Oh well, it's nice to see how many people were desperate to see italy finally losing a game. How sad is that!!!! Anyway, none of the italian players nor the national press made a huge deal out of the first goal. We lost, that's it, we move on to win nxt 2 matches and to win the cup. C'mon England :P

Anto, Krakow, Poland

even if Panucci would have ended up in the crowd, he would be onside. Even if he would have sat himself down with his family on the stands behind the goal, he would be actively onside. That is the rule, injured or not. The sidelines don't excist in this case.

arthur , berlin, germany.

Wasn't the Holland of old they were playing counter-attacking football.
Don't think the goal was in the spirit of the reg as it was not deliberate.
Holland deserved to win they were best team.
More args in Eng press than Ital. Holland would have won without it.

Times is English

Terry, London,

Was totally surprised by the excellent performance off all Dutch players! Was a long time ago they played so well on all frontlines, especially defense (which is seen as weak) that gave no chances to the Italians. 3-0 well deserved,but still a long way to go.Best game sofar at EC2008...

Marc, Waalwijk, The Netherlands

It is a pity that the writer of this article moans more about the first goal then on the beauty of this match which was clearly an advertisement for the game itself. Exactly as the days when English teams were playing with mainly English players. Sportive,fast and positive.

Erik de Vlieger, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

The referee was definitely wrong, but Italy played the worst match in the last 12 years, as Buffon said. Italian defense without Cannavaro and Nesta is totally useless. Donadoni is the worst coach I've ever seen. Azzurri forget Berlin and let's go home.

pierluigi, Napoli, Italy

Doctor Mick spot on. The rule was changed for this specific reason. He collided with his own player and he required no treatment either. You are not allowed to leave the field of play without the refs permission, hence Panucci was an active player.

Shane Milligan, Belfast, N Ireland

PS. There is a simple solution to all this which you could champion Mr Samuels. Get rid of the offside law. As you rightly say it is confusing and leads to many incorrect decisions. It would also free up the linesmen to concentrate on other more heinous fouls such as greco wrestling at corners.

Jem, Littlehampton,

Why on Earth don't people read the rules? It's a semantic problem because Law 11 offside (infringements) says" If a defending player STEPS behind his own goal line ...". But in this particular case the player was pushed (even if it was done by his goal keeper). The rules must be improved. OFFSIDE.

Gerd Schmidt, Munich, Germany

Coaches would definitely tell their players to go down to the ground if an injury would make the situation ok. If panucci would defend the goalline and see Van nistelrooy in offside position he would simply step out and go to the ground. Players would imply these tactics and other variations.

arthur , berlin, germany.

That questionable goal was not so decisive at all. Holland was totally overwhelming Italy, so goals were inevitable anyway. Van Nistelrooy might also have been awarded with a penalty before that certain goal, as he was touched by Buffon which made him stumble, taking away a good opportunity.

Bob Deswart, Lincoln,

The Times is rather ungracious. It spends 75% off the article on the offside element ignoring the fact that it was a great game (as agreed by most analysts). The Netherlands raised their game and managed to beat Italy. I think we (The Dutch) deserve a compliment rather then a whine.

Erik, London,

Try as I might, I can't summon empathy for the side that did not score.

John Thompson, Alexandria, Virginia, USA

Why should the attacking team be penalised for the bad luck of a defender? It's like the idiocy of teams feeling obliged to put the ball out of play while an opposition player writhes in "agony", only to leap to his feet when he realises the danger has been averted. Seems pretty sensible to me.

al, london,

What are you yelling about? Da ref made a correct decision, and in accordance with da rules. Sour because england was put out of da championship? hope england never returns in any of EC or WC.

Snorre Sturlasson, Reykavik, Iceland

Had he been rolling around on the field of play he would have been playing Van Nistelrooy onside. If behind the goal line rules him onside, it doesn't matter whether he is prone of vertical. There ius no rule about interfering with play dor defenders.

Terry Hamblin, Bournemouth,

Holland played better. Italy had also bad luck, but in the end, it doesn't matter. Anyway Italians are the World Champs and still one of the World's best teams. if the coach realizes he has to play with his best men (De Rossi, Grosso, Cassano, Chiellini, Del Piero),there won't be too many troubles.

matteo, trieste, Italy

The Dutch were better team players and the Italians were clumsy panicky players. This are the reasons that Holland won with justification. Hup Holland Hup!

