Richard Owen in Rome
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As Uefa began its inquiry after the violence at the Olympic Stadium and British newspaper headlines blaming police brutality arrived on newsstands here, most Italians shrugged off the row.
Television bulletins placed the story low down in their running orders, ahead of local crime stories but below the return to Britain of the sailors and Marines captured in Iran, the Pope opening Easter ceremonies and the debate over Italy’s new electoral law. Some Italians were unaware of the mayhem because Italian television showed limited images of the clashes in the stadium during the match on Wednesday.
As the day wore on, Italian television news bulletins and newspaper websites began to run the story of the violence more prominently, but largely as a baffled and rather pained reaction to “British media reports” accusing the Italian police of targeting Manchester United fans and using unnecessary and excessive force.
Many locals seemed to agree with Achille Serra, the Rome chief of police, that his men had acted correctly. “If anyone is able to demonstrate the contrary I will be the first to call for an inquiry,” he said. The police had been “obliged to interefere” to restore order. He denied that the police had picked on United fans and he dismissed rumours that 1,500 English fans had got in without tickets as “fantasy”.
When the violence erupted on Wednesday, the general reaction on Italian television postmatch discussions was that there had been “a bit of trouble”, but the real interest was in the goals. As a result, yesterday’s front-page headlines were about AS Roma’s victory. There was barely a mention of the “scuffles” between United and Roma fans, or between supporters and the police.
Corriere dello Sport’s front page was headlined “Vucinic’s golden goal”, with reports of the clashes on an inside page. “Guerrilla war — twenty wounded, seven English fans knifed” it reported in a piece tucked well beneath the match reports. It claimed that the police had waded into United fans “to repulse an assault by the Red Devils — three of whom were arrested — against Roma fans”.
As for violence outside the stadium, Italian reports unanimously blamed it on alcohol, this time however pointing the finger as much at the AS Roma Ultras as at the English visitors.
La Repubblica said: “Clearly, the attempt to ban sales of alcohol in Rome had no effect whatever. Every fan looking for a fight had a bottle in his hand. The ground in front of the Olympic Stadium was a sea of broken glass before the match.”
Il Messaggero, the Rome daily, confined its coverage of the violence to its local news pages, accusing bar owners of circumventing the alcohol ban by allowing fans to take bottles away. It added that, in any case, the takeaway ban was pointless because many fans “spent the day inside bars and pubs drinking themselves into oblivion”.
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Although I do not deny that there will be a minority of English fans who will behave appallingly, it is clear that Roma fans have a reputation for violence and it is also clear that Italian football suffers from serious hooliganism (hence the derby game in Sicily). The Ultras are renowned trouble makers, and I think that the police did behave in a more than excessive manner, even hitting a disabled fan. There seems to be a strange pathological hatred against English football fans. I have started a petition if anyone wants to sign it: www.petitiononline.com/giss71
I however have the feeling that this comment will not be published. And by the way, I am Italian.
Bruno, Stockport, England
I think one of the above messages is mine and guess you forget to put my name. I will let you guess which one it is, knowing that you are not going yo publish this one.
Correct your mistaike please
LOGSEWOMAN, TENERIFE, SPAIN
I'm a United fan and have seen the behaviour of a significant minority of our fans on occasions when they have been described as behaving impeccably. there are those who think it is ok to get blind drunk, urinate against shop windows in busy streets and insult local women. I can feel no sympathy for them when they feel the business end of an Italian cop's baton.
Lenny Harper, Ayr, UK
The Real problem in this "affaire" is that British media have done disinformation. They had shown only few images of the riots!
Emanuele Ferrari, Milan, Italy
Why is it always the English that are involved in such ugly scenes when they travel abroad? Perhaps the police had a role to play in this instance but you cannot deny that English fans in general are aggressive, provocative and don't know how to support their teams in a positive manner without subjecting the opposition to humiliation. Is this something new or something that has been handed down through generations? It also asks another question, why are the English the most hated nation abroad? Hundreds and hundreds of years mistreating others in countries that you have/had no right to be in will eventually lead to those who were subjugated to this abuse to rise up and retaliate. Perhaps some humility and positive behaviour from your ambassadors abroad for at least a few years will lead to a more positive reaction from your opponents be they in a stadium or on the streets.
Tommy, London, England
I mean in UK are living most intellectual and clever people, speaking many languages, studying other cultures, travelling different countries to get sympathies. Simply, they know everything... other people are fascists, dictarors regimes with brutal police and law system, stupid and obtuse, shortly we in Europe and in the rest of the World are way behind the times. So please stand and applaud the perfect british law system, with charming police and smilling stewards. So... when are you beating by english fans, just say to your-self: they have right, because of their intellectual superiority.
