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On Tuesday we will finally know. Brian Ashton announces his 30 for the World
Cup. Next Saturday, he promises to unleash his full first XV, together for
the very first time, to take on the French in fiery Marseilles.
To help Ashton with selection as he sharpens up for the final cut, we brought
together a panel with enough opinions to sink a battleship. Neil Back, in
his time as a World Cup hero, was fit, feisty, almost unnervingly focused.
These days, in his mellow years, coaching at Leicester and in proud
retirement, he is ... completely unchanged. We also brought in our own
Stuart Barnes and Jeremy Guscott, men of such strong views that as they
assert, not once in hundreds of games together and a relationship lasting
nearly 20 years, have they agreed on anything.
As our session unfolded, there were surprises. Who would have thought that the
key to England’s attacking game and Ashton’s whole philosophy would be ...
the 19st lock, Simon Shaw. And from these hard-bitten critics who have
followed England down the world rankings and almost down the drain, we heard
something else. Something remarkable. They whispered it quietly, they have
reservations. But they are optimistic.
SJ: This week is gargantuan. We get the squad, and we’ll know next
Saturday evening whether things really have improved, or if we were all away
with the pixies after all.
SB: The Marseilles game is huge. Brian is absolutely adamant that the
game will be full-on. He says he’s been mixing it up so far, but in
Marseilles, it’s our best team. That England team on Saturday night is the
team to play South Africa in the World Cup. I’ve given England no chance so
far. But if they win in Marseilles against a strong French team, you
suddenly think, “Bloody hell!”
NB: Ashton has to stick to going for the win and not water it down. So
far we’ve seen a big win against a very poor side (Wales). That’s not enough
to go on. In Marseilles we’ll find out where we are. And we need to show
form away from home. Don’t forget the World Cup is away from home.
SJ: Let’s dive straight in then. Are we celebrating the return of a
powerful forward base in the team and of Ashton changing totally his
philosophy?
JG: Am I being too romantic here? Yes I admire their physical
conditioning and power. Isn’t there more to it than that? Against Wales they
attacked down one furrow. Can’t we expect just a little bit of invention?
NB: Correct. If England launch one-off runners they are easy to deal
with. Say you have a group of three coming round the corner inside the
fly-half and another group of three outside. Suddenly, the primary carrier
has all those options inside and outside.
JG: Yes but do England have those clever players Backy? We don’t look
like the Brazilian football team to me.
SB: We know already this team will not be playing nearly as wide as
Ashton’s normal teams but they have got something to offer. Matt Stevens has
lovely hands. I saw Andy Sheridan in training this week giving a lovely
inside ball. And what about big Shawsy? He’s 19st, but he has the ability to
run at you and then let it go at the last minute. Shaw can be a symbol of
what England are trying to do, to have the power but expand and have options
in attack, as Backy says.
SJ: Let’s find a squad and a first XV then. Two men have been talked
about as much as all the rest of the possible selections combined. Lawrence
Dallaglio and Andy Farrell. Jeremy, you rubbished Lawrence’s chances in your
column not so long ago. You said he should be put out to grass. I understand
Lawrence was so annoyed that you didn’t go out with him for a major drink-up
for a whole three days. Do you regret that attack now?
JG: No, not at all. At that time, Lol was nowhere near where he is now.
Last week when he came on against Wales, he looked fantastic, almost like he
did in 2003, and on the Lions tour in ’05 before he got injured.
NB: I am not quite sure where he is physically but it seems to be that
typically, he has timed his run into top physical condition and also his
media furore, to perfection.
SJ: Neil! You are surely not suggesting that Lawrence uses the media to
advance his cause now and again, are you?
NB: All the really great players talk about themselves really well. You
have got to believe you are the best. He thinks it, and that kind of belief
rubs off on others.
SB: Lawrence is a force of nature. The way he gets himself ready for
big games is staggering. Look at him in the Heineken final, and coming off
the bench last week. Just to see him strutting round the England team hotel
lately has been something.
