Jeremy Griffin and Nico Hines
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Countdown:
42-33:
the worst ten presidents
32-22:
the let-downs
21-11:
the nearly-greats
10-1:
the greatest presidents
And so we begin. With the world's most important general election now only a
week away, and the potential for a result with seismic political
ramifications, The Times presents the biggest presidential debate of
them all. Namely: who's the greatest?
Eight of our top international and political commentators sucked the ink from
their pens as they anguished over the task at hand - to rank, in reverse
order, all 42* presidents of the United States.
We asked our panel to rank the presidents in order of greatness. The Collins
English Dictionary definition of great reads thus: relatively large in
size or extent; relatively large in number; having many parts or members; of
relatively long duration; of larger size or more importance than others of
its kind; extreme or more than usual; of significant importance of
consequence; of exceptional talents or achievements; remarkable; doing or
exemplifying something on a large scale; arising from or possessing idealism
in thought, action etc; heroic; illustrious or eminent; impressive or
striking; active or enthusiastic; skilful or adroit; excellent, fantastic.
Phew . . . that's a tall order to meet, even if you win two terms in office. So when our experts came to consider the merits of the 42 men to have held office, they had to look at a multitude of achievements - some of them short-term, others which have changed the course of history.
Gerard Baker, US Editor, writes: "Trying to rank 42 of anything is difficult. Imagine if someone gave you 42 universally acclaimed music albums and then asked you to put them in order of quality.
"It’s especially tricky because, I would argue, like most people, the 42 American presidents fall into a well-established, Bell-curve or normal distribution on a chart – a handful of outstanding ones, a handful of duds, and a lot of so-sos.
"I couldn’t, in all honesty therefore, really say that number 13 on the list is that much better than number 30."
Tom Baldwin, our Washington Bureau chief, agrees: "This is subjective and clouded by our own historical perspective. I found it hard to place high up on the list slave owners and those who sanctoned the slaughter of Native Americans. Nor do I much like those who reduced America to civil war or appeased the South afterwards.
"Reagan gets lower marks than others might give him because his economic philosophy can be blamed for much of the world's troubles now. Clinton is higher than he might have been because he cleared federal deficits, partly through Congressional stalemate. Lyndon Johnson deserves more credit for civil rights than Kennedy."
Richard Beeston, The Times Foreign Editor, writes: "America has already selected many of its most impressive leaders as Mount Rushmore, the Washington monuments and the faces staring out of dollar bills reveal. The easiest part is choosing the top 10. The hardest is weighing up the qualities of men like John F Kennedy - glamorous, eloquent and popular but who was assassinated before he had the chance for history to judge his legacy fairly - against leaders from another age in America’s short but frenetic history."
As if to prove how huge a task this was, Daniel Finkelstein, the Times chief leader writer, pooled resources with his colleague Oliver Kamm while deliberating "to ensure that we knew enough about all the Presidents to deliver a judgment on each".
But did they get it right? Or is there even a right answer? Have your say as we count down the rankings today and for the rest of the week, beginning today with the bottom ten - numbers 42 to 33 - and continuing tomorrow, Thursday and Friday.
* One for the anoraks: Grover Cleveland is both the 22nd and 24th president, having won a return to office four years after losing the seal.
The panel
Chris Ayres, Los Angeles correspondent
Gerard Baker, US Editor
Tom Baldwin, Washington Bureau chief
Richard Beeston, foreign editor
Camilla Cavendish, columnist
Daniel Finkelstein, chief leader writer
Ben Macintyre, writer at large
Bronwen Maddox, chief foreign commentator
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Well said Girard, as an educator, those were my thoughts exactly.
Becky, Saylorsburg, USA
No American historians, No professors, Not even an American History teacher on the panel of judges. What are the credentials of the judges? What do writers/editors know about American history?
Note: Some historical "facts" stated are skewed
Girard, Tulsa OK, US
This is a crazy idea. The current politics always color the results. I think the history will judge George W Bush harshly and probably will, but none of us has the perspective that 100 years would bring.
Alan Newell, Antioch, USA
You all are intelligent (and mostly men--interesting) , so you really should know better that to include any president past about # 36 . I guarantee you that your views of the last 4 or 5 will look rather different in twenty years when history rolls on.
Gordon Sterling, Spring, USA
Abraham Lincoln was by far the best President this country has ever had, in my opinion. Lincoln is followed by F.D.R. and George Washington.
Likewise, the worst President we've ever had was Bill Clinton. Just behind Clinton is George W. Bush and Herbert Hoover.
John, New York City, United States
Jackson was the worst. #42. Bush is terrible but at least he isn't responsible for massive genocide due to simple racism, nor did he create the spoils system, though he does have the worst administration. Washington was the best.
avi, toronto, canada
Reagan's prosperity lasted throughout the 80's, & 90's. Clinton's Government enforcement of handing out subprime loans to people who couldn't pay them (a form of socialism) caused our system to collapse. Every bad policy over the last 30 years exploded on Bush 43's watch. You can't really blame him.
