"Why do we still even have a CIA? They are getting to be more trouble than they're worth. I want my tax dollars to be spent here, on pressing domestic issues, first." Namaimo, Namaimo, U.S./Maine
Because the last President who was going to rein in the CIA was gunned down in Dallas on Nov. 22nd 1963. There is only one candidate who has promised to rein in the CIA and who has blamed the CIA and other Intell forces for much of our Foreign Policy disasters. He'll probably be gunned down too.
Peace.

Christpoher Siess, Waynesboro, USA

oldnik007 uk
Rendition...
You have to torture them over there or we will have to torture them over here.

Ibrahim Turner, Eastnourne, UK

Hi,

Someone mentioned "all the Americans" posting here. There is a stranglehold on truth telling in USA, sad to say. Not sure how it is in UK, but over the years I've noted the Anglo nations march in step. You guys get all the overal orwellian surveillance with cameas. We get the talking the tube in the room telling us what to think. :(

Whoever is in charge is corrupt. That much is clear. And it also clear that this is a transnational bunch, so as an American (even though it may seem self serving) I like to point out that none of this stuff done in our name has been in our national interest. We are only guilty of being chickens.

Joe, NY, USA

Ahh if Jose Rodriguez disappears via extraordinary redition to some secret secret prison (didnt the communists use these as well) he wont be able to testify !

Tom, London, UK

I just hope citizens of the world understand that there's a lot of people in the US -- a majority, I believe -- who didn't vote for this guy, are tired of stolen elections (FLA in 00; Ohio in 04) and are sick and disgusted of the torture, kidnappings, etc. This would be awful enough if we were talking about some banana republic, two-bit dictator, but the fact that is' the US President is horrifying.

What's worse is that the most of the candidates running now aren't much better. They are totally compromised by AIPAC, the military, corporations, etc. I'm beginning to take a long look at Chris Dodd as he is the only one who has shown a willingness to stand up for the US Constitution.

tom, Peoria, IL, USA

"That is, if they aren't allowed to steal the elections again... and this time, protection against such thievery may be another benefit of that Plame based retribution. I hope so.

bbuc, St. Petersburg, FL"

Already plans for that have been unmasked such as the forcing of GOP voters to support the GOP chosen candidate under a legally binding contract when it comes to voting, totally illegal but what the heck eh?

But Bush does not need to steal the next election, all he needs is an "incident", one that if need be, he can declare a national emergency, under those rules, he can according to his signing statements dismiss the two houses, change laws without oversight, even change the Constituition and of course declare himself President for life if he felt he could get away with it.

In 1933, Bush's forebear tried with other "elitists" to overthrow the US government and install a fascist regime sympathetic to the Nazi's, this is what they have in store if they do seize control.

Ian Watson, Gillingham, Dorset

What I find obscene and disgusting is that Americans are actually debating whether or not waterboarding IS torture!
What has brought the country ands its people to even argue the case ? Because the pope approved it 400 yrs ago?

CIA Whistleblowers ( all too few) have stated that sleep deprevasion is a more effective way off 'interrogation'.
And what happened to all the so called truth drugs.

So why is this practice being condoned at all.
There is something barbaric and inexcusable and certainly self defeating in the likes of Abu Ghraib, Guantanimo, Rendition ( how quaint a term that is -lets call it what it is -torture by proxy) from a country which preaches to the world so called freedom and democracy.


Waterboard the White House staff and see what they say then ?
Meanwhile the world watches and awaits the day off reckoning.

Chris, Jacksonville, USA

quote
"Goodness Gracious me, aren't we all tied up in balls of knots just because America is doing what it has to do to protect us from the evildoers. It's better to torture them than for them to remove our heads. You're either with us or against us...and for the enemy."

Another brainwashed fascist peebrain.Run along back to your trailer buddy, isn't time for your favorite pro-wrestling show?

Lindsay Clark, Seoul,

It's incredible that nearly all the comments on this site are from Americans - are news outlets in the US really so bad and heavily self-censored that Americans have no choice other than to read British newspapers?

George Haig Brewster, London, England

After Sept. 11 attack dust settled, I can understand the telltale better.
George W Bush own words “Bin Laden wants to destroy our way of life…”.
Then Mr. Bush, you are a Bin Laden accomplice with a lot of power. I am terrorized by your government as is every time I entered the subway. Evidence of malfeasances keeps surfacing one after another: flagrant obstruction of justice, now destruction of interrogation tapes that suppose to reveal life saving intelligence. Let’s face it, you fail us miserably. America’s image needs rescue, fast.

