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Arsène Wenger is adamant that Emmanuel Adebayor, the Arsenal striker, did not punch Frank Lampard during the Carling Cup final defeat to Chelsea on Sunday, despite the FA upholding the player's red card for the alleged offence.
The Arsenal manager is so incensed that last night, after losing to Blackburn Rovers in the FA Cup, he accused Lampard, the Football Association and one of the match officials at the Millennium Stadium of failing to “tell the truth”
Video evidence looks inconclusive to us, but what do you think? Watch the video here and then let us know your opinion. Did Adebayor deserve to be sent off? Was the punch actually thrown by Cesc Fabregas? Could Lampard even know who struck him during the mass brawl?
You be the judge ...
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I neither know nor care, but I am fed up with seeing this on the web page for nearly three months. Can't you replace it with something new?
G Booth, Glossop, Derbyshire
This is important not just because it is gross miscarriage of justice, but because it highlights the FA's approach to race awareness -- or lack of it.
The decision smells of an they-all-look-the-same-to-me approach, and the low level at which appeals are conducted.
Perhaps the real debate should be: Is the FA really the most incompetent and unaccountable body in the country, and what can be done about it?
Jonathan Hunt , London , England
Yes
Can we have a new debate now?
Bored of East Yorkshire, East Yorkshire,
This article is so last season. Surely there are other debates we could be having.
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
This is now so old I think I can spot a dinosaur in the background ..
John Webster, Aylesbury,
And it's still there on 16th April!
Douglas Lee, London,
Who cares - it is only a game.
And, if he did, then a criminal prosecution for assault should be instigated. Because an event takes place on football pitch should not bring immunity from prosecution - quite the opposite.
Chris, Ashford, Middlesex,
I have no interest in who punched whom - but hasn't this been going on for an inordinately long time?
Adam Sargent, Malaga, Spain
I'm writing on 8 April. This is a 5-week old story of no interest to the majority of the population.
So why is it still a prominent link on so many pages?
Sue Burnett, Pontypridd, Wales
I think everybody misses the point in this debacle. A spectator ran on to the field at the end of the Spurs- Chelsea match toattack Lampard and will be banned from watching matches for life. Any brawl on the pitch or off by players or managerial staff; which Wenger himself has forone been involved in on several occasions doesn't rerceive the same treatment. A red card or fine; Players and managers fighting on or off the pitch should be banned for at least a year from playing or managing without their salary.
The problem is the F.A. haven't got the guts to do it. It's a lot easier to punish spectators forthe same offence.
John.gilmore, Chantilly, France
No.
And Wayne Bridge should hang his head in shame.There was a slap ..back of the neck..he held his hand there..looked around to see if it had been spotted..for how long? 10/20/30/ secs 1/2/3 mins? and then when not spotted went to ground.
I dont like arsenal..they are southerners[ well some are?]but the they are the most enjoyable team in the uk[To watch?]The fans should really go with the current set up.I know they want trophies and cups..but even if they are southern.. and even if they lose..they are brilliant exciting and very different
david, Barnsley, Yorkshire
No he didn't punch him! Arsene Wenger has been a supporter of the introduction of technology in football for a long time and this validates his point. What frustrates me about this is Eboue was charged with the same offence and suspended by the F.A. yet the F.A. then suspended Adebayor for it even though they charged &suspended Eboue. How smart does one have to be to work for the F.A.?
Sam, Auckland, New Zealand
I don't need to decide, the referee and assistant referees are the judge, jury and executioners. They decided he was guilty, that should be enough, otherwise their is no point in them being there. When did you see any sports person own up to hitting somebody else?
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
What really comes out of this is the childish way the story is being reported. Wenger did not "race" onto the pitch as all the papers said - you can seem him strolling on and looking around.
And if this really is a "mass brawl", what language would the Times use to describe what happens outside the pubs of Cardiff or Nottingham on a friday night? That was a bit of pushing and shoving, nothing more.
Why does football reporting have to suffer from this silly mis-use of the language?
Tony Attwood, Corby, Northants, UK
No! Ade did no punch Lampard at all. I can not think to why the ref and linesman sent him of. These decisions should be more controled and less hasty. If refs make a rash decision, it can effect the team in the long run, just like Arsenal. I still do not know why there are no video's refs in this day and age?
