Download 'Too Hot', an exclusive Specials track from iTunes
Andrew Flintoff has been sacked as England vice captain after his late night drinking on Friday night. Duncan Fletcher, the coach, insisted, however, that the Lancashire all-rounder would remain with the squad for the remainder of the World Cup and be considered for selection for England's next game, against Kenya on Saturday.
This is not the first time Flintoff has been warned for a breach of discipline so is the punishment harsh enough? Should Flintoff have been sent home in disgrace? Has Fletcher taken the easy option, knowing that sending home his best player would almost certainly ensure England could not win the tournament?
Or have the England management got it right? Is a one-game ban, a fine and the loss of the vice-captaincy enough to send out a message to the rest of the squad?
Whatever your thoughts, post them in the comments box below.
Win a luxury weekend to Newcastle and its neighbour Gateshead, find out more here
Risk, resilience and embracing new technology
Industry sectors news at a glance. Interactive heatmap, video and podcast
Discover the power of collective thinking. Submit a solution and be in with a chance to win a Media Hub Home Entertainment System
The inside track on current trends in the charity, not for profit and social enterprise sectors
Everything the Business Traveller needs to know to make a better trip
Make the most of the summer and enter our fabulous photographic competition, you could win a £5000 holiday
Corsica is an island of beauty and contrast, an ideal holiday destination
Enjoy further reading from Travel to Fashion, Business to Sport, discover more
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles
The clever way to lease a new car is with Car leasing made simple™
2009
per month on 36-month
Personal Contract Hire (PCH)
2008
42850
Car Insurance
£24,250 - £30,346
MI5
London
£60,000
The Environment Agency
Bristol
Up to £90K
Boots
Midlands
OTE £85k
Credit Protection Association
Nationwide Opportunities
Completely London
Luxury Condo's in Manhattan with NYC views
The best new homes in Wimbledon?
Nationwide
Fabulous Cruise And Cruise & Stay Offers Including Virgin Atlantic Flights Prices Start From Only £699pp!
Last Minute Cruise And Cruise & Stay Offers. Med From £499pp, Caribbean From £699pp!
5 star quality at a 3 star price.
8 fabulous Canadian cities ...you won’t find cheaper
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times, or place your advertisement.
Times Online Services: Dating | Jobs | Property Search | Used Cars | Holidays | Births, Marriages, Deaths | Subscriptions | E-paper
News International associated websites: Globrix Property Search | Property Finder | Milkround
Copyright 2009 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
I am really not surprised that the "leave him alone" brigade have piped up in defence of Andrew Flintoff. After all, if we don't let players drink themselves stupid, where will all the anecdotes and tales of legendary drinking binges followed by match winning performance come from?
I don't care if Flintoff has the constitution of an iron elephant, he more than anyone else has sat back and reveled in the glory of ONE series victory over Australia and not pulled his considerable weight since. Given responsibility, he has bowled within himself, batted like Jason Gallian and drank himself stupid. Thank god for Michael Vaughn.
He should be sent home, and the idiots who condone his behaviour served with gagging orders.
Matt, London,
I personally think that Englands chances of winning the world cup over a percentage are pretty low. They have now faced a blow over the Freddie Flintoff incident. This matter is really hard for a conclusion to be made, on whether he should remain in the squad. Given the chance to stay in Jamaica shows the qualities that he has, and now has to prove to fans and team mates what he is capable of doing best on the pitch. He should concentrate on his cricket and leave this matter aside and should the players and fans back him up this will be shown of saturdays encounter against Kenya, which is a must win situation best of luck to Freddie and the England camp.
Nohman Mirza, Bradford, England
Its only a sport. Of course he shouldnt be sent home.
Can a fellow not have a few drinks anymore?
Terry Mills, London, UK
Oh come on! nothing has changed in the last thirty years of cricket with respect to having a good time. the only thing that has changed is the media making a big deal out of everything because they are bored. He is still a world class player and a key part of english cricket. I bet the same amount of 'fun' is the same in most sports (maybe not football) but it just isnt reported. What matters is how he plays, if his drinking is actually affecting his game then he should be replaced by someone better, but not until then. Ther only problem here is the busy-bodies at home who are just jealous, and want some thing to complain about.
