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From The Sunday Times

August 19, 2007

Rudy plays the security card: ID for all tourists

Sarah Baxter, Washington

EVERY foreigner in America, including British visitors, would be required to carry an ID card bearing photograph and fingerprints under plans drawn up by Rudolph Giuliani, the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination.

Giuliani is hoping to cement his status as the Republican favourite by promising to enforce immigration and border controls, drawing on expertise in combating crime from his time as mayor of New York. He announced last week that all foreigners, including holiday-makers, would be obliged to carry a “tamper-proof” biometric card, which could be issued at ports of entry.

“If you don’t have that card, you get thrown out of the country,” Giuliani said. He intends to call it a Safe card (for secure authorised foreign entry).

The proposal plays to his reputation for being tough on terrorism and shores up his credentials on immigration, but at the price of a row over civil liberties.

“The question is: in what circumstances will people be asked for their IDs?” said Jay Stanley, a privacy expert at the American Civil Liberties Union. “Will dark-skinned foreigners be asked for their IDs while a Caucasian person isn’t?” Opponents also believe it could be costly, cumbersome and could affect trade and tourism.

Giuliani said: “I did it back in 1994 with welfare people. It was a big, big, horrible thing that I was doing. I was asking welfare people to be biometrically identified by their fingerprints.

“It worked. It got rid of the duplicates and triplicates, people who were getting welfare at three different places.”

Giuliani has a liberal history of supporting immigration, which Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts and a leading rival for the Republican nomination, is trying to twist against him. Romney accused Giuliani last week of running New York as a “sanctuary” for illegal immigrants while mayor, provoking bitter ripostes about Romney’s own record as governor of the most left-wing state in America.

Under Giuliani’s plan, illegal immigrants would be allowed to obtain a card, work and ultimately become citizens - a route to legitimacy derided by some hardline Republicans as an “amnesty”. But Giuliani’s success as a former prosecutor and mayor who cracked down on criminals has given him unique credibility. He has vowed to strengthen patrols along the most porous parts of the border with Mexico and deport illegal immigrants who have been convicted of drug dealing and other crimes.

The intensity of the clash between Giuliani and Romney comes as the former mayor is proving his durability as the Republican favourite, despite many predictions of his demise at the hands of social conservatives.

Fred Siegel, author of The Prince of the City, a biography of Giuliani, said: “I feel I’m in the ‘I told you so’ position. People didn’t realise how good he is at what he does. He is a tough guy.”

Giuliani has a 10-point lead over Fred Thompson, the Hollywood actor and former Tennessee senator and his nearest rival for the nomination. Thompson is expected to enter the race officially after Labour Day, September 4, and spent last week gathering support in Iowa, an early voting state. But Thompson has lost some of the momentum and excitement that surrounded early predictions of his White House run, although he still has the potential to unite conservatives and take the lead.

Romney trails in fourth place in national polls, but remains strong in key states such as Iowa and New Hampshire and is hoping for early success there to propel him to victory in the Republican primaries.

Tom Edmonds, a Republican consultant who is supporting Giuliani, believes the party is beginning to take a good look at which candidate is the most electable. “We can be hard-nosed and lose or make the camp bigger and increase our chance of winning. The party realises it has to do more than ‘turn out the base’. It has to reach for the undecided voter and turn out the centre.”

A poll by Rasmussen last week showed Giuliani would beat Hillary Clinton in a head-to-head race by 47-40 points, a wider margin than any other Republican candidate. He has also won support by taking the fight to the Democrats – chiding them, for instance, for being too politically correct to mention Islamic terrorism in their televised debates.

Wow, what did they do, link this to some far-left crackpot website? What's the big deal. You come into a country and you have to have a form of ID. YOU ALREADY NEED DOCUMENTATION. The variety is too wide and easily forged. To the loons who are claiming this is some hysterical response to the fear of terrorism: It is YOU who is hysterical and full of fear. It is YOU who is the reactionary. I do not live in fear of being killed by a terrorist, but terrorism is a reality and part of today's world, and you have to deal with it. Every country supposedly knows who's coming in. This is the 21st century, computer age. Streamline it. Now, worry about the emerging China, where free speech is limited, and the Gov. censors the media and net.

