This is a truly racist article. If you want to play the race card, then I also think all western people look alike. Big nose, sickly pale skin, ugly freckles, disgustingly hairy body. Not to mention their arrogant self righteousness. Wake up, this is the 21st century, and the chinese will rule it.

Yogi, Tokyo, Japan

To Jack T, Chicago ,

Why don't you leave America if you don't like it? There are many Asians living in America and quite happy. I'm one of them. I have Caucasian, African American, Latino, Arab, and Asian friends. America is truly a great melting pot.

John Tang, Irvine, CA

John Tang, Irvine, USA

There is this idea that all Chinese blithley go along with whatever the government says. This is not true. Chinese citizens do protest and petition their polititians for improvements in their lives. Some have even died. It's just that we rarely hear about it in the West unless it concerns us.

Hui Qi, Jinan, China

I totally agree with Simon's point of distinguishing the government and people.Many Chinese have the same issue as some westerners,when west criticizes our government,we think you are attacking this country and not friendly to our people.As a Chinese myself, I've got to say, we are nice but confused

Sharry, Yangzhou, China

China is changing rapidly everyday and YOU are not!

matthew, nb, china

Boris from London
I'm Chinese, I've read the Wild Swang. Well Jung Chang did made up some stories so it can make a good sell. But generally I think it's a good book. However, I think you missed the point by thinking China is the China 30 years ago. China is changing everyday but you aren't.

Clare, Chengdu,

To the Chinese public, Tibet ruled under the Dalai Lama is the most brutal and inhuman society in the world-- a serfdom in which ordinary people are no more than trash without access to education. property, health care and even basic dignity; also opium war is still very fresh in their mind.

Lin Wei, Beijing , China

Generally, a good article, but you ignore the very simple point that the attitude of the Chinese government (like any) influences the attitude of the Chinese people. A nationalistic government usually leads to a nationalistic people.

MarkChina, Beijing,

The last Chinese Mangchu Emperor (and collaborator with militaristic Japan) was deposed by the CCP, arrested, imprisoned, freed, "reeducated" and then lived on to work as a street sweeper. That's more humane than the French or the Russians have managed in 1789 and 1917.

Gene L, London, UK

I haven't been to China and will never go. I have asthma and I can't be in environments that promote passive death from smoking.

I would imagine that Chinese people are OK overall. But like us Americans the Government spreads to the World what people think;' Merchants of Death and Destruction.

Gary Holbrook, Golden, USA

I also spent 4 years in HK before the handover and in fact had more mainland than HK Chinese friends - they were all lovely people and real individuals, however their views on Tibet or Chinese claims to the South China Sea were always the same making real discussion all but impossible.

Patrick, Prague,

What a silly article! It is based entirely on the assumption that the reader thinks Chinese people all look alike and are therefore inscrutable and terrifying. The problems are not with distinguishing facial features; rather, most Westerners can't read or speak Chinese. That makes for the enigma.

Anja Petrakopoulos, Indianapolis, USA

'Wild Swans' by Jung Chang cannot be compared to any movies. It contains many details of everyday life, including previous 'CCP Great Leaps Forward,' such as melting down all the peoples cooking pots to make useless steel in backyard furnaces. This book is difficult to swallow in China I guess
.

Boris, Belgravia, London

Itbriar, Vancouver.

Have you read 'Wild Swans' by Jung Chang? Give it a try before nonchalant dismissal. It is a true and honest description of life in China both before and during the Cultural Revolution. I bet there are no translations available in China. Much too embarrasing for the CCP.

Boris, Belgravia, London

'Wild Swans' by author Jung Chang
That's exactly the problem. The West thought such work by Chinese must reflect the true picture! Wrong. especially in Western publishing world. Such bestseller or movie like Joy Luck Club is same as Flower Drum Song, geared towards Western appetite. Not real.

ltbriar, Vancouver, Canada

People are the same, whether they are born in Asia, or Europe, or America, etc, It is the governments they are ruled (or in my case, represented) by that make the difference. The Chinese government feels they must keep order so that they won't look "bad" to foreigners. Too late!

Marsha Eisner, Hicksville, USA / NY

If anybody who wants know about China, I mean the real China, they should know the history about it first, and then think it over whether it is true or false from an objective viewpoint.

Emily, GuangDong, China

i must say that before my departure i love the west, for the freedom i've seen in CHINESE medias, but now, four years later, this is no longer the case.

remi, paris, france

Living amongst the Chinese in China (Beijing and elsewhere) I discovered the Chinese people to be warm, friendly, sincere, very well educated and clever. A very different situation to my life in the UK and USA. It is only the Chinese politicians and government who are not to be trusted.

Bob Brown, Carlsbad, USA - California

Chris, Leeds,

I call for Asian Unity and it looks possible. China n Japan are on the right path. President Hu has made a good start. Hope that the 2 nations will seek common grounds & build on it. Confucius said. " A journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step".
Asia Union is nearer now.

Lim , Johor Bahru, Malaysia

"If we deny humanity to other people, we are only truly denying it in ourselves" appears like a virtue but is really false and hypocritical.
How about N. Ireland, who's denying humanity to whom?
How about Iraq, Afganistan, Dafur, Iran and others yet to come just to maintain global supremacy.

singacat, rome, italy

Ron, London

My close chinese friend is a 'beautiful dish' but that does not reduce the qualities of her writing. 'Wild Swans' the biography by Jung Chang is a truthful eye opener for both chinese and westerners.

Boris, Belgravia, London

To Boris

The three part biography 'Wild Swans' by author Jung Chang is a "oreintal dish" for Westerners, not for Chinese. Majority Chinese know millions times more than what westerners read about China. Your curiousity does not represent real China.

Ron, London, UK

The Equestrian Olympics have become a blood sport. 6 Olypmpic level horses in the US have died on courses designed by British coaches and Captians Phillips and Michael Efferington-smith. 14 riders have died. Bejiing should be interesting if the trend of death continues.

barb, california, usa

A united Asia would be nigh on impossible given how much the Asian states hate each other - Chinese people hate the Japanese, the ROK hates Japan, ROK and China have issues concerning history, North Korea hates everyone except China...the list goes on...

Chris, Leeds,

To know a place ,ask local.
But not some awared writer who live thousand miles away.Their conclusion is custom-built for their own reader's interest even to add insult to injury and modifing their own points.
Why are they so worried for China progress?

s leung, scotland, uk

To RHE, NJ, USA:

Will your boycott of the olympics stop the west's fear on China? Will it make the communist party crashed down? No!
If so, why are you still dong such stupid things?

Janice, HK, China

The three part biography 'Wild Swans' by author Jung Chang contains an accurate and honest picture of life in China from the time of the War Lords up to 1978. There are many details of everyday realities for ordinary chinese with objective accounts of several Great Leaps Forward under Chairman Mao.

Boris, London, UK

The West (namely US & EU) virtually controls the world economy since it dominates the WTO, IMF & World Bank.

US being the world's only super power and its Nato allies control the political scene in the world. Has no respect for UN.

Asia must unite if it is to survive and balance the equation.

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

There have been Great Leaps Forward in China before. Chairman Mao's bright ideas comes to mind, including melting down all of the cooking pots to make steel in the back garden. The current mix of Capitalism and Communism is an odd one. I hope for the sake of the Chinese people this leap works out

Boris, London, UK

Colin, Carmarthen, UK

I am Malaysian with Chinese roots. I can feel that today's Chinese especially the young are now solidly behind the Government. No Chinese wants to break the bowl of rice they are now enjoying. In the past they may not even have a bowl. That makes the difference. Can U C?

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

John Farley, derby, UK

U r right. I am Chinese Malaysian. The trend now in Malaysia is to be Malaysianised. I believe that both Malay and Indian Malaysians (all of us) would like to see 1st of all a strong ASEAN and a possible Asian Union. A united Asia will be more effective dealing with West

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

To Naleen, Northern California

You don't care about economy viability just because it is Chinese people's matter. You instigated the Chinese people to give up wealth and fast development for your interest on human rights? Will you give up your enjoyable life for your country's invasion on Iraq?

Janice, HK, China

Well,I have to say that I agree with Simon'point.Do not treat the Tibet issue with racial glasses.
As a high-educated person, to be frank, I do not believe what the China government media said.
But as a individual who has been to Tibet Area. I feel ugly when I saw some western media's reports.

Wei Shao, Fuzhou, CHN

It is beyond my comprehension why there is so much hatred toward the Chinese in the West, while the Chinese in China have so much admiration of and interest in the Western countries. Historically, it was the Chinese who fell victims to the West, not the other way around.

Ming Yu, Burlington , Canada

Lim in Johor Bahru

You have very optimistic pan-Asian sentiments - perhaps that is because with a name like Lim you are Chinese Malaysian. But what about the Malays and the Indian Malaysians? Or indeed other Asian nations? The Japanese had similarly Panasian notions in the 1930s, apparently.

John Farley, derby, UK

To me, I have to say your eye sight is somewhat so short that you can just see what has happened in the past 100 years. Trust me, the rule of Communist Party in China will last until its break up from inside. No sympathy, thanks, if you do think Chinese people have their own right to choose.

Robert Jia, Birmingham, UK

Dalai's claims are really really funny, but it seems that some you still believe in it. He claims supporting the one-China principle for years, but what the hell is the exile government, have you ever heard of an exile government of an autonomous region.

Robert Jia, Birmingham, UK

objective.
I love my city, my life...in China!

panpan, hefei,

Just because the Communist party rules in the country doesn't necessarily imply that the country is communist. As I said earlier, China is not "a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production", per the definition of communism (according to Wikipedia).

Alasdair, London,

Lim, Malaysia.

Historical facts cannot be ignored. Your arguments seem based more on emotional opinion than sound knowledge of the subject.

Colin, Carmarthen, UK

Colin, Carmarthen, UK

You make a creative writer. You even dream that in 10 years time, Chinese will have a new government. Listen, not hear the Chinese people do not mind the type of government so long as they do the job well and the Chinese people benefit and the country progress. Pls wake up.

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Good work to Simon for the courage to try and write an article like this. But please, Simon and anyone else with similar ideas, be much more careful next time. I know the point you are trying to make is well-intended. But there are things in this article that could be construed as very offensive.

Ryan, Melbourne, Australia

As China born Chinese now studying overseas, I must say due to limited information, Chinese in China may think in favor of their government because they compare current CP with the past, there is definitely an improvement. But still far from "democracy".

Not because they are brainwashed or spies.

Cui, Wellington,

Some people consider all the positive comments here towards the Chinese government are fake, I wonder who is been brainwashed by the propaganda?

Cui, Wellington,

Look, the majority of Chinese people are acutally wonderful people. I have been there 10 - 12 times for business and pleasure. The problem IS the government, and their intense and continuing subliminal ideological training, which even is affecting one of my friends living there right now from the US

Greg, Minneapolis, USA

I like the article. People in the west need to learn a few things, and learn it fast, otherwise it is going to be quite tiring. China, in fact, Chinese, 1.4B of them worldwide, are on the rise on the world stage. Get used to it. Get to know them as indivuduals, it will help you folks.

Eugene, San Jose, CA, USA

Re: Alasdair: you sounds like pro Chinese. You really need to research more further to say this topic. Let's go back to 7 Century.
King Songstanginpo( 1 year before Tang Dynasty- Gaozu Empire period was still Tibet king rule Tibet country. Time by time sometimes they both decreed exercise jointly.

Miki, New York, USA

A step to understanding would be for the BBC to air it's excellent 5 part "Chinese Schools" programme on BBC1 rather than the obscure BBC4. This programme just shows things as they are (minus the usual standard sneering commentary).

L. Stewart, Cranbrook, UK

I really laugh at the preceding statement. If anything, the only thing so "Communist" about China is the fact that it's still ruled solely by the communist party. There's no longer anything known as "common ownership", which defines communism, and anyone can profit as much as they like these days!

Alasdair, London,

As for why they "invaded" Tibet? Back in the early 1910s, China was weak and Tibet took advantage of the chaos to split up through an unequal treaty. Once China is strong enough (in 1950), it's a matter of principle to go back and retake what's theirs.

Alasdair, London,

Actually, many members in other Parties and nonpartisan are in current Chinese Government. Lots of educated Chinese people including office-bearer know and are thinking about the historical shelf life for a one-party government (like those in Japan, Russia(USSR) and Mexico ever) of about 70 years.

L. Zhuang, Tianjin City, China

Communism has an historical shelf life of about 70 years. That leaves the Chinese Communist Party approx 10 years to go before final redundancy. That does not mean the Chinese People will disappear. On the contrary they will flourish by forming a new kind of government of their own choosing.

Colin, Carmarthen, UK

I think we should set up debate on the stage to clear up who belongs to Tibet? China claims they own Tibet. If they own Tibet why China invaded Tibet and killed millions against Tibetans wills? If Tibetan enjoys living under Chinese rule they do not need to seek as refugees at neighbours countries.

mag, Toronto, Canada

Excellent !! I love your comments.
This time China got black eyes on the world stage. They can say what ever they want. The whole world stress Tibet struggles.
This is just beginning.

