It's common sense to look at the question of whether there is a God carefully and in great detail; it never ceases to amaze me how many Christians simply believe without having done this as you could end up in any religion with this attitude. I have done this and still do but my faith remains strong

Gareth, London,

Jonathan Edwards has missed the point completely - We love God because He first loved us & sent Christ to die for us. I believe in Jesus because of who HE is, not because of who I am. Like everyone, JE needs to realise that it's not about him - It's all about Jesus.

Simon King, Alsager, UK

matthew 24: 24 ''so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect'' The bible is very clear that this sort of thing would happen in the last days, stay strong in the lord.

Tom, west sussex, england

It's interesting for someone who has been a Hindu for some time to see all these discussions that pivot around Christian god or not-Christian-god.

I hope he finds peace whichever direction he goes. It sounds like he is, which is excellent.

Richard, Leeds, UK

I know that even though Jonathan doesn't believe in God; God still believes in Johnathan

anne, South Yorkshire,

I agree that from once you start to ask questions about there being a god that you are on the path to becoming an unbeliever, which is what has happened to me and it is very liberating.

Vera Harvey, Surrey, U.K

What Jonathan has experienced is called 'evolution'. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have their roots in one very Earthly Bronze-Age volcanic event, mistaken for the act of a supernatural being and they have not moved on since. Understand what truth really is, free yourself from all that baggage

K. James, Channel Islands,

Let's just pray for Jonathan (and his family), for the Lord to have mercy on him ... just as we all need.

margaret, GUILDFORD, SURREY

I suggest anyone -and Jonathan Edwards- who is having doubts about the existence of God to read the Autobiography of a Yogi (first published in 1946) by Paramahansa Yogananda. I'm a big athletics fan and especially have been following the long jump and triple jump. Edwards has been phenomenal.

swavek, new jersey, usa

To love God whole-heartedly, not half-heartedly, is to have faith. It's a life-long commitment in which God rewards us with his wisdom (higher reasoning). Faith is about love as a verb (charity). Mr Edward's batteries have run out already because wanting to be the 'winner' is psychology, not faith!

philip morgan, newton abbot, devon

Really sad to just hear of this.

David, Inverness,

Christopher O'connor- what will YOU do when you arrive in heaven to meet Allah, & not your God? or perhaps Shiva? or etc..etc.. the point is that Edwards has thought about this for the 1st time in his life. 99% of the time your faith is the one your parents indoctrinate you with from birth-nuff said

jared, London, UK

Just because some things may not be perfectly accurate in Christian history does NOT mean that there is no God. Humans are fallible, we make mistakes, translate wrong, cover up history or re-write it. The fact is, all one has to do is look around our amazing world to realize there IS a creator.

Maria, Corvallis, USA

Good on you Mr Edwards.You saw through the facade and woke up and then realised that this life is only one we have.Its amazing how people can delude themselves by not only believing but by believing they ´see and feel`a God. Amazing the lengths people wil go to convince themselves a falsehood.

Phil, Edinburgh, Scotland

It's about time we started to realise just how special we are as a species without the help of imaginary friends. Now he can think what he likes and analyse his thoughts objectively without the guilt and obstacles of religion. Well done!

Malcolm, Thame, U.K.

Jonathan . Jesus broke into literal history to die for your sins and to give you eternal life . If your sins are not on his broken bodily sacrifice which God has accepted ,then what will you say to Him when you face Him as judge if as it seems you have rejected His solution to your unrightousness.

Christopher O' Connor, Worcester, UK

Someone here wrote:

>But let us not lose hope - remember C S Lewis - he was raised in a Church-going family...became an atheist and...in his thirties, he came to CHRIST. Keep praying for Jonathan.<

Prayer can't change what a god ordains. To be a Christian is to think illogically and uncritically.

Dave, Los Angeles, USA

I ask questions about God's existence all the time, and it doesn't put me on a sliding slope, it makes me stronger and stronger in my faith. Losing something so key to him is clearly going to have a huge effect and naturally I hope he finds his faith again, but it is his choice.

Peter , London,

So upsetting, his faith in God took him to heights (or should I say lengths) previously unachieved and then he lost it.

He should question his faith, I just hope he comes up with the right answer. How do you know God exists? Romans 1:20

Matthew, Cardiff,

I have only just in the post-Beijing Euphoria heard about Jonathan's loss of faith. As a retired Anglican priest I'm probably impertinent to comment - but I'm not susprised when anyone reacts against a narrow fundamentalist evangelical background .- we may reject God, but his love never rejects us!

John Porter, Framecourt, France

My Christian beliefs have been constantly challenged in my 9 university years, e.g. when obtaining MSc in Physiology after quitting MBChB. My own complex partial epileptic seizures get rid of memories, & I think it's absolutely insulting to claim Christian beliefs are due to not questioning.

Stephen Mason, Aberdeen, Scotland

Jesus wept

My name is not important

Alan French, Beccles, uk

I am a born-again Christian and I am devastated by the news that Jonathan has lost his faith. But let us not lose hope - remember C S Lewis - he was raised in a Church-going family and then became an atheist and then later in his thirties, he came to CHRIST. Keep praying for Jonathan.

CIL, dagenham, United kingdom

I always thought Jonathan Edwards came across as someone screaming "look how humble I am". Now the same disposition to self-promotion takes the form of a more honest "look at me, now I don't even have to pretend to be humble". I hope he finds peace with God.

Thomas, Surrey, United Kingdom

When I was 16 I personally understood that there was no god and no higher point to existence other than to live as honestly and within what nature has made us. It doesn't make life any less beautiful that there is no creator. Welcome to the light Jonathon. It's a better place to be.

Stuart Tomanek, Nottingham, UK

Listened to your commentary, Jonathan, on the triple jump this afternoon and sadly reminded of your decision to reject the Christian faith and, with it, Jesus Himself. Can I ask whether you ever had the amazing experience described in Eph 1:13/14 - baptism in the Holy Spirit? Makes a difference!!!

mike shaw, bridgnorth, uk (england)

Fabulous! Great to see another human taking the 'red pill' after years of clouded vision. Enjoy the new, vivid landscape Jonathan

Tony Lacey, Mancehster, UK

I am honestly upset by Jonathan's rejection of his faith in Christ. It really saddens me that someone that has been strong enough to stand up and be counted as a Christian in this world can all of a sudden turn his back on it. Jonathan, God loves you, Christ died for you, don't deny Him His place.

Deborah Hughes, Warrington, UK

How very sad, that Edwards is only able to "deal" with his emotional crisis when retiring from sport, by denying the one certainty in life. I had never realised how shallow his faith obviously was. God please protect me from that self same shallowness..

Michael Ingram, Southampton, England

I became a Christian as a teenager not to know God or join a religion but because I knew I needed to love and be loved. I hope love might be eternal and that Jesus is the divine embodiment of love. We live only a few miles from JE. We live with many doubts too. Like to chat with JE.

Robert Forsythe, Prudhoe, UK

My own experience of losing faith was one of the most pleasurable and positive of my life. The realisation that there is no god allowed me to see the world in a far more intense and beautiful light. The world is a better place without god. Well done Mr Edwards.

Richard Mann, Norwich, England

I have just seen J.E.doing punditry for the Olympics .It was the first time in a number of years that I have seen him being interviewed .He came across completely differently than before. I have only just learned of his departure from his faith, after seeing this. I now fully believe in God..

Barry Jackson, ORPINGTON,

A person who's motive in life is to glorify God will not be bothered by loss of status. A true Christian is called to stop walking in pride. Then said Jesus unto his disciples "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me". We can't serve Jesus AND our ego.

Pauline, London, England

I examined my childhood faith whilst sharing a house with much loved atheist friends, and studying theology. My love for Jesus continues - 'Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20 v 29)

Jane, Stone, England

If the suggestion that Paul's conversion could be adequately explained by an epileptic fit could pave the way for JE's Christianity to unravel, sadly I fear that his 'faith' must've been more superficial optimism than genuine identity.

Jonathan Hopkins, Broomfield, USA

i have studied philosophy an science for years, i have had both sides of the argument and have read alot of books. I have absolutly no doubt in God what so ever and its not just general revelation and the stars in the sky that tell me this. Whatever hapens God loves jonathon and i will pray for him.

David, Bradford, England

Congratulations Jonathan, it takes a lot of courage to face such an awakening. It's far easier to bury doubts like others do, or chase away any thoughts that may lead to an open consideration of the facts.
Of course you don't become an Olympic champion being afraid to face realities !

Shaun W, San Diego, USA

If you knew God he can not stop existing to you no more than you or I could because he would be real.This man had religion not God. He never knew God. When you know someone you know they are real.He was never real to this guy but God's word never returns void and he acted out God's principles.

Emperess Walden, High Point, USA

Everyone here has faith.When our class wrote an opponent of ID - "do you agree that the simplest cell is more complex than our best computer?" He AGREED, and said, he had FAITH that the years of evolution were sufficient to create it!I I hope Jonathon exhibits such refreshing honesty in his search!

Don Ansley, Barrie, Canada

Faith or reason?

Jonathan Edwards chose reason and found the satisfaction and joy that comes through seeing the world as it rather than through the corrupting and destructive haze of religion. Well done.

I pity those who wish for him (or others) to travel back into the darkness of superstition.

Sam Centipedro, Shrewsbury, England

As a friend of his father and knowing him from his birth, I am extremely sad that Jonathan has “lost” his faith. I too admire his honesty and understand his need to be true to himself and others. But I am much sadder at the comments of those who congratulate him on being delivered from this delusion

Dick Luther, Dorchester, Dorset

Dear Jonathan,
You only have to look at creation to know we have a wonderful designer, if you believe that we come from a mushy soup sea you have only joined the majority who are not really seeing the holes in the evolutionary THEORY. Jonathan, what about the Holy Spirit, a living witness within you, have you no relationship with Jesus?
Where will your hope come from without Him?
God Bless You

Mike Foster, Rochester, England

Hi, I'd like to say congratulations on your records! However, I'd like to mention that it is completely normal to question if there is a God... However, at the same time how can you not relate what you have done to a being looking out for you, to me it seems that your skills are a gift from something other than your genetics and family... religion will always be a debated issue, but those times in your life when you feel like there is something with you, that there is something unexplainable guiding you and giving you warmth and passion for something... is in my opinion supernatural and heavenly... God has given my gifts, and I feel like i let him down and that he should not have faith in me, not the other way around.

however, good luck in your endeavors and may you find God again in your life, there will be some of us who pray for you, and some of us who want you to live an aethiest lifestyle... remember how you were raised and pray for that in your children as well! God bless...

Michael, Harrisonburg, VA

Welcome to the growing number of ex-christians. I, like you, was a born again believer before realising that it was all simply a fantasy.

Richard Dawkin's book "unweaving the rainbow" gives a wonderful view into the world of awe without recourse to the supernatural - it proved very helpful to me in solidifying my atheism.

Congratulations - what you have done requires strength and robustness of character. It's much easier to believe a fantasy than to stand on your own two feet.

Ian Lowe, Airdrie, North Lanarkshire, UK

" What ever happened to the saying You must hit rock bottom before you reach the top"
I feel that you must realise that God's ways are perfect and when you hit rock bottom it is then that his glory will show. I mean how can you appreciate Money if you already have it? That's how I believe it is with God. You cannot fully appreciate what he does for you without losing what you have.
All of that stuff that you mentioned above are insignificant, they are worldly possesions that belong to this world so why not leave them in this world and concentrate on the supernatural world of God where anything is possible.

L Stevenson, London, United Kingdom

will keep you and your family in my prayers.

dave , glasgow,

Jonathan - Life is not pointless and we are not here by chance. I have sometimes thought and questioned but always found it difficult to accept that the world and it's occupants just came about by chance. I also believe God has answered prayers I have uttered in times of need. I would recommend a book if you wished to read it "Is God past his sell by date" by John Blanchard. Wishing you happiness.

Joanne, Magherafelt, N Ireland

Very sad to read that you've backed off from God. I think there will be a period where you find a 'liberty' of a kind, it's called 'unfamiliarity', it's new territory. Even the novelty of that will fade and the questions only God can begin to show an anwer to will come to the fore once again. Those with a stereotypical view that a God Squad is after you shows a childish take, founded upon a lack of real experience or understanding. I don't believe God has finished with you at all, just like the rest of us while we're still on this side of heaven. For those who have never expereinced God, go into a contemporary worship environment and just watch what happens.

Greig, Dunfermline, Scotland

Good for you Jonathan. Definitely better to assess what suits you than to "blindly" follow. Hope, belief or even faith is incredibly powerful, but one need not always link it to God. The fact that one questiosn the existence of God does not equate to one believing in big bang either.

arctanck, Reading, UK

Be careful now people. Dont offend any God squad members, you know they will come for you in the night.

Tom, London,

Why is it that the god squad must come out in force and cry to the heavens that dear Jonathan be saved?
Is it just me or is the feeling that their own belief somehow takes a hit from his lack of belief? As if their belief somehow gets better the more people buy into it? Insecure perhaps?

Well done Jonathan. You have shaken off the shackles of unquestioning ignorance and you have asked yourself the difficult questions without fear. I can only imagine the intimidation you will be recieving whether it be from friends, family or by random email, I am sure it is piling up.

DJ, ST ANDREWS,

Who created the big bang Jonathan?

Terence Dunne, Paddock Wood, UK

“If there is no God, does that mean that life has no purpose?" If there is no God (or at least something very much like a God) then how could the answer to the question be "no it does not mean that"? How could anything but the hollow chord of nihilism be the underlying harmony of reality? Attempts are made of course to fill the existential void with Humanistic exhaltations on the value of logic, science, reason, art, culture, even on that of base hedonism, and to claim that we as humans can somehow weave our own meaning from the tattered threads of an arbitrary and soulless world. That we can gain dignity through facing the harshest of ultimate realities with a Stoic equanimity.
But do we truly believe this, this greatest of all miracles? That we can get purpose from purposelessness, reason from irrationality, dignity from humiliation, and something from nothing? No we cannot: for we are claiming goods for which we are simply not entitled. If God's dead, so is Humanism.

Gawayn, Edinburgh, UK

There is a God Jonathan and you know it too, feel the force young skywalker....

mike, braintree, uk

For all you doubters, I have seen god on a number of occasions in the past and it was spectacular.

Unfortunately I don't see him too often now because he plays for Cardiff, however, Robbie Fowler is still god.

Richard , Jersey,

I recently read that the Codex Sinaiticus is the earliest known bible which was written some 350 years after jesus's death. Since then it has been edited and revised on a number of occasions by people with a political agenda - usually to control the ignorant masses.

The fact that people place their faith in a document which was written so long after the event sits uncomfortably with me.

It is like me writing a book about life in the 17th century without having any verfiable and reliable reference material to go on.

Richard , Jersey,

Jonathon, welcome to the Truth. There is no afterlife, no purpose to our existence. I hope this Revelation doesn't bother you, although I don't see why it should.
You were clearly the victim of religious brainwashing as a child and I am glad you have now seen the Light.
If you find you are having doubts, I recommend the works of St Dawkins. Available at all good bookshops.
Good luck and happiness with the rest of your life.

colin, london, england

"What gives me hope is that he has many close Christian friends and family who will be there to support him during this time of reflection. "

They wont they'll shun him and treat him like dirt, no matter a good of a man he is. They always do

John, orlando,

It takes far more faith to be an atheist than any other rfaith in religion. To accept were just an accident and still find joy takes faith!!!

If you look at the whole picture of science and rationality it would seem illogical to believe that there is not a God?

I hope Jonathan Edwards finds God again.

Did you know that you cannot define, symbolise Christianity No other religion has this simple concept To define what a Christian believes in you must not read but se with your eyes and heart, a man dying on a cross. Why? = LOVE = The meaning of life and the reason for all you may experience or ask questioins about.

My crisis of faith nearly killed me But I have faith its simple

Gently does it

Dave Mc Gee

Dave Mc Gee, Coventry, West Midlands, UK

It appears the loveable Jonathan was never really a Christian just a church-goer,bought up in a christian circle, who at the time agreed with the christain 'religion'.
However real christianity is not about a conformity, church attendance or religious practices.It's about a personel relationship with Jesus Christ, once you experience His divine love & prescence in your life, it's not something you can deny nor would decide to forsake at any cost.
So dont be suprised unfortunetly Jonathan never lost God as he hasn't yet found Him!

Steve Kiernan, London, England

I'm very late to this but I'd like to comment anyway. I'm sure I am not the only reader of the article to find the majority of the "Christian" comments, however well meaning, to be pompous and self-righteous hectoring.
As the atheist son of a Jewish/atheist father and a C of E /agnostic mother I would like to give my warmest congratulations to Mr Edwards for being courageous enough to question his faith. Faith is by definition belief without evidence. He found his faith to be unsupported and unsupportable. Good for him. Now he can discover the world and be responsible for his own thoughts and actions. As the late and much loved physicist Richard P Feynman intimated, the Universe is far to big a stage for god's tiny human-centred drama.

PV, Treviso, Italy

Referring to Patrick O'Lunaigh's comments regarding religious belief correlating to a low IQ, it might be worth considering Einstein's views on the existence of a divine creator.

I wasn't aware Einstein was renowned for being unintelligent.

Mike Nightingale, Southampton,

Good man, Jonathan. Honesty is the best policy - a Christian virtue. I too lost my faith several times. On one occasion it took me 3 years of philosophising and prayer to find Him again. The reward of a God more loving than the one I knew before always met me. There's no end to our learning about Him. Thank God I never closed my mind to the possibility of finding God again - a willingness to suspend disbelief. Not to worry - it's always God who finds us, never the other way around. He never leaves you, always loves.

Pete Manderson, Ipswich, Suffolk

Patrick,

I think you shoulud say 'low IQ' rather than 'lower IQ'. Otherwise, you're relating a positive to a comparative, which is inconsistent.

A Christian, romford, essex

In the context of studies that appear to show a correlation between religious belief and lower IQ, it's interesting to note the generally poor spelling and grammar in the posts from Christian contributors.

Patrick O'Lunaigh, London, UK

As a fellow ex-christian myself I was encouraged to read this - I'm obviously in good company! It is amusing to read viewpoints from Christians, but when you're hanging on to something so silly you have to come up with a 'reason' other than common sense as to why someone is no longer a Christian. Well done Jonathan!

Andy Bowker, Leeds, West Yorkshire,

I just got to read the Jonathan edwards story today November 2, 2007,and if i say iam shocked i must say that is an understatement because i never in my wildest drean thought that this has happened to a man i just told someone sonetime ago i love just because he refused to jumped on sunday. I don't know what I can say, but I know that it is the work of the evil one-satan. But in all thing I know that God in his mercy will help Edwards, he will see the light soon, he will not die a backslidder in jesus name.
I will be glad if I ever get a link to Mr edwards, i certainly will.


Olusoji Olukayode from nigeria

olusoji olukayode, Lagos, Nigeria

I believe there is a sun, even when I can't see it shining.
I believe in love, though I don't always feel it.
And I believe in God even when I can't see His face.

