Graphic:
Does size matter?
At a recent Manchester United home match there was a first-time Old Trafford
visitor sitting a few rows in front of the press box. You could tell that he
was a first-timer because he wore a look last seen on the face of Charlie
Bucket on entering Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory. As the clock ticked down
towards kick-off, he joined in the songs being pumped out over the PA system
and tried in vain to use his camera to take the perfect photograph against
this famous backdrop. He looked as if he was in heaven.
Then the match started and a hush fell over the so-called Theatre of Dreams.
As he exhorted his fellow supporters to stand and join in his chants, the
middle-aged man began to attract a combination of amusement, bemusement and
disdain from those sitting around him. Some looked towards a nearby steward,
as if to ask what he planned to do with this upstart.
The man was threatened with ejection and, by half-time, with his efforts to
sing and shout having met calls to sit down and shut up, his enthusiasm had
gone. He will know what one United supporter was talking about yesterday
when he likened Old Trafford to “a police state”.
After his team’s 1-0 win over Birm-ingham City on Tuesday, Sir Alex Ferguson
complained that the atmosphere in the stadium was more akin to a funeral.
“The crowd was dead,” the United manager said. “It’s the quietest I’ve heard
the crowd here. It was like a funeral, it was so quiet. It’s all right
saying players will make the fans respond, but in some situations, like
today, we need them to get behind us.”
For thousands of United supporters returning to work yesterday, this was an
unwelcome gibe. On factory floors and in offices in Manchester and beyond
there were jokes about prawn sandwiches – this being the dish that Roy
Keane, in a similar outburst, made synonymous with the corporate seats at
Old Trafford.
They do not serve anything so mundane as that in the hospitality areas these
days – in the Europa Suite, where tickets are £425 a head plus VAT, they
promise only “the finest cuisine” – but that is by the by. Mud sticks and
for many supporters there is no allegation more hurtful than the one that
they prefer fine dining than getting behind their team. It is a strange
situation, given the increasing diversity of fans and of what they expect to
put into – and take out of – the match-day experience, but Ferguson’s
comments touched a nerve among United supporters.
“A lot of people are pretty upset because it shows a lack of understanding
about what it’s like to be a football fan in 2008,” Colin Hendrie, of the
Independent Manchester United Supporters Association, said yesterday. “You
can’t stand up to make a noise. If you try to stand up, you’ve got stewards
who are ejecting you, taking your season ticket away.
“It’s almost like a police state in a football ground now. If you do stand up,
people will take your arm, put it behind the back of your neck and throw you
out of the ground. Under those circumstances, what atmosphere does he
[Ferguson] want?”
Ferguson wants an atmosphere such as the one he witnessed at Celtic Park in
the Champions League last season, or at Hampden Park, where he attended
Scotland’s World Cup qualifying match against Italy in November, or at
Anfield – on a great European night at least – or even at Fratton Park. But,
contrary to the prawn sandwich myth, Old Trafford is not hushed every week.
Against AS Roma and AC Milan in the Champions League last season the place
was rocking. These, though, are exceptions to the rule that spectators at
Old Trafford should be seen and not heard.
The “police state” quote is evidently an exaggeration – only three fans have
been ejected for standing at United’s past three home matches, with the club
left to decide whether their season tickets are to be confiscated – but
United fans frequently express dismay at the match-day atmosphere, citing
various factors.
These include poor acoustics in the Stretford End since it was rebuilt, the
number of corporate seats and day-trippers, the pricing-out of many
hard-core supporters, particularly since the Glazer family’s takeover in
2005, and, uniquely to United, the formation of a breakaway club, FC United
of Manchester, whose regular 2,000-plus attendances consist mostly of fans
disenfranchised from Old Trafford.
Some of those fans – raucous individuals who continue to follow United away
from home – boycott matches at Old Trafford because they do not want to line
the Glazers’ pockets.
Ferguson has never hidden his contempt for those who jumped ship to set up a
new club and he went farther in an interview on Tuesday when he criticised
the “unfair” protests against the Glazers. Some of the fears expressed at
the time of the takeover have not come to pass, but supporters are entitled
to be upset by an aggressive ticketing policy that has priced many of them
out of the ground.