Francois, NJ

Francois Rosefort, Bloomfield, NJ

Goodness Gracious me, aren't we all tied up in balls of knots just because America is doing what it has to do to protect us from the evildoers. It's better to torture them than for them to remove our heads. You're either with us or against us...and for the enemy.

Ironist, El Paso, Texas

Careful consideration of the 911 debacle reveals US gov collusion w/Israeli Mossad perpetration. All of this rigamarole about torture and warcrimes is devolved from Israeli/US world hegemony. Nothing, especially law, will get in the way of that. Witness Mickael 'Special Orders Don't Upset US' Mukasey. Folks, the inmates are runnning the asylum.

David Mende, Lehigh,

Well, I'm one of many Americans who think these criminals in the current regime should go to prison, maybe we could let them choose one of the countries where they send *their* enemies.

The biggest threat to America are these sociopaths who have hijacked the Republican party. As a Republican since Reagan's first term who loves America and rule of law more than a party name- it's the best thing that could happen for the stability of the entire planet.

Joseph, omaha,

It is past time to give a lie detector test to George Tenet:: questions on 9/11, the Mossad agents arrested on 9/11, and the authority to torture all need to be verified.

tom mcguire, montgomery, USA/AL

I laugh at the idea that the same chickenhawks who publicly claim clarity and an informed public are consequential for a democracy to work are the very ones who do their utmost to keep Americans in the dark.

It reminds me somewhat of Nixon's falsifying flight records of the secret bombing of Cambodia, Who was he keeping it secret from? I am almost sure the Cambodians knew they were being bombed as the bombs rained down on them. I am positive Russia, China, North and South Vietnam and North Korea knew of the secret bombing. The only people kept in the dark was the American public.

One can easily see the parallel of the 9/11 Commissions asking for any and all data dealing with the interrogation of prisoners and then being told here is what we have. And when queried several times about interrogation data replied you have what we got.

deke33, Frankfort, NY

Let's say that irrefutible evidence leads into the Oval Office - what then?

I'll tell you,. Nothing will happen to these thugs. Congress itself, doesn't have the ethics for it.

You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

Dennis, Athens, Ga

This revelation concerning tapes of immoral and illegal interrogations of numerous U.S. prisoners is just the last in a long line of outrageous activities of the Bush administration. Most of the immoral and deceptive activities have been sanctioned by the ‘Chicken Hawks’ of the Republican Party including many legislators, Dick Cheney, (V. President); Robert Gates, (Secretary of Defense); Michael Chertoff, (Head of Homeland Security). Of the most vocal supporters of torture in the legislature are Senators Christopher Bond, Tom Coburn (R), Bob Corker (R), Kay Hutchison (R), Jon Kyl (R), Mitch McConnell (R), Senate Minority leader, Saxby Chambliss (R) and ever-popular independent Bush lover, Joseph Lieberman (I). None of these persons have ever served in the military to defend the United States of America; they so ardently argue needs to torture prisoners and detainees for the protection and good of the Country. Most Remember these individuals when war crimes trials begin.

Peter Altmeyer, Palm Harbor, Florida

If the democrats or some touchy-feely Eurotypes have the idea that Americans will hold it against Bush for getting information out of these rabid killers by any means possible including waterboarding, they are nuts. Just as with Truman's decision to use the A-bomb on Japan, just get it done.

JL RONISH, seattle , usa

Sure, the first thing guilty Republicans and their appointees do when they are guilty is plead for immunity... Let's stop giving immunity -- let's start giving prison sentences. D.

David G., Los Angeles, Ca

Unfortunately, Bush/Cheney have got the Congress and the country so beaten down at this point, that there could be video footage and eyewitness reports of Bush personally clubbing baby seals, then taking drunken target practice on caged Gitmo prisoners, and playing Texas Hold'em with Bin Laden at the Four Seasons Jalalabad, and nothing would come of it, except a sly jab at democrats for wanting to always raise taxes, two Monica Lewinsky references, and a Rush Limbaugh attack on the growing amount of real estate on Hillary's bum. Then, a false terror alert and another missing adorable white girl, and the requisite three days will have passed before the American people have forgotten all about it - just in time for another special edition of 'American Idol.'

