I wouldn't be blaming the US about this especially when you look at Our current leaders. you're all forgetting that this person has BROKE A LAW with. Yes, maybe it would be better if the US got permission from the country. but you have to look to your own leaders for an explenation of doing nothing

Tyler, Waukesha WI, USA

Any kidnapping by any forign forces of a British citizen, whatever country be involved, should be seen as an act of agression.

I think its fine we cooperate with US authorities over here, in detaining people wanted over there, providing there is no risk of the death penalty.

g, england, UK

... Ehm MaryM from Brookfield,

You are aware of the declaration of mr. Obama in which he declares to be wiling to BOMB Pakistan? I can't think of a reason ... why should he say this ... what is the kind of change we can expect from him?

Good Luck & Good Night,

Arnoud from The Netherlands

PS: We have, in a small way, the same problem here since we are part of the notorius "Coalition Of The Willing" ... and we had also a party that promissed change ... well guess what?

Arnoud, Den Haag,

America is just a big bully.

Kristian Madsen, Copenhagen, Denmark

The last 7 + years - and all of them - have been on going nightmare for us, in the United States with things only getting progressively worse. I can confidently tell you that the majority of us are overwhelmed with embarassment and shame at the actions of the Bush Administration. From an illegal war, to torture, to federal incompetence, to scandalous and corrupt pardons and deals, we are living in a world which Nazi Germany came realize. Our middle class is disappearing, our jobs have been shipped away and our govenment has turned its back on us. They've allowed our country to be taken over by huge corporate interests which own and manage everything, including the government and the entire world has been effected.

We are working for change, here. We are working from the bottom up, for a leader who will restore our constitution, our reputation to other nations and who will do the right thing by the rest of the world. Yes we will; yes we are; yes we can!

MaryM, Brookfield, Wisconsin, USA

The UK govenment should make it clear that whoever carrys out, orders or sanctions such kidnappings on British soil will be prosecuted and jailed if they ever set foot in the UK.

R Stretton, Chester,

I have to say that the US has been quite coherent in its approach. Check ou "the Hague invasion act". A little extract: "the new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court (International Criminal Court), which is located in The Hague."

Scary, very scary

Manu, Lisbon, Portugal

I hope our brothers and sisters in the UK don't forget that millions of us Yankees happen to agree with them and would be quite thrilled if the KGB, MI6 or any other foreign intelligence service would come and kidnap both Bush & Cheney and prosecute them for crimes against humanity. BTW - They 're both fans of water boarding and don't consider it torture so we invite you to try that on them.

Please hurry though - we're dieing over here!

chris s, encinitas, ca

Come on people... chill out and think about this for a moment. How does what some American lawyer says = "AMERICA has told Britain." At best, I think this was only meant to put a scare in some people over here wanted by the U.S. A lot of times America is all bark and no bite. This means nothing...

Bobby M, London, UK

I agree with A.P. Veening. If a person breaks British laws against kidnapping they should be extradited and brought to trial. Whether kidnapping's legal in the USA is not the point. When you're in a nation you obey that nations laws.

Melchior, Brooklyn, NY

The solution to this is very easy: Enact reciprocal legislation and execute it. After all, kidnapping is illegal in the UK, so US officials kidnapping British citizens should be brought to trial.

A.P. Veening, Rotterdam, The Netherlands

Interesting that so many want to get rid of Bush. Bill Clinton, in 1995 issued a directive to the CIA to use extraordinary rendition. Wait until Hillary starts eliminating her enemies.

Chrys, Greensburg,

I may be confused about the dates, but was George W. Bush in office in 1992 when the Supreme Court rendered it's decision? This "Bush Tourette Syndrome" would be funny if it weren't so sad. Whatever we might think of the decisions of the courts, not everything bad that happens is George Bush's fault. Get a life.

Marwan Nusair, Cincinnati, Ohio

Too bad Tollman got away. Better luck next time.

Leland, Tallahassee, FL

It is a sad state of affairs here in the United States when out official policy is that we can kidnap people abroad and bring them to the U.S. to face trial. It is unfathomable that our Supreme Court actually gave its stamp of approval to this behavior in the 1990's, actually holding that just because we have extradition treaties with other countries, it does not mean that is the only means by which we may acquire suspects in criminal cases. I had hoped that even with that ridiculous opinion, the U.S. would not attempt such an act again, but now that it is the administration's policy, who knows?

I cannot wait until this "president" is impeached and his VP along with him.

Garrett, Seattle, United States

this is a ridiculous argument and is just another example of the harm George Bush has done to America's reputation around the world/ American law only applies to American citizens. It does not apply to every single person in the world.

eddie, Miami, United States

There must still be some IRA people in the USA wanted in the UK. I wonder what the reaction of the US would be if the UK snatched them back to the UK for questioning or trial.

S Downie, london, england

If the US can send its agents around the world to “kidnap” citizens of any nationality if they are wanted for crimes in the United States, then it is high time to introduce strict visa requirements for Americans wishing to enter our countries. We live in a civilized world. Kidnapping is a crime. If no extradition agreements exist America can enter into them on a bilateral basis. And just for the record: why must we, Europeans, have our fingerprints taken and undergo iris scans, if those measures are not vice-versa?

Don Pablo, Brussels, Belgium

The problem as I see it, is that if someone commits a crime and then retreats to another country, then yes of course they should extradited and prosecuted. But that process must be done through legal channels of both countries. For the current American administration this will not happen. From reading these comments it seems that people are not defending a criminal's attempt to evade justice, but are more concerned with US taking the unilateral stance on kidnapping other country's citizens. This is administration is the most arrogant that the US has ever had. It will take a generation for the world to start to view the United States as a proper country and not a pariah bent on its own prosperity, at whatever the cost.

DJM, London,

As an expat living in the US all I can say is that this country has ceased to be called civilised, by the way the protests from the UK government are deafening aren't they.....

Ian Hendry, Boston, MA

"SHOOTOUT IN LONDON STREET"

Just imagine the headlines the first time an attempt is made to scoop someone up who has been afforded armed protection by the Home Office.

Dennis, The American Colonies,

In that case, let's kidnap George Bush. He's a criminal isn't he?

shahnaz, Basra, Iraq

If the US' view is allowed to stand, then I hope the International Criminal Court or some other public-spirited country employ the precedent to justify kidnapping Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and other neoconservative hawks so they may be tried for war crimes.

P. Wong, USA, USA

well it`s coming again boy`s and girls

The best way to take control over a people and control them
utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode
rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights
and freedoms being removed until past the point at which
these changes cannot be reversed - Adolf Hitler

martin, manchester,

I am ashamed our the US Government Congress, Courts, Judges, and how our constitution is ignored and basically the above folks have been hijacked by the International Corporations of US, Europe and other Countries.

I agree with the gentleman from Wales above. Surely the US Government won't mind if UK turns the tables on them and kidnaps US citizens who have committed similar or identical crimes against UK?

Good to get the Real News here on your Site. Listened to you on Coast to Coast last night too.
Keep up the good work.

c esterly, USA, USA

If that is the case, then surely the US won't mind other countries abducting their crooked officials and other criminals from the States? And I'm sure they would have no problem sending the people who carried out the kidnapping back to the country in which it took place in order to face charges of kidnapping?

R. Willatts, Cardiff, Wales

The United States Supreme Court has had an uneven record on international kidnapping. In Ker v Illinois, 119 U.S. 436 (1886) international kidnapping of criminal suspects was upheld. Factor v Laubenheimer, 290 U.S. 276 (1933) stated "The principles of international law recognize no right to extradition apart from treaty." In Alvarez-Machain v U.S.,
504 U.S. 655 (1992) kidnapping by federal officers was again upheld. However, other states do the same: the two most egregious examples are the Adolph Eichmann and Mordechai Vanunu kidnappings by Israel. Actions speak louder than words.

Michael J Brady, PhD International Law, Tucson,

RE: "Well..at least theres a legitimate reason for a kidnapping should it ever occur. Unlike when the British impressed/kidnapped thousands of Americans to man their ships of sail. "

Not being funny, but how long ago was that? At least we change to keep with the times. Your "bounty hunting" ways are still in effect from 1860.

America needs to grow up and stop spitting its dummy out all the damn time.

Kate, Kent, UK

regarding:
<quote>What's next? Will fugitive US tax evader Marc Rich be kidnapped in Switzerland to face the music in a US court? </quote>

Good luck. All males above 18 in Switzerland have a military issue assault rifle in their home (as required by Swiss law).
Should you attempt send your death squads / rendition teams to Switzerland - I'm guessing that the Swiss would use these assault rifles to ensure that these teams are no more.
The US government is behaving more and more like the dictator of the country where I grew up and lived prior to moving to Switzerland. And to think that I used to think that the US was the bastion of freedom.. how times change.

z, Zürich, Switzerland

The only thing that shocks me about these comments is the Traitors in our midsts. Americans actually saying that duly elected officials should be sent to foreign countries to be tried?
The rest of them are the usual poisonous comments from men and women who hate because that is all that is left for them to do.
As for the Kidnapping of a foreigner who break laws in the US to be tried in a US court, what does anyone expect? If countries deported criminals without the usual left bellyaching this would be a non-starter. The US has always extradited its criminal class to foreign governments that had just cause. That has not been reciprocal. Foreign governments have often denied the US criminals, even if US citizens. Furthermore, when a deportation took place, often they were sent with caveats on what punishments these criminals could be given.

M, Milwaukee, USA/WI

Well..at least theres a legitimate reason for a kidnapping should it ever occur. Unlike when the British impressed/kidnapped thousands of Americans to man their ships of sail.

Whoops!!..maybe I shouldn't have said that here as all Europeans seem to be suffering from German amnesia these days.

Murph, Madisonville, USA/KY

Could you guys please kidnap me? I'm tired of living in a police state. :[

Dietrich, baylor, FL / USA

I would not worry too much if they come looking for you. Look how long they have been searching for Bin Laden LOL

Stephen Croft, Ranong, Ex UK, Yorkshire

First, Bounty hunting is the act of a private citizen going to Britain with the knowledge and intent of breaking your laws to get a person wanted in the United States. It is also usually a private and contractual matter as well, since most, if not all, Bounty Hunts would arrange from someone jumping bail and the bondsmen who posted the bail sending out the Hunters.
Its legal in the United States cause the Courts don't care how a bail-jumper gets to court, just that they are present.
You signed the contract, you broke the rules, you deal with the consequences.
Use of it by the United States government using it's own agents would be problematic, particularly if the party were merely a fugitive and not a bail hopper.
We have better things to do then annoy our friends the Brits, but if the jumper disappears one night in Britain, who among you is really going to care that one American you thought was a tourists, just disappears? Who will even notice?

Stephen T, Staten Island / New York, USA / NY

It is funny how people talk about bounty hunting and assume that it applies to the government doing the same thing. If a person jumps bail and then goes to another country they think are immune from deportation. However, as most people who get bail use a bail bondsman to put up a bond and pay a percentage of the actual bail. They also sign a legal contract understanding that a bailbondsman will track them down if they do not show up for their hearing.
If a bailbondsman goes into another country and brings the person back then the person has no legal recourse to claim they should be released on those grounds. However, a bondsman also risks being charged with kidnapping by the other country. There was a famous case where this happened between Canada and the US. A man jumped bail and fled to canada as the charge was not a deportable one. The bounty hunters brought him back, but then Canada charged the bounty hunters with kidnapping which was deportable for.

Ronald, College Station, TX

I find it morally repugnant that my nation should act when there are laws ALREADY in place for criminals to be extradicted to this country. Maybe they should act on changing the law and not side-stepping it. All this does is undermine the trust shared between nations who have already agreed. If the case can be proved they will be extradicted if not..... Who ever said lifes' always fair hasn't really lived it.

Hadley Scott, Lebanon, USA / Penna.

Axis of Evil .. Shock and Awe .. Extraordinary Rendition .. Illegal Occupation.. If you're Not with us you are against US... And now Government sanctioned international Kidnapping! Wow .. sit tight - This is the New World Order.

leon, Melbourne, Australia

I must apologise to Bruce Steele and his fellow Americans. Apparently they are given information about the real world and can make reasoned decisions. CNN has just reported that US intelligence agencies undercut the White House yesterday by disclosing for the first time that Iran has not been pursuing a nuclear weapons development programme for the past four years. The secret report, which was declassified yesterday and published, marked a significant shift from previous estimates. "Tehran's decision to halt its nuclear weapons programme suggests it is less determined to develop nuclear weapons than we have been judging since 2005," it said.

Hoo boy; wanna bet George W Bush will now pull his head in? Be interesting to see how the World's Policeman responds to learning it has been getting it wrong again. Superpower?? Yeah, right.

Allan Watson, Redland City, Australia

After reading this article, it once again makes me ashamed to have anything to do with my home country. Perhaps we should just call it the United States of George? It makes me want to apologize to the world at large. Luckily it is now impossible to have four more years of the current regime, but the damages have been done.

Michael, Sunnyvale,

Britian,

Please, please, please kidnap any/all American criminals and take them all back to the UK.

Such a non-issue but it sure pushes the button for all the ant-Americans. You guys are just too easy.

Hotspur, Atlnta, USA

"At least when Amer. goes after someone there has been charges brought in a real court and upon return to the states that person will receive legal counsel,have a trial in open court and receive all of our Constitutional protections. We are attempting to bring criminals to justice.
Bruce Steele, Tully, USA/NY"

Really?
You live in dream world.
You hit the nail on the head though when you said "We are attempting to bring criminals to justice"

Criminals? Pre trial? You call that justice?

fred, nookastle,

Its clear from reading 90% of the American comments here that you guys take this discussion very personally. In my opinion, your policy makers alienate the rest of the world (yes, there is one guys), while destroying belief in our own police and security forces. I am unsure if we (Great Britatin) are able to execute such inconsiderate facist actions on American soil. Even if we could, would we risk any more pressure on "the special relationship?"

