Tim Reid in Washington
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Politicians hate the word lie. When caught dissembling, they will concede that they misspoke, or misremembered, or even that they were economical with the truth.
Now Mitt Romney, the Republican presidential candidate, has added another entry to the lexicon of political euphemisms for the blatant fib.
When he said that as a boy he “saw” his father march with the civil rights leader Martin Luther King — a claim debunked yesterday — Mr Romney now says that he used the word “saw” as a figure of speech. Mr Romney said: “If you look at the literature, if you look at the dictionary, the term ‘saw’ includes ‘being aware of’ in the sense I’ve described. I did not see it with my own eyes, but I saw him in the sense of being aware of his participation in that great [civil rights] effort.”
Mr Romney, who seems to be having several “figure of speech” moments on the campaign trail, said in a key speech this month that he had watched his father George Romney, the late Michigan Governor, march with Martin Luther King. Mr Romney’s campaign cited a 1967 book, The Republican Establishment, which said that the senior Romney “has marched with Martin Luther King through the exclusive Grosse Pointe suburb [of Detroit]”.
But Mr Romney’s claim appeared unfounded after a veteran Michigan civil rights activist told a Detroit newspaper that George Romney never marched with Dr King in the city in 1963. When Mr Romney joined a demonstration in Grosse Pointe days later, Dr King was not there.
Confronted with this, Mitt Romney conceded that he had only heard of his father marching. He added that the statement that he “saw” his father march was akin to him stating, “I saw my dad become president of American Motors”. He told reporters: “I wasn’t there when he became president [of GM].”
Mr Romney, who is attempting to become America’s first Mormon president, released another contorted clarification after telling a talk show that he was endorsed by the National Rifle Association, the powerful gun lobby, when he ran for Governor of Massachusetts in 2002. The group endorsed no candidate. Mr Romney said on Monday: “It was, if you will, a support phone bank, which is not an official endorsement.”
Mr Romney’s Clintonesque explanations have so far not badly damaged his standing, although he recently lost his lead in Iowa and is tied with Rudy Giuliani at the top of the national polls. But his father’s explanation for why he supported the Vietnam War initially, when he ran for president in 1968, destroyed his campaign. Explaining his later opposition to the war, Mr Romney Sr said that he had been subjected to a “brainwashing” by US generals during a visit to Vietnam.
He was ridiculed for the statement and his presidential bid collapsed.
Tall tales
— Ronald Reagan told stories of his derring-do as a tail gunner in the Second World War — records showed that he had been refused active service because of poor eyesight. He did, however, play the part of a tail gunner in the 1942 film Desperate Journey
— The Democrat politician and former mayor of Atlantic City Bob Levy claimed that he had been a member of the Special Forces, even citing it in his 2005 campaign for mayor. In 2006 a newspaper report forced him to admit that it was untrue, and he resigned
— Seven months after Bill Clinton’s 1998 assertion, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky”, he was forced to acknowledge that he had “misled” the American public, but stopped short of calling it a lie, arguing that the semantics of “sexual relations” exclude oral sex
Source: Times database
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I'm not even a Romney backer, but I sure do recognize trumped-up hysteria when I see it. All of this carrying-on about the word "saw" is utter nonsense. Look up the word "see" and you'll find some twenty definitions, including "to picture something in the mind" or "to have an understanding of something," and so forth.
"Saw" can have MANY meanings. "The media" and all you dedicated Romney-haters demonstrate a severely limited grasp of linguistics, and/or are clearly paranoid. Good grief! Aren't there enough really important things in this world to worry about?
Do you REALLY think you will change voters' minds with such unreasonable ranting?
Ann McReynolds, St Louis, MO
Remember! Romney "looks presidential!" That matters to all the Neanderthals out there who have had their moment in the sun with the current president. Gad--I am so sick of the Kellys of the world who defend these cretins. It's time for the intelligent people to reclaim America.
Nancy, Chicago, IL
As we've seen in past elections, this shows the remarkable ability stupid journalists and stupid people have to get distracted over remarkably stupid and petty things.
Who cares whether Mitt mixed up his account of his father's civi rights activism? His father was clearly active in the movement. (I similarly did not care how far John Kerry's boat was from Cambodia, but that's another matter.)
The more stupid and petty things we allow ourselves to be distracted by, the less time and energy we have to focus on anything that matters.
And then we end up electing idiots who do a lot worse than mix up their accounts of things that happened thirty years ago.
I suppose, on some level, we deserve what we get...
