Paul Martin in Rafah and James Hider in Jerusalem
Star musicians and your favourite Times writers at the Albert Hall

A new, Islamist mini-state was emerging in the Gaza Strip yesterday, as victorious Hamas forces surrounded and blew up their secular rivals’ last strongholds in bitter fighting that threw the entire future of the Middle East peace process into doubt.
Supporters of the Fatah movement fled to Egypt or surrendered as Hamas leaders predicted that they would control the entire coastal strip by the end of the week.
European Union chiefs said that the deployment of an international force should be urgently considered to curb the bloodshed.
In Gaza, Hamas strengthened its grip as its fighters surrounded die-hard Fatah supporters in isolated, last-stand strongholds. In Khan Younis in the south, Hamas guerrillas tunnelled under a Fatah security base and blew it up with its defenders still inside. Those refusing to give up in other besieged bastions were given two days to surrender.
”This is a victory for Islam and I hope we will build our Islamic state,” said Abu Qatada, a masked 22-year-old Hamas fighter, standing outside the smouldering ruin of the Fatah security base. “We must now complete the job,” he said.
In a symbolic moment, a large crowd of Gaza civilians demonstrating for an end to the internecine fighting came under fire from unidentified attackers who killed at least two marchers.
Political leaders of Fatah were also being hunted, and several hundred members of a Fatah-affiliated clan gave themselves up to Hamas militiamen after a deadly ambush. Fifty Fatah policemen crossed the border with Egypt and gave up their weapons to Egyptian troops after their positions came under Hamas rocket attacks.
“The situation is very, very bad,” Maher Mekhdad, a high-ranking Fatah official in Gaza, told The Times by mobile phone after his well-defended house was overrun by Hamas gunmen. “Hamas is going for total control of all the Gaza Strip. They want to push us into oblivion.”
Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian President and leader of Fatah, lamented the “madness” that was unfolding. At least 33 people were killed yesterday, bringing the toll since Saturday to 81 as the violence escalates into what many Palestinians see as all-out civil war in Gaza.
The United Nations said that it would scale back its operations in Gaza after two of its Palestinian employees were killed and two others seriously wounded in crossfire.
Benni Eilon, an extreme right-wing member of the Israeli parliament, said that the fighting would put paid to Palestinian plans for an independent state. “The Fatah is diminishing in front of our eyes, and a group of gangsters is taking over. ”
Follow our three athletes' progress in their preparations for the London Triathlon, and pick up training tips and more
Enjoy screenings of all the classic films you love, plus take advantage of two-for-one tickets
We explore leisure activities that are safe and suitable for all of the family
Times Online's new TV show helps you make the right decisions for your pet
Read our exclusive 100 Years of Fleming and Bond interactive timeline, packed with original Times articles and reviews
The latest travel news plus the best hotels and gadgets for business travellers
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles


Overseas contacts and local business information

A treasure trove of baubles, booty and stylish quests


£129,500
Bentley Edinburgh
£79,850
Mercedes-Benz of Northampton
£26,995
Unit 1, Woodfield Business Unit, Kidderminster Road, Ombersley, Worcester.
Great car insurance deals online
90k + Bonus + Options
Confidential
London
£23,716 +
Highways Agency
National
£
£43,405 - £48,228 pa
Notting Hill Housing
London
£30,000 base, £100,000 OTE
Riches Consulting
London/South
with annexe accommodation and 5.25 acres
£1,100,000
Beautiful Gardens w/ stunning Thames Views
Studios £33K, 1 Beds £60K, 2 beds £79K
Mortgages, bank acc & money transfers to help you buy abroad
Explore mystical Jordan
From £1030 for 7nts 4*
to USA's Most Cosmopolitan City; San Francisco!
£POA
Book Now for Winter 08/09 and Get 10% off!