Rob Case, Lockport, USA
My top presidents:
1 - Washington
2 - FDR
3 - Lincoln
4 - Wilson
5 - Jefferson
6 - LBJ
7 - TR
8 - Madison
9 - Truman
10 - Monroe
Don't forget Madison's leading the young country through the War of 1812, nor how much Johnson's civil rights and medicare advances are still with us today.
Bob, San Francisco, USA
I predict the following top 10
10. Wilson
9. Polk
8. Eisenhower
7. Truman
6. Reagan
5. Theodore Roosevelt
4. Jefferson
3. FDR
2. Lincoln
1. Washington
Bearing in mind that with only one exception that's the top ten in ranking order from the 2005 Wall Street Journal Poll.
Jon, Pembroke Dock, UK
I am surprised to not see any historians on the panel...so instead of actually casting some informed information into the debate we will be given over to political emotion...and a fawning for either liberals or conservative agendas...too bad...
Tony, Colorado Springs,
FDR certainly gets credit for facing up to the Nazis, but many would argue his domestic policies extended the Depression. The New Deal did not end it - WWII did.
Top 3 - Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson
Chris, Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Ian Bannen, George Washington's will actually called for the release of all his slaves. Actually I think he was the greatest president we ever had. We could have had a king, but he didn't want it that way. He set the standard for having a two term presidency. Also, traitor? To whom, to the Brits?
Cassie , Tucson, AZ, USA
Feel free to pile up on me here, but in fifty years time, when Iraqi wounds have healed, when they are still able to choose their leaders, change their laws, form political parties and speak freely against the government, the now despised Bush will be remembered by Iraqis as the guy who gave it them
Michael Mcknight, Tampa, USA/FL
"Reagan gets lower marks than others might give him because his economic philosophy can be blamed for much of the world's troubles now. "
Blatantly false. Reagan's philosophy was limited government. "Progressive" government policies created the market distortions that are responsible for this.
Chris, Memphis, TN, USA
I don not know exactly about the history of the USA, however, i think A.Lincon adimired everybody's respect
Yi Wang, Harbin, China
George,Stillwater. where exactly is that' Western style democracy to a homeland of Islam'? Neither Afghanistan or Iraq apply. After 8 arrogant yrs in the white house, 2 failed wars,woeful economy,loss of respect & standing in the world,Its the USA that is no longer recognisable,but keep dreaming.
Heath, surrey, England
It is a hard question, and probably impossible if any presidents of the last 20 years are included, the memories are too partisan. But shouldn't the worse be George Washington? He was a traitor who plunged North America into years of war, not to mention a slave owner.
Ian Bannen, Oxford, UK
To Jon, Austin, Texas:
Is there a qualification in list making that historians have but journalists don't?
Is it an academic qualification that I haven't heard of?
Dan, London,
Fifty years from now the world will have radical Islam under control. We will then realise that Bush was the FIRST president to understand that US troops needed to go to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq to neutralise radicalism directly and this move has saved us all. Bush will then be elected the best.
Shambhunath, Brighton, United Kingdom
Wait! The consequences of Bushie's reign are not all in yet. He might just make it to the top of the infamous gallery. He might even turn out to be worse than Carter, the peanut farmer.
Eugene, heidelberg, germany
I notice the panel is made up of journalists. How are they qualified to make a list? The panel should be composed of historians. Furthermore, at least 20 years should pass before a president is ranked. That would leave out the four presidents who followed Carter.
jon, Austin, Texas, USA
Barack Obama is the greatest President ever.. he has disappointed no-one and upset nobody (except perhaps a few neo-nazi's). He marks a maturing of the body politic, away from glib easy solutions to proper civic responsibility.
Ron, London, UK
JFK was the worst. The Bay of Pigs came first. Then he sent US troops to Vietnam and started US foreign internventionist policy -alive and well today in Iraq.
As for the best, Europeans should not forget Truman whose friend George Marshall saved the continent from itself, the weather and Stalin.
rodrigo, Johannesburg,
If Bush ranks so low: How many presidents have taken Western style democracy to a homeland of Islam, & changed the status quo of the Middle East so it no longer is recognizable?
The housing bubbjle which led to markets collapsing was not of his doing.
Your panel should go back to school!
George, Stillwater , Oklahoma
"Right now, Carter would be the top vote getter for the worst, especially being a one term disaster. (been to Iran?)"
You're blaming Carter for Iran? I'd lay that at the feet of Eisenhower and the Dulles Brothers, who decided to throw in with the Brits and overthrow Mossadegh.