Tim, New York, New York
Romney is another George Bush: a man born to wealth and power who has shown himself utterly incapable of understanding the lives of ordinary commoners like us and who cannot/will not/never never never admit being wrong or making a mistake. All he does is lie, dissemble, and equivocate while trying to create a sideshow as a distraction from his lack of qualifications for the job. He staunchly embraces some of the worst of Bush's mistakes, as if he's running for the office of Bush. Vote for Mitt, he'll be a clone of Gee Dubya, and we'll have at least four more years of the same disastrous military, economic, political and foreign policies.
windrider, Columbus, Ohio
Hey, Caroline (down the road in Jerry Lewis country), can you see pure, intelligent, man-of-substance Mitt explaining himself away in all those signing statements he'll be executing? So what does he mean, all-wise Caroline, by being "pro choice" as Mass gov., and "pro life" on the campaign trail? Or doubling the size of Gitmo? Yeah, I agree his salary won't define his worth let alone what he means!
Will, Peoples Rep. of Palm Springs, Left Coast
So "Politicians hate the word lie"? And what do reporters hate? They apparently hate to do a little homework, homework that would show that Romney has is, in fact, used the word âsawâ many, many times in the manner he claims. (Donât believe me? Do a search on the word in his speeches on his Web site.) And Iâd guess that reporters hate to be careful in their own use of the language. Did anyone notice Tim Reidâs sleight of hand where he changed the word âsawâ into âwatched,â a change that conveniently supported his lazy contention that Romney did not watch his father march. Romney is not perfect, but the evidence backs him up that he uses the word âsawâ in the figurative manner he claimsâoften.
Greg, Cody, Wyoming
I'm more concerned about the Mormon belief that blacks are subhumans who cannot get into (Mormon) heaven, and the ethical dilemma this would pose for a President who would be charged with upholding the rights of all people here on Earth.
Paul, Medins,
Shock news just in - Politicians are economical with the truth!
All this time we thought they were all honest, truthful, upstanding paragons of virtue, and now it transpires they might not be.
Whoever would have thought that the people round the world elected to serve might tell a few little white lies? Or even loads of great big lies?
It's not as if any of them have ever done it in the past. What? Eh? Oh.
shorehamview, Sunny Sheffield, The People's Republic Of South Yorkshire
Hell, I live right up the valley from there in Idaho and the Mormons not only influence everyday rights and laws, but if you express any type of progressive thinking around here, good luck in finding a job. The low wage jobs that are here are by companies that are many times owned by Mormons. They give you a choice here - work for nothing or starve.
Since Mitt worked for an equity firm that invested billions in Utah and Idaho, why are the wages so low? If these people are so highly religious, why would they let many of the people in this area live in abject poverty? They are very big with their bragging about how much money they have and what their companies are worth. I would think that these people need to lie just to justify their existence.
Mark, Idaho Falls, ID
oh mitt can run .. he can even get the nomination .. but no republican will be elected to the office of president in 2008 .. not after eight years of george (capital "R" republican) bush .. youcan take that to the bank .. the vast supermajority of the public are fed up with republicanism in general and will vote accordingly ...
jkat, knoxville , tn
Hey Caroline ...Am I to believe that lies should be tolerated more during the Christmas season than they are at other times? I'll make note of this ...I have been lying at the wrong times! I'm so thankful to have been enlightened by your "Christian" morals. Maybe we should look at it from an intellectual perspective ...is the risk of getting caught in such a fib worth the exceedingly small possibility of gain. I'm worried about a guy who can't figure this one out.
But, peace and love just the same.
Lynnie Schappert, left coast, USA
The word "saw" means as Mitt Romney has said. His father was obviously active at the time. Only a fool would attempt to misunderstand saw to mean, "Viewed the actual events with one's eyeballs" and exclude all other possible meanings of "saw". Duh!
Terryeo, San Francisco, CA
Republican or Democrat, we should not vote for anyone who does not speak the truth. If they can lie on the campaign trail imagine what they would do as President. Yes, they can explain away and treat us like fools, and even blame their handlers for saying the wrong thing. Elect a President who cannot express himself correctly? OK.. so I should not have to take an English class to understand my President. There are several candidates to choose from, letâs vote for someone who does not misrepresent themselves. Little errors by candidates speak volumes about who they really are and what they really stand for, this is what we need to focus on. We have a choice now, so letâs do what's right by the country and vote for truth and honesty. In a corrupt system where goodness and honesty are in short supply, we need a real leader. The best of the evils does not cut it with me. We need to demand more from our politicians. This is the right time to do it.
Asu, Buena Park, California
The only person who defended him is from Mormon-ran, racist Utah. Yeah, I live there but only because I'm stationed in the military at Hill AFB. If the US is smart, they won't let Gordon B. Hinkley and the mormon church's puppet win this election. I see firsthand how the mormon church influence everyday rights and laws.
