'?
Dave, Sheffield,
What's this nonsense about "Iraqi waters" when the border has not been determined and the area is disputed?
hass, New York, USA
What are you guys doing there so far away from home. Last I checked this is Iran's neighborhood
Jmbo, Washington, DC, USA
It is high time that the UK showed these cowards what it is made of. It is distressing that the response so far does not do merit to the legacy of this great country.
Asim Khan, Bronxville, Pakistan
Once we have an EU constitution and a combined army would we be there anyway?
Anon, CHICHESTER,
THe Brits should immediately break off all diplomatic ties and give the Iranians 1 day to give up the hostages and if not kick some ass till they do - Nothing says please better than a little strategic bombing.
John Higgins, Ottawa, Canada
How is this a war zone ?
Because it is near an OCCUPIED country ? Does that mean France is a war zone, being near Germany ? Is Okinawa a war zone ? Words have specific meanings, to get the correct meaning, use the right word.
And, aren't maritime boundaries disputed all over the world ? China/Japan, U.S./Canada, India/Bangladesh. There's just not WARSHIPS flitting around these other disputed borders.
Tom, Smallville,
What the British need is another Sir Robert Napier solution vis-a-vis Meqdela & Theodore II. At the very least blockade is in order and it has the added benefit of possibly forcing the Iranians to reveal their pre-positioned Silkworms prior to the unavoidable US carrier strikes-marine invasion--none of which would be necessary if the US had not destabilized the region by replacing Sadam with the GOP war profiteers in the first place.
CNH, Houston, USA
Look let me repeat this again for people like Narsi who are apparently not that informed and keep blaming the US and UK for Iran's bad behavior.
Again, there was a little thing called the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein. Remember??? The US kicked Saddam's butt out of there, but stopped short of hanging Saddam Hussein back then and called a cease-fire, predicated on Saddam's good behavior, as judged by the US. We were nice enough to give him a second chance.
Years later, and after countless broken UN resolutions by Iraq, we decided such good behavior never materialised and revoked the cease fire and finished what we should have finished a long time ago. We weren't in the mood to mess around with Saddam's little games anymore. In addition, the UN voted on resolutions vowing to hold Saddam accountable. What is illegal about that? It is all perfectly "legal" but instead you want to defend the lovely Iranian regime. Grow up and use some common sense.
sc, Atlanta, USA
A boarding party, under armed, poorly equipped and nowadays, poorly trained in self-defence, (Royal Marines excluded) is dispatched by a lone, outdated warship, out of sight on a disputed border, in a war zone. The party is then corralled by the small flotilla of a third class navy and made hostages, principally because of the expectation that the country concerned will be too weak willed to respond with any serious measure of force. That countrys purported finest- a young (single?) mother, having been made to wear native clothing is then paraded, in a farcical show, were she sheepishly pays lip service and sympathy to her kidnappers and precisely as predicted by the dim-witted aggressors the even more dim-witted bRITISH Government does and threatens almost nothing. This is an absolute outrage- an unmitigated disgrace. The culmination of years of societal ideals and policies manifested at the front line. Heads must roll, starting with Blair, Britain should be ashamed.
Richard Molloy, Dallas, Texas/USA
Having worked over the past thirty years with the Arabs in and around the Gulf, I am still surprised that the UK and USA have not understood the mentality of those that inhabit the area.
They take pride in being arrogantly ignorant when dealing with other peoples.
I am a Jew, I take pride in listening to the sound of the music of each Country that I have visited.
Whilst it is not down to me, I would pull out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and the EU.
Easy to say, but not easy to do.
It is the fault of previous Governments that we face the problem's.In the opening of our borders. Our National security became a figment of imagination and memory, in which ever order you wish.
Alan Burdes, London, England
It's all so very simple>
ThIs British appeasing government IS NOT FIT FOR PUPOSE. Any purpose.
For God's sake will someone help my country.