Rupert, Torquay, England

This article makes it seem as if a US lawyer has threatened Britain with this type of kidnapping. Are we sure it should be put in this context, or was it merely that a British lawyer or judge asked an American lawyer for a legal opinion? It would not surprise me if the US Congress has not passed a law that explicitly states that the US cannot kidnap someone on foreign territory and bring them back to the US for trial.

Are you "this is why everyone hates America" folks sure that Britain has a law stating that your government cannot kidnap wanted persons here in the US or in other countries?

Josh, Arizona, USA

<<Quote>>It is a problem if is more like a global Gestapo run to serve the interest and whims of the powerful and isolated few. I don't know which way it is heading.<<quote>>

America is headed toward a global Gestapo. This behavior is not normal! I wish more Brits and Europeans would wake up to what is really happening in the US. I'm an American saying this. I moved to the UK to get away from the American brownshirts, little did I know....

It isn't clear to me that the US Supreme Court ruled that this type of rendition is legal. It was ruled legal in the Mexican case because the US had an extradition case with Mexico. The Neo-Con lawyers have a tendency to re-intepret the law as they see fit.

Erin, London,

I do hope Bruce Steele, Tully, USA/NY is kidding. President George W Bush has shown utter contempt for the US Constitution, its Congress, the Founding Fathers, and the American people in general, so how does he really know how any kidnap victim will be treated there? Problem is, the good old US of A does not have an educated public which knows the truth of what is going on in its own back yard. Try finding out how many of the poor schmuks in Guantanamo Bay are guilty of anything

Allan Watson, Redland City, Australia

Why should every other nation on the planet give two-hoots as to what congress and Bush rules is sanctioned! If those 'Bounty Hunter' laws are used to kidnap foreigners, the kidnappers have broken the laws of whichever country that was and therefore are accountable to that country.

This is further proof of the evil fascism encouraged by the Patriot Acts and just what is required for the biblical 'End Days' scenario of the 'War on the Saints' or anyone refusing their 'Mark of the Beast', when it kicks in.

Stuart Harrison, Dorset, England

Its called extradition and rendition, not kidnapping.

Maybe the UK shouldn't have signed that extradition treaty with the US then if people wanted the UK to serve as a safe haven for people to break US law?

Wait....I've changed my mind...this article is right. We should make it harder to arrest suspected criminals, not easier. /sarcasm.

Corky St. Clair, Baltimore, Maryland

Perhaps the UK shouldn't have signed an extradition treaty with the US in 2003 if they wanted to harbor criminals?

Corky St. Clair, Boise, Idaho

Sounds like Bobby Fischer needs to move to a safe house. Iceland (that's the country, not the supermarket) is no longer beyond the reach of US snatch squads. "The Great Satan", now who was it that said that? Oh right, that dead guy.

Andrew Milner, Yokohama, Japan Alps

The quote concerns America's having passed from barbarism to decadence, and it's from old G.B. Shaw. And it has proved an observation of great prescience.

JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO, Canada

I think that my country should kidnap a few American politicians just for being the idiots that even americans are ashamed of.

Joe Henderson, Gosport, United Kingdom

I can understand how Britan (a highly respected country in the US) would be upset over forced extradition. Can you understand how the US would be upset when British criminals aren't sent for trial? Bounty hunting is one of those activites that lives on the fringes of legality and acceptability. There is no way to make it pretty.

Before a person berates the US government for some of its "hidden" activites, please step back for a moment, find a realistic perspective, and ask yourself if none of that ever happens within your own government. That doesn't mean I'm endorsing it, just pointing out that soapbox you're standing on might be made of cardboard. Some of you live in countries that I know first-hand are riddled with corruption. Corruption only exists when the government allows it (and usually is at the center of it).

Carmen from Nashville: Info to surrender your citizenship is at www.uscis.gov or 1-800-375-5283 . You talk the talk; you gonna walk the walk?

Dennis, Waterloo, USA / Iowa

There is a solution. Extradition is a more valuable resource than rendition. Make it a requirement that no nation that engages in, or whose laws admit rendition shall be entitled to power of extradition.

As to recent U.S. cases, as a lawyer with over 55 years at the Bar, I am still toubled by what we did with the "President" of Panama.

The NatWest 3 case is, the gravemen being acts soley in the UK is equally unsustainable.

R. Richard Schweitzer, Atlanta, USA

So much for the special relationship. But then again what else can cousins expect?
Our neighbors north of the border do get better treatment. During the Viet Nam war U.S. police chased a draft dodger who was protesting the war on our side of the border into Canada and dragged him back to the good old USA. Canada demanded and got his immediate release.
Frederick Vaquer, Pasadena Ca.

Frederick Vaquer, pasadena, , ca, usa

I'm somehow not surprised. This seems to be a growing trend here in the states. By that i mean- ignorant, hypocritical, totalitarian WASP ethics dominating whatever ethical or political tenets we used to hold dear.

H. Johnson, Cleveland, OH

Must say, bringing up some naval press-ganging from nearly two centuries ago is a little unfair (it was pretty common practice back then, not nice but practical)

However, it does bring to mind an example of Britain acting as 'world police' and applying our laws to others. After we outlawed slavery, it became a practice of the British Navy to intercept American slaver ships and to generally harass the slave trade as much as possible. Should we have said "well, its not as if we are blameless in the past - so lets not interfere with the slave trade, its not in our country" or was it right we realised slavery was wrong and stepped in to prevent more misery?

America being the new 'world police' is not a problem if it stops wrongdoers and saves innocents - if it is a stern but friendly 'bobby on the beat' or a 30s 'untouchable'. It is a problem if is more like a global Gestapo run to serve the interest and whims of the powerful and isolated few. I don't know which way it is heading.

Bradley, Blackpool,

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is done. America reserves the right to attack and invade Great Britain, but we're not going to do it. What the article says about the Tollman case doesn't make sense. They say he was rendered, but then they say the US "persuaded Canadian officials to detain him". That's not rendition. It's telling that the only case the US cited was from 17 years ago and involved Mexico -- not Britain.

I hereby assure the people of Great Britain that the American people and government have no desire to start kidnapping British citizens. This article is probably going to unnecessarily outrage Britons about America, which is probably the Times' intent, in the first place.

Steve, New York, NY

In a perfect world this would work but as we no a lot of innocent people are accused or convicted of crimes they did not commit. We cannot have countries allowing this to happen. There always seems to be one rule for America and another rule for the rest of the world.

There is no way that America would let one of there citizens be abducted in this way.

Mark Dallimore, Peterborough, UK

What's next? Will fugitive US tax evader Marc Rich be kidnapped in Switzerland to face the music in a US court?

No, I forgot, Bill Clinton pardoned Rich.

Red, St. Petersburg, Florida

Does anyone recollect a fine speech by President Bush (senior), circa 1989/1990, when the Soviet Bloc was falling apart, the two Germanies were re-uniting, and Saddam had not yet invaded Kuwait???. The President said some very touching words, about the dawn of a new era, and humanity progressing into "A kinder, gentler, world...". Did something go wrong along the way?.

Piggy Kruger, Bridgwater, UK

Let's see, we once were a Brit colony and learned from the best that if you want someone just take them. During the war of 1812 Amer. sailors were impressed by the Crown(DNA challenged individuals) to serve in the Brit. navy. At least when Amer. goes after someone there has been charges brought in a real court and upon return to the states that person will receive legal counsel,have a trial in open court and receive all of our Constitutional protections. We are attempting to bring criminals to justice. Many countries around the world protect these alleged criminals since they are either connected or are paying off local officials for protection. One quick question; if the U.S. is such a pirate nation and is so disliked around the world, then why are most people trying to get in rather than get out? Maybe the America haters just hate a winner!

Bruce Steele, Tully, USA/NY

In western Europe it is understood that sovereign state is the only that can in that territory in legitimate manner exercise actions of violence, for punishing people, this since medieval political philosophy seen very central for the idea of sovereignty. How can it then be that Americans suppose they might exercise acts of physical violence, obviously necessary for the act of "kidnapping", in somehow legitimate manner? Maybe there is some notoriously vague language in this article, some central terminology undefined, or references to some sayings that are highly disputed in American discussion and thus not really representative for their thought or practise? Even in the current EU judiciary practise the process of extradition is very complicated process, and especially, that must go through the legal process of that country.

Larry Greenfield, Manchester,

LOOK........... We are the SUPERPOWER in the world. So, long as we are the SUPERPOWER, we will do as we please. End of story. We do not care about the opinion of others and nor should we. This is the benefit of being the supreme economic and military superpower in the world.

What don't you people in Europe understand??? We are the Superpower. And here is another bit of news for you........ We will be the only superpower in the world for generations to come, even in the lifetime of your great-grandchildren. So, please teach them young not to mess with the U.S. of A.

All American, New York, USA

Wrong, your thirst for oil will eventually break you of this notion. You're already a lacky of several middle eastern countries you fool. In regard to sugesting you can do what ever you want, I would say that so can we, and once we have Bush on the war crimes list at the Hague, maybe we'll be coming for him, you lot aren't very good at the whole border control thing anyway!

Chris, Stamford,

THis is simply part of the slow incremental chipping away of the last vestiges of liberty. It's invisible when you are on your knees but combine that with the increase use of tasers, the cctv cameras, the false war on terror - more correctly named the war on behalf of terror and you see a picture of enslavement and servitude that is only missing the slave master on the painted porch .

David, Vancouver, Canada

OK, the US can do what they like and the victim will have no rights in a US court. However, as kidnap is illegal in the UK, what should happen to those who undertake the kidnap? Surely they should be arrested and locked up if they ever set foot in the UK, or Europe again. Europe has its laws and the US must live with that.

If the Iranians kidnapped a US citizen from the US to face trial in Iran on crimes against Islam, presumably the US would go along with that?

Ian, Vancouver, Canada

A few thoughts, not that I'm a defender of the current administration but the court ruling precedes them, so don't blame them for this one. There's more then enough to blame them for, but do stop the knee-jerk "it's Bush" response. Don't take it though, that I think this is a good idea. I thought this was the purpose of extradition treaties, you make em..you live with em. that doesn't mean you always get the results you want.

To Bill from Oz, just a thought ..the reason we don't "win" wars with third world countries is quite simple. Unlike the last WW we no longer wage war against a "country", by devestating it's infrastructure, and killing off massive numbers of the population. According to Iraq Body Count, their estimate is around 85,000..less then the estimated 100,000 killed in Tokoyo in March 45. I'm not advocating such an approach but history tends to demonstrate that "total war" is effective. Perhaps if only waged war when willing to do so, we'd do it less often.

Jon, LA, CA, US

Why is everyone so shocked - America has been doing this for years! They pick up people from all over the world and pack them off to guantanamo bay. And yet they think theyre the most civilised country in the world. Well..... what goes up must come down. Britain was the worlds superpower at one stage, and fell and now it is a matter of time before America falls too - its just nature.

nikki, london, uk

Sorry, folks, but America has long ceased to be "a civilized nation". It is a near-theocratic corporate-owned and operated fascism. Very shortly you will also begin to see American citizens occupying internment camps for disagreement with the government, the old and disabled - and those screwed by the corporations - starving and freezing, and so on. It has become a place where only power and connections count, and "justice" is only for those who can afford to buy it..

Ian

Ian MacLeod, Madras, Oregon

Cuba had an interesting way of dealing with America's sideline of kidnapping criminals.They sent thousands of their convicts to American shores in the Mariel boat lift incident.Perhaps if other nations could see their way to empty their prisons by sending them all to America,it could be justified as "business as usual."It was an ingenious idea he perpetrated on the USA and now it seems all to fitting an idea for others to follow.

kleo, Miami, Florida,USA

The Archbishop was right, this is manifest imperialism in a hostile form. I recently flew to New Zealand via LA, and even though we were just in transit the yanks finger printed and photographed a whole Jumbo-full of us, and then checked us on the way back. It is not a warm welcome when you visit the "Land of the Free".

America seems oblivious to how this sort of behaviour does little to endear democracy to the rest of the world, particularly the dictatorships they are so keen to prosecute. Even Putin seems less unreasonable in this sort of light.

Anwar, Bromsgrove,

The simple solution to this next time it happens is to round up a 100 U.S tourists and keep them till they give the individual back.

There are many reasons not to like yanks now we just have one more, and they sit at home and wonder why nobody likes them, are they blind?

MR W B Jones, Liverpool,

Lets try scooping up a couple of Chinese from China and see how they deal with us.

Barbara, Seattle, USA

I wish someone would kidnap the teddy bear teacher safely out of Sudan.

Stanton, Oregon, US

I think you should fly some Nimrods over the U.S. Supreme court and leak fuel on them. And If anyone comes to Sun Prairie to kidnap me could I at least have fish and chips across from Downing st. and get a tour of Westminster Abbey (coolest place in the western world) and get hurled into the Tower?

Mike Leahan
Sun Prairie, WI USA

Mike Leahan, Sun Prairei, Wisconsin USA

Bounty hunters in America can and do enter your house without a warrant to bring you to justice.The police are not even allowed to do that.I once heard a copper giving a bounty hunter the where abouts of a wanted criminal over a scanner,exclaiming "exclaiming never anyone I told you this".I suspose it was against the law because of that.

Fletch, Fort Lauderdale, Florida

It is the good old US of A 's golden rule of democracy in action, once again - do what we say, not what we do.
Enjoy it while it lasts, comrades, because your days are surely numbered.

P Stewart, Kent, UK

Thank goodness our liberal society has grown out of such barbaric practices. When will the rest of the world catch up with us.
This is why Britain is great.