Disgusted, Hill AFB, Utah
If you want integrity and honesty which is important to me. If your tired of being lied and pandered to there is really only one choice Ron Paul. His record speaks for itself.
paul t, bend, OR
It is a trurism that what wrong you accuse others, you
are, instead, guiity of the same wrong. The verb 'saw'
now joins the verb 'is' in the lexicon of liars and scoundrels.
Abigail Adams, Washington, USA
Mitt is a double talker- We need someone we can trust when someone asks a question.
We can not believe Bush or Cheney on anything they say.
Is there anything MItt disagrees with about Bush's handling of things?
MItt will simply bring us more lying, more wars, and more torture .
But he sure does "look" presidential doesn't he?
truthseeker, Charleston, SC
It's OK, we'll just take your word for it, Kelly Warnick of Orem Utah
Nick, Portland, OR
And you being from the UK would know anything?
Rick, norfolk, USA/VA
As the former editor of a semantics journal, and a member of the board of directors of two semantics organizations, I can tell you that Romney's use of the word 'saw,' in the sense he described, is quite common. "I saw my dad get cancer." That doesn't mean I saw the actual cancer or anything. Furthermore, we know that Romney's father marched in civil rights demonstrations, so he marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. in a quite legitimate, but not literal, sense.
Jacktar, Oakland,
Graham James, I tried to post on this blog all of the listings of photos and news articles that substantiate the senior Romney's involvement and marching with Martin Luther King. It is apparently to large because it would not post. I trust that I am not the only one in this nation researching this and the truth and photos are pending in the coming days. Suffice it to say it is compelling and all references are listed and dated.
Kelly Warnick, Orem, Utah, Utah
Then vote for Fred Thompson. He's just an honest man, and what you see is what you get.
Kerry, Lafayette, IN
Another NRA loving religious Republican for President will simply be another step backwards for the U.S.
Steve, Aberdeen, U.K.
He also said that he was endorsed by the national gun rifle assocation and that was proved also a lie that he explained away by being 'a phone vote' and not 'an offical vote'!
It just goes to show the difference in culture between the US and the UK when a person running for office boasts (or rather lies) about his connection with guns!
Kim, London,
Mr. Romney is the most electable, intelligent, person of substance. The media dissecting everything he says is so cruel and devilish in this Holiday Season. What did he do to deserve this? He is running with all the purest intent of serving our country in the best way than anyone of us can do. His salary won't even define he's worth. He is so committed at everything he does. He can reach his goals that he had set (even as a young man at tender age of 19-21.I would never know that Gov. Romney is a Mormon or member of THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS until it was written and magnified 100,000 times or more in the Media. Tell you what, none of the members of the Church are force to serve or go to Church every Sunday. All members of the LDS Church go on their own accord. We are free to choose to serve or not, no one gets paid a salary for their Church services even the Bishop. Other churches on the other hand have ministers who can afford a $7 Mil house in Laguna Beach!
Caroline, Redlands, CA
Kelly Warnick, the problem is that NONE of the documentation and substantiated reports show that George Romney did indeed march with Martin Luther King. All evidence indicates that he did NOT. And surely you don't go along with Romney's tortured explanation of this lie?
Graham James, Wichita,
I don't see how you can prove either way whether Romney senior was at a particular demo or not.
I marched in London during the stop the war campaign a few years ago and I don't remember anyone taking a note of my name.
iain, london, uk
As a Massachusetts resident, I can tell you that Romney is completely hollow - a shell of artifice and arrogance held together by hairspray. Fixing broken systems?! He was a do nothing governor who had no policies, other than to selectively act on issues that would help him seek the presidency. He will say anything to get elected. He is an avid hunter too, if that's what you call someone with a total of two "varmit" hunts ("if you will") under his vest.
liz, west newbury, ma
I would march with Martin Luther King even though my Dad didn't. Does that make me unelectable?
Mitt's Dad was for equal rights and fought hard to make them a reality where he had influence. Is that marching with or against King?
I'm marching wtih King today and plan to do that by marching with Mitt all the way to the Whitehouse.
I've been wondering why we haven't seen a leader of his calibre run for office for decades now.
Dan Weisler, Chicago, USA/IL
Romney is a boob. They're all boobs. And what's increasingly frightening and depressing about them is HOW BADLY they all want to be President of the US. I mean, okay, it's a nice job even if it ages one terribly. But these people are so desperate to win the nomination it almost disqualifies them from taking on the responsibilities of the position. How can anyone so needful of applause and status be trusted to make clear-headed decisions? The whole lot of them scare the bejaysus out of me.