There has never been a bigger insult to the U.S. Constitution and the American people, and the worst part is we did it all ourselves. When sheep are led to slaughter you can forgive them for being sheep. We are our own fault.

j arch, Santa Barbara, ca

Had I been President Bush or VP Cheney, I would have shown more respect towards the CIA and FBI. They know where all the bodies are buried. It will be very interesting to see who turns out to be the real and courageous patriots at the end of this sorry chapter in our Country's history. So far they are Sen. Chris Dodd and that crotchety old man senator from West Virginia, Robert C. Byrd, who wrote a book too few people bothered to read and take to heart--"Losing America: Confronting A Reckless and Arrogant Presidency." Ah! Before we forget, there were those brave citizens who stood on the street corners, protesting the impending Iraqi war...so long ago.

Loretta McFadden, Austin, Texas

Whether or not the intel community comes clean isn't the issue. Some may, some won't.

This is just pigeons coming home to roost for the White House for betraying Valerie Plame Wilson. The weasels who did that to her will be paying for it for a long time to come.

In fact I'd bet their treachery will prove to be the gift that keeps on giving... and may be the reason we eventually see some of these people in jail.

That is, if they aren't allowed to steal the elections again... and this time, protection against such thievery may be another benefit of that Plame based retribution. I hope so.

If there's any other outcome, the UK can expect a slew of immigrants from my side of the pond.

bbuc, St. Petersburg, FL

It's all down to Cheney ultimately,that is one evil single minded man.

Bobby Charlton, Niagara Falls, Canada

There are many possible reasons for the destruction, amongst them is that Zubudiyah exposes the CIA or MOSSAD controllers who planned and executed the 9/11 attacks. Why else would the CIA have denied their existence to the 9/11 commission of inquiry?

I think there are many, many seriously disturbing aspects to this story. All "ordinary" people should understand that the "democracy" of the USA is a sham. Many decades ago, they tore up Magna Carta, the UN Human Rights Charter, the Geneva Convention and basically any treaty or law that we "ordinary" people consider core to civilised behaviour. The USA is run by the neo-barbarians. We must not appease them any longer, doing so would make Chamberlain seem like a tiger in comparison!

David, Perth, Western Australia

The US practices torture ... Does that surprise anybone The same country does not even give basic human rights to all its citizens. Why would it surprise anyone when the same country has been the prime sponsor of dictators around the world while espousing democrary at the same time ? Perhaps USA should be renamed United States of Hypocrisy.
This is a war crime... are we going to see prosecution of George Bush ? Actually its Dick Cheney, I would like to see prosecuted.

Rud E. Gee, NY,

What struck me was the mental image of President Bush sitting in the White House watching 'videos' of Mr Abu Zubaydah being 'waterboarded' (partially drowned) by CIA agents in one of their Secret Prisons in Thailand. God Bless America, Land of the Free.

Karl, London, UK

We should take the gloves off when dealing with A-Q.

Dan, Iowa,

The CIA from 2001 to 2005 was simply out of control! Thank God lots of heads have rolled and there is a new generation of leaders there. Remember, this tape-destruction incident happened before Hayden took over.

Haile, Cleveland, USA

This is CIA payback for Valerie Plane and for being blamed for the 'faulty Intelligence' leading up to the Iraq war. Believe that Bush has called his father (former head spook) to put out the fire on this one. He and Cheney are worried, and rightly so.

John Smith, New York,,

Let's keep in mind that the tapes weren't destroyed because they may or may not have shown waterboarding, but because Zubaydah said he was working with members of the royal Saudi family. It is this fact that Bush wants kept secret.

Wayne A. Schneider, Pawling, US/New York

There may be just over a year left of this criminal administration, but impeachment -- or prosecution once they leave -- is the only serious response to this criminal bunch.

Former Republican, Pasadena, CA

It appears that this could be the straw that broke the camel's back.

If it's revealed that Bush viewed the interrogation tape of Zubaydah, he would be directly complicit in obstruction of the 9/11 Commission's investigation, and also proven himself to be a liar.

It would be highly ironic if this of all things is what finally gets him impeached.

dotmafia, ca,

Let's remember how well immunity worked for Ollie North.

Fallon, austin,

Why do we still even have a CIA? They are getting to be more trouble than they're worth. I want my tax dollars to be spent here, on pressing domestic issues, first.

Namaimo, Namaimo, U.S./Maine

Now that some of reports of the activities of this administration are coming to the light of the public conscious and its apparent disregard for The Rule of Law, does anyone think that the White, justice (just us)department and the CIA will come clean? I think not. If you believe that they will tell the truth to the American people, than you can join my grandson waiting by the chimney for Santa Claus to come down and put all the toys that he asked for under the Christmas tree.

gary, los banos, ca