The average cost of a ticket has increased from £26.50 in 2004-05 to £34 three
seasons later, a sum that will continue to rise at rates far beyond
inflation. The most expensive noncorporate tickets are £44, but the
corresponding figures at Arsenal and Chel-sea are £94 and £65. In their
business plan in 2006, the Glazers stated that “while Premiership teams in
the north of England have historically been viewed as having a lower-wealth
fan base, the perceived gulf in fan wealth is not enormous” and that “in the
context of the quality of the Old Trafford experience, the club’s tickets
have been undervalued”.
What, though, is that “Old Trafford experience” presumed to entail? Where does
the entertainers’ duty to entertain end and the supporters’ duty to support
begin? When they priced out some of their most loyal supporters, United were
looking for fans with deep pockets, not loud voices. Significantly, they are
regarded not just as fans but as customers, willing to spend £3 on a match
programme full of adverts for MUTV, MU Finance, MU Mobile and the club’s
myriad commercial partners, and to buy merchandise in the Megastore.
The real money, though, comes from supporters in the corporate seats, of which
there are a little more than 9,000. United boast in excess of 1,000
executive boxes – Liverpool just 32 – which gives some idea why the North
West rivals are so mismatched when it comes to commercial revenue. United’s
match-day income is more than £3.5 million per game, well over double that
at Anfield. If that additional revenue comes at a price in terms of
atmosphere, it is one that the Glazers are willing to pay – as would their
counterparts at Liverpool.
But is it any different at Liverpool? Not at the run-of-the-mill Premier
League matches that go unmentioned when the clichés are trotted out about
the magical Anfield atmosphere on a European night. English stadiums are not
the places they were 40 years ago, or even ten years ago. They have been
sanitised and sterilised. Except when your team truly need you, you are
expected to be seen and not heard.
I was ejected from Old Trafford in two games running for standing and singing.
It is a joke how can Fergie blaim the fans when the stuards do not allow an atmosphere.
I go to watch the game at Old Trafford for the atmosphere if I wanted to watch the game in silence I would have stayed at home.
Luke , Manchester,
I agree with alot of things mentioned in this artical.
All eyes look upon The Arthur Wait Stand at Selhurst Park.
Where a group of loyal, non-confrontational group of supporters have taken it upon themselves to try and create an atmosphere in that stand for the last 5 seasons, and it was working, the atmosphere at the whole football group had moved in a positive direction.
But the punishment for getting behind the team? This season they have had their seats netted off permanently, and cannot sit in their seats they have paid for in the name of "health and Safety" because they are right at the back and choose to stand which makes it easier to sing.
These fans have not been given alternative seats, the club has gone quiet, and the Police and stewards now check tickets, and stand around this group, asking them to move if they want to be near their seat. It is like a detention cell.
This is how clubs treat their loyal, passionate, paying supporters!!
Crystal Palace Supporter, London,
great article.
i myself have gave up on OT now which pains me to say.
i concentrate on the away games (i apply off a mates ST) but now even they are on the decline. long serving reds cant get the tickets because execs are applying for them and selling them on. or going and standing out like saw thumbs.
fergie is a great manager but ive lost all respect for him
michael, manchester,
"I have been going to chelsea for years and it's exactly the same... They also sit down when the stewards ask them, which is all the time. This is the clubs policy and not the fault of the low paid stewards."
That's unfair.
I have watched games in the MHLower and Upper, West Lower and Upper and East Upper. In my experience, the Chelsea stewards are actually very tolerant of standing - certainly when there is action on the pitch - I remember the most recent Barcelona game which I saw from the MH lower and I stoood for almost the entire game.
Also the club is doing a lot to encourage "singing" ends in the Shed and MH ends. The atmosphere isn't always rocking but it certainly isn't bad compared to some other big clubs.
Julius Blumfeld, London,
At a lower level standing and chanting is still allowed. At Hampton we are rather reserved and polite, but then that's us - visitors are often boisterous and loud (and sometimes unfortunately vile, like Hayes and Yeading on Saturday). But if someone wants to sing and dance that's fine.