Mary Catherine, Elmhurst, US/IL

Forget for a moment about how much sense the new SAFE cards make. But think about the fact that Americans: 1) are seriously thinking about cataloguing all foreign visitors and potential friends who visit their country, 2) are invited to see a potential enemy in every air passenger, 3) are urged to show extravigilance even when the gvt dilligently demotes the alert level from red to orange, 4) are prepared to give up an increasing number of civil liberties for the sake of "safety" and so on...
In other words, government has failed the citizens because it has already lost the war against terrorists since the moment it was ready to push changes in the American way of life and is turning the society into a seclusive space where ever second must be spent suspecting every simple thing in life.
These guys have a very North Korean notion of national safety!

Astrit, Los Angeles, CA,

As an American, it angers me, but doesn't shock me that this hypocritical fascist is STILL spinning the defensive posture and that morons of all walks out there STILL swallow it. TERRORISM is keeping a population in a state of fear to further your own selfish interests. By this definition, George Bush, Giuliani and others in this league are terrorists themselves. I pray that this country wakes up and fires the pigs in charge.

JL, Orange County, California

There are so many accents in american-english... Terrorism and tourism can easily be confused.

Here's a tip Rudy, pay attention:
Terrorism means what? Baaaad guys.
Tourism means what? Goood guys.

Now, you do some training on your own.

Ronnie, PARIS, FRANCE

The UK already makes it an ordeal to enter the country, endless long line-ups, dreadful conditions at Heathrow.

Susan, Ontario, Canada

I have already decided, unfortunately, that until things fundamentally change in America, I shall never, ever go near the place. I did this in 2002 and since that time, the state of hysteria, fear and loss of freedom has only accelerated.

Damien, Belfast,

No problem provided the same treatment is offered to US citizens visiting Europe.

I also suggest that USA definitely close their borders to any visitor. Why not create web virtual visits ?

Daniel, Villers la ChÃ¨vre, France

When one thinks about it. Why visit the USA at all!!

Filthy, dirty beaches-Miami, L.A. anyone?
Crime ridden cities everywhere.
Water so polluted they import it.
A food supply so bad that it poisons almost 500,000 people a month (do check).
An infrastructure so broken and bankrupt that it kills on average 6-8 people a day.
The list goes on and on.

The greatest nation earth? Hardly, more like the last act of bad 3 ring circus.

Doug W, Vancouver, Canada

Oh, come on. We all know what this is about. Britian has RFID chips in their new passports, and one camera watching every 14 citizens. Fascists in both the Democratic and Republican parties are trying to ram through national ID cards, biomentric IDs, and RFID chips. This is about TOTAL control of ALL people. It won't just be tourists and illegal aliens. They are the pilot targets. Bush has opened our borders and flooded this country with criminal illegals - problem, reaction, solution - give everyone an ID card or chip. They want to track and control us. Certainly those in the UK should know this?! It's 1984, people. Wake the hell up. JUST SAY NO to fascism. As JFK said not long before he was murdered, "Mankind was born to be free and independent". CLAIM THAT.

susan, Grand Rapids, Michigan

Big deal. A minor inconvenience that may save lives. If the UK or EU wants to require US citizens crossing the pond to do the same, I would happily comply.

Robert, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA

Why would a legal visitor need an ID card they have their passport with their visa. How stupid.

No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance.

See http://www.inteliOrg.com/un_american.html. Know whom you are voting for.

Dr Coles, Los Angeles, CA

Its getting to the stage where its gonna be to much hassle and invasion going to america as a tourist. The Eu has already given the US govt the right to "Store" ALL Passenger data for decades. Now with this, it would be a defacto ID Card for US/EU. Im just gonna travel around Europe now i guess. America has lost the plot.

Jimmy, Yes Ai do, EU

Why does the word "terrorism" get thrown around as a justification for EVERYTHING?

Hell-o, the people who perpetrated the September 11 attacks were in the country LEGALLY.

I mean, dealing with crime committed by illegal immigrants and sorting out their status is really a whole separate issue to dealing with international terrorism.