Tom Krosing, Wembley, UK

Congratulations to Holland, they completely outplayed and humled us. We were not good enough, too old, too arrogant. We lost it after the first goal (when Zizou scored for France Lippi immediately called for calm, Donadoni should learn!) All the other goals were fully deserved! Hope H wins it now

Roberto Bumbalo, London, UK

At the end of the day the Ref was deemed correct and despite all the debate, the other two goals ensured Holland won.

Andy, Cambridge,

The goal had to stand or a new tactic would have been born there and then..if you're caught out of position say you've turned an ankle and roll off the pitch instantly playing a stealthy offside trap.

Panucci did not need treatment would warriors likeTerry Butcher or Steve Bruce have stayed down?

matt, nottingham, sicily

You don´t like the rule? Change it. Meanwhile stop whining.
Italy sometimes cares more for theatricals than for the game.
Paul Zugasti, México.

Paul Zugasti, Ciudad Juárez, México.

If he's lying on his back he's supine,not prone. Prone is lying on your front.

Wilberforce, London,

There is too much grey in the the rule. It comes down to the ref judging the state of mind of Pannuci, was it a ploy or was is genuine. It's a big ask for a ref to judge a players thoughts in a split second and I look forward to FIFA firming up the rules to make it a simple yes or no decision.

Patrick, London,

Italy were outclassed from the first to the last minute. Even if you subtract the first goal, and why not throw in the second beautiful goal, they were still the losers. And rightly so.

Lauren P., London,

Lee in Manchester - were you watching the same game mate?

RVN was miles ONSIDE when he ran onto Sneidjer's beautiful pass.

Marc Melander, Liverpool, Merseyside

It wasn't necessary for Fröjdfeldt to feel that Panucci was play-acting. The rule is the rule, and the linesman abided by it. It's common sense that if a player leaves the field without permission he's still technically in play. And defenders don't have to be 'active', they just have to be there.

Kevin, Nottingham, England

It is so difficult for us Italians to admit defeat, acknowledge the opponent and reflect on one's own mistakes. Holland were by far the better side, better prepared, they played with joy and their football was refreshing, skilled and spectacular. Italy deserved to lose.

Gianni, Rome, Italy

I think people should stop moaning about that very first goal, don't forget, they were already playing way better than the Italians when the goal was scored. (you can also judge that from the 2nd goal) Not saying the Dutch are a strong team, I just think they were lucky because of Cannavarro.
Toon.

Toon v. Benthem, Eindhoven, The Netherlands

Rene Zaeler, Hong Kong: probably the most ridiculous post on here! It's obvious you're ignorance, delusion, bias and bitterness has affected your judgement.
Italy 4 time World Cup champions, 6 time finalist, 1 third and 1 fourth all earned all deserved.
Get over it and stick the topic!

arthur, toronto, canada

After the end of the game,I found Dutch team give me big surprised.They smite Italian which was the champion of World Cup.
Now,I just want to say "Good Luck , Italian ".

David Ma, Nanjing, China

I'm an Italy fan since years, and unfortunately this is one of the worst results I've had to see in my life. I said result, not performance!
They didn't play bad at all, unfortunately Holland played the game of their tournament. I still wonder if they will play better this month... Anyway, ...

Mirko M, Namur, Belgium

Having read many of the commentaries in the Italian press,ALL AGREE, and rightly so,that Holland were far superior to Italy in every regard and fully deserved their win. The offside goal is a footnote to the real story.
Most Italian fans interviewed also agree.
Well done Holland!Now beat France

arthur, toronto, canada

of the campaign, I just hope we will be back for the next two games.
I find it funny that when it's about Italy complaining about a bad decision, we get tons of angry comments about us beeing bad-tempered and all the rest ...
And for the rest of debate : Italy isn't the "cheating" team anymore!

Mirko M, Namur, Belgium

holland definitively deserved victory. donadoni said that the ref wasn't to blame. we never said that we are unbeatable and buffon apologised to the fans. don't call us arrogant: blame us for the horrible way we played, not on the basis of some unuseful commonplace about italy.

antonella, roma, italia

I'm afraid Martin Samuels bombastic debating manner fails to hide the fact that the referee was absolutely right in giving the goal - and FIFA were equally correct in implementing the rule. The rule stops players from at least one form of cheating - now there are only 999 others to deal with.

Brian Fargher, Birmingham, United Kingdom

Why not just go back to the old off-side rule-no arguments then. I cannot see how the new rules have actually improved the game. As far as I can see ANY player on the field is "active" because even a player strolling back one second can turn during the next play and become involved in the move!

