The problem with the England side is not Lampard and Gerrard playing together it is the enitre team!

When was the last time Rooney performed for England and made you say wow about his performance?

Look through our first 11, did any of them play to their full potential last season?

Russell, Fleet,

If he's so good, where are the bids from Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus et al. that were supposed to be imminent during the summer? For a player that was supposedly available for under £15 million, the silence from Europe's top clubs was pretty deafening. Lampard's a good player, no more, no less who would struggle to adapt to Spain or Italy where the ability to control the tempo of a game is the main requirement for a central midfielder (witness Pirlo, Xavi, Nedved). Lampard doesn't have the ability for this type of game. Lampard's 20 goals a season are vital but in his absence, a fit Michael Ballack playing in his correct position may notch one or two...

Cathal, Tipperary, Ireland

Gerrard has always done his own dirty work Andy, in fact in recent seasons he has done his own work as attacking midfielder and more often not done the work for the rest of the team as well. He always tackles back, breaks up play, in fact everything that Makelele does and that Lampard doesn't.

Mark, London,

Totally agree with you Victor. He's not a patch on Johnny Dexter is he?

Adam Clarke, London,

"Plus Lampard has Essien and Makelele behind him doing all his dirty work, as Lampard spends most of the game in the opposition penalty area"

because naturally, Gerrard doesn't have Mascherano, Alonso, Sissoko and previously Hamman there to do his dirty work...

Andy, Clapham,

If I played alongside Michael Essien and Claude Makalele I'd be free to run into the penalty box every five minutes too.

Without them for England he is found out.

To even suggest he is anywhere near Gerrard is ridiculous. Gerrard has run Liverpool for years and will carry on doing so - Lampard is the perfect symbol of the modern footballer...over paid, arrogant and an ego the size of Jersey. All he runs is Frank Lampard inc.

Like most of England's "Golden Generation" he believed his own hype but worse than that. he turned on the fans.

And just for the record, I support Arsenal.

J. Wilkes, Gloucester,

He's little more than a fat David Platt.

Victor Boskovic, Danefield,

Jake from Welling and Russell from Fleet, you're either both 14 years-old, have no knowledge of football whatsoever or are bitter Chelsea fans (or more likely all three). Every rational Chelsea fan I know knows that Gerrard is a far superior player to Lampard. In fact, everyone within the game and everyone with any knowledge of the game knows this. If you base your posts on the Opta Index then Alexsandr Hleb would have been in the top 10 players last season. You base who's the better player on who has the best technique, the best engine, the greater influence on the game / teammates, who does it in the big games, passing ability, all of which Gerrard is by far superior to Lampard. Take of your blue-tinted spectacles boys, Liverpool supporters don't try and claim that Crouch is a better player than Drogba, and the difference is similar.

Mark, London,

Lampard is no more than an average player playing in a good team. His vision is poor, and his touch and technique are sluggish at best.

As for his goal scoring record, which everybody goes on about, the only reason he scores so many goals is that he takes every penalty, every free kick, and every time he gets within 30 yards he shoots. Other midfielders don't score as many goals because they actually pass the ball to players better positioned. Plus Lampard has Essien and Makelele behind him doing all his dirty work, as Lampard spends most of the game in the opposition penalty area.

Lampard's scoring rate for West Ham, and England was/is very poor, because for West Ham and England he doesn't have Essien and Makelele behind him, doing his defending for him.

Lampard is got to be the most overrated player in the Premier League. He should be dropped from the England team, with Gerrard and Hargreaves in midfield.

Jamie, Oxford, Britain

It's unsurprising that the average football fan cannot grasp what makes Lampard so vital to Chelsea. His immense talent is not one which catches the eye, unlike Gerrard (whose England form has been only slightly less lamentable), because it is not a natural talent, rather one born from a neccessity and determination to survive and push himself to the highest level, learning from the greatest players to walk through Chelsea's doors and build on the meagre talents he had to start with (witness his unexceptional West Ham days). His flawless positional sense, movement, determination keep Chelsea ticking and echo the best of Makelele and Petit. His powerful shooting is pure Hasselbaink, his range of passing carries a hint of the great Zola and the best of Verón, his tactical nous and late breaks into the box recall Gudjohnsen and Poyet. He works selflessly for the team (especially in recent years) and has been the most potent and creative players in English football in the last five years.

