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From Times Online

February 21, 2008

China and Russia cry foul after over satellite

A missile is launched from USS Lake Erie

David Byers and Jane Macartney of The Times, in Beijing

Need to know: expert opinion on the satellite operation

America's decision to destroy a defunct spy satellite orbiting Earth by firing a missile into outer space provoked a diplomatic row today, with both China and Russia accusing the US of having carried out a covert weapons test.

The Pentagon claimed that it had fired the missile from the Pacific Ocean to destroy the satellite - which was 133 miles above the Earth - purely because of potentially toxic hydrazine fuel on board the spacecraft which could harm humans.

However, Moscow and Beijing complained that the missile strike smacked of hypocrisy as the US had rejected a joint attempt by the two countries from banning weapons in outer space only a month ago.

And the European space firm Astrium suggested that the Pentagon might also have wanted to destroy the satellite to prevent information aboard falling into the hands of its rival powers, which American officials have denied.

In a briefing today, Marine General James Cartwright, vice chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters that the SM-3 missile had been launched from the USS Lake Erie in the Pacific at 10.26 pm local time (0326 GMT), and had struck the satellite at 22,000 miles per hour.

He said that it could take another 24-48 hours to know for sure that the tank containing the hydrazine had been destroyed - but added that the chances of any debris, or hazardous gasses, breaching the earth's atmosphere and harming humans below were remote.

"The intercept occurred. We are very confident that we hit the satellite," he said. "We also have a high degree of confidence that we got the tank."

He added that images of a fireball when the missile struck the satellite, which were shown to journalists, indicated that the hydrazine tank may have been struck. "We have a fireball, and given that there is no fuel, that would indicate that that is a hydrazine fire," he said.

Of the possibility of debris falling, he said that the Pentagon was monitoring the situation, but added: "We have seen nothing yet in the way of ... re-entry, which has survived to hit the earth."

Confirmation that the Pentagon destroyed the spacecraft this morning triggered a fresh diplomatic row with Russia and China.

A Chinese state newspaper, the People's Daily, criticised Washington for hypocrisy for rejecting a treaty to ban weapons in space proposed by Russia and China and then firing a missile at the spy satellite. Washington claims it had rejected the proposed treaty as unworkable, and said it instead favoured confidence-building efforts.

"The United States will not easily abandon its military advantage based on space technology, and it is striving to expand and fully exploit this advantage," the newspaper commentary said.

Speaking at a press conference this morning, Liu Bianca, a Chinese foreign ministry spokesman, said, tersely: "The Chinese side is continuing to closely follow the US action which may influence the security of outer space and may harm other countries."

His words were believed to have been carefully modulated to echo criticisms levelled at Beijing by the Bush Administration when China fired its own ground-based missile into an obsolete weather satellite in January 2007.

US defence officials say their case is different because Washington, unlike Beijing, informed the public and world leaders before firing their missile. They also have insisted the only concern driving the US decision to shoot down the satellite was that the 1,000-pound fuel tank could survive largely intact and release toxic gas.

The Pentagon also denied suggestions they wanted to destroy the satellite to prevent part of the classified spacecraft from falling into the hands of rival powers.

Jeremy Close, a spokesman for Astrium, Europe's biggest defence firm, which employs 3,000 people in the UK, said: "If part of the satellite was to fall intact to the ground, or partially intact, it might yield valuable information about the type of cryptography used by the satellite to communicate with the ground.

"It would be a political coup for an unfriendly country to the US to get hold of that technology from falling debris."

About the same time when the satelite was shot down, two other things happened. 1) Internet communication cables connecting the midle east with the rest of the world were mysteriously cut (not just the ones of the coast of egypt, also in suez channel and indian ocean) 2) Iran opened the oil trading burse where oil will be traded in curencies other than dollar, thus punching the last nail in the greenback's coffin. Watever other reasons for the shoot down, (and there's usually a list) when combined with the cut cables the message to the markets is clear: communications with the new burse are not safe. Your money, if you choose to do bussiness there, are not safe. The weaker the US becomes, the more likely it is to deploy what is left of it's military force. Thay can not attack Iran directly. They spent that option when they stranded their army in Iraq (after Saddam started selling oil for euro, triggering it's rise above the dollar). Now american army is a hostage to Iran,

adam, Mysliborz,

Take a look at what U.S have done in Iraq.Of course we have enough reasons to worry about their next step on planet earth.The best way of erasing the military advantage is "let's we all have it".We want no war.But we have to defend ourselves.Winner take all and is always right,that's all what history about.We don't want to be a "winner",we seek no fight.But al least let us not be the loser,you all know why.