Marcus, Staines, England
No, he tried to hit him with his rhinestone-encrusted Louis Vuitton handbag. Emmanuel was most upset afterwards because he had broken the strap.
At least it gives Arsene Whinger and Jose Mournful something to grumble about.
Frank Upton, solihull,
From what I can see Lampard steps between Toure and Mikel and is then attacked by Fabregas who throws his arm round his neck and wrestles him away - this seems to be the instant when all the other players rush in. The final part shows Lampard ready to sort out Fabregas at another time!
Graham, Lowestoft, England
I do not think Lampard was punched. He himseld has told the trueth. It is funny for the official to say that Adebayo intended to punch so straight red card. Official should also me made to explained their action otherwise mistake from officials will continue to go up.
This season a lot of clear cut decision have gone against Arsenal that is why I think Mr Winger is ferious.
Nana, London, UK
theat wasnt a punch , all he did was run into them with his hands out
david, edinburgh,
As I haven't seen the actual wording of the report it's impossible to say what it is I'm looking for. Clear Adebayor rushed into the back of Lampard which is probably what the linesman saw. Personally, the referee was right to send him from the field and the FA were right to charge both clubs with failing to control their players. Wenger was out of order to say the linesman lied, he will have given it as he saw it - whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant. It's about time football managers started to manage instead of trying to referee matches as well.
P Thomas, Merseyside, UK
How many red cards have Arsenal been awarded since Wenger took charge?
There is a general attitude about Arsenal, fed by their manager, that they are always the victim, never the villain.
I would have sent the whole lot off, including Wenger. What was he doing on the pitch?
Wilton, Singapore,
Wenger intends to prove to the FA that Adebayor did not intend to punch anyone......I Would love to see the evidence for someone not intending to do something !!
fred spurgin, chelmsford, UK
Wenger intends to prove to the FA that Adebayor did not intend to punch everyone......I Would love to see the evidence for someone not intending to do something !!
fred spurgin, chelmsford, UK
This was just pushing and shoving. Certainly not the 'punch up' that sky sports news described. The Arsenal elevated the conflict though, especialy Fabregas was lucky not to get sent off. Wayne Bridge did in indeed make his 'injury' look worse than it was but then Chelsea have got form for that sort of thing. (vs Barcalona)
Jimmy_Lazers, Leeds, UK
"obviously Adebayor punched Lampard"- obviously Lampard through his agent disclaimed he was punched and obviously Ridwan from Bollywoodland is in the eleventh hour of his sanity.
Jai Balan, Kuala Lumpur., Malaysia.
Adebayor did not swing a punch at Lampard. Big time respect to Lamps for message through his agent (and I'm a gooner) Eboue did not swing a punch at Wayne Bridge. Fab got pretty rough with Lampard, Eboue fell into Bridge (having ran a bit quick at him granted) Why Toure and Mikel got sent off I will never know and the only things that should have been punished with any significance were Wayne Bridge's play acting and drogba's slap around the back of Fabregas's head (which by the way got up Adebayors back (hardly suprising))
gavin walmsley, LONDON, UK
Every single player who received a red card during the game deserved it. The issue of contact is irrelevant. It is clearly stated in the rules that any raising of the arm or throwing of a punch is a red card offence and the footage clearly shows Adeboyar run into the melee with his arms raised if not with his fist flying. He was wrong, however, I can understand his feeling of injustice - Many other players got involved needlessly and escaped any punishment.
A major concern for me was not the melee but the Arsenal reaction. (Particularly Adeboyars) Respect for officials is too scarce already and top players behaving like spoilt children will certainly not help. If I was shown a video of myself behaving like that I would have been disgusted by my actions.
Ian, York,
" Lampard was trying to play peacemaker". What video footage were you watching Robert Rea? By word and action he was the main culprit. Forget Toure and Mikel. Lampard was the one who caused the whole thing to escalate. He was a disgrace. Probably because he had been given the run around the whole afternoon he thought he needed to be involved in the game somehow. It's no wonder Mourinho for once has kept his mouth shut about something. They are lucky Drogba, who is seen trying to fight battles on at least 3 fronts, Essien, Carvalho and most of all Lampard & Bridge have got away with it. What did Adebyor do or attempt to do to Lampard? Nothing. And when that's proved, the FA will probably invent something else for Adebayor. Anything to avoid having to admit the linesman has made himself look stupid.