Xander Beauregard, London,

Oh come on Martin, I know its your job to be an advocate for discussion, but your argument is flawed at best. Lampard is no where near the player many have thought in seasons past and is now being found out, his preformance on Sunday against a poor Brimingham side was appaling, poor touch, passing and shooting - if Mclaren had any gumption he would drop him in favour of Hargreaves and let Gerrard play his natural game.
Let him contiune to play for England though, it gives the rest of us a good laugh.

Jamie Artt, Belfast,

It is generally difficult to rate individual players. One has to take into account a number of interacting, non-exlusive factors. I find it difficult to comprehend why direct comparisons are always made to the total number of goals a player scores in a season (unless players are given same time on the pitch with the same opportunities. It would be a better reflection of talent based upon their strike rate per unit time spent on the pitch or attempts on goal. Although this too would be subject to the tactics that are installed onto the pitch. Having said that I think Lampards influence on the international scene is poor owing to his goal ratio

YMW, London,

The problem remains with Lampard, I doubt that he can move to a better top team. Lampard gets goals and has come a long way from west ham. But he lacks, the Midas touch of players such as Xavi, Deco and Pirlo to play in big team abroad

Ted Menmuir, London,

Martin, you think that you are very funny calling Lampards goals "deflections" in a sarcastic manner, imitating his critics. Well most of his goals were the scrappiest deflections possible. He scored some good free kicks but he was also taking the penalties (hopefully never again in an England shirt) He is not a great, barely a good and he can not score a penalty. Gerrard is better, I do not care about your distorted statistics and the way you have manipulated them. I like the way you dressed it up "20 goals in an English season" but that does not mean league it means all competitions, which considering how far Chelsea go in these cups is not so great at all and so please, just stop it.

Will Kerr, Cobham, Surrey

At last a journalist who can see Frank Lampard for what he is and what he brings to a side.

If you look at all the Opta stats Lampard more often than not out performs Gerrard yet England fans, the majority of whom have their opininions formed for them by the media, continue to argue that Lampard and Gerrard can't play together and that Lampard should make way.

Well, the answer to that is that Mourinho tried to buy Gerrard to play alongside Lampard so, with a decent manager they obviously can. And if the England manager can't find a way of playing them together then he should drop Gerrard in favour of Frank Lampard who brings much more to a team and is not prone to a two footed lunge or swinging a punch at an opponent when things aren't going his way

Jakey, Welling, Kent, England

As a Chelsea fan the Lampard debate is one that I'm used too. Lampard over the past four years has been Mr Consistency for Chelsea scoring a number of very important goals, however...
This will be his last year playing for us, this year there is going to be a huge push for the Champions League, if we get it then Lampard will leave Chelsea recognised as a great, if we fail then Lampard will leave (with Mourinho) still recognised as a great player but not a great.
I think there is going to be a lot of upheaval at Chelsea after this year when youth will take over from experience and Chelsea look to build a new team. Don't be supprised to see Carvalho go to a club in spain to be replaced in the squad by young Michael Mancienne, Makalele will leave to be replaced by Obi Mikel as the definate number one player in the holding role. Abramovich running out of money and interest isn't the reason Chelsea hasn’t spent much this summer; the simple reason is that it is being saved for next year.

David J Sherwood, Upminster, Essex

Isn't he their penaly taker also? I'd be interested to know how many of his goals have come from the spot.
Lampards a phenomenon in many respects, but he is fat-looking and apart from his goals he doesn't do that much.