Li, Beijing, China

To Neil from London. I've spent a year in London and know how "sober" people can be there. "Spectrum ZX81 computer!" sorry. but I don't know that kind of model, if you do, perphaps you're just keep using it? And I beg your pardon , but everyone more or less educated won't doubt Russian scientists' qualificattion, at least they don't at Nobel Prize Office.

Olga, Ufa, Russia

Please lets wake up before we have a New World Order in place and stand against a 4th Reich.
Our society already look like a very sinister combination of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and 1984 by George Orwell. Fascism aready ?
The war on terror has taken our civil liberties away - soon if we don't act our legal system will be controlled in Europe through the Lisbon treaty.
Bush's keeness to go to war with Iran is sinister. Hitler ruled Nazi Germany with the same terror tactics used to manipulate us post 9/11 so whatever the reason for the shooting down of this spy satellite be it increased surveillance, hiding advanced technology form China or Russia, Biological warfare, blocking off communication systems for the period of time it takes a country to committ atrocities to its population it certainly looks like we are at the at the tipping point of losing complete control of our basic human rights Please wake up before RFID/ID cards, smart dust, MK Ultra/Verichip are here

Louise, Manchester, England

I think Nikola Tesla would turn in his grave if he knew that his inventions had been used in the destructive way of "our Brave New World"/"1984" ...todays reality.
Who knows what the purpose of the satellite was but considering Nikola Tesla invented such ground breaking things such as tapping into our planets Ionosphere to harness limitless sources of free energy - This could not be metered so it was hidden by JP Morgan for a century, wireless technology, Death ray, manipulation of the frequencies to varying hertz for mind control purposes and control of the whole mental system- our frequency is at 6hz /Hitler did speeches at 8hz to hypnotise the masses , man made lightening and weather control - Therefore why Global Warming?JP Morgan sold 700 patents on Teslas stolen inventions - should we not be asking more questions about life today and where the NWO is taking us and the impact of the surveillance/control inventions /relaxing of rights this century - remote viewing/ MK Ultra

Louise, Manchester, England

funny old game space stuff, if it was in such a low orbit why not just catch it with the space shuttle? too easy I guess, much better to blow it up inthe good old gung ho look what we can do american way

Barry, Chesham, uk

Lighten up, please. Would you not want potentially classified information falling into others' hands? Place yourself in the position of the U.S. Put aside all bias for or against them: You would have done the very same, regardless.

It should also be of no concern to any of us should the U.S. decide to utilize their system. As previous comments stated, this is no new technology.

None of us are perfect, regardless of nationality, and if the leaders of any of the leading nations deem it necessary to make an imprudent decision: so be it.

Let us move on.

William, Dublin, Ireland

I would not want china or russa to get our technology in there hands especially that both countries are uneasy of us americans. The military knew darn well they could do it with success, it was to show them that the we have strenth and we can use it. A warning that we can shoot down any missle thrown at us. To have peace you have to be strong. We are a strong nation, so what is wrong with showing it. I believe we did the right thing, And maybe there would have been dangerous gases that would have fallen. Either way, We did it for several reasons. Dangerous gases, fatality, Technology, and darn right we can do it russia and china, so now what

Ben, Yankton, SD

2 Baz, Chicago, USA

first thank you for your remarks. But do you really believe madness will be over when next president takes office? Political establishment doesn't change in a moment, and corporations your mentioned below will still hold the power.
And i find it interesting and paradoxical - while the most of the Americans are care about people around, even if they foreigners, the US administration heads the list of world's most chauvinistic, egocentric and hipocritical governments.

Alex, Moscow, Russia

I think soon we should say goodbye to Satellite TV!

Kiumars, London, Israel

Waaah, Waaaaah, Waaaaaaah. Grow up people. I do not remember anyone purchasing realestate in space. Or has the Russians claimed that it is part of their continental landmass like the artic?

