I tihink I'd wait til the cricket tour is over before I'd write the epitaphs. But your first paragraph, Simon Barnes, just about sums up England's reaction to last night's drubbing of Australia.

And David Ross, although I agree with much of what you say about the english being soft as butter, you have to give it to the uncelebrated Paul Collingwood for showing a spirited grassroots performance. He's been playing in the shadow of media darlings Flintoff, KP and Vaughan, just getting on with it. If they had more with his attitude, the English might have come out of the fire with something more than the cat.

Caro, Sydney, Australia

I can't believe how deluded the English are. Wow you beat and under strength Australian team who is probably sick of playing and thrashing you anyway and then put one good performance together against the Kiwi's. All of a sudden they are the favourites to win the finals. A nation of 20 million people can beat you at almost every sport we play and still you think you are a nation of winners. Lets not even stop with Australia lets go to NZ cause they beat you just as badly with 4 million people. I am amazed at the stupidity and one eyed attitude of english people (and journalists) about their national teams.

Ross Morgan, Brisbane, Australia / Qld

Yeah, that's right.

Fans can be cruel but most of them remain sincere.

And in the beautiful words of the great coach Vince Lombardi

"It's not whether you get knocked down. It's whether you get up".

Arsalan Khan, Karachi, Pakistan

This is hogwash.
England a sporting Nation?
Give is a break!
When did England in its own right - without the support of Scotland, Wales and Ireland - win an international tennis title, an international swimming title, a Winter Olympics gold medal, (even snow-deprived Australia can do that), a Formula 1 GP title, or a major cycling tour title..............?
England's cricket team has displayed sportsmanship and fortitude against the formidibale team of Australian cricketers and English cricket writers. If England is really a sporting nation, perhaps the journalists could be the first to demonstrate this by getting of their backs.

Brian, ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Behold the difference between Enlgish and Australian cricket.
2 matches in a row?
Sheesh.

Peter, Adelaide,

No English player will return with pride? We may have lost most games but theres the little matter of Monty Paneser who has barely put a foot wrong. Bowled well, has taken some catches and even had a go at nightwatchman. He has gone from a new arrival on the edge of the team to surely one of the first names on the team sheet for some time to come.

Chris, London,

Simon Barnes may not wish to believe England are a nation of losers, but the facts tend to suggest otherwise.

Yes, it is true that for any sport and for any nation, you win some and you lose some. The mighty will fall and the lowly will rise, eventually.

But seriously, look at the sporting history of England (or Britain and the rest, in the case of cricket ). The Ashes 2005, Rugby World Cup in 2003 and the Football World Cup in 1966 are highlights, but apart from that ... what?

There was a time when Ashes contests were mostly competitive affairs, with Britain and the rest winning almost their share, but since the late 80's, the cricket team have been a joke. While 2005 made it appeared things may be changing back, 2006/7 provided a much needed dose of reality for English cricket fans.

Other English national teams and representatives continually under achieve. The odd win here and there does not override a long term trend and extensive history of poor sporting performances!

Nathan, Adelaide, South Australia

Simon, lets not loose the run of ourselves, Peter's comments are a little bit over the top. Suffice to say you are not at all bad, but you are no Tom Humphries from the Irish Times.

Ciaran Mulgrew, Belfast,

Is it just me or does this article just sum up why the English are so poor at sport.

After all, performance in sport mirrors general national attitudes. The English have by far and away more financial resources, facilities and player numbers (population) to draw on in may sports - particularly cricket, rugby, rugby league and football. Especially when compared to the likes of Australia, Sth Africa, New Zealand and a whole host of European nations. England should not only be winning - they should be dominating.
Yet you are perennial underachievers.
You scrape by to win the Rugby World Cup against a very average and non-rated Australian side (who's teams have incidentally won the Cup twice and been in most finals & semi finals despite having a tiny rubgy population and it being the number 4 team sport in terms of players). Yes, the English were on form for 2 years but so they should have been. After the cup, everything fell apart and the Lions tour to NZ just typifies a shocking attitude. Why? Were not England boasting about their glorious depth of playing numbers during 03 season - where are they? Yes some players retired but every country experiences that. Aust, NZ and Sth Africa do lose games, but are never humiliated. England are consistantly.

Cricket - again a narrow margin of victory wins the ashes after a decade or more. MBEs all round and lets all be celebrities in a 'nothing celebrity' worshiping country. After that, lets lose as many tests as we can and perform disgracefully in Aust in 06/07.

Lets not talk about your religious football. You worship Beckham - but what has he ever won - zip. No European championships and No world Cups. Why can Greece / Italy win and not England with all that money and hype. Pathetic. Even Australia beat Eng in soccer last time they played ( and by the way, when Aust teams in any code are playing for their country, they dont entertain or understand the concept of " friendly") and by all accounts were a better team in the latest world cup.