Ro, Cheltenham,

Sir,
Surely in the Post 11/9 world, winning the GWOT depends upon upholding the values of our civilisation?
The US appears to want to be behave like a mafia state, paraphrasing Samuel Huntingdon's words.
Hopefully with a wizened head, we can point them in the right direction. It is really embarrassing to see such a pea-brained lumbering giant with a lynch mob system of justice, remember legal jurisdiction? The abused becoming the abuser. The world does not need such puerile narcissism and jingoism-fuelled hubris. The law of the jungle is only as useful. as one is powerful.

SC, London, United Kingdom

Time we ceased this special relationship as it is proving too damned one sided and expensive for the U.K.

Ken, Chorley, UK

Why is it that the United States go after people in other countries??? why dont they detain their own citizens who have got US citizenships through forged papers and fradulant ways.
Do the US authorities never check the past and confirm the documentations that its fake or ligit?????
The Unites States only terrorise innocent citizens of other countries but they fail in all of their doemstic policies and teachings.

Steve Kan, Central, Hong Kong

stuart, the us gov't is no "paper tiger". It's got control of the largest military machine in all of history. The US spends more on it's military than China, Russia, and the next 17 members of NATO combined. Add the entire world's military expenditure up and over 50% of that expenditure is US. Couple this with the fact that the US is DEEPLY in debt and essentially bankrupt and you can see why our "family business" is now the MILITARY. Though we owe EVERYONE practically now, we have recently gained control/ownership of the world's oil supply. That's a powerful bargaining chip and a lot of collateral... Paper tiger, no, desperate, yes.

Patrick, Mesa, AZ

Atten: David Leppard. Re: Your column of 12-2-07.
I am certain that all of this will be settled in a U.S. court of law, in an honest and just manner, sooner or later. Our courts are usually very painstaking and just in their examination of the circumstances of any particular case. If there is prior case law, it will be examined, in detail, and probably will not survive the scrutiny. It might even end in the U.S. Supreme court,
if there is some one who has "standing", to appeal the case. Sincerely yours, Kenneth B. Smith, P.E.
former Naval Person, WWII.

Kenneth B. Smith, P.E., Wilmington, U.S.A./ Delaware

Another American writing to say that for the last 6+ years I have been ashamed of my government and terrified for my country. Paranoia, fear and illogic run rampant; reason is denounced as "unpatriotic." The structures of the government have been attacked from inside by the insidious cancers of corruption, ideology and incompetence; then the government turns on its people and we are all "suspects" to be monitored. Someone once said that if fascism ever comes to America it will carrying the cross and wrapped in the flag. He was right I do not recognize the America I have lived in all my life. The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave is nether. Sadly, I've even hesitated to use my real name on this e-mail; it's that bad, something which was unthinkable and beyond my imagination in 2000. We'll see what happens....

Shari Lieber Silverman, South San Francisco, California, U.S.A.

there are better things to worry about. How paranoid everyone around here is. Fascist dictatorship? what hogwash

scott mccall, valencia, Spain

I totally agree with Having My Say from Paris! Arrest Bush, Cheney, and ALL their Zionist cronies once this failed presidency is ended, and hand every one of them over to the ICC at the Hague for trial. In addition, hand over the Zionist leadership in Israel to boot! Try all of them for war crimes and crimes against humanity! Guilty all! Lock them forever in a supermax prison and fit them all with assorted iron masks! This should be a warning to all dictator wannabes who want world domination!

eileen kuch, hyattsville, USA, MD

As an American, I am utterly ashamed that this administration has sunk to this level. American was once the inspiration to the world and a champion of human rights, Now the US government is kidnaping people! These so-called “pro-American” neo-cons and their ilk have undermined America’s standing in the world.

George Arndt, Norwalk, Ohio, USA

With out army in tatters and tied up in the Middle East, why don't you Canucks do us all a favor, invade the U.S. and restore some civility.

Never to old to learn God Save the Queen

Dave, tampa,

and why did we go to war in 1812? i believe it was because british were 'kidnapping' or impressing u.s. sailors. what is the difference here? let me know i thought i knew my history.

paul quinlan, oakland ,,

This comes as no surprise. America is a banana republic ruled by people who apply one standard to the US and another to the rest of the world.

Hendrik de Weerd, Utrecht, Netherlands

It is abundantly clear (by the comments from Americans) that the majority of us are sickened (at best) by the current administration -err- regime. They should have been impeached, and they most certainly should be tried as war criminals. Oh if only Pelosi had a spine.

As for the posters Marcella Smith, Ohio, USA and k, Houston, USA I'm happy to report they're in strict minority.

check this out:
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/naturally_the_common_people_don-t_want_war/339098.html
... sound familiar? I know it was Göring at Nuremburg, but boy howdy doesn't it just reek of a Bushism?

Amberlynne LaStrega, Minneapolis, MN / USA

Who wants a free trip to sunny Cuba?

Free room and board!

Free orange jumpsuit!

24 hour security!

Free drugs!

Waterboard... er Watersports!

Courtesy of the US taxpayer!

Wow!

Francis Freeman, Culver City, CA

Israel is exempt from this 'law'.

G. Lauren, Sacramento,

well, let's just hope someone can kidnap gwb the next time he leaves the country and send him to the hague for war crimes.

and as far as the person who says "we won't kidnap brits," guess again. we've imprisoned brits in gitmo without trial. and there is currently a canadian citizen being held there who will now be tried in a secret court with secret witnesses. (google it if you don't believe me, the story is one day old)

as a military brat i grew up in a divided berlin. i was taught that these were the tactics of totalitarian states like the soviets. now i live in a country that does the same...

i'm sorry world. i'm fighting every day against this maniac. let's hope we all survive long enough to see him out of office and getting his due punishment

cassandra complex, los angeles, ca

I really hope you were being humorous jj from Memphis, otherwise you have done your fine country a disservice.

In case you were serious, a little info: Britain does not have Congressmen to complain to because we do not have a Congress and why on earth should we read up on US law!! It is not global or international law, just the law of one nation.

Its a sweet thought that a change of party in the states will bring a change but lets face it, laws will remain and neither side is that different from the other. Representative democracy, republics and so on are just like any other oligarchy - just one where you can swap the face on every few years. Still, beats a single party state I guess - just not by as much as people think.

Whether the US has right, hmm. In the case of a war criminal (like Eichmann) hiding in a country which has little likelihood of serving justice to them, then fair enuf - bag 'em. Right to grab them from a loyal friend over some money? That's just rude

Bradley, Blackpool, England

This is an incredible abuse of power by the US. Of course it's their right to make laws that are effective on their own soil, but to define law to be inacted in a foreign sovereign state is surely illegal. It's simply a matter of jurisdiction.

Would US citizens accept a ruling from British courts to be effected on US soil? I suspect not; the ruling would be laughed-off and not given credible recognition. The whole idea is abhorrent.

Nick, Chelmsford, Essex

well I have one thing to say to jj, Memphis, TN. Just because a law is old (and 100 years is not old for laws, especially in Europe) does not make it good. It used to be ilegal for jews to hold jobs, it is still law in the UK that you have to practice archery every Sunday and it is still legal to shoot welshman with a bow if you stand in shropshire. Don't be foolish and think that the US will in anyway be able to kidnap people from europe, as there would be hell to pay from countries already irritated by your ridiculous arrogance.

Bob, Singsing, singapore

If "kidnapping" of US citizens for "rendition" and otherwise is acceptable, why can't the US "kidnap" citizens of other countries? If US citizens are not that special, foreign citizens certainly aren't.

Sandrine D'Anton, Washington, DC USA

This is a huge attack on the sovereignty of foreign nations. Any nation that accepts this may as well go ahead and declare itself a non-voting province of the US now - it's halfway there anyway. This is the behavior not just of a rogue nation, but of an unbelievably arrogant one. It defies belief. The US is largely a paper tiger in any case. What, they're going to start another war? They can't afford to fight the two they've already got. No, this is not even realpolitik, it is pure incompetence.

Stuart Smith, Vancouver, Canada

They should hang their heads in shame

Older Not Wiser, London,

Re: US says it has right to kidnap British citizens

Will someone PLEASE tell me why the media, world-wide, use American and United States as one?
Last time I looked, there was NORTH America, SOUTH America, both Continents, then CENTRAL America, a region.
UNITED STATES is a country.
Rupert - Texas, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

Rupert, Lake Jackson, United States of America

Might is right. Only the weak disagree.

Stephen, Bath,

Does that mean we can use the same principle to abduct Bush and try him for crimes against humanity? Or any other American?

This is basically "might is right" written into the law.

phil w, york, uk

This is the workings of the new Dictatorship of America. Democracy is all but dead in this country under the Despot bush. The rest of the world is just now openly finding out what we in America have known since 2000, bush is a Dictator and has created a Police State. He now does what all Police States do, he ignores other nations to the benifit of his own.

Bob, San Antonio, TX. USA

If the shoe was on the other foot, America would be screaming bloody murder!!

June K, Wurzburg, Germany

The US is peculiar in being wealthy while failing to sufficiently educate its population, in permitting the countrywide proliferation of firearms despits it's unparalleled rates of firearms deaths and imprisonment, and its near complete abdication of its social duty to rescue the most disadvantaged American children from lives of poverty and misery. It is hardly surprising that they are also wild west kidnappers of whomever they deem a worthy target. Pathetic!

Emma H., Ottawa,

The whole US state was founded on an illegal rebellion by colonists. (Why is Washington, a British subject who committed treason, so highly regarded?) Clearly, they have still not managed to sort out what is acceptable conduct towards their neighbours.

Clothilde Simon, Leeds, UK

Ref: "All American, New York, USA".

Ever heard of China???

Empires come and go Dude and the American 'Empire' will be no exception.

Enjoy it while it lasts - it may not last much longer!

G. Kearns, Kuwait, Kuwait

so kidnap is permissable by US law? big whoop, it's not legal here which i would say is just that bit more important...

sam, farnham, uk

JohnP wrote : laws designed for for terrorists will extend to every day life, that is the nature of the beast.

In fact 'the nature of the beast' is to manufacture 'terrorists' to facilitate 'extensions of law into' decent ordinary citizens' "everyday life"

Jack, London UK,

America is the greatest promotional machine terrorists have ever had. They consistently succeed in not only inciting hatred from many Muslims but also from their allies.

Does America still wonder why the world hates it?

Doug, Birmingham, UK

When a law is immoral and repugnant, is enforced through bullying and terror, there can be no requirement for any nation to respect that law. In fact not only must it not be respected but it must be opposed.

Wizard, Swindon,

It appears the U.K. is just now learning what people here in America have known since bush siezed the presidency, He WILL do what he wants and twist the laws to back him up regardless of the true intent of said laws. As we Americans are beginning to find out to our peril, any law created by bush applies to EVERYONE regardless of nationality just as many other Police States have done in the past. This has nothing to do with Democracy it is the actions of a Dictatorship.

Reddragon696, San Antonio, TX. USA

Have you forgotten your own terrorist/disaster teams in the tunnels minutes before explosions occurred? Your next. Act decisively now and perhaps you can save U.K. from the corporate oligarchy. Your friends in the U.S. have already lost the battle.

Tim Krause, Lisle, USA

All countries kidnap. This is because all governments consider citizens to be cattle.

In this case it's the "chickens coming home to roost" since the British kidnapped American citizens way back when, leading to the war of 1812.

We Americans have a particularly lawless government these days. That is what happens when you have an empire. We are trying very hard to end that. If you want to help, contribute to efforts to elect Ron Paul president. Non-Americans can contribute to grassroots campaigns like
http://ronpaulgraphs.com/chipin.html

Paul X, Wyoming, USA

As a US citizen, please accept my apologies for the actions of our government.

It is clear that the issue is not justice, but ineptitude. If the justice department wants to prosecute a case with real evidence, then there are formal agreements in place for extradition. I would venture to say that kidnapping is a shortcut used when they have no real case.

Just goes to show how far the facist-neocon elements have penetrated our government.

John Scott, Elkins, West Virginia

I am deeply sorry for the insane administration that controls this country now at days. For the record their are those of us in the country who do not believe this Administration is right and we are trying to correct the damage being done. Unfortunately we must now worry about a New law being passed that could view people involved in Code Pink and other organizations oppose to Bush Administration as Homegrown Terrorist organizations.

Jen, New Castle, Pa, U.S.

This notion of no one being safe in the world if some tinhorn in the US has raised charges is obsurd. I think it fails by what I refer to as the 'other shoe' law- what would the US do if some government came into the US and kidnapped someone to face charges in their nation? If the answer is a diplomatic meltdown, then these whole thing collapses. Once Bush leaves office, will it be okay for Germany or France to kidnap him to face charges at the Hague for War Crimes?

David Stever, Saint paul, Minnesota

Would it be alright under American Law for the British to kidnap and American kidnapper in America if the crime occurred in the UK?

Jonathan , Haifa, Israel

This can't be good news for Donald Rumsfeld.

kist93, Tallahassee, Florida

Several comments stress that people in this country are subject to British law. This is no longer the case. Our slimy, treacherous government sold, no, gave our sovereignty away to Europe, remember? and now we are subject to European law. Our own courts' decisions can be over-ridden. What is Europe's attitude to this problem, here discussed, may be more relevant. You can bet it won't be in our favour.

Mid J., Dong Pu, China

That is a truly shocking law, that needs to be sorted out as soon as possible. America doesn't have the right to go into someone else country and do whatever the hell they want, it's just not on. I'm sure most Americans would be outraged to hear that their government has such arrogant policies. This is an outdated law, that needs to be sorted out; fast.