Great travel insurance deals online
Six years after 911 and still no one understands Shi'ah and Sunni. The Palestinians are Sunni, even though Hamas may receive funds from Iran, the fact is that they hate the Shi'ah regime there almost as much as Israel. Syria behaves the same way, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
The West has driven enemies together, Palestinians living with Israeli intimidation don't become sheep, they become Hamas members. Fatah in cooperating with Israel's establishment of the Bantustans on the West Bank and Gaza has become exactly what the Bantustans in South Africa became, corrupt, petty and territorial. Unfortunately there is no Palestinian Nelson Mandela sitting in Israeli jails.
A bold move might, and I say MIGHT save it. A West Bank Palestinian State on most of the pre-67 land might still convince Palestinians there is a future. But we may have come down the road too far for that.
Robert, Canberra,
Why can't people just understand the pain of losing someone close to them. People just can not considerate about other people's feeling. War can not bring peace and a piece of someone's property brings more war. Sharing is what they can do. War causes Misery, Pain and death. We should learn to treasure life and treat it with respect.
Ryan Lam, Melbourne, Victoria
As a regualr visitor to Jerusalem and the West Bank in my senior role with an aid agency, seeing every time a further terrible deterioration, increasing poverty and despair among ordinary people, I weep over this situation.
The Palestinian PEOPLE, not the nutters (they deserve everything they get and more) have suffered enough from Israeli oppression and deprivation sponsored by the Americans primarily.
They do not deserve to have any remaining hope ripped apart from within.
edwardingle, chesham,
Israel needs to understand that it now has an islamo fascist state next to it. Can Israel given its nature and history really tolerate a state thats leaders are lackeys of Iran and have recently conducted a rocket war in the North ? i cant see it. israels failure recently in lebanon is a direct cause of this terrorist triumph. It has encouraged them to be bold. Israel will soon face rocket attacks form Gaza too.
She must act and she must win, sooner than later in Gaza.
mark orourke, Dunstable, England
To those who are saying Israel doesn't want peace.
Of course they want peace....a piece of someone else's land!
Stanzler, New York, US
Why would anybody be surprised that Hamas has fired on peaceful Palestinian demonstrations? Oh, I guess that would be because they've been saying that all they care about is "resisting the occupation". Well, guess what, there is absolutely nothing more natural & predictable than witnessing a terrorist organization killing its own "brothers". Happens pretty much unfailingly.... This must be extremely distressing to all Palestininans. But all I can tell them is: given that your only parties are Fatah & Hamas, what KIND of state were you even hoping for and on what grounds?!
Dan, Manchester,
All this infighting amongst the Palestinians is fodder for the Israelis to deny any chance of negotiatng anything, as if they ever were sincere about anything in the first place.
Also fodder to blame Iran so that some excuse can be found by the neocons and Aipac to blast a few bombs on them.
Let's face it, unless the root causes are addressed, the problems will only multiply.
The root causes are the Israeli rogues and the rogue that sponsors them.
Moshe, montreal, canada
And Israel is meant to follow a "Peace Process" with these madmen? How would you like them as your neighbours?
Peace Process? What have you all been smoking? And can I have some please?
Nicholas Stevens, Clayton, CA, USA
On today's BBC News 24 Jeremy Bowen, the Middle East Correspondent blamed Israel for the current violence in Gaza. (June 14th 17.29GMT). Now where have I heard that before? You know, where the Jews are responsible for all the problems of the world, including their enemies hatred of them? Mein Kampf perhaps? The Nazi Racial Laws? Mosley's speech calling WW2 - the Jew's War? Or more in keeping with today's BBC left wing world view - Stalin's notorious Doctors Plot. It can't be too long before Jeremy or Orla Guerin front a new series on the Protocols of Zion or the Zinoviev Letter...as fact. The BBC might even run a new gameshow to prove that the Holocaust was a Zionist myth.....or may be they should just own up to their bias and prejudice and stop pretending to be impartial and fair minded.