Miki, New York, USA

Simon Barnes...a nicely paced piece attempting serious distinctions. Fate, in the Tibet-China issue, is allowing us to consider, pending unification of the global peoples, how we'd like the status of the Individual to rest within the Collective of 7 billion -- THE Conundrum for the Millennium !!!

Arnold Miyagawa, British Columbia, Canada

Bravo, Barnes, excellent article. This is precisely what the world desperately needs: more understanding (or at least attempts at understanding).

It is easy to hate, and it feels good to yell out slogans. It is human to fear and hate what we don't understand, and it takes courage to try.

Adam Bai, NYC, USA

the western ideas of 'democracy and freedoms' are based on causing other countries and their people to die, not only the middle east. it's covered by blood and they aint working. It is not a model that suits china. In fact most of the chinese are happy with their current communist govtenment.

daisy, london,

Colin , Carmarthen, UK

When China shipped arms to Zimbabwe u called Chinese Govt a bad government. When the West ships arms are they bad or good governments? Do not tell me your government, the US or France (just to mention a few Western powers) do not sell arms? Y d double standard?
250408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

China has been held together artificially by the Chinese Communist Party ever since 1949. If the Communist Party were removed then a natural break up into ethnic regions would occur. Yugoslavia is one bloody example but that disaster does not have to be repeated. China is a very different place.

Colin, Carmarthen, UK

Given that a lot of the Chinese don't particularly like their government, and risk their own (partial) freedom and even lives to oppose it, I don't see any reason for us to be sensitive about what is, in every respect, a repressive dictatorship.

William McIlhagga, Ilkley,

>>Has the country ever tried something else different since 1949?

Sir, what works for you may not work for everybody. Deng said, black cat, white cat, whichever catches mice is a good cat!

So, thanks, save your something else for yourselves please. How about, you try to let Texas independent, or Alaska or Hawaii, just set an example for the rest of the the major powers, and let's see if we'd like it or not! How about it?

Bingo, Beijing, PRC

Yes we all know 1 party rule is not good governance. But going around bashing China whether we intend it for the government or not is sure not the right thing. Instead we are creating the youth of China to have bad impression of the west.

The youth of China only see that the west is bashing them them only even if CNN may intends it for the government.

They might be naive and ignorance due to media shut out 10 years ago, but they are as savvy as any other people in the world today due to the internet !.

They are not as naive as we all think that they only read what comes out from the government propaganda channel. The problem is a lot of what we hear and read in the west comes out from people who write with limited langauge abilities other than English, and who only write from a 5 stars hotel room, or get a english translator to do the rest of the other job.

This type of reporting is not helping people outside China to really know China. That is bad.

d. kean, hongkong,

Ideological value system gradually been abandoned since 3 decades before in China, after that China develop fast and the view of Chinese people improved much every year. However the western seems still hold its demoded ideology value system similar to the situation as China did 30 years ago ( then the medias in China are as biased as western medias , they always call for free and liberate the workers from capitalists' oppression in western countries ) , that is do bad to Chinese ,do bad to themselves , and do bad to the wholeworld. Can we be friendly to talk about our disputes?

luo, zhongshan,

I am not going to comment on the Olympic relay.
I wish to comment on six years of teaching experiencein China, including 31/2 in Jiangxi Province, one year in shanghai, and am currently in Tian Jin.
i am not afraid to identify myself and will do so at the end of this email.
My experiences over six years have been mainly postive from the very day I set food on the Beijing airport from Auckland.
I have met many hundreds of Chinese people, I havetaught some thousands of students[classes are often 60 students]
China is a very safe country ,
How many know the police never carry a gun.
Finally i could say a lot more,many ask me why do I enjoy living in China?Its the people is the reason, I am here on my own,but am never short of a chinese to look after me, and make sure I am Ok.
I met in 2002 one of the chinese leaders who was visiting a High School in Guangxi province,Chen Zili,this lady was the epitimome of elegance and chinese hospitality.
Come to China, before you criticise.

David Burt, Tian Jin, China

Look, either this serves as a beginning of a new "cold war" between West and China-Russia or let's say a new start of getting to know each other better and in-depth. I really don't like my Western friends commenting on what's going on in China, for what they believe is what they saw in their media, which always serves with a purpose. My point of view, westerns could come to see what's really going on there if people thinks it's bad here, and stop the arrogant supreme freedom ideology! I am born free too! I love peace and family, and everything good in Western moral standards, however, Chinese are generally more conservative than Westerners, or shall I say more family-oriented and collectivism-oriented. This does not mean we don't enjoy our life, just in different ways. We never judge the west with our point of view, if we were, then at least mine will be that at least EU is a very decay in terms of power and people, Muslims will sooner or later take over EU perhaps in less than 100yrs

Xu, Hong Kong,

But we never did it, never be judgmental. WE BELIEVE, Mutual respect and understanding is the best way for co-existence. Don't try to spread your whatsoever freedom as individual ideology to the rest of "Non-western" world just like what your ancestors did to spread Christianity forcibly to America and Africa. If the later option I previously mentioned will happen, then it's time to think again for yourself again, what happens in China must come with a reason, that people believe or act in a total different way. You need to understand and respect. After all, I dont see killing and wars here in China, however, a lot of terrorism and hatred in West though. Why? Think about it

Xu, Hong Kong,

I have lived in the USA for more than 50 yeears and now
retired. I once complained to a few of my black friends at work why was I treaded so badly by the whilte folks,. even though
I didn't do any thing to offend them. In fact, I tried to be very
friendly with them. I have never forgotten what they told me.
They said it didn't matter what you did., they wouldn't like
you anyway and.believe us, we were here longer than you, we
knew what the while folks.think and operate. So, I can say the while poeple of the Western world will never like us and we Chinese do not like them. Who coined the term "Yellow Peril" and "China syndrome" and "West is West, East is East , the twain never shall meet" Let's not kid ourselves. They have their own cultures and values, We have our own culture and values. It's high time to drop all the pretense and excuses.. The conflicts and struggles will go on forever. It's the survival of the fittest until one of us is vanquished. .

Jack T, Chicago , USA

Normally I would not argue with western people about anything related to Human Rights and Democracy in China. That is not because I dont have an opinion, but because I don't think we Chinese can argue with western people on a fair ground. It makes me laugh every time when I see theym so confidently judging China/Communist Party/Chinese based on limited information, which is unfortunately from "fair" media. You guys can choose to believe in Media, but I don't. I believe in national interests. I believe it is in the US and UK and many other "powerful" nations best interests to instage mistrust and suspicion among people against any country they don't feel comfortable with. Have you heard US--the human rights fighter--critiszing Human rights record in Saudi Arabia? No. What about US critisizing the puppet nations in Latin America? No. US and UK invaded Iraq to bring Human rights? No. Its previous ruler killed thousands, but US and UK troops killed millions.

Yao , London,

Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK

When you say you have a problem with the Communist govt., apparently you comment just based upon your limited and biased perception of what it did in the past, and communism being a thumb-down thing in the old cold war days. In fact, communism shares a very similar ideology with Confucius teaching - "the universe as a common property, the world in equality. One loves not one's kids but others, caring not just one's elderlies, but others. Let the olds have a home, the youngs be raised. Widowed, single, sick, handicapped all be cared and supported."

Furthermore, India though a democratic country by name, is actually monopolized by those "big" names and political leaders, with assassinations between rivals. If you prefer to deal with Indian, go ahead and may you be blessed, just keep your bud well padded so you won't be cheated or got burnt :)

ltbirar, Canada,

Dear Itbriar, Why is it not feasible for a someone to gain an indepth understanding of another nation's subcultures, history, folklore etc?I assume Adam's education on China at the School of Oriental African Studies (a worldwide ceter of excellence in London not Spain) far outdoes Harry's on the west. I quote "free scotland and northern ireland and boycott London Olympics"

Ned, Glencoe, Scotland

To Colin, Carmarthen, UK

In August 2007 France sold arms to Muammar Gaddafi of Libya in an amount of $405m (£199m). This was the regime responsible for the crash of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie in Scotland. Who's selling arms to what unsavory regime?

Leigh, Washington, US

To: Luca, Beijing
About your question, as an HK immigrant to Canada, I throw the same question back to you.
With the bias media like CNN, Fox, etc., and different presses which clearly show their own stand here and there, with large corporations like Enron crashing overnight, and Bush administration claiming Iraq's WMD which never were discovered, please educate me, how much about your country or USA do you think you really know? You are also allowed to know what you are allowed, isn't it not so? So in fact, how different is China from US or UK or any other part of the World?

ATKC, San Francesco, US

Dear Adam:
Let's say, if I had told you, I hold a PhD degree in Spanish Foreign Affairs from a Canadian institution, speak Spanish for over 30 years, travel a lot in Spain, would you agree with my saying that Basque should be free from Spain? See the difference? A foreigner educated in a 3rd country can never really better understand the country he/she studied than the native people. Understand a nation's culture and subculture, history and related folklores is not as simple as you try to put it.

ltbriar, Vancouver, Canada

Although westerners have multi sources, but are you westerners really sure that what your multiple media tells you are not the same thing? As far as I can see, the reports the western media made are still based on your government's view. Your government and media are just good at playing false games to make you feel that you are not brain-washed. Plz check yourselves before blaming others.

Xin, Manchester, UK

Dear Chinese Readers you seem to think that all westerners are ignorant of your country and don't understand you. I studied Chinese history at SOAS and did a masters on Chinese Foreign Policy. I speak Chinese and have travelled all over China in the past 20 years. I still say Tibet must be freed from Chinese control.
Its not yours. It is a conquest of war from an invasionwrought by the man who unleashed the cultural revolution on you.

The Tibetan people have a right to their own country.

Adam, madrid, spain

No one has the right to criticize others(even what you have said disobeys the truth) unless you are sure that you know the truth, and witness what happened in reality.
What is human rights? Does it mean that the saboteurs can hurt or even kill people or break up the nation?
No investigation no truth.

Truth, Tianjin, China

we need rational discussion

zhang, qingdao,

As an Chinese, I want to say the western media have bias towards China. Thanks to internet, you can see the real voice from China.But if you even do not believe this, it is showing your nescience.
China have more then 200 million internet pepole, do you really think The Goverment can control this?

gavin, shaoxing, china

despite what the article here tried to point out, the Chinese living in china are different, very different, as they have been brainwashed by the Chinese state which disallows any freedom of expression unless approved. don't appease Chinese government by kow-towing to the supposed Chinese nationalism please, the majority of the Chinese although brainwashed are still capable of deciding right from wrong given the opportunity. bash Beijing now to replace it or live with the consequences for ever. history is not set on a course to freedom and peace, it all depends what we do. please do not appease Beijing.

pamanush, HK,

Dear foreign friends, though you proclaimed that we Chinese are the victims under the opression by the Chinese Communist Party, we don't feel this way. We are not brain-washed, at least I am not. I have never ever sent an application form to be a communist party member, though based on my excellent academic records, there are good chances that I would be selceted. I am not a big fan of the CP, but it doesn't mean the current situation in China is so bad that everyone is like living in hell. As a matter of fact, though our systems do have some flaws, we are making some progress, and as a result our economy is booming. The so-called Tibet peach protest is indeed a riot which killed hundreds of people and burned 5 innocent people to death, believe it or not. I just wanna say here, we do not feel hurt by the ruling of the CP, but we feel hurt by your repeatedly protest against Chinese people and Beijing Olympic. Do you have any idea how many effort have we made to prepare for this game?

Rachel, Guangzhou, China

Hi Colin, UK

As reported, the arms was ordered in January by Zimbabwe govn't. That could be strictly business activity or for its stratigic interest of resources. Zimbabwe govn't was lauded by its African peers until recent downfall of its economy for all sorts of reasons.

Please also note that US govn't regularly sell advanced weapons including their best fighter jets to Taiwan even though US gon't recognises China is the sole representative of China and Taiwan is part of China.

Imagine if another country tries to encourage North Irland to split from from UK by providing all sorts of weapons and intelligence.

Zhongmin Luo, London, UK

"Can you imagine how hard it is for a government to rule a country which is more than 30times of UK with 1.3 billion population?"

Absolutely. Maybe that gives you more reason to let certain regions like Tibet rule themselves - saves you the trouble.

"One party government may be the right choice for such a large population country at present. When we can't afford to spend so huge amount of money on presidential campaign as in US"

USA is not the only multi-party democracy in the world. Not all political campaigns require a large investment of money. You've been led to think that one-party system is the right choice. Has the country ever tried something else different since 1949?

"Plz think who is brain-washed. Is your media always say the truth?"

Of course not. But at least we have multiple sources to make our own judgement. If not, we have the freedom to do our own investigation and criticize our government. Do you? Can you?

DH, MD, USA,

Dear Helen, Beijing

The Chinese People do not offend us here in the west. That message has been repeated over and over again on this website. That must be quite clear to you by now.

What does offend everyone in the world is the policies of the Chinese Communist Party. Your Communist Government are currently supplying weapons and ammunition by ship to the murderous Mugabe Regime in Zimbabwe, Africa. Did you not know that? That is just one example of the kind of bad Chinese Government behaviour that we are all protesting about.