J Smith, UK,

Another example of america thinking it can do what it likes , it should be removed from the earth , and replaced with the south canada sea , The world can do without dumb yanks with guns , Invading countries they sold arms to in the first place , .....good for business , bad for humanity

David Evans, swansea,

America has the right to do what it wants (kindnap) in any other country regardless of their laws (human rights and protection)?

No wonder america has so many enemies in the world and no wonder they arm themselves to the teeth because of it.

kim, london,

TO: Scott, Houston, Texas, USA

You are quite right that Americans do not want to kidnap British citizens. However....have you ever known the current regime in Washington to give a damn about what Americans want? Or about the US Constitution? Or about international law?

Garth Strong, San Diego, CAL/USA

I wonder if this a small part of a pattern of events that makes is more desirable to do business in London and less desirable in New York.

In any event, it strengthens the hand of those who say that infringement of liberties as a result of terrorism will have unforeseen and adverse consequences.

Geoffrey, Sydney,

"Good-Doer" is perfectly happy for the US to kidnap or kill suspects and criminals on foreign land. I dare say that he would not likely feel so comfortable if 100 other countries were allowed to routinely kidnap or kill US citizens on US soil.

Tony Walters, Richmond Hill, Canada

What on earth is happening in this world today! How can America ever see that what they are doing is ever right? America stands by its rights and constitution, stating that they live in the land of the free what a load of posh! The American Patriot act saw the end to that, I understand that if a person has commited a crime then they should be duely repramanded, not bungled gaged and blind folded taken against there will, in the dark of the night unbeknown to anyone.
War has broken out for many reasons in the middle east, one of the most important reasons was for there to be the removal of a brutal and harsh dictator but hasnt America emerged as the new replacement?

charlie maine, worksop, Nottinghamshire UK

Who gives a flying toss what America thinks about anything? If an American agent attempts or effects kidnap in land under the sovereignty of Britain, they are criminals - end of story - and must be punished as criminals under British law.

I am shocked that the Government has not made a formal statement about this . It only goes to show how weak the Labour administration is.

Simon, birmingham, uk

There seems to be a difference of opinion on this: american citizens say that the americans can do whatever they want, to whomever they want, whenever they feel like it; the rest of the world say that EVERYBODY needs to respect the rule of law.

No doubt we'll be hearing the hypocritical americans lecturing everybody on how everybody has to respect international law yet again soon.

cotumely, london,

Junior, USA

Can i ask how you came to the conclusion that GWB did not steal the election? And that left wing papers agree?

Of course he did, any right minded half intelligent person in the world knows full well what happened in that election. Far too many important and influential people in the US needed Bush to win that election and it was made so.

Please, the facts speak for themselves. It was a disgrace

GM, Brisbane,

If you haven't committed a crime, what do you have to fear? The only ones who have anything to fear from this are the criminals, so why should decent people be against it? Whose side are you on, anyway? The US government, or the criminals? THINK ABOUT IT!

Eugene Nicks, Gothenburg, Sweden

To those Americans saying don't commit a crime and this law won't affect you....what about all the muslims who did not commit a crime but are legally allowed to be whisked off, kept in jail somewhere with no requirement to notify anyone you have done this. And this can be indefinite.

I am not talking about the Guantanamo guys but people who are American citizens with no proof other than they may have (mistakenly) be seen with someone else.

The problem with these laws, is that once allowed get applied in an arbitrary fashion - there is no oversight.

What about the CIA doing mind experiments on people who were none the wiser this was happening? That was done by a group within a state that felt they had the right to do this. These were citizens of America, Canada and other countries.

But the US would not prosecute them and would be pretty upset if Canada or the UK were to kidnap CIA operatives or the doctors they coerced into these schemes and bring them to trial elsewhere

Paul, Toronto, Canada

Yes! the US and the rest of the west is in decline. 500 years of western hegemony is coming to an end. Russia, China, India, Brazil and the rest of the developing world are the future.

Shawn, Berkely,, CA, US

If the U.S. kidnaps someone in a foreign jurisdiction then it has committed a criminal act. Such criminal act will be punished sooner or later. If the perpetrators are caught they will be criminally charged in the jurisdiction in which the crime occurred and have to face the appropriate sanctions. Already the legal and political powers in other countries are reconsidering the extradition treaties they have with the U.S. for obvious reasons.

Archie1954, Vancouver, BC

Was it Oscar Wllde who said

"America went from Barbarism to Modernity without the civilising bit in between" or something like that

Norman West

Norman West, Truro, England

This issue of estra-legal rendition is not getting covered in the US. A quick check shows for example that this story did not run in the Boston, Worcester or Chicago papers. Taken in context with a hundred other changes going on, this is part of a very dangerous transformation, one of which the American people are only dimly aware.

Those Americans who take the time to web-surf can keep informed. The vast majority, trusting in the increasingly controlled and skewed "major media" for their news, are living behind a kind of news "iron curtain", effectively neutralized while our democracy is being dismantled around us and preparations are being made for what our leaders casually call World War III.

Many of you have friends and relations in the States. You might want to make a habit of emailing articles like this to them, along with suggestions that they speak out. Don't assume they already know; odds are they don't.

Chris Horton, Worcester, Massachusetts, USA

Adolf Bush and Team America? starting to sound like that film cut closer to the bone than most of us thought

Udo , melbourne, Australia

As an American I can testify to the fact that we, as a country, are painfully ignorant of our history. Both nationaly as well as family-wise. We are less than 250 years old, yet most Americans couldn't tell you when their ancestors imigrated to the U.S.

We seem to only live in the now with little regard to the global impact our actions as a nation make. The government keeps its citizens dumbed down and rewrite history weekly.

There is however a minority in the U.S. of citizens that have a more global outlook or how things work or at least how they should work and our friends in the E.U. need to work on an easier path for granting us citizenship or at a minimum guest-worker status in their enlightened countries.

J Bishop, Seattle, Washington

I honestly can't see a huge problem with this. If Brits feel they can go America and commit federal crimes, whats worse the American government that seeks justice or the British government that permits its people to hide and never be held accountable for their crimes? One must remember that the type of crimes involved sometimes leaves thousands of innocent people penniless and their future livelihoods a thing of the past, as is the case with the NatWest 3.

Lauren, London,

This honestly cannot be true, what are these people smoking? kidnapping???

What on Earth is going on with this Bush Administration!!!!!!!!!!

silas, foster city, USA california

Don't be so guick to believe everything you read thats anti-american. You suffer from Stockholm syndrome. You have submitted and we choose not to.

roughfun, USA,

Stalin did not bother with kidnaping. Russian CIA was killing people abroad, right and left.

Casey Panek, Salem, Wisconsin

Boo hoo,

smells like fake controvery.

Maxx, Folsom,

As an American lawyer, let me explain: The US law is only that the criminal defendant cannot assert the kidnapping as a defense to the charge. The US is prohibited from kidnapping in any country with which the US has a treaty which forbids it. This is because treaties with other countries have equal force in the US as statutory law. So, if the US has a treaty with Canada or UK which provides that the sole means of capture shall be judicial extradition through that country's courts, US law would prohibit the kidnapping. The Canadian incident that is written about in the article was apparently an attempt to utilize Canadian courts -- which is not kidnapping. I hope this clears it up.
Please feel free to criticize the US for any of its many very real flaws. I, too, look forward to the day El Incompetente, Protector of the Invaders from Mexico and Coward of Crawford (Bush), fades into history. That's 20 January 2009. I'm counting the days.

David, San Diego, California USA

When your king is mad and has the keys to enough fire power to terminate life on earth three times over your word is law to the rest of the world irrespective of countries independent laws and past mandated treaties which the the Presidents absolute superior have formally acknowledged and enshrined into the laws of his land !
Oh well history books will now record that Cold War mark two began that fateful inauguration in 2001 in a place called Washington and that new empire of the right thus created will collapse internally from a combination of excessive debts and adverse population demographics like the last great Roman Empire some 1700 years before it!
How sad the Americans have now sowed the seeds of their own self destruction in the eyes of the world whilst destroying all democracies of the twenty first century they once fought for some fifty odd years ago !

ian deal, melbourne , Australia

I am proud of my great country and of my government’s difficult fight to keep all of us United States Citizens safe. Bringing people to justice is nothing wrong; shielding them from extradition it is. My country has the most protection afforded to defendants. We even provide them with a layer if they cannot afford one. We bring them in front of a twelve people jury. All these that WE the people protect the innocent. Here is a key word: WE. And if another country wants to take the place of our Judges, Jury and Legal System by shielding a suspect from extradition, then so be it. We have other means. We send a strong message to wannabe criminals out there. We will get you, we will never stop until we bring you to answer. You need not prove your innocence. You are innocent until proved guilty BEHIND ANY REASON OF DOUBT. Why be afraid. In an ideal world, YOU will come willingly. Why hide if innocent? Unfortunately, the World we live in today is not a perfect one.

G. Belicio, Inglewood, California

I disagree strongly with the US govenment (I don't call it my government, since I didn't vote for these Nazis). Bush & Co need to go, & quickly. I fear for my country & the world, with creesp like Bush, Putin, Chavez, the Iranian nut & Islamic & Christian extremists. Brown & others should speak out LOUDLY to the Bush crowd.

Russ, Oxford, , NJ USA

A country should NOT be judged on politics, for example China is a great country, however the Communist Party of China continues to restrict free-speech, yes Bush is not the best US president of all time (Reagan was).
I despise Gordon Brown, BUT I do NOT loathe Britain because of Gordon Brown.
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT

Chris, London,

Of course America has the right to kidnapp British citizens! America has the right to do anything; just like God has the right to do anything. If God can do anything, then so can America. Who's gonna argue with God? Who's gonna argue with America? Exactly; no-one! God probably spoke to George Bush, on one of their long-distance phone chats, and told him America is his favourite country and that they can do anything they want. And if anyone has a problem with that they can just go talk to God about it.

Andrew Duncan, Godalming,

Regardless of US law, kidnap is contrary to UK and most other countries laws, therefore to kidnap from the UK is an offence of which the perps can be prosecuted. It is an offence to conspire with others to kidnap even if the plan is not carried out. We could not extradite the perps from the US as the yanks wouldnt allow it so why do we have an extradition treaty with the US at all???

Alan, Chelmsford, Essex

I almost hate to read the news - everyday there's a new reason to be disgusted with this country.

Teri, San Francisco, CA, US

If I recall we have been at war with Iraq since Kuwait. We were only on a cease fire to begin with. I like how everyone forgets President Bush didn't go to war without an ok from Congress. If your so worried about being kidnapped from our country maybe you should solicit some lobbiests and get some laws changed. Quit complaining and be proactive. Put your libral senators and congressmen to work. There are alot of out dated laws out there you might want to find. If you all forgot we went to war in Vietnam to help out the French. Since when should we care if they like us or not. They don't like anybody and that includes themselves. We have to do what is best for ourselves not what is best for everybody else.

Tracy, St. Cloud,

I just find it beautiful that we can share our democracy around the world.

This country needs Ron Paul for President!

Cecilio Porrata, Allentown, US/Pennsylvania

America kidnaps constantly..i.e. Gitmo, secret detention centers, Abu Grhaib. Especially Abu Ghraib because it's the only one we actually have info about. According to the US Army's own report its 70-90% of detainees were INNOCENT! Other reports go as high as 96%.

This is nothing new, it's the shining light of democracy!

Cecilio Porrata, Allentown, US/Pennsylvania

No Great Britian they tricked you again, they will do anything they want. And just think what they do to their own citizens.

World stand up to see the foundation of America, the land of the brave, free and kidnapped.

Peter, Orlando,

What more proof does anyone need that the United States is being run by maniacs?

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Rich, Los Angeles, USA

I am a lawyer in America. We have an unbelieveably huge number of people in prisons, jails, probation and parole. The police are very, very good, and largely very honest and professional. The problem is with the legislatures that have criminalized almost everything, and set up mandatory minimum sentences. The Judges also are largely very honest, disciplined and well trained. Fundamentally, the problem is that by criminalizing so much behavior, the prisons are over-flowing with poeple. The "criminal justice system" has taken a life of its own. There is no "conspiracy" as such, but rather the reality of having more than 2% of the population in jail or prison is a result of over-criminalizing behavior. Now, we have budget problems at all levels of government, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to sustain this level of criminality. Hence, I suggest that a lot of behavior for which people are going to jail/prison will need to be decriminalized.

J.P., Fresno, California, USA

We forget it is a two way street What if Iran kidnapped an ex VP for crimes against Iran? commenet.......

Roy Johnson, Franklin,

America is OVER.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

They tap our phones, read our emails (read this message), kidnap people they don't like, torture those they really don't like, keep people in prison without trial, start wars over known lies, kill hundreds of thousands of people and that is just what we know about.......

Not the land of the fee and home of the brave huh? All that stuff is now only the brain washing of school children.

George Washington, Homeland, USA, USA

LOOK........... We are the SUPERPOWER in the world. So, long as we are the SUPERPOWER, we will do as we please. End of story. We do not care about the opinion of others and nor should we. This is the benefit of being the supreme economic and military superpower in the world.

What don't you people in Europe understand??? We are the Superpower. And here is another bit of news for you........ We will be the only superpower in the world for generations to come, even in the lifetime of your great-grandchildren. So, please teach them young not to mess with the U.S. of A.

All American, New York, USA

For rjc in Cambridge, that situation occurred when a group of English `mercenaries' kidnapped Ronald Biggs in Brazil in order to return him to England. Thankfully the then government refused to take him as the group acted illegally under both Brazilian and English law, and they considered the rule of law to be important then.

This reflects of the attitude of many US administrations, not just this one, even if it is one of the most extreme. US administrations have felt that it is their right to interfere in any country in the world they choose by using the CIA to overthrow their elected governments (e.g. Allende's Chile, among many South American and Asian states) if they deemed that it would be in the interest of the US (or the corporate oligarchy they really work for). The imposition of ID cards and the 53 point exit questionnaire have been introduced here at their behest (http://www.i-cams.org/Surveillance_intro.html) and our quisling government has chosen to do their bidding.

