How depressing.... a genuinely moving article about maintaining a perspective on the importance of sport and someone tries to high-jack it for Nationalistic political purposes.

I have been to Thiepville and found it a moving and humbling experience. I also went to the battleground of the Newfoundland regiment at Beaumont-Hamel near Albert (they bought their battleground after the war to serve as a memorial), a visit to which should be part of the national curriculum. I am pleased (but not surprised) that rugby players of all nations honour the young men who gave their life in battle. It just raises them even higher in my estimation.

One small point – the monument at Thiepville honours the 72,000 *Allied* soldiers whose remains were never recovered. Many tens of thousands of Germans, and their allies, disappeared with no trace in the terrible battles of the Somme.

Tim, Hove,Actually,

I don't see any implication that anyone's visit to the battlefield is PR frippery.

Jamie Gilmour, Bolton, UK

Frank,

That is not what the article said!!

Darrin, Egham, UK

At what point does the above article consider the NZ visits as PR? Am I missing something?

witheld, bristol,

Frank - I dont think that is what the author meant at all. The comments about PR or public frippery are in a separate paragraph and not related to the US, Australia and New Zealand team visits to respective war memorials.

Rob Searle, Bristol, United Kingdon

I cannot see any evidence of conflating the respect New Zealanders have for the losses in European wars to PR frippery.

I must have read it differently fo Mr Wellington.

Russ KEnt, Maastricht NL,

Thanks very much for the history lesson Frank, but there was no implication that AB visits are 'flippent'. So you can climb off your soap box and actually read his line again:

"Do not, though, confuse yesterday’s England trip with the PR or public frippery that is often immersed in the professional sport of today."

Now, note the important part:
"...that is often immersed in the professional sport of today."

Nothing to suggest he's talking about AB trips.

Alan, Dublin, Irealnd

frank

I think you have read this the wrong way. In no way at all does the article accuse the All Blacks of displaying PR fippery.

The comment is aimed at, in my opinion, other branches of professional sport, not the All Blacks.

A Thorn, London,

I feel Owen Slot's article is well balanced, it would be a hard heart that felt no emotion when contemplating such horrendous loss of life. It is wonderful that my grandfather L.A.N.Slocock is still remembered (England.Captain v. Scotand March 1908). My father was only two when L.A.N was killed but my family often think of him. Thank you Brian Ashton and the current England squad for honouring his memory and that of so many others, they will be urging you on.

Richard Slocock, Dorchester Dorset, England

Frank, I think you need to lighten up a bit. I don't think the author is comparing anything NZ do with PR stunts, he's just pointing out that what England are doing is not one, as opposed to what goes on in alot of professional sport in general.

Matt, London, UK

To Frank Stark I have read the article and see no connection whatsoever being made between New Zealands respect for the war dead and "PR frippery" at all , I fear you totally missed the point of a very intelligent piece of writing. You then begin to spout some sort of nonsense about colonial troops being used as machine gun fodder by British high command and then even more strangely finished off with a rant about English Rugby and Alistair Campbell? I suggest you read the article properly and then read some history books . I then sincerely hope you may begin then to gain some sense of perspective regarding all of the subjects in the article.

David W, Basingstoke,

Frank, for God's sake, there is no connection made in the article between the New Zealand rugby team and PR frippery. Owen Slot is talking generally about the PR aspect which is immersed in professional sport today - it's in a separate paragraph to the previous one, when he mentions the US and Australians too. Why do Kiwis constantly see put-downs that don't exist? Why are you so convinced that the English are always out to belittle you?

Frank, Sheffield,

Although I completely agree with the remainder of Mr Starks views, and am sure question marks are raised in respect of the use of colonial forces as 'cannon fodder' I have to disagree with the 'extraordinary arrogance' comment.