Craig, London, UK

Quite right, with regards Phil Gartside. It really is very disappointing to see him making such disparaging comments about his former manager. Someone who kept Bolton afloat in the EPL , with astute loan signings, before they began to prosper. Without wishing ill upon Sammy Lee, Bolton deserve to drop back into the Championship from whence they came. Sorry. It probably had a different name in those days.

Peter Koeb, Geneva, Switzerland

Not the best timing for the writing of the pro-Lampard article. (Wasn't there a complete team out there yesterday toiling for Chelsea?) Both yesterday and in the Community Shield matche Lampard was .......Frankly Anonymous. If Frankly Anonymous were less so, England supporters would surely take him to their hearts, rather than wanting to tear him apart.

Tintagel, East Pennant, Nova Scotia, Canada

The problem remains with Lampard, I doubt that he can move to a better top team. Lampard gets goals and has come a long way from west ham. But he lacks, the Midas touch of players such as Xavi, Deco and Pirlo to play in big team abroad

Ted Menmuir, London,

He isnt scoring goals for national team doesnt mean he should be thrown out. Agreed he might not be aesthetically pleasant as that of Ronaldo/Gerrard. But when he is in the top gear he can destroy any team. Any team, any defense. He has consistency levels unmatched by any midfielder in the league. He has best fitness levels. He is never a nonsense tackler. When compared to stevie, he isnt defensively as good as latter. But he is better in taking positions as well as going forward.

If both Lamps and Essien can play successfully in same midfield then why cant Lamps and Gerrard play in same midfield. Gerrard and Essien are similar mold players. All action box to box. Coach needs to find the system to accommodate both these top class midfielder.

And top coaches like Mourinho, Rijkaard, Ancelotti etc can anyday would love to see Lamps in their team. They arent stupid to vie for this guy. England needs some scapegoat every time they ill perform. Unfortunately its Lamps turn.

Adam, Asia,

I completely agree with your take on Lamps. He is sort of the brother of the prodical son, the one that is always there and whose contributions blend in to the woodwork when the injury prone teammates come back and therefore are greated with huge fanfare.

Besides goals, the kid gives you a whole lot of assists. He really is a fantastic all-around player.

TammyV, Los Angeles, CA USA

Isn't he their penalty taker also? I'd be interested to know how many of his goals have come from the spot.
Lampards a phenomenon in many respects, but he is fat-looking and apart from his goals he doesn't do that much.

Craig, London, UK

Everyone carry's on about Frank Lampard's quality and how he bags 20 goals in a season and has been doing it for the past three or four seasons.
For him to remain at the top of the top flight, in one of the best (if not the best) leagues, is a testiment to his quality and I'm not intending to attack him in any way.
However, I would like to know. Frank Lampard is the 1st choice penalty taker for Chelsea. How many of those 20 goals a season are penalties? Was it him that got the result of a penalty kick to be able to take the glory of it being added to his season total?

Glenn, Sydney, Australia

Contrary to what Matt Nicholson suggests, McClaren continues to pick Lampard despite the fact that the national press (there are notable exceptions) have generally slated the midfielder for the past two years. The fact is that there is currently no-one to compete with Lampard and Gerrard for the more attack-minded midfield role(s).

I find it constantly perplexing that so many non-Chelsea fans continue to question Frank's worth when he statistically outperforms even Gerrard season after season. The usual reply, that 'statistics aren't everything' or 'football is too complex...' are weak arguments designed to support opinion over fact.

People say that Lampard can't repeat his club performances for England because at Chelsea he is surrounded by talent. Surely that says more about the other 10 players in the England team than it does about Lampard.

Neil, Birmingham,

Fear of change from the tried and trusted strangles our national game, not a lack of talent or "bloody foreigners", but fear in trusting new faces or embracing new ideas. But this tried and trusted have failed and let us down, so why the hang ups on culling them? Don't use the 2004 to 2005 Lampard as an argument to his inclusion. And for the record, if Chelsea gave Michael Ballack the freedom Lampard enjoys in the team to run forward in a straight line for 90 mins and shoot every 5 minutes, he would not only score 20+ goals a season, he would also stand up in the big Champions League and Premiership matches. This is something Lampard consistently fails to do, to the point where there are times when you don't even realise he is on the pitch until he hits yet another trademark comedy 40 yard pass to some lucky souvenir hunter in the stands.