Jill Dandy, Worcester,

American exceptionalism knows no bounds, and unfortunately it's a virus that has infected way too many people over the years. I think most of us would be astonished to learn that the powers-that-be claim the authority to arrest anyone at anytime anywhere in the world.

If our Congress was worth a goddamn, they'd outlaw this abominable practice.

If I'm not mistaken there are a group of CIA agents who were arrested in Italy for attempting to do exactly what the article describes.

NB, Kansas City, MO USA

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who remembers that the kidnapping of American sailors who were accused of being deserters from the Royal Navy was one of the reasons why we declared war on Great Britain in 1812.

At a bare minimum, this sort of cavalier approach to the sovereignty of other nations should never supersede existing extradition treaties.

Ray Radlein, Atlanta,

Thsi si qutie scary. What if American spooks are caught in the act of kidnapping British citizens by British authorities? Will oen of the countries consider it an act of war? It woudl certainyl be more that a 'lover's tiff'

Duncan, Chelmford,

will there be "tit-for-tat".............foreign countries will be allowed to kidnap americans to bring them to their countries courts ? what a joke THAT would be !

kev, san diego, ca

Most ordinary Americans are fed-up with the illusion of being World Policeman and know it has brought them financially to their knees and the popularity of a skunk. Only 2008 presidential candidate Ron Paul has declared a true intention to end this madness and take America back to the people, by following the Constitution to the letter, as was intended by the founders.

Americans are decent people, it is the deranged, inbred power elite who secretly dictate USA policy, like Rockefeller and his chums, the globalist who are the problem. They will see their end in Ron Paul and the beginning of a new America we can all respect again.

Get behind Ron Paul, it's not just America's ass on the line otherwise, these people are serious in their goals of a New World Order dictatorship, and will start yet more fake wars or whatever means they wish to achieve this.

Lyn, Manchester,

I cannot believe the London Times would print such a slanted title. Of course Americans do not want to kidnap British citizens. This is simply ridiculous. I thought the London times was above sensationalized, tabloid journalism. I am sadly disappointed that I am mistaken.

Scott, Houston, Texas, USA

If someone agrees with this then let me pose something. What if any other country kidnapped an American for an alledged crime in that respective country? There would be outrage from America! We in America are going to suffer from our self rightousnous when another empire rules. We will be treated like dogs for imposing ourselves on other countries. The USA is the greatest democracy on Earth, yet most Americans don't want the war in Iraq and it still continues. How democractic is that? This country is turning into something not seen since Rome.

TheBigHo111, Las Vegas, NV, USA

This is the most despicable, outrageous and decadent news of the last 60 years. The Bush administration is ultimately betraying the idea over which the USofA was based on. Actually the US is rapidly becoming but a pale shadow of what it used to be. They are taking seriously and refining the old and stupid anathema: Yup! They're bad guys, but OUR bad guys. I rest my case...gee!

Marco Verdi, Rome, Italy

Using the excuse of "war on terror", we are witnessing the hand of law going to unchartered territory which has consequences for all, not just terrorists. If this is what "war on terror" is making possible then the whole episode of 9/11 comes into question, i.e. what were those bomb blasts heard before the two towers collapsed? The videos of actual news clips are on YouTube.

Tim, Berkshire, UK

Funny isn't it. The US can extradite the NatWest 3 for white collar crime, but when we or the Italians want US servicemen to assist in inquests in friendly fire incidents, they haven't got the courage to face up to the questions that need answers. Sooner or later, decent Americans, and there are many, are going to do something about their country because at the moment, it is a disgrace.

Peter, Brisbane, Australia

What a ridiclous story! Who made this one up? "America says"? Who says this stuff. How about naming names. And who used the word "kidnap"? I'm sure the times is good at inflaming their audience for the sake of the almighty pound. Can't you learn to write straight news?

thurda, Utah, USA

Just another example of the arrogance of a nation led by those who have no respect for their own constitution let alone the niceties of international law
The day is coming when the US is going to suffer bigtime for its crass stupidity. Pushing one's luck comes to mind.

antony. carter, bournemouth, uk

Why should I care about the sensibilities of a white collar criminal hiding behind mommy's apron afer he/she knowingly and smugly committed criminal acts hurting other people in another jurisdiction? Why is effective prosecution of white collar crime more common in the US than any other western nation? Why isn't the London financial community as transparent as NY? Why does London have the reputation of a place where anything goes?

John, Boston, USA

Humberto Álvarez Machaín was acquitted of all charges and allowed to return to Mexico. His abduction occurred on Mexican soil, and was NOT, repeat NOT, carried out by US government agents, but rather private citizens.

Machaín has legal remedy IN MEXICO for crimes which occurred IN MEXICO. Of course he cannot sue in a US court for that. There is no jurisdiction for it in the United States. That is the determination of the Supreme Court decision relating to Machaín's civil suit, after he was acquitted.

The decision relating to his criminal trial, of which he was acquitted, was that he was, in fact, liable for arrest and trial completely regardless of how he ended up within the jurisdiction of a country that had accused him of a crime. The court did not say that the abduction was legitimate, just that it was not a pertinent fact in his trial. This is the precise same logic that was used in the Israeli trial of Adolf Eichmann, and is neither new nor particular to the United States.

Richard, Chicago, USA

As usual, the Europeans show total ignorance of realities.

1 - A law on the books is still an enforceable law, no matter how some may feel about that particular law.

2 - Now that the Court has spoken, there will most likely be legislation to get rid of that law. At least we can hope.........

3 - There is great likelyhood that most European countries have that same archaic law still on their books, and if so, it is still a valid law and would be judged so by your courts if it were brought before them.

4 -Americans for the most part don't NEED passports - where the hell are they going to drive to except for Canada and Mexico where they would need one? Most European countries are small than many of our states, for crying out loud.

5 - European countries and Japan started WW2, not the US. As with WW1, we had to sacrifice way too many of our people to save you guys from your own imperialistic idiocies.

6 - Bush didn't steal the election - even the left wing papers agree.

Junior, USA, USA

I wonder... what would the US authorities think if a foreign nation abducted their citizens???

I bet it would be considered an act of terrorism/war!

When our governments cant protect us from other governments, its time for us to start protecting ourselves!

Sean, Adelaide, Australia

What I'd like to know is how a QC can even think of defending this stance?

Must be a very very good fee indeed.

For most QC's that would be a blot on their resume.

d lookwood, london,

One presumes that in a tit for tat situation. Those that perform the kidnapping are then themselves liable to be kidnapped back and brought to trial in the country in which they broke the law?!

Palmer, Largo,

And this makes America less of a human rights transgressor than all those dictatorhips they prosecute with democratic propaganda? The Archbishop was right, this is hostile imperialism.

I recently flew to New Zealand via LA. Even though we were in transit and did not pass US customs they photo'd and printed the whole Jumbo full of us. It was not a warm welcome to the Land of the Free, and word was that the airline is trying to secure another route because passengers dislike the US stop so much. One fellow passenger was almost deported back to the UK on account of a missing form a decade before. He was patronised with "ok we'll let you through because we understand the situation". I've never been so glad to get straight back onto a plane...

Anwar, Bromsgrove,

Bounty hunting applies to people who are arrested in the U.S., freed on bail, and then fail to appear in court. Bounty hunters are generally employed by bail bondsmen who are trying to get their money back. A person who is suspected or indicted for a crime (but not a bail jumper) should be arrested by a law enforcement agency or (if in a foreign country) extradited.

NS, Waipahu, Hawaii

They think they can kidnap people because THEIR law allows it? If I am going to be subject to US laws, I want to be able to vote on who makes their law.

sam, london,

Clearly you do not understand (many people on here don't, but I am singling out you because of limited space - sorry).

Yes, you are subject to US laws....when you come to America. However, too often, when people from other countries come to America to visit or for business, they believe they are beyond our laws.

If someone comes to America and breaks our laws, they better be punished.

Likewise, if an American goes to another country and breaks its laws, then they should be punished by that government's courts as well.

John, USA, USA

This is not the only odious US law on the books regarding 'rendition'.

The Helms Burton act, passed in the 90's extended the US embargo of Cuba to non-US citizens, making it a crime for foreign companies to trade with Cuba or 'traffick' in property 'formerly owned' by U.S. citizens or by Cubans who are now U.S. citizens. This law states that any non-US citizen transitting through the US can be arrested and charged for violating the act. One UK businessman and 2 Canadian business men were initially arrested under this act resulting in such an uproar that Clinton, and later Bush, waived the arrests. Virtually all governments and world trade bodies have condemned the law but it's still on the books.

So far the rest of the world hasn't demanded that the US start arresting US citiizens/ corporations for possesing and trafficking in property seized during the revolutionary and/or later wars or in the decades following WWII, but according to the logic of the act, they could!

Steve, HCMC, Vietnam

There was a case like this that happened in Canada back in the 1980-1990's. A certain Mr. Jaffe, was kidnapped in Toronto by an American bounty hunter and brought to the US to face criminal charges in Florida. The Canadian government extradited the bounty hunter to face charges of kidnapping and succeeded. Mr. Jaffe had to be released, if I recall, and was permitted to return to Canada. Bounty hunters are not associated with any government agency; they go after those who skip bail hence a bounty for their return. Just another example of how America wants to rule the world.

Derek, Vancouver, BC

Derek Williams, Vancouver, Canada

Kidnapping in most countries comes with a big jail sentence. In many European countries a kidnapper could have received the death penalty until recently. So I would expect that US kidnappers will not receive free passage if found out, and this would put US Embassies officials at risk of loosing Diplomatic immunity if they were involved. It is generally a very good idea to respect the sovernty of any nation that you want to do business with. It might not be a real good idea to start treating European nations like client states, I am not sure that the United Stated is quite that strong or that this would be in our long term best interests even if we were. If this is legal only a moron would make it standard US policy. We could find ourselves in a situation where another country or individuals would hold hostage a great many US citizens until they get theirs back, tit for tat.

Nelson Deyoung, cs, co

There is a simple solution, like Mr. Sullivan pointed out. Simply charge the offending American with kidnapping, abduction, transferring across international lines and what ever else. Place a $100 million bond against the US holdings in Britain until justice is brought forth and then go and kidnap those involved in the UK. By the way, you will find the first person on that list to live to live at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC. Just ask if Georgie can come out to play.

For the first lady...we don't like that the US sees itself as the overlord. How would the US feel if Iran came and took US citizens that it saw as criminals in their country. How would you react? With the disgust and hatred the world will view the US, and they are doing more than you think. Your own newspapers talk about that. USA, stop trying to rule the world and try being a part of it.

JNB, Greenock, Scotland

it should be made clear to the US authorities that the British Covernment considers the protection of British Citizens to be a prime obligation. Therefore in the event of a kidnapping or attempted kidnapping of a British Citizen appropriate charges would be laid against all involved in the enterprise. As it is likely that any decision of the US to kidnap a Brit would be likely to be taken at a very high level, can we look forward to our Government bringing charges of conspiracay to kidnap against George Bush or Condeelaza Rice?

Phil Davies, Denia, Spain

What a reckless mad house the United States has become. I hope the next President if elected reviews the new extreme USA idealism of rights in there quest for comeuppance of 9/11.

Paul, Ottawa, Ontario

As a US citizen I feel I must apologize to the rest of the world for our current administration's obvious imperialistic zeal.

They typically will take the case of some obvious transgressors (such as the bankers in this case) to trick people into accepting unjust laws to be applied to everyone.

I didn't vote for them. Other than voting against them in every election, writing letters, etc., I don't know what to do but wait for their terms to expire and hope they don't first find excuse to declare martial law and nullify the election process.

I sometimes think they're trying to provoke violence so they can make such declaration. I don't understand why our legislators are such wussies and don't impeach--and it's Cheney more than Bush who needs removal.

My country is *really* screwed up right now. Don't think we regular folk here don't know it. We just don't know what to do other than wait and hope voting still works.

declinetostate, declinetostate, California, USA

We are so sorry. Please there many of us here in America who are embarassed by the Bush administration's inexcusible
actions. We're trying, but until the '08 elections come in November, it's going to be a long hard ride for all of us.

Gary, Atlanta, Georgia

why are people on here bitching about US Law? I am American and I simply have to ask, do Americans and all the pretentious Europeans on here not know the laws? It is over a 100 YEAR old law. Geez, look it up. Don't like it? Don't want it enforced? Call your damned Congressman and have him do something about it.

jj, Memphis, TN

"US says it has right to kidnap British citizens". Well at least they are honest about it! Any other country would just kidnap you!

Rob, Brum, UK

I don't understand, the article simply said that U.S. courts wouldn't give an individual a so called "free pass" if they were presented to American authorities, by form of rendition. The article certainly didn't say that the American Gov't routinely practices this, because it does not. It would be counterproductive to any other criminal extraditions, and would certainly undermine international soverienty. I don't know what it is about many Europeans, they can't seem to pinpoint it on what they hate about the U.S.; is it everything, maybe just some things. They seem to talk tough, when it comes to insulting Americans, but any other country on earth they seem to have a great respect and understanding of. I mean come on now, even at the REMOTE chance the U.S. gov't would kidnap a British citizen for commiting a crime in the U.S, it would have to be a high crime. And thats an act of WAR?! What happened to your peaceful diplomatic European philosophies; or that dosen't apply to America?