SJ: It seems that he has also been reembraced. In the Andy Robinson era
when Martin Corry was captain, it seemed that Lol was seen as the dodgy old
uncle up in the loft who’d gone wrong. But I am yet to be convinced that
Nick Easter is explosive enough or a ball player. It’s a cruel thing to drop
a bloke who scored four tries, maybe even from the 30.
SB: It’s not cruel. Scoring four tries from a total distance of a metre
is neither here nor there. It’s just tabloid headline stuff.
SJ: Let’s move on to the vexatious question of Andy Farrell.
JG: It’s not vexatious. It cannot happen. I love Brian. I love his
thought processes. But we could fall out over Andy. It’s run its course.
They’ve made him defensive leader, but that strikes me as trying to find a
role for him. Last week, for example, he tried really hard but he held on to
ball that should have gone. Sorry, but he hasn’t got it.
SB: It’s many years since I agreed wholeheartedly with Jeremy Guscott.
In fact, I can’t remember that last time.
SJ: But you two played together all those years.
SB/JG: So what?
NB: I also have a real defensive worry with Farrell. Whenever the
Tigers play Saracens we always plan to get around him in defence. I would
have liked to see him play against France yesterday to be really tested.
Last week he did the basics well ...
SB: But did he though, Backy? Surely he was brought in to be a kind of
super-strong version of Will Greenwood. When I went to Twickenham last week
I had a dream of Danny Hipkiss and Jason Robinson picking the lines late,
coming on to the short passes from Farrell, which is what he is meant to be
good at. But where were the offloads?
SJ: Let’s stay in midfield. The vibes are that neither [Mike] Tindall
or [Charlie] Hodgson are going to make it and for me, that is desperate news
on both counts. You don’t want Farrell to start, not even by default because
he’s a big bloke with something of a kicking game? But someone has to play
12. Who?
SB: Well I suppose that snce we are talking effectively about England
playing South Africa here, and as there is a school of thought that South
Africa have three big bangers in their back row, you could slide Farrell in
to defend at No 10, with Jonny in the next channel. You stand toe to toe
against the Boks and stop them, because Butch James can't play. Farrell does
have that kicking game, I suppose.
JG: Barnesy, that is really negative.
SB: I prefer to say that is understandably pragmatic but yes, it is
negative.
SJ: I repeat. Who is the England inside centre then?
JG: Mike Catt.
NB: (long pause) Catt.
SB: Well, Catt, but with Olly Barkley as a serious option if he goes
well. Catty throws those bloody great big miss balls.
SJ Don’t we like those big miss balls?
SB: Not when Bryan Habana is coming on the interception, we don’t!
There will be one try in it between England and South Africa and give Habana
the ball 70 yards out, he’s gone.
SJ: I wonder about Catty physically these days against all those 18st
giants coming down his channel. And that’s just the backs. Josh Lewsey will
hate this because he wants a position to stick to. But I would choose him in
the centre alongside Hipkiss, not only for his strength and power, but
because he is a great player seriously misunderstood. Moving outwards, is
Danny Hipkiss the best outside-centre prospect since Jerry? I am excited
about him.
SB: Very good player but not yet. If we are saying that Mike Tindall
won’t make it, I think Jamie Noon can do a great job at outside centre. I
never thought he was world-class but he is strong and direct.
JG: Jamie Noon has never had a bad game for England. If I was playing
against Danny I would feel that if I got a yard on him on the outside, I
would be past him.
NB: Actually, I have no qualms about Danny’s defence at all. I have
worked with him on his hitting low and positioning himself on the outside so
if they do try to step him, they step in to a full body tackle. Danny’s
level headed. His hands may not be as assured as they might be, but he is
brilliant at keeping his feet and allowing the other players to latch on. I
have seen him being picked up by the Leicester forwards and thrown forward
20 or 30 metres. Very strong.
SJ: The great blow was the loss of Harry Ellis, who had just begun to
fulfill himself. We've seen a revival in Shaun Perry. Is he the man?
NB: I was disappointed with Perry last season. He looked short of a bit
of pace and he didn't seem to be making the breaks. But he can release other
players round the contact areas.