A change of life style often leads to the questioning of faith, I have questioned God myself when in diffucult siuations. But evey time I let Jesus reign in my life, his prescence is made obvious to me. Questioning God is not always bad. But in doing so, keep your mind and heart open for the possibility that God is real and has a plan for you.

I pray that Mr Edwards will keep his heart open to the possibility of God.

In Christ's Love,

Em, GF, Canada

If you notice that Johnathans loss of faith came when in this world he started to gain success and with it wealth. Jesus said "What does it profiteth a man if he gains the whole world and lose his own soul" Johnathan has gained the world and if is soul "is" lost then it is something he will have to face when he stands before the Lord at the Judgement. Paul also calls it a race that we all must run "Those who ENDURETH to the END shall be SAVED.This is not salvation by works but those who will have endured to the end shows that their salvation WAS TRUE NOT FALSE.

frank keefe, pontypool, united kingdom

Well, I have only just found this article...and am so impressed with everything he has to say, and am completely rethinking all the negative thoughts I had about J. Edwards in the past. He is a man who can think for himself and has cast off the shackles of his misguided brainwashing upbringing. Well done! I am respecting him at this moment than I ever did for the silly jumping thing he did. Welcome to intelligent thought and freedom from dogma.

JAN TREWIN, Hereford, UK

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
For indeed, the Son of Man is going as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!" (NASB)
The stepsof downgrade and backsliding are subtle and often done in small steps. First JE took an admirable stand by refusing to compete on the sabbath. Then he started to compete on the sabbath. Unfortunately, much of current evangelicalism is effeminate and feelings based, comtemporary Anglicanism glories in doubt as if it the apex of reason. Its not. No doubt JE would have be influenced by this subjective mind set.

We do hope that God may grant JE repentence as final apostasy will result in a stricter judgement for him. May the TIMES allow me to exercise my freedom of speech a freedom won by those grim ironsides who watch word was Holy Writ) and use the expression'a hotter place in hell'

Michael Greenway, Kingston, England

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed!
First the upholding of the sabbath then he started competing on the sabbath, the backsliding is subtle and the regress graduel. I pray that Jonathan will come back to God with deep aand heartfelt repentence. However, he must be warned that final apostasy will lead to a hotter place in hell!

Mike, Kingston, England

This must be a difficult and perhaps frightning time for those close to Jonathan, his family and friends, those who love him and for whom the change in him may be bewildering; but there are hidden depths to the Christian faith which are often only stumbled upon when initial faith falls away. Christianity is about life, life with all its dilemmas and struggles, pleasures and laughter, problems, enigmas and losses. Sometimes when one kind of faith dies it begins to pave the way for something new, something deeper, something dare I say with more honesty and compexity. There is a famous Old Testament story where Abraham's grandson Jacob is invited to begin a life of wrestling with God and the world. This may be the beginning of a new kind of faith, as yet unseen, for Jonathan and those near him. Following God is a matter of one day at a time, one mistake at a time, one encounter at a time. May Jonathan and his family be encouraged to keep going in their journey.

Dave Hopwood, Lynton,

Dear Dominic - you are the only one who seems to believe in the flying spaghetti monster - does that answer your question? And before you go on to argue that the number of people who believe in something isn't the measure of it's truth - I would agree with this. However, there is so much historical, archaeological and indeed scientific evidence to back up Christianity's claim that you really should be more honest with yourself. You simply don't want to look honestly at Christianity - now why is that? Is is experience or lifestyle choice?

Kirk, Belfast,

In a situation like this it is always best to go deconstruct and build again... to "Start With Basics". As long as Jonathon Edwards is open minded towards finding and accepting absolute truth, I personally don't see this 'crisis of faith' as a problem; not while there are many following and believing blindly. It is always good to ask questions.

Elizabeth Young, London, United Kingdom.

It is sad to read this report but, of course, the truth and validity of the Christian faith is fortunately not dependent upon the profession of faith and subsequent apparent departure from faith of someone 'famous' like Jonathan Edwards.

I have no reason to doubt that Jonathan Edwards' profession as a Christian was a genuine one. I wonder, however, whether in his pursuit of a very fine athletics career he lost sight of his true identity in Christ and became focused solely upon his identity as a world record triple jumper. There are many professing Christians who have lost their way because of a pursuit that, while commendable in itself, become a 'god' which supplanted God Himself in their lives.

One only has to consider the life (and death) of someone like Eric Liddell who, fine athlete though he was, never lost sight of the fact that his identity in Christ was more important than anything else this world could offer. There couldn't be a better counter balance to this report.

Alan, Glasgow,

Sirs
a) According to the report Jonathan Edwards is an agnostic NOT an atheist

b) his experience of 'faith' actually ISNT very biblical, there are big holes in these reported experiences. ie "I invited Jesus into my heart" is NOT the true experience of a true follower of Christ.
therefore, there is a strong suggestion that although 'religious' (Jesus never preached religion) Mr Edwards wasnt truly saved.
It IS a sad comment that churches have fallen to think that a person is in a certain condition without checknig the truth of their faith.
This is a complex issue, esp. for non-believers, but "My sheep know my voice" its about personal relationship with Jesus Christ and His work. This is still not in dispute.
Mr Edwards deserves our prayers and some help to possibly sort a diificult problem that the stardom has thrown up (or the ramifications of stopping that artificial life)
Basically, there is only 1 name in by which we must be saved, only 1 life that gives us

S Everett, Istanbul,

Hello David, And thank you for your comments.

Your objections again seem focused on Premise 2.

You question whether space & time came into being at the moment of the big bang. But, according to Hawking, 'Almost everyone now believes that the universe and time itself had a beginning at the Big Bang', so my premise is not exactly controversial. And the burden of proof lies with you if you want to contradict the general consensus of today's astrophysical cosmology.

You then say it's only on the basis of our measurements of visible matter that the is insufficiently dense to collapse. True. But for a collapse to be feasible, physicists reckon that 99% of all the universe's matter would have to be invisible. Sandage refers to this as 'a bizarre requirement'. The term 'ad hoc' also springs to mind!

The 'fine tuning' argument is a separate issue, which I'd prefer to address in a separate post. But, for the moment, how do you feel about my defense of Premise 2?

james bejon, romford, essex

I've just sharply been reminded at what this article is all about
1. Athlete becomes famous for being a God-Botherer.
2. Athlete becomes famous for actually being rather good, most of us try to ignore the God-Bothering aspect as to a thinking person its pretty hard to take a botherer seriously.
3. Athlete famously recants - normal people think "about time", the other botherers get all hot and well . . . . bothered.

The comments may look to he uninitiated as rather bizarre

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

James,

Some interesting points you make... my comments:

1) Space and time doesn't need to have come into existence at the big bang... since we can't tell whether or not this is correct (as we can't confirm or deny what was before) we would be both intellectually dishonest in claiming any certainty either way.
2) It is considered that the current VISIBLE universe is not dense enough to collapse, this doesn't hinder the many theories of dark matter etc, that contribute to a more massive and dense universe.
3) Also I am not ruling out the possibility that every collapse and subsequent rebirth spans a new set of constants affecting the laws that govern physics etc.
4) The fact that the current universe is 'fine tuned' to exist now is no evidence that previous universes existed that weren't.

David, London, UK

Dear Dominic,

You say that my argument can be used to prove the existence of 'anything that can be imagined and [isn't disprovable]'. Not at all. What my argument proves is the existence of a creator of the universe. It couldn't be used to prove the existence of, say, Marley's ghost, unless you wanted to argue that Marley's ghost created the universe, but in that case you'd have to accept my argument for a Creator and then supplement it with a further argument identifying the universe's Creator with Marley's ghost.

In other words, you're right if your point is that my argument only gets me as far as an indeterminate creator. I'd need to provide further arguments to identify this creator with the God of the Bible (which I'm happy to do if we're agreed on where we've got to so far). But just saying things like 'This Creator could be the Flying Spaghetti Monster does nothing to disprove the conclusion as far as it goes.

james bejon, romford, essex

Dear Dominic, You say my argument can be used to prove the existence of 'anything that can be imagined and [isn't disprovable]'. Not at all. What my argument proves is the existence of a creator of the universe. So it clearly couldn't be used to prove the existence of, say, Marley's ghost -- unless, that is, you wanted to argue that Marley's ghost created the universe -- but in that case you'd be accepting my argument for a creator & then seeking to supplement it with a further argument identifying the universe's creator with Marley's ghost). In other words, you're right if your point is that my argument only gets me as far as an indeterminate creator. Further arguments would be needed to identify this creator with the God of the Bible (which I'm happy to venture forth if we're agreed on where we've got to so far). But just saying things like 'The Creator could be the Flying Spaghetti Monster' does nothing to disprove the conclusion of my argument as far as it goes.

james bejon, romford, essex

PeterB ::
Sorry but you cannot simply grasp certainties from thin air and claim that somehow they are evidence of themselves, that's just a circular argument.
Wher did your god come from ? Simply asserting that its "outside the rules" blah blah blah "cannot be comprehended" blah blah blah is special pleading and explains nothing. To quote Karl Popper "A theory that explains everything explains nothing".
There is a general sloppiness in the thinking that surrounds the "Universe fine tuning" argument that also strikes me about the Anthropic principles, they are simple circular arguments. They seem to spring from the wholly insane idea that the universe is here solely for our benefit. As I explain earlier imagine you are dealt 10 playing cards, you look at them and declare that the odds of being dealt those particular cards is so remote that it cannot be chance, indeed there must be some designed aspect about the setup of the universe that led to those cards being dealt. That's mad.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Dominic

A miracle (or magic) can be defined as a phenomenon which is inconsistent with the physical laws of nature

God as intelligent designer was able to select and equip our universe at its formation with a very specific set of physical laws which were crucial for the development of stars and planets and for the evolution of mankind. Therefore it is not irrational to conclude that he is also capable of momentarily altering those physical laws at will to create phenomena which you may call magic but what I prefer to call miracles, examples of which are present throughout the Bible

Mankind is the product of a very specific set of physical laws which form the framework of his reality. But if a narrow set of physical laws governs the existence of mankind, then it follows that there must exist a broader spectrum of physical laws from which the discrete set favourable to mankind was selected. What we call magic may just be a momentary manifestation from within the broader spectrum.

PeterB, Lincoln,

PerterB: Did the old testament predict Jesus? Or do you think it more likely that Jesus chose to try and fulfil the scriptures?

Matthew 21:5-7 seems pretty clear that Jesus had every idea he was trying to act according to the well known prophesies and give himself a greater legitimately...

"All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet"

David, London, UK

PeterB - Your claim
"is that as our technological powers of cosmological observation improve, the more we begin to identify space-time phenomena which are consistent with the God of the Bible"

Is not falling on deaf ears, its simply incorrect, there's a difference.
I have given you several chances to give an example of when magic turned out to be the explanation for anything, you have failed.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

The Bible consists of genuine historical writings. However due to the godless philosophies developed in the 18th and 19th centuries, culminating in the murderous atheist regimes of the 20th century, we now have a secular humanist society that largely regards the Bible as irrelevant.
It is little known that the Old Testament actually predicted the life of Christ as described in the New Testament. The writings are genuine, and available for all to read. So if the Bible predicted historical fact over centuries, it cannot be dismissed outright by atheists as farfetched nonsense.

Unlike ridiculous examples of improbability borrowed from well-known atheists, God Himself has been described in genuine historical writings thousands of years ago.

What is uncanny - and it seems that my point is falling on deaf ears - is that as our technological powers of cosmological observation improve, the more we begin to identify space-time phenomena which are consistent with the God of the Bible.

PeterB, Lincoln,

Dear David,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
You say my argument doesn't prove an INTELLIGENT creator. True. This requires a separate argument based on the fine tuning of the initial conditions of the universe.
But, in terms of what the argument DOES cover, what you seem to object to isn't the CONCLUSION (since once you accept that the 'big bang' represents the moment at which space & time first came into existence, it follows that the bang's cause can't itself be another space-time universe), but rather Premise 2 -- i.e. you postulate an eternally oscillating universe which never actually BEGAN to exist.
However there are problems with this view. Firstly, there is no known physics that would reverse the collapse of a prior universe. And, secondly, the density of the current universe suggests it will never stop expanding.
So whilst I'd agree that your theory is as 'understandable' and 'possible' as the God hypothesis, I'd question whether it was as 'probable'.

james bejon, romford, essex

James : You can't claim that because something cannot be disproved that it is any evidence whatever for that proposition, in the absence of any other evidence, magic is invariably revoked.
The problem with this approach is that it follows from this that anything that can be imagined and not disproved is equally true.
These imaginary entities can be given all sorts of special powers by simple application of your idea that they exist outside of time, space, HP Sauce, whatever you specify. As you can see not a shred of positive evidence has been provided. If you say that an ancient work of fiction is evidence, I will say that OK so is "Metamorphoses" by Ovid.
If you say miracles are evidence, I'd say fine prove it and collect James Randi's $1 Million prize that exists for this purpose.
You want to believe something so strongly that your standard of proof is virtually non-existent. Would you apply the same rules if you were serving on a Jury? I hope not.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Since the universe is reckoned to have started from a singularity of time and space resulting in no possibility of measuring or discovering what came before, there is no way we will ever KNOW what was the cause.

All that is left is to argue philosophically about the possibilities. Even as an Atheist I can see some sense in the two premises of James B. however inevitably there is the usual religious leap of faith to decide on an intelligent designer being the cause (eg where is the evidence the designer even has to be intelligent - perhaps God is dumb, bungling fool that accidentally initiated the big bang and is now watching in dumb stupefaction?!)

My own little pet theory, which I have no belief in as it is without evidence, but like to throw around occasionally, is that what might have preceded this universe was another one that collapsed? An infinite line of universes is just as understandable, possible and probable as a timeless God.

David, London, UK

Dear Dominic,

I hope you won't think me presumptuous in trying to challenge your presuppositions, but it seems to me that, in our exchanges to date, your starting point has been that it's impossible, even in principle, to use logic to come to the conclusion that God exists (we'll call this 'Claim A'), and that the rest of your thinking follows from there.

But Claim A requires justification (and if it's true, then you can't use logic to conclude that God DOESN'T exist either, so your arguments tend towards self-refutation).

Moreover, you've been presented with an argument for God's existence, and the way to disprove it is to engage with it.

I push this point not in the hope of winning an argument, but in the hope that you'll become open to the claim that this universe has a Creator, who loves you dearly. Looking at the world's ills, this can seem hard to believe at times. But God may have reasons for allowing our suffering, and if you seek Him, He'll reveal Himself to you.

james bejon, romford, essex

Dear Dominic,

Please let me sum up where I think we've got to thus far (to provide some kind of log of the ground we've covered).

So far, I don't see that you've offered any real refutation of the 3 specific steps of my argument. Instead, you've argued that the conclusion 'God exists' is invalid in itself, no matter how convincing the supporting arguments are. You claim:

a] that God's existing timelessly is illogical (but you state this without justification, and I provide counter-examples)

b] that Occam's razor disallows my drawing the conclusion that God exists (however this is a mis-application, as I show below - if the post appears!)

c] that the FSM can also be proven (however, as I point out, this only calls into question the NATURE of 'god', so is irrelevant until you accept the argument that a timeless, immaterial Creator indeed exists) and

d] that my lottery analogy is fallacious (however I refute this below, & it is moot to the positive argument anyway)

james bejon, romford, essex

Dear Dominic,

Thank you for your continued interest.

You say I can't claim that 'god is not an entity'. Fine. I don't. All I deny is that god is a complex entity.

Next, you imply that the statement 'God is timeless' is illogical. This requires justification. What is illogical about the idea of something's existing outside of time? Philosophers routinely refer to things existing timelessly, e.g. numbers.

(Please see my post below regarding the FSM and 'lottery fallacy').

Regarding Occam's razor: the razor is not a blanket embargo against the existence of other entities (or we'd be forced into solipsism). Rather, it decides between competing explanations that account for a given body of evidence equally well. What, then, is your competing explanation for the existence of the universe?

In closing, however, I want to repeat my call for you to engage with the argument I've given. What is it that you deny? Premise 1, Premise 2, or that the conclusion then follows?

james bejon, romford, essex

PeterB : You have built a magic castle of sand on top of dogma - excellent. Is there any chance of seeing your proof of why this could not have all been done by the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Your idea that scientists are "trying frantically" to disprove the Big Bang is simply hilariious, any cosmologist who says that the big bang theory is not the best one we have would be regarded as perfectly entitled to make that claim (its science, not dogma) after all) but would be invited to explain issues such as the 4K background radiation, Hubble's Law and the spatial configuration of the Universe.
There is one thing however a Big Bang does nothing at all to suggest - this is the presence of a mythical being that created it by magical, unexplained means, Occam's Razor sees to that even if you don't have the common sense to see that directly.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

James : You haven't understood the lottery issue at all - I suggest you look it up, what you are saying is a classic fallacy. To demonstrate what you are saying : imagine you are playing a game of cards that involves being dealt 7 cards - the odds of being dealt the 7 cards you have been (whatever they are) is so remote that something very strange must be going on. Can you see the problem now? You are assigning undue weight to something that is just normal probability.
I am as open to the possibility of a miracle as I am to the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Proof of a miracle would involve repeatability, scientific review and no possible explanation wihin the known laws of physics and no possible fit with any conceivable naturalistic explanation. The whole "Extraordinary claims. . . . " thing uses everyday English in such an ordinary way that I feel that we have a fundamental difference in how we see language even.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

The recent discovery of dark energy is further evidence that the universe is expanding in a manner consistent with its origin in the big bang, prior to which event space and time did not exist. Scientists are frantically trying to prove the opposite - that the
universe had no beginning - but the evidence in favour of the big bang just keeps mounting as our observational technology improves. This isn't magic, it's science. and it leads to some conclusions:

It is impossible that the conditions which gave rise to the formation of the universe developed at random because to do so they would need the medium of time and time did not exist.

If the universe was not formed at random, it is impossible that it could have been formed in any way other than by an intelligent designer. If the intelligent designer created time and space, it is impossible to conclude that he is bound by time and space.If the designer is not bound by time, it is impossible to claim he has an origin or a cause.

PeterB, Lincoln,

James: Your logic is flawed again - you can't have any logical argument that stands up which makes calls to magic as the "god is timeless, god is not an entity" stuff does.
Occam's razor is always valid, what you are doing is called "special pleading" - look it up.
The "logic" of your argument is dismantled above and in my previous posts. Have you come to terms with your misunderstanding of the lottery fallacy yet ?
You don't seem to have any answer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster which by an incredible coincidence is also timeless and beyond rational analysis.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Dear Dominic,

You talk of 'an incredibly complex entity springing from nothing'. But this is irrelevant to my argument, since:

a] whilst God's thoughts & actions may be deemed incredibly complex, God, as such, is not a complex ENTITY (which is what Occam's razor is about); and
b] I never argued that God 'sprang from nothing'. Rather, I argued that God exists timeless -- i.e. eternally -- meaning there was no point in time at which God BEGAN to exist.