Tom Baker, Nottingham,
Charlie (Hong Kong) I am also an ex-pat, but with a somewhat different view on this matter. "Players are no different today than 10, 20, 30 or more years ago" but the game certainly is. Glen McGrath said after the Aussies had won the Ashes that he had been totally focused on getting the urn back - to the extent that it was his first thought every morning and last thought every night for 2 years. That's commitment and that is what is required in 2007 to win a major sporting event. In the 1970s Wales were winning Grand Slams with Dustmen, Sales Reps and Doctors playing together and drinking like crazy together. Todays prop can match most backs from those golden days over 100 meters and that is the difference.
If a professional sportsman (or woman) wants to succeed at the top, they have to make sacrifices. When England return to the island with the World Cup in their hands, Freddy and his mates can drink themselves stupid in celebration, but not until then.
Greg, Kuwait,
yes he should be sent home, he has let evryone down and now it comes out about similar happenings in the ashes in aussie it is plain that he has not taken his cricket seriously and has lead others in the team astray, he is trying to be like botham maybe? no-one can ever be another botham.yes he should be treated like any other miscreant who falls down on his job through drink.the middle of a world cup is not the time for sympathy and understanding the reast of the team must knuckle down and play to win.
WILLIAM BEEBY, dover, england
No doubt about it. He should be sent home - preferably as a stoker on a stinking old fishing boat! It's a sick joke that an English professional international captain can go out on the booze whilst representing his country. We have a real drinking culture in Britain which does us no good and the sooner we re-educate ourselves the better. But you and I know it willl never happen!
Knappers, Gloucester, United Kingdom
To everyone saying "Leave Freddie alone" and "Give the man a break" may I divert your attention down under to a little issue currently being played out in the media in regards to a football player and alleged substance abuse.
The more we say it's ok for these guys to carry on like pork chops the worse they get. I applaud the ECB for doing what they did: a suspension covering a "dead rubber" and losing a title that really doesn't mean much anyway, at least sends out a message. A fine which might look big to you and me is nothing to someone raking in as many zeros as Freddie.
If this is a repeat offence, action, harder thqan a slap ont he wrist, needs to be taken.
Tails, Richmond, Vic, Australia
As an expat who has lived outside Britain for the past 20 years, I am astounded to hear words like 'shame' used in conjunction with Flintoff. What has happened to my homeland - is everyone so politically correct that people must be hounded for having one drink too many. Players are no different today than 10, 20, 30 or more years ago. What has changed is the insidious nature of the media which cannot control the cancer within itself. This in turn has turned the British public into a shower of weaklings who are so scared of their own shadows, that even the most minor misdemeanour is now viewed as a major crime against society. Finally, can we once and for all dedbunk this ridiculous role-model myth. This is merely a handy tool used by ineffective teachers, irresponsible parents, incompetent 'coppers' and wily politicians to pass the buck. Freddie had a few beers and got drunk while on tour in the West Indies - what the hell do you expect?
Charlie, Hong Kong, Hong Kong
If it's true that he was spoken to several times about his behaviour while on tour in Australia, then maybe sending him home would be the only way to make him realise that, in the final analysis, no one is bigger than the game itself.
Mark, Chelmsford,
Flintoff is a role model to young kids aspiring to do well in sport; it's completely outrageous not to deal with this more severely; the best teams and sports people in the world have more discipline than that and certainly more pride and loyalty. I'm no cricketing genius but didn't he just lead us to a 5-0 thrashing in the Ashes? Anyone of his blinded supporters wondered why? Playing cricket for the country is a job; most people would be fired for such behaviour especially if it's a recurring pattern. He'll have to be truly down and out if he is to face his alcoholism, we'd be doing him and the country a favour.
Morgan Donovan, London,
What is all this fuss about. Some adult men out having a laugh! Ok maybe not before a match. As for the question should Freddie be sent home? We have little enough hope of winning the world cup without sending home one of our key players. Give the man a break!
Richie Taylor, Sunderland, England
As a role model to kids and the nation he should conduct him self better. I do not expect better anyway, that's the culture that's destroying this wonderful country. As an west Indian myself its a shame to see such a wonderful county drown in booze, and destroy youths today.
And they wonder why kids as young as 12 want to start drink, if they see their role models drunk like a bat, what you think they are going to do??
andrew, london,
Ivor, the first time you admitted im sure you got a round of applause so why keep telling us???? You must clearly know Freddie very well to be able to say he is obviously an alcoholic.
We all believe we know him very well when we dont. If i had of won the ashes in the way he did, i for one would of been drinking all night and for the next week or so actually, and i bet i'm in the majority to say that most people drink too much but to say it is a problem is pathetic.