In grounds at the 'top' level supporters are expected to sit down and shut up. Little surpirse that there is no atmosphere. Look to the way your club is run Fergie, until that changes you'll get no support.
dominic stockford, Teddington,
Fergie knows he can blast off as much as he likes, just as Keano did a few years ago, and it won't matter because OT will get it's 75,000 come what may. Trouble is though that the higher the ticket price, the less the volume, so it's the bean counters vs Fergie on this one.
As echoed by many of your other correspondents, seated fans are not conducive to an electric atmosphere. Also, the away fans are not in the mix at OT. I was at the Emirates for the recent game, row 9 back from the pitch and the only time some of us sat down was half time. No hectoring stewards or police state Tannoy announcements.
The away games work because tte fans know the chants and enjoy the banter. At the home games only a distinct minority know the chants and if they have an off day the rest simply don't get energised. Get the away fans in the mix and hear the difference.
So come on Fergie, rather than blast the fans, get the back room boys to work on a solution.
JP, Jersey
J P Frith, Jersey, UK
There are two arguments here , yes the fan should have been threatened with ejection, people have paid good money to SIT and watch the game in comfort and as a disallutioned former season ticket holder of 35 years at O.T. I can understand how the people around felt.
But there should be a place for him and that should be in a safe standing area which is achievable in other European leagues it is no coincidence that the best atmospheres are generated when fans stand and cheer there teams on (you only have to attend away games as a red to savour that delight)
Alas the sanatised Stadiums we now have mitigate against any atmosphere.
I am afraid Old Trafford is now frequented by some of the most unsophisticated fans ever.
But don't be conned by the greatest manager ever about quite Stadiums I watched United in the 60's ,70's thru to 2006 and even in the heady days of Best ,Law and the great Pat Crerand
there were matches when the Stadium was Funeral the players spark the crowd .
Peter Tattersall, Leyland Preston, Lancashire
I'm a Member of Utd and pay £25 per year for that. Then I can apply on line for each home game at £25-£44 per ticket. Last season I got every home Prem game except Chelsea. This year I've only been given 3 games because there are so many more "packages" and corporate tickets and far fewer tickets it seems for Members. I appreciate it's a business and they will get up to 6 or 7 times more money from a package than from me but then Fergie can't complain about lack of noise. Incidentally some seats are now "premium" and cost £50. Members can decline these if they get them and get a refund. I did so for a recent game but the Club kept my booking fee of £4.50 .. for doing nothing!! Hardly looking after your customers. But I'll still support the club and they know that!
David, Manchester,
Quote: "Where does the entertainers’ duty to entertain end and the supporters’ duty to support begin?".
This is a joke, right? Notwithstanding the fact that I am indeed not a follower of the english version of the game, as my heart truly belongs in my local club Rosenborg in Norway, I am however intrigued by the sentence I have quoted here. It is understandable that these "superstars" who make millions and millions of pounds for their entertainment-shows once- or biweekly during the season should have duties laid on them. Surely someone in charge of signing the paychecks also has the right to make demands in return for the insane amounts of money being thrown after some of these primadonnas. But to demand that the supporters do their duty and support their club, and at what price, seems to say the least unreasonable. Supporters are present at their own expense and will, so try treating them with respect, and give room to those who supported you in bad times as well. It will pay off!
Alf E., Bjugn, Norway
I have been going to chelsea for years and it's exactly the same. I have also been to most other grounds and they all have the same problem. It is the gentrification of football and something that will only get worse.
Money is all that matters now and quiet day tippers spend money, don't cause trouble and queue quietly. They also sit down when the stewards ask them, which is all the time. This is the clubs policy and not the fault of the low paid stewards.
I also advocate a small terraced area in each ground, like they have in germany, who have the highest average attendances per seat in europe!
Dave, london, london
I would add another two important factors, the first of which has crept in at Old Trafford over the past couple of years: music is now continuously blasted out of the PA system right up until kick-off, with repetitive, faux-American forced fun from the PA announcer who reminds the crowd every five minutes that “This is the Theatre of Dreamsâ€, “Home of the Premiership Champions†etc etc. Even only five or ten years ago this would have caused an uproar among many United fans, with its sanitising effect of killing off any real or spontaneous pre-match atmosphere. Secondly, I think that the away fans should be seated directly behind one of the goals, rather than tucked away high in a corner, which would really help the atmosphere.