Shawn , Lex, US

If this satellite was destroyed in the manner stated, we now have a vast expanding field of metal debris and shards floating about in uncontrolled orbit which will sooner or later cause problems with other satellites and maybe even space shuttles.
This unsophisticated technology is not the way to remove unwanted space junk.
It is just clearly an international demonstration of "look how strong we are". It is also a clear demonstration of "look how dumb we are".

Andrew, Yorkshire, UK

Everyone here seems to have forgotten a couple of things. Firstly if the U.S wanted to shoot down satellites they already have a system. The U.S developed an anti-satellite missile in 1985. It was fired from an F-15 fighter in a vertical climb and destroyed a defunct weather satellite; but the Pentagon never commisioned the system. Secondly the SM-3 missile has been in development since 2002 and has had several successes against simulated missile targets. I find it strange that the U.S Navy would develop an anti-satellite role for this missile in secret whilst being quite open about it's anti-missile role. Lastly the SM-3 only has an altitude range of 310 miles. Most military satellites orbit at a far greater height which means it would be ineffective in the role that most peole here believe it was intended for. This satellite was destroyed to stop U.S tech falling into enemy hands. Simple as that, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

Alex, York., UK

Iâ€™m part of the 70 percent of Americans who are disgusted and embarrassed by the current administration. I cringe reading the comments here, especially the ones about the USA not caring about anyone but themselves. The vast majority of us truly do care, especially when it comes to Europe. This madness will be over in less than a year when we have a president that is not in bed with corporations and can put a sentence together.

Having said all that, I do not apologize for the US doing everything it can to maintain a dominant military advantage, if thatâ€™s what this was. Would you rather it be China? Not that you canâ€™t take care of yourselves, but if things went bad, rest assured Americans would give their lives to defend you.

Baz, Chicago, USA

As an American, I can honestly say that I am happy that the mission was a success.

Do the people of the world honestly believe that we will sit back and allow those countries that regard us as enemy to get the upper hand in all things military. If that were to happen then the USA would eventually fall.

I wonder who the rest of the world would call on to bail them out of natural disasters, famine and war if America no longer existed?

Liz, Houston, Texas, U.S.A.

Did we not complain when the Chinese tested? Just wondering if we might be the chicken or the egg in the race to be less hypocritical than the other?

Ed, London,

Pretty rich of the Chinese crying foul when they did something similar last year to one of their own satellites.

Mike Stubbs, Larne, N/Ireland

Why is everyone blaming the US government in this simple matter? A Satellite with sensitive information and dangerous fuel was heading for the planet. WHy would we not shoot it down in a responsible manner? We didn't shoot a satellite just to "flex our power" but to prevent a possible problem.

Jon, VA, USA

is John Karpisack a pseudonym of George W? You have got to be joking. I suppose you still believe that Saddam Hussein had WMD that could be deployed in 40minutes.

I would check my water tank if I were you, think someone may have slipped some naivety serum in there.

Gordon, London,

Don, USS Lake Erie (the ship that fired the missile) is a cruiser, and is only submersible if it is having a really bad day and is sunk.

G, London,

Personally I don't much care of the international furore..... of course if one of these guys shoots down another ones satellite then that might really be an issue.

Whats amazing is that they can fire a missile from a submarine and hit something a couple of miles away travelling at 17,000 miles an hour...... if China can do it, then russia can do it, and so the USA can also do it.... it probably makes ICBM's obsolete..... I just wonder if in light of that the UK might not be better off buying some of these missiles as a shield rather than buying strike nuclear weapons ? Maybe we have them already.

abharrisson, london,

The satellite would have burned up in the atmosphere anyway. There was slim to no chance that any significant material would have hit the ground or caused any harm. The safety and security claims are therefore entirely spurious.

John, London,

America will happily bomb Iraq with no remorse.... despite the innocent who are murdered daily. Yet, they want us to believe they shot down a satellite because of toxic fuels.

I don't believe for one second they had public safety on their mind, instead selfish needs of preventing competition getting hold of top secret remainders.

Jamie Kaufman, London,

So, the US 'think' they have hit the 'tank' of the missile! Consdering all their talk of 'colatteral' damage, in which they cannot even hit the 'right' targets on the ground, what a joke that is that they precisely 'managed' to hit the tank so far up in the atmosphere.

Arvin, London, GB

Since when does the USA care about our health???