The punishment is perfect. Leave him alone. We are all forgetting he wasn't the only one out drinking but because he has the biggest profile he is picked on more.
Lee, scunthorpe,
What a furore over nothing! The world and his wife knows that Freddie loves a drink along with most other men of his age and background. If England had beaten New Zealand instead of losing the press would all be patting him on the back and saying what a great 'bloke' he was. Make your mind up.
Lloyd Dugatron, Jarrow, England
Yes he had a drink.... yes he was out of order... but we need people like Freddie to keep us interested. He wont be the first and lets face it he's in good company... Botham, Best, Gazza all fantastic sportsmen and we are all the better for seeing them on the field of play, So come on, leave him alone, he'll be upset enough as it is and lets really worry about other more important things that are going on in the world that are worthy of front page news !!
Heather Rigby, Oldham, England
Give him a break! The team had lost a match they needed to win and performed badly. Many professional and amateur sportsmen have been in that situation and responded in a similar vein. The only place to judge him is on the field.
On that score, probably the best thing to come out of this is that Freddie won't have to worry about being captain or vice captain for a while. As an all rounder you have enough to worry about without having to marshall the troops as well. Sean Pollock's performances suffered while he was captain of SA, and Freddie's performances in the Ashes were not up to scratch.
Let him express himself on and off the pitch (and remind him that Callum of Leicester and other youngsters regard him as a hero). Freddie can work out the rest.
Les, Lavedon, United Kingdom
how could you consider sending home freddy so what he had a drink who has'nt as a nation we are always looking for someone to blame for our mediocre performances well i would suggest looking at the poor players in the set up and not the best player we have had in years freddy is the best in the squad even when he is buckled leave him alone and concentrate on impotant things like perhaps winning heaven forbid
robert yeomans, shrewsbury, shropshire
Being one myself, Flintoff shows all the signs of being an alcohoic. I thought this after the Ashes and reading between the lines of comments from fellow players and pundits it is obviously true. The man needs help now. Sending him home in discrace is not the best way tp preserve the great sportsman that is Freedie.
Ivor Kemp, Poole,
hey! those pedalos are a bugger! especially upside down.
Now Fred can storm back and drag this mediocre team up
and onwards.......
I'm not surprised that Botham - the only other Englishman
to rise into the stratosphere (cricketing-wise) in the last 25
years - is the only one to defend him.
I think Vaughan would benefit from a cocktail or two....
Simon Eagar, Carmel, Ca
Flintoff is a good player but it is not essential to have him in the England squad because England can win without hin. England won the game against Canada and proved they do not need Flintoff to win a match. I htink Flintoff should be sent home because he has acted discracefully letting the country down by attracting bad publicity. if he is not punished properly he will no doubt do it again he should be made a example of so other players know that if they do anything wrong they will be punished. this matter should not be taken lightly.
rani ahmed, gillingham/ kent, england
I thought Flintoff really let himself, his family and the team down when he was filmed staggering around while celebrating the ashes victory . This was broadcast to billions around the world and here he is again in 2007 back in the news excentuating the problem of British drinking culture to the entIre world at the World Cup. He does not deserve to be placed in a leadership role in the team of a major cricketing nation. The irony is that England need his considerable cricketing talent if they have any chance of winning the world cup, so from that perspective he has to remain in the West Indies. Under any other circumstances he should have been back on the next plane home where he could continue to drown his sorrows.
TIM MERTENS, Cape Town , South Africa.
I am a big fan of Flintoff's but I think his behaviour on this occasion was immature and boorish. I remember telling my 18 year old nephew the night before he was going away for the first time on holiday with mates to stay away from water, particularly if he had drink taken. Every year there are accidents involving drunken young men who are so hyped with beer and camaraderie and the need to impress their mates that they think they are Captain Marvel and unfortunately they turn out to be very mortal kids.
Flintoff should be past that stage by now. Grow up Freddie!
Anne Hughes, Eastbourne, UK
Appalling behaviour. Dreadful example to team-mates and naive supporters. Send him home. Should have been sent home from OZ after too much drinking. His form has been appalling. Change management of team too. Weak.
ernie cochrane, gerrards cross,
To Mucha, Norwich. He's not the world's best all rounder. That position belongs to Shaun Pollock in the One Day game and Jaques Kallis in Tests.
If I was in the Caribbean with my mates, you're right, I'd want to party. The thing is, I'm not being paid millions to represent my country to the world.