I’m sure these problems aren’t unique to Old Trafford (remember some other grounds even play music when a goal goes in, like living inside a PlayStation game), but I can only comment on my own experience of the past 15 years as an OT season ticket holder. Whilst I don’t agree with those fans who say they should have the right to stand and shout for 90 minutes (and ruin the match for someone sitting behind them) – the danger is that Premiership football is becoming a predictable, staged ‘entertainment’.
Simon, UK,
Expectation kills the atmosphere. Even as a West Ham season ticket holder we suffer from it.
Firstly for a tough game (like a European night or derby game) everyone is vocal and the stewards can't single out individuals. So the atmosphere is allowed to build.
Secondly when you go to a game expecting to win and your team to put on a show many fans sit and wait to be entertained. They want to be thrilled. I have noticed it for years now.
When West Ham go to the Big 3 (Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Yoo) their grounds are very quiet. They expect to beat us by a big margin and are waiting for it to happen.
Similarly when a team like Derby or Reading come to West Ham the crowd expect the same. When it doesn't happen there are more quiet groans than loud support.
Lastly, ticket prices are pricing the traditional working class out of every game. So they pick the bigger games. The European nights or the local derbies as their games to go to. Less important games are filled by drop in fans.
salty, Reading,
I accept the principle of some of the things said in the article, but there is a great deal of exaggeration. My daughter & I attended the Fulham home game at OT and sat in the Stretford End - we hardly sat down all game because everyone around us was standing and singing. My 17 daughter now knows the words to all the rude songs mainly derogotary about scousers & City supporters!
I have attended games with a friend who has a hospitality package & it seems incongrous wining & dining and then going up to your seat to sing and shout. European nights are also magical at OT and the atmosphere at the FA Cup semi at Villa Park last season was fantastic - the noise from Utd supporters was deafening, but there is the rub - they are the true fans not the ones who leach to success and would disappear if the roller coaster ride of being a Utd fan had more downs than ups. True fans have to have broad backs to accept the criticisms often born of jealousy towards the largest crowd puller in the UK.
Michael Edwards, Llangollen, Denbighshire
We have to make the Stretford End a "singing area only". No families, no corperates...
Instead of turning away from United (I do not like the FC United of Manchester idea) we should try do do something about the atmosphere at OT. We should all stand together (not just United supporters, but all football lovers) and try to make a difference. We should have our say and get the terraces back. This is not just a problem at United, but everywhere in Britain. Let`s all point out a weekend, and let`s all boycott going to the game that weekend. We need to do something.
Simen, Oslo, Norway
Im a season ticket holder and the reason for lack of atmosphere is the stewards who are constantly telling supporters to sit down. In the Scoreboard End where I watch matches everyone It seems would rather stand and sing songs and chants , its more comfortable than sitting down anyway especially on cold days! The hardcore fans that make the noise and the chanting are still there, they havent been replaced totally by part time supperters, you should go to the Trafford Bar or Bishops Blaize pub outside the ground before matchday, its absolutely rocking!
Paul , Conwy, Conwy
I was one of those who sat quietly through the Birmingham game on Tuesday. I confess that I am now struggling to shout support for the club I once loved. On 23 December, before the Everton game, amidst much fanfair, the club presented a cheque for £35,000.00 to its favoured charity,UNICEF. Over the few days before Christmas news was emerging that each of the players had paid £4,000.00 for their Christmas binge. Libby Purves' excellent article in the Times concerning that issue has left me with a sense that I am demeaning myself by occupying my seat .Sir Alex believes that this is an internal disciplinary issue that should be addressed behind closed doors. I disagree. I regularly contribute to their huge salaries, have associated myself with the club for over 30 years and I am entitled to hear a very public and genuine apology for this serious embarrassment. Sir Alex should remember that empty seats can speak volumes.
Peter, Manchester,
Ferguson is so out of touch with the fans its untrue.
Old Trafford has its good and bad days, the same as EVERY other stadium in the country, the fact that its Manchester United means it gets reported on.