N. H. , Southampton , UK

Yes, that's going to work. Where have all the great minds, that America used to have, gone?

Antony Rigby, Farnham,

It is my understanding from this article that Rudy is proposing a change to the Passport generally required by individuals traveling between countries. It doesn't seem all that difficult in terms of gaining biometric information, particularly if it were in the form of say a smart-card format.

My concern is that there will likely be more checks among people who are of a different race or national origin. While I both my wife and I have family lines dating back to the original pilgrims who landed at Plymouth Rock, Massachusetts in 1620, I am concerned about how others from different countries will react to this new concept if it is implemented.

David, Utah, USA

More delays at Immigration. Visitors have increasigly sophisticated passports. Who will have to produce their ID and when? Just shows the benefits of holidaying anywhere other than the US. I'll never go there again because of its policies. I take no US clients and do not give my business to US companies.

Peter, London,

Why cannot the media understand that by taking such a silly extreme view that he would never institute, even if he could, Guiliani is staking out a position so extreme that rational proposals by his opponents will seem like appeasement?

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

Of course an ID card is the biggest weapon in the fight against terrorism, from now on anyone who wants to try and attack the US now will be stopped by the small piece of plastic, Ingenious!!

Don't even think about banning guns, that wont cut murders at all, no. Keep all the guns, It is after all an Americans right to own a gun if they want to. But make sure you do everything you can to discourage the tourists from getting in. That should do it. I mean, Virginia Tech, Columbine, the UnaBomber and the Oklahoma bombing to name a few they were all carried out by tourists weren't they??

I guess all the terrorists that at the moment enter the US on a sun-seeker package holiday will find themselves cleverly outwitted by the US government and i imagine are not intelligent enough to find another way past immigration control. Sneaky Rudy, he could always run the CIA if he does not get the ticket.

What an amazing country the USA is.

Gary, brisbane,

What about the effect on tourism? I would love to come and see New York, but have already put it off several times, deterred by the increasing processes and hastle. If Guiliani gets the presidency, looks like iÂ´ll never get there!

Dino, Alicante, Spain,

This is unacceptable. America should not allow itself to be hijacked by Rudy Giullani's September 11 mentality. US is and will always be a free nation. It will be the beacon to those who dream about freedom but die in their own pool of blood.

mbawmba, Jamaica, Jamaica

How long before people will have to wear badges, maybe Star of Davids!?

Rory, Tokyo,

By the way, what did Guiliani do after 9/11 ? All I recall is that he had a bunch of people with him to answer questions at a press conference. People probably saw him as an avuncular figure but let's be realistic here. Guiliani's been discredited by even the Firemans Union, representing the one institution that possibly made the biggest sacrifices in the immediate 9/11 aftermath. All his policy statements are alarmist and playing the security card, so effectively used by Karl Rove for Goerge W. Bush.

Good luck to America, if it votes for Guiliani. Its one thing running a city and quite another running a country.

J. Taylor, NY,

Great idea the uk could accept the us card and avoid the need to spend billions on its own version!

bob, carnoustie,

Here is the deal.....Give everyone an ID as they enter the US.....and you may put a halt to terrorism and definitley on tourism.

Giuliani has been riding the high horse since September 11th...Just because he was there and he acted responsibily (which is the least that is expected of him).....But the truth is that he failed as a mayor (compare to Bloomberg who is doing a very good job).....

Americans will not elect a balck for mayor......will not favor a catholic (specially if the candidate is republican) but could vote for a woman...

Al, Princeton , NJ, USA

Giuliani? Ha! Not a chance. He's too liberal for the Repulsiverant's base.

Jack Dyson, Des Moines,

New Labours policy of introducing cards ID cards will be very useful if the USA carries out this policy.Wonder what David Cameron and his ministers will do when they want to visit the USA as they are opposed to ID cards.Wont bother the Lib Dems as they are so anti American they dont want to visit anyway.

Bill Rees, Truro, Cornwall

America has lost over 200.000 jobs in its tourist industry as a direct result of its over the top security measures and causing toursits to stay in their droves now. And now this. Way to go America.