Simon , Kings Langley, England
The FA is always biased against Arsenal. The myopic mugs at Soho Square always come down on Arsenal.
The barney included 18 players,,, why only Arsenal get punished? Again?
Russian Roubles or just Shearer-Like justice for England players (Lampard)?
phil lloyd, Bolton, UK
i'm amazed fabregas wasn't dealt with harsher. had the ref not booked him at all, he may have found himself up in front of the fa getting match bans. Adebayor went steaming in like the proverbial train in that youtube clip as well, he can't have too many complaints can he? Absolute comedy scenes from the big girl afterwards as well. The dangers of genetic cloning!! you would have never had this behaviour from the original Kanu.
Fraser, Preston,
It was a joke to see Bridge writhing in agony at a slight touch. If this kind of thing happened in most other sports then there would be more stoppages than game, grow up you footballers.
david, Kettering,
Arsenal need to start accepting that their players' behaviour is unaccetable. Whether Adeboyar actually threw a punch or not is immaterial. He steamed into the melee with obvious aggressive intent, as did Eboue and Fabregas. Wenger should be thanking his lucky stars Fabregas isn't also banned as there was a very good case for him getting a red card too. As for Chelsea, while Mikel and Lampard can both count themselves unlucky (Mikel was innocent and Lampard was trying to play peacemaker), rogba and Essien have both escaped punishment for their part. At least Chelsea are taing their punishment without complaint.
Robert Rea, London,
Whether he did or not is not the issue here. The main issue was that he did take a swing at Lamps but I do not think that he did make contact. If he did, I am sure Lamps would have reacted more aggressively. Lamps was more interested in finishing his argument with Fab due to the way he had man handled Lamps
blue, London,
What has not been stated is how the effect of this incident has reflected on the children who like to play the game and emulate their favourite players, is it not time NOW to stamp out the hooligans on the pitch, that are starting to set poor examples to the younger element
Peter, Harlow, UK
obviously Adebayor punched Lampard.We are seeing it from many days arsenal is becoming ugly .i think Wenger is now in the eleventh hour on his career at Arsenal.So he behaves like that.
Ridwan, mumbay, india
Arsenal and Chelsea want to learn how to behave themselves properly instead of worrying about whether Adebayor punched someone. Arsenal especially have a massive problem in taking defeat in a decent manner. Unfortunately their manager, Arsene Wenger leads the way by setting a bad example after defeats. Usually by complaining that the opposition made it hard for Arsenal to win!
Hemps, London,
Though the scene was ugly & heated. I think it is really being overplayed. In rugby & ice hockey they knock seven bells out of each other without this hype. The sports minister doesn't comment then. Heated row, got out of control. Big deal. Fine guilty people & lets carry on playing football. Paul Davies, Eric Cantona & Lee bowyer are moments that shame football, not hand bags & 3 paces.
kiri, kenton, uk
Did Adebayor punch Lampard? Judge for yourself (c'mon that is the title of this string) the answer is....NO - he didn't! It IS conclusive because Lampard says he wasn't punched. The problem is that when Adebayor approaches the linesman to inquire exactly as to why he has been sent off - the linesman has obviously(?) told him that he has punched Lampard.
Seeing as everyone is happy to drift off the topic of whether Adebayor punched Lamps...did anyone see Essien's studs up challenge on Baptista!? Can someone let me know how much later he shud have been in the tackle to have merited a red card? Kolo has clearly over reacted. I've heard Obi Mikel struck Toure whilst on the ground - its not clear on the YouTube footage. Although Bridge has effectively swiped the ball away from Eboué - perhaps unsportingly - Eboué needs to grow up.
A. Ruparelia, West London, UK
Ridiculous that Mikel was sent off. Laughable, actually. He was sent off for being pushed by Toure.
Toure, a little harsh, but can have no real complaint.
Eboue raised a hand to Bridge, and that's a red card. However, I bet Bridge is embarrassed every time he see himself on TV.
Adebayor's sending off was laughable, too. What did he do wrong? Earlier comment says that he hit Bridge. Rubbish, that was Eboue. Remind me, what was the punishment when Pedro Mendez was loafed into the advertising hoardings earlier this season? 6 games, I think. What will Adebayor's punishment be for not punching Lampard, or Bridge, and for not accepting a patently unfair punishment? Likely also 6 games. Which offence is worse?