The message from the west to the Chinese people cannot be more obvious. Why do you not understand?

Colin , Carmarthen, UK

Human rights means everybody should have a happy life. It’s not possible for the people of a poor country to have human rights when they don’t have enough to eat. This is what China should concentrate now: work hard to develop economy- let 1.3 billion people have enough to eat.

We have been developing fast for the past years. We are proud of that. But some western people don’t feel comfortable about that.

When Mr. Simon Barnes said that “A lot of our fear and mistrust of China comes from the fact that it is a one-party state and that political unorthodoxy is discouraged.” You are partly right to criticize our one party government. But the philosophy is that everything has two sides. One party government may be the right choice for such a large population country at present. When we can’t afford to spend so huge amount of money on presidential campaign as in US, when we have to work more than 15 hours per day to feed ourselves, we’d better have one party for the moment.

No bias, no hatred please! When we Chinese are working hard for a happy life, have we done anything to offend you?

helen, Beijing,

I agree with the author of this very, very insightful article. So well written and so true, thank you. Yes, Westerners do tend to mix the two, politics and sports, i.e. the people.
These protests aren't against the people of China, they are against its regime and only.
We are a mixed Amerasian family and certainly feel with the oppressed people of China. And don't anyone suggest that they are not. !

Someone up there posted this here "We are not spied on and can express our own views. "

Yeah, you bet, and we believe you too and it never rains in California either.... !

I too protest the torch relay, but not the games. For those too many worldwide have worked too hard . If we were to scrap the games, all that would have been in vain and athletes may never get a chance at another Olympics.

It's the regime we want to show up!!

Free Tibet and all Chinese !!!

Laura, Volga, USA

Politics and sport cannot be separated during the Beijing Olympics because the Chinese People cannot separate themselves from their Government. As long as you imagine that the Chinese Government and the Chinese People are the same thing then the west will always view China negatively.

I am suspicious of these badly spelt postings from China. I suspect you are all Chinese Communist Party officials, or privileged University students allowed access to the internet not ordinary Chinese people.

Colin , Carmarthen, UK

Any westerner visiting China particularly during the Beijing Olympics will receive a completely faked up impression of the country. The CCP will have everything so totally correct it will make you wince. If China wants to welcome the world then you need to show the interior of the country warts and all. Then we might begin to have something in common and we might begin to believe what you say. If the whole Olympics Show is nothing but grand displays, colourful national dancing, big smiles, sparkling hotels, regimented audiences and all the other clutter of an over organised autocratic regime then it will be precisely what we expected. Banal and boring. We are not mechanical robot tourists but real thinking human beings and want to have real conversations with real thinking human Chinese People, not the faked up version of China as invented by the unelected Chinese Communist Party. Why don't you sit down and think about that and do something about it?

Colin , Carmarthen, UK

TO RHE, NJ, USA

How much do u know about CP?
How much do u know about our country?
How much do u know about our people?

You should know what your government do in Iraq, in Kosovo. You should know your John McCarthy, and his notorious McCarthyism.

Anyway, we welcome you come to China to find what happened in the past years we proud of, and we welcome you say your idea after you yourself get the basic truth.

Plz think who is brain-washed. Is your media always say the truth? Think about what happened on your propaganda before Iraq war

Zheng, Qingdao, China

It can't be denied that there are some difference in the cultures between western countries and China. We chinese are peace-loving people and we have our just human rights to think in a reasonable way in various situations. The leaders of Communist Party of China is trying to lead 1.3 billion people to live a more comfortable life---it's no easy work. I hope some of you can make some time to learn more about China before expressing unfriendly ideas about the Chinese. I really feel sorry when someone is against China while he or she knows so little about China

Lili, Jinan, China

to Edward(of Bristol, UK):
Can you imagine how hard it is for a government to rule a country which is more than 30times of UK with 1.3 billion population ?If you're one of the farmers,you're still a farmer 100 years later ,let alone 60 years.Have you noticed that china is growing and developing in such an incredible rate?
we're collective partly because there is a deeply rooted thought that we should put others and our country first ,and we're educated that we shouldn't just think about ourselves.we don't focus so much on the individulism but it doesn't mean we don't respect human rights.

amy, shanghai, china

To Xiaoshi (of Hebei, China):
How can it be said that the Communist Party represents the interests of the Chinese people while, after 60 years under its absolute rule, most of the Chinese people are still 'farmers' and are still 'uneducated'? 60 years are very very long.Isn't your ruler wasting your time?

Edward, Bristol, UK

in fact, china communist part are trying its best to represent people's interest, we cannot enjou enough democracy because of historicao idology.most of chinese are farmers who are not educated .so we chinese just need time to change.we also prefer democracy.but there are too many chinese and we must change ourselves carefullu ,or we will cause some riots like in tibet.

yao xiangshi, hefei, china

Why are we not allowed to have a great Olympic games this summer?

Is it not an infringement of OUR human rights?

We're a country of 1.3 billion people and countless good athletes and sports lovers. Don't let politics and ignorant prejudice distract you from what should be the real focus in the next few months - great excitement that we're about to hold one of the most successful Olympics ever!

Welcome to Beijing!

Bo Li, Birmingham, UK

To RHE in NJ

Dude not all chinese who post here are located in the west, and we who live in china do have access to many western sites (maybe not all). I dont work in the secret agency, I'm not in the Communist Party and never like it. We are not spied on and can express our own views.

Olympics is a sports event and should not be used for polical reasons. Many have said already: should we "free scotland and northern ireland and boycut London Olympics?" How about free america and give it back to the native Indians? I guess no Olympic games will be held anymore. Attacking the girl in wheelchair holding the torch, and allowing this to happen, are no signs of human rights neither.

Most chinese see the olympics as a chance to open to the world and make more progress. Trying to tarnish the event will angry its people and wont back down the government. China is far from perfect, but trying to demonize it will do no good to the west at all.

Harry, Beijing, China

We westerners do understand the point, but I am not at all sure that the Chinese people understand the west.

Please may I explain

Western objections are not directed at the Chinese People or Chinese Culture.

Western objections are directed at the Chinese Communist Party.

In the west our People are seperate from our Government. Our People and our Government are not the same thing. That is because in our democracy we often vote against our Government and replace it with a new one of our own choosing. This is the very basic difference between the west and China.

In China, the Chinese Communist Party tells you that the Government and the People are the same thing. This has been repeated so many times to you at school and on television that you now believe this to be true.

I have several Chinese friends. They live here in the democratic west and much prefer the freedoms they enjoy in the UK rather than living under communism in China.

Colin , Carmarthen, UK

It's changing! It's getting better!
You don't know the REAL China in modern days.
You still judge us through the old eyes.

busy bee, chengdu, China

Every time I read the articles written by westerners, I feel funny. They try to understand China, Chinese people and Chinese culture. But they always miss the point. - Jude

Jude, Shanghai, China

Emerson wrote: "I heard a very good explanation of the cultural differences between us on Irish radio the other week. The speaker was a female lecturer who taught Western / Irish/ Womens studies at one of China's best universities. Talking about human rights she explained how the initial batch of 'rights' in the UN declaration were designed by westerners - freedom of speach, assembly, right to work etc. The latter rights represented efforts by Asian countries - the right to food, the right to shelter. Much more basic and fundamental. "

The female lecturer spoke the "offical line" of the Chinese Government (which is equivalent to the Chinese Communist Party). Being pragmatic people, and having years of painful experience of witinessing what happened to people saying things otherwise, many (most?) Chinese would say the official line. Unless we see democratic election in China, you can't really understand the real Chinese people by just listenng them talk in public.

P Tsang, Hong Kong,

This has nothing to do with the Chinese people per se but everything to do with the Chinese communist government. Heck, they didn't even elect their government. The Chinese government would like nothing better than to make it a westerners v Chinese people affair.

beng low
chiangmai

beng low, chiangmai, thailand

I heard a very good explanation of the cultural differences between us on Irish radio the other week. The speaker was a female lecturer who taught Western / Irish/ Womens studies at one of China's best universities. Talking about human rights she explained how the initial batch of 'rights' in the UN declaration were designed by westerners - freedom of speach, assembly, right to work etc. The latter rights represented efforts by Asian countries - the right to food, the right to shelter. Much more basic and fundamental.

This means that when Westerners criticise China's human right record they do not understand what the problem is. They will point to millions more people who get enough to eat and have houses to live in. They think they are doing a great job.

Emerson, Chester,

Chinese like peace, and It is a right decision to hold the Olympic Games in Beijing.

fxr, Beijing,

Even the Chinese government has changed a lot in 22 years, Mr. Barnes.

Unfortunately, as you have pointed out, many of us in the West have not changed.

C L, Seattle, WA

Mutual Respect is what we need to deal with the Chinese matters. Respect them as normal human beings. Chinese people are of no difference to the people all over the world. China is Chinese people's China. When we attack China, do consider the feelings of the Chinese.
People should live peacefully with each other. Do respect each other.
Do not label the Chinese with evil.
The Olympics are a good chance for the rest of the world to understand China better. Chinese people deserve having a wonderful party.

Eric , Seoul, South Korea

For people in the US or UK, read this article: Monopoly Media Manipulation

http://www.michaelparenti.org/MonopolyMedia.html

Michael, San Jose, CA, USA

Jas, Alders, UK

You still have imperialist thinking. How do you contemplate using the massive power you have in hand to solve the Zimbabwe problem?

Don't you think the Zimbabwean people should resolve their own problem? Britain has lost the right to intervene. Don't you think it should be the United Nations duty to act if there was something wrong there?

Can there still be spheres of influence by any country in this 21st century. If the world is to have peace and trust, then all spheres of influence should be removed. Even the world only super power must not have any sphere of influence.

Can you say I am wrong when I accuse the West as meddlers in other people's affair? There is nothing wrong with the west. You just need to look at yourself in the mirror and do not be a busy body.

Good Morning, Jas, please wake up. This is the 21st century. No more old colonial days.

Good day

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

I do wonder what Western libeals would be writing about white Britons who were as blindly and fanatically nationalistic as the Chinese who are responding to this thread. What is even more worrying is that so many of these are Chinese who clearly benefit from living in Western democratic countries. However, Chinese readers won't be hurt by my comments because I am confident that Barnes will censor this posting.

Tam Earl-Aine, cheltenham,

To Chris Chan! What is your point? Do you stand behind Chinas invasion of Tibet and the treatment of the Tibetan people? It´s hard to know if comments like your´s are ment to be serious? Wake up!!

And yes! I have studying a good deal about this problem and some history behind it! It´s all wrong what China are doing!!

Roger Christiansson, Onsala, Sweden

Talk about changing China we cant even sort out our spere of influence in Zimbabwe. Right through this Mugabe has ignored the West. What is wrong with us. We have massive aircraft carriers, spend a fortune on transport aircraft, submarines yet allow one man to wage war on thwe africans in his country. Can you imagoine how brave these men and woman have been in voting against this thug. Surely we should look at the Israeli action at Entebe to see how a long range action could be conducted. Clearly ten years of negontiations have done nothing except undermine the reputaion of the West. We brought this dopwn on ourselves but the thing is that realy disturbes me is how our rulers do little. Is this our own future? Does this show that Democracy is weak and can be swept away?

Jas, Alders, UK

Chinese people are one of the bravest and kindest people on the earth.

Like it or not, you will witness the Revital of our country.

Can the mass media be really objective and neutral?
I don't think so!!!
But at least, please don't lie, ok?!

IF YOU JUST READ WESTERN NEWSPAPERS AND NEVER HOLD ANY POSITIVE ATTITUDE TO CHINA,THEN IT'S TIME TO SEE THE WORLD FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE, BECAUSE I AM SORRY THAT YOU ARE "BRAIN-WASHED" UNAWARELY EITHER.

We have the dare to wait and see. C'est la vie.

Celia , Xi'an , China

United we stand , divided we fall.

Like it or not, you will witness the revival of our country.

Can the Mass Media be exactly objective and neutral, I never think so. But at least, please don't lie, ok?

IF YOU ONLY READ WESTERN NEWSPAPERS AND NEVER HOLD ANY POSITIVE ATTITUDE TO CHINA, THEN IT'S TIME TO OBSERVE THE WORLD FROM SOME DIFFERENT ANGLES, BECAUSE I'M SORRY THAT YOU ARE "BRAIN-WASHED" UNAWARELY EITHER.

We have the dare to wait and see.

Love & Peace

Celia , Xi'an , China

I just wonder how many western protestors really understand the history of Tibet and its problems and conflicts against the Chinese government.

I kept listening to various so-called civilised radicals. They have only one point to talk about - the Chinese government destroys the freedom and democracy of Tibet. "What do you mean? Could you tell me some examples, other than those you read from the paper ? " asked I . They were all speechless.

Now, I understand democracy in some people eyes, in some people mouth, can be very superficial and contentless.

Chris Chan, Hong Kong,

I am married to a Chinese man and I can say China is a peaceful fantastic country and the western propaganda is terrible and all this rubbish about Tibet. I hope that China is understood eventually but guess what - China does not need the west and does not need their limited opinions of superiority complex and political manipulation.

laura Ji, Oxford, UK

Thank you Simon, the sports columnist who have more moderate and maybe more insightful understanding of the current debates on the Torch issue, than many other prejudiced rightist here who denounces the "imaginary" communist state really hard.