But moreover -- and as I said in my initial presentation of the argument -- if you don't like the conclusion that God exists, you have to dispute either the premises or logic of my argument, and your response does neither.

You bring up the FSM. Granted, my argument doesn't get us as far as the God of the Bible. For that, we'll have to examine the claims of the gospels. But one thing at time.

For now, please tell me what your objection is: that my premises are invalid? or that the logic is invalid?

james bejon, romford, essex

Dear Dominic,

In my last post, I claimed that the principle 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' is contravened every week by lottery winners. In response, you say that given the size of the UK's population, someone's bound to win. True, but when people hear their numbers read out over the news, what amazes them isn't that SOMEBODY won - it's that THEY won! Nor do I involve God in this illustration.

You then claim 'something should only be accepted as a miracle if the alternatives are more miraculous'. By 'more miraculous', I assume you mean 'less likely'. But how do you assess the likelihood of a miracle?

I think we're closer to what you mean when you say 'there are always more convincing explanations' for something than miraculous ones. What this seems to mean in practice is that no matter how convincing the evidence, you won't admit a miracle. But why? If you're really interested in the truth, why not at least be open to the possibility of miracles?

james bejon, romford, essex

Peter B : Anyone who says anything is "fundamentally flawed" then proceeds to insist that it was all magic has a severe lack of irony going on. I repeat the question I have asked twice now I believe : Has anything ever been explained by magic ?
Also who designed your intelligent designer ? Surely if something of incredible complexity can come from nothing, then so can anything else - Jeff The God of Biscuits, Simon the God of Hairdos etc

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

PeterB - I missed this staggering piece of misunderstanding of yours

"Evolution is a gradual development over time and time did not exist prior to the big bang. Therefore nothing could have evolved before the big bang"

Has anyone ever asserted that evolution took place before self-replicating molecules existed ? This could only be asserted by someone who fails to understand - well anything really.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

James - Isn't that just a rehash of the Thomas Aquinas "first mover" "proofs" ? They may have impressed in the 13th century but they're pretty sad now.
Its far more improbable that an incredibly complex entity sprang from nothing then created everything from nothing than it is if using Occam's Razor you simply remove the incredibly complex entity.
Secondly - it is just as strong "evidence" for The Flying Spaghetti Monster existng and creating everything basd on small vibrating noodles known as "strings".
If you think what you have come up with proves anything except very shoddy logic then I'm afraid you are mistaken.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

According to the rational atheist, the singularity that preceded the big bang which brought the universe (and space and time) into being, was more likely to have evolved at random than be the product of an intelligent designer.

This reasoning is fundamentally flawed.
Evolution is a gradual development over time and time did not exist prior to the big bang. Therefore nothing could have evolved before the big bang.

The only possible explanation is that the singularity at the beginning of the universe was the product of an intelligent designer and that the intelligent designer exists outside time and space. I prefer to call Him God.

PeterB, Lincoln,

As an atheist I am so pleased and I admit it, smug. Once the born agains and alpha folk extend their tentacles into your life you may as well give them your pin code and car keys as your life now belongs to them. I'm proud to be an atheist and am proud of any former narrow minded thinker to set themselves free from doctrine.

Andrew , Burnopfield, UK

Dear Dominic & Barry,
I don't think theistic arguments need be as empty as you make out. Take the following example:
1) Everything that begins to exist requires a cause
2) The universe began to exist
3) Therefore the universe has a cause
This argument consists of 2 premises (both of which are plausible), and a conclusion (that follows logically).
And once you accept the conclusion that the universe has a cause, it follows that this cause must be spaceless (since it brought space into being), timeless (since it brought time into being), and personal (since, otherwise, its effects would exist timelessly). You're then left with a cause of the universe that sounds remarkably like God.
The point? Believers don't just have to blindly assert God's existence. The above argument relies on 2 premises - which are religiously neutral statements - and the conclusion then follows logically. If you don't happen to like the conclusion, you have to dispute the premises or logic.

james bejon, romford, essex

Brenda - quoting from a book of ancient fairy tales is the surest way I know to get someone like myself rolling my eyes. Have you ever stopped to consider that a book such as Ovid's Metamorphoses, equally old and with the credibility of being written by one man in one go (not tweaked ad infinitum over hundreds of years) is a more believeable source ?

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

PS Alan -- I've just realised that black swans do, in fact, exist! But hopefully you get the point. Ornithology isn't exactly my strong point. Though, having said that, I'm not sure what is...

james bejon, romford, essex

Dear Alan,

Please allow me to respond to some of the points you've made.

You say the claim 'God exists' is unprovable. An example of an argument for God's existence should soon appear on this page -- which you'll then be able to comment on. But, as you'll see, the argument shows it's at least possible to prove that God exists.

You then liken the claim 'God exists' to the claim 'All swans are white'. But this is a false analogy. The claim 'all swans are white' is a universal claim (whereas the claim 'God exists' is singular). In any case, we have good reason to believe that all swans are white on a probabilistic basis. It may not be a mathematical proof, but, at the very least, it's more likely than its negation.

Finally, you define an atheist as someone who 'merely says they do not believe there is a god'. But an agnostic can say as much, hence my claim that this is just agnosticism (please see below), as it still leaves open the question of God's existence.

james bejon, romford, essex

James Bejon - If you define a triangle as a three-sided figure, then it doesn't have to be proved. Neither is the statement that earth is not flat a theory but a statement of observable fact, like saying "this table is round". Strictly speaking, "God exists" is also not a theory, but simply an unprovable claim, like "the spaghetti monster exists". This has nothing to do with theories. - So let's take the well-known theory "all swans are white". You can observe as many white swans as you like, but you can't PROVE the theory. However just one black swan is enough to falsify the theory. That, James, is how theories work, logically. - Incidentally, your dictionary is wrong. It is incorrect to say that "atheists BELIEVE there is no god", No, "atheists (if they are entirely logical) merely say they DO NOT BELIEVE there is a god". Notice the subtle difference?

alan, cologne,

God made mankind upright,
but men have gone in search of many schemes.

I saw all that God has done. No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all his efforts to search it out, man cannot discover its meaning. Even if a wise man claims he knows, he cannot really comprehend it.

As you do not know the path of the wind,
or how the body is formed in a mother's womb,
so you cannot understand the work of God,
the Maker of all things

Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
or the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
or the wheel broken at the well,

***Ecclesiastes***

Brenda M Solares, Los Angeles, CA

James : The "lottery falllacy" - how amusing - the odds are known - approx 13.9 million to 1 against any one line matching the winning set of balls - remind me of the population of the UK again ?
The problem you have with using odds in the case of mythical entities is that by definition the odds are infinity to one against - not terribly clever.
I did post an explanation of the origin of "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" but it hasn't been published here - it comes originally from the philosopher David Hume who pointed out that something should only be accepted as a miracle if the only alternatives were even more miraculous. Given that most events recorded by humans are subject to mistaken beliefs and lack of knowledge, these are always more convincing explanations.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Jonathan, don't lose your faith over thoughts that things are going as well as they used to. There is always another factor and things turn out different ways for reasons, sometimes which might not seem obvious at first. I always admired you for your faith and I hope you can come through this tough phase.

David, Glasgow,

I think it is very important for other Christians who are reading this to unite together and pray for people who backslide.

Some Christians when they retire feel like they lose an identity (that being sport/work/position), but what they don't see due to an unclear mind is that their identity was always God.

Proverbs 3:5 says ' Trust in the Lord God with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding'

Everyone has doubts about life, situations, human nature makes us insecure and always looking for answers, what people don't realise is that God puts Christians to the test, some people fail at the first hurdle but God can only pick them up and help them along if they want to.

I could talk all day about spiritual attacks but I suppose the important thing for me about this article about the person but rather to offer support and prayer to those who read and might fall into the trap

Darren Nixon, Newtownards, Northern Ireland

Quantum theories which seek to prove that the universe had no beginning are being pursued vigorously. However observations continue to show that the universe is still expanding at a rate consistent with the big bang. So we must accept, however grudgingly, that space and time had a beginning and that before that event they did not exist. So whatever conditions brought the universe into being, whether they be random or intentional, these conditions or causes must exist outside space and time.
Historical writings tell us that God the creator of the universe exists outside space and time. Is this a coincidence?

PeterB, Lincoln,

I can't believe atheists can't accept that the best explanation for life the universe and everything is a badly compiled book of bronze age mythology.

These arrogant fundamentalist heathens have the audacity to ask for any shed of evidence to verify that ancient superstitions are true and furthermore go as far as accepting the masses of demonstrable facts that conflict with biblical accounts of how things happened.

What is the world coming to? Can atheism explain where I lost my keys? No I didn't think so, but God could, ergo God exists.

Barry, Newbury,

Good on Edwards. He's done the right thing by being honest. I sincerely hope that if he finds some sort of faith again, it will be based on his own decisions, not on what was stamped into his brain from the time he was born. And if he should not, that's fine too. I hope his Christian friends will not leave him over that - a good friendship is not worth throwing away over religious differences. I also hope they do not see this as a chance to try and bring him back to the flock, with no regard for what he thinks or believes.

EAD, New Haven,

PeterB : To summarise then - the creation of the universe is so improbable that it must be magic. Could you point me at any phenomena that was once a mystery but has since been solved by an explanation that it was magic ?

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Dear Dominic,

Allow me to comment on your response.

You say a negative can't be proven. This is a strange claim (and, worse still, a self-refuting one, since it seeks to prove a negative itself). In any case, what about statements like: 'There are no 4-sided triangles' or 'The earth is not flat'? Aren't these provable negatives?

Regarding my definition of atheism, dictionary.com tells me atheism is 'the doctrine or belief that there is no God'. Do you define the term otherwise? If so, how? You say an atheist 'requires positive evidence' to believe in God; but, on this definition, I'm an atheist as well!

Finally, you say 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'. I'm not sure what this means. If 'extraordinary' means unlikely, I don't see any reason to believe you -- after all, people believe they've won the lottery on the basis of fairly routine broadcasts. And if 'extraordinary' means supernatural, what would class as an extraordinary experience?

james bejon, romford, essex

The fundamental argument of the rational atheist is based on probabilities:
That the universe occurred at random is less improbable than the occurrence at random of a God who made it.
A creator would have to be more complex than the created and it is less likely that a more complex thing will occur at random than a less complex thing.
Therefore, unlikely as it may be that the universe originated at random, the origin of a complex God who made it is even less likely.

The above reasoning is flawed.
Space and time only began with the formation of the universe, and therefore the cause of the universe (which I will call God) must have existed beyond space and time. God is outside time and therefore can have no origin or cause, and is outside space and therefore can have no material complexity.

Therefore the atheist cannot rely on the complexity-related improbabilities of God's origin as a justification for favouring the less improbable random formation of the universe.

PeterB, Lincoln, Lincs

Dominic Shields says
' A rational atheist as I would describe it also doesn't remotely see why anything needs to be worshipped, real or imaginary. '

This is because a rational athiest (or any unbeliever) doesn't want to. They have a bias against God and don't want any moral accountabilty towards Him. This is the biblical view.

Why don't you seriously seek God?

David, Wirral, England

Dear Dominic,

Allow me to comment on your thoughtful response.

You claim that a negative cannot be proven. This seems a strange claim (and, worse still, a self-refuting one, since it seeks to prove a negative itself). Anyway, what about statements like: 'There are no 4-sided triangles' or 'The earth isn't flat'. Aren't these provable negatives?

Regarding my definition of atheism, dictionary.com tells me that atheism is 'the doctrine or belief that there is no God'. Do you define it otherwise? If so, how? You say an atheist 'requires positive evidence' to believe in God. Fine, but I am an atheist on this definition!

You say that 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'. I am not sure what this means. If 'extraordinary' means unlikely, I don't see any reason to agree (after all, people believe they've won the lottery on the basis of fairly routine reports). And if 'extraordinary' means supernatural, then what classes as an 'extraordinary' experience?

james bejon, romford, essex

Ryan says, as do many, "Religious activity can neither save nor satisfy. Empty tradition can't. If it's just a show on the outside, then you're gonna feel empty pretty soon. Only God can save. Only a relationship with the living God through Christ can save and bring utter fulfilment and joy."

I'd agree that empty tradition can't save. You're quick blaming this deconversion on emptiness.

How do you deduce that it has to be Christ? Why not Allah, or Brahman, or one of the others? Or how about following Buddha, or just working it out as a secular humanist? Maybe religion is like sports psychology. Different brands suit different people.

How someone can deduce from some feelings they get, or looking at a flower, that everything in the bible is true and all the similar experiences that others have based on different holy books or no holy books are wrong?

I wish Mr Edwards well with whatever he discovers in life.

Richard, Leeds, UK

ALL HAIL ZEUS AND ARES, THEY SHALL SMITE YOUR PUNY GOD AND DROWN THE WORLD IN MEAD AND WINE.

Seriously, how will praying to the gods of antiquity differ to the worship of boring ol'jehova/allah?

Bring back the old greek gods in my opinion, I'll buy a bottle of blue nun for dionysus then go to an orgy, followed by a brief war with the persians, it will be brilliant! All atheists invited because the greek gods aint' picky.

George K, West Drayton, UK

To all those athiests who really want absolute proof that God exists - why don't you try seriously praying to Him - then He might even answer you.

Jeremiah 29:13 'You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.'

David, Wirral, England

Hmmm... There for the lack of god go I.

Matt Wallace, AKA The Compleat Heretic, Greensboro, NC, USA

James - Romford - you say "Atheism tends to be the stronger claim that 'There is no God', which requires demonstration. "
This is the classic logical error that plagues these debates, as you probably know any book on logic will say the exact opposite as you are asking that a negative be proved (see The Flying Spaghetti Monster).
I think your definition of atheist is also wrong - an agnostic doesn't know so keeps what they would call an open mind. An atheist requires positive evidence to accept something and to paraphrase someone else "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". A rational atheist as I would describe it also doesn't remotely see why anything needs to be worshipped, real or imaginary.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

David,

Thank you for your response. I'd like to come back to you on some of it.

You say atheism is 'an absence of belief'. But I think this is just agnosticism, since an absence of belief still leaves open the question as to whether God exists. Atheism tends to be the stronger claim that 'There is no God', which requires demonstration.

Your claim that the universe has always existed is fairly radical, since it contradicts almost every modern-day textbook on astrophysical cosmology (to say nothing of the deep philosophical problems involved with having an infinite past). If atheism relies on such claims, it is on shaky ground.

You then claim that morals are 'arbitrary'. Do you really mean this? This would mean there was nothing objectively wrong with what Hitler did. His view of morality was just 'different' from other people's, but no better or worse. Is this what you believe?

You finally claim that religious belief is, by definition, irrational. On what/whose definition?

james bejon, romford, essex

Chris Westbrook

Bad idea to use the writings of Tacitus and Josephus as proof of Jesus' divinity. You ask if they wrote porkies; unfortunately they did! Josephus loved to big up his own role in the Jewish revolt and Tacitus was not above an anti imperial slant as he belonged to the eclipsed aristocracy.

Secondly, even if they acknowledged the existence of the historic character Jesus (it's a long time since I read either so I'll take your word for it) that does not make him divine. Mohammed was an historical character too. Do you recognize him as divinely inspired too? That will lead you into one hell of a religious muddle. Also, reporting the existence of a belief does not make that belief true or imply your own acceptance of it. You can be an historian of communism for example without being a communist.

I'm all for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I have witnessed miracles at childrens feeding time and am amazed that others already know the WORD of HIM. Spread the word.

Mutley, London,

Dear Josu,

You say it's science's job (not atheism's) to explain the origin of the universe. OK. How does science explain it?

Surely what we're discussing here is whether a theistic or atheistic worldview makes better sense out of the world around us. So for me to ask for explanations for such things, and atheists to keep responding by saying 'I don't have to explain that' seems odd.

You ask if I think my morals are superior to yours because they stem from the Bible. This wasn't my claim. What I was asking was how the objectivity of morals (which you seem to admit given your use of the word 'superior') can be explained in the absence of God.

Finally, you seem to regard my citing of the empty tomb as evidence for the resurrection as circular. This is not the case. Many historians and skeptics alike admit the empty tomb on the basis of how well attested it is historically. They simply explain it some other way (eg that the body was never put there in the first place).

james bejon, romford, essex

PeterB : Lincoln : That's a lot of words to say "We don't yet know, therefore the answer must be magic".
You ended on a superb "And with a single bound, god was free" bit of logic - excellent and greatly unhindered by evidence.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

I would only hope that Mr Edwards at some point in future will realise that a religion free of doubt--as a faith-- is futile...and I would point to atheism as such a doubt-free faith. I hope he will learn to tolerate uncertainty and, after that, return to some understanding of religion's role in describing and understanding the mystery of humankind's existence.

It may be too late for him to regain his love of Jesus Christ, but he may find some peace elsewhere in one of the Eastern philosophy-religions, maybe...just maybe.

Mary Shelley, London,

Jonathan Edwards is a great athlete, a role model for any youngster and his drug of choice ( or addiction?) was God! I would marginally prefer this to chemicals ingested.

I have this feeling that God is just a chemical reaction in the brain after all. My addiction/illness was cured by the horrific death of my grandmother,after a life of service to this God and a reward of 13 years of pain.

I could go on but will refrain except to say If there is one god then there are a billion gods .

David Mills, London, England

Relativity theory stipulating a cosmological singularity at the beginning of space and time has been consistently proven. The quantum theory of gravity however - which hopes to prove the universe had no beginning - still lacks convincing observational cosmological evidence despite the massive ongoing efforts of our best scientific brains. This means that at the limits of our knowledge, time and space and matter all began with the formation of our four-dimensional universe. The cause - and cause there must be - of our universe must therefore exist outside time, space and matter.
What a coincidence? The Bible - and churchmen ever since - have been saying exactly the same thing about God. He exists outside time and therefore has no origin; is not constrained by space hence his ubiquity; and is not bound by matter because He is Spirit.

PeterB, Lincoln, Lincs

Dear Carl,

OK. Replace 'does atheism explain...' with 'can a non theistic worldview account for...' and repeat the same process. Surely it would be nice for one's worldview to be able to give an account of the world in which one lives!?

james bejon, romford, essex

To james bejon.

Atheism doesn't pretend to explain the origin of the universe. It's science that tries to do so. Atheism only says you don't need to believe in magic, or in obscure texts written thousands of years ago. Remember Galileo?

About moral, do you affirm that yours is superior to mine, only because is written in a book? (Gay marriage ban is really written in that book?)

The use of the 'empty tomb of Jesus' as an evidence is a very nice example that your faith is self-explicative. No matter how many times you are found to be wrong.

It is very difficult to get out of the brainwash we all get since children. I did it, and I congratulate Mr. Edwards. Welcome to the brave new world, and enjoy.