Richardson, Skien, Norway
I live in Rome and am a Manchester United fan. I am incensed by your misreporting of events. Have you never heard of the 'Ultras'? They are violent and have far more say in the running of clubs here in Italy than English fans have. Therefore, violent or not, they are important to the teams and can thus do more or less as they please.
Have you got such short memories that you have forgotten endless scenes of violence when English fans were not in the country, not being particularly interested in Italian football unless an English club is involved. Do you not remember the Middlesborough fans who were stabbed here? Do you know nothing about the missile hurled at a referee here in Rome? Do you not remember the trouble caused when Galatasaray came here? To blame it endlessly on 'drunken' English fans serves no purpose. Italy has its own problems with hooligans which it refuses to face up to and therefore uses any opportunity to blame others.
susan cole, rome, italy
Have people forgotten the behaviour of the Italian football fans in Milan when Scotland played there last year? Scotland has an impeccable record when travelling abroad however the Italian fans (national fans I might add) took it upon themselves to urinate upon the Scottish support from the second teer stand. Also when Spurs travelled they were accompanied by their own security advisors and stewards as well as other official personnel which as I understand are all making official complaints against the police. On the night there was no confrontation between the actual fans. Strange that in the same season where Feynoord are ejected from Europe for crowd disturbance that suddenly police are trying their best to provoke British fans. In the second half when the police were ejected from the area (YES the police) the trouble stopped.....now isn't that a coincidence.
Andrew, London, uk
Hey i think the blame should be put on the Man-Utd fans{English fans}. I think they are famous of causing chaos every where they go. Look at spurs when it visited Seville in spain. it was the same story. The English FA should devise mean to stop their mad supporters from bringing trouble in other people's
cities or stadiums. They should do all that in England
RODRICK, KAMPALA, UGANDA
It is curious that every time that an English team goes outside, special security measures have to be taken and fights occur. It happens in Spain EVERY blessed time that an English team comes. Is it really always "unprovoked attacks" by the pseudofascist police??
Does the contrary happen? Why not?
Logseman, Tenerife, Spain
You fixed things in your own country and made your stadiums safe places but you let hundreds of barbarians go accross Europe devastating cities.
You should do something to solve this problem but of course you aren't interested in doing it because is not a problem of yours.
Maybe we should better close our borders. This way we could prevent us from facing such animals.
You should apologyze for your behaviour instead of asking explanations.
Facts are evidents. And you should show all the pictures and videos expecially those with hooligans attacking cops.
macciocapatonda, Rome,
I personally think that, whenever a controversial issue about football happens in Italy it is difficult to fully understand who should be really blamed, as what used to be just a sport is turning into something else, a sort of new mass religion which is often used by Italian politicians as a fast and cheap way to obtain enormous fame.
As a result, it may happen that something considered potentially disturbing will be hardly admitted by them, so I'd rather suggest that we should wait for having at our disposal a third party report to be checked (e.g. made by UEFA or Amnesty Internation), otherwise all you can expect is the obvious complain made by the AS Roma fan (or the Man-Un one) merely claiming that the Brits were all drunk (or the local supporters were good at handling knives).
Franco, Rome, Italy
Having witnessed unprovoked police violence on Glasgow Rangers fans a few weeks a go in Pamplona, I feel that the policing in these 2 countries(Italy and Spain) mirrors the old fascist dictatorships of Chile and Argentina in the 70s. This is not the first time that I have seen the Guardia Civil "in action" I and believe that their behaviour is a legacy of the old Franco regime. It also appears that any human rights that you might enjoy are voided as soon as you attend a football match in Southern Europe. At least in England the fans having the backing of their clubs and the press, whilst in Scotland there is presently an anti Glasgow Rangers agenda in the media and government. This, combined with the Rangers club showing no interest in the safety of it's supporters leads me to believe that nothing will be done until someone dies or we have another Heysel.
graham , brighton,
About the alcoholic ban. We live many miles from the football stadium and there was the ban printed and exposed in the supermarket near my house.
If you need to get drunked stay at home
Rosa, Rome, Italy
The problem here is clear. Italian football and its police force are unable to accept that there is a problem. They have the same attitude to corruption, where the denials go right to the top.
The fact that a group of thugs even has a name is worrying. The Ultras' appear to be allowed to do what they like (where was the police in the home stand?). The fact that every british team going to Rome has had fans stabbed - that is attacked with a knife for crying out loud! - over the last decade or so is ludicrous. It doesn't make italian news even. Remember what happens here if such an event occurs.