Richard Martin, Hereford, UK
Spare us, oh Lord, biblical excerpts published in the Times purported to be relevant to the current middle east situation. Totally inapplicable, totally irrelevant and somewhat annoying to people who think instead of develoing calluses on their kneess resulting from certain emotional exercise.
dave g, los angeles, california
The fact that Hamas is willing to kill their fellow countrymen at a moment's notice defines who they are: nothing but criminals and murderers. If Hamas acts like this with their own people, what wil they be like if they invade other countries. They Un should assemble a larger international force, totally blockade Gaza and then invade from all sides, neutralize Hamas and then completely evacuate Gaza
Earl Hickey, Brookfield, illinois
I am very sad to see muslims kill muslims. What do the muslims all over the world say about this? Whom do they support? I was told "ISLAM" means peace. When I was 30 years old, I realize that "PEACE" is not for so-called "infidels" (or non-brothers). Now I am 39 years old. I realize that "PEACE" does not exist in their brotherhood either. Why? Why? Why? Why would this happen when I tried to convert to Islam? I read Koran every week... It seems muslims are not following the Koran.
Hamas, Hezbolla, Iran, Al-qaida, Taliban, muslim, Islam, Mohamed, ... they scare me to death now :(
Howard from Michigan, Houghton, Michigan
Its not HAMASTAN ! Its now NON-Corrupt CLEAN PALESTINIAN LAND !
Massad Abu-Toameh, Jerusalem, Israel
Let us be very clear what Hamas offer their people.
Already books are being burnt.
Internet cafes destroyed
Woman forced to wear the veil.
Woman's schools closed
Dissent is not permitted
Clean - Corruption under Hamas is close to as widespread and insiduous as under Arafat.
They throw prisoners, in handcuffs, of roofs. Shoot doctors and patients in hospitals.
The next totalitarian state is arriving on platform Gaza. How much do the poor suffering people have to continue.
Jo, Birmingham, UK
How dare K. Urban of London equate Israelis with Nazis!
Don't forget the terroist attacks of the Fatah, hamas &m other groups all over all the years which killed innocent
children in their classrooms & citizens trying to lead normal, everyday lives. Who has abused who? If this is abuse, then they are now abusing each other - brother attacking brother.
Over the years Israel has made every effort to come to terms of peace with the Palestinians. Was it ever really serious for the latter?
Who knows what will happen now to the people kidnapped & being held in Gaza (including an Israeli soldier who seems to have been forgotten by everyone, except Israel).
It is obvious that the majority of people in Gaza only want to be able to live normal lives, but are being prevented from doing so by their own leadership, be it Fatah or Hamas.
Rose, London, U.K.
Hamas' eminence to power also reflects American and Israeli foreign policy failures in the middle east. George Bush is not committed to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process because of his pre-occupation with Iraq, hence the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in both Palestine and Lebanon. The Palestinians certainly have no confidence in Abbas and Co. who they see as western puppets.
jonas, Abuja, Nigeria
The comment about the title being propaganda is so inaccurate it is actually funny. Hamas are a religiously inspired group, saying that they are intending to create an islamic state, which they themselves admit to, is an entirely accurate comment when the party in question is on the verge of seizing power.
Also a boycott is a perfectly reasonable way of dealing with a party who's belief system is incmpatible to your own. The west did not boycott Hamas due to their religious conviction, it boycotted Hamas on the basis that it's principles are based on the violent destruction of another state.
Jay, London, UK
Act:3:12: And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Act:3:13: The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Act:3:14: But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act:3:15: And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act:3:16: And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Act:3:17: And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
Act:3:18: But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Act:3:19: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act:3:20: And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act:3:21: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Act:3:22: For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act:3:23: And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Act:3:24: Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Act:3:25: Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act:3:26: Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities
David R. Liles, Chessington, England
There had been around 70.000 "Fatah" fighters but where have they been in the fight? Only some die-hard loyalists to Abbas/Arafat did not want to agree on the Hamas. They were left alone. It was very easy to overrun these isolated "Fatah" clans and groups within days. The conquest of Gaza was shown in the elections not today - that is the simple truth. Gaza fell to the Hamas long ago - it is only obvious now. Abbas knew, the Israelis knew, the USA knew this would happen. So stop shedding tears on the Fatah. What next? The Gaza strip is unable to make a future on it's own. What will Hamas do? Conquer Lebanon? Egypt? The West Bank may soon fall to the Kingdom of Jordania again. There is no "State of Palestine" in the future? Probably not. Sometimes victories have their kind of backfiring...