Fans will vote with their feet eventually, but whilst they're enjoying the football and can afford £34 a ticket nothing will change.
Short term if football carries on killing itself with the price rises and daft kick off times etc for another 3 seasons then it will die completely and be overtaken by the execs.
That wont last forever, they'll get bored of soulless stadiums without the working classes to create an atmosphere and I think its then we'll see a turnaround and it will come back to the fans, but not for another 10 years minimum.
Dan Warren, Manchester, uk
Whilst I do believe the stewardship at most grounds these days is ridiculously over officious with £15 per day drunk on power employees intent ruining the paying publics day out, I do think Ferguson should accept the reality of the situation. Namely that Manchester United's fan base is so vast and perhaps not so passionate as those who follow less successful teams that a quiet stadium is to be expected.
Whenever United score and the camera pans across the crowd the view is always of star struck part time supporters brandishing cameras and/or mobile phones.
Go figure!!
Darren,, London, England
Ok, hands up. The atmosphere was not good. But Ferguson's got a nerve.
On a day when there was no public transport except a few specials from Piccadilly to the ground, your average fan, with the massive hangover from firework inhalation, decides that's the day to let his whingeing mate who can "never get a ticket" go in his place. So, when said 'mate'
sees someone alongside him being hauled out for persistent standing in the Stretford End, he sits down and shuts up. [And don't believe them when they say they don't chuck people out. They've got cameras so good that they can see someone with a plastic bottle in the seats] I've been going to OT since 1960 so I was there of course though faced with the choice of paying double fare for a taxi or walking 7 miles home. I'll just check my blisters now.
PS 75,000+ got there despite the transport problem
PPS I am female working class
Old Timer, Manchester, England
All seating grounds have been the death of "atmospheres" at English grounds.In Europe the Germans seem to have got it right with standing areas and reasonable prices to engcourage younger vocal support.
maurice chapman, soham, u.k
The simple fact is Fergie is part of the problem .
He tacitly at least , at the time of the takeover, and overtly now , supports the Glazers.
The Glazers like all the other new comers want a return on their investment. That means higher prices. Higher prices - price out the noisy working class participants (particularly the young local males) and ensure the demographic of the stadium is middle class and middle aged and middle england.
The choice for many United fans is simple now;
Pay a fortune for something that you increasely aren't enjoying or do something else on a saturday. I for one will be trying FC UNITED in the very near future. Failing that I'll just take up fishing.
Wythenshawe willy, Manchester,
all i can say is the fugures of three people being ejected in four game is nonsense i was at the game v derby and 3 people were ejected from the east stand alone, i was alos at the game v everton i was again sat in the east stand where 4 people were ejected from my block nevermind the whole stand, the stewards are a disgrace and will ruin my club
Tom, Manchester,
I knew 6 people with Old Trafford season tickets in 2005, all of whom have now giving up, 5 of which due to the cup ticket policy recently introduced. Twenty something year old lads generally provide the atmosphere, but they generally cannot afford their credit card to be debited automatically whenever united reserves require their attendence for the next coca cola cup match at Old Trafford. they all still travel away with united.
Very short sighted of Ferguson considering his Glazer support in the same week. You simply cannot have it both ways.
John, Manchester,
I have followed United home and away for twenty eight years. I have been locked up, beat up, slept rough, hitched, jibbed flights along with many other Salford born reds.
This year I didn't join the "automatic cup scheme" as quickly as the ticket office would have liked. I received, along with many others a patronising letter from some jobsworth, who informed me if i didnt join the scheme they would cancel my ticket and give it to "Somebody who is prepared to commit themselves to United"
I explained, by way of response, that unlike the sender of the letter I didnt get paid to watch the reds. I choose to follow them just as I was now choosing to tell him to stick my tickets as I no longer wanted them.
Hopefully the person who received my seat enjoys the game,after of course visiting the mega store on the way in and buying a programme.
I love United but enough is enough.
Jophnny Seven, salford,
I was a Season Ticket/League Match Ticket Book holder for more than twenty years, and a loyal supporter for twenty eight years attending almost 700 games. Although it broke my heart, I gave up my seat for the reasons specified in the last two sentences of Oliver Kay's excellent article.