Mel Barrows, Tenerife., Canary Islands

I love Giuliani's equation between people cheating welfare and imposing the same 'we'll get you' principles for tourists and business visitors: who are largely coming to your country to have leisure time or conduct business, in both cases coming to spend money or make money and - with good reason since they're usually not criminals - expecting some kind of friendly welcome. Try going through a New York airport these days if you tick any of the 'dangerous' boxes: brown skin, male, Muslim, funny sounding name, Gulf/sub-continental visa in your passport or a combination. It's enough of a disgusting experience without getting worse. We should make Americans entering the UK face the same processes. I find politicians way more dangerous than law-abiding ordinary citizens.

Sami, Bath, UK

Obviously, this idea is not popular. I believe it is a strategy. I can understand it's use in our country where there are greedy, unsavory kinds who attempt to exploit welfare that our tax dollars pay for by fraudulenty assuming 3 identities to receive 3 times the welfare while there are those in need who are honest surviving on 1 income of welfare.

I haven't read anywhere that we would do this to alienate those who would like to visit the U.S. and while it may not seem necessary in other countries where vigilante justice is acceptable or where there is little crime, our reality since 9/11 has been to do what ever it takes to secure our boarders not just for us, but for those who come from abroad to visit, shop, and do business with us. As for civil liberties, I would see this as no different than having a drivers license and if one has nothing to hide, unlike those attempting to secure 3 incomes of welfare, I see no reason for it to be offensive.

Jacki Cotton, Cincinnati, OH, US

If the Giuliani wanted to be really cautious about not letting "terrorists" into his country, then he should perhaps suggest an additional feature at Customs & Immigration - have a new "Immigration Control" officer put a bullet into the head of every non-citizen entering the passport control area. This would go a long way to ensuring that absolutely no potential foreign terrorist could possibly enter the country and would be far cheaper to implement than the proposed ID system. It might have a somewhat detrimental impact on the tourism industry, however.

Perry Stalsis, Toronto,

It used to happen that if a country made UK citizens jump through the hoops to get in then the UK immigration people replied in kind.
Its about time that people from the US were subjected to the same hassle as we get whee we need to travel to the US. Visas and long waits at the airport, rude immigration staff and now fingerprinting. Can we make it harder for them to get in please?

Richard Butler, Ipswich, Suffolk

The last time I made a connecting flight in the US I had to queue for a long time to go through the full immigration procedure. If each person additionally has to have a photo taken and then to wait for a tamperproof card to be made, I can see things getting to the point that no-one with any sense will make connecting flights in the US.

Besides, what's wrong with those biometric visas which the US now requires for citizens of most countries? Is Giuliani claiming that they're insecure? Or does he think it will be easier to create a new document which the exempt citizens are required to carry than to remove the exemptions?

Peter Taylor, Cambridge,

I am of the opinion that everone should carry ID at all times. In military service it is mandatory, so what's wrong with the rest of the population now that terrorism and serious crime is rife. I am quite in favour of a stop and search policy also. I live in a place where there is no crime and if anyone did commit a crime the population would sort them out before the police could get there.

michael, bidache, france

Say goodbye to all your British and European tourists, and all the money that they spend !

You think you can get away with treating us like criminals because tourists don't have votes.

Actually we do: it's just that we vote with our feet, as you're already starting to find out.

Gerry, London, England

As an American citizen, the "SAFE" card is a joke. In the first place the president does not make the laws. He/she can try to get things he/she wants but if our legislatures don't agree it won't happen. I am a republican but find this "solution" absurd. If illegal aliens will be allowed one of these cards,then will that do away with our green cards ? All of this is just politcal rhetoric and I for one am dreading this campaign. It is going to be a very long 15 months.

Katie Turner, Cincinnati, USA Ohio

Shows the need for a national ID, doesn't it?

jim johnson, framingham, ma.

The guy is just talk, most foreigners coming here have more ID than any American ever had, most come from countries with a need for a government id, they have a passport as well, beside a driverslicence and yes most have credit cards.
A country which can not even handle ID's for its citizens is talking about ID's for tourists, and we are talking tourists only because the resident aliens have ID's. The whole thing is just hogwash, never mind the voters love to hear such talk even if it has no base in reality

Richard, Irvine, USA