But, is there ever really a true communist state now in the world? Maybe economically in Scandinavia, but never in China or USSR, as a Chinese I know this for sure.

Keep up your pressure on human rights, but in a more tactful way, as not to stir up the nationalistic sentiment among the ppl in China. Anyway what truely matters to my country now, in my opinion is the widening gap between the rich and poor, namely the issue or unequal distribution of wealth.

Human rights is all too ideal an issue to talk about, when one thinks of the well disguised deprivation and robbery committed by the USA government in the name of freedom in IRAQ . So, get real and get reasonable.

Alex, Chongqing, Chongqing

My dear westerners, how can you judge only Chinese people has been brainwashed? Haven't you? If Chinese people who live in China has been banned from the world by the Gov., then how can you explain those overseas Chinese, living in western country ,got angry with westen media and those protesters?

Mentioning about human rights, why don't you respect the human rights of over 1 billion Chinese people? Or at least we over one million netizens online?

Chinese people are not rich enough by now, but our brains are not poor.

By the way, I'm not the member from any party, otherwise, I could be bloody rich only for these days!

Would you please kindly allow us to love our motherland?

Melva, Beijing, CHINA

Is it opium time again? China used to be attacked by those bully countries. It looks like that the whole tibet thing provoked a lot of westeners from different countries have a go with the Chinese people, including Mr Barnes. What a stupid comment on '' Chinese look the same". Is that called racism in civilised English speaking country?

lucy , shanghai, china

If there is such "brutal crushing" of the Tibetan people, why are there Tibetans now throughout China, why are Tibetan monasteries allowed in other provinces of China, why are Tibetans allowed to have more children that Han Chinese?

However, I don't think the anti-Chinese sentiment is so much racism as it is economic fear and jealousy. How dare those
people threaten the Western economic dominance of the world?
Let's make up stories about them.

zjemi, Florence, Massachusetts

Regarding "Olympic is not the right platform to protest", we should be mindful that Tibetans have been trying to reach out to the Chinese gov't for the last 20+ yrs for dialogue. But all the Chinese do is completely ignore about it until recently because of International pressure China has "opened up" for dialagoue with preconditions that the Dalai Lama must stop seeking independence (even though the world knows that he's been asking for genuine autonomy) and that he must proclaim that the "Taiwan is part of CHina!!!" What has Taiwan got to do with Tibet? In anycase, Tibetans were protesting peacefully on March 10th which was the 49th anniversary since the illegal occupation, however that peaceful protest by the monks where immediately suppressed by brutal force that laypeople begin to stand up for the monks who they witnessed in front of the eyes. soon these unrest begin to happen and spread through the Tibetan plateau due to radio news abrod in remote villages in Eastern Tibet. Tibetans don't have guns to shoot back!! All they have is knives and sticks and stones.. against machine guns, tanks, snipper rifles!! Have you heard news of Tibetan using guns to kill? Not even CCTV has proof of that! So Tibetans have become very desperate now and they know that the world is paying attention to China and they are crying out to the world for help!!! As a person living in a free world we must do something to help them! China is great nation ofcourse, we are Asian brothers and sisters but if we are treated like animals (now for almost 50yrs) and no repect to our culture and traditions they how can we SHUT UP??? Please open you eyes and try to understand the root cause of Tibet's problem!! I've been to Tibet twice and I didn't meet one person who didn't have a family member or relatives killed directly by the Chinese regime! Its very sad....

Tenzin

tenzin, seattle,

China keeps on fighting back against the protesters saying "How can YOU talk about human rights, you're destroying Iraq!". With regards to the Iraq situation, I remember a certain march I went to a few years ago in London that at the time was pretty famous and featured millions of people (in a country of only 60 million) protesting against the war in Iraq. When people over here heard about Guantanamo bay, no one was happy and the same goes for any other human rights abuse that we've heard of that our governments are responsible of. Unfortunately given the governments we have, they didn't listen to us and it seems that the power of protest has become rather insignificant, but don't think for a moment we are happy with our governments doing this.

I find the chinese to have a difference about them that is hard for us westerners to comprehend and I'd imagine vice versa. But I am certain, regardless of media opinion, the Chinese people are a peaceful lot and would not encourage violence.

Jamie, Brighton, UK,

Simon Barnes has used a trump card by calling Westerners who condemn China's human rights record racists. That should shut us up and I note that just in case it doesn't, letters that fail to eulogise Chinese people, even if based on experience, have been censored from this thread.

Marion Morrison, cheltenham,

TO Y.Z Dong, Harbin, China

you seem to think that China is such a free speaking country, I quote "say what is in our heart".

I believe a few hundred CHINESE protesters tried to do just that about 19 years ago in what the Chinese government likes to call the tiananmen square "incident" ...

And having spent 4 years in Shanghai I can honestly say that the government is a controlling force which has turned 1.3 billion people into drones who have no freedom of speech and no opinion what so ever!

Dean, Shanghai, China

Luca, Beijing, China

You must be an expat living in Beijing. Tell me do you really know your own country so well that you feel it is okay for you to ask the Chinese in China. Are you so very sure that your Government has revealed to you all of the things they did or intended to do. If you cannot answer 100 % yes, then you have no reason to ask others.

I am very sure no government on this planet is so open that its citizen knows all..

Perhaps Mr.Luca, you should be more specific. What do you think the people in China do not know? Is it necessary?
What they know is China is now a powerful country. More cars on the road, 3rd country to send spacemen, Chang Er in moon orbit (not a dream), good food on the table, free to travel out of the country, encouraged to learn English, high rise living development and progress and so forth. What else should they want to know. Go to jail if you commit a crime? Life is short. Need not worry..

Have I answered you,Mr.Luca.

120408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Would it be too presumptuous to suggest a few Times articles on the dangers for westerners on foreign soil as trouble unfolds.
It would be tragic for Brits and Aussies to be caught in the Far East if things suddenly went tropo.
Id like to see some major travel warnings even this early.
MI6 could jump on and say what they already know is brewing.

G. Gibson, Sydney, Australia

of course, every one should hold a hostile attitude toward to the communist government .most chinese people are just being misleaded by the government about all the truths which have slightly related to the human right issues.therefore, please be patient. and do not feel frustrated toward the actions carried out by those people in dark. we do need your help!
a young man from china

cty, zhejiang hangzhou, china

Most Chinese do seem to support their government on this issue and not primarily because they have been "brainwashed". More simply because most people have a sense of affiliation with their nation and thus want to believe that their country is doing the right thing; that they are the good guys. From a Chinese perspective Tibetan living conditions have improved markedly, as a minority Tibetans are treated well with special privilages, and during the violent riots the Chinese police did what any country's would do and tried to restore stability. All the time they see themselves villified by many in the "west" (good point on that Luca) and to have the huge festival that they have been so looking forward to enjoying with visitors from around the globe tarred. I understand the anger and I say this as someone who feels very strongly that the people of Tibet today (Tibetan and Han)should be allowed self-determination on whether they want their future (forget the past) as part of China.

David Williams, Beijing, China

Well two from Shanghai, then you treat your "citizens" very badly. Maybe they don't want your fraternal socialist passport at all and would like to go their own way in the world. True socialism, according to Marx, would allow that in the first instance.

Maurice Le Poes, Brussels,

"Chinese people: they all look the same", "They will all have the same face and the same name, or seem to".
Your comments in the article are racist- how dare you advocate this sort of ignorance! I am sure that you would not have written a similar article about an African/Black community. Would you dare have said 'black people all look the same', " black people all seem to have the same face". Racism should not be tolerated in any form- against any race. I am a white british, yet indifference and ignorance is unacceptable.

Sean Johnson, Ruislip, England

David, Bromley,

David, it is a sad thing. A number of anti-China critics are just like you, same mentality. One suggested that the Athletes attend the ceremony but dressed in Saffron robes.

What else can you guys think of? What about this. " If you cannot beat them, join them." How about it? David. Join us One World One Dream.

12-04-08

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Kat California
"Racism is so not the point here."

You completely misunderstand how the population of China view the Olympic Games. Holding a successful Olympic Games has become a symbol of national pride for the population of China (whether they support the communist government or not).
By all means criticise the Chinese government. But these protests have attacked the very heart of national pride in China. Would you advocate that the critics of the Bush administration attack the US flag ? Yet, it is somehow easier to blur the lines between the government and the people / national symbols when it comes to China . That is the point of Simon Barnes article - there are racial issues here - hence the reason that many of your Chinese American compatriots came out in support of the Olympic torch in San Francisco.

KO, London,

Hu Jintao doe not behave like a world class president. He bares his teeth in angry resentment at every critical remark. He makes unsubatantiated accusations against anyone and everyone who contradicts or opposes the communist party line. The ultimate joke is accusing the Dalai Lama of fomenting unrest in Tibet. To all intelligent observers this is obvious nonsense and mere political scapegoating.
Where is the discussion and diplomacy that should dignify the high office of President? Why does this man dispense fear and threats instead of confidence and hope? China will never find a place on the world stage until the nation has a President and leadership up to the job.

Colin , Carmarthen, UK

Worrying

Perhaps the most worrying aspect of all of this is that everyone in China - and even ethnic Chinese in other countries - seem to have the same view.

Or do they?

I have read too many Chinese books to believe that all Chinese people a) like Communism, and b) have no compassion.

This is why I don't believe a great many of the posts. Some will be real; but some will be paid Party members, family and hangers-on.

(In Communism some Party members are more equal than others.)

Let's cut the nonsense: China invaded a sovereign country that was a buffer between other countries. The status quo worked well until Mao decided to grab it.

It is all to do with spheres of influence for the new up and coming superpowers: India and China.

It just so happens that China got their first.

It is boring listening to half-witted Communist Party drones treating their own people like unthinking babies. You really must try harder with your propaganda for the West. I don't buy it.

joe, Berwickshire, Scotland

How fairly the West treat the Chinese people now will go deep into the hearts and souls of billions of ordinary Chinese for a long, long time.
Don't worry, the Chinese will not strap bombs to themselves to blow up the London subway, or Eiffel Tower, or Empire State building. They will just wipe the spits off their faces, and go on. They will become more self-determined and self-reliant.
Most of the Chinese people bear strong pro-west sentiments. Why do you want to trample on such a sincere good will of so many people?
You don't have enough "Red Coats" to send to China or bomb it into submission with "Shock and Awe". It is the West that needs to come to terms with the Chinese just the same as the Brits did with the Americans, (may be).
There are billions of hands reaching out. Take them! There are billions of arms open. Embrace them!
Tibetan brothers and sisters, your best chance for a better life is not Nancy Pelosi or Gordon Brown. It is your Han brothers and sisters live next door.

TCm, California, USA

I for one have no problem with the Chinese people, just their government. They have been indulged for too long and could turn out to be dangerous. It is time to stand up to them before it is too late.

It is convenient for western companies to deal with a totalitarian state. Decisions are made more quickly, dissent is not tolerated. We should examine our consciences about all of our dealings with China. Why has it been so favoured when just next door there is another vast and emerging nation, India, that also happens to be a democracy? Is it because China is easier to deal with? Then we should be ashamed.

The Olympics should never have been given to China until they made real tangible progress on human rights. It is not too late to put a halt to this. Let's have our sports tournaments in places like Sydney or Athens. In fact let's move this year's Olympics to one of those cities. That will show the Chinese government we mean business and the Chinese people that we care.

Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK

Ni hao to all! I understand your anger, I am a latinamerican who lived in your country for several years, I know you are very proud people who love your country, past and culture, don't we all? I feel sad to see "the west", and may i remind you i am a westerner as well, using The Olympics to make an example of you, to "show" the world what China is like, what everyone seems to forget is that human rigths abuse exists everywhere to a lesser or greater extent, let's mention some African countries to see people's fear and disgust, let us do the same with south and central american countries and you'll hear comments about war, poverty, lack of development, drugs, kidnapping and so on. Perhaps it is the media we ought to judge and not a country's individuals who are overall caring, welcoming and wanting to present a good image to the outside world. It is people who report news who present such a distorted image of what other countries are like.

Mimi, Chiloe, Chile

GO CHINA!

Once a Chinese, always a Chinese.

The West have no right to comment on what is going on in Tibet. You guys support the Iraqi war and have made a huge mess! Sort your problems first before meddling into China.

A Proud Chinese, Y, Singapore, Singapore

Maybe, the majority of Chines people want to live in peace but the Communist Government is singing a different tune. They have and continue to threaten Taiwan, They are sitting on Indian land, they are viciously colonizing and commiting cultural genocide in Tibet; hardly actions of a peace seeking peace loving nation. Go back to 1961/2 when they attacked India after signing a five point treaty of peaceful co-existence. Their military build-up hardly indicates peaceful intentions. They just cannot be trusted. If the rest of the world do not keep their guard up, look out, we will regret it.