Gordon, Worthing, UK
It is clear that Britain should now up the ante through a number of nasty and insidious methods to remind Iran that they will pay a heavy price for their act of piracy. The alternative of limited force is unavailable due to the underfunding of our armed forces by Tony Blair and (the notably silent) Gordon Brown.
It is unlikely that the sailors will be released and we should prepare for a show trial and imprisonment. If our government had any courage, this act should be seen as a casus belli.
If no release is forthcoming, Basra and the southern Iraqi provinces should be scourged of Iranian agents. They can be deported, imprisoned or killed. Leave the choice up to them. We should also start to fund opposition in the country with the stated aim of overthrowing this vile regime.
Bring home to the Revolutionary Guards that escalation has a price!
Philip Chaston, London, UK
The sailors got rid of their GPS device? Why? If they were in Iraqi waters the device would have shown this. Why get rid of the GPS unit - unless they were in Iranian waters ...
sadsds, Birmingham, UK
You have let your navy get too soft, i.e: underequipped. It's not the first time: remember the Falklands, the lack of effective air defence...what was it then, Sea Dart missles when the navy needed Phalanx? I'm relatively sure the training is there, very British to be good at that, but not the spending and political will (AKA Rules of Engagement). Sad. And they'll have nukes next time. No more peace dividend...
Doogle, Rennes, France
In this article, I notice that the incident was described only as happening "... in Iraqi waters...". In other words, Dominic Kennedy, you are trying to manouvre the truth out of the Shaat al Arab where the seizure took place.
Actually, the Shaat al Arab is nothing more than a river estuary and, as you admit, "...it was in shallow waters...". What is more significant, though, is that it was an area siezed by Saddam Hussein in the 1970's which originally was in Iranian control anyway.
How precious then to say that Britain and the US are there to "free" everybody from Saddam's dictatorship but then to refuse to return siezed territories to Iran. Or, to put it another way, given that fact, for Britain to then assert control of the Shaat al Arab is tantamount to a declaration of war against Iran.
Douglas Chalmers, Melbourne, Australia
Britain and Usa are not able to take on Iran alongside iraq and afghanistan, their troops are stretched to the limit in afghanistan. And in Iraq the US struggle to control the capital.
Iran simply cannot be attacked at this moment, acknowlged by the US senate and Tony Blair that it would not be "wise" to do so.
Personally Im just loving this stand off, because Iran does not care so much about diplomacy and the US and Britain are depleted.
Ahmed Hirsi, Burao, Somalia
As much as I, as an American, have lost respect for Tony Blair since 9/11 (due to his lapdog status with Dubya), at least he didn't send a high number of Her Majesty's Armed Forces to Iraq at the expense of protecting British interests around the world. Now, if Blair wants to ensure that his Labour Party, in the future, has the respect of the UK in foreign affairs, he'd prepare Her Majesty's equivalent of the US Special Forces to go to Tehran and ensure that Iran never abducts another British soldier or subject again.
If Dubya would only think like that...
Otis Boone, Sacramento, California, USA
Enough is Enough already. Obviously Iran wants a confict so give them want they want and get it over with already so the rest of the world can go back to living in peace. Where is the British courage? Weakness only will embolden this type of acts. If nothing is done about this it will only continue again.
mike, NJ, USA, NY
Blair is apparently not of the same calibre as Thatcher.
munro, hamburg, germany
Don't forget that Iran held american hostages for 444 days.
Thanks, Carter.
John, Lafayette, USA/Louisiana
1) Whether the Brits were in Iranian waters is irrelevent because, as someone said, a warship cannot lawfully be boarded.
2) Iran has publicly announced it wishes to annihilate Isreal and rid the earth of the Isreali nation.
3) The US will not be able to act or defend itself soon because the US presidency race will be won by those who wish to have a picnic where everyone holds hands and smiles at one another.
4) Iran questioned whether holocaust ever took place.
I guarantee that Iran does not wish to have peace with the West. It wants power and domination. It wants to forcably expand its beliefs globally. Iran will poke and prod until someone strikes back, causing a new world war, the likes we have never seen.