Ken, Dublin, Ireland
Adebayor is a big guy...i think any which way he moves in a melee like this will be construed as aggresive...he seemed to me to be trying to break things up...so did some other players, reds and blues....but, and here is the big but..
the whole thing could have been avoided if the FA had strict rules on how to deal with this: , no players interfere with the referee and two players, NO players including the captains....each side move to a different side of the pitch....geez, it's not that difficult...so for me the culprit is the FA...they should get a red card. from what i could tell from the video, it was the play before the shirt tugging that set toure off...the shirt pull was the last straw...so both toure and mikel get the reds....lampard has got to have one of the biggest mouths on the pitch....fabregas could have gotten a red...and the rest is just ridiculous.....but adebayor is the biggest loser.
Margaret, Litchfield, USA/CT
Toure charged toward Mikel and then threw him to one side. Fabregas put Lampard in a headlock when he merely tried to separate the first two. Adebayor charged into both Lampard and Carvalho (twice) when they were only trying to separate themselves from Fabregas. Eboue sstruck and kicked and pushed Bridge over when he was only trying to get the ball. Drogba only tapped Fabregas on the back of the head to get his attention and chastise him for being a stupid little child. It was all Arsenal being charged because it was all Arsenal players instigating the violence, not because they were being singled out. Why Mikel was sent off is the only mystery here. 68 sendings off is not an accident. It's the Arsenal way - always has been, always will be. Beautiful football? My Arsenal.
Harry, Birmingham, UK
The kids of Arsenal spat their dummies out and threw their toys out of the pram, en masse. Mikel didn't deserve a red card - Toure simply set about him in the same way Fabregas jumped on Lampard, when Lamps tried to calm things down. (Did everyone miss Fabregas go down holding his face when Robben brushed his chest?) And Adebayor totally freaked out - very scary. So reds for Fabregas, Adebayor, Toure and of course Eboue. So stop whingeing Wenger - you deserved it.
Dave, London, UK
Er, what did Mikel do exactly? Can't for the life of me understand this decision, for me Fabregas is the only one deserving of a Red. Minor scuffle between Eboue and Mikel, in which Mikel simply defended himself, whereas Fabregas put Lampard in a headlock
Mark Simpson, Glasgow, Scotland
I think the reason why Adebayor is been punished is his all round demeanor at the time. He came in with a bang (not a punch) on Lampard and wasn't in anyway willing to back down. Essien tried to cool him down but, again he would'nt.
NKB, Plainfield, IL
The video evidence is inconclusive, although it looks to me as if Lampard is being treated harshly. What I think both mangers should do is immediatly impose internal punishments - monetary please - on their players for completely failing to show any kind of self discipline; which they should be able to do as professionals. The FA is a bunch of idiots we know, and wont handle this any better than they have in the past, but shoudl we not have a boxing style 'neutral corner/stand in your own half' type rule here for this type of incident in future? infrigment of that is easily punishable at the time or after the incident and thus making a who hit who first argument irrelevant?
Mark, Warsaw, Poland
Sheyi or Adebayor sure as hell didn't punch Lamps. Even Lampard has said so.Gooner haters can't see refs getting it all twisted.
Gab, Pasadena,LA, USA, CA
Whether he punched Lampard or not is irrelevant. The FA is not saying he did. The assistant referee's report cites his aggressive behaviour and that he aimed a punch that didn't strike Lampard. Adebayor also deserves another three game ban for failing to leave the pitch after his red card. The rules are simple; right or wrong, the referee is always right, at least whilst the game is taking place.
Rob, Brentford, UK
Frankly as an Arsenal fan I wish that Wenger would simply appeal the decision, show a bit more respect publicly and shut his bleepin mouth. He's stuck with the FA whether he likes it or not. He'd sooner find peace by dealing with them rationally and respectfully rather than stirring up a hornets nest everytime something doesn't go his way.
F Kendrick, The Pines,
Well said StraightA who cares about these overpaid underworked idiots. There are now much better sports to watch than these phoney "sport men"
David , Worcester, UK
Simple really, Arsenal players lost their cool as did Lampard and Mikel.
Where Lampard tried to defend his teamate, Fabregas used the altercation as an excuse to 'ruck' - pathetic.
The future of Arsenal football club is in this batch of players?
Don't believe the hype.