Josu, Bask Country, Spain

James Portsmouth : Have a look around you, how many things we take for granted were created by science ? How many by prayer and supernatural entities ? I'm not looking for easy mystical certainties, I want solid, reproducable evidence. If the evidence contradicts the previous theory, then the theory must be modified or overthrown, this is why science always progresses whilst dogma mires us in the past. To say that something "transcends the laws of nature" is to accept that it does not exist. Tell you what - try living for a week without using anything created by science, that includes electricity, cars, phones, TV, computers, radio - I think you'll find you would be essentially living in the dark ages where supernatural beliefs belong.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Why does atheism have to be a faith ? For me it is the default position and nothing else , I do not have faith that there is no god , Just that God does not exist in the forms that we are sold in any current religion . I have faith in myself and that is more than enough for me ! I don't worship false idols :)

Benzo, Nr Chelmsford,

People can conduct simple experiments to see how science has described the universe.

People cannot hope to see a living manifestation of a supernatural being on demand.

It's crazy that some religious types think that belief in something that cannot be seen or proved can be compared to something that can be observed and studied in nature.

Science does not have all the answers, because people are still using their intelligence and passion finding and proving them. Science is more than an exhausted 2000 year old book filled with assumptions and fairy tales, written by mad men who were so fortunate enough to be labelled prophets by the gulliable.

George K, West Drayton, UK

As a lifelong religious sceptic (well since I was about 12 anyway) it is good to see a celebrated Christian release himself from the shackles of faith. Faith is a disease of the mind: it stifles the ability to question; it anesthatises the individual making him / her impervious to reason; and leads the individual into the error of certainty. I trust that Jonathan will come to know the joy of thinking for oneself.

James Bannon, Paisley, Scotland

Yes, James, some of those questions have been answered by science, others can be answered by using your brain.

starling, Lancaster,

James:
One does not have 'faith' in atheism: it is an absence of belief rather than a positive belief, and I think that different atheists will have different answers to your questions... here are a few of mine though:

-The very idea that the universe had an origin seems to me, fallacious: As one enlightenment thinker wrote: "it is easy to conceive that that which cannot cease to exist, must have always been".
-Regarding one's intuitions on morality; we are by nature, valuing beings, and moral concepts are not exempt to this valuing process; your feelings are just reactions to value judgements, which of course, are arbitrary and that is why, for example some highly egregious people (Hitler) have considered themselves very moral.
-Religious belief is, by definition irrational; maybe you are confusing having reasons for believing with being rational.
-Btw, you're sitting on a conceptual contradiction: using logic in to argue for a belief in something which is, illogical.

David Farrell, London,

James bejon.. Atheism is just not believing that some invisible/all powerfull (which of course is logically impossible) fella made everything the way it is just for us.. it doesn't give answears in itself.. but if by your question you refer to the various branches of science then the answear to all your questions is Yes.....

katie, London,

To James Bejon:

Does atheism explain the origin of the universe?
No, as atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity or deities. It makes no claims about the origin of the universe. Science explains, as best it can, the origins of the universe.
Does it explain why anything exists as opposed to nothing at all?
Again, no. It doesn't claim to and, as such, doesn't need to. You may as well ask "does Microsoft explain why we are here?" And again science explains, as best it can, how we are here (there is no ‘why’)
Does it explain my feelings of 'free will'? (Or must I class these experiences as illusory to maintain my faith in atheism?)
You don’t get it do you? No, it doesn’t. Anthropology, biology and psychology (among others) explain this, atheism does not claim to or need to.
Are thoughts & beliefs even the sorts of things that material beings should be having?
Wha….? Why not?

Carl, Aylesbury, UK

The theme of personal religious beliefs as being a major motivational factor in high achievers is not uncommon. The problem arises when these beliefs are confused with the great organised religions which can imbue the believer with a sense of security (and dare I say righteousness) that has no logical foundation.

In this age of free information flow the average man on the street now realises that to achieve their heart’s desires is largely down to themselves rather that to any benevolent master or higher being. It’s hard to understand how a book written 2000 years ago and subsequently modified over the ages to suit the prevailing conditions can be reliably interpreted in a modern context. True, organised religion had its place in the past but I believe these ancient texts are becoming irrelevant over time.

Jonathan Edwards should be proud of his achievements as an individual, irrespective of his chosen motivation (we all have our own) and look forward to a life less complex.

Ali, Tunbridge Wells,

There's a lot here about questioning one's faith in Christianity. But what about questioning one's faith in atheism?

What about asking questions like:

- Does atheism explain the origin of the universe?
- Does it explain why anything exists as opposed to nothing at all?
- Does it explain my feelings of 'free will'? (or must I label these feelings as illusory to maintain my faith in atheism?)
- Are thoughts & beliefs the sorts of things that material beings should even be having?
- Does atheism explain my compunction that certain actions are objectively right, and others objectively wrong?
- Does it explain why, even if Hitler had managed to convert the whole world to his cause, he would still have been wrong?
- Does it explain the post-humous appearances of Jesus, and the empty tomb he left behind him?

Ultimately, of course, Christians believe not because of arguments, but because of a personal encounter with God himself, but this doesn't make their faith irrational.

james bejon, romford, essex

The fact that Jonathan Edwards doubts/disbelieves in the existence of God does not alter the fact of whether he does or not. As a Christian I believe that he does. For me there is sufficent evidence.

For those who call themselves athiests, and argue that this event supports their world view, how can it be a credible belief system? Science does not know everything, how can you (unless you are God)? It is an act of faith to believe something when you lack the full picture.

For those whose faith is in evolution, it is at best a scientific model and not a fact even though it is taught as such. It requires an awful lot of faith in blind chance, also, it cannot answer/explain where all matter came from. The universe had a beginning. When science can answer this question, then maybe science might have something to say regarding the existence of God.

Kevin Blow, sheffield,

So what's all the hullaballoo?

If you do not believe in a God and then, when you pop your clogs, it seems there is one, I guess you'll find out there is a God.... If we get assigned to burn in eternity for being an unbeliever on earth then, frankly, I don't want to be associated with such a vengeful and egotistical spiritual power! Sounds more like a Devil than a God to me.

Religion, it seems to me is for people with no courage, moral code or imagination. But if it makes them feel better and they don't blow me up in an airport because I don't then good luck to them!

Mark, Birmingham, UK

Dominic Cardiff – May I suggest that you read some of Thomas Kuhn’s “Scientific Revolutions” or maybe a bit of Wittgenstein’s “On Certainty” in order to see that the case you seem to be making for science and rationality might not be so watertight after all. Furthermore, consider what it would mean for God to exist. If He did exist He would necessarily transcend the laws of nature (having created them) and hence laws like cause and effect need not apply. Just because we cannot understand how something can create itself, it doesn’t mean that it cannot happen, and to assume otherwise is a form of intellectual arrogance. In other words, I find it hard to see how the gravitas you place on science and rationality is in any way more warranted than that placed on God and the Bible by Christians. Just as Jonathan Edwards took the time to scrutinise his Christian beliefs, I suggest you take the time to scrutinise your own intellectual ones.

James, Portsmouth,

"The universe must have a cause" (PeterB) WHY IS THIS ARGUMENT USED SO MUCH!?!? Things do not need a reason, things do not need a cause. our knowledge of time and space (spacetime) is lmited. The general theory of relativity and quantum mechanics are not complete theories and every day scientists get closer to finding answers to our most fundamental questions. Why do so many people believe that just because 'gaps' exist in scientific theories then it must be God who fills them? "We do not know what happened before the big bang then it MUST have been God triggering creation" SO ANNOYING! Scientific progress will continue, the gaps will be filled, and when there are no more gaps left where will religion turn? Faith will be the last leg it stands on and only the most foolish will cling to this when the pure truth of science stands glaring at them from all around.

Dave, Warrington,

If there truly is a God, then why are children brainwashed into believing in him? Surely it should be so blatantly obvious that it would not require the "story" to be told, and through the experiences of a child's journey to adulthood should be the only conclusion they can reach?

If believers really had "faith" in their God, they'd be secure enough to allow their children to make that discovery for themselves, rather than hammering propaganda into their heads the second they're old enough to understand language.
Children are extremely vulnerable to imprinting. They happily believe in Santa and the tooth fairy after all. It is actually a sinister practice when you think about it rationally. Rational thought is not welcomed in religion however. After all, if most believers thought rationally about some of the atrocities and abhorrent practices God is purported to have carried out or promoted according to the Bible, one could only question why anyone would worship such an evil being.

Barry Sinclair, Glasgow,

What a refreshing change ! Always a pleasure to see genuine people come to their senses .

Benzo, Nr Chelmsford,

PeterB : You have fallen into the "Einstein did not wear socks - therefore wearing socks is wrong" fallacy - Stephen Hawking is an absolutely outstanding individual but I don't think he would see himself as our greatest scientist and even if he was that is an opinion, not experimentally validated. As it happens in New Scientist yesterday there was a very interesting article on the latest Big Bang thinking - note "Thinking", not dogma.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. - John 3:16

Don't believe religion, believe the Son of God!

Suz, Glasgow,

There have been thousands of different religions in the world, yet most people here are arguing of the existance of just one god.

For that reason, everyone who has posted here is an athiest, they all renounce the existance of one or more gods. When the religious types understand this, then this topic can become a reasonable discussion. Stop pulling facts out of your bottoms and argue with some tact.

There are 3 big religious books, a 4000 year old one, a 2000 year old one, and a 1400 year old one. None of them will ever explain the universe without mentioning a large bearded man who created it. True knowledge lies in taking the initiative and finding things out for yourself, instead of bending over and let the writtings of millenia old madmen influence you.

Less theism, more deism, and eventualy atheism.

George K, West Drayton, UK

So that's what it was after all! 2000 years later we've finally found the answer! A zealous Jew intent on destroying the church has an "epileptic fit" on the road to Damascus. As a result of the "epileptic fit", he radically changes his life, travels across the Roman empire with the ideas he got from his experience, writes some of the greatest literature the world has ever seen (see for example his discourse on faith (Romans 3-4) and on love (1 Corinthians 13)) , and ultimately helps turn the whole Roman world upside down.

Come on BBC, give us a break.

Hugh , Xining, China,

Kenny : "What is rational about life?"
I think you have cleverly mixed up two entirely different concepts into the one to obscure things nicely.
People often behave in irrational ways - you cannot therefore extrapolate from this as I imagine you seek to do that natural phenomena have supernatural expanations. The natural world is completely "rational" if we are not anthropormorphising it and not placing on it our subjective judgement. An example would be the ridiculous idea often put forward that goes "A rose is beautiful - therefore there is a god". This is an argument of the form "Opinion therefore Completely unrelated assertion"

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

PeterB, you sound like some Hindus and Buddhists who make it appear as though quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity are contained in their scriptures. Read "The Tao of Physics"?

Religionists cite scientific findings only when it suits them. How many scientists believe the earth is 6,000 years old? What are Hawking's views on this?

Besides, Genesis itself is not original; it is a copy of older Sumerian legends. So much for divine inspiration!

Paul, Kochi, India

The Bible says that to God a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day, meaning that God is outside time. Our greatest scientist Stephen Hawking said that time only began at the start of the universe and did not exist before that event. The universe must have a cause and therefore the cause of the universe must be outside time. Why did it take thousands of years of techological advancement and a scientific genius to arrive at the same conclusion as the Bible?

PeterB, Lincoln, Lincs

Having gone through a similar "reverse" epiphany as Jonathan (and from an even more extreme background I would think) I can only say to those who quote trite evangeliculture comments - please be honest intellectually.
The requirement of evangelical faith is NOT to be believe in an amorphous god, but rather in an absolute faith in an absolute (and absolutist) God. No liberal views, no muslims, jews, hindus (no matter how sincere, convinced etc) AND then to insist that in fact the whole package is logical (and to construct a world view in accordance). This is not to denigrate religion, faith or evangelicalism, just to point out that when the "non-exceptionalism" of any person's faith is suddenly made clear, whether something is TRUE or not actually does matter. Please be honest, you all think he is going to hell, and that is the critical point. Grace is great, but by no means isolated to the evangelical church (and very often absent from it).

David, London,

James: please first read the Church's rationale behind opposing abortion, gay marriage and other such issues you mention before dismissing them out of hand. Then say if they are nonsense. Remember, the Church is primarily concerned about upholding the dignity of every human being, particularly the weak, innocent and unprotected. That cannot be outlandish nonsense except to someone whose mind is closed and has no desire for truth.
Dominic: believing you need material evidence rather than faith is most certainly a creed: it's a belief in the infallibility of science to tell you all you need to know. To quote Chesterton: "it's rather foolish to trust in the conclusions of science for the simple reason that science has not concluded." Your search for truth, however, is certainly to be commended.

Ted, Rome, Italy

There's a lot here about questioning one's faith in Christianity. But what about questioning one's faith in atheism?

What about asking questions like:

- Does atheism explain the origin of the universe?
- Does it explain why anything exists as opposed to nothing at all?
- Does it explain my feelings of 'free will'? (Or must I class these experiences as illusory to maintain my faith in atheism?)
- Are thoughts & beliefs even the sorts of things that material beings should be having?
- Does atheism explain my compunction that certain things are objectively right, and others objectively wrong?
- Does it explain why, even if Hitler had managed to convert the whole world to his cause, he would still have been wrong?
- Does it explain the post-humus appearances of Jesus, and the empty tomb he left behind him?

Ultimately, of course, Christians believe not on the basis of arguments but on the basis of a personal encounter with God himself. But why should this make their faith irrational?

james bejon, romford, essex

Ted from Rome: Us atheists are fervent in our wish to prove religionists wrong for that very reason, you ARE wrong in many of your claims (and that's not my lack of faith declaring that, but observable science). And where your claims cannot be disproven we offer possibilities not 'divine' fact.

We do not depend on ancient revelations, a muddle of gospels or a confusion of conflicting texts to arrive at answers that are unconvincing even to children. It is the weakness of certain theologies that lead the faithful to turn from reasoned debate to violent protestations.

We are concerned about the truth, so when viewing the false authority, struggling dogmas and obstinate stubbornness of religions' reluctance to accept its past (and current) lies, Atheists (and all humans) act on their duty to protect the innocent that are being harmed as a result.

Dave, London, UK

I must say I am with James Mitchell on this one. Ted's comment is a familiar one. That of church attempting to gag debate about religion. I think that the great value in announcing one's lack of belief in a deity is to offer support to those who have been brought up with religious beliefs, but who have become unsure about them. Not, in fact, to attempt to change believers' minds. It's always helpful to hear another's point-of-view.

Peter Wardle, Moss Vale, Australia

I respect Mr. Edwards for his honesty and bravery, I do not follow the same beliefs that he now holds but I wish him luck with his future. That is not to say that I hope Jesus doesn't come into his life again, I hope and pray he will find the same happiness and security as I do in Christ. None of us have all the answers so lets not pretend that we do, but I just have faith that I know this one.

Karen, London, England

Mr Edwards has understood the most important bit of his bible better than 99% of all Christians and that is to know thy self. He saw from self analysis that belief is closely related to desire which ultimately is born out of selfishness. You wicked people-Bong hits for Jesus!!

Jake daniel, Stockholm, Sweden

Ted Rome - Enlighten me, what am I a "believer" in ?
As a free clue, if no reliable, repeatable evidence can be provided then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist. If that's a belief position then Not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Framing other people's positions as a "belief system" is a well-worn trick. The court and jury system which requires that evidence be put forward and a decision made on the balance of that evidence is as far as I am aware never referred to as a "Belief System", rather a logical method of arriving at the truth.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Ted, I think most atheists would be happy to leave religionists to their delusions if they left us alone. Unfortunately their extraordinary claims to knowledge concerning the demands of powerful sky beings, souls, after-lifes, etc, influence all sorts of social policies including gay rights, abortion, scientific research (e.g. stem cells), foreign policy (e.g. middle east), assisted dying, school curricula, etc. Under such circumstances it seems responsible to point out the feeble basis for religionists claims.

james mitchell, London, uk

Dominic Shields of Cardiff: it's always a mystery to me why atheists such as yourself become so fervent in their wish to prove religionists wrong. Your fundamentalism is hard to distinguish between those who purport to believe in a creed. Your logical position is surely to say nothing and leave religionists to their own delusions. Otherwise what prompts you to try and bring these people out of their 'misguided' beliefs? Free will, compassion, love? And where do these apparently selfless concerns come from? Simple matter? You're a believer but I'm afraid you don't know it.

Ted, Rome, Italy

David - Wirral - I think you are confused, there is a huge global consensus among scientists that global climate change is caused by human activity and a highly vocal minority espousing different views - this is because science is not dogma. Interestingly it is exactly this kind of woolly logic that seems to underpin much of the religious thought in this discussion.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Spock. Wow! If one points out the poor evidence, contradictions and immorality of the bible then one is as bad as the christian crusaders or jihadists!!! Tell that to the innumerable people slaughtered by the later! I suspect they would prefer the stern rational deconstruction of their beliefs than the torture and murder of the later. The lack of logic belies your name.

james mitchell, London, UK

I would like to congratulate Jonathan on having the courage to renounce his faith. It must have been a difficult decision as he was renowned as a Christian and it was always clear that his faith was of great importance to his career.

Rational thinking can overcome even the strongest faith.

H Longton, Boston, UK

It feels like a lot of people are suddenly urging to me to see that my faith is ridiculous. This article is a clear example of faith being seen as a meaningless delusion, and says that JE should be applauded for refusing to continue the charade.

Of course it's going to make me feel a bit bleak. But all I can do is look for the truth, not yours or the church's but The Truth. By no means do I know it all already. But I still believe in God.

Anna, Isle of Wight, UK

It's good that he has retained the goodness to elaborate on his internal debates and share with us. Particularly noteworthy, is that he has done so and has not condemned his formerly-fellow believers as blind simpletons. As any Rational person knows, everyone wrestles with faith. Be it faith in Darwin and a godless big-bang, or faith that all the atoms in the universe didn't spring up automatically from a timeless void. But too many fundamentalists of the Religion of Atheism, in crusading zealotry to evangelize the world to their pure & logical cause, are as cruel and atrocious in denouncing opposing views as were crusaders of Christianity, or jihadists of Islam... you name it. I've struggled greatly to understand why anyone would have the arrogance to declare we who don't practice their beliefs to be "delusional"... "illogical"... "blind"... "nonsensical"... devoted to "so-called" beliefs. Atheistic blind faith in their logic implies they have all the answers. I question that.

Mr. Spock, Kokomo, United States

Just because we have the small details of a snow flake, a baby in the womb, rainbows, sunsets and the intricate workings of a human being, animals, plants and evolution - this doesnt mean it was the design of a master being, a god!

it may have simply always been like this, always! - never created, never ending, just.... just there with no creator, no owner, and no purpose.

thats hard for a human to compehend as we are born and then die so we search for a meaning or a purpose to life. But there may not be any purpose, or meaning, or god, it may all be there just because its always been there. that is in fact a distinct possibilty! - equally as much of a possibility of christ dining out with his friends on magic mushrooms and having "visions" or infact equally as much as we ARE all here for a grand purpose.

No one knows, no one has proof, so good on JE for being so open minded and facing up to REALITY!