Dirk R Bode, Hamburg, Germany,
where is all the outrage, the calls for UN peacekeepers, the calls for ceasefires, that accompanied Israel's war of defense in lebanon last year? where is the vilification of bloodthirsty hamas who care so much for their people that they steal money meant for food and use it to buy guns, then use those guns to fire on unarmed demonstratoers?
When israelis protested the lebanon war in jerusalem, therewere police there protecting them - not firing on them. what kind of democracy do you claim gaza is, when gazans can;t even show peaceful dissent to their govt?
Clearly noone cares about the palestinians, all liberal anti-war bleeding hearts and arab millionaires are only interested when there is a chance to bash israel.
amanda, london, uk
I fear this is the begining of the end...
Gindi, Northampton, England
This is another example that corruption (Fatah) does not pay...
mike, NYC,
No radical Islamic state Hamastan could ever be tolerated by Israel!!! Its destruction (even by carpet bombing on military targets) is certain to happen.
dave, Ratland,
So now Isreal finds itself surrounded by Iran, which controls Hamas. Last year W gave Isreal the green light to wipeout Hamas in south Lebenon and Ohlmert did not have the will to do so. Because of this, Iran has gained a tremendous advantage and can wage a region wide war by proxy from the Mediterraean to India. This forces the US to respond directly against Iran or find itself surrounded in Iraq. Do we have the will to protect ouselves?
Richard Cross, Baraboo, Wisconsin
If John of Denver had had the patience to read your article, and other linked ones, before he "lost it" and accused yourselves of Islamophobia, he would be aware that the headline was an accurate one.
Has John of Denver, Colorado ever been in the Middle East? Is he even aware of the ongoing fight between those in the Arab world who are trying to build, or defend, secular states and values and those who only accept the concept of a islamic state under sharia law;preferably a revival of a state (caliphate) covering the whole middle east today and the world tomorrow. The men of Hamas no more represent the wishes of the Palestinians than do the murderous gangs in Iraq represent the wishes of the majority of Iraqi's.
As to his link with communism 30 years ago, the Berlin wall only came down 18 years ago and I doubt that the inhabitants of the old East Bloc would trade their present freedom for the ideology that was and is dictatorial Russian imperialism dressed up as a faith.
aniel Cramer, Brenderup, Denmark
Let them sort out their problems locally, BUT DON'T COME ASKING THE WEST FOR MONEY TO RESURRECT WHATEVER IS LEFT.
jIM t, sOLIHULL, West Mids
You can blame israel all you want... the simple fact is that in 1970 there were 250,000 people in Gaza, and today, only 35 years later, there are 1.5 million! When people multiply this fast violence is the only outcome... Oh, and by the way, it is surprising the so many people from the "liberated" gaza strip now beg to move to the "occupied" west bank... I guess Israeli occupation is really that bad...
erez, jerusalem,
John from Denver said:
"The articles title is sooo biased.
Just replace "Islamist" with "Communist" and go back 30 years.
Now ask yourself, is there a difference?"
Yet you singularly fail to explain what is sooo biassed about the title: 'Gaza lurches towards Islamist mini-state'. Perhaps if it was entitled: 'Gaza lurches towards Evil Terrorist Islamist mini-state' then you might have a point, but it doesn't, so your crazy rant is invalid.
I think there's something on your shoulder, John. It looks to be shaped a bit like a chip...
Sam Nicholson, Basingstoke,
Another blow against reason and possible sanity and a small triumph for madness and mob rule. The sad thing is that Islamist fundamentalist states are a step back to the Stone Age and only hurt the the very people they purport to serve. John from Denver made the perfect analogy. Suppose we replace Islamist with Communist. I am currently, and thankfully temporarily, living in Russia, in St Peersburg 20 years AFTER the fall of communism and boy, things are so bad I really cannot imagine how anyone could have lived under Communism except that, like those in an Islamist state, the choices are removed and you are left only with life....or death.