Simon Lee, Hull, England
Ferguson works his media magic again. One interview and suddenly everyone is talking about fans, grounds and atmosphere; no further mention of the disgraceful antics of his players and no investigation into how such a party was allowed to take place and how it could be hosted by supposedly professional sportsmen.
A true master at work.
Brian West, Reading,
The article is spot on. I was a season ticket holder until 2004. You cant justify the outlay when youve got kids that you cant afford to take. It seems selfish to go on your own. So I stopped going.
Andy, Manchester,
Fergusons views hightlight how far removed those within professional football truly seem to be from the discontent that is simmering in football fans across the country. The working class male has been the backbone of the game for decades, and with the taylor report and the launch of the Premiership, clubs saw a chance to target a new demographic & a conscious effort to marginalise lower income fans. A disgust is growing in fans towards the custodians of our game, the celebrity culture of the player and their stupid wives & wannabe famous girlfriends. I hope that some catalyst raises its head in the near future and those in the game are brought to their knees begging 'real' football fans to come back.
Gary, London, England
Unfortunately it is not possible to get the air into your lungs that is needed to make the noise mr ferguson is referring to when you are sitting down.
There is another problem... It is now so expensive to go to the game with your children that the next generation of hardcore support are being eroded away before they even got there.
Also, you cant price the raucous working class man out of the game as it is he that provides the atmosphere which is part of the entertainment package his rich middle class brother is paying to experience.
i give it 20 years tops.
nigel, m/cr (blue half), uk
If Fergie is so upset why dosn't he get the board of directors or even the subs bench to lead by example.
tom, southport,
Bring back the terraces!
jim, Brussels, Belgium
It seems clubs on the one hand want to generate a supportive atmosphere, while on the other, feel the need to give a show of force in dealing with the more vociferous fans. That said, I wouldn't blame Ferguson; after all, what does he know about how football fans are treated in this day and age. It seems those in charge of policing the premiership grounds are stuck with the mentality that all football supporters are yobs that need controlling. They can't have it all ways; do they want their day-tripper/corporate "supporters" who are commodities waiting to be exploited (until the team's fortunes take a dip that is), or do you want to treat your true fans with respect? I think I know the real answer.
Tim, London, UK
Ferguson should thank his lucky stars that he consistently gets a high turnout (over 75,000 for the match in question). To get this and then berate people for quietness is ridiculous. He should put more effort into ensuring that his overpaid prima donnas behave themselves at Christmas parties.
steve, Illinois, USA
The working mans game it most certainley is not any longer!
So long as this preposterous fad for over paying half wit jessies from all over the world continues, then the real fans will stay away due to the over pricing to accomodate these two legged money pits.
Still nothing will change, so Fergie and co, you have made your beds so have the decency to lye in them, QUIETLY!
Pete, St Albans, England
I'm confused. Last week, the story was about the raucous bear-baiting that goes on at English grounds--enough to make grown men cry, or at least feel seriously ashamed. This week, it's the sound of silence. So which version should the person restricted to viewing on TV believe? Afraid to cheer for the team because you might lose your season seat? Or relieved that the weekly fix of venom-spewing incurs no such risk?
Alsace, New York, USA
I watched the Man. U - Birmingham City match on FOX Soccer Channel. I definitely noticed how quiet the crowd was at Old Trafford.
The "police state" or, more accurately, the "country club" atmosphere is also a growing problem at major sport stadiums here in America. It seems the common "joe-six-pack" fan is being shoved aside as corporations buy up whole sections of seats and luxury suites are now the place to see and be seen. I can easily understand the Man. United fans' frustration. To actually be at the venue to watch your favorite team beats television anytime.
Jeff, Nebraska, USA
Oliver, can only echo Steve's comments from Salford...I'm a season ticket holder of 20 years and slowly thinking it's time to give it up due to the majority of the reasons in your article...Fergie needs to get a reality check, he's so out of tune with the thoughts of the average, time served local red!
Jav, Manchester,
Excellent, informed piece.
Thanks Oliver - a breath of fresh air in an era of journalistic drivel.
Steve McDonald, Salford,