JG: Sometimes, Perry seems just a nano-second too slow. At the moment,
Jonny Wilkinson needs all the time he can get. Andy Gomarsall seens to me to
be the best exponent because he gets the ball out quickly
SB: Perry had second season syndrome but I like him. The way that
Bristol play, with someone like Jason Strange at fly-half kicking a fair
bit, Perry felt like he had to take things on himself. Let's go back to
South Africa because that is who we are planning for. The Boks play a blitz
defence, you have to hit through that middle channel and you need a
scrum-half like Perry, who can hurt you there.
SJ: The other disaster area since 2003 has been open-side flanker.
Neil, how well or badly has your jersey been worn since you retired and who
would you play there?
NB: They never got the combination right. Yes, we have had some great
ball carriers. But one of the three has to be someone whose instinct is
totally to support and win the ball. I knew I wasn’t the best ball carrier
so we’d give someone else the ball and I’d go and win it back. Now, I’d be
telling someone like Lewis Moody, “Look, we know you are a good ball
carrier, but think about supporting the carrier and rewinning the ball”.
JG: It seems to me that they have all got mixed messages.
SJ: I know Stuart found something to criticise in Joe Worsley last
week. We both thought that he coped brilliantly on the open side but there
was that horrible moment when he blew a try through a lack of vision. But
when he is on song, he has so much. But if Tom Rees is fit I think he is the
next world-class bolter. What about the back three? I am sorry that David
Strettle is injured but surely to goodness they were never thinking of
leaving out Josh Lewsey for the youngsters?
JG: I would go for Danny Cipriani at full-back and Josh on the wing.
You could pick Josh at 15 and he’d be fine, but he does run in straight
lines. Cipriani can spin on a sixpence. In sport, there are some special
kids who can deliver. He is one.
NB: But Jeremy, can he get back to make that tackle once the lines
break has been made?
JG: Yes, at least as well as any of the other contenders.
SB: I think at full-back, that Brian has long seen Mark Cueto as the
man with vision, and he also has a kicking game. If Brian has physicality on
the wings, he will want a footballer at full-back. Jason Robinson will be on
one wing, because he is England’s best finisher.
NB: I was disappointed with Josh in the Six Nations. They were right to
drop him and some of his body language was lacking. Now he seems more
grounded.
SJ: Stuart, we always disagree on age against beauty. Have Barnesy’s
Babes – like Tait, Flood, Abendanon, Strettle – now been knocked back to the
next World Cup, where I believe they belong?
SB: I think Mathew Tait should go to this World Cup because he is a
talent, though when you see him picked up and tossed around it’s not a great
sight. He isn’t small but, in a sense, he plays as if he is.
SJ: What about the middle of the lineout. Am I being old-fashioned in
wanting a horrible giant there? Who is the best bet?
NB: Ben Kay for me. He is a great lineout leader, a key decision maker
in seeing where the opening is. He runs great lines in attack and spots the
holes, he makes big hits. That gives him the edge over Steve Borthwick for
me.
SB: When we are not certain that means we don't have a dominant player.
Ben Kay struggled in the Heineken Cup final so there are reservations. But
he has over Borthwick and Tom Palmer an extra physicality. He is smart, he
hits the holes.
SJ: But why all the ups and downs in the form of Kay, Lawrence;
everyone, in fact?
NB: You’ve got to understand that Lawrence and others cannot be up
there all the time. Your standards drop. It is only once every four years
that we can get into proper preparation, because it’s the only time that the
club v country thing allows it. You need rest. You need to recover after
training. You need to sort out those little niggles and go in for those
rubs. You need to hydrate all the time and take on the right foods. Now,
they are doing all that.
SJ: That’s very telling Neil. You seem to be saying that England will
only be able to prepare properly, and reach a peak, once every four years
when the World Cup is looming.
NB: As a collective, yes, that’s true.
SJ: Finally. Can England win it? Straight answer?
JG: Well, I’d be gobsmacked. But if they keep progressing ...