David Jones, Swansea, WALES

I have discerned from this article that he is a fair-weather zealot. I had no respect for him as an intellectual before and even less now. He is not an atheist. He is what Christians call Jonah and muslims call Yunus.

The common dogma of fundamentalists is fear of modern knowledge, inability to cope with the fast change in a scientific-technological society, and the real breakdown in apparent moral order in recent years. That is why hate is the major fuel, fear is the cement of the movement, and superstitious ignorance is the best defense against the dangerous new knowledge. When you bring up arguments that cast serious doubts on their cherished beliefs you are not simply making a rhetorical point, you are threatening their whole Universe and their immortality. That provokes anger and quite frequently violence. You cannot reason with them and you even risk violence in confronting them. Their numbers will only decline when society stabilizes and adapts to modernity.

Aaron, Dallas, Texas

Ted Rome : Miracles are evidence ? Evidence of nothing but human gullibility.
Alice Moscow : Looking at a rose is evidence ? That's just plain ridiculous, just because we find something beautiful is just an aesthetic judgement, if we look at somehing we find repulsive is that also evdence for god ?
The total absence of logic among the believers is evidence for brainwashing.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

"Wrote some bloke 2000 years ago. Why is that any more true than Harry Potter?"

The only similarity between the Harry Potter books and the Bible is that they both deal with the supernatural!!

The Bible was written over a period of 1600 years, by various men inspired by God. It is the most powerful book on the face of the earth, with the message of salvation to those who believe.

Also, an epileptic fit would not cause the apostle Paul to turn around his life completely from being the persecutor to being the persecuted! Why would this amazing man have endured so much to bring the Gospel to so many had it not been for the power of God.

1Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

nick, UK,

I have no belief system other than treat others with trust until they prove you wrong. I have no fear of death being the end, as birth was the beginning. I have a reasonable life which is not spectacular in any way. I work with children who are disabled, some profoundly, who are taken to assembly and preached to, despite not understanding a word that is said. Even the head teacher taking the assembly does not believe. There are too many liars in our midst who promote themselves as believers in a god but are not eg pedophile priests, and other abusers of trust. Jonathan has merely exchanged his former belief system for another. What is the big deal?

dodger, Perth, Scotland

Science can also not prove or disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who blessed us with His noodly appendage.

Nor can it prove or disprove the existence of fairies, angels, Thor, Zeus, Heaven, Hell, the boogeyman and any other metaphysical thing you happen to place your belief in.

And since Science is our best possible description of Reality; since it is the only logical, rational and systematically testable process (complete with error-correcting mechanisms!) to explain the Universe that we find ourselves in...

...well, you get the drift.

Anything that does not have the *capacity* to be both proven *as well as* disproven (which is ofter far more important) does not exist within the realm of Science; therefore it must exist outside of Science, in the realm of Fantasy.

Faith and Belief are used by those that do not have the mental capacity to handle the tools of logic and reason. Science is based on evidence and proof; Religion relies on trust and faith.

René Kabis, Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada

I am sad for Jonathan Edwards if, as Matthew Syed's article implies, his faith crumbled after experts 'raised the possibility of St Paul's conversion being caused by an epileptic fit'. What a pity he didn't spend more time thinking about everything else Paul did after this apparent fit. St Paul shaped the early church and gave it an intellectual, moral, and spiritual basis that has stood the test of time pretty well to those who earnestly seek to explore both sides of the God question. No, you can't prove God's existence - that is the very basis of faith. If I knew of God's existence then I wouldn't need faith and I'd be afraid to sin - I'd be compelled rather than invited to live authentically. Sadly, the poor state of religious education in our schools equips few people to competently evaluate the most important questions in life: where do I come from? What is my purpose? Will I survive beyond death? How should I live my life? Me? I simply lack the faith to be an atheist.

John, Barnham, Sussex, UK

A high level sporting career takes (as Jonathan says in the interview) so much time and passion that there is no energy left for anything else - it's a great way of avoiding thinking about anything, and its loss can lead to all sorts of reactions as the former athlete has lost the pivotal reason for being in their life. I don't suppose this is the final word - his balance will reassert itself and then he will be able to think clearly. If you haven't had to think about anything except getting to (and through) the next training session for most of your life there is suddenly a scary amount of space to fill, and all sorts of questions (like 'who am I if not an athlete?'). There's very little support for people emerging blinking into the world that doesn't train 3 times a day (the one that most people inhabit) - there should be more

Pauline, Kingston upon Thames, Surrey

There are always arguments both in favour and against the existence of God and ones life can be spent arguing with the opposing side.
if you have found your answer and comfortable with it you have achieved which others havent. Let not the views of others be forced upon you but welcome others arguments and thoughts to strengthen your personal belief. The maximum wars in human history is due to religion and beliefs.
Whether there is a God or No God will take a few more centuries of Human Evolution to understand our Cosmos. With the current discoveries and awareness of the human mind it is still too puny to understand the answers we are seeking for.

Gora Rakshit, Bangalore, India

Welcome to the real world Jonathan. I have been an atheist for 50 years, living a happy and worthwhile life. I face the end of that life without a qualm. I have been unbelievably fortunate to be a sentient being in a universe of such grandeur and enormous complexity. All religions are puny, tawdry things by comparison.

Alan Rogers, Lampeter,

Does anyone reading this NOT believe in Julius Caesar? Both Tacitus and Josephus the Roman and Jewish historians wrote about the man Jesus, who taught, did amazing miracles, was crucified (although 100% innocent), and came back to life as he had predicted he would. So the question is were these two historians telling 'Porkies'? If 'Yes' then most of the Bible is a collection of 'Porkies' and the 2.5 billion Christians in the world today including me have been sold a 'pup'.

I became a Christian 27 years ago mostly to prove to myself (rather ashamedly) that it was all 'Hocus Pokus', but I found it to be very,very real. I suppose I'm like Jonathan Edwards but the other way round!

Chris Westbrook

Chris Westbrook, Horsham, West Sussex

Adam London : Why not ask about The Flying Spaghetti Monster ? What makes one imaginary entity true and another one false ? in case your answer is "Antiquity" - substitute Zeus, Apollo etc for the FSM, it makes no odds. Why are so many people atheistic towards all gods but their own ? So very many highly cultivated blind spots to logic.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

This article gave me enormous encouragement. I find myself in the same position as Jonathan Edwards after 38 years as an evangelical Christian. I, too, started to question my faith after my son left home and became brainwashed by a so-called evangelical church in the Midlands. JE says that when he started to question his belief it all fell apart. This was my experience too. Like JE, I now feel liberated, happier and more at home with myself than ever before. The weight of guilt and expectation is lifted from my shoulders. My husband says I am much easier to live with. Like him, again, many of my family and friends are Christians which makes things harder. They are praying that I will see the light once again. I really don't want to return to the narrow-mindedness and judgement I found in the Anglican church. I would urge Christian readers not to pass judgement on or pity JE or me. Thank you, Jonathan, for helping me to see I am not alone.

Angela, Amersham,

Matt : Just because something is not yet known does not make it in the slightest it rational to say that "It must have been magic then". We look back at the ridiculously simplistic view of the world that people had in the past, all their explanations for perfectly normal phenomena were rooted in mysticism and magic and they were all wrong. Before Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity anyone would have been thought bonkers to say that matter and energy are different aspects of the same thing - note there is no magic going on here, just a scientific breakthrough. Has any magical explanation for anything ever stood up to rigorous inquiry ?

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Dominic, while I don't consider myself what others would call a devout christian, I have to ask you: what is rational about life?

Kenny Macdonald, Glasgow,

Dale, Have you ever considered the cyrus prophecy was written by cyrus after the event. BTW I think you actually mean the Cyrus CYLINDER. it is not a prophecy, but essentially the forst recorded declaration of human right - much betterthan any of the vile Old Testament laws.
Jeremiah predicted that israel would be in exile for 70 year. Cyrus liberated it after only 49 - just one of many failed prophecies.
May I suggest that those who go on about cells needing to be designed actually read some real evolutionary articles and not creationist propaganda. Who created god then? Dont say he always existed, that is a cop out, especially when you haven't even demonstrated he exists in the first place

Dr Billy Sands, Clydebank,

My congratulations to Mr. Edwards. Abandoning one's religion is painful. I refer to my own experience.
Too many religious people believe by tradition without questioning the brain-wash they have been subject to all since their childhood.

Eric J. Rauman, Stockholm, Sweden

It takes some time to overcome the effects of religious brainwashing. Some never achieve it. But it is possible - as admirably demonstrated by Mr. Edwards. Having a good intellect and thinking for yourself helps. Bravo!

Buford Twain, Indiana, USA

I was sad to read the interview with Jonathan Edwards - sad for him and sad for his wife and children. It hardly seems credible to me that someone who professed to be a Christian could, on such flimsy grounds (Paul may have had an epileptic fit and not an encounter with the risen Lord Jesus Christ - a view that was popular 50 years ago and has since been discredit!), have abandoned the faith he once professed. And yet, the Bible is very upfront in warning us about temporary believers (cf. Jesus' parable of the soils). Another element to my sadness is the way sections of the Christian church make much of "celebrity conversions". In the past we have had Andre Agassi, Britney Spears et el. When will the Church learn NOT to hitch its wagon to celebrities. "We preach Christ and him crucified". I hope and pray that the living God will deliver JE from his confusion and darkness and open his eyes to see that Jesus truly is the Christ, the Son of the living God, the only Saviour of lost sinners

Ian Hamilton, Cambridge, England

I think we put too much stock in the capability of science.

Scientists are at odds even answering questions about the cause of global warming - when the evidence is here now!

You need faith in science to be an athiest. I doubt science will be digging God's grave soon!

The irony of all this is that society at large conforms to how the bible predicts it will be. YOU are our proof - or at least helping our argument.

The bible predicts that in the latter days people will have cold hearts, be haters of God, lovers of themselves, blasphemers - I could go on.

David, Wirral, England

"“If there is no God, does that mean that life has no purpose?" -- funny question! As an atheist I think life has *more* purpose. And doing good because it *is* good or because you have compassion for others means more to me than doing good because you think an invisible spirit is looking over your shoulder. Part of the deconversion process is realizing the fundamental assumptions of a belief system are as empty as the fantasy of eternal life. Sometimes the question is hollow, and sometimes the answer is. It takes time. I hope he continues to express his thoughts openly as the process moves on.

Amy, Alexandria, Virginia/USA

To Dominic Shields,

I would wonder how rational it is that nothing created everything, then?

Matt, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne,

Mr Smith, there's no such thing as a soul. It is fictitious. Religion is too. It is there as a crutch to soothe our fear of death. Get a life...NOW....not later.

Gerry Beckett, liverpool, uk

what did Jesus say " My GOG My GOD why have YOU forsaken ME".........are we not normal if we question? Mr Edwards story is not over and neither is ours.

JEFF, ENUMCLAW, USA/WAESINGTION

As a Christian, I would like to congratulate Jonathan on thinking through these questions. Too many Britons assume that, because their parents are, or even their nation is 'Christian' they must also be. Although I have asked the same questions and come to different conclusions, I respect Jonathan for his position.

As for the need for unquestioning acquiescence for faith to exist, that some other comments have suggested, many hundreds of Christians would say that this is not the case, as they have come to faith as a result of asking the very same questions that Jonathan has.

Andy, Dinas Powys, Wales

Good grief, reading some of these comments I really worry for the future of the planet and feel so incredibly lucky to have been born into and brought up in a family that had no time for religion. The God Delusion is far too mild a term for what I read here, the selective thinking is incredible - "Something must have created us but nothing was required to create god" - staggering that an adult could persuade themselves that this is rational.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

It's intresting to see people turning this into a religion vs science topic board. allow me to join in with some nice quotes to get you all even more excited.

Atheism is more than just the knowledge that gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature part of nature ~ Carl Sagan

All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of the few. ~ Stendhal

God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ~ Voltaire

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? ~ Epicurus


enjoy!

gk, West Drayton, UK

Do Christians fear death? That is the question that would expose the slightest doubt.

Ben, York,

Atheism in 3 steps:

1. Learn physics.
2. Learn chemistry.
3. Wonder if god is necessary for us to exist.

It's no coincidence that there's a direct correlation between scientific knowledge and lack of religious belief. Only 7% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences(USA) believe in god.

In short: the more you know, the more you can pick the truth from the baloney

Dan, Chicago, USA

I thought there was something going wrong in his life when he presented 'songs of praise' some months ago, and was more concerned with all the gargoyles on the buildings, than the faith that people had in Christ. One thing is sure, if he ever was a true Christian, he will never be content with things of this world. I am sure he will have many praying for him at this time. I feel so sad.

M Elward, Bridgend, Glam

Believers, Non-believers.
Lucky none of us were amoung the 20,000 people living in Beziers during the Albigensian Crusade of 1209.
Simon de Montfort - the Commander of the Crusade, faced with the problem of separating the 'good Christians' from the 'damned heretics' sought advice from Arnaud Amaury - Papal Legate to the Crusaders - he was instructed,
"kill them all, God will know his own"
Well I guess that kept God busy for a while.

Richard, Pinner,

A thoughtful and insightful article.

Duane Nason, London,

Einstein doesn't believe in god - he's dead!

goldenboy, That London, UK

I would love to hear more about Jonathan's understanding of what he used to experience. What he though it was then, and how he re-understands it now.

Personally, I have always felt compelled to examine and re-examine my christian beliefs and experience. Not always comfortable, but necessary in a liberal dominated world that does not really tolerate traditional christian beliefs and morality !

I'd summarize by saying that most challenges to christian beliefs/morals, are in fact usually just assertions of a different world view - once you scratch beneath the surface - and fail to engage with what Christians actually believe!.

For example the materialist atheists arguement starts by asserting that IF there were a God, he would be part of the universe.. (rather than the Creator of the universe).. Similarly liberals who call Christian morals mysogenist and homophobic are just asserting their belief that anyone who disagrees with them must be motivated by hate, fear or power.

Zwingli, Stetten, Germany

Surely science can not prove the christian god does not exist, any more than it can prove that Mars, the Roman god of war doesn't exist. And modern christians can not prove that Apollo doesn't exist. So, I supose we she be open to the existance of Greek, Roman, and Norse gods as well.

Declaring that Edwards has made a logical error in not believing in a fantasy diety, simply because one can't Prove it doesn't exist, is in itself a huge mistake. A grand logical error. I repeat, you can not prove that Loki or the Salish Raven god doesn't exist either.

Since a negative can not be proved, it is obviously up to the believer to supply objective proof.

You can't prove that exterrestial beings aren't secretly controlling life on earth, so I guess it must be true, eh?

Thomas McCay, Vancouver, Canada

To all these people who keep going on about how 'improbable the big bang is' as an argument against atheism, you need to go and lookup what atheism means.

A typical definition is : 'a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods'. Being an atheist DOESN'T require or imply a belief in the big bang , evolution or anything else.

Tim, London,

If he was only trusting in God to help him be successful in his career and because he was successful in his career and because he was unquestioningly following what he'd been taught as a kid, no wonder his faith crumbled.

There but for the grace of God go I! May God have mercy on him.

And by the way, I hate it when cultural and even genuine Christians feel the need to exalt celebrities who happen to be Christian. Jesus is enough for me!

Rob Chamberlain, Dewsbury,

What matter most of all is that Jonathan is comfortable with his decision. Perhaps he may one day find his faith again, perhaps not. I have no regrets that I no longer participate in my own faith, despite the 'Catholic guilt trip' you're almost expected to feel at family weddings and funerals. His honesty is refreshing.

Marie, Durham,

In the same way that JE naively accepted Christianity as a child JE has now naively rejected it. There may come a time when he will doubt his doubts and be skeptical of his skepticism. A mature intellectual position does not necessarily result in agnostism or atheism. Many have found that faith is the only logical position to hold.

Brian Midmore, Reading, UK

There is only one God. Supreme and Sovereign. Jonathan Edwards' unbelief or questionings can never change that. PERIOD.

Tumi Odede, London, United Kingdom

When Jonathan prayed was his faith true? Did he give him self to Jesus? Did he ask for God to for give him? If so then he is still a Christian. If not then his faith was in vain. Jesus did not cone to this world to judge it but to save it. I hope that Jonathan is saved. Only God knows for sure.

Gene Durbin, wakeman, usa / Ohio

A man should not be criticised for questioning anything. When we cease to question things, that is when we give the power to the few and become enslaved.
Always question everything, but respect others beliefs.

Phil, Toyko, Japan

Christians who say you shouldn't question faith are, in fact, not very convincing Christians. If they were truly confident of their faith, they wouldn't be afraid to question it, because they would be certain that their faith would win.

starling, Lancaster,

What strikes me most is that Edwards knows nobody he can turn to for counselling on atheism, agnosticism, freethinking, rationalism, i.e on godless life-stances. After all, metaphysical freedom is the mother of all freedoms and should be taught in schools, should it not?

Vera Pegna, Cerveteri (Rome), Italy

Edwards was a superb sportsman: to doubt himself meant he would lose. He transferred that certain belief in himself to certainty in belief in God. Of course, he is mistaken: true Christians live with uncertainty. (The early Christians, persecuted and mocked, certainly must have doubted the rightness of their path.)

So out comes Mr Edwards into the real, secular world and finds real-world Christians exhibiting doubt and uncertainty. Atheists OTOH are firm and clear: there is nothing. JE understands/ likes their certainty. He jumps over to the other side.

What a relief!!!! No more doubts. Phew. He's happy. He's back, really, to where he always was.

Mary Shelley, London, UK

After 50 years of believing, I too have come to the same conclusion as Mr. Edwards. My "epiphany", however, came about when I started questioning the motives and actions of "Born again Christians." Using God as an excuse to behave immorally is not a viable recruiting method.

Dove, m, united states

"Mike Homfray, Liverpool,
Why do people equate intellectual honesty with athiesm? The truth is that science can neither prove or disprove the existence of God. The bible teaches that faith alone is the only way to find God. Good job I say.
I admire Jonathan Edward's honesty, but to challenge his former beliefs on the grounds on improbabilities misses the point entirely."
You are making a very basic mistake here, because Science cannot prove god does not exist, god exists, science shows that the the balance of evidence for the existence of god is as near to zero as you can get. It is not a 50/50 split between evidence for and against.
Therefore, it is quite reasonable to reach the conclusion that there is no god. Throughout history god has claimed many things as it's domain, yet with the advance of reason and the scientific method, these have been to shown to be in the realm of perfectly natural phenomena, not in the realm of the unnatural, ie Heliocentrilasim,Weather,Disease,etc

Stublore, Dublin, Eire

Proof of God is all around us every day. Look at a rose, a baby, a rainbow and a sunset, the way the human body is designed. There is so much to prove God's existence if only you look.
I'm happy for you that you have shaken off the shackles of religion, but no need to deny your maker's existence.