JimBob, Encino, CA, usa
Perhaps he "saw" his father marching with MLK in the same way that Martin Harris "saw" the golden plates: "only in a visionary or entranced state" or "with a spiritual eye."
Curious Texan, Amarillo, Texas
I'm still 100% behind Mitt Romney because of his capability and his fiscal policies, but I am disappointed by this less than literal "memory" and explanation, however, the 1963 book says Mitt's dad marched with MLK so maybe he did and Mitt may remember his father saying that he had.
Who knows if the "long time civil rights activist" is correct or if he has an ax to grind and conveniently "forgot" the facts or fabricated the story that Mitt's dad George didn't march with MLK. Maybe the "long time civil rights activist" is having a convenient memory lapse. Could it be he is supporting Mr. "I'm-a-black-man-so-vote-for-me!" Obama??????????????
marie thomson, Redmond, Washington
It will be interesting when all of the documentation and substantiated reports show that George Romney did indeed march with Martin Luther King and was an avid supporter of civil rights after all of the hearsay and rumors. The way in which Mitt Romney spoke shows that the senior Romney was a public servant who did as he believed more humbly and convicted than for show. My Father has been a public servant all of his life and I always heard more of the good he had done from the reports of others than was spoken of in our home. Keep looking, but you will not find enough to keep Mitt Romney from clearly being the most presidential candidate. He has a record of fixing inefficient and broken organizations and systems. The best is yet to come.
Kelly Warnick, Orem, Utah, Utah
Even if you accept the figurative use of "saw" there is still the lie that his father marched with King at all (which apparently he did not).
I can't believe that after Bush America would want another fantasist for president .
Jimmy, sydney, australia
And we wonder why the United States can't get more good people to run for political offices.
AL, SLC,
A state governor with no experience in national or international politics, who comes from a dynastic family of wealth and privilege, whose game plan involves pandering to the extreme religious right, and who insists on bringing his "faith" into every decision he makes, in a country whose constitution couldn't be more clear about the critical separation of church and state?
Wait a minute - we've just had 7 years of that. And look at all the friends we've made!
At least Hillary and Obama came up the hard way, and grew up in regular neighborhoods and not a family compound. Mitt Romney has no business being president - the only way he got to be governor of Massachusetts is by saying he supported the same issues that he says he doesn't support now. He calls himself a man of faith yet he won't even take a stand for the religion he belongs to - which also just happens to be the most secretive, exclusionary and downright racist organization ever to get a federal tax break.
j arch, Santa Barbara, ca
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord. Of course I wasn't there myself but I heard it was great.
Henry Porter, Cork, Ireland
Is Mitt Romney ready to be president? Well, it depends on what the meaning of is, is!
tom, stockton, ca
None of the statements he made were lies. We use the same figuritive speech every day and often need to clarify our meanings. A popular presidential candidate has each and every word recorded and scrutinized. If you look at the character of Mr. Romney to give us some context, you will see that here is a man who makes mistakes like every one else, but is by and by a very honest, moral man. This must be taken into consideration when deciding whether to pass judgment on his statements.
Erich, Kansas City, USA
I'd say that Mr. Romney said what he saw to say what he said, but to mean what he meant was said as he saw it. I saw the difference when I started, but somehow what I saw was so confused by what was said. You get the picture. If we hold all politiions to our meaning, then we will become just as confussing.
D Petersen, McDermitt, Nevada
We don't need this guy as President in the figurative or literal sense.
Bruce L. Northwood, Washington, D.C., USA
This is the same kind double talk that propelled us into the war in Iraq, almost caused a US President to be impeached, and causes every American to pounder the idea that no matter who runs for office from president to your local community leaders that nothing will ever change for the better.
In most cases there is so much double talk going on in the back ground of any bill or piece legislation that the reason for the legislation is lost in the legal and bureaucratic ramblings of the very institutions that put the legislation in place.
If the words that our leaders speak can not be taken at face value as to their common meaning or definition than their words have no meaning and their words are of no value.
I hate the feeling that I'm looking for or voting for the person to be president that is the lesser of two evils. I want a candidate that is not afraid to step on toes and knock some heads around in Washington!
R D, Donalsonville, GA
It all depends on what your definition of "saw" is. Haven't we done this already, with "is" ?
Is there any word in the English language that really means what it means.....or does it depend on what the definition of "means" ? What about the definition of words like "literal" and "definition".
Erm, we could be here for a while. But then, it depends on the definition of "while" - OH CRIKEY !
Dave Cawdell, Phoenix, Arizona