It's sad to see so many americans who do not understand the entire situation say that we should not be in the middle east. The sad reality is that WW2 has long been forgotten and the lessons that should have been learned are being forgotten.
mike, gumbo,
To all our friends in the UK, our thoughts and prayers are with you, your captured countrymen/women, and their families.
The time has come for a forceful response, standing up to these Iranian thugs. And we'll be right beside you, as you have been for us.
God bless.
Ross, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Not if, but when (looking at the weekend of April 6th) Iran is attacked and a wider conflageration commences, then the Russians will sit back and smile. You see, 40% of the world's energy resources flow through the Gulf, which will almost certainly be closed. Russia's oil and natural gas exports will then replace this percentage, and Putin will have checkmated everyone.
I don't think you all realize how catastrophically stupid the US, UK and Israeli governments are being right about now...
Dan, Los Angeles, California
When will Britain, and the US for that matter, get serious about fighting this war? Shame on our governments and politicians for leaving our soldiers out on a limb. Our politicians are so cowardly, they are willing to sacrefice our soldiers for their own political convenience. Soon they will leave it up to the public to fight the enemy on our own. And we will.
Bee, Houston, TX
Why dont the captured British sailors show some 'Spunk'?for starters refuse to wear a scarf!refuse to eat, their captors would immediately start to feel fear!as for eating with plastic knives and forks,is this because of the westerner being Najess?I had a friend married to an Iranian Swiss educated Doctor and her family separated the crockery and cutlery from theirs after she had eaten from them .Continuous relentless pressure from the UK government will prevail.
olivebranch, brighton.Sussex, UK.
Iran has learned from the North Koreans how to pull a tantrum and force international engagement. Solana will be kissing and making up in no time. Jimmy Carter, call your office.
Michael Z, Chicago, IL, USA
"We want Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead." Spoken by Theodore Roosevelt.
bubba, seattle, wa
Great piece of reporting my friend. However, care to balance that with that the other side is saying? Remember, you guys said the same thing about Al Q and WMDs in Iraq?? By the way, whatever happened to Al Q? We miss them, get the CIA and MI5 to bring them back ..deal?
Deja Vu, York,
I was furious, but not surprised, when i heard about this incident, which in effect is an act of war. Furious at the iranians, but also the british government, MOD, & the CO's on HMS Cornwall, for letting our Marines down. The actions of the iranians should not have come as a surprise, considering all that has lead up to this, we've had plenty of warnings, we should have been alert & prepared & properly equiped to defend our service personel, But, oh no! as usual that age old british disease strikes once again, Mind Boggling Complacency !
So, some brief advice for our Senior Officers & Government.
Do not use defenceless inflatables at great distances from the main ship, especially when "you Know" there are hostiles in the area.
Better still go to V.T. ltd, (formerly Vosper Thorneycroft), (No i dont work for them), & order some New Gun Boats, some thing our Navy is lacking, which will have a shallow draught, & better firepower than the iranians, & be prepared to use them !!!
M. Prier, Basingstoke, Hant's, GB.
There have been dozens of comments made by American readers suggesting that the Royal Navy is incompetent and the British attitude to the intrusion into Iraqi waters by Iranian gunboats is lacking in backbone. The general thrust of the comments, it seems are that Britain should permit the Royal Navy to start W W 3.
Might I remind our friends across the Atlantic Ocean about the incident when an American spy plane was flying off mainland China when it was challenged by two CPR fighter aircraft. The US aicraft was forced to land, had it not it would have been shot out of the sky with the loss of 14 crew. The crew were held by China and accused of spying, which they were, it was a CIA plane.
Did the USA fire off any Patriot missiles into Beijing ! No !
Eventually the crew were released, the aircraft was completely stripped, important bits removed and the aircraft returned to the USA in crates.
Not much difference is there ? Just sit down and cool it.