Johan, Toronto, Canada

It seems that the Chinese government is missing a huge chance to show the world that they have good intentions--bashing the Dalai Lama who is one of the most beloved people in the world just makes them look backward and foolish.

As for the Chinese people, there is also a considerable mass hallucination going on there as well--I am sorry to say that personally know far too many Chinese Americans who are running around spouting the propaganda produced by the government of China, when the whole world knows the truth about the treatment of the Tibetans. It is a deeply shameful legacy on the part of Bejing and its lovers.

I respectfully disagree with the author of this article. I believe now is an opportunity for the Chinese to wake up and join the world. We are waiting for that nation and many of its far flung former residents to stop playing the victim card.

I don't dislike the Chinese, I dislike how they act. And, in general, they make themselves the enemy of everyone.

Rhonan, Seattle,

Even assuming those apologists for the Chinese government who point to western imperialism and cry "hypocrite" are right, that says nothing of the plight of "undesirable" people like the the Falun Gong (sp?) practitioners'.

They are being imprisoned, tortured and having their organs "harvested," or more accurately "surgically stolen and sold", by the Communist party

Contemplate the monstrousness of that for a moment. Imagine what it would mean if even your own vital organs were not beyond the inhuman, rapacious grasp of the state.

This alone more than warrants the protests. It will be best if they grow so strong as to prevent the games entirely.

Umn, Stamford, CT

All nations have major problems and often look at
the problems of other nations and criticize them.
I am 72 years old and 3 yrs ago a very wealthy
friend (retired anthropolgist) gave me the chance to
travel and meet the rural people of ancient China.

A culture 3500 years old and the same as my personal life of struggling to raise a family working the land. Our children have left us. Mine have college degrees and live in big cities. Their children work in factories making my clothes and other trade goods.

For 14 months we shared food and love for each other and ourfear of weather and the destiny of our children.We also shared our love of music, dance and poetic drama ignoring modern politics, religion and world class athletic events.

I have found Chinese common people to be very
proud of their struggle and endurance but I love
them because they loved me and when we were hungry and ate from one bowl of rice we fed the
children first. Very loving and polite people.

John Murphy Shaw, Prescott, Arizona/USA

I have witnessed first hand the pride that Beijingers have in their city, their excitement at winning the games and their sense of eagerness to host and entertain the hundreds of thousands of visitors who will be arriving in the summer. They do not pocess the cynicysm that I myself and I'm sure a lot of others feel about the Olympics. They are almost childlike in their enthusiasm for it. To see ad campaigns extolling the people to stop spitting, queue like westerners and learn English phrases so that they might be better hosts is frankly humbling. They really, really want the world to see them for what they are. Proud, hospitipal, friendly and believe it or not, exactly the same as the rest of us. People with the same burdens, aspirations, desires and emotions. The Olympic Games is Beijing's coming out party and we should be welcoming them to the global family. Whatever their government is up to is no reflection on the people of Beijing.

Andy, Beijing, China

Amen to this article. Something nice to say about China at last!!

Jim, Wenzhou, China

I speak as an individual of chinese origins not born in china nor ever to have set foot on chinese soil. China's hard-line policy is a natural result of the difficulty in controlling its large populus. One cannot expect the same level of efficiency when comparing goverance with that of a smaller country based on the same rules. Obeyance is something human beings are generally against and us humans are as Thomas Hobbes rightly identified comtemptuous and opportunistic beings. Take for example the freedom argument and tag freedom of speech with aggressive hijacking of businesses like the Huntingdon Life Sciences affair. Has freedom done anything for the brit born terrorists who have chosen to bite the fingers that feed them? That is a real pain for this government or any government. Oppression of course is not entirely justifiable, but give them time to exact change.
My two cents worth of opinion would be worth a lifetime of your earnings if you fail to understand such simple logic.

Darren, London, United Kingdom

Thanks for what the western do about the Olympic Game. I know that we Hong Kong people are really Chinese, not british. I feel shame as we were the citizen of a colony of britain before 1997. Since 1997, we were actually FREE. Free from being a colony of such a nation,full of distorted news materials, full of people that do not respect the others, only know saying others are being brainwashed.I never feel I love my country so much. I am proud of being a Chinese, forever!

Andre, Hong Kong, China

Is chinese bashing the latest trend ? It feels like the whole world is against us ! We open our hearts to wellcome you all but in return we get a smack in the face. It's true a lot of old people learned english because they wanted to greet the visitors and No they don't get paid by the government. I am speaking for myself only but now i wish we was not awarded the Olympics.

Lily, H.K., China

Why Chinese people got angry? I can't explain others, but my piont of view.
It's our good will to hold this Olympic cuz we think it could be a chance for China to make great progress on most of sides. However, most of western countries tried to humiliate our will. We ordinary Chinese have worked that hard for the Game. Have you seen aged people learn English that hard only for welcoming you, and most of us even improve the details in our daily behavirs, and now, you western guys said China is not qualified to hold it. When the protesters ruined the relay, too many westerners applaused beside...... If someone throw rubbish to your smiling face, will you still be peaceful whille seeing Chinese applausing aside?? Will you??

Melva, Beijing, P.R.CHINA

Are all these chants and chest pounding from the West to the drum beats of human rights real benevolent acts for justice? or self-righteous, or ignorant, or another form of remedy for "white guilt"? One must wonder.
How long ago the ‘enlightened ones” thought slavery was justified, or even divine?
What would the West say if a couple of thousand American Indians take to the streets of Los Angeles, demanding their lands back and declaring independence as the “Republic of Cherokee”? What an insolent notion!
Do you think any American Indian chief to “peacefully” propose such a thing would receive a Nobel Prize; perhaps, a Congressional Medal of Honor; or at least the EU Parliament would demand President Bush to have a “dialogue” with the American Indian chief, otherwise the heads of its member state will not show up at the next G8 meeting? Any chance? No! The Chief will belong to the asylum!
Do you see why the Chinese, inside and outside of China, are not buying?

TC, California, USA

To Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Thank you for your very civilised reply, it is very clear the message you are trying to convey and I think we could debate about it endlessly. In genereal, do not quite agree with the concept that there are two separate and well defined groups. Moreover, at the core of the current debate it seems to me that there is more of a Chinese Vs Non-Chinese stance whereby any allegation against China's human rights record must be staunchly denied, in spite of clear evidence that the breaches are there for everyone to see.

To me, some rights are inalienable by definition and it's not just a 'western' thing. I would challenge all those who deny it, to keep the same line if they found themselves in a situation where their legal safeguard, just to mention one, was by no means guaranteed.

That's what I meant with lack of self-critical skills.

Luca, Beijing, China

I am a Tibetan and I do not hate Chinese people at large. But I do demand Tibetan Independence. Lots of Chinese bloggers are ignoring human rights issue in China out of blind natiionalism and if they love living under restrictive laws, it is their choice. Tibetans are not Chinese and no amount of force or propaganda can change that fact. Reasons like feudalism and backwardness of Tibet do not give China right to invade Tibet. Colonism should end now. We live in the 21st Century. Human beings everwhere should be free to live without fear of losing lives and limps. Tibetans do not have that right now. Support Tibet.

yakmanok, Madison, USA

To Bill Adams, London, UK

"Is China's treatment of Tibet comparable to England's treatment of Scotland? "

If Scotland declared independence, do you seriously think the 'UK' would say "no, you can't" ?

Marco, KrakOw, Poland

Regardless of the situation in Tibet, disrupting the Olympics is a bit of fashionable expression which is a bit more fun than checking differences of one-hundredth of a second. The Chinese like precision in their parades and performances. Disruption becomes the sport.

David, Bromley,

Free Corsica
Free North Ireland
Free Scotland
Free New Mexico
Free Falkland Islands
...

jacob, shanghai, China

To Bill Adams, London, UK

"Is China's treatment of Tibet comparable to England's treatment of Scotland? "

No.

FR, Basingstoke, UK

Luca, Beijing, China

Re your response To Ed,

The US, UK, Germany, France Australia, NZ and some of the European countries who share very identical ideologies are referred to as the WEST. When one (esp US) say something, it is more or less echoed by the others in the group. This is why they are collectively known as the WEST. In fact some of these countries loved to be referred to as the West.

At the moment we do not have a EAST group yet because the countries in the region have different ideologies.e.g. Japan and South Korea are west leaning Asian countries. China, North Korea and Russia are socialist countries but they do not really share the same wavelength. It is therefore difficult to group them all up as the EAST as yet.

Mr. Luca, hope you get what I am trying to say. I am not British and I may not be able to express clearly.

Sorry for the intrusion.

120408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

thank you~
as you know the "Party" make volience here. not by the people

wong, Harbin, china

to RHE, NJ, USA

You might have been to China and Tibet, and, yes, you might have studied Chinese history. But your comment shows you are Dala's follower, you sound like a Tibetan "noble" Exile who is outcrying the lost land to landless Tibetan serfs who are Chinese citizen now since 1949.

two, shanghai, China

Great article. Its not the people who we take issue with, although reading the comments made by some of them the indoctrination of "The Party" certainly becomes apparent.

Every square meter of land on earth has changed hands dozens of times, and Tibet is no different. If we accept that Tibet is part of China (which the Dali Lama accepts to a point) that doesn't mean the rights of the indigenous population can't still be respected.

I keep reading Great Britain given as an example, with our repression of Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales, so lets stick with that example. Our passports say "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Within this single country, you have Scotland, with its own parliament and Wales and Northern Ireland with their own assemblies. All have the ability to self govern in the best interests of the local population to an extent. I'm not saying the systems perfect, but at least we don't need to get violent to stay "United". Except when we play Rugby

Mark, Zurich, Switzerland

That some people are racist against the Chinese is both deplorable and a good topic for in-depth analysis but is besides the point at hand.
It's like when Fox News (same corporation as Times you say?) calls Americans unpatriotic for criticizing the government. It's subverting the issue, distracting from the main point. The implication here is that people who are protesting China are racist. But somehow these same people are not racist against Tibetans? (Do Tibetans give you a larger "range of features to work with" Simon Barnes?)
Racism is so not the point here. The point is that we are dealing with an oppressive regime (Chinese government) and an occupied territory (Tibet.) We are also dealing with Western governments coddling that regime starting with first ambassador Bush Sr. and his pro-China policy even after the massacre of innocents at Tienanmen.
The issue here is not whether we are racist to protest China this Olympic season. The issue is whether we are protesting enough.

kat, California, USA

Boycotting the Olympics is a good start but people should also look to their own governments' complicity by tolerance in China's human rights violations. We should also protest and boycott businesses that help tyrannical regimes like that of China's ( Yahoo, MSN..)

I honestly don't know whether the Olympics were ever what they are supposed to be (a time for peace and uniting of peoples and of healthy honorable competition among athletes.) They certainly haven't been that for a number of years. Instead the Olympics are a venue for corporate profits, illegal drug pushing (doping anyone?), destroying of neighborhoods, government overspending and implementing of authoritarian "security" measures (see, spying on the people.) So in a way China is a perfect match for the Olympics. But the people of the world should take this opportunity to protest both.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." Thomas Jefferson

kat, California,

To Ed,

Yes, I know about the opium war. That's not my point. First of all, please define thoroughly what you label as West. If there really is a compact set of ideologies that can be labelled as such (and by no means there's one) then let's move on to define what East is. It cannot be done because it is not like that. So please let's just consider the main characters of each event individually. The UK colonised and exploited India, for example, not the West. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, not the East.

Secondly, it's not a matter of cynicism: it's a matter about being self critical. I completely agree with anyone who says that no-one is in position to patronise China, but the real problem is not to confund cynicism with lack of critical skills, which is what is actually being put on display here.

To Angus,

In my case it's called resarch and it's something that gives you an insight into those things that the majority of the posters here want to deny at all cost.

Luca, Beijing, China

come on guys

Get real,
here we have a world where we have a food crisis and with millions of people on a poverty trap, all your priorities are wrong.

On china, it is not perfect but it attempts to feed and cloth and educate its people.It is alright for the armchair critics to condem China,

let us start with the following
France: Look at your inner cities and the headscarf /hijab issue
UK:uour teenage binge drinking and your broken families
US:blind devotion to israel; treatment of native Americans; Iraq
Australia: Lost generation

Hock, Singapore, xx

t cheung, Los Angeles, USA/California

You are absolutely right. China will change at its own pace and time and can only be made by the Chinese people themselves.

Yes, Mr.Cheung, please educate your American friends. China must be left alone.

Thank you, Enjoy your stay in California but please do visit China for more insights. Do not forget your roots.
120408

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

Communist China is by far the worst human rights violator in the world. As a Chinese living abroad, I do pay more attentions of the repressions in China than many of my non-Chinese friends.

The fact we have been watching on TV the Palestinians' struggles, the invasion of Iraq, the war in Afghanistan and many other events, news reports from all sourced make all of us quite aware of problems elsewhere in greater details than what the world knows about China. I don't think the human rights abuses elsewhere come anywhere near the extent and the degree of brutalities of Chinese Communist government. Just as the Holocaust is one of the most horrific tragedies in human history, the crimes against my fellow Chinese committed by the regime should be put in the same category of the genocide of Jews. It's estimated 50-70 million people that have died under communist regime in China. I hope there will be justice for my people who continue to bear the pains and humiliation under the regime.