Alice, Moscow,

He still hopes, but he doesn't BLINDLY believe anymore! He's finally questioning god's existence, as any intelligent human being should, and is starting to realize that it is far more likely that god doesn't exist (especially Christian god, or god of any organized religion for that matter). See, he said that "When you think about it rationally, it does seem incredibly improbable that there is a God. I completely agree with him, but that means he's an agnostic, not an atheist, as he leaves room (no matter how small) for hope. I too have been searching for god all my life, and I read theist’s and atheist’s explanations to all kinds of things (morality, love, faith,...), but I ALWAYS found non-theist's answers to be much more reasonable, while theist's seemed to me just as WISHFUL THINKING. Religion never answered any questions; it was always just an obstacle!

predrag krtolica, West Valley City, UT

I hate to break this to the religious, but we atheists are not unhapppy, empty or without hope. Nor are we people without a strong sense of morality.
I have greatef hope for the future as more people stop compartmentalizing their knowledge of scietific fact and let go of religion. It's time for us to realize that we are not the center of the universe and take some responsibility for ourselves, take care of ourselves and others.
A single human life-span is a wonderfull opportunity. And to have minds capable of understanding the fundamental laws of physics and the evolution of biological life on our "pale blue dot floating in a beam of sunlight", to be have joy, to create, to dream, to love... these are what makes man, in all his frailty, the lucky winners in the greatest lottery of all time.

We hit the jackpot, my fellow humans, so don't squander it on fearfull myths.
Peace.

Rand Ping, Nola,

Good for you, Jonathan. All believers are either deceiving themselves or deceiving others.

alan, cologne,

Wow, isn't it amazing how many people have their perspectives on these things. Well, I'd like to say (in response to Eck, Salisbury) that I'm in any way saying that atheists are not humanists. I have nothing against them or Mr Edwards. In fact, many atheists acheive a great deal for humanity. But I reckon we should consider why we do what we do. To what end? I believe there's more to life than good works. Good works, I believe help to fill an unmistakable void deep inside of us. But only temporarily. As with most other things. But there is a God who fills this void. Am I bible bashing anybody? Don't think so. Am I brainwashing anybody? Nope. Fact, just reason together for a second. The billion plus galaxies. The tiny details of each snowflake. The baby in a womb with tiny fingernails. Edward Munch, I think painted the picture, "the silent scream", expressing how he was in severe depression while staring at the most brilliant sunset. Even the simplest creation point to a Creator.

Ryan, Adelaide, Australia

I HAVE read the book, Dale; and my heart tells me that I want nothing to do with the selfish, bad-tempered, genocidal God that it portrays - to take one example, out of many, how could a 'God of Love' order his followers to destroy a city and kill every living being inside it, men, women, children and animals? And now you'd have us believe that he is responsible for creation too: which means that as well as thinking up all the various life-forms he has also thought up all the different and hideous ways in which they destroy one another. "What shall We do today? Oh, I know; we'll invent a wasp that lays its eggs inside a living, paralysed spider, so that its larvae can eat it from inside, working around the vital organs so that they don't kill it too soon and spoil their supply of fresh meat." Nice one, God. If there IS a God of Love, he'd better have a bloody good excuse for some parts of his creation. Perhaps if he's so gross we should worship him just to get on his good side...

Bob, Birmingham,

I think Edwards lost his faith because the only tangable proof of it was his own success.
It was the success he was in love with, not God.
Many peoples faith is built from a sort of success: When their self esteem are at rock bottom and they feel despondent and lost and cry out to God, He rises them from the pit of despair and sets them back on the road of life, hopeful and secure in the knowledge that God is available.
They build their faith on God's ability to uphold them in times of spiritual and psychological need.
Edwards faith was built on God's provision of competative success.
Rockey ground.
Where else in his life had God figured ?
When the competition was removed he no longer needed God as there was nothing he needed God for.
In a time of deep distress, where will he now turn?

Charis, Barking, Essex

Dominic Shields of Cardiff: Christianity requires both reason and faith and is based on evidence and reported miracles: spaghetti monsters are not. That said, it is a struggle to keep the faith because the forces of rationalism (without faith) are very strong in the world today. In other words, it's easier to swim with the tide than against it.

Ted, Rome, Italy

"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8"

Wrote some bloke 2000 years ago. Why is that any more true than Harry Potter?

starling, Lancaster,

I really don't know what all the fuss is about. Mr. Edwards has had a change of mind. Religion has never figured in my life and I am no better nor worse than most other people. No one knows anything with certainty about the origins of life and the universe but what we do know with certainty is religion is the basis for wars and strife. I conclude that it is better to avoid people who are happy to wage war in the name of God.

Tommy Cruise, Los Angeles, CA

Please let us not quote old Dawkinism's like the Spaghetti Monster. There may or may not be a designer, it is impossible to say. Certainly the Universe is very complicated but there is no evidence for the God of Christianity or any other religion- that much is a certainty.

I came to the same realisation as Jonathan Edwards about a year ago and would class myself as an agnostic or possibly a deist. Certainly there is no reason to believe a loving, forgiving god is busy at work 24/7 in this world.

Adam, London,

I think Bruce, G from Glasgow said it well, it is a journey and everybody has their doubts now and then even the great Saints in the Bible had their times of questioning even Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, so who are you that you are not going to go through the same, but you don't stay there you journey on and faith springs anew. What's with this talk about him being so intellectual? Are athletes known to be intellectual? By his own admission he said he wasn't really thinking about it just concentrating on working out like most jocks. Then he got some gigs with some "intellectual" media types and starting questioning his faith. Happens all the time to college kids. I just think he was not grounded or mature in the faith and was influenced by the usual cast of characters.
Comparing him to Eric Liddell is a joke, Eric had faith and proved it to the end.

Tony, Auburn / Seattle, USA / WA

It is good to recognize that we don't know all the answers.

Paul, annapolis, Maryland/US

It has happened to Jonathan; it has happened to a lot of us. The difference is that for him it is a very public admission. But why sad? Probably not so much for him but for those people who are feeling left behind, his once fellow Evangelicals. At first religion might make you feel deliriously happy - it seems to work like that in some kinds of 'enthusiasm', as Mgr Ronald Knox called ecstatic forms of faith. But it rarely stays by you in that heady way. and then you begin to recognise those moments of uncertainty are here to stay and will probably get longer. Once you begin to think about them and be honest with yourself you are probably on the way out. But that doesn't seem to have made him sad - and it didn't me. I just realise I was a different person then...and not necessarily a better one when I had religious certainty.

Yom, Cambridge, England

"I can't imagine the psychological turmoil of overcoming social "
pressure, identity crises, and ancestor/culture idiolising .. "
How can anyone say this? No one is pressured to believe in God. You are more pressured not to believe in Him. There is so much corruption and sickness in this world that if you are a believer in God you are ridiculed for it.
Somewhere down the line Edwards will realize that Gold will never replace God, and that only thru faith in Him will you ever be able to truly be alive.
There are so many out there that believe that God is a myth, that the big bang made these worlds. My question is, what made the two things that banged together to form this world? If you believe humans came from one cell organisms what made them? I believe God made Adam and Eve, and that I came from them, not some ape or some fish or whatever else they will come up with in the future that we came from.

Audrey, SC,

I agree with Jonathan Edwards - but I am a practising Xian. You often feel hollow, doubt assails you, but all too often, as with some of his comments, Xianity is forced into the "science vs. faith" argument, leaving many Xians confused.

Remember, man has since time began looked at the stars and been baffled, looking for reasons, and finding none. We still do - we have more questions to ask, but the answers seem just as elusive.

To quote St Augustine - God wants us to be Xians, not mathematicians, I think Xians in general need to stop worrying about conflicts with science and concentrate on the core of faith that is true. Jonathan is making points about creation that don't in general occur to us Catholics or to the Orthodox. It is only Protestants in the West who have followed the US lead in trying to make a religion into a science, and who are now facing the consequences of that wrong move - only to fall easy prey to the likes of Richard Dawkins.

Richard, London,

All I have got to say, is poor man

what are we without hope

Bob, Skåne,

Wonderful article. Congratulations Jonathan. I hope you may be able to channel your energy in the future into helping others choose a non-delusional way to advance their lives. I am a humanist: http://www.humanism.org.uk. Perhaps Jonathan can advance the humanist effort to provide a satisfactory alternative to religious communities.

Donald, London, UK

Matthew Syed writes:
"...it was all a grand mistake...his epiphany was nothing more than self-delusion...his inner sense of God’s presence was fictitious...the decisions he had taken in life were based on a false premise...the Bible is not literal truth but literal falsehood...that life is not something imbued with meaning from on high but, possibly, a purposeless accident in an unfeeling universe."
Wonderful turn of phrase.
But it's not reporting. It's rhetoric verging on propaganda. And I said to myself - "sounds like an Oxford philosophy graduate to me". And lo and behold, indeed you are. Oxford's PPE course: Formal Logic, Hume and Mill formats First Year 18 year olds in a unquestioned, ideological way. All in the name of serious empirical analysis, of course! That must be why students ask questions about "being brains in vats"...But what if you were to think outside the vat yourself, Matthew?
"There are more things in heaven and earth...Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
No?

William, Toulouse, France

It is too easy to dismiss the path that Mr. Edwards has taken in reflecting on his beliefs. He has taken the time to look into it with intellectual honesty and found the faith that he has believed in all these years sorely wanting. Unless you have walked away from your religious beliefs to become an atheist, you would not be able to appreciate - "In some ways I feel more human than I ever have. There is more reality in my existence than when I was full-on as a believer." When you start seeing things unhindered by religious beliefs and fears (yes, most religions are experts in building up and dispensing fear - always the threats of hell, damnation, etc), life takes on a whole new meaning and appreciation. Being an atheist means you have to take responsibility for your life - no demons and devils to blame, no gods to feel subservient to. You live your life based on the values that you feel guided by, for better or for worse. That is freedom.

SH Leong, Ipoh, Malaysia

I applaud Jonathan for his honesty and humility. I wish I could say the same for some of the other contributors. The attitude that he could not have actually found "true faith" before is insulting to him and others like him (including myself) who start to find that our faith is riddled with contradictions and dilemmas. It seems to me that keeping faith often means shutting your ears and eyes to the world around you and ignoring the questions that life throws at you, as well as (in Christian terms) expressing a willingness to comply with a church that is (at best) divided and hostile to any who don't fit their mould - completely at odds with Jesus' message of love and acceptance, especially of the outsiders.

HellsBells, Wokingham, UK

I find it incredible that someone so publicly devout, who undertook a role spreading a faith, took until the age of 40 to seriously question his beliefs. There is no more or less evidence of a God now than there was in the last 20 years of his adult life. All our parents are great influences on our lives. To have been unable to question outside forces and how they shape your thinking, when your beleifs are apparently so strong , astonishes me. It reflects a fundamental ignorance, a refusal to intellectually debate the world around us, that is so common to religious adherents the world over. I am a big Jesus fan by the way.

James Conway, Dublin, Ireland

That Mr. Edwards demonstrated such a good example of asking himself the right questions and did not back away from what his being said to him, is a lesson for all.

Behind most great religions of the past, the tenets, when examined closely, tend to point to the same sort of "do unto others". They have become cluttered over the years with individual claptrap that sometimes, and very often, works so well to set humanity apart from each other.

It is time to stop gazing into he sky for an omniscient being to complain to or ask for "favours". When we begin to look inwardly and realistically at life and its common needs, we may just pull out of the apathy perpetuated by dogma, and begin to take personal responsibility back again. Bravo, Mr. Edwards! You have survived, and you realize that what is
needed in spiritual strength, is already inside you anyways.

Chris Dugdale, Lachine Montreal, Quebec Canada

All credit is due to Jonathan for being as public about his loss of faith as he was about his faith. Too many billions of people's faith is based on their unquestioning belief of what they have been told as a child and hopefully this will inspire others to take the first step and ask themselves questions.

The first step for a Christian would, ironically, be to read the bible. Does God really correct people by sending sickness? (Job 33) Will the Queen of Sheba really stand up and accuse you on Judgment Day? (Jesus speaking in Luke 11, 31) Should we all obey the State authorities because they have all been put there by God? (Romans 13, 1-2)

The final word should of course go to the man himself, Jesus Christ, speaking in Luke 12, 51: "Do you suppose that I came to bring peace to the world? No, not peace, but division".

Chris Jackson, London,

This story brings to mind Francis Bacon's saying, "A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."

It seems that this man had clung to a very simple faith during his youth and his competitive years, never having considered the philosophical questions at issue, or encountered liberal bible criticism. My guess is he never had much grounding in Christian apologetics. So he was apparently unprepared for the challenges he encountered so soon after the identity crisis that attended his retirement.

As one who came to Christ from agnosticism as an adult, I can attest that the Christian faith has more solid answers, compared to the alternatives, to the kinds of questions that have led Edwards away. Let believers pray that God will lead him to keep seeking the best answers to these questions.

Jim A., Rancho Santa Margarita, California

The oft asked question "who created God" lacks intellectual rigour. The big bang came from something - who created that something? Then who created the something who created the something who created the big bang and so on. It either goes on into infinity or somewhere there is a being who was not created but always existed. We are time/space bound beings and its hard for us to conceive of a being that has always existed. Time and space have to have been created somehow so its 'creator' must be outside time and space. This where the Dawkinses of this world fall - they say that unless it can be subject to tests then it can't exist - but no-one knows the state of the Earth at its outset. (Miller/Urey debunked, many untestable theories but all untestable guesswork). Only the physical exists? Who can measure love or hate? They produce effects in our physical bodies because we are more than flesh an blood. Edwards had religion but may never have known the God of the Bible.

Rowley, reading, uk

A thoughtful and honest interview. I can relate to a lot of what he has to say.

Mike Homfray, Liverpool,

Why do people equate intellectual honesty with athiesm? The truth is that science can neither prove or disprove the existence of God. The bible teaches that faith alone is the only way to find God. Good job I say.

I admire Jonathan Edward's honesty, but to challenge his former beliefs on the grounds on improbabilities misses the point entirely.

David, Wirral, England

From the article
"I was so preoccupied with training and competing that I did not have the time or emotional inclination to question my beliefs"

It sounds like he was also so preoccupied that his personal prayer life with God and reading the Bible suffered as a result? How would a relationship remain if you are no longer on speaking terms?
This is a lesson in learning to take time out for time with God. So, if you think you are standing, firm, be careful that you don’t fall!

S Butcher, London,

If he showed courage as an athlete - and he did - how much more courage is he showing now in turning round and saying that for his whole life he has been wrong? I shed a tear reading the article, but what a man to stand up publicly and confess he has misled himself and others, and will now stand by his true convictions, and surely be a far happier man as a result.

Once again I look up to him as a hero.

Ben, London,

I won't judge you Edwards. Just listen to your inner voice and follow your bliss...

John, Stevenage, UK

I am glad to get an update on this and to hear he is over the crisis. my only hope is that he is listened to by the christian community and is as evangelising for atheism as he was for christianity.

now he has found the truth hopefully he can undo some of the harm caused to date by leading others into delusion.

Tim E, manchester, UK

There are many deep questions that trouble a lonely, godless existence, but one keeps returning to trouble me: 'What happened to the sardines?'

Dan, Oxford, England

Giving up your faith can certainly leave an ideological hole in your life. How about replacing it with fascism?

H. Himmler, Berlin, Das Dritten Reich

The number of comments in support of Jonathan Edwards 'seeing the light' (ironic use of the phrase I suppose) maybe says something about the views of people who feel a need to express them online. I wonder if it is representitive of the national consensus or not. I expect some broadsheet letters pages would not show the same consensus. By the way, I say good for you Jonathan.

Iain, London,

Unbelief is as illogically founded as belief. I empathise more with agnostics than with atheists. The only 'senses' Mr Edwards has come to is the simplemindedness of sport, not, certainly, of faith. I pray he comes around again, but this time, having questioned his faith, he will find it is stronger because it will be grounded on a firmer foundation.

Marco Rosenbaum, London, UK

Ted of Rome : Its always struck me how easy people find it to believe any made-up nonsense and how difficult they find it to apply critical thinking. I wonder if the fact that I don't believe in uncritical acceptance of anything without evidence makes me see things the opposite of the way you do.
Do you uncritically accept the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ?

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

Good for Jonathan! I have no problem with deists who ask themselves honestly if they believe in their god(s) and conclude that they do, but a great many do not. Jonathan has asked hinself the questions we all do and conlcuded that existance is chance and random which, to this atheist's mind, makes it all the more astonishing.

Ken, Essex,

This is a truely heart warming story. Jonathan Edwards has had the courage to question his religious beliefs, using reason, and found that they do not stand up.
Furthurmore he is prepared to talk in public about it.
Life is so full of wonder that one does not need religion to lead a happy and fulfilled life.

Graham, Munich,

The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of God shall stand for ever. Isaiah 40:8

nick, UK,

I went through a similar experience when it became clear to me that while Santa Claus and the Tooth fairy were comforting and nice ideas, when exposed to close rational scrutiny it became obvious that they were, almost certainly fabricated, and at the very very least an elaboration on half truths. Maybe i'm not necessarily a happier person for knowing that, but I am glad that I matured and grew out of the idea. Like so many learning experiences it made me a better, more inquisitive person today. i wish more people would properly question the man-made tale of god and grow up too. It will be hard for some to grow out of their comfort zone, but the world will ultimately be a better place for it.

Christopher, Zurich,

I read this article today with very mixed feelings, Jonathan. I'm a committed Christian, and while I follow a way of devotion that is as far removed from the Evangelical church as you can get (Catholicism), I nevertheless applaud the decision you have taken. It must be very hard to give up the "habit of a lifetime" and it is fascinating to read the circumstances in which you made the change. My good wishes go with you

Chris Irwin, Dorchester, UK

"Edwards says. “If there is no God, does that mean that life has no purpose? .."

Through his commitment to his athletic career I am sure that Edwards has been an inspiration and role model to a young person be them of any or no faith. His life has had a purpose if it means that just one individual has reflected on the hard work and perseverance Jonathan has shown and taken this forward to benefit their own life in a positive manner.

lucy shrimpton, london, UK

Adam, your simplistic renditioning of the 'big bang' is the classic tool of the anti-scientific. Trying to reduce the creation of the universe, the origins of life and subsequent evolutionary advances into the phrase "never have I seen a random bang and oh! there is a sports car in front of me" is one of the funniest things i've read all year. You also contradict yourself as I doubt you've ever seen God but you appear to believe in him.

Paul, London,

Congratulations Jonathan, your honesty is an example to many people.

"If there is no God, does that mean that life has no purpose? Does it mean that personal existence ends at death?"

If you mean some external, discoverable purpose then no, there is none - except that which you make for yourself. You must decide what gives your life meaning, for me it is my family, intellectual pursuits and music.

And yes, it looks like existence does end at death, that is why it is so important that we make the most of life while it lasts. Luckily you've freed yourself from superstitious dogma in time to have a chance at a full free life. Well done!