Andrew Lees, Jaipur, India
Give him help for God's sake. It is patently obvious to anyone who is an alcoholic, and I am one, that he has a serious problem. It was clear from the Ashes celebrations he had, and it has been allowed to continue unchecked. Sending him home will just make his problem worse and we will lose a great cricketer. Get him to admit the problem and seek help NOW!
Ivor Kemp, Poole,
I don't condone drinking by athltes especially by guys like Flintoff. But they do drink alot in Lancashire.Its in their blood. So let Flintoff stay for the world cup.
tara chopra, delhi, india
I could accept the issue if it was celabratory but to do this to drown your sorrows striked me as problem and not only with drink send him home and sack him as we know this is not the first time
Glynn, Cornwall, uk
In the carribean with all your team mates, and you wouldn't wat to party?!!??
Fair enough give him a fine and strip him of his captains honour( he should never be a captian, he is the world best all rounder not a captain!) To send him home would be wrong. He wouldn't infect the whole of our team as they all have choices and just because he let his hairdown in an other wise glittering career you all attack him. The fact that this country is so obsessed with critisiing our sportsmen drunk or not is a shame. Worse still is we are happy that we can waste 9 billion pounds on sports when we really don't need to, but one player gets drunk and it's the end of the world, warne was a boozer and smoker, and it never ruined his bowling career did it!!
Mucha, Norwich,
I think the punishment is just about right; it actually seemed a little harsh until I heard that this wasn't the first such incident in recent months. Stripping him of the vice captaincy was the right thing to do as he sets an example to the rest of the team, but any more than that would be punishing the team and supporters as a whole, as our (very slim) chance of winning the WC would be gone entirely! He should have acted more responsibly (and less publicly), but at the end of the day, a 29 year old man getting drunk is hardly the end of the world is it....?
James McQuaid, Stoke-on-Trent, England
This is nothing new. Not that I agree with the behavour. It has been said that Cowdrey once turned up to play at Lord just before the game, still in his DJ.from the night before.
Simon Coan, Battersea,
If only this had happened before the Ashes. At least now we can be spared Freddie as Vaughan's stand-in. Sending him home would be a perverse decision.
MickJ, London,
I think people seem to be over reacting somewhat.
Flintoff is one of our best performers and so what if he had a few beers while on tour in Barbados 2 nights before a match, it wasn't as if it was the night before, as has been witnessed in the past. He probably would have done a better job than some of the guys playing had he been allowed to play.
I found it quite amusing that he fell off his pedelo though....
People should get off their high horses and just let the guy play.
John Ward, Birmingham,
Even if having too much to drink and nearly drowning is OK on holiday how can it be laughed off in this case, in this indulgent "boys will be boys" way? It's not a bit of harmless fun, but rather a statement that binge drinking is OK for sports celebrities. Like it or not, sports stars are role models as well as professional entertainers. Sport is keen to clean up its act on drug abuse, but is ambiguous and fails to come down hard on alcohol abuse. No matter how "hard" Flintoff's head is, it's impossible to abuse alcohol and be in top shape. Sports administrators should stop trying to please and appease and should ban alcohol during competitions and test for it, on the grounds that it is a deterrent to top performance. Flintoff should be sent home and cricket should wake up and get serious about alcohol abuse - for England's success and as a contribution to the health of our young people.
Paul Savage, Cambridge, UK
The England cricket team were over feted after the Ashes in 2005 and perhaps some of their players have started to believe their own propaganda? Certainly Flintoff obviously felt that he was untouchable - and to be fair to him he's probably right as the feeble punishment given to him would confirm. He should have been made an example of and sent home in order to send the right signals to other players, both present and future.
Dave Sommerville, Haverfordwest, Wales
Flintoff is essentially a big kid in a man's body,he should never have been England Captain,he is not a man manager.Having said that,England need his cricketing skills desperately. So he should stay.For now.
Michael Rigby, Chorley, England
He was Vice Captain (former Captain) paid very well, given the best coaching; the Nation has given him a gong. Then he throws all this in the supporter faces (many having spent thousands of pound) to watch the England team. The rependant drunk is hard to believe - better back home in a clink seeking help rather than infecting the rest of the team.
John Trafford, Potters Bar, Hertfordshire
No I believe the punishment is right for Flintoff, but I do not believe he should be send home.
There have been many transgressions in cricket over the years, a few beers and a bit of play acting is hardly the most serious of these.
Victor Isaacs, Bury, Lancashire