Kathy, Ontario, Canada

To Luca:

The west had an opportunity to provide china with democracy and human rights starting from the 16 century.
Instead they provided the chinese people with a life addicted to opium. Ever heard about the opium war? Simply put, the chinese wanted to enforce a total ban of an illegal drug but instead they had to surrender hong kong and open up additional ports as compensation for destroying opium found in their waters and territories.

I am not defending everything that the chinese govenrment does but I think we should be more understanding about why the chinese are cynical about anything the west says.

Ed, Sydney, Australia

Simon - you are quite correct to bring up the notion that it is the Chinese government we have a problem with and not the people.

However, your assertion that Americans were off base when asking you about your oppression of Ireland needs to be examined more honestly. You live in a democracy and therefore you do have an element of say in such matters - unlike the Chinese.

Paul, Esher,

to: valmik soni, mumbai, India

I am German ,comming to China, and have the same strong confident regarding China ,could not have expressed my feelings better than you in your posting here,thanks.
Thank you Chinese people,thank you Chines government for making us forigeners so wellcome in one of the greatest country on this planet!

e_widiner, shanghai, china

Forgive me,I have forgotten when USA invaded Iraq.So you think you have given pepole in Iraq human rights?Before you westerners entered Iraq,they can,at least,be alive.But now ,what are they suffering?
I found everyone who agaist we Chinese had never lived in China.So how well do you know about China?So listen carefully,you ,westerners,we Chiese,can go where we want to ,say what is in our heart.If you are not so familiar to our country,please keep silent and spend your time reading history books,thank you!

Y.Z Dong, Harbin, China

TO SUN YU,
You must be one of the few dissidents or surviving FalungGong fellowers in China. If so, you do have an axe to grind. Believe it or not, I am not a paid commie agent in the
US. You can ask the FBI to check me out.

Jack T, Chicago , USA

Even we, who have lived here for years , do not really know about my country how can you know?

angus, Jinhua, China

Excellent article. There's a question which I would like to ask to all the Chinese posting in these blogs and attacking the so-called 'western approach' (which in itself it's just a label and means nothing at all). They argue that we know very little, if anything, about their country. Well, from here in Beijing I'd like to ask them: what do you actually know about your own country? I am not being controversial for the sake of it, but I'd like everyone to realise that the Tibetan issue is just the tip of the iceberg: much worse things - in terms of human rights safeguard - actually happen in mainland China (prisons, trials, access to lawyers,etc). Now: in order to get some info you need to find your way and look at official sources which are well and truly labelled as "forbidden" (a.k.a internal or nei bu) hence not accessible to people at large. In a country without freedom for info, without independent media, no free TV reports, no eye-opening movies..what do you really know?

Luca, Beijing, China

If the west feels so strongly about freeing Tibet shouldn't they also follow their own standards by returning all of America to the native american indians, Australia to the Aborigines, New Zealand to the Maoris. Everyone knows that the strength of the west was created from the work of african slaves and exploitation of peoples from 3/4 of the world.

As an Australian I feel very sad for the oppression of Aborigines. It took over 100 years for our government to officially apologise to them. Those who do not understand what happened can refer to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_generation

My point is that the west has no moral leg to stand on. So instead of lecturing freedom and human rights they should act more humbly and focus their attention on compensating the people they stole from. If they are truly sincere about human rights they should put their words into action and lead by example. Perhaps then other countries will follow.

Ed, Sydney, Australia

To Johan:
The simple facts are this. China does have historical justification to claim Tibet. Similarly it is understandable that some Tibetans may want independence. So the sovereignty situation could be murky. But however murky, nothing is more clear than this: China's claim over Tibet is 1000 times more legitimate than the US rule of California, Hawaii, New Mexico and Texas. Indeed Tibet was part of China BEFORE whites established their rule in the Americas, Australia and New Zealand.
The big difference however between Chinese rule in Tibet and white rule elsewhere is that the Chinese by-and-large preserved the Tibetans and did not kill them off. Tibetans are still 90 percent of the population of Tibet. Tibetans still speak their own language. Do Sioux, aborigines, Maori?
No. Native Americans are only 3percent of America. Aborigines are 2% of America. Aborigine life expectancy is 59.6. Tibetan life expectancy is 67.
The West invaded China in the past. China did not invade anyone.

wayne, Hong Kong, China

Tsering,
The 1959 uprising, instigated by the CIA, was supported only by the minority slave-owning Tibetan religious leaders and aristocrats - angry at land reform - where feudal lands were distributed to the thertofore landless serfs.
Ninety-five percent of Tibetans were serfs before China resumed sovereignty.
Tibetan population has tripled since 1950. Tibetan life expectancy has doubled since 1950.
Many Tibetans still live traditional nomadic lives.
What happened during the cultural revolution was not targetted at Tibetans. ALL religions suffered. It was smash the 'four olds' all over China - not just Tibet. And in fact many of the red guards were Tibetans themselves - sons of serfs.

Tibetans still control most of the land in Tibet now. You can come back if you want. And I guess you would love to give your house back to the local Native American tribe in your area - in order to stop 'swamping' them.

Wayne, Hong Kong, China

I lived through the Cultural Revolution, witnessing, as a young boy, my parents ripped away to be sent to "Reform Camps" because they were experts in their respective fields of medicine; I have been educated, lived and worked in California for over 20 years.
The xenophobia of Chinese at display is quite stunning for it lacks understanding, civility and foresight. The inability of the west to understand the inevitable rise of China will have long-term negative repercussions in many fronts.
Meaningful changes for Tibet, or China, can only come from the Chinese people, not from the westerners shouting on the streets or the grand standings of the politicians from the west. Changes will take time, particularly for a country like China, with the burden of its size and history, but I believe tomorrow will be a better day.
Chinese are not 1.3 billion mindless, menacing minions serving the Darth Vader, but a hardworking people striving for a better tomorrow.

t cheung, Los Angeles, USA/California

PenLin--Essentially all Chinese persons who post on sites such as this currently are located in the West (primarily as college students, graduate students, and postgraduate trainees). (Check your own address: USA. Check other Chinese posters' addresses: USA, Canada, Europe, Australia, Asia outside China, etc. A few posters spoof addresses in China rather than their current addreses in the West, but most are honest.) The 1.3 billion Chinese persons currently in China do not post for the simple reason that they cannot access these sites...unless they are in the state security forces and expressly tasked with monitoring these sites. The blocking of Western news and opinion sites..and even sites such as YouTube...on PCs accessible to Chinese citizens in China indeed is absolute. [BTW, for the benefit of Eric, who asked this in a previous postin, yes, I have been to China and Tibet (both within the last year), and, yes, I have studied Chinese history.]

RHE, NJ, USA

Just the same.... I would like to see the USA and Taiwan ready for a bad reaction to all of the international condemnation.
A flop of a games might mean much anger from mainland China.

G. Gibson, Sydney, Australia

RHE, you made a very bold statement here, "with *absolute* blocking of foreign news and opinion sites on PCs used by Chinese citizens...". Don't you read many comments by readers from China on this site?? I've lived in China for 20 years and US for 22 years, I have to tell you, the so called "Free media" does a much better job at brainwash than the communist party in China (because the communist party's propaganda is simply stupid IMO) . I would agree with most of the Westerners that the Chinese Communist Party has a bad record on human rights, but to label the current Chinese government evil is a bit far fetch IMO. The Communist Party today is drastically different from 40 years ago, they are most like socialist than communist. Do you know how many people was lifted from poverty in China within the last 30 years. Do you know, under DaLai-ruled Tibet, the average life span was 37 years and majority of tibetens were slaves of these monks? Dude, please do some research and *think*...

PenLin, NJ, USA

I am a Tibetan, today living in the west. I have never seen the land of my ancestors. My bedtime stories when I was a kid used to be tales of Tibet. My mother used to talk about the vast plains, the clear rivers, the clean air and the songs they used to sing in the fields.
I have never known my grandparents, for they didn't escape the Red army's persecution. I remember a half deaf, hunchbacked uncle in India. I was told he wasn't always that way. I remember in India where I was born, the tight little shacks we called home, playing dodge with the raindrops forming puddles around the little space I shared with my family. I remember ever since I could walk, joining other Tibetans in peaceful protests every year come March the 10th, calling for Tibet's freedom. We were barely heard, until today.
We Tibetans do not hate the Chinese people as such. We are up against the Communist China's goverment. All we want is what is rightfully ours. Our own plot of land. Too hard to understand?

Tsering Tibetan, Calgary,

I've been to China, from Beijing through most of the Yunnan Province, three times the past two years and consistantly found the people friendly and delightful. I had the same experience recently while touring Turkey. I agree with Mr. Barnes' article.

John Fisher, Chico, California, USA

China may have made a lot of "progress" in the last thirty years. They no longer shoot people for trying to leave the country, for example, and instead seem to actively encourage emigration, of their elderly at any rate, to be taken care of by other countries' social welfare and health systems.. China is simply using a means to get to an end(good marxists that they are), the means being hosting the Olympics, the end being an image makeover. It is they who have politicized the Olympics ahead of the Tibetans, the Darfur advocates, the human rights activists and anyone else who objects to their wrapping themselves in the Olympic flag. As for Simon's statement about "humanity", I couldn't agree more. But there are cultures and there are cultures. I live in San Francisco and I am sick of what that particular "culture" has done locally. I have no doubt they just want to take care of their families and have a nice life like everybody else. It's the way they go about it that's the problem.

johan, san francisco, usa

To Sun YU, Shanghai
'I can tell you that almost all Chinese groups parade in London are organized by the consulate, and these people are got paid to do what they do.'

Do not make this kind of story any more please. Some people allways think Chinese govement controling ererything. I remember Associated Press reported 'Chinese flags distributed by the Chinese Embassy and the Bank of China.' I was there , it was not ture.

Steve, London, UK

Never have I read something so outrightly racist and still find it to be so prevalently accepted throughout the entire western hemisphere.

Jonathan, Pittsburgh, USA

please don't politicize Olympic Game.
Olympic Game is Chinese people' Olympic dream.
Don't destroy our dream.
My friends,give us a chance to get to know each other better.

Jie, shanghai, china

I am a Chines,From the 1980s,the open and reform policy makes China get better and Chinese have a better life.Every one can look it. Although the government has lots of problem,such as no freedom on press,bucause we are developing country, we need time to get better Why the west country anti China,we get very very stronger .They are afraid.

Gong Yan , Beijing , China

Finally a semblance of good sense in this newspaper.

Nathan Lee, Oxford, UK

Every country has some wonderful citizens and some less so. China too, of course. The article is spot on - don't confuse the system with the people.

When I look at the system in China, I see a lot of things to be very concerned about. But when I look at where China's system was not all that long ago under the unspeakable Mao, I am truly impressed at how far they have come and how well they have held it all together.

It is fashionable to denigrate the Chinese system, and it is easy to argue that there is as much wrong with it as there is in western systems, but nothing is forever and I think they have done brilliantly well so far. They will learn from the Olympics and move on. We should too.

Mike, Sydney, Australia

I can tell you that almost all Chinese groups parade in London are organized by the consulate, and these people are got paid to do what they do.

Sun YU, Shanghai, P.R .C

I am very surprised by what you said here, cause i m one of the Pro-China student, and bought my own train ticket from Swindon to Paddington that day, just wanna Western ppl to hear a Chinese voice, instead just BBC or CNN's, after reading ur statement here, i'm shocked that my ticket was not redeemed by Chinese government!

to the author, i appreciate for your defence towards Chiense ppl, however, we don't live as u mentioned in the article totally scared , bullied or oppresed by our government, maybe there's much less showy in Chiese political stage as American election does, but believe me, the fight for getting better life and fair right is ferious but subtle. CCP is not a perfect government, same as most government around the world, but most Chinese ppl are happy with it's progress and support it.

Zhangchi, Swindon, United Kingdom

Good writing, mate! I agree with you all the way. I lived in China, myself (but ended up in Japan for ten years), and I have felt the same feelings towards how other people here in the West, and here in the UK specifically, view East Asia.

I have been watching the unfortunately sad story of the torch and have been informing my friends back in China about what is going on (CCTV only shows the good bits), and they are shocked, but still, they are angry, in an 'individual' sort of way.

Some of these friends are angry with the West, some are angry with the Overseas-Chinese who joined the protests - making things worse by promoting their own agenda while the Police could have done it much more effectively without them. Some are angry because they feel that China has become a puppet for some higher agenda. All of these people have their own individual views, and none of them got them from CCTV.

KageTora, Liverpool, UK

It is apparent from what happened to the Olympic torch relay in London and Paris that in the West there is an anti-China undercurrent consisting essentially of racism/white supramacy, ignorance and worries over an emerging power that could spell the end of century-long privileges the West has enjoyed. I suspect that Tibet is nly one of many sticks the West can use to beat up China. However, by denigrating the games and degracing the entire Chinese nation, the West helps to create extreme nationalism and strong anti-west sentimentality in China, which could lead to the birth of an awesome martial power the world has not seen since Genkis Kan. In the last decade, China has been trying to embrace the world. It pains to see that instead of taking China's hands, the West ends up slapping on her face. Can we really say that a civilization so eager to make enemies instead of friends is really civilized?