The article makes no mention of New Zealand using the trips for PR purposes, indeed it notes that New Zealand players pay their respects annually when they play in the Northern Hemisphere. I am sure nobody else who reads the article could mistake the Kiwis genuine remembrance with PR! I actually consider the article to be aimed at cynical use of emotional events by sport in general, which in rugbys case is rare anyway, given the innate intelligence and reasonableness of those who are involved in the sport.

J Woodham, London, England

Frank Stark -oh dear, clearly you did not read the article carefully!

Tim Kelly, Oxford, UK

And also Frank, it's good to know the ABs have so much genuine emotion and respect for the past that they've changed their traditional Haka to a nice new one with pleasant throat slitting gestures. It'll probably be sponsored by Adidias next. Also a shame you don't respect the nationalities of half the island players you pinch as well.

Matt, London, UK

Mr Stark, please go back and read the article again. Owen Slot wrote no such thing. Your comments form an unfortunate appendage to a poignant, thought-provoking piece.

David Foster, Stockholm, Sweden

I think we would all do well remembering those that lost their lives in the two World Wars, and it is good to see the England team doing the same.

Frank Stark - I think you have misread the article, there is clearly no link between the second and third paragraphs, the reference to PR frippery is a reference to how British professional sport is normally run, it has nothing to do with New Zealand's obviously genuine trips to wartime memorials.

Matthew W, London,

There is nothing in the article that suggests New Zealand are any more or less culpable to the "PR or public frippery that is often immersed in the professional sport of today" than any other team.

His point is to suggest the actions of the Rugby WC teams should not be mistaken for such. What are you reading Frank?

tom, london,

I don't think Owen Slot intended to link "PR frippery" with the All Blacks recent trips at all. The two subject matters are in different paragraphs. It just so happens that one follows the other. And its a bit mean sprited for of Mr. Stark of Wellington to imply that "English rugby" does not have genuine respect for the sacrifices of past generations. So lets not extrapolate one man's words into sweeping assumptions about how thousands of people think. After all, that's how wars start.

Iain Bennett, London, England

To be fair to Owen Slot, Frank, I don't think he wrote what you say he wrote. No one denies the enormous sacrifice made by the Kiwis in WW1 and in other conflicts. I certainly don't. Over here on Anzac Day the media is prone to re-telling the story of Gallipolli as though there were only Aussies there. Anyone who knows their history respects New Zealand for many things including the courage and dignity of its men and women in war.

Philip Sutherland, Sydney, Australia

Dear Frank - I think you have misunderstood the tone and
points made in Owen's article.


Old Walcountians 5ths (Ret)

Jon, Tunbridge Wells, UK

To Frank from Wellington. You misread the point of the article - the mention of New Zealand players touring European battlefields was not intended to be connected to the next paragraph mentioning PR frippery!

Get the chip off your shoulder - and IF the All Blacks finally manage to win the tournament (for the first time since 1987), try to be magnanimous in victory and join the current players in maintaining some perspective on its significance in comparison to the huge sacrifice made by all the soldiers of the British Empire killed in those two world wars. Rugby is just a game after all!

M Graham, Penang, Malaysia

What extraordinary arrogance. To conflate the respect maintained in New Zealand for the thousands slaughtered in European wars with "PR... frippery" is to insult both the dead and those who honour them. Proportionately, New Zealand suffered higher causalties than Britain in World War I - often in pointless adventures where the cynical decisions of the (British) High Command to use colonial troops as machine-gun fodder has long been questioned.

New Zealanders - not least members of the All Blacks - are still highly conscious of this legacy and its horrible consequences. A particular focus for this feeling is Dave Gallagher, the captain of the 1905 All Black Originals, who went on to volunteer to fight in France and die at Ypres aged 43. A trophy named for Gallagher is at stake when New Zealand plays France.

However much English rugby has fallen into the hands of Alistair Campbell and his ilk, there is still genuine emotion and repect for the past left in the game in this country.

frank stark, wellington, new zealand

Correction:

I inadvertantly typed "Gallagher" - when it should have been "Gallaher"

frank stark, wellington, new zealand