Violet, Houston, USA
Ranking Bush among the worst demonstrates a collective ignorance of history that can only be described as sadly amusing.
BillW, Chicago, USA
The US has not been attacked since 9/11. Who has been President since then? Carter with 22% interest, he trie d to fire his Cabinet and they told him to pound sand. No one will ever beat Jimmy out being the worst President, nor anyone will be Wison as the worst PM.
J. H. Scarboro, Waynesville Ohio, USA
1. FDR: Pulling the US out of depression, helping save the world from Nazism+laid grounds for US to become the dominant power of the world.
2. Abraham Lincoln: Uniting the Country, leadership, a great orator.
3. George Washington: Led the American forces to victory over GB+drafted the constition.
Niall Orr, Sydney, Australia
Set aside the obvious Lincoln, Jefferson Washington. Two of the best are Teddy (been to yelowstone?) and FDR. The worst, Bush may get there but too early to say. Right now, Carter would be the top vote getter for the worst, especially being a one term disaster. (been to Iran?)
Dan, Boise, Idaho , USA
1. FDR: Pulling the US out of depression, helping save the world from Nazism+J, laid grounds for US to become the dominant power of the world
2. A Lincoln: Uniting the Country, leadership, a great orator.
3. G Washington: Led the American forces to victory over GB+chief drafter of the constitution
Niall Orr, Sydney, Australia
In recent times Nixon Eisenhower and Clinton
PATRICK RIORDAN, Swansea, UK
It's a bit early to judge this, isn't it? See us in 20 years. Until then, go away.
Gregory Baker, Odenton, Maryland, USA
The worst ever? G Bush jnr(how appropiate is that tag?) He has destabalized the US and the western world. After 9/11 the sympathies of 99% of the worlds population were centred on America. Instead of capitalizing on that, the fool embarked on a war with Iraq, instantly destroying all goodwill.
fay howard, sheffield, england
Surely the greatness of a president is measured against the magnitude of the challenges faced both personal and political and their relative success. For me it has to be FDR. He faced up to the depression creating the New Deal, He led the USA through WW2 and did much of this from a wheel chair.
Joe Liggett, Ipswich, UK
@ Jay,Brick NJ.
Waky,waky!!Now have a shower,take breakfast and confront reality;and,if you can afford it,travel around the world for a while,if not ,buy a good book and QUIT watching AMERICAN TV.Seriuously,is killing you.
albert, Carballo, Spain
Wait a minute here. From the perspective of respect, moral, social, economic, legal, war, standing with respect to other nations, etc. Bush is by far the worst ever. Even worse than Grant.
Al, San Francisco, US
The total dead in the war between the states makes even W's mismanagement petty.
Even though we would love to see him dead last, it makes sense
Grant, san francsico , USA
10 worst prez? I hardly think President Bush deserves to be in this listing. The ruling party has been the DEMS -they are the ones holding up legislation, or investigating so called enemies of their "progressive" agendas, skimming $$ & power from their committees! ex: Barney Frank go to JAIL!
amy, sutton, USA
I agree with their choice of Buchanan as the worst. As horrible as George W. Bush is at least he didn't send the country collapsing into Civil War. LOL that should be George's famous last words when he leaves office too. "I sucked but at least I didn't have a civil war"
Tony, Chicago, USA
Inferior!!?? I don't know how you figured that John from the US. How can you possibly think of your country as inferior. As opposed to what, El Dorado, Garden of Eden, what? America is the greatest country on the face of the earth. Why? Because of her people and their Ideals.
Jay, Brick NJ, USA
Lets hope Obama can rectify at least some of Bush's policies,but it will take longer than 4/8 years.
B. Parker, Wolverhampton, UK
How can there possibly have been a worse President than GW Bush? I don´t recall any of them before Reagan, but I refuse to believe that a single one of them has caused such damage.
Adrian James, London,
Fifth worst ? George W, they continue to under estimate you.
You should be at the top of the list. Not, mind you, that this is anything against George himself, he just wound up in a job that he was entirely unsuited to, but the rest of the world will be picking up the peices for years.
Alas.
Jim, Los Angeles, USA
I appreciate our cousin's help and time to remind us Americans of our inferiority.
John, Lafayette, US
"Reagan gets lower marks than others might give him because his economic philosophy can be blamed for much of the world's troubles now."
Oh dear ! This is 2008. Ronnie left in 1988.
By that token JFK must be held responsible for a chunk of the 1980s.
Subjectivity is no excuse for idiocy.
Rob, Cambridge, England
There are 42 answers to that question, and all of them are spelled George W. Bush. I wasn't alive during Herbert Hoover, but I understand from those who were that he is in the running. So make it 30 George W. Bush and 12 Hoover, just to acknowledge his beastliness for those who were alive then.
Laura Harrison McBride, New Windsor, Maryland, USA