Zeng, Mitcham, UK/Surrey

It is sad when CHINESE feel that ECONOMIC progress means live is all good. I do not feel that all the economic progress and improvement in standard of living has anything to do with political rights and freedom. I do not care about economic viability to quell political viability.

So I feel that CHINESE people are as worst as their government. Giving up on freedom for economic security, you sell out, that is what happens when a country is ruled 2000 years of emperors and now Oligarchic socialism. China is not a communist country, for true communism eliminates all higher authority and makes residence responsible for their communities well being.

It is sad that even WESTERN CITIZENS care about economic progress more so then POLITICAL PROGRESS. Just look at AMERICAN political participation rates throughout that last 50 years and how politically knowledgeable they are. More vote on economic issues then on relevant political issues. Freedom and not the dollar should reign.

Naleen, Northern California,

Well, I picked out 90% of the posting's from the US just by picking out every rant against communism! It's quite clear where the meat of their real argument lies, I suspect that they don't care all that much about the human rights but about this evil lefty state! Personally I find that I can simply no longer support this nirvana we call democracy, I couldn't be robbed more by any other form of government and at the moment will probably vote BNP or not at all. If China wants to drag this backwards country screaming into the 21st century to benefit the greatest number - let them. But I certainly wouldn't listen to any comments from a people who activley support regime's far nastier than China - I hope you're all listening you accross the pond.

Matthew, lancashire, UK

Why everybody skim my opinion?Want to hear what I want to say?

Danny tyorn, Lasha, Tibet

I appreciate your view of separation of government and people. However, I got a feeling that all feels Chinese government is bad. This is not true. While the government still has a lot to improve, and there are many issues, we majority of Chinese now experience and believe the direction where the country is going is right, because it improves our daily life, and we feel much happier than before. This is what a government should try to do, and Chinese government is trying. They can't get to perfect in one step, but they are gradually changing and becoming better and better. About Tibet issue, westerners simply shout free tibet without trying to understand the history of Tibet. It is a complicated history issue, just like the conflicts in other western countries. Only listening to one side of the story never give you the truth. I am disgusted whenever I hear and see westerners feel so self-righteous, and simply say Chinese government oppresses Tibetans. Simply Ignorant.

lin, Berkeley, US

I keep reading Chinese people posting about western media bias and how Tibet belongs to China. I have yet to see any postings from a "Tashi in Lhasa" giving their point of view.

Mick, Sydney, Australia

If you are so ignorant about China, how could you understand Tibet in China. Most Chinese cannot speak English. It is only now that they are encouraged to do so.

What more do you expect of Tibetans when the province is so remote. Only in recent years is Tibet opened to the world. Thus only a few would be able to speak English. Have I answered your query? It is the same with a Chinese web site. Can you find a lot of responses in English?

Simple logic is it not?

Lim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

I must say that I am not communist.I visit China almost every month for last 8 years for business.I have been to most parts of China on eastern coast and met people from all walks of Life.
having said this much I must say i have to find a place where AS AN INDIAN , I would be treated as First class citizen, EXCEPT IN CHINA.Go to any western country , including US OF A. we are always looked down upon , as browns. shops, hotels, airports,trains , buses .one can feel the under current of distrust. but NOT IN CHINA.They may have their own political systems , but that does bother their own citizens, I have yet to find a Chinese who complained to me about the life in China. talking about dissidents , which country does not have?
the above piece of writing is telling the truth at many places.
PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN TO CHINA FOR LONG, HAVE TO RIGHT TO CONDEMN IT IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. go there meet then and mix with them and you will be surprised , you all pre-conceived notions disappear

valmik soni, mumbai, India

I think Mr Barnes has somewhat misjudged the situation.

S Ali, London,

"What war of aggression has the Chinese ever initiated?"

The invasion and occupation of Tibet.

Jonathan Wilton, Singapore,

While I appreciate the fact that you are trying to discuss the matter on a macro level, I suggest that you do some more research before making broad prouncements like the Chinese are 'indistinguishable one from the other'.

Research says that people of all races think that other races all look the same because their eyes focus on the greatest differences (hair, eye & nose shape) which happen to be racial in origin as opposed to seeing the finer distinctions that set us apart as individuals.

The Chinese think that Westerners all look alike because they are too busy looking at our round eyes and (for the most part) lighter and/or wavier hair to notice our different nose shapes, etc. And we all think that they look alike because we can

After having spent 8 years surrounded by Chinese faces in Hong Kong, I can tell you from experience that I have started to think that we all look alike and now appreciate the vastly different facial features of Chinese people.

Bex, Hong Kong,

This lowers the tone. I have never, in all the dozens of articles I've read over these past few weeks, heard anyone bring up race as an issue. It has never been a part of the conversation. The focus seems to have been very clearly on government policy. I've no idea why you're bringing this up now and trying to present this as a race issue.

I've lived in China for two years and have rarely heard anything more than minor criticisms from Chinese people. Of course there are many dissatisfied people but the majority seem to believe what they are told and believe that the CCP knows what's best. Most people I've met are fiercely nationalistic and on issues such as Taiwan and Tibet follow the party line with no deviation.

We should protest government decisions but also be fully aware that a huge number of Chinese back them.

Tom, Beijing, China,

James, London,
I must say the situation is not that bad.There is no mystical firewall on this website as well as cnn or bbc, I read these articles almost everyday!

ywq, nanning, PRC

I totally disagree with your initial premise in that the western world is united on belief that Tibet is oppressed, that Chinese do not respect Human Rights or that Beijing Olympics is a right and proper platform to "express reservations about the Chinese." (1) The western world is substantially ignorant about the issues relating to Tibet and knows very little about the state of human rights in China. The Olympics is a completely inappropriate platform for serious or dignified political debate. All that is ever accomplished by newscrafted demonstrations is attention grabbing and insult.
All we hear about the Chinese is that they don't respect Human Rights or intellectual property. What war of aggression has the Chinese ever initiated? Has any other Country ever voluntarily dismantled the largest naval fleet in the world? The west has "borrowed" almost every scientific advancement from paper to spagetti to gun powder from the Chinese without attribution or compensation.

John Duggan, Aurora, Illinois/USA

I keep reading Chinese people posting about western media bias and how Tibet belongs to China. I have yet to see any postings from a "Tashi in Lhasa" giving their point of view.

Mick, Sydney, Australia

Anyone with basic common sense knows that human right is nothing but a conception weapon used to attack international opposites. Carrying the flag of human rights, Americans and British people sent their sons and brothers to Iraq and Afghanistan to carry out day-to-day killing. Who cares about the human right of tens of thousands civilians killed in last five years? Hypocritically, they regarded themselves as the victims of 9.11 and London subway terrorist attacks, which obtained sympathies from Chinese people, but, sadly, they label those Tibetan rioters who killed innocent people in Lhasa as pro-human right heroes.
Everybody should know that in international level, only the National Interest counts. Clearly, Tibet issue is fundamental to the national interest of China. Nobody from exterior can change it and history will tell. Even though Chinese people are not happy in many aspects with their government, in this matter, as we have seen, they give strong support to it.

ML, Melbourne, Australia

I totally agree with your points that one should view the government and the people separately; and no matter which issue brought up, it should be based on the respect of people.
As a Chinese, I don't expect entire western society to fully understand China and Chinese people, because we are so different, but please DO respect us. Back to the torch relay, it is now not only a concern of Chinese government, also an important event for Chinese people. As a not very rich country, we are trying our best to prepare it, to welcome the entire world. However, the nasty torch grasp game insulted Olympic spirits and hurt Chinese people. Please cool down the over-heated brains!
Please don't view Chinese people as a homogenious, machine or animal-like group. Chinese people have the own opinions and judgement, even under information control, because we live on this piece of land, we know what's happening! In China the social reform always pushed by its people, not from those superior critics.

Lin Na, Beijing, China

Thinking back into the colonial past, it's the Chinese people
actually who have much to resent for yesterday's unjust treatment by world powers who occupied, and treated them
abominably in their own country. One just needs to look into any history book to confirm this fact. The Tibetans who participated in the riots were, in my opinion, badly advised by
the people who led them. Even their religious leader, the Dalai
Lama wasn't happy too about the violent turn of events and even threatened to resign if it kept on. No country in the west would ever tolerate demonstrations that run out of control - setting buildings on fire, and attacking people. Perhaps one should abolish the torch relay, since the modern version of it was devised for propaganda purposes in the 1936 Olympic Games by the unsavoury Goebbels. Or keep it
simple befitting the ritual and spirit of ancient Greece.
stopped to enable the participants from different parats of Greece to arrive safely

lena, vienna, austria

Excellent column Mr. Simon Barnes! China isn't a monolith, it's 1.3 billion individuals, many of whom still love their country though they do not agree with their government.

When you dehumanize and demonize an entire people, you can easily convince yourself to throw bottles and eggs at wheelchair-bound athletes of that group, as some of the pro-Tibet demonstrators did in Paris this week.

Jon, Chicago, Illinois, USA

I have never equated the Chinese Government clampdown on Tibet with the Chinese people. I, too, used to work with Hong Kong and still retain many good friends. (I am now retired).
The Chinese People, Chinese food, Chinese hospitality - worlds apart from some of their more unscrupulous leaders!

Georgette Behar, London NW1 , England

It's the Chinese Government that the demonstrations are about not the people, and it's about the right of a country (Tibet)to self determination without being oppressed by an imperialist neighbour which disallows free speech for it's own civilians.

The Tibetans are also Asians so I can't quite see the racist angle here!

Joe Middleton, Edinburgh, Scotland

SunYu: "I can tell you that almost all Chinese groups parade in London are organized by the consulate, and these people are got paid to do what they do. "

What a load of rubbish. If u had ever bothered to read your countrymen's 100,000 or so webblogs and bulitinboards you woul realise that this is very far from the truth. So I have to ask you - are you really who you claim to be??? The western media have managed to acheive this week what even mao and the communists have failed to do in 60years: unite >90% of ordinary chinese people behind their government !!!

Maybe you think that the Exiled Tibetan protests were 'spontaneous' ? Many so called tibetan human rights groups quoted in the news - e.g. freetibet.org - are infact well CIA funded. Many protestors have been flown around the world courtesy of the CIA this month. Who can afford to fly from europe to SanFransico on mass? I cant !

Alas we are descending into new days of "No Chinese or Dogs". The west should be ashamed.

Rob, Swansea, UK

Sun YU, Shanghai

Well done on getting through the mystical firewall! i have to say if chinese people are able to read these articles, it cant be as bad as all that... another unfounded myth.

James, London,

At last an article showing the other side. Most westerners have a simplistic view of foreign affairs adopting a herd mentality and being quick to judge. Many quote Tibet with no understanding of it's history and use it as a stick to beat China with. Tibet was nominally independant from the early 20th century to mid 20th century. A period of turmoil in China between being totally humiliated by western powers and communism establishing itself as a unifying force. Do westerners even understand communism - relating it to totalitarianism. They 2 commonly go hand in hand but not always. Educate yourself before venting your spleen on some other country and look inwards to see whether your society is any better.

wui, andover,

The protests are appropriate and not racist.

Appropriate because there is no political or cultural freedom in China, especially Tibet. It is a fact. It is also a fact that in the west people have the right to protest.

Not racist because the same protesters would also highly likely be anti-globalisiation and anti-american.

But don't worry, people won't see them on TV in China, so its off the agenda. The debate is only among ourselves in the west.

AJ, Hong Kong,

I feel I am qualified to opine on Asians and westerners being Chinese (not from China), western educated, living & working in the west for 25 years. Take my word westerners can initially also seem to look alike too. There is no justification for stereotyping and labelling the Chinese derisively eg Sebastian Coe describing the Chinese officials guarding the Olympic flame: “They are horrible. They do not speak English … I think they were thugs.” So if I do not speak English, am young, fit therefore I am a thug? Perhaps he was bumped into by them or he was not able to get across what he wanted – who knows. Well for those Chinamen daring to touch a Lord of the realm (?) and hence his comments? My reply to LORD Coe - get real and come down to earth mate!. The situation is already complicated and inflamed enough without more stupid comments by small minded people.

Richard Tan, Melbourne, Australia

This is a very good article. I have also suffered ignorant Americans in bars banging on about affairs in Ireland of which they know nothing, and it is useful to bear in mind our reaction to that sort of thing when considering the reaction of any Chinese to foreign criticism over Tibet.

Then of course it is terribly depressing to read stupid comments such as that posted by "Kaven, from Fuzhou, below.

"i have no patience to read this long article.but ihave to say many media in western countries lose their professionnal ehnics in reporting china .....
kaven, fuzhou, china"

He can't be bothered to read the article but won't allow that to hold him back from commenting, ignorantly, on it.
Happily the majority of Chinese are the same as the majority of Britons. They are reasonable and measured, and given respect will return respect.