Emma, TUNBRIDGE WELLS, uk

Hello there
I am really pleased to see that ourt defeat made so many people happy around the world, and specially the Aussies that are still going on and on with that match they lost in the last world cup against 10 men (maybe next time you should try 9 but somehow I think that you still wouldn’t

Umberto, London, uk

you still wouldn’t be able to score against us), it took the Dutch 30 years to achieve that, but I guarantee you that your happiness will be short lived, we’ll get back much stronger than before DON’’T YOU WORRY ABOUT THAT!!!! FORZA ITALIA

Umberto, London, uk

The ref's decision was completely accurate. The Italian bumped into his own teammate. He has no permission to rule himself out of play. Tough luck, but why should play be stopped. They are far too many stoppages in the game today. I applaud the ref's decision.

Robert Feeney, Toronto, Canada

At last someone has checked the laws of the game! Something ITV couldn't be bothered to do last night. Have to disagree though, its a good rule and stops players just stepping off the pitch to play offside. The play unfolded too quickly for the ref to stop the game. Well done Frojdfelt!

Stickler, Newcastle,

I was at the game and the commitment from the Dutch team was unbelievable. RVN was by law not offside! End of discussion. As mentioned, Ruud was also denied a definite pen when he surprisingly stayed on his feet. Nobody can argue with the result. A victory for entertaining football.

Bev, Bern, Switzerland

Panucci didn't simply cynically step off the pitch, he had taken a clattering from his keeper & was not aware of Sneider's shot - common sense ought to have prevailed for the good of the game, as it was a good one & doesn't deserve to be remembered for such a goal.

Sharon Stone's Karma? Twat.

Jeremy, Farnham,

One comment to make - Why can't they bring camera's into the game so that goals like the first one don't get allowed - people say it ruined the game last night..so why are they still not using them??

Stuart, southampton, UK

Rules are rules. You know how to deal with them or not. Every body know then or now (but that's to late). Holland played brilant.!!!

James, exbourne, devon

If Panucci had collapsed to the ground yards away, on the field of play, there would have been not a whisper of complaint, yet he would have been just as unable to be "active" by the standards set out above. The Czech goal was an error, last night's was not.

Chris, Worthing, England

Gee, if Van Nistlerooy falls over that easily after two years with Real, how bad is Ronaldo going to be !!

Steven, Watford,

Totally agree about the ITV commentary G Robertson, although thought funniest was after van Nistelrooy was caught at least 3 yards offside just before half-time, when it was declared that it was a clever run although he was clearly offside. If thats a clever run, I can't wait to see a bad one.

Lee, Manchester,

It's hardly Holland's fault that the guy left the field. It would have been a greater injustice if the goal had been called offside simply because a defending player had left the field.

Chris Jackson, London,

Complaining about the decision on the 1st goal and arguing that that changed the face of the game is wrong. It overlooks the fact that previous to that Holland was dominating play and creating chances and also because the 2nd goal came few minutes later. And Italy was not playing all-out attack then

Antonio, Leicester, UK

Italy,Just accept your loss and don't be arrogant. We ( holland ) played way better then you and even if RVN's goal was offside you would have lost the game. the difference is also in goalkeepers. the 2nd goal could have been saved by Buffon. Definately Van der Sar would have stopped that one!!

Ronnie, Zevenaar, The Netherlands

I realize that Mr Samuel was on a tight deadline, but I would have thought he would have hedged his article just a little. It is now clear that the decision was correct and the rule allowing for it absolutely neccesary. He looks a bit silly now, no?

chris, london, uk

Why are people always talking about the goals that were counted against the rules, but always forget about the offsides that appear to be no offsides. Also in this match again, Van Persie could freely run to the goal, but was flagged offside, which it wasn't. Referees will usually flag when in doubt

nils, amsterdam, netherlands

According to the rules of the game, Van Nistelrooy was on side and therefore the goal was legitimate. The officials should be congratulated for this: it is their job to referee the game according to the rules, not according to common sense (that is for FIFA to decide). Well done The Netherlands.

Martin, Sydney,

The referee did not make any decision on the premise of Panucci being active. If he had, it would have been taken after he'd seen the linesman flag for offside. The linesman didn't flag, there was no consideration of Panucci's position - it was simply a poor decision that is now being excused.

Ecgbert, Sheffield,

Yay for Holland!
It is nice to see the arrogant group with the big mouth fall
flat on their faces.

Irene, Rotterdam, the Netherlands

Goal or no goal, the Netherlands still scored 2 other unanswered goals!