SB: Six months ago, absolutely no chance. But you do start to wonder
just a little bit. I still think they will lose in the semi-final but if I
give them a 10% chance that’s 10% more than I did a few weeks ago.
NB: We haven’t won two big games back to back for ever, But they can
win because their best XV can beat anyone. My head says no way. My heart
says that they can.
SJ: Finally, can someone ring Andy Goode to commiserate. He’s the only
Tiger not in Backy’s team. Neil Back, Jeremy Guscott, Stuart Barnes and
Stephen Jones select their England XV and the rest of the squad for the
World Cup. The selections assume the absence of Dan Ward-Smith, David
Strettle, Charlie Hodgson and Mike Tindall for the tournament in France next
month
Who should play for England? Our pundits make their choice...
Neil Back’s England team Mark Cueto; Josh Lewsey, Mike Catt,
Danny Hipkiss, Jason Robinson; Jonny Wilkinson, Shaun Perry; Andrew
Sheridan, George Chuter, Phil Vickery, Simon Shaw, Ben Kay, Joe Worsley,
Martin Corry, Lewis Moody
Also in RWC squad: Danny Cipriani, Paul Sackey, Olly Barkley; Mathew
Tait, Andy Farrell, Jamie Noon, Andy Gomarsall, Peter Richards; Perry
Freshwater, Mark Regan, Lee Mears, Matt Stevens, Steve Borthwick, Lawrence
Dallaglio, Tom Rees
Staying home: Nick Abendanon, Toby Flood, Kevin Yates, James Haskell,
Tom Palmer, Nick Easter
Stuart Barnes’s England team Mark Cueto; Josh Lewsey, Mike Catt,
Jamie Noon, Jason Robinson; Jonny Wilkinson, Shaun Perry; Andrew Sheridan,
Mark Regan, Phil Vickery, Simon Shaw, Ben Kay, Joe Worsley, Lawrence
Dallaglio, Tom Rees
Also in RWC squad: Nick Abendanon, Olly Barkley, Andy Farrell, Danny
Hipkiss, Paul Sackey, Mathew Tait, Andy Gomarsall, Peter Richards; Perry
Freshwater, Matt Stevens, George Chuter, Lee Mears, Martin Corry, Tom
Palmer, James Haskell
Staying home: Danny Cipriani, Toby Flood, Kevin Yates, Steve
Borthwick, Lewis Moody, Nick Easter
Jeremy Guscott’s England team Danny Cipriani; Josh Lewsey, Mike
Catt, Danny Hipkiss, Jason Robinson; Jonny Wilkinson, Shaun Perry; Andrew
Sheridan, Mark Regan, Phil Vickery, Simon Shaw, Ben Kay, Nick Easter,
Lawrence Dallaglio, Joe Worsley
Also in RWC squad: Nick Abendanon, Mark Cueto, Olly Barkley, Mathew
Tait, Jamie Noon, Andy Gomarsall, Peter Richards; Matt Stevens, Kevin Yates,
Lee Mears, George Chuter, Tom Palmer, James Haskell, Martin Corry, Tom Rees
Staying home: Paul Sackey, Andy Farrell, Toby Flood, Perry Freshwater,
Steve Borthwick, Lewis Moody
Stephen Jones’s England team Danny Cipriani; Paul Sackey, Danny
Hipkiss, Josh Lewsey, Jason Robinson; Jonny Wilkinson, Shaun Perry; Andrew
Sheridan, Mark Regan, Phil Vickery, Simon Shaw, Ben Kay, Joe Worsley,
Lawrence Dallaglio, Tom Rees
Also in RWC squad: Mark Cueto, Mike Catt, Olly Barkley, Jamie Noon,
Andy Gomarsall, Peter Richards; Kevin Yates, Perry Freshwater, Lee Mears,
George Chuter, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Martin Corry, Lewis Moody, James
Haskell
Staying home: Nick Abendanon, Mathew Tait, Toby Flood, Andy Farrell,
Steve Borthwick, Nick Easter