Jonathan Wilton, Singapore,

Usually you boycott my postings however I feel compelled once again to come to China's defense. Democracy is totally over rated and would not work in a Chinese context. Look at recent elections in Zimbabwe < Ethiopia Mexico Ukraine, Hungary Armenia, Georgia etc etc etc. Even reasonably peaceful ones like Korea's elections only had a 46% turnout. China is a free market system with good private freedoms and people are better informed than the hawks in the West would suggest. I live here. I know. it is a canard to talk about 'communism' etc. In fact No country on earth has made more progress than China and yet it continues to suffer under the most blatantly racist attacks. under the guise of Free Tibet the latset fashionable cause for our ragtag collection of neo cons and new age herbalists. It is grossly insulting to use the occasion of the Olympics to attack a country's national sovereignty for Tibet is De facto and De jure part of modern China. Those who have lived in China like it

Paul Taylor, London/Shen Zhen, China

This is a very good article that leads me on to think about the media's role in shaping our wider perception of races/nations and their actions. To my mind the Chinese presence in Tibet is no different to the British presence in Ireland from the Plantation of Ulster onwards...yet one people seem to be portrayed as cruel and shifty and the other as a bastion of fair play and decency.
Let us imagine a hypothetical future where the people of Tibet possess a nation of their own. Eager to repossess what was once theirs, the native Tibetans use force to drive the Han Chinese settlers from land that was once theirs. Would this be justified? Could we understand such anger? How would the media portray this? My hunch is that it would be reported in far softer tones than, for example, the land repossessions in Zimbabwe.
The fact is that all peoples possess the capacity for cruelty. Alas, we are only willing to see this where we see fit. The media's role is huge in shaping perception.

Mick, Cork, Ireland

When criticising a government, in this case, The Communist Chinese one, it is important to remember the point of your criticism and refrain from confusing nation with government.

The only valid reason to criticise the Chinese government on the subject of human rights, is that you think that those under their control are deserving of better (Chinese, Tibetan, whatever).

When criticism cross into Xenophobia, which they sometimes do, they also cross into the realm of the surreal. If you don't like Chinese People, why should you care about their human rights?

In this case, both sides have to some extent conflagrated nation and government, though the Chinese Government is of course doing it on purpose.

As an offside to Kaven, the blue suited guys behaved like thugs, so what should we call them?

Serf, Istanbul,

Stop oppressing me, stop it!

Jason, Ireland,

RHE, NJ, USA
i can not agree with you
i'm a Chinese ! Chinese Communist Party has no problem .
the problem is that you don't know the truth ! the dalailama just like the terrorists of 9/11. the killed many innocent people even children! they are Inhuman!! ! if the goverment wasn't stop the terrorists,they must killed more innocent people ,destroyed
more things the can see!

yeon, changsha, China

Ignorance leads to radical believes. wish less people are like RHE.

Sherry, Reading, Aussie expat

I have to say the author makes sweeping generalisations about how Westerners may think of China and the Chinese... he is treating us like a homogemous group rather than individuals (ring any bells?). I have never heard of a government without the apparatus that the Chinese government are accused of having. In the West the attempts to control the people are perhaps more subtle. I am no friend of Human Rights abuses but the fact is that Tibet was a brutal fuedal system and now has more hospitals and schools than ever before. The Dalai Lama and his supporters receive money and other aid from the CIA and so cannot be called apolitical. The Democratic politics of the West can be a sham (re Bush's last election), which makes it hard for us to throw stones... The Chinese people I met there were just like me- er, human- with the same needs and desires of all humans. Maybe in time their govt. will become less hard-line than it is now.. that's what usually happens...

eric mccleave, paris, france

Well Kaven - its a shame you didnt read it because you ve complelty ruined the whole point of the articlw with that statement mate...

Ddraver, Llandudno,

The Chinese people have unfortunately become sheer materialists: driven by nationalist ideology what they stand for is nothing better than pushing their own pride onto the international arena, ironically using the Olympic Games which is about as far removed from Chinese totalitarian culture as you could want. It is not their fault, they have been brainwashed by the Communist Party - they know no better; Chinese people in Taiwan and overseas often do. The true roots of Chinese culture are not just Confucian but Buddhist which is why when they crush the living embodiment of true Mahayana Buddhism in Tibet they are destroying their own credibility on a far deeper level. After these "Olympics" (remember the East Germans?) most Westerners and freedom-loving people will respect Chinese power all right, but despise the political and moral values that have established it.

Len angel , nelson, nz

Given Rousseau's views on the social contract it is often hard to disentangle where the government ends and the people begin. If the people of the Chinese Republic (lets not get them confused with the many Chinese in the rest of the World) do not support their government's stance on the government of Tibet then why does there not appear to be more support for the protests from within China.

I know that the Chinese state suppresses the media and would look to suppress widespread support, but from all media accounts (here in Singapore) the Chinese do not appreciate the attacks on the flame and feel them misguided.

Having lived in both Hong Kong and Singapore, I feel very at home with Chinese sentiments for law and order, and also their sense of community and work ethic. Under colonial rule (and under Western prinicipals of business and freedom) these two predominantly Chinese communities have thrived. If only China embraced these the focus of the world might be very different.

Duncan, Singapore, Singapore

Wow i didnt actually realise thats how i felt and why i felt like that! I actually feel ashamed. Bit of an eye-opener that. Especially that part about not knowing where they lie, as in good or bad, cold war style, and being suspicious of them for that. Thanks, great piece.

Ross, Liverpool, UK

i have no patience to read this long article.but ihave to say many media in western countries lose their professionnal ehnics in reporting china such as they call the blue-suit guys as 'thug''' and call chinnese people 'heck'.media must tell the truth,i'm so dispointed at western so-called huaman rights. you guys use double standard in evaluating human rights.

kaven, fuzhou, china

That is the most rational article ive read on the topic in a long while. The people of China and my current experience living here tells me the people have a huge curiousity of the West, often refer to England or the U.S as great countries...i must say it leaves me slightly puzzled due to our own faults...
Yet there is so much they love even with what little they know.
I have found the people to be extremely kind, giving, accomodating even when its unecessary...i could go on
I abhor the current slandering of China becuase it smacks of hypocrisy.
No country is pefect but our protestors in the West have literally sabotaged what is meant to be a torch relay. Wrestling innocent athletes to the ground in the name of human rights, this is not legal and you ignore the human right of the person carrying the torch when doing so. So I certainly applaud this article for showing signs that rational people still exist. Many who have commented also, shame this does not represent the majority.

ryan, london, china

When youattack Chinese people crazy , China has improvedconstantly , every day, every hour, China is making progress.
In the 5000 years history ,our culture and ideology is entirely different with British. Chinese welcome the British visit and understand today's China and China in the past.
Our Chinese people love peace, because our traditional and ancient philosophy.
When you use the language of vicious attack us, your hurt the feelings of our Chinese people. the Chinese people think that the British are friendly, but comments from the British media, our imagination is wrong, your article full of prejudice and lies, full of offensive.
Welcome to China to visit.welcome to xizang(Tibet), the xizang's tourism development in recent years has been extremely good. Facts speak louder than words

nice, Beijing, China

Nice article, pity it's based upon a false premise, who told you that "we" lump the people of China in with their government ?. You appear to be just another media person with your own version of reality, which I naturally reject.

John Jobling, Melrose,

Good point - as a British born Chinese, I have personally experienced the tensions in culture, and as much as 'complete' westerners do not want to admit it, there is an undertone of racism here, because the way that the Chinese do things is not familiar on many levels, and if they are not fascinated by it, they instinctively reject it. There is a lot of bandwagon jumping going on, and I'm not sure why RHE thinks that the western media is a paragon of truth, as there is an inevitable bias in reporting. In many ways, it seems to me that the boom in China is much like the industrial revolution in the West, and there sure as hell wasn't much talk of human rights then...it's only now that we can judge while sitting in our positions of relative comfort.

g, London,

Great article. Most people in China live relatively carefree lives, no matter whether they work in the city or in a farm. If so, why would they criticise the government?

It's been like this for years, even during the dynasties. Chinese people are essentially apathetic towards their government. It's only when things go so bad to the point of no return (such as famines and the like) that people rise up and overthrow the Emperor, creating a new dynasty. But then, nothing in the government's changed.

With a membership of 73.4 million (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China), I'd say many people do love the government in China, yet the majority just doesn't care what they do unless it affects their livelihoods.

Also, the human rights problem in China is likely to be caused by Chinese values, which value stablity and harmony in the society at the expense of the rights of the individual. So, let's hope the Westerners won't just force their values down their throats.

Alasdair, London,

Simon, thank you so much for writing the first decent piece of commentary I have seen on this matter. I personally hold the opinion that self-determination for a people within practical limits (I can't declare a country around my feet) is a demonstratably higher form of governance than any other model the world has yet witnessed. Nevertheless the current sniping backwards and forth which shows a complete ignorance of the other sides perspective (talk of Chinese genocides or Western imperialism) for the last 4 weeks has truely been energy-sappingly depressing. I only wish more Chinese people were directed to read this kind of article rather than some piece of bad editing posted on anti-CNN.com.

If I see you here during the Olympics then I'll buy you a beer.

David Williams, Beijing, China

Well said Simon,well said. Thank you for making this point-very important article.

arthur mumelo, Nanjing, China

Hi RHE

Have you been China before? How much do you know about Chinese people? Actually your knowledge of Chinese is totally wrong. I suggest you:

1. Please do some study of Chinese history especially between year 1800 to 1900, then you will know what western did in China and what kind of human rights they gave to the Chinese people!

2. Go to China to see a real China, to know the real life there and to communicate with Chinese people.

3. Then make your comments

eric, Ottawa, Canada

Maybe china government has some problems on the issue of human right, but as a Chinese citizen, I believe my life is better than you western imagined. We watch the western just as you do. We have different culture. Learning and better understand each others is the only way to solve the problem of culture conflict.

sean wang, changsha, china

This is the first article I have come across amidst the reams of commentary on china and it's human rights record that has got to the heart of much of the recent, and indeed historical, criticism of China; an inherent racism towards the Chinese people. For various reasons while it has rightly become unacceptable to vilify other minority groups in Britain (such as the Pakistani, Indian and West Indian communities) there remains a pervasive racism towards the Chinese. Anyone who has spent any time in China will affirm that the Chinese are a thoughtful, generous and polite people with a respect and curiosity towards the west that shames our inherent suspicion of their own culture. Mr Barnes is surely right when he calls for those who attack China to reassess the source of their vitriol.

Peter Headden, Bejing, China

Is China's treatment of Tibet comparable to England's treatment of Scotland?

Bill Adams, London, UK

That's excellent, I'm totally agree with that.

As one of the 1.3 billion, I must say that most Chinese people don't like the goverment and the CCP. They just as the same as you,"most Chinese people wish to live happy, peaceful and fulfilling lives, to look after their families, to get enough to eat and to get a kick out of life. "

I can tell you that almost all Chinese groups parade in London are organized by the consulate, and these people are got paid to do what they do.

Free speech is also what we people is pursuing.

Thanks for all your understanding.

A friendly Chinese

Sun YU, Shanghai, P.R .C

Just to add: the fact that the word Chinese can mean several things - the country (history, culture), its people (citizens of China inc. the ethnic minorities), the Government, and/or the race (add another 100 million people, many of which have no affiliation with China and are even serving their country's armed forces) doesn't help... so whenever the Western media makes an attack on the Chinese, it sounds like an attack on the people/race more than the Government.

Jeff, Manchester, UK

I agree with much of what you've said. My family has lived in Hong Kong for the last 18 years and so I have quite a lot of experience of Chinese culture. Chinese people are no more all the same than Europeans, and we all know how whingy French people are, how slick Italian's are and how un-funny the German's are. However much sympathy we have for the people of Tibet and how horrifically they have been treated violent protest against violence really is unbelievably stupid. The Chinese government has changed and is continuing to do so, opening up to the west and hosting the olympics is all part of that. They will be unlkely to take human rights advice from nations that have invaded another with a death toll of thousands and rising simply because they didn't like the president's moustache (or WMDs, I can never remember which it was). Free peaceful protest is the right thing to do but as you have said we need to be very careful not to be racist.

Jamie Andrews, Sydney, Australia

How insulting, that you should assume that so many people are racist against the Chinese. I daresay most people, just like Hong Kong not long ago, are upset about the brutal crushing of Tibet's culture and people, not the bloodlines of the Chinese (who are really many different ethnic groups, not one homogeneous mass). I admire the strength and intelligence displayed by so many Chinese people, and hope that they find freedom soon, along with the millions of others in Asia who have been imprisoned in the velvet bars of communism.

kywrite, Honolulu, HI

The problem is the Chinese Communist Party...not the Chinese people.

The Chinese people are every bit as much victims of the Chinese Communist Party as the Tibetan people.

They are fed lies from birth, are prevented from hearing the truth (with absolute blocking of foreign news and opinion sites on PCs used by Chinese citizens...even as those same sites are unblocked on PCs in tourist hotel rooms), and are prevented from speaking their minds.

Extinguish the torch.

Obstruct the Olympics.

Expose Chinese Communist Party lies.

End Chinese Communist Party misrule.

Free Tibet.

RHE, NJ, USA