Matt Nicolson, New Cross, London, England

I cant speak for all of us, but the reason THIS England supporter shudders every time I see Lampard in an England squad is simple. I had to tolerate 2 World Cups and 1 European Championships having the most overrated and over hyped footballer in the history of the World game limp abysmally around a pitch as the teams "leader" simply because press monkeys like yourself demanded his inclusion. I see this Beckham effect taking hold with Lampard, just because you say it is so Martin does not make it so.

Matt Nicolson, New Cross, London, England

Lampard is a hard running blunderbuss and little more. His game is very one dimensional. Perhaps he needs a spell overseas to learn a thing or two. But then again, perhaps he's a little too old for that. I'd like to see Joe Cole given an extended run in central midfield, for club, and for country. He is technically a better player.

RJA, Nottingham, England, UK.

I remember you claiming he was brilliant against Brazil a few months back, unselfishly holding and sacrificing his game for the good of the team. Unfortunately he is not a holding midfielder. His range of passing includes anyone within a 10 yard radius, any further and he woefully lumps the ball into the stands. Michael Carrick can play the creative holding role in a far more effective way than Lampard while Owen Hargreaves and Scott Parker would fill the more destructive role with far greater effectives than Lampard could ever hope to. Honourable mentions to Kevin Nolan and Joey Barton, victims to the star worshiping succession of jelly fish England coaches. Even Mark Noble would seem a more desirable alternative to Lampard.

Matt Nicolson, New Cross, London, England

The problem remains with Lampard, I doubt that he can move to a better top team. Lampard gets goals and has come a long way from west ham. But he lacks, the Midas touch of players such as Xavi, Deco and Pirlo to play in big team abroad

Ted Menmuir, London,

Martin, you think that you are very funny calling Lampards goals "deflections" in a sarcastic manner, imitating his critics. Well most of his goals were the scrappiest deflections possible. He scored some good free kicks but he was also taking the penalties (hopefully never again in an England shirt) He is not a great, barely a good and he can not score a penalty. Gerrard is better, I do not care about your distorted statistics and the way you have manipulated them. I like the way you dressed it up "20 goals in an English season" but that does not mean league it means all competitions, which considering how far Chelsea go in these cups is not so great at all and so please, just stop it.

Will Kerr, Cobham, Surrey

Thankyou Martin Samuel for giving Frank the credit he deserves. How people can call him over-rated is a joke. If he was French or Brazilian with the performances that he puts in week in and out with the goals and assists then everyone would love him! Year in, year out he is the top performing central midfielder in the country yet Gerrard gets the plaudits for playing poorly out of position in a poor Liverpool side all season. Look at the stats for club and country, Lampard is the more consistent player than Gerrard. He may have dipped performance wise for England but so has everyone else! Did you see Gerrards performance in the last game, giving the ball away nearly every time. Then you have Lampard who scored 6 goals to get us to the World Cup while Gerrard continued to do nothing! Gerrard doesn't score in big games for England and has never performed to his ability either, remember the back pass against France? Does Lampard have to score 30 goals and assist 25 to get the credit?

Russell, Fleet,

He is not good enough. Please stop claiming otherwise. In an ideal world the lazy, cliched and frankly average English press would have no say in who plays for England. Unfortunately we do not live in such a world and Steve McClaren has the backbone of a flan and will continue to pick Lampard as long as the national press call for him to do so. It is the reason he will pick a long time past his average best David Beckham from his LA retirement home instead of David Bentley, Sol Campbell over Michael Dawson or Steven Taylor and Lampard over the guys I have mentioned before.

Matt Nicolson, New Cross, London, England