David , Manchester, UK
Muslim must NEVER harm other Muslims. Yeah right. Which Arab state needs enemies when you have friends like Hammas?
Mark Borthwick, London, England
Benny Elon is undoubtedly a right-winger. But is it his prominent membership in the Knesset's Christian Allies Caucus that marks him as "extremist"?
Barry, Addlestone, Surrey
It's interesting to note the total lack of interest by other Arab states to help sort out this infighting. It is a clear illustration of the lack of unity between Arabs. I lived in Jaffa for two years surrounded by Arab neighbours. There was no hatred stronger than that between the Christian and Moslem neighbours. Jewish residents got on well with everyone. Israel wants to live in peace and now the Palestinians have lost any hope of having a state as they cannot be trusted to live peacefully. The present situation shows this.
Roz, Kingston, Surrey
Politically humiliated, democratically defeated and now militarily routed. After almost 60 years of secular incompetence, corruption, and capitulation on every significant article of Palestinian Statehood, Fatah (the great victory???) the newly discovered prodigy of the West is hopefully on its way to extinction. I
Is Hamas the answer, the solution? It's too early to tell. But at least it still believes in a Palestinian State and the right of return. When negotiating with the extremely formidable, shrewd and tough Israelis. The Palestinians, as difficult as it is for our liberal sensibilities to accept, have a much better negotiator in Hamas than the "last lot".
Hamzah Mustafa, London, UK
Since Hamas refuses even to coexist with Fatah, who are the same ethnic group and religion, then their apologists' claims that they are prepared to coexist with Israel can be dismissed as fantasy
Cynosarges, London, UK
Every cloud a silver lining?
Two mini states, Fatahstan and Hamastan.
If Isreal can create a solid peace with Fatahstan, Hamas will be out in the cold and gone.
Dominic, Manchester, UK
The articles title is sooo biased.
Just replace "Islamist" with "Communist" and go back 30 years.
Now ask yourself, is there a difference?
Islamist is equated with terror and i am disgusted by slant of the
article.
Hammas were elected fair and square. and then boycotted, and
then forced to form a government with Israeli funded fatah.
What would you do?
Who gives a crap that you are Islamofobic?
Report the facts....don't put a slant on it, from the start.....by outputting such a title.
John, Denver, Colorado
This demonstrates again that these people have no desire for peace. If they can't kill Israelis, they are happy to turn on their 'muslim brothers' and blow them up as well. This totally undermines the clamour of western muslims who claim to support their brothers against the terrible west . The vast majority of these brothers are being killed by other brothers, who appear to hate each other as much as they despise the Western world. How can you deal with an organisation that has no wish to put an end to bloodshed?
Dominic, derby,
Not sure about why the west gets any blame for this, If a political party in this country used such tactics (military force against another party) it would be critisised heavily, and not recognised. Hamas have now shown that they are not a democratic party and this is nothing more than a coup, Israel and the west must now protect thier interests, and should not feel guilty for doing so, as the governemnts are elected to do just that protect the interests of thier people.
Ben, folkestone, uk
I'm afraid that after the years of corruption and incompetence under Arafat it was only going to be a matter of time before the Islamists took over. Arafat and the inability of the Palestinian people to dispose of him well after his sell by date had been reached, is the ultimate cause of the unfolding disaster.
WA, London,
Church and state should be kept separate. Otherwise this highly dangerous cocktail ofpolitics guided by religion and violenec that is supposedly in the name of god will bring the country and I fear that area into war. Not that this would be be far from the norm, the Arabs and Israelis have been at each others throats for the past fifty years.
Tom Hreben, Eastbourne,
Guns instead of butter ! The true colours of the Palestinian Hamas and Fatah movements are on display to the world. The strong and clear preference is to spend what little they have on weapons, killing and maiming wherever they can to achieve their goal, not of peace but of power.