Paul A, Edinburgh,

Thank God for that. I'm glad he is suffering no ill effects of dumping this delusion. For many it is a hard time. I struggled greatly with it myself, and found there is no logical basis for such beliefs. The most telling thing for me was the so-called messianic prophecies. Read in their original context, they have nothing to do with jesus. If you read apologists on the subject, you realise their is nothing logical about it

Dr Billy Sands, Clydebank, Scotland

I think we should all applaud Jonathon Edwards for having the courage to question, question, question. The ability to question anything at all makes all reliance on blind faith nonsensical. It shows also that he cannot be a believer as faith requires complete and unquestioning acquiesence without anything approaching evidence. Faith implies you already have all the answers, which is true if the questions remain the same; but ask a different question and you have get a different answer. The moment you question is the moment you cannot possibly believe as you cannot question without doubt and tangible answers must be forthcoming. Luckily the law and science don't, or shouldn't anyway, work like that or we would really be in trouble.

Bernard, Birmingham,

what a shame for this man and those Christians who had thought so much of his model he had previously presented. he has been given the gift of God and he throws it away.

I pray he will read the messages of Our Lady of America and change his course before he sours too much.

Olivia, Rome City, USA/Indiana

Why all the self-satisfaction from the correspondents? None of us can prove or disprove beyond doubt which is why it is called a Faith. My experience is that faith is a journey not a destination. Who has not undertaken a long journey or undertaking and not had a crisis of confidence at some stage of it? In the context here, it is ironic, that (St) Paul departed for Demascus certain that he was doing God's work of destroying the fledgling Christian movement. Only for him to have that humbling experience on that journey. The rest is history as they say......

James Gardner, Bristol,

Exiting from the sporting world has inevitably been an unsettling experience for JE. What bothers me is that what he says buys into the commonly held and false idea that religious beliefs are fixed constructs in a person's head that, instead of having the potential to grow and develop, are brittle and vulnerable to being shattered by 'truth' as yet unexposed to. Whereas my experience is that faith is a journey where yes, questions and doubts must be confronted but fresh dimensions of spiritual truth are also constantly being discovered - if I persist in heeding the powerful sense that there really is something in it. A shallow faith needs to be disillusioned before a deeper, more mature faith can take root.

Bruce Gulland, Glasgow, UK

JE's philosophical questions can be addressed to a large extent through a humanist perspective - the belief that we can live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs. Humanists make sense of the world using reason, experience and shared human values, and seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves and taking responsibility for our actions.
Many people would agree with this, but aren't aware of the humanist label. Unfortunately, unless they are prepared to label themselves, they will find that the views of members of religious groups will continue to dominate public life, eg. education, welfare, bishops in the House of Lords.

Julia, London, london, uk

1 Jonathan's was not a "high profile conversion" as some have suggested. He's said publicly before that he has had a relationship with God as far back as he can remember - "I remember praying to accept Jesus into my heart when I was six".
2 The guy has had a supremely successful athletics career that has kept him in the public eye for the best part of 20 years. He's going through a major life change, so it's not that surprising that he's asking hard questions of himself and his faith. As a Christian, I hope he won't be too hasty in his conclusions.
3 He is being honest intellectually - but please let's not presume all Christians must then automatically be intellectually dishonest. Many of us came to faith not through some crisis, or emotional response, but by carefully weighing the evidence before us for the Christian faith. In countless nations across the world, believers are facing imprisonment and death on the strength of their faith in Jesus Christ. That's reality, not lala land.

Russ, West Sussex,

Well done Mr Edwards. You took that first vital step on the runway by questioning what you had been told. I'm sure you had to perform a hop, skip and a jump of logic and mental reasoning but you have landed firmly in the sand pit of rationality.

Russell King, Reading, Berks

The Big Bang theory. First there was nothing. Then it exploded.

Evolution relies on a "simple cell" that somehow divides and results in more complex life. The fiction in this? There is no such thing as a simple cell. There are small cells, but they are incredibly complex.

What then is required? A creator. A designer or architect if you prefer. What then is required is God.

The Bible is the only book ever written that authenticates itself by predicting future events - c'mon Brits, go see the Scroll of Cyrus at The British Museum. Read the Old Testament prediction and account of Cyrus. It was impactful enough to Cyrus (for his name to have been written in a prophecy decades earlier, even decades before he was born!) that it led to his conversion.

Read the book! Study what it means! And evaluate your heart.

Dale, Northampton,

That Mr. Edwards has examined his previous commitments to faith in such an enlightening and scrutinizing way, seeking his own personal truth, is a journey to be undertaken by every thinking person in his or her own path through life. Some of yesterday's truths are timeless, whereas strict adherence to man-made ideals written in sacred books are not always worthy of any consideration at all, only reflecting mores and traditions of another time.
By this method, by conscientious thought, perhaps we all eventually arrive at the same conclusions, that doing unto others, etc. and other very basic goodnesses have sometimes been in truth the basis of most of the world religions at some point. Dwelling on differences provokes eternal warfare. And perhaps discarding certain beliefs and rites will lead us to a path where we can begin to take responsibility for our own actions in all things, and not sigh into the night hoping that a potentially non-existent being can be exhorted to sort it out.

Chris Dugdale, Lachine Montreal, Quebec Canada

I think it's great that Jonathan has worked out that religion is a load of tosh. It is not possible to prove the existence or non-existence of God...but it is easy to prove that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are nothing more than myths, lies and propaganda.
It is a fact that evolution happened and is happening still. Not a theory. A fact. There are theories as to how it happened but it is not disputed that it does happen. Once you accept this, it is clear that man is not a special, sacred species but just another species descended from a fish. Once you accept that, then it is clear that no human-centric religion (dominion over the animal kingdom...man in God's image. etc.) can be true. Jews aren't the chosen people, Jesus probably never lived, Mohammad was no more a prophet than is George W Bush.
If only more people would use their brains and question their beliefs the world would be a better place.

Giordano Bennetti, Swindon, UK

A splendid article. Congratulations Jonathan. I hope you may find ways to use your energy in the future to help people advance their lives in non-delusional ways. Perhaps via humanism?
Best wishes.

Donald, London, UK

Congratulations Mr Edwards and welcome to the real world.

It sucks but you'll love it!

Ian, London,

"Sport is simple, with simple goals and a simple lifestyle." And faith is not...at least in a fallen, warring world like ours. I hope he realises this before it's too late.

Kamal, Dauphine, St. Vincent and the Grenadines

Thank you for your honesty Jonathan. I stepped away from Christianity after thirty years, and I understand the "completely different world" comment. I too have never been happier. I wish you well.

Roz Martin, Bournemouth, UK

How dare you accuse people who don't share your beliefs of being in "the wilderness" - maybe, just maybe we're the ones on the path to truth because we ask questions and don't blindly follow what is preached to us.

Paul, Wolverhampton,

For his own sake, Jonathan might like to at least consider that what he is experiencing here is nothing more, or less, than a midlife crisis. It is a pity, for him, that this has been made so public, but there was probably no other way for it to be, having worn his heart on his sleeve for so long. There is another point: he seems to have rejected a very British idea of what faith entails. Rejecting this does not in itself necessarily mean rejecting faith in every possible form. On a lighter note, I'd say the beginning of the end was the can of sardines. I've always hated them, myself.

Andrew Fox, Sao Paulo, Brazil

I think he's finally woken up and smelled the coffee. A brave thing to do in this day an age when pious hypocrites of one flavor or another take such prominent roles in public life.

JamesC, Singapore,

More joy on Earth over one Religious Jealot that repenteth than in all the sermons in print

John Ledbury, Kings Lynn, England

Just the very fact that Edwards did not compete on sundays till 1993 shows very little understanding of the Christian Faith. Firstly, the laws of God is written in your heart. There is no must dos beause as Christians, we have the Spirit of God. It is not just a belief like other religions but submitting your heart, mind, soul to the Lord. When you do that, the Holy Spirit comes in and teaches you all things of God. We are saved by Grace not by works and law keeping. Our good works comes from the fact that we are saved by grace through faith. As Jesus warned, you cannot serve 2 masters. Edward has served 'sports' and have surrounded himself with unbelievers. What have darkness have in common with light, good with evil? To love God you must 'hate' the world, because the world oppose God. The world is ruled by satan and everyone who does not follow God is a follower of satan including atheist. Satan is a father of lies and sadly Edward has succumbed to that lie.

virginia, brisbane, australia

I only hope Jonathan asks God to forgive him for upsetting so many of his followers and fans.At least there is always time for him to think again.

Anton Wills-Eve, West Kirby,Wirral, England

A miracle!

George Lennan, La Rochelle, France

I sorry to disappoint those of you who think that Jonathan Edwards is suffering a blip in his faith and will come back when he regains his senses. Too late, as he has already gained his senses by escaping from the religious mental prison and is now free to live the much simpler and honest life which atheists experience. Welcome .

Dick, Glasgow,

Not sure what to say, am one of those 'devoted' christians who has been at crossroads too many times but wld never abandon my faith esp. when there can't be an alternative.

Its one thing not to 'trust' God but to question his existence is another.

Was a kid when he competed and was always a big fan,if there was a decent reason for his back sliding i wld understand but either he aint saying or there aint.

Dasty, Brussels, Belgium

Good on you, Jonathan. You have taken a giant long jump into reality: definitely worth another gold medal! How refreshing to hear of someone breaking free from the shackles of their indoctrinations through reason and intellect.

Giles, Cheltenham,

'If there is no God, does that mean that life has no purpose? Does it mean that personal existence ends at death?' - sounds like adolescent angst. He's 41 years old you say?

Simon, Oslo,

I hope that Mr. Edwards finds his way back. He has trully lost his way from a person with higher purpose to someone pondering "the purpose of life". Reminds me of the boy from St. Agustine who is trying to put the ocean into a small hole he dug in the sand. Well, he has the greatest challenge of his life in front of him. A lot harder than breaking any world record. Which is to find his way back to the straight and narrow and find God. FYI Einstein believes in God but then again you might think you are smarter than him.

Peace!

macuy, Daly City, CA

I believe that Richard Dawkins has written:
"Was Carl Sagan a religious man? He was so much more. He left behind the petty, parochial, medieval world of the conventionally religious; left the theologians, priests and mullahs wallowing in their small-minded spiritual poverty. He left them behind, because he had so much more to be religious about. They have their Bronze Age myths, medieval superstitions and childish wishful thinking. He had the universe.”

D.P. Barber, Hamburg, Germany

Mr. Edwards' blood supply has been allowed to return to his brain after so long being used to supply energy to his athletic body. He finally realises that his earlier belief in ridiculous bible stories was a result of childhood indoctrination. I am not surprised that he finds relief in having shaken off the burden of "faith", i.e. belief without evidence.

May I recommend that he read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion and Christopher Hitchens' god is Not Great.

Stewart Ware, London,

It took a lot of courage for Jonathan Edwards to come out and say what he did,. I hope that more so called religious people will starting thinking a lot more of why they believe what they do? Except for the fact they have always been they always been told what to think throughout their childhood, keeping their minds in a permanent state of infantcy.

As an ex-christian and now a committed athiest I can perfectly understand the difficulties Jonathan might have felt in coming to his decission.

Jonathan Edwards is a man of the upmost integrity. I just wish more public figures would step up to the plate. Well done Jonathan!

Jonathan Bloomer, Magor, Monmouthshire

Of all his achievements this one - rational analysis of a delusion indoctriinated from before he could rationalise - is at least as great as his tremendous World Record.

Well done Jonathan!

Treadmore, Dorchester, UK

Edwards comment, "If there is no God..." points to someone who has moved from faith to an agnostic positon. He comments that he has been on a "path to unbelief".

This does not square with your writer's comments that "the decisions he had taken in life were based on a false premise... the Bible is not literal truth but literal falsehood... Edwards is now, to all intents and purposes, an atheist..."

Being agnostic is not the same as being an atheist. Edwards is asking some questions which he has not asked before - and who knows where the answers will lead him. But, please, let's not misrepresent him.

Andrew an atheist , Devon,

Poor, poor Jonathan. You have had the wool well and truly pulled over your eyes by the Devil. You fell into his trap. And all because you gace credence to liberal voices "During my documentary on St Paul, some experts raised the possibility that his spectacular conversion on the road to Damascus might have been caused by an epileptic fit. It made me realise that I had taken things for granted that were taught to me as a child without subjecting them to any kind of analysis. When you think about it rationally, it does seem incredibly improbable that there is a God.” But the truth is the truth, nothing has changed. Those who gloat had best take head - "The fool has said in his heart 'there is no God" (Psalm 14 verse 1)

Peter Millist, Walton on the Naze, Essex, UK

I like to place a comment to all of u here if u allow me to do so. In my 39 years of life in this planet, I spend many years far away from God even though I was raised in christian family. I can only say that when I lived away from God those years were the most unhappy years of life. God is not an idea, He is not fake. He exists, and exists in the hearts of the people who really love Him and believe in Him. Maybe Jonathan will have to take that journey into the dark to find out that God exists indeed. I just pray that he finds his way back to where he belongs.

polis, portsmouth, UK

How quick the atheists are to accuse believers of never thinking and never asking the questions, when in truth most people with a faith ask more of the key questions, more often, than any agnostic or atheist.

And how nice of the Times to take 37 years of one opinion as a phase, and four years of a different opinion as a revelation.

So fame and success were truly more integral to his identity than he ever realised. People have been falling from pedestals for years. It doesn't change the truth.

Tim, Shanghai, China

I was raised in a religious family and became active in the church from a young age. As the first born of five, many had expectations that I badly wanted to exceed in all matters of life. I had a much shorter athletic career than Jonathon, but a successful one at that. It wasn't until I quite athletics that I was able to focus on the "why" questions (around faith). This was 30 years ago.

Pondering back, my immediate reaction was quite similar to that of Jonathon. Athletics were my life, my faith, my livelihood. My seperation from athletics forced me to focus on the reality of living. Doubts came and went. I still have doubts, but they have mostly to do with my own insecurities and trend towards ignorance. It is a very difficult thing to be a religious person because the doubting world will always ask tough questions. CS Lewis was remarkably educated and rhetorically sound when it came to answering these questions.

Keep striving for the truth, Jonathan.

Harold, Athens, Greece

Well, Eck from Salisbury your posts might go missing (although I counted two) but mine never get in at all! Who is editing these comments anyway? Based on my count and editor with a preference for atheist males.

Anyway, Edwards could not tolerate doubt in his professional life or in his spiritual life. This was an error. Christianity is full of doubt: Judeans doubted whether he was God (and they met him!), Judas doubted what Christ proclaimed about Kingdom of God and betrayed him, Christ himself panicked at Gethsemane. Christians who to lead a good (godly) life in an atheist, secular society such as Britain must learn to tolerate doubt.

Anyway, atheism is full of certainty: that one cannot base belief on God upon reason. But the Church only teaches that belief in God is reasonable. The basis of belief, however, is faith.
And that is what Mr Edwards has lost.

Mary Shelley, London, UK

"Jesus wept." (John 11:35)
Lord Jesus, forgive them for they don't know what they are saying. Reveal yourself to them, open their blind eyes that they may see you and know you deeply and personally. You are the living Lord and the only one who can save. Please save their souls. Amen.

Jonathan, Jesus will never leave you nor forsake you. Repent and turn back to him. He loves you.

From a non-religious follower of Jesus, with no church or Christian family background, who, as an intelligent, healthy, normal adult, met the living Jesus in a way similar to that of Paul on that Damascas Road.

Jo, Warwickshire,

From time to time my faith, as most, wanes but I still choose to believe. Science will always give faith a good thrashing, but without faith I personally feel I would be living a lesser life.

I am glad that Mr. Edwards has found peace with his decision but he will be missed as a Christian. Still, to all I simply say if you cant accept Jesus Christ as your savior, then please simply accept Jesus Christ.

Whether or not you believe him to be the son of God sort of pales in comparison to the message that he preached. Love all things unconditionally. For me it is the message that is my religion. My faith might go back and forth but my belief in that message never dies.

Mike, Shreveport, LA

By the comments here, not only do atheists think that what they believe is true, but they also think that that anyone religious is a "fool," a "dupe," "ridiculous," "deluded," and "brainwashed."

The truth is, most atheists I have ever read or known are ironically just as close-minded as they profess religious people to be. I'm quite sure most here have never read, in depth, the likes of St. Thomas Aquinas, John Henry Newman, G.K. Chesterton, Hillaire Belloc, or C.S. Lewis. These men are much more sensible and thoughtful, not to mention charitable, than Dawkins and the rest.

By the way, isn't it interesting that Christians are the "dogmatic" ones? In fact, as an atheist, you believe that God certainly does not exist. To believe that, you must believe that everything that exists can be seen, heard, touched, smelled, or tasted by human beings. Therefore, by definition, you must have FAITH that human senses are the only ones in existence in the universe.
God bless you all

Scott, Lakeland, USA

I have been there and back. I wasn't a Christian because I was born and raised as one, but I am one because like Jonathan I received the revelation. After five years, I started questioning the existence of God, and I came to the same conclusion Jonathan did. It must have been a delusion, and I have to shake it off then. I believed that what achieved when one has faith boils down to psychology, and confidence gained when such faith exists in one. At the end, I decided that God wasn't real. Just when I did, I entered the church I used to frequent 6 months before. And what was preached was exactly the situation I was in, and before long I was moved to tears again, and I began to see my situation clearly. That was how I went back to Christ, like the prodigal son.

SC, London, UK

The phrase, " I feel a lot better since I gave up hope" springs to mind. I found the journey from faith to scepticism profoundly liberating to the point where I am now entirely perplexed how any thinking person can believe the self serving bunkum spouted by religious leaders and their gullible followers. I say evidence and reason will set you free.

Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK

If Mr Edwards were to read my comments perhaps he would get an insight into what it is to have no belief in God and live a good and caring life. I was educated in a Church of England School and attended extra services at Church, had religious instruction for four year but never found God. I treat all with respect and harm nothing. I do believe Jesus lived, as I believe in Ghandi and Nelson Mandela - all recognised for being someone special, but still men.
Why should any human being presume they are important enough to exist beyond death. We are the only creatures on this planet with this belief. Nothing beyond is nothing to fear.
We live on as memories in others - the important thing surely, is to make them good memories. I think Mr Edwards has achieved that.

Lindsay, Eastbourne,

I am saddened to hear of Jonathon Edwards' apostasy. As a long time participant, coach, and official in Athletics from the other side of the pond, I viewed him as the archetype of the Christian athlete. It appears that Satan has won this skirmish, but as a Calvinist I am confident that he will not win the war for his soul. I urge all believers to pray that the Holy Spirit will soon rekindle Jonathan's faith.

Wayne T. Armbrust, Columbia, Missouri, USA

It's most important to remeber that life only has the meaning that we give it. The biggest questions of existence are ours to answer.

Thomas Cowan, Washington, DC, USA

I was an atheist for over 30 years and arrived at a crossroads in life that didnt look very promsing, but for some strange reason on my kness i asked God for help.
I have had 5 years since that have left me without doubt of a spiritual power that i now choose to call God.
As William James quotes in the Variaties of religious experiences "those that doubt the existence of God have not experienced God".
Everyone is a free spirit to chose as they want, good luck to Jonathon on his journey, all i can speak of is my personal experience and without the guidance of God i dont believe i would be here to write this today.

paul houghton, johannesburg, south africa

Ryan from Adelaide, you say "Only a relationship with the living God through Christ can save and bring utter fulfilment and joy."