Just a bunch of liars these dictators in the making.

laurent, london, uk

I'm certainly no fan of the US achieving absolute hegemony in space weapons (which is an issue) but come on... we the general public knew weeks ago that this particular satellite problem existed and, almost to the minute, when a missile would be used to shoot it down. No surprises or cause for alarm. The threat of actual harm occuring from the satellite's fall to earth was very remote, but you can imagine the global response if a tragedy had occurred and it was known the US had failed to take preemptive action. Same with China. End of.

Dan Alderson, London,

Its riduclous to even waste energy on having a dipomatic row over this. China, Russian and the USA could blow the world up 10 times over so any developments of weapons of the future would not make any difference as such. It is tiring to read and hear the news of the bullying tactics of world powers whoever it is. Listen Mr Russian, China, USA and whoever, we have one world, it is a planet orbiting a star and it is time you stopped flexing your muscles all of you and realised that you as well as all of us need to make changes to make this world a better and safe place.
Where is the compassion world leaders?

Mr Walmsley, Manchester, England

If the US did nothing about the Satellite.... and god forbid something happened, how would the US look at that point? This was the safer action plan. I am glad I live in a country that has the ability to stand up and take action when others will just wag fingers.

Julian, Boston, USA/Ma

I'm sorry, but I seem to be the only Russian who read the article. We we foloowing thee news closely, 'cause it is quite frightening when the Army people say, Oh, we just don't really know where it can fall! In the news programs no one ever said about new weapons to be tested. There were simple facts, that the US were going to destroy their sattelit, and that's it. I'm growing a bit tired of The Times' attitude towards Russia. Come on , be serious, stop being funny. We are people here, not "hypocritical" monsters!

Olga, Ufa,

There will be two camps, the large camp: uneducated masses who choose to believe the human-health story, unaware of the scientific contradictions. Then there will be the minority, educated people on spacecraft systems who knows full well what's going on. There's no reason for Russia or China to be on the first side, but every reason for average Americans. Pentagon knows it won't fool anyone with this test, the whole human health story was conceived solely for domestic purposes.

In case you don't understand why it has nothing to do with human health? A) thousands of spy satellite with equal amount of dangerous chemicals have reentered atmosphere in the past decades, B) assuming the fuel tank is enclosed in armor, even then chance of it hitting populated area is lower than you getting hit by lightning and C) the chance of someone standing still after being informed of the collision 30 minutes beforehand is, I'm afraid, impossible, and that's assuming the B) was satellite.

iewgnem, toronto, canada

I would like to see proof that this satellite was actually destroyed by said missile. This all sounds too much like the SDI (which turned out to be a figment of the Reagan administrations collective imagination) sabre rattling of 20 years ago, rehashed for the 21st century in order to counteract Mr Putins own sabre rattling over missiles to be based in the Czech republic. Cold War Games- here we come!!!

Patrick, The Hague, Netherlands

So, US prevented a dangerous situation. Caused by US. Should we applaude? No. Hope that Russia and China will find the way to stop the "free" world "works" US way.

Dejan T., Belgrade, Serbia

Americans have not correctly made. It was necessary to Russian to bring down their satellite. Then everyone were happy. I am sorry for my English.

Alex, Astrahan, Russia

It will be amusing to see if the Russians try to launch a similar test (if they can find anyone sober enough to do it) judging by the age of the long range bombers they embarrassingly send on patrol over the North Sea I should imagine they will be sending up something akin to sputnik controlled by a Spectrum ZX81 computer!

Neil, London, UK

Steve of London,

Glad to know that people in "free" countries know what hypocrisy means. Perhaps your jibe should be directed at your own government as well.

A. Khan, Madrid,

Maybe it's nothing terrible to destroy this satellite either it was act of protecting of humans and environment or antimissile test. What is really matter as i think, is persistent US efforts toward to undermine world's collective security system - disregarding opinions of other countries and even UN's resolutions, sabre-rattling as opportunity arises, impudent interference in not sovereign coutries' internal policies. If this antisatellite action is along with that trend, well then US just sowing seeds of future problems for themselves (as well as for other world, but their don't care)
Stop play with fire guys, there are plenty of cheaper and more effective methods to solve problems in the world.

Alex, Moscow, Russia

We were well within our rights on this one! If that satelite contained hydrazadine, that could be toxic to man and the satelite was headed towards earth....The way I see it... the world should be thanking us on this one as opposed to criticizing us....besides there may have been intelligance on board that could have leaked out if it hit in another part of the world. Russia and China need to focus on their own affairs in this instance.