If the Palestinian government of Hamas really cared about Palestinians they would use their resources wisely in health service, in education, in providing electricity, cleaning up their cities. The reality is that they have no interest in that, intentionally neglecting to improve their plight and pretending to be the poor victims of Israeli and western powers policies. Maybe the man in the street is a victim, but he is more a victim of his own governments policies than anything else. Maybe the world will now recognise that old tactic of blaming everyone else and start to understand a bit more of why Israel rests insecure on whatever sham promises the Palestinian governments offer.
S Zucker, La Bastide de besplas, France
I agree with Paul of Guildford that we must be adult in the West and offer a realistic alternative, a way out, without humiliation and conditions.
But the whole policy of Israel and the US has been one of humiliation and degradation of the Palestinians using every possible method, military, economic, Public relations, whilst pretending to be otherwise.
In other words, doing a Blair.
K. Urban, London, Nazis abused Israelis, who abused the Palestinians
Its not HAMASTAN ! Its now NON-Corrupt CLEAN PALESTINIAN LAND !
Massad Abu-Toameh, Jerusalem, Israel
Hamas are nothing but pure evil.All this nonsense about speaking for God,maybe they should read the Koran which abhors violence.
They are brutal gangsters and,its hardly suprising Israel has acted the way it has.
This is why the civilised world keeps church and state separate.
J Currie, Londonistan,
I see the desperation myth is still alive in Britain. Blowing up houses, throwing civilians off the top of buildings, atacking the wounded in hospitals, using "TV" posters as camouflage for attacks (putting all journalists at risk), Dozens of civilians murdered, including children - these are the actions of "desperate" people? Desperate in the sense of Ma Baker, perhaps. And some of our academics would have us deal with the perpetrators of such methods, on the grounds that they were elected, while cutting all ties with the fully functioning state next door. What does it take to wake such people up?
Richard, Preston, UK
Blair claims he wants to take a leading role in middle east understanding. Well he had his chance and missed it badly when he turned his back on Hamas following their victory in fledgling elections. Instead of helping Palestine out of years of turmoil and isolation, instead of providing a path towards a more secure democracy and greater confidence for the future, the door was firmly closed, the people of Palestine were put under economic siege, and desperation became the only option. Then the disastrous miscalculation with the invasion of Lebanon confirmed that the West was not serious about a balanced peace. Are we really surprised at the outcome in both countries? Does Blair feel any guilt at all? Extremism will not be stopped by confrontation - we must be adult in the West and offer a realistic alternative, a way out, without humiliation and conditions. Let us help and not punish a way forwards: good ideas, good examples, backed by actions, will defeat bad ideas.
Paul, Guildford, UK
Good!!!!! What have Fatah ever done for the Palestinians. Their negotiations for the last 20 years or so have led to nothing.
Yasser Arafat did nothing for the Palestinians. He paid lip service for their well being and was a corrupt leader.
However, I think Hamas should recognize Israel and stop all militant activities. Then the ball would in Israel's court.
i also think a 2 state solution is dead, as it is just not viable due to Israel's land grab via settlements.
Tim, Bedford, U.K
Terrible news
A.T. Martin, Warsaw, Poland
Religion of peace?
Sure...
Andrew Murray, London, UK
The Peace Process is never going to work under such unstable conditions. Plenty of analysts have been saying this but Western media chose to ignore it and give press only to those people who said they were aiming to revitalize the Peace Process. The reality on the ground is a slew of conflicts that are not going to be resolved with an arbitrary treaty or an Israeli pull-out from the West Bank that is focused more at giving Palestinians independence rather than guaranteeing Israeli security. The entire reason the Israeli military has been in the West Bank for 40 years is to provide that security! It is absurd to force Israel into a peace agreement when it is quite clearly at war with Hamas!
Joshua, New Brunswick, New Jersey
Is Israel supposed to now restore electricity and other services to a mini islamic state that seeks its destruction?
Felix Drost, Amsterdam, nl
Maybe giving them all those guns wasnt such a great idea after all...
Ludwig, London,