Confused, Phila, USA,

"He cited the case of Humberto Alvarez Machain, a suspect who was abducted by the US government at his medical office in Guadalajara, Mexico, in 1990. He was flown by Drug Enforcement Administration agents to Texas for criminal prosecution. "

The current loss of liberty just repeats the precidents of the War on Drugs. Hardly anyone stood up for the rights of drug users. Now the rights of financiers, gambling website hosts, and authors are in jeopardy. After one group loses rights, other groups follow.

The US congress oversteps jurisdictional lines when it outlaws a London business transaction or an internet bet in Antigua and Barbuda. Similarly, Turkish courts overreach when they charge Dwarkins for hate speech, and UK courts overreach when they convict people outside the UK for libel. The governments of the US, Turkey, and the UK should respect individual rights and national sovereignty more. Peaceful protests brought reform to all 3 countries in the past. Time to petition.

Joseph, NYC, USA

Then we have a right under UK law to imprison those who attempt to kidnap.

If, while in the UK, any US citizen takes someone against their will the UK police should attempt to extradite (or should we go over and kidnap them back?) the offender.

Paul Sullivan, Chester,

Well there are a lot of crazy laws and loopholes out there. It's just a good job that our governments aren't in the hands of people who will do unethical things. Phew.

justin case, Bristol, United States of England

Lets be honest. The US is NOT going to kidnap any Brits...Personally, I respect the UK. Although I am now American, my ancestors were British. Lets remember the real enemy of the mordern world ISLAM.

politically UN correct, Kentucky, USA

It seems to me that if the US argues that it has this right of kidnap in the UK or Canada then the UK and Canada have an equal right to nab any US citizen anywhere in the US. I think that the US is absolutely wrong to argue this position. What has happened to my country?

John Milland, Green Valley, AZ USA

Where was passport control?? My passport gets checked in and out of UK when I visit. And if they use a diplomatic badge, then they should be persona non grata! And forbidden forever into the UK.

duke, rockville, MD usa

Clinton wasn't elected until 1992, which means he actually wasn't in office until January 1993. This would be president Bush Sr.'s administration.

Dan, Des Moines,

K from Houston locks, loads and fires a historical dud: The reference from the 1990s was to the year 1990, when George Herbert Walker Bush was President. Bill Clinton didn't become President until January 20, 1993. What pathetic ignorance these Rush Limbaugh twits exhibit!

John, Charlotte, North Carolina

U.S.A. - Just think "Roman Empire" without the aquaducts.

Larry, Plymouth, Minnesota

I have been telling people for years. You have no rights when you visit the USA.

This is just another example of how non-Americans are treated like second and third class citizens of the world.

How would the USA act if Canada kidnapped an American and brought him to Canada for trial??

Yet you will go to war to help them with this abuse.

Tim, Toronto,

So then, they will kidnap someone who hasn't even gone to trial yet, let alone been found guilty of anything.
When they kidnap them, do they put hoods on them an put them in diapers, like they do in the middle east and Asia or do they treat them a little better?
What a bunch of terrorists!!

Tim, Toronto,

Dear World,
The/My US government is clearly insane and headed straight for fascism. Please get off your butts and take over already. Thank you.

Rebecca, Huntington, WV

I like to look at the big picture. What if say Iran has a 1800's law on the books to kidnap citizens of the USA for crimes against the Iranian People and is up held by Supreme Courts of Iran.

Would the US government have no problem with the Iranian secret police coming to Washington - grabbing Karl Rove and flying him to Iran for trial. Also water-boarding him into confessing to his evil and criminally behaviour against the Iranian people.

Remember, the Iran has to obey US law - just like the US has to obey Iran law - right.

Praise Allayah - Hallelujah to Jesus. The world is going to Hell in a hand basket and I want off.

Jay McMahon, Stoney Creek, Canada

K in never never land:

Information Please: 1990 U.S. Statistics. President: George Bush Vice President: J. Danforth Quayle ...

Like father like son ... shrubs think they are redwoods.

J in Germantown, TN, Germantown, TN

The United States of America is no longer a nation of laws...quietly it has turned into a Dictatorship of and for the Bush Executive Branch.

Impeach Bush...you might say?
Members of Congress are now speaking openly that The Bush Administration has informed them that attempts to use articles of Impeachment against the administration will result in a declaration of Martial Law .

Most likely...America, will fall into Martial Law/Military Dictatorship prior to (or just after) November of 2008...unless the the "heir apparant" to the President is also a member of the CFR ruling cabal.

Pray for America....better yet, pray for your loved ones...pray for yourself.

Cmdr. Zim, Omaha , Nebraska

As an American, might I suggest to the Rest of the World that the time is right to go kidnap Henry Kissinger and Robert S. McNamara and bring them to Justice. Follow the Example of those American Values we like to export through the barrel of a gun! Kidnapping and Torture: American Values!

Then, after the Bush Presidency is over let's kidnap his fascist ass too, and those of all his War-mongering cronies and bring them before the International War Crimes Tribunal! Guilty! Find them all a dank cold cells and fit them with assorted iron masks (because the US is the only first world country that still practices State-sanctioned Murder they'll just have to live). Besides, death is to good for them. Too peaceful and final. Let get some life-extension research going so they can literally serve consecutive life-sentences!

Let them subsist on Monsanto GMO flavorless and nutrition-free Tofu in a Wackenhut-style Supermax prison, (like the kind they are building for all of us) !

Having MySay, Paris, France

So in the 1990s the CLINTON white house said the USA could Kidnap people because of a Law stemming from the 1860s.

Yet all you idiots want to take shots at BUSH.

Goobers!!

k, Houston, USA

They think they can kidnap people because THEIR law allows it? If I am going to be subject to US laws, I want to be able to vote on who makes their law.

sam, london,

not really suprised. have been a long standing pal of us, even before alistair cook.. they are now just to insular and paranoid, and tho i do not think it is uni national they think they know better than anyone else. the impression to the outside world is a terrified nation, no matter what the "fire power" because they have no sence of normal

repmar, cambridge,

Timinator, Old West, California, (Where else?)

Your government, and to my undying shame, mine too, have been guilty of MAJOR crimes for many many years. Who is bringing them to book

Moto503 (Living life in Spain where the government doesn't interfer in your life)

Moto503, Malaga, Spain

When it involves Suspected terroist you call it rendition, when it can include bankers its called kidnap. Editorial judgement ehh?

James , london, UK

It´s all psychological really. If you´re the world´s policeman both in military and civil law, then your paranoia is abated somewhat. Need and desire for control nearly always stems from insecurity. The US government is insecure because it does not really understand developed and sophisticated cultures and like an adolescent playground bully feels the need to suppress countries that they don´t understand or believe to be a threat, now or in the future. But of course, like a bully, they don´t take on countries who would stand up to them anymore. Kennedy did over Cuba. After that they lost the plot.

Nigel Gibbins, Burgas, Bulgaria

If the US Authorities kidnap a British Citizen in the UK, then by any standard that would be an Act of War.

Doug, Glasgow,

QUESTION:
"Please someone, name a recent case of US kidnapping in another country".
Marcella Smith, Ohio

ANSWER:
Humberto Alvarez Machain was kidnapped by the US in Mexico in 1990.

Machain happened to be a sadist in the pay of drug dealers and who was hired to keep torture victims alive to endure more pain, however is that a excuse to kidnap someone in their own country?

Robin Bather, Metepec, Mexico

Outragous, but no shock. It only shows the refusal of the US to be a good world citizen, much less a leader. Rather, we have chosen to place ourselves above the law and ethics. We puff up our chest to better display our arrogance.

Carl, norman, USA/Oklahoma

The US would be better off kidnapping its own drug dealers off the streets and applying justice.
Have you ever walked down 42nd Street in New York and seen the drugs being openly sold?

Robin Bather, Metepec, Mexico

What happens if the police catch an American government employee in this country and find him or her guilty of kidnapping or attempted kidnapping within our shores? Would he/she be jailed and serve a sentence equal in length to any other criminal? If not, why not?

Presumably with this unspeakable government of ours they would be set free, secretly if it could be covered up.

The murder of a Greenpeace activist aboard a ship in dock in New Zealand by the French some years ago springs to mind.

Clive

Clive Evrall, Warwickshire, England

This makes all Americans abroad open targets for the crimes of the current Administration. Since they are in control and untouchable here by making their crimes 'State Secrets' we need couraegeous countries to apprehend and try these individuals in order to help restore freedom and democracy around the world. We especially need to be rid of foreign agants in our government. After all diplomatic immunity should NOT apply to war crimes and the only rogue nuclear nation should not even be in the UN let alone turning itself into a fascist dictatorship and be allowed to carry out genocide within its own territories.

Ted, Klamath, Oregon

There have been a few cases in the past few decades whereby US bounty hunters kidnapped accused Canadians and returned them to the US. While the US Courts accepted jurisdiction, Canada sought and obtained extradition of the bounty hunters to face kidnapping charges.

I am not aware if UK courts would refuse jurisdiction in criminal cases based upon how the accused ended up in UK jurisdiction.

The recourse is to seek extradition of the kidnappers back to the UK.

William, Sechelt, Canada

How scary... I can understand wanting to prosecute people for crimes they've committed even if they go to another country, but this too extreme. Kidnapping? Seems like the U.S. should have to cooperate with the governments of the country the suspect is in or something. I know that slows down investigations and could possibly let the person get away with their crime, but I don't feel comfortable with the thought of my country kidnapping people.

Rachel, Knoxville, United States

I am a firm believer that if you cant do the time then dont do the crime. if you revert back to 1860 then that could be a good thing, actual election counts done by states not electoral college than a citizens voice would be heard not grouped together like a bunch of grapes on a vine, as foe the " bail agent" and i use that term loosely,he should be taken and locked back up. He is a poor representative of bail agents in the U.S.

Paul, bellvue, wa

I am American. You Brits need to defend your rights against the US imperial overreach. Just make it clear that anyone kidnapped in Britain and taken to the US will result in US officials in UK being held in prison until the kidnapped Brit is returned home.
That is what the Swiss threatened to do when the US tried to kidnap Marc Rich from their country.
This issue sounds like it would have political traction in Britain.

Richard Carpenter, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

This means that if Americans are wanted in Iraq for crimes against Iraqis, then Iraqis could kidnap them and bring them to Iraq for trial. How would the US government feel about that?

David Leeman, Harmony, Florida, USA

I might point out that England has claimed the right to kidnap Americans for a long time: I seem to recall something about seizing American citizens to serve on British warships during that little tiff you had with Napoleon...

Colin Young, Mercer,

I do wish the terms, "the United States", or "the Americans" were not used in speaking of wrongful actions which are, in fact , those of barbaric individuals and their corporate funders who managed to bully and bribe their way into office in the United States for no higher motive than personal gain.

English-speaking commenters , whether critics or apologisers of such actions, uncritically use these terms.

Suzanne Gorenfeld, Novato, California, United States

I'm surprised that this is news to the UK. The Supreme Court of the U.S. decided the Alvarez-Machain case back in 1992. While I find the law repugnant, it is the law of the land in the United States and has been for some time. What other nations should do is renegotiate their extradition treaties with the United States and stipulate that extradition be the exclusive means by which the US obtains suspects from abroad, that victims of these renditions be released and granted a civil action against their kidnappers, and that the treaty be self-executing.

Jim Flammang, Baton Roug/LA, USA

It's time not only to formally legalise the kidnapping of Americans anywhere on earth but also, as US Federal Law claims to apply to the whole world when in it is in US interests, it is time to apply UK and EU Law to all Americans and to all American businesses whenever it is in UK or EU governments, citizens or businesses interests so to do. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Gerard Mulholland, Paris, France

Where's the big deal in this?
Israel has been doing it for years, and there has never been any International response ....
Would somebody please tell me that if I commit a crime - CRIME - in the US and then retreat to the UK, that I should be immune to retribution?
We all know that extradition is a defence rather than a deterrant.
Good on you, US .... GO for it!
(But, please will you allow us to do the same?)

David Michael, London, UK

This is actually unlawful under US law. Extraditions of criminals are governed by a treaty between the US and the UK. Bush believes he can kidnap terrorism suspects under his Constitutional powers to wage war, however there is no possible legal basis for extending this argument to other types of criminals. This looks like a slippery slope to even worse foreign relations and a further weakening of American influence throughout the world. What will happen when the countries involved decide to go to the USA and kidnap the kidnappers?

Bill, New York, NY,

Good grief! Talk about paranoia! Talk about inferiority complex! Whether one idiot lawyer said what the Times claims he said or not, the idea that this is the policy or even attitude of the US government is beyond idiotic.

Oh, and BTW, "Dog the Bounty Hunter" is not a US government official or employee. That this is the only example of the US kidnapping hapless private citizens shows how silly your argument is. Oh, and the criminal in question - Luster - is an AMERICAN CITIZEN!

I am blessed and thankful to be an American. But, you all are OK too - that is when you're not gratuitously bashing America and Americans.

Suzy, Central, Texas

Isn't there an old saying, 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'? Sound like it would be okay then if Americans were kidnapped in the US and brought to another country to face charges. How about George Bush for starters?

Steve, Napier, New Zealand

...a plague of times...mad men lead the blind...
Strong image of authority...a dog is obeyed in office.
Through tattered clothes small vices do appear,
robes and furred gowns, hide all.
Plate sin with gold, strong lance of justice hurtless breaks.
Arm it in rags, a pigmy straw pierces all.
(William Shakespeare)

Michel, London, UK

The definition of civil is " adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse; not deficient in common courtesy: After their disagreement, their relations were civil though not cordial."
In order to maintain a civil society those whom can't adhere to norms of polite social intercourse should be held accountable for their errors. Or else you have no civility.

Bowman, Midwest, USA

One of the big issues of the War of 1812 between the U.S. and Britain was the issue of the British kidnapping U.S. sailors to serve on British warships. Why is now legal for the U.S. to kidnap anyone when we do have an extradition treaty with that country?