Phil de Buquet, Newport, England
It's interesting to consider how the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have given U.S. war planners open air corridors on both the east and west sides of Iran. Unchallenged overflight is a great tactical advantage for surprise and greatly increases the possible directions from which air strikes on Iran may originate. If UN coalition assets within Iraq and Afghanistan and the Gulf were utilized, a cruise missile / bomber strike could be off the ground and over targets inside Iran in a matter of minutes with sorties originating from multiple directions. Less time in the air equals less time for detection and even less for reaction. More directions yields more confusion.
To suggest that G.W.Bush didn't have Iran on his mind when he made the case to invade Iraq is a bit self-deceiving, I'd say. Iran has been THE rogue element in the Middle East for years. In my opinion, Iraq and Afghanistan are simply side shows, pretexts for establishing beachheads and precursors to the main event.
Thomas, Atlanta, GA, USA
Gentlemen,
When you address the Iranian government, please do not refer to them as "Iran". Iranian people have been trying to get rid this regime for a long time. But hefty contracts with Europeans kept them on their feet during 80s and 90s. Nobody cared how the people of Iran were treated during this time while Ayatollah Straw was laughing all the way to the bank.
I don't want to get into how the Mullahs got into power in 1979 but BBC and other European channels beaming down into Tehran on a note of 24 hours a day non-stop might have had something to do with. Suffice it to say that in 1978, 99% of Iranians had never heard of Khomeini. So now the same Mullahs are biting your behinds and you are all up in arms. Don't be yelling too hard. A cold shower will do. By the way if you like to have a piece of the Mullahs, by all means. Come and take them back to London. We will be glad to hand them all to you.
Oh, if it makes you feel better, I condemn this act along with many other acts.
Davoud, Houston, Texas
Still more majestic shalt thou rise
More dreadful from each foreign stroke
Chris Leger, New Hampshire, USA
I imagine the Indian ship captain can verify that the Iranians are lying. Or did we just miss the part where the Iranians arrested him for anchoring in Iranian waters? As a general rule, though, don't trust the people who dress up hostages and force them to read televised messages against their government. They're the people who don't have the facts on their side. How anyone could sympathize with such people is beyond me.
David, Arizona, USA
There are two interesting and conflicting analyses here:
1. The Ahmadinejad administration is losing political support at home following the collapse of their nuclear program and Russia's pulling back the fuel needed to develop weapons-grade material. Therefore, Ahmadinejad needs an enemy and, with the pride of his 1979 US Embassy hostages still brimming in his ego, felt like a few British sailors would fit that bill well. Doing nothing in this case may continue to forment the negative political forces within Iran to force the hand of the administration.
2. The Ahmadinejad administration has devolved operationally into a paranoid mess following the defection by several senior military and intelligence leaders to the US. The most extreme factions within the administration have literally resorted to kidnapping and extortion as their new "strategy" for diplomacy . In this case, we are dealing with Talibanesque leaders for whom direct conflict will become the likely option.
Anthony, Alpharetta, Georgia
The only problem with trying to be a nice guy is no one is scared of you. Want to win the War on Terror/ Make the bad guys understand that no matter what they do, we will track them down and hurt them worse. Make them understand what true terror is. If we give an inch, they will think they are winning and will escalate the violence towards the West. Look at their stated goals, nowhere does it say live in peace and help others.
Chance, Salina, KS
Being a former military man myself, who serviced in the British Army, doing active service in the Malayan Jungles during the 1950's, and as such I feel great sympathy for these UK Troops now taken prisoner... But I now ask; where was their back-up???? Surely someone failed badly in their line of duty not giving better protection, and allowing these Iranian hijackers to get anywhere near our troops, especially after a similar type capture took place previously... surely?????.....
One thing about this con trick, (even though so deploreable,) but it does help prove that these Iranian hijackers are just as devious when it comes to pulling con tricks as Chancellor Gordon Brown was, when he upped the lower rate of income tax (from 10% to 20% recently,) causing many in the lower wage bracket (in the UK,) to suffer more poverty /pay more in taxes surely????...
Stanley Embling, Scunthorpe , Lincolnshire, England....
1. British unmanned reconnaissance plane RPV violated Iranian airspace in northeastern Abadan in June 2004 and was hit by Irania