Bubi, Fulham,

Holland totally outplayed Italy on the midfield! Van Bastens gameplan was one of the best for the last few years. There wasn't any dutch player who played bad. Strange that Martin Samuel's more interested in the italian excuses and gamerules.
Most attractive game in years for Holland, final worthy

Marco van den Boogert, Arnhem, Netherlands

Italy was totally overclassed.
In my opinion the first goal isn't a big difference, because Holland had lot more chances. Some individual players were really good (like Sneijder, Van der Sar, Van Bronckhorst, Van der Vaart, Boulahrouz and Van The Man) but they were best as team. Good Luck Holland!

Casper Duvivié, AMSTERDAM, The Netherlands/ Holland

Thank God it didn't happen to England....we would never hear the end of it!!! Ops, forgot, England isn't there ;-)
Congratulations to Holland, a very well deserved victory.

marco, edinburgh,

The commentary on ITV amused me last night.
‘If only England could find a team that was greater than the sum of its parts’ simultaneously praised the Dutch while suggesting England had better individual players than them. Unbelievable. We didn’t see total football last night. But it was close.

G Robertson, Glasgow, Scotland

van Bronckhorst's departure from Barcelona is one of the main reasons for their loss of form in the past two years. Did he leave Barcelona unhappily?

Paul, Bratislava, Slovakia

Shambolic referee-ing or rule mix up marred an otherwsie fantastic game.
The Dutch were excellent, but going 1-0 up from a `free`goal ensured a level of confidence that they had not had up to that point. Arguably the Azzuri wre better for the first 20 mins.

Dan, London, UK

What goes around comes around: Italy's diving act caused Australia's exit from the World Cup! Looks like a return of Dutch "Total Football" was just too good for Italy.

Rick, Melbourne,

What's the beef? It made up for the penalty Van Nistelroy should have had anyway - if only for resisting the usual urge to go down when challenged in the area.

Tony, London,

The Italians were sleeping on the pitch yesterday. Let's see if they wake up at the next game.

Giancarlo, London, England

Lets turn the situation of the first goal around. The referee could not tell if Panucci was injured or faking, and exactly that is the reason why the decision was right. A moment like that goes fast and the only thing the referee might have seen is a blue shirt on the ground behind the line.

arthur , berlin, germany.

Well done Holland. I wonder if our overrated, overpaid England team watched the Dutch; no doubt they were on a beach or busy preparing for some tacky wedding instead. I hope Holland win the tournament, especially playing football like that.

Paul, West Midlands,

A referee has to decide immediately. Therefore he must know all the minor rules of the play perfectly. Players must also know the rules. This is a living developing game and the rules of the play changes continuously.
We in Holland experienced a great evening.
We had to wait 30 yrs for victory

Maarten van Doremalen, Leeuwarden, Netherlands

Ruud van Nistelrooy offside?

FIFA: No, players cannot cross their line to effectuate an offside position. The Italian defender could have stand up. It was an onside goal.

Frans, deventer, netherlands

Holland Olee Olee :-)

MadManiak, veldhoven, Netherlands

Marco, did you read the article above? Panucci had left the pitch without the permission of the ref so was therefore - by the rules of the game - still active and was therefore playing van Nistelrooy onside. The ref's decision was the right one and Italy lost because they were outplayed by Holland.

David, London,

Thanks goodness England aren't in this competition, they would be torn to peices by every single team in Euro 2008.

What a fantatic match this was and it has taught us all a leason about the offside rule!

Joe, London,

Also: An experienced player like panucci would never make the mistake of getting on his feet. He knows it is better to stay on the ground to stand any chance of making something of his unfortunate situation. Maybe it was karma for Van Nistelrooy for not falling and getting a penalty before.

arthur , berlin, germany.

Please - football decided by play and not dodgy referees or stupid rules?

Platini and Blatter should be looking at that rather than their own power broking games.

Yes - the Dutch would probably have won anyway - but how does anyone know that for sure ?

May as well flip a coin this way.

Dan, London, UK

I'm italian (in spite of the first goal that ,in my opinion, was irregular) yesterday the italian team didn't play in the way you should expect by the last World's champions!

Andrea Costantino, Erice, Trapani, Sicily, Italy

All I can say is if my teams (Everton & England) had scored that goal and had it disallowed I'd have been livid. It seems wholly unfair to punish the Dutch because an Italian player has the misfortune to fall onthe "wrong" side of the line instead of the other side.

Everton Carter, Manchester, England

Martin Samuel as Chief Football Correspondent clearly is in a position above his means when he states ..."was so daft, so wrong, so clearly a mistake, [sic] that it should have been scrapped on commonsense grounds."
As others have mentioned, it would have been illogical if the goal had not stood.