Brian Humphrey, Melbourne, FL, USA

I have to agree. If the U.S. kidnaps someone in another country and brings them here for trial,then all other countries have that same right. There is another reason for this ruling. The bush administation wants Iran to bring someone from the U.S. to Iran for trial. The U.S. government can then invade Iran for the false purpose of rescuing the U.S. citizen. The real reason is to get what is left of Iran's oil. China and Russia also want it. It should start next August or September. There is nothing that can be done to stop it. It is when the bad times for everyone will start. Briton's might not want to come to the U.S. next summer.

tom, Beaumont, Mississippi

Complain all you like, but the USofA will do as it wishes, why? because the percieve that they can with utter impunity.

I don't have a solution, but voting in another Governmant would be a start.

Nick, Emsdetten, Germany

"America" does not feel this way, the increasingly fascist administration does.

Lauren, Lexington, Kentucky

Marcella said: "Please someone name a case of kidnapping by the US in any recent history."
Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, Egyptian citizen kidnapped by US in Milan on February 17 2003 and finally released on February 2007.
It's a well known case. Are you really that ingenuous?

Andrea, Italy, Rome

I love this country. Only in(?) the USA is our law applicable outside our nations borders. I LOVE IT!

Will, Greensboro, NC, USA

Criminals should not feel safe anywhere.
Do-gooders and the PC lobby will shout and scream, but normal law abiding people support USA policies most of the time.
Well done, USA.

Frank, London,

But would English law arrive at a different result? A British government official (X) who conspires to kidnap a foreign national (Y) from a foreign country for trial in England will no doubt be committing an offence: and Y may have a claim against his kidnappers and X and indeed the state. (That might well make it less likely to happen.) But however he arrived here would not Y still be put on trial for the offence for which he was sought?

rjc, cambridge,

As an American, I must say - it's a great law! Now would y'all please kidnap our moronic nazi president, vice president, sec. of state and other assorted fascists, and try them for the war crimes we ALL know they are guilty of? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

The courts won't do it here, because they are staffed by Republican appointees, and the Democrats are mostly controlled by the DLC, the organization the Clintons are from, which is another oligarchy supporting foundation.

They belond in prison. If not ours, then yours!

Thomas Payne, Washington DC, US/Stateless

As many comments have confirmed , Kidnapping is illegal in Britain as is "conspiracy to kidnap". The mere fact that this is even argued in a British court of law is abhorrent. A clear message should be sent to the American authorities in the form of arrest warrants for conspiracy issued for any particular official who advocates these tactics should they enter Britain.

Andy, Belgrade, Serbia

My, aren't American politicians pleasant people?

Can we kidnap them for being crooks too?

Star, Lancaster,

"Extradition treaties? What are those? We're AMERICUH, WORLD POLICE. We can do whatever we want in your own country!"

Tara, Birmingham,

I wonder what the official U.S. position is on having its own citizens kidnapped by a foreign government. I'll give you an example: An American cartoonist makes fun of supreme leader Kim Jung Il, which is illegal in North Korea, and is subsequently kidnapped to stand trial in North Korea. My bet is that it would not allow it. Hypocricy?

FreeThinker, Alexandria, Virginia, USA

Why the panic? Of 100 US citizens asked, just over 80% of them could not locate Europe on a map - so the chance of the being able to kidnap someone from the UK are extremely remote. I think someoene earlier stated that only 18% of US citizens will ever own a passport because they will never travel abroad. I know many New Yorkers who claim to be of Irish decent but just last year only one outta six could pinpoint Ireland on a world map. Chances are, if they sent their agents abroad, they would accidentally kidnap some poor farmer from Tasmania by accident instead.

Crashing Dashing Kid, Manhatton, New York State

Make no mistake about it the Tolman’s are a nasty bunch and the USA has been fighting for their extradition from the UK for a number of years. Meanwhile their companies, such as Trafalgar Tours and others, still continue to do mega business in the USA. I pay my full share of taxes so why should the Tolman’s continue to scam me and other American tax payers and get away with it, they most assuredly are not victims in any way shape or form.

Mike, Santa Monica, CA, USA

Ok, this is unacceptable. Good trade and economical links with America are good but this is BAD. Can our goverment show a spine and call this woefully unfair law out?

Edwin Jones, Lingfield,

This is like a virus trying to infect the entire body, while most of the remaining living cells in that body find peace, as they comfort themselves in their sleep. For the entire body to function properly, the sleeping cells must become awake.

Ebohon Idonije, Montreal, Canada

It is very uncomfortable for me right now to be a US citizen. I am alienated from my government to the highest degree I can remember. Mr. Bush has created an atmosphere which disgusts me, yet I feel very powerless to change things. The US feels much more like an oligarchy than a democratic republic. The idea that one writer had of kidnapping Mr. Bush for war crimes certainly resonates. Take our President, please. While many others in US government are responsible for arrogant behavior, Mr. Bush put them in places of power and gave them permission to behave horribly.

During the run-up to the Iraq War, I was pleased that the French stood up to us in the UN. May our Republic survive another election.

Rob, Minneapolis, Minnesota

America is becoming increasingly isolated in the world. It's natural allies are finding it harder and harder to respect what it stands for. What does it stand for now exactly? Get your act together America. You should be a beacon but you're behaving like an idiot.

Steve, Portsmouth,

I do not apologize for the stupidty of my government because I do not have a government. I live in a Red state where if you aren't registered as a republican and a baptist you have a real risk of being hauled off in shackles if you don't watch yourself. The Bush judicial systems and the Bush corporations rule this country

Unamerican, Carrollton, Alabama

I think this great!
The reason being, if we can kidnap foreigners, then other countries can also. This means Bush/Cheney/Rice and Rumsfield,could be kidnapped for war crimes and wisk off to a law abiding country to be tired for their crimes aganist humanity.

J.D. Miller, Sherman, Texas

Hitler had the same rules.

Sporty, Laurel, MD

Team America world police !!
Come on America get the Neo-Cons and their worthless agenda out of power.
It's one one thing the patriot act taking away the rights and freedoms of US citizens but kidnapping foreigners ?? Where does it end ?
Bet fox news made it sound a lot better.

Peter Griffin, woodhouse, England

whats wrong with being americanised? they dont pay £1 a litre for their fuel, dont commit crime and you wont get kidnapped.

wiliam, brampton, uk

The great weak bully is just trying to frighten you all. The US is not a rogue elephant as one poster described. It is more of a yap yap ankle biting dog, trying to convince you of how scary it is. Is this the same US which is threatened by 19 hijackers as much as it was threatened by Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. The same US which is unable to defeat third world nations in war. Like all bullies they want you to be so scared you will not fight, when in reality they are the coward.

It is sad, that a once mighty nation is now reduced itself to this level.

Bill, Oz,

The US brags about liberty, of being a moral civilization opposed to torture, etc, but then tosses these values to the side if they interfere with any of its interests. Do you know how many successful treaties the US made, sometimes with treat, with our indigenous indian peoples in the 19th century, and then broke those treaties when they became inconvenient? A major portion of US population seems to believe that morality follows from authority, and authority is determined by the stronger force.

Garrick, Corvallis, OR, USA

No reson to be upset as long as they don`t sell you on a slave market after arrival in god`s own country.

Gerry, Frankfurt, Germany

Bring them home and teach them. Superpower status doesnt grow on trees.

Rob, Florida, USA,

the reason USA can do it is two fold: First it prevents violent criminals from seeking refuge. Second uk signed an agreement that prevents the uk from sending US citizens to the international
court justice.

If the US was really out get the UK we would call your over due Loans from WW 1 which have be paid back in gold.

ip.freely, fort knox, ky. USA

To be fair to Bush, this was US law before he stole the election. The US Supreme Court said so in 1992. Our shameful failure to remedy that decision means other countries can kidnap Americans on American soil, and we have no right to complain.

On the plus side: We are harboring war criminals in Washington, DC. PLEASE come and get them.

Dogger, Knoxville, USA / TN

Sorry about my government's utter disrespect for the opinions of mankind, treaties, laws, and stuff like that. This tendency to believe that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CAN DO WHATEVER THE HELL IT WANTS is merely yet another indication of our imperial decline. Or as Mr. Toynbee said, the autopsy of history shows that all great nations commit suicide.

(Don't tell the NSA I wrote this, okay?)

Tirebiter in Sector R, Corvallis OR, US of A

Welcome to the rest of the world Brits.... after supporting america through tough times, you're now on the other side of the fence.

roy, Vancouver, Canada

Isn't that what the Gestapo used to do? How things do change. Good becomes evil and evil becomes good.

Better add the US to the Axis of Evil.

Tom, Paris, France

Too funny, most of you either CAN'T read, or you have a REALLY short attention span. This is about Brits, coming to the U.S. and setting up a business and defrauding investors, then fleeing back to England with millions of $ ...by won't England send them back for a trial?...you sure would want your money back or at least to see "justice" served to somebody that took your life savings wouldn't you?...this is NOT about some "average Joe" getting a speeding ticket in the U.S....these are MAJOR crimes people...

Timinator, Old West, California, USA

This attitude may encourage the kidnapping of American citizens in retaliation.

regis palombo, porto alegre, brazil

What is the position in International Law? Has the US agreed to it? (Doubtful!!) Also what does EU law say? I am aware that the american spirit won't rest until the whole world is americanised!

Derek, Burton, UK

The now infamous DOG the bounty hunter kidnapped a convicted rapist from Mexico not to many years ago.Then brought him back to the good ole USA for the government.Mexico since dropped the charges against bounty hunter DOG for kidnapping.So what good is the Mexican government now?

daphney, BKK, Thailand

I think it is plausible to bring the criminals back from other countries.otherwise ,if the criminals have enough money and opportunity it is possible to escope ,the criminals can't be punished .

Deming Liao, china west normal university, china

Leave us alone!

There are plenty here who won't touch America with a 10,000 mile bargepole, yet you still hunt us down. Let us carry out our lives in peace, whilst you self combust in your own country!

Howard, Manchester,

The USA is still very much a young country, not yet 250 years old. Like both its northern and southern neighbours, the country was born initially from European colonialism, and its Government spent a hundred years crushing its own indigenous population. Only during (because it was attacked) the second world war and afterwards did the US abandon its isolationist mentality.

Fewer than 20% of its people have passports. They do not travel. This is important because it indicates that the US has not yet grasped the concept of the meaning of history and culture. It has never had to learn to live peacefully with its neighbours, in the same way that the Europeans have. It is still a child, albeit a powerful one.

I spent some time there this summer. I loved the country and its ordinary people. They were wonderful to me, to a person. But there is a paranoia at government level. For the Americans to be loved at World level, they will first have to learn to love the World themselves.

Mark, Manchester, England

I suspect the USA will be reduced to taking in laundry before it's over with.The Chinese have already started telling them not to dock their war ships in Hong Kong,and did they listen?You bet your damn ass they did.Now lets see them brag they will kidnap someone from the chinese country.

khang, bkk, Thailand

Sounds OK by me. If we can't hand the bad guys over because we are hobbled by the Human Rights Charter, then good luck to America if they can kidnap them and whisk them back to the USA by whatever means.

Lagenda, Kendal, Cumbria

As a country, we really have to start standing up for ourselves, or else it won't be safe to travel outside the UK. The fiasco of the Iranian naval kidnap, this woman in sudan, plus the MR Bean film mentioned elsewhere in your paper, and now we apparently accept that the US can snatch our people any time it wants and we won't do anything. As travellers overseas, we will be seen as an easy option for victimisation, and frankly I don't want that at all.

andrew, cirncester,

If people are kidnapped from Britain then we can extradite the guilty from the US, i.e. those guilty under British law of kidnapping.

Otherwise they should be told that Britain considers it an 'Act of War'.

That should do it.

fnusnuank, Gen., Switz.

If I come to London and pinch a packet of crisps then return home, can y'all send someone to kidnap me? PLEASE?! It's truly embarrassing to be an American these days.

Julia, Abilene, TX USA

The US is not a party to the International Criminal Court of Justice and yet has the audacity to kidnap people to its shores. This country refused to sign the Kyitoa Protocol, the Law of the Sea, the Accord on Small arms, Biological weapons and Nuclear Proliferation. The Americans are the most hated people on earth, because it is a collective responsibility when they elect a government to wage war and disregard human lives and common decency. How can it be a great nation when few nations like sycophantic UK follow it like a dog. The British musr wake up and stand for what is expected of British justice and respect.

Water Bear, sydney, Australia

I wonder what the US would say if their 'official kidnappers' were arrested and imprisoned in the UK. Kidnapping is a criminal offence here and if they were caught I bet the US would soon change their tune.

Norm, Newcastle, UK

The US will have to learn that the world does NOT revolve around "America" (apologies to South and Central Americans!)

This narcissism and exceptionalism is making other people angry, and rightly so. "It's not all about Me!". Everyone has to learn that, usually at a much younger age.

Julia Iskandar, London, England

It may be legal in America, but anyone who kidnaps someone in Britain, be it the American Atorney General himself, is guilty of an offence under British law. I believe that kidnapping carries a potential snetence of life imprisonment

Terry Hamblin, Bournemouth,

You chaps and chapettes need to put your foot down on this species of judicial arrogance. I would say that most US citizens would be shocked to know that this is the position of its own gov't. As far as I know, this is not the Old West and it's not 1860 anymore. Not even here. Many here hope the next election will end the careers of these colossally nervy imperialists. You could start the process there.

John J. Kavanagh, Everett, Washington, USA

Don't do the cime, if you can't do the time.

Not only is rendition perfectly legal and reasonable, foriegn execution should also be carried out if you were sentenced in absentia.

The gun and the rope were invented for a reason...
If we can't catch you to hang? Nothing wrong with shooting at you.

