Nick Cain
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The international refereeing chief said last night that the television match official had made an “absolutely brilliant decision” in disallowing England wing Mark Cueto’s second-half “try” in the World Cup final.
Stuart Dickinson, the Australian television match official, consulted replays for about three minutes before ruling that the touchdown by Cueto at the start of the second half should not stand because he had put a foot in touch. South Africa were leading 9-3 at the time.
Paddy O’Brien, the referees manager for the International Rugby Board, said: “It was an absolutely brilliant decision by the television match official, and there is a great photo of his [Cueto’s] foot just on the line prior to grounding the ball. There is no issue, there is no doubt. People may criticise officials for taking time, but it is better that it is correct.”
England refused to make a huge issue of the decision but Cueto was in no doubt that he had scored. “You generally have a good feeling straight away when you think you have scored a try. I thought it was a legitimate try, and I went straight back to the restart. As long as I live I will tell people it was a try.”
Asked whether it could have changed the outcome of the game, Cueto said: “Neither team looked like scoring so it could have been the game. It is very disappointing but the decision has been made and you have to crack on.” Captain Phil Vickery took a positive view of England’s World Cup revival, saying: “I can’t fault anyone. We’ve had a magical time here. Fair play to South Africa, they were the better team and this is their victory.” Vickery refused to criticise Dickinson, although he did acknowledge that England had failed to get the rub of the green. “In the end, at crucial times there were crucial decisions – not just from players, but officials – and the game swung. But we didn’t have enough in fairness, and huge credit to South Africa for the way they stuck to their guns.”
Coach Brian Ashton, praised his squad for their efforts. “I am incredibly proud of the players and I think they have done an incredible job to get to a World Cup final.”
Asked what his immediate plans were, Ashton said that he intended to have a drink with the players, and get a smile back on their faces. Other than that he did not know what was in store for him as his contract as head coach finishes at the end of December.
Ashton said that he felt that the scoreline had not done justice to England’s performance. “There were times when we just didn’t execute well enough, but we were unlucky on a couple of occasions, and I honestly do not think that 15-6 reflected the difference between the two sides.”
Flanker Martin Corry said: “You can’t fault the effort. You can’t fault the heart of everyone. It’s just a shame when it all counts for nothing. We gave it everything.”
Asked if it was the right decision, to disallow Cueto’s try, Corry added: “I don’t know. You have to get on with it.”
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As an English fan I was disappointed by the decision. In this case the decision was sent to the video referee and he made a decision which whether right or wrong is final. That is the way that we in rugby have always taken referee's decisions - and long may it be so.
We should not look for technicalities on whether the decision was within the power of the 4th official, a referral should always look to make the right decision. We do not want some of the rules that apply in cricket where a 4th official would know that the ball had not hit the bat but that it had carried to the fielder who caught it.
It appears that the decision of the referee was totally vindicated 24 hours later, which is satisfying for the referee, bur irrelevent for the game.
Iain - Lux, Bertrange, Luxembourg
To 'Rugby Fan London' please do not call me pathetic for having an opinion.
The still that appeared 24 hours after the match was finished and the 'brilliant' third official couldn't even get the correct angles and freeze frames up because he couldn't make himself understood to the people running the film.
So as I stated there was no evidence to justify overturning the linesmans decision no flag equals try and the ref who would have given a try if video refs had not been avaiable.
You cant defend a marginal decision and the person who made it because 24 hours later evidence appears that might support it.
The Australian had what the tv audience had, ie not enough. When the video ref is asked is there a compelling reason why I cannot award a try? He cant say 'not sure, dont give England a try and the Times will have evidence Monday to support it'.
I wouldn't like to say it was or wasn't a try but I wouldn't have overuled 2 match officials without definitive evidence.
Nick, Sutton, uk
Kiwis were given grief for whinging about the refereeing mistake that went against them. In that situation it was clear to all that it was a forward pass, in this situation it is clear to most that it was not a try. Mark Cueto has not helped Englands reputation by his comments, the All Blacks coach and players have not made one comment about the call that went against them. Pity the NZ media didn't do the same.
I think most agree that France and South Africa deserved to win their respective games. But it does raise the issue about the quality of refereeing at this World Cup. Admittedly I'm a New Zealander, but I thought it was not at a level befitting the rest of the event, which has been superb. In the final for example, I thought there were a number of obstruction calls that were not made against South Africa at crucial times and within kicking distance.
It's amazing Paddy continues to defend his team, but as he protects his referees, he is of course protecting himself.
Graeme, Seoul, South Korea
Er - Most of us have thanks.