All these show the terrible state of football in Italy.
Paul, London,
In football the English are rightly reputed to be tough, never-give-up characters but always fair and sporting. These undeniable character traits are not reflected in the English dailies.
Amadeo, Attard, Malta
Firstly I went along with the version presented by the English media. But today I watched on satTV an uncut Italian Police video where it is shown quite clearly that Italian Police moved in the corridor that was separatng the fans of the two squads only after bottles and
seat-covers started to fly on BOTH directions.The Police intervention was short (There were 3 of them.3 mints each) but inevitably hard. After all they were riot Police & as a rule around the world, they strike their baton first and then forget to ask questions.
A Police spokesman said that they did so to prevent a much graver happening similar to what happened in England in the 80s when many Italian supportes died at the hand of English hooligans.The video showed that the English fans broke thru the Stewards' line and at that stage, unless the riot Police intervened, there was a serious possibility that the 2 group would face one another. If that happened, now we would be counting the dead not the wounded
Sebastian, Adelaide, Australia
Funny how Arsenal could win 3-1 in Rome and never a hint of trouble - nor did the Gunners have any crowd trouble playing in Milan (Inter) and Turin ( Juventus) . Celtic has also played at A C Milan and without trouble. The problem with Man Utd is they are arrogant and flaunt authority. How many grounds do they play at, refuse to sit down, preferring to stand?
Eddy Pratt, Barnet, Herts
Every game that an english team plays outside England it is all the same: drunked supporters that attack police and others supporters. The same that happened yesterday in Sevilla and before in Lilla, remembering all the death people at the Heisel stadium in Belgium. I have a question: why you english people must drink so much beer before a football game?
Fabrizio , Rome, italy
Manchester supporters were drunked and vandalic outside the last Wednesday, I have seen them. Each state has its laws, so, where is the problem?
Gabriele, Rome, Italy
As Paolo says, the whole video tells a different story to the one the British media has fed us. The Utd supporters spent several minutes provoking the police,so they have to look at their own behaviour. 2 stewards on the Roma side of the fence managed to quickly restore order!
Matthew , WALLASEY, Merseyside
When I saw first live images of the riots in the stadium I was very angry with roman police but then I watched the full movie shown in the press conference of Prefect Serra
and changed my mind: police has been cold and patient, they charged only when the situation was becoming very very dangerous, don't judge if you don't know the whole story
paolo, modena, italy
Anyway it's quite normal here in italy.
Michelangelo, Turin, Italy
Question to the Italian commentors:
How can you compare someone throwing a plastic seat at helmeted policemen with the atttempted knife murders of English people!!??
I never hear stories about English fans stabbing other supporters??!!. Roma vs Middlesbrough, Leeds a few years back etc etc....Get it in context!
Italian football is known for it's provoking murderous thugs! Innocent Englishmen walking with their sons and nephews have fallen victim to these scum far too often.
Your biased comments are laughable!
Patrick, Stockholm, Sweden
Question to the Italian fans: Why is it the only knifing casualties are English fans! I never hear stories about English fans stabbing people! Roma against Middlesbrough , Leeds fans stabbed in Italy a few years back etc etc..Get it in context!
I see this as attempted MURDER. Some English idiot throwing a plastic seat at helmetet police officers is a far cry from the murderous villians who repeatedly STAB innocent men walking with nephews and sons. Think about it!
Patrick, Stockholm, Sweden
So,manchester's supporters are all saints, isn't it?
Let's take a look here please:
http://www.corriere.it/Fotogallery/Tagliate/2007/04_Aprile/06/Scontri/1.jpg
Emanuele Ferrari, Milano, Italy
I can assure you every italian newspaper has a full report over this story. On the other hand all the fuss british media are making about this is absurd. The clashes occured because a bunch of drunk supporters tried to come in contact with the opposite supporters. This happened after United released a letter full of hypocrisy that had the effect to boost the tension around the match. As a new video has been released about the clashes it's clear that the situation was under control until british supporters started to throw missiles against the police officers. I wonder why not a single newspaper in England show the picture of a MU supporter throwing a wrecked seat towards the police. The supporter with the blooded head was no angel, as he incited repeatedly violence among his supporters. Not a single word was spent about the abuse of alcohol of english supporters and about the fact that some 1000 MU supporters arrived in Rome without tickets
Marco F, Bologna, Italy
can anybody deny what's stated in this article?
vittorio sorella, Montreal, Canada