Moral of the story for all foreign evil-doers?
Don't Tread On Me

Good-Doer, Des Moines, Iowa

All laws designed for for terrorists will extend to every day life,that is the nature of the beast ,its called mission creep.Mr Wolfgang,the lady reading out the names of dead soldiers,and eventually 56 days will soon be the norm for everyone.It is all about control,they dont know where their money comes from and get no information about law breaking from their advisors but they want to know where you go,why your going there and what your spending your money on.I suggest they get the Westminster data under control before they start monitoring the rest of us.They have the right idea putting adverts on the TV about benefit fraud but seem a bit hypocritical when it comes to their expenses and donations.It may be cynicism on my part but I have noticed a nasty side to adverts from DVLA and TV licensing,"you can not hide from our computer we know where you are"All this information was computerised for our benefit,we were told.Something sinister is happening and it should be stopped now.

JohnP, Newcastle, UK

Viv old bean, Jonathan has got a point and seems to me like he is on Planet Earth.

The whole country is up in arms (rightly so may i add) about the 15 day jail sentence for naming a teddy bear Muhammad. But nobody seems to be up in arms over the fact that we can be taken off the streets and given a 28 day sentence for doing nothing at all in the UK. if someone suspects you of doing something it can get you 28 days jail, where are the protests?

As for this news about the US then it should really make everybody think about the reasons for going to third world countries and dictating our own morals, democracy and laws on these countries. If America and the UK are serious about making the world a better place should we not start by leading by example? Should America not be a beacon to democracy, freedom and fair laws? No, America just does as it pleases and rides over everyone to get what it wants.

It is indeed a very valid point that Jonathan made. Glass houses and all of that!

GM, Brisbane,

Irael got away with abducting Eichmann from Argentina. Nobody in the West protested although Argentinian sovernty was violated.
So what is the difference?

Brian O Cinneide, eThekwini, Afrika Borwa

It just shows what the shared values we always hear about between Britain and America really mean. The only thing that at least the current American government cares about in a British government is that it knows its place. America can do anything it wishes whenever and wherever it wishes as long as it is stronger than anyone else, and will do whatever is necessary to remain stronger than anyone else. These are the values of the current American government. It isn't ideology except in the rationalization of the use of force for reasons not understood by those using it. They think whatever they do is right and they don't like to think too much anyway.

Maybe Tina Rhea wants her country back. I'm not sure I weant anything to do with it any more. Even with Bush gone it has done this sort of thing too often and too long.

Christopher Hobe Morrison, Pine Bush, Ulster County, NY, USA

Lighten up, this is not US law or (common) practice. This is one twit's opinion; note that it was a UK counsel making an argument in a UK court on behalf of the US-not a declaration by Condoleezza at the UN.
The bounty hunter reference is c**p, that is a domestic practice generally for recovery of a bail bond.
Slow news day?

Kawaja, qom, usa

The American justice system has been expanding its powers over here too, rather dramatically in the last 15 years to where its coming in abrupt contact with more and more of our own citizens at alarming rates. Its like a government on its own authority and opinion polls show only a small minority of the people pass all these laws and approve funding them. The war on terror has given impetus to greater spending and beefing up of the raw power of the police and security forces and that has bled over into routine policing which it wasn't supposed to do. Instead of terrorists they will use fear of predators or falling refrigerators or whatever. The trend will continue no matter who is in office with the current mind set of "our government" which is run by the essentially the same people the past thirty years no matter who is elected. We have 2.1 million people in prison here and the media preaches fear 24-7. I don't see it changing.

Brian Stewart, Los Angeles, USA

I think it's great that the US goes after people who commit crimes in our country, no matter which corrupt government shelters them.

If I commit a crime in your country, I find nothing wrong with your government coming after me wherever I flee.

Rob, an Ugly American, ny, usa

The flaw in the US position about kidnapping suspects for trial in the US is that, if caught attempting to kidnap anyone in the UK, the American would-be kidnappers would be liable to trial in the UK and confinement in the UK.

Don Loughlin, Bellingham, USA, Washington State

I'm not sure why everyone is surprised; the US's disregard for sovereignty in these matters isn't new - the only thing that is, is the acknowledgement that our judical system and our government is irrelevant to them (even if our judges and politicans cared - which they don't).

Those of you who try and take comfort in the fact that in the Tollman's case they tried to use the Canadian police to bypass the extradition system ('drop them off at the border') should remember their 'bounty hunter' system takes no interest in how the bounty arrives. 'Dog' the bounty hunter almost succeeded in breaking mexican law by kidnapping a man. If he'd been successful the US judicial system wouldn't have cared; infact his own extradition back to mexico was blocked.

Also remember that New Labour and the High Court allowed the Natwest 3 to be extradited despite them being british citizens who comitted a crime against a british company based in london. This is what Pax Americana really means.

Balwant Singh, Birmingham, UK

Most Americans would NOT agree with the Bush administration on this (or anything else). We are counting the days until the next presidential election since Congress apparently does not have the guts to impeach him.

Janie, New Orleans, USA/LA

Marcella, you state that the us haven't kidnapped anyone recently.

Totally incorrect. Most the prisoners in Gitmo were kidapped. What abut all the others hidden around eastern europe kidnapped by the US.

This US policy means that the US can not have any right to complain when other nations kidnap their citizens.

DS, Glasgow, UK

USA and UK stuff? That is not "The Boss".
Like the music and lyrics now ok but my main point is different.
I will also give back my national passport.
Message to UK-USA power-elites is : we do not believe you now.

brucethe boss, kemi, finland

Kidnapping is a felony in all civilized nations.

While an American court might not free a kidnapped prisoner on the grounds of his having been kidnapped, the kidnappers themselves should be subject to proscution in American courts ... although likely the courts will decline, on "bounty hunter" grounds.

However, the nation in which the kidnapping took place can and should issue a warrant for the arrest of the kidnappers. That warrants should be honored by all nations. For example, the CIA agents who kidnapped someone-or-other in Italy are currently the subjects of arrest warrants.

It is extremely short-sighted for my American government to support the use of kidnapping; any advantage is extremely temporary at best. Unfortunately, our current ruling regime is not noted for thinking in the long run.

rewinn, Mercer Island, WA

So presumably, if a foreign head of state annoys the American administration, (s)he is therefore fair game?

As if the US wasn't enough of an international disgrace already.

Come and get me, Plymouth, UK,

America will even send in the army to get their man. Do you remember Noriega in Panama? How many innocents dead to get the suspect into court?

Jim Payne, Oliva, Spain

Some people would accuse President Bush and others of war crimes. Would it be ok therefore to kidnap him and put him on trial in the Hague? Or possibly keep him without trial in a Guantanamolike institution...for how long, three, four, five years might seem reasonable?

Mike Hughes, Copenhagen,

The US is an international rogue elephant and our spineless political establishment just goes along with whatever outrage they perform. Between our supine protestation before the US and the EU we have lost our sovereignty almost completely.

oldasiahand, Guildford, UK

The hegemony of the United States is claiming is similar to that that Britain once claimed in the not too distant past (indeed until the 1960s), though it was perhaps many years since it was exercised. What is Law in the USA is one matter, however such is not law in Britain and when in Britain US citizens must obey British laws. Any Federal agents exercising their right of appropriation of a "body" are breaking a multitude of laws and provided the British police are up to scratch one "rendition" will very quickly be followed by an arrest (of the Federal agent) and due process.

It is nothing to get all your collective knickers in a twist about.

Unless of course, the police cannot get their act together - again.

Campbell, Auckland, New Zealand

What arrogance!

Tina, Dusseldorf, Germany

At what point does this become an Act of War ? And whose side would the British Government be on ? If this Government cannot protect its own citizens then in what sense can the UK -or anywhere- be a sovereign state, or the Govenment be said to actually be a government ?
What is the US position on the abduction of US citizens by a foreign power/? This was the cause of the 1812 War, and presumably would be termed an act of terrorism and the act of a rogue state.

mark francis, London,

No big surprise there then. We already know that the US does what it wants, when it wants, without anyone stopping them, so what's different?

Rosy Knight, Sheffield, UK

Cool, an infinite loop of kidnappings: The US kidnaps someone in England, breaking English law. So the UK should go to the US and kidnap the parties responsible, for prosecution in England. So the US goes to England and kidnaps the English kidnappers for prosecution in the US. So the English go to America and kidnap... ad infinitum.

I suspect that's why extradition treaties were established in the first place.

Jonathan Hendry, Cambridge, Massachusetts

It is high time the rest of the world to imposed sanctions on the US until it amends its attitude to human rights and the pollution of the environment.

Bill McCann, Suzhou, China

Americans involved in this type of activity should be under no illusions that kidnapping people in the UK is itself a serious crime and carries a heavy sentence which I seem to think is a maximum of life imprisonment. It's time the US government remembered that it is a member of, not the master of, the world community. If it is to deserve its title of leader of the free world, it should abide by the accepted rules of behaviour and respect the laws of other nations.

S Foster, Doncaster, UK

If an abduction plot was to be discovered on British or European Soil, the abduction agent (whether a US "bounty hunter" or not) would be acting criminally and subject to criminal law proceedings. It appears that only if the abduction to the US is successful, that the US claim the kidnapped person has no redress over the method of getting him/her to the US.

This amounts to state sponsored criminality, most unappetising from any nation, especially a western one.

The last such event appears to be 1992, which is hardly that long ago. It is imperative that the US modifies its law upon this point, otherwise it gives tremendous impetus to 'rogue' states to develop the same pernicious argument.

Paulus, London, UK

Marcella Smith, what about that chap in Panama, Oriega?

Derek, Shanghai, China

How would the USA react if another nation enforced the same laws on one of its citizens? Once more the US displays the prevailing attitude that the rest of the world is populated with "Untermenschen."

PTT, Reading, UK

Wow, you people love to jump on the hate America and President Bush in particular train awfully fast! Did you read the article? This 'kidnapping' business dates back to the 19th century (that's the 1800's, dears), and I don't believe George W. Bush was in the White House then, but you could look it up. And 'rendition' dates to the '90s, also before President G. W. Bush's terms. Also, I notice the referred to accused people in the article are at this time fighting extradition to the US to face trial for their charges. They haven't been kidnapped. Please someone name a case of kidnapping by the US in any recent history.

Marcella Smith, Ohio, USA

During the civil war, a yankee vessel kidnapped 2 confederates diplomats by stopping and searching a british ship.
It almost caused a war between GB and the northern states... and it seems that the non respect of treaties and international law( oh, the amerindians!) is an US tradition

We should never have sent La Fayette to help them

O Cazier
Paris ( France, not Texas)

Cazier, Paris, France

Gordon Brown returned from Europe not having agreed a Referendum and now this. The law of this land, our land, is now being dictated to us by Europe and the USA. Also I am sure the supreme court doesn't have duristiction over here. One of the first things Gordon brown did when he came to office was to annonunce that our relationship with America would be looked at with more scrutiny in the future and that it should be 50/50. However as for no rise in tuition fees and a referendum on Europe which were both outlined in the 1997 manifesto to name but a few, this government has a habit/addiction to lying. With the daily scandals coming from whitehall, it comes as no surprise America is trying to get a piece of the cake. However on a serious note America has got to stop throwing its weight around, because kidnapping people from OUR country breaks OUR laws.

Nitan, London, England

Where does one draw the line?
Can the US snatch a suspected terrorist but not a tax fraud?

The tax fraud should be happy. He is far better off being tried in the US. GB does not have a 4th amendment, unanimous juries and the like.

W B Adam, New York,

This is a long-standing problem with the USA, which believes that it is not bound by international norms and also is not obliged to accept reciprocal treatment, such as allowing its own citizens to stand trial in other countries. The message is clear for individuals across the world: avoid dealing with a renegade country which is outside the rule of law. Ameri-fraternizing can be dangerous for your health.

Martin Baldwin-Edwards, Athens, Greece

Many of us can hardly wait until these thugs are no longer in charge of our country. We want our America back!

Tina Rhea, Greenbelt, Maryland US

This means that the USA can bring anyone under its jurisdiction, by what other countries acknowledge to be a crime!
It shows simply that the USA has not developed into a civilized country, and that it as backward as it was then!

Adrian masters, London,

OK, In light of this law I would expect reciprocity, so it would be perfectly legal to kidnap someone in the US & take them to trial in any country of the world.

Anthony db, Eivissa,

Does this mean that we would get an all-expenses paid trip to the US, should we happen to say something nasty about Dubya? Carry a suitcase at all times, one never knows when one might need it. The FBI becomes WBI (if it wasn't that already)!

E J Murray, Kerry, Ireland

What in the hell?!!!

I'm an American and this really sickens me. I cannot believe the set this guy has. I'm really disappointed in my country.

Renee, NY, NY

Well, that does it for me. I'm happy to surrender my passport and my citizenship to this ridiculous country. Just tell me where and when!

Carmen, Nashville, TN USA

im sorry but the american supreme court does not govern british citizens only americans. Britain should fully stand up to this bullying tactic as this is not within Americas jurisdiction.

Rhydian, llanelli,

Jonathan old bean, what planet are you from?

Viv, London, England

We've played second fiddle to the US for so long, they're now dictating our own law. I doubt our lawmakers will actually do anything about this, as previous agreements between the US and Britain (for some reason) are always biased in favour of the US....Makes me wonder just what the motives of the people we elect really are.

Ben, Wilmslow, Cheshire

Let's stop lecturing Sudan.... You can get 28 days for nothing or half a life time, torture and kidnapping for nothing in the UK and US respectively. 15 days not even in prison for offending local customs seems almost humane from a country that has slaughtered hundreds of thousands (although clearly that means less to Britons than some mercenary being mildly treated by US standards at least)

Jonathan , Feltham, Middlesex