G.Dunn, West London, UK
no! not at all!
kendy, kuala lumpur, malaysia
Yes of course Lampard deserved a red card. That's his m.o. - Sticking his nose where it doesen't belong and being a phony hard man. If he had not have waded into the altercation, it would never have escalated in the manner that it did.
Andy Cintron, Staten Island, NYC
Has the F.A. noticed Drogba's cowardly little slap to the back of Fabregas's head? (Just after Mou appears on the pitch). Clearly designed to inflame the situation without him taking the risk of Fabregas seeing him? Let's have a ban for him too, please?
Alan Thompson, Vila-Real, Spain
Who really cares?
StraightA, Sin Johns, Canada
Not a heavy punch, but the intention was there. Another one of those 'I didn't see it' from Arsene..
Povilas Jurcaitis, Vilnius, Lithuania
He's not punched him. What a ridiculous charge.
Cas Vegas, UK,
How can you send someone down for 3 to 6 matches for this? Inconclusive is the word. With Adebayor one of 18 players joining the scrum, how is he any more culpable than Essien for example?
Normally I'd defend the officials as they've a very difficult job to do, but here it looks like they're just circling the wagons and refusing to admit the truth. No one can tell anything from this footage and it was even more chaotic live.
If the FA is looking to enhance (restore?) its credibility, it will find a way to drop this.
Patrick, Seattle, WA
I am totally bemused as to how Wenger can have a go at the FA for blaming Arsenal for the brawl. firstly it is quite clear that Toure instigated the brawl in reaction to what was no more than a petulant tug. The incident however was blown up by Fabregas trying to irritate Lampard and not helped by Adebayour steaming in a little heavy handidly. If anything, i think Chelsea have been the ones who have been harshly treated in that John Obi Mikel in no way deserved his red card. It was a yellow card at most (probably for the tug rather than his reaction anyway). The only other Chelsea player that could have been censured was Lampard, but if he is then so must Fabregas be, and I'm not sure Mr. Wenger would be too happy about that (although graceful acceptance of his players being in the wrong has never really been his strong point).
Richard, Edinburgh,
All these players should be given a lesson in professionalism by Paul Madeley (formerly of Leeds Utd)who in my view still shows the finest example of being a professional footballer that I have ever seen.
In a similar incident in the 70s a match between Leeds and Man Utd and as a result of a foul on Madeley this resulted in mass brawl by 21 players. The one player to walk away from the incident was Paul Madeley !!
John W Pepper, Clavering, UK
It looks like Lampard as peacemaker tried to separate Toure and Mikel, . Fabregas comes into to the picture attacking Lampard. Fabregas very lucky to have missed a sending off. Mikel fending blows and not at all retaliating on the other hand undeservedly sent off. I ubderstand thgat the referee had to punish both sides. As a neutral observer I have to say Chelsea behaved impeccably in the same way they did when their captain was felled earlier by a boot to the face which I fail to understand did not result in a penalty kick to Chelsea. I strongly reccommend the FA review Fabregas's actions and add him to the banned list.
twayapeh, penang , malaysia
Adebayor was pretty robust in the way he went about seperating players, but certainly did not deliberately strike anyone, his reaction after being red carded was also one of disbelief rather than rage
edward green, Upminster, England
yes, twice, saw it during the game, not a punch, but a hit (although not a very good one)
jake, london,
Is there an anti-foreign bias at the FA? I'm not condoning the actions of certain Arsenal players (Fabregas included) but for Frank Lampard to be let off scott-free is an absolute farce. The sitatuation would not have degenerated had it not been for Lampard throwing himself into the situation in the first place.
Richard Pearce, London, UK
Well if he didn't punch him, he certainly went in with his arms flailing around. It looked like he caught him with a rabbit punch to the back of the head to me.
I think Adebayor did deserve a red card and I think the TV pictures certainly do not exonerate him.
The real scandal is Mikel having to serve a 4 match ban for pulling Toure's shirt. What he did to warrant a red card I don't know.
Thomas Birkert, London, England
He storms in and certainly makes contact with lampard, but its difficult to see if he actually punches him. Lampard certainly moves as if he is trying to avoid a punch. His shirt is tugged, then adebeyor's hand quickly moves to where lampard's head has moved to.
I don't know whether he meant to punch him or not, but I can easily see why the linesman thought he did. He should have stayed well out.
David Ward, London, UK