Wont go near tennis - Timmy, god bless his posh socks.

At the end of the day England does produce talented sportsmen/women for individual and Olympic team sports ie Redgrave etc, but so do other countries with much smnaller populations. I am sure they are were not aided by their respective sports admin systems however.

At the end of the day, you have a poor climate, a govt that does not support school sport, and a poor diet on average for your children.
Many of your administrators are blazers with no idea and you seem incapable of learning and starting with a clean sheet and wrtiting at the top -this is what we need to win.
Your money is with the clubs (football and rugby) who dont give a damn about national endeavours. The players are pampered, overpaid and believe too much in their club based celebrity status. Always injured and always complaining. They do have the best hair styles - I'll give them that. Too many foreign imports stifle development - are there any Englishmenn playing for Chelsea? The foreign imports for premier rugby are all retired from sth hem rugby yet seem to dominate in your competition - most couldnt get a game back home. Too many foreign coaches aswell - how difficult can it be to develop your own coaches.

Enough ranting, at the end of the day nothing has changed. I can't see England ever dominating any major sporting code because they will never have it in them. The odd win yes, but dominate - no way. Leave it to countries with genuine spirit and the capability of being tactically superior and with skills to match fitness.
As a sarcastic and arrogant class divided nation, stick with your fluffy Big Brother celebrity worship and pomposity. Leave the celebrations to the real winners

David Ross, Christchurch, New Zealand

Well, Peter McGuinness sums it up very nicely. It is a wonderfully evocative piece of writing and thank you for that Simon. As a Scotsman, I was hoping that Scotland might triumph at Twickenham but sincerely wanted Jonny W to do well - as an MCC member I always support England cricket but the Scotsman in me welcomes the odd thrashing imposed by the likes of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and of course the Ozzies. Surely that is what we love about our sports - the shere exeburance one day followed by plumbing the depths of despair the next, riding the clouds.
one day and then feet firmly on the ground.

Thank you again to Simon for his writings and good luck to England ,supported by the country (and the Barmy Army!) over the best of three finals to come.

Graham Donald, Trimiklini, Cyprus

Peter,

You are indeed extraordinary.

I picture you sitting in a deserted Gold Coast hotel, leaning on a formica bar and sipping on a cold one, oblivious to the swarming blowflies.

Fascinating.

And all the while, your immense treasure trove of a mind ticking over, composing blogs of such sparkling wit and stunning erudition, effortlessly belying your ignominious ancestry of criminals and prostitutes.

Remarkable.

And all this under the harshest of Australian conditions (i.e. the kerching of the slot monkeys,the blaring noise of the mindless bilge of Australian advertorials that passes for television there). Peter, mon semblable, I salute you !

Scintillating.

Your fulsome praise of this journeyman hack will doubtless draw comparisons with Pound and Eliot, but it must be clear to all that you are indeed 'il miglior fabbro'.

Regards, Barnesy

(btw could you get me a job at the Courier Mail ?)

Maria, Praha,

This reminds me of the fable of the much loved king, who had conqured the world , he loved his people and they in turn thought the world of him.However for no apparent reason he became very depressed refusing public life and vowed to starve till death. The subjects consulted and begged the king to tell the the cause and hence the remedy could be provided.
The king initially reticent finally said I have been thinking of this life, and i want something that when i am said will make me laugh , and equally when i am happy will make me sad.The subjects at a loss as what this could be became resigned at the passing of the king...Then a sage from the proverbial mountain cave came and gave the king a ring,The king on seeing the ring became immediately happy..the ring was no magic ring, it had an inscription engraved on it which read " AND THIS TOO WILL PASS"

SALIL K GUPTA, LONDON, uk

Simon,

You are remarkable.

You are the sporting John Locke of your generation. Or possibly Bentham.

Either way, the prosaic subtlety of utilitarianism, and the 'principle of greatest happiness' colour many of your pieces. You give all who love sport pause to reflect upon the complexity of our expectations, and the upon the nature of combat in context with non-participants.

Are your men Elphinstones or Marlboroughs? Cornwallis' or Wesleys? Fascinating...

Maybe though, England simply won a couple of games of cricket and the boys got up in a Rugby game. And a nice football match to look forward to later on in the week.

You're enormously talented.

You are able to write thousands of words every week about the galactic and existential meanings behind the basic outcomes of sporting contests.

Have you ever considered marketing copy?

I reckon you could write the script for a 30 minute 'Ab-o-mizer 5000' info-mercial straight from the top of your head in seconds.

Anyway ongoing thanks for the entertainment.

I can't wait for next week's reference to Visigoths or the Theory of Infinity, ( or Pax Britainnia or something......). Especially, if England win everthing. Good luck on all fronts Simon....

Peter McGuinness, Gold Coast,