Jeff Dallas, Texas USA

Jeff, Dallas, TX

For US sabre-rattling is bred in the bone. Consequences are going at second place.

Alex, Moscow, Russia

The Chinese destruction of a defunct weather satellite created thousands of debris that will be in orbit for many years compared to the destruction of the US spy satellite where most of the debris will burn up within a month. So if the US were testing a new weapon, they were still doing it a lot more responsibly than they Chinese.

James Cornish, Lancaster,

Does anyone remember Skylab? The hysteria that surrounded that incident? The large pieces that landed in Australia? A lot of critics have been harping about the cost and the motives for shooting the thing down, and how unlikely it is to hit anywhere populated. Well, if we did nothing and let it come down on It's own and it did indeed land in a crowded spot-- We would NEVER HEAR THE END OF IT! No worries now, It's blown into tiny bits which will all harmlessly burn up within weeks.

Andrew Repa, St Charles, Illinois

I spy with my little eye a satelite in the sky! OPPS!!!!!!

Dain, Paris, France.

Steve of London

You have the issue turned on its head, dear boy.

The space arms race was started by the US, with their " Star Wars" programme.

The problem with you Anglo Saxon protestants is that you can't hack it when you get a taste of your own bloody medicine.

You can be sure that there's more Chinese and Russian hypocrisy coming your way.

Hung, Kuala Lumpur,

Even a fool know this is not to shoot down the satellite for the sake of prevent toxic gas hurting people. whether the USA test new weapon or not, the Chinese will continue to refine their weapon in secret. But now they have another excuse to continue to test and improve their anti satellite weapon or space weapon if they have the capability. The USA wants to show off their capability to the Chinese they can do what the Chinese has done one year ago. Although this time the satellite is much closer to earth and is easier to aim and shoot down. Now each super power should develop space weapon systems in order to protect their own country. UK should catch up as well.

George, Perth, Australia

Don, I am pretty sure we complained when the Chinese did theirs.....so who is 'doing' and who is 'saying'? Or are you from the ' we right, you wrong' brigade?

Ed, London,

Glad to see my tax money being used to prevent what could have been a dangerous situation (to the US or anyone else) if the satellite had reentered in one piece.

We'll see how complete the effort was by the lack of debris on the ground, but we won't know that until after a few days.

John Karpiscak, Fredericksburg, USA/ Virgina

The commentors on the BBC said this was an extremely impressive test on several counts, because the satellite was travelling very fast, was a 'cold' target which is difficult to spot, and because of adverse weather conditions in the area of the Pacific where the submarine was deployed. An ICBM would be a very hot target by comparison.

The Chinese protest was amusing given their own previous test. 'Do as I say, not as I do' it would seem....

Don S, Ipswich, UK

The Chinese fired their missile, so the US Navy tinkers with its toys to show it can do the same. Watch this space for a response from Putin. If tests continue adding all this extra debris in orbit you'd better learn to map read again and communicate by semaphore, as satellites will be inadvertently knocked out by all the bits left after the tests. The US military is already training to fight while "satellite blind". A future conflict that is fought partly in space will affect us all for decades.

G, London,

did anyone read this article before it was put online? it's littered with typos and bad grammar. come on times of london, get it together.

zack, france,

...China and Russia which accused it of covertly test out a new weapon.

what is wrong with this sentence?

Matei Clej, Bucharest, Romania

The Chinese and the Russians really take the biscuit when it comes to hypocrisy.

Nigel MacDonald, Camborne, UK

Excuse my innocence, but it there something wrong with destroying a satellite that carries classified components to prevent the possibility of it falling into enemy hands? Or even testing a weapon system in the process? So what?

As for China, it's OK for them to test their anti-satellite weapons, but no-one else can? Get a grip. You're not dealing with your own abused and misled masses here guys. If it's good enough for you then it's good enough for anyone else and you know that - don't try to be holier than thou when you've just done the self-same thing, but without the laudable reason of preventing a health hazard.

We in free countries call that hypocrisy, in case you haven't heard.

Steve, London, UK

The US has justified this missile strike by claiming it had informed the public of its plans - but I wasn't told.

There is little doubt in my mind this project had an ulterior motive and, if I'm becoming a little paranoid, imagine what the US's international rivals must be thinking.

SJS, London, UK