Hazza, London, England

Think back to the phantom penalty against Australia that wasn't and resulted in the most undeserving "world champions" [sic] since West Germany beat Argentina in Rome. At least this only a Group game but if Sharon Stone's idea of karma is right, there are a lot more "injustices" due.

Rene Zaeler, Hong Kong,

Is there something in the rules that says if you fall to the ground, you're out of play? No. Are you out of play if you cross the byline? No, otherwise many crosses wouldn't count. Besides, the idea of "not interfering with play" is meant to not penalise the attacking side. The rule is a good one.

raj, london,

Can't we focus on what a brilliant match it was rather than a negative? Holland played superbly and Italy kept pushing for goals right until the end and also had plenty of chances.
In the end, the "off side" goal only served to make the game a better spectacle as it forced the Italians to open up!

Paul, London,

Well the Panucci was silly for having a cry on his back in such a crucial moment.
If he had kept his feet he could have been in the way of the strike or in front of Van Nistelrooy.
Hypathetically if he was active to come back to the pitch and defend then he is active in this situation too.

Tim Delaney, Sydney/London, Oz/UK

When one player is off the field, near gol line and stays out
there is no off side. Your sports editor must look up to the
rules. Your paper made a mistake, refere was right, and
italian players later remembered this rule as well.

hasan dulagil, London,

When will Italians (my countrymen) learn that when they lose a sport competition, this is not due to referees? Why does it never occur to them that reasons for a defeat may stem from problems related to the losing team itself? Once more, we prove to the world we are unable to accept our own flaws.

Andrea, Roma, Italy

Italy was completely overrun and outplayed by Holland and even if Van Nistelrooys goal had not counted, it would not have prevented their just defeat. The final score reflects the nature of the match perfectly.

Willem van Altena, Delft, the Netherlands

There has never been any such thing as an "inactive" defender in the offside rules. It would be ridiculous if a defender could catch a forward offside by sitting down or by stepping off the pitch!

Steve, haslemere,

I don't subscribe to this theory at all - the linesman couldn't possibly have judged that Panucci was playing RVN onside - it was just a rank bad decision for him not to raise his flag. The referee had no choice but to award the goal.

Having said that - Italy didn't turn up so they can hardly moan

Marc Melander, Liverpool, Merseyside

Good rule and good decision. Otherwise all a defender would have to do is jump back over the line to put an attacker offside.

Congratulations to Holland for trouncing Italy, rules or no rules.

Doctor Mick, Middlesbro,

Marco it wasn't shocking at all..well within the rules and these rules are needed because football players insist on rolling around on the floor crying every time someone bumps into them..utterly pathetic by Panucci who should have put the pain to one side and got up to defend..brilliant goal !

rob, Madrid,

italy were soundly beaten. get over it!

Steve, Belfast,

A shocking shocking decision for the first goal....which changed the game.

Marco, london,

holland outplayed italy, they would have won even if rvn had have been called offside. The rule stands so players can't just wait "out of bounds" so they can rush in after the pass has been made and not been called offside. instead of rolling on the floor pannucci could have got up and kept playing

wouter, Perth, Australia

Strange
I remeber as a child(many years ago!) being told that stepping off the field of play to put an attacker in an offside position would not achieve the desired effect because you could only leave the field of play with the ref's permission.

Tony, Walton, UK

It wasn't offside according to the offical rules!
A player is not allowed to distract himself from the play so officially it was not off side. I also thought it was offside at the moment, but anyway we were the better team the complete match!
Yaeh baby!

daan, amsterdam, holland

As with so much of the offside rule - interpretation counts a lot. The reason the rule was introduced was to remove any subjectiveness about whether a defender had intentionally left the field of play to place an attacker in an offside position.

Andrew, Guildford, England

So according to this newspaper if a man is injured on the line, its a perfect goal, but if he rolls over it, its the most debatable goal and stupid rule ever? So the thickness of the line should be decisive? Could we have a rerun please? Is that mans big toe on or of the field? Good criticism!

Ludo Coppens, Roosendaal, Netherlands

Even if the 'offside' goal was forbidden, then still Holland would have won, they were far better yesterday. Italy was just stunned by their play and the shot by Sneijder was on goal, not to Van Nistelrooy, who scored in the rebount. So that's why it wasn't offside i guess.

Eduard, Zuid-Beijerland, The Netherlands

it wasn't offside, the defender was behind the goal line, check the rules again. If he left the field without permission by the refereee, he is still active! English sports journalism = pro-French/Italian + heavily biased against Germany/Holland...

jo, canterbury, uk