But how do we know this is true? There is no way to come to believe it without discarding the process of inquiry that says, "What if there's another way?" or "Is this really true fulfillment and joy?"

To imply that Edwards has never truly felt religious experience is an insult to his integrity, and is completely unwarranted.

You have assumed that the path of reason and honest questioning leads ultimately to the God spoken of in the Gospel. I suspect you will never doubt this is true, though, since you seem too prideful to follow that path yourself. If I were a believer, I would pray for all those such as you; since I am not, I can only sit here with sympathy in my heart.

Jacob, Green Bay, USA

So interesting to hear the cries of 'indoctrination' and 'finally thinking for himself'. I wonder, however, how many of the above contributors have 'thought for themselves' about Christianity, thoroughly investigated its historicity and not been 'indoctrinated' by an atheistic society. I have more respect for people like J.E. who seem to have investigated its claims than for those who just blindly cry 'I knew it, always thought it was rubbish!'

Nigel Richardson, Durban, South Africa

Jonathan. Welcome to the reality of life. The strength of your own personality and character has finally won the day. We sit on our little rock flying through space and when we die, we die. We are privileged to be here. As regards the value of your life, you have given to many of us a great joy and I hope that you continue to do so! Best wishes for a long and happy future. And no feeling guilty my boy!

Tim Taylor, Carrickfergus, County Antrim

"I pray for you"

For what? That he'll find religion again and become less happy? Religion is more important than happiness?

starling, Lancaster,

Jonathan will come to realise that life has so much more personal meaning once freed from the arbitrary whims of a celestial dictator.

jeremy shaw, London, UK

Now my sporting hero is perfect in every way :-)

Glad you finally found the time to ask "why?". Jonathan.

P, Helensburgh, Scotland

I am saddened by the news, Jonathan is a likeable man, and I hope that he finds a way back. Whether Jonathan chooses to believe or not, God still exists, He does not need us to prove His own existence before man. Rom 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
It is up to us to turn to Him, and Jesus made that way possible by dying for us and making himself known to us. Wake up people, He is alive and coming back soon! May sound strange, but nevertheless it is true. All will one day stand before Him. Without the Christ we will be undone.

Gary, , Burnley, E

Purpose is ours to choose, Meaning is the story you choose to join. There are many true stories one may join. "The history of humankind" is one story that includes all of us. Instead of seeking a ticket to Heaven, one can find meaning by taking an active part in history, seeking to make this Earth a better place.

For understanding ethics, I recommend GOOD AND EVIL by Richard Taylor.

John Hodges, Blacksburg, Virgina, USA

Well done Jonathan - does life have no purpose ? I must admit I sometimes despair at people who ask this question - consider the alternative and be grateful that you had the incredible good fortune to be the result of that egg and that sperm. There really is no need to invent magic reasons for anything, just be.

Dominic Shields, Cardiff,

It's much easier to doubt than to believe. If it weren't, the faith wouldn't be worth much. Anyone can be skeptical, but is that being honest?

Ted, rome, italy

...and all the good Christians quickly line up to bash a man for his beliefs and to judge where and what his former beliefs were based upon. Don't begin to act as if you understand how strong his beliefs were, what they were based upon, and whether or not they were just some outward showing. It seems to me that he did have it in his heart and he knew it to be true and acted upon it. I don't think it's my place to say whether or not there is a God but it sounds like what happened for him is that as he opened his mind up the the possibility that there might not be one that's exactly the conclusion that he came to. Whether I'm the "best Christian in the world" or not, I can't ever say that I know there's a God. I can have 100% faith that there is, but I can't claim to know it as fact. I wish this man the best whether he's a Christian or not and certainly don't wish him a fiery hellish existence. Hopefully we all come to conclusions that make us happy and content in life.

William Rogers, Houston, TX, USA

I'm not an athiest, but I have been through a crisis of faith much the same as described by Jonathan Edwards. I turned to Zen Buddhism during this time of uncertainty, which lasted for some years. Through zazen ( meditation) I slowly came to the realization of the God who is beyond all conceptual formulations and yet our own deepest truth...the living flame of love, to use a phrase coined by Thomas Merton. I'm able to say Mass again with joy. I haven't arrived back where I once was, but further up the spiral that symbolizes our journey into God.

Malcolm, Hayle, UK

Hey, I was a devout, born-again Christian for 35 years before I figured out it was all a myth myself! Way to do your homework Jonathan. And way to have some courage.

Gary Michaels, Lake Tahoe,

I am a Christian who, like Jonathan, has also asked questions about the truth in religious faith. I believe that every Christian may go through this process; and some will remain in the faith while others choose not to. If this did not happen, what value would there be in the choice to believe? Maybe he will come back to God, maybe he will not, but the point is that the choice is a personal one that each of us is entitled to make, and should not engender cheers, jeers or gloating from bystanders with no real stake in the choosing.

Adam, London,

This is one of the saddest articles I have read for a long time. I know that he will miss his faith somewhere down the line and hope that in time he has courage to come back to a God that has blessed him with so much in life and career. We can only pray for him.

Susan Jones, Gloucester, UK

Well done Jonathan! You are a true hero of mine now. I can't imagine the psychological turmoil of overcoming social pressure, identity crises, and ancestor/culture idiolising ..

If only people followed your example and looked closer into where these myths (as well as other faiths) and how they came about, this civilasition might stand a chance.

All the best

John J, Pool, UK

I found this article refreshing. For someone to cast off the shackles of evangelical and literal belief in the supernatural, especially when faced with the attendant difficulties of alienating friends and family, takes courage. I suppose time will tell if Edwards' newfound materialism will last, but he seems to have come to terms with many of the hurdles of developing a materialistic belief system already.

One thing this case proves is that, contrary to what the otherwise wise Richard Dawkins says, it is possible for an intelligent man to believe in god, as long as he comparmentalises his mind, and shuts out the mass of common sense and objective evidence which points to a universe whose only meaning derives from an amazing material structure created from chaos over billions of years by natural processes - the human brain.

Dylan Murphy, Lerwick,

Many teenagers shy away from the faith of their youth but they usually return in maturity.
Jonathan Edwards is merely having his teenage crisis a little late.
He may well return from the wilderness with faith strengthened.

CA Metcalfe, Essex,

Congratulations, Jonathan, on finding the courage and reason to make the transition from unquestioning faith to an enlightened and rational approach to life, the universe and everything.

VT Thinblot, London,

Adam Wellington: Looking back into the past - it is more absurd to end at a god because this begs further questions.

Jonathan's faith was clearly interwoven tightly with his athleticism, and was more likely a part of his training and general lifestyle than any solid belief system - illustrated by how quickly he dispatched his belief after retiring.

I believe a very large percentage of religious people exhibit this kind of belief... more of a lifestyle choice (church, friends, family, etc.) than any actual solid and dependable understanding of the world. Just because you think it - doesn't make it so.

Welcome aboard, Jonathan! Try starting with some Hubble space telescope pictures and marvel at the true non-deistic and emotionally unrestrained grandeur of the Universe.

Peter Hent, Avesbury,

J.E is having a very public midlife crisis. He surely exhibits all the symptons of a clergyman child. He couldnt or wouldnt rebel at 14 so now his rebellion is all the messy for ocurring at 41. For the first time in his life he has had an idependent thought. He finds satisfaction in the fact the thoughts are his and not his fathers. He is his own man at last. There is not only a psychology of faith but also one of unbelief. I wish J.E all the best. He needs to become the prodigal son and leave the elder brother syndrome of always doing the right thing behind.

Brian Midmore, Reading, UK

Explain something to me Ryan and Adam... when a new born child dies, does he/she go to heaven? if someone dies on an off day when they had questioned their belief and decided that there was no god, do they go to hell for that? one other thing...

If the existance of god is less improbable than a big bang, then who created god? or are you going to use the conveniant line of "God is above science!" for every question you ask a Christian/Muslim/Scientologist.. the answer is either documented by some bloke who lived 1800 years ago or you can fill in the gap with the above "ooh, god moves in mysterious ways"

Jonathan Edwards is a great man, who is no longer fooled by the stories of an ancient community, just like we laugh at the Greek gods, the Mayan Sun god (who turned out to be a flaming ball of hydrogen/helium) , so we will some day be amused by the irational belief of Christianity et al... the world will be a better place when that happens. Good luck Jonathan !

Leigh, Cardiff,

Only a Christian could be saddened by someone claiming that they've 'never been happier.' Why must everyone else subscribe to your superstition?

And as for the predictable 'he can't have known the real or true Jesus' comments - please give it a rest. Don't you think Jonathan know his own mind?

Jake, Liverpool, UK

How many of the Christians who posted have Christian parents? Did any of you make up your mind by yourself?

Joe, London,

Congratulations Jonathan. Now you can really live the rest of your life. Lets "pray" that you will become an example for other poor deluded fools.

Mark Allen, Nottingham,

Congratulation to Jonathan. That sort of honesty has to be applauded. You must also realize now that the many medals you won were not from grovelling on your knees to some sky entity but rather purely by your own hard work and talent. (That otherwise sane people do not appreciate the bizarreness of believing that the creator of the universe would even bother, let alone find fair, favouring a sports person or team illustrates again the complete shut-down of thinking of so many theists.)

David Jenkins, Rome, Italy

I am so pleased for Jonathan Edwards, to see religion for what it is is a very uplifting experience. As he says ofthe finality of death, "Just because something is unpalatable does not mean that it is not true.” Enjoy the rest oif your life Jonathan, the rest of us athiests find it okay to see the reality.

It is truly sad that in the 21st centurytthere are still those that believe in superstition, look closer at the world you live in! It is very, very obvious that there is no god.

Stephen Thomas, London,

Do you censor these posts as mine always seem to go missing? I'll try again.

Mr Edwards is only coming to his senses having escaped the constant brainwashing by family and friends. As for Ryan, Adam, ReturnofDemac, and Roberto - most atheists are also humanists. It appears that those who rely on faith in Christianity or Islam, etc. are incapable of understanding that self-belief and goodwill to others are not mutually exclusive.

Eck, Salisbury, UK

Well done to Jonathan for questioning his religious beliefs.

Why should a belief in a God (Thor, Christian, Flying Spaghetti Monster etc..) be required to live a moral life?

"Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around." [Penn Jillette]

Homeworkjunkie, swansea,

I am so sad to read this. I can understand Jonathan's doubts, we all have them at some time or other, but the focus on the "explanation" of Paul's conversion on the road to Damacus is very strange. Don't forget that you also have to account for the whole of Paul's life both before and after this event.

Paul Laidler, Salford,

How marvellous for most of your correspondents that they have their beliefs, and how touching that they think that Jonathan Edwards' loss of faith is merely a blip.

For my part, my opinion of him went even higher than it had been before after reading this interview. How reassuring that someone with a strong faith can retain the capacity for independent thought and reach such a sensible conclusion.

I'd love to see some such (reverse) Damascene conversions happening outside Christianity...the world might be a lot better off.

David Harrison, Manchester, UK

Having read the interview with Jonathan Edwards I respect greatly his honesty. It can't be easy talking about one's loss of faith in the manner that he does i.e. in the media.
Obviously the rejection of his Christain faith makes sad reading not least because the best bit is yet to come. Yet despite everything that is said in the interview Edwards was a marvellous ambassador for Jesus, despite his own doubts.
This article makes me realise that it's important not to simply focus on the messnger but rather the message.

Jonathan East, Stockholm, Sweden

Jonathan Edwards could do worse than google or wikipedia the Sea of Faith network which is a network of similar people (with similar experiences and backgrounds) who generally have come to believe that man created God (not God created man) but still find value in religious / christian practice. Mr Edwards is not alone.

Clem, Oxted, UK

What an interesting interview. I think he has done a very brave thing. I hope that he can help show people that to be nonreligious is not to be pessimistic or immoral.

Incidentally, Adam from Wellington, your remarks show a very large misunderstanding of Big Bang Theory.

Nick, Barcelona,

Jonathan Edwards, I salute you. I only wish more religious people would have the courage and intellectual honesty to examine the beliefs they have been indoctrinated with. Instead most just ignore all the internal inconsistencies and are happy to twist the interpretations of unpalatable sections of the Bible to fit modern ethical standards.

Steven, Oxford,

Stories like this give me great hope for the world's future. That somebody who was blindly following the religion spoon fed to him as a child can take a step back, look at it all rationally and have the courage to change from the collective madness of unquestioning faith in a divine deity. Maybe if more people could think for themselves and come to their senses there would be less hate inspired by religious brand wars. Good on him for realising that you can be a good person, believe in humanity, without needing to have faith that its controlled by an unseeing force or that heaven or damnation await.

Chris , Prague,

Probably Jonathan Edwards does not know it. He might be on his way to discovering God. When faith is built on second hand hearsay and fear it's bound to crumble. You can only have faith in something or someone that you have experienced first hand. Has he seen God? Has Jonathan Edwards felt his presence? Probably not.
The crumbling of this faith built on shaky foundations is the first step towards liberation. This is possible only for a very serious person. A person with a questioning mind.
And I think Jonathan Edwards is that sort of a person.

Sampat Kumar, Bangalore, India

Congratulations, Mr. Edwards.
Now you can concentrate on enjoying your one and only life, and not worry about the non-existent next, nor waste any time on mythical sky-fairies and mumbo-jumbo.
I wish you well, in a completely atheistic way..

John Flemming, Scunthorpe, UK

Jonathan Edwards is simply going through a challenge of life. The fact that he is now questioning his belief in God following his retirement is most likely a result of having the extra time on his hands to ponder life's questions, which many of us are too busy to do. Good on him for thinking them through. That takes courage. In response to this, I would suggest he attend an Alpha Course, where, in a completely non threatening environment, the issues surrounding the existence of God and Jesus Christ are discussed and explored by athiests, agnostics and believers.

Jude, Clapham, London, England

I pray for you

glendeer, London, England

I think the title says it all: "I've never been happier".
Some of the comments from the devout really are deluded; in fact, you'd get more sense out of someone in an asylum.
Mr Edwards has used his head and come to the only logical conclusion, ie, God does not exist in the sense that organised religions claim.
Welcome to the real world, Mr Edwards, and congratulations on getting rid of that great useless weight that is religion from your life.

Eric Blair, London,

Sport and religion seem to provide the discipline and meaning that many people need. Mr Edwards has lost both and come to grips with a more complex reality and I applaud him. Believers would once have demanded violent reprisal for this but today they are just saddened and I applaud that too.

Adam Carpenter, London, UK

What does it profit a man if he gains the whole athletic world
and suffers the loss of his own soul?

Geoffrey Smith, Manchester, England

"Only a relationship with the living God through Christ can save and bring utter fulfilment and joy."

Why?

Now there's a word that isn't used often enough in religion.

starling, Lancaster,

It is desperately hard to break away from the beliefs instilled in you during childhood from parents and teachers, and the realization that you no longer can accept them is shattering. But questioning and then either accepting or rejecting these beliefs is the only way to full maturity.

Good luck Jonathan and thanks for the memories.

SG, London,

Mr Edwards has come to his senses - simple as that.

Terry Sanderson, London, UK

As a doctor, I have seen many times that even those with the seemingly stongest faith can find it severely challenged by the trauma of bereavment. C S Lewis in his Grief Observed does not have the same cool detached confidence of his Mere Christianity.

However the latter book still remains one of the most poweful arguments around for belief in God. I would not be at all surprised, once he has come through this intense period of grief over the loss of his sporting career, if Edwards discovers there are logical as well as emotional reasons for Christian faith.

Dr Trevor Stammers, Epsom, UK

Mr Edwards has simply come to his senses now that he is no longer beng constantly brainwashed by deluded family and 'friends'. As for Ryan, Adam, ReturnofDemac, and Roberto - well, it's just typical that you are totally unable to understand that a person can have sefl-belief without losing humanity. Most atheists are also humanists, wanting and working for the benefit of mankind without the threat/reward nonsense espoused by Christainity and Islam.

Eck, Salisbury, UK

It doesn't surprise me that Mr. Edwards feels no gaping hole in his life since his realization that God was probably non existant. My 'blinding lighton the road to Damascus' came when I suddenly realised that if God existed he had made a monumental disaster of things. I was going to say cock up but decide it was a bit vulgar! At that moment a great weight of guilt lifted from me when I realised that the problems that were confronting me were not punishment for my sins but merely the acts of blind chance. I have lived the remaining 50 years of my life with no feeling of loss on this score and see the increasing chaos in this world as perfect evidence of religious misconceptions.

alan burden, Mijas Malaga, Spain

Like the rest of us, he is living life and trying to make sense of it. I applaud his honesty and wish him the best in his journey through life.

Slow, Singapore,

I think it's great that Jonathon Edwards has been willing to open his eyes to and openly acknowledge reality rather than remaining blinkered and deluded by religious beliefs. "I now realise that my belief in God was sports psychology in all but name" - that's the real truth.

Matthew, Singapore,

I think what Mr Edwards is going through is what many people are going through today. Religious activity can neither save nor satisfy. Empty tradition can't. If it's just a show on the outside, then you're gonna feel empty pretty soon. Only God can save. Only a relationship with the living God through Christ can save and bring utter fulfilment and joy. If he feels more like a human now that he's stop believing in God, it's only because it's an excuse to not be accountable for things done here on earth. Just to justify living like everybody else. Of course it feels much better. It's much easier living for yourself. Only problem is life's not about just you, or me. There's an unendingly grand story of God unfolding and whether we perceive it or not, He will get the glory and honor and we'll have to say to God on that day, "Yup, You were right the whole time". Wish I had believed You."

Ryan, Adelaide, Australia

"When you think about it rationally, it does seem incredibly improbable that there is a God.” Hmmm really? More improbable than life coming from a big bang bang. Ive seen many intricate creations designed by a creator before, never have I seen a random bang and oh! there is a sports car in front of me! Simple reasoning it may seem but it is rational none the less.Now that Jonathan Edwards is retired he no longer needs a god as he no longer needs a peice of gold. He is older, slower and has less discipline in his life. Maybe the god Mr Edwards was worshiping was not the God of the bible but himself.

Adam, Wellington, New Zealand

This article saddens me, in the sense that Jonathan Edwards has lived and breathed a career of dilusion, only now has he come to realise the lie from within his heart.

What gives me hope is that he has many close Christian friends and family who will be there to support him during this time of reflection.

My prayer is that for the first time he will not experience 'Christianity' but rather the true and living God Christ, Jesus.

ReturnofDemac, Glasgow,

I think Mr. Edwards is simply living through the trauma of losing one of the most important things in his life: athletics. I am sure he will find faith again, if a tiny bit more dilute perhaps since he is not called to evangelize crowds through his feats, for the benefit of his family members and closest friends.

Roberto Ruggiu, Rome, Italy