Has anyone thought that Cueto's comment might have been taken out of context? You know, 'as long as I live..... it was a try' - i'll tell my grandkids that it was even though it wasn't. I believe Ali Williams also ran back to the 1/2 way line after thinking that he had scored against France, on a far clearer decision. Personally, I would have loved it to be a try but it was one of those where it could have been 50:50. As it was, it went against us, it happens and we move on.
Now if the collective Aussies and Kiwis wouldn't mind shutting up about arrogance.The best team in the tournament won, followed by the team with the most heart (Argentina possibly excepted).
You can play your 7th - 8th place playoff in the Bledisloe Cup next year.
Matt, london,
Sour grapes guys...
There is a video still in The Times this morning clearly showing Cueto's toe on the line with the ball still a foot off the ground.
You just need to face the fact that the Australian referee you're vilifying actually made probably the toughest call of his career and got it 100% right.
It is a little unfortunate that just about every website and paper in the UK seems to be carrying the photo where Cueto has his leg clearly in the air - guess printing the one showing him putting a toe into touch isn't going to sell any papers. Well done to The Times for providing some balanced reporting.
England supporters - how about for once just putting your hands up and saying you were beaten fair and square by the better team...
Isn't that what sport is all about ?
Allan, London,
Mark Cueto's comment is the perfect example of why evryone things England rugby players are arrogant and why you get comments that 'everyone hates the English' Grow up Cueto, you are a better player than that.
As for Vickery's comment that crucial decisions that didn't go their way, what about England avoiding at least 2 yellow cards. The disgusting displays of unsportsmanlike behaviour by Lewis Moody and Toby Flood both should have resulted in the players been sent off, esp Flood as Percy Montgomery could have been badly injured being pushed into the camera. For supposedly professional rugby players and in the World Cup final, they bring the game into disrepute.
Nic, London,
Well I've sat and watched the replay many times now, and can't see how anybody can make a positive decision of if the foot touched the line or not. (it took the ref 3 minutes)The foot was positivley rising as it moved towards the line . As we lost there is nothing I would like better than to say it was out. Unfortunatly I can't say that. So enjoy it you anybody but the English crowd, because that makes it harder to take. On another note look at Matfield laying on the wrong side of the ruck grab hold of Gommarsels leg before he passes it to Caeto If he tried to run he wouldn't have been able too. Penalty try and yellow card right there. Having said that you have to live with the missed calls, but not the ones made by video refs!!
STEVE, MIAMI BEACH, USA
Clearly the fairweather England supporters drafted in from supporting england's losing football team need to learn the rules of rugby. When your foot goes in to touch while you are in posession of the ball, it's out, regardless of whether you come back in to the field of play again.
Why is it only in the minds of England supporters that Cuteo scored a try?
If players 'knew' every time a try was scored, there would be no need for a video ref, or a ref, or linesmen for that matter...
K McCann, London,
Yes hillarious indeed.
It was COMPREHENSIVE that it was NOT a try, toe on line = out of play.
And isnt it even more hillarious that a nation famous for its whinging gave so much abuse towards NZ for doing the same now feels that they are warranted to whinge about a referee happy to "find a reason to help his southern hemispere buddies."
Pathetic.
Rugby Fan, London, UK
Cueto's toe touched the white wash for a split second and then lifted. So at the point of touch down, it looked like a try, however the decision 'no try' was given prior to the grounding!! Very haed to take, but I am afraid the TMO was 100% right!! Have another impartial look without six pints in the system!!
Ross, Chester, England
Should have gone to Specsavers, mate !
Comments like:
"Was Stuart Dickinson's decision one of the worst and most incomprehensible in the history of sport - unquestionably"
and
"There was simply no evidence available to him, part of Cueto's leg was over the line but he could not tell if it was grounded"
and off course Cueto's
"As long as I live I will tell people it was a try"
would be quite comic if it wasn't so sad. These people must be blind as bats, as the frame-by-frame clearly shows the foot on the line before the ball is grounded. But then there obviously is a reason for the saying:
"There is none so blind as he who does not want to see!"
Leon, Southampton, UK
Yes of course it was try. Did it affect the final outcome - possibly. Were South Africa the better side - probably. Was Stuart Dickinson's decision one of the worst and most incomprehensible in the history of sport - unquestionably. Are we right to say so - definitely!
Colin Smith, London,
Absolutely brilliant decision! That really is hillarious. He was asked if he had compelling evidence why a try could not be awarded. He spent 3 minutes or was it 3 hours trying to find some. Didn't and close to disallow it anyway. There was simply no evidence available to him, part of Cueto's leg was over the line but he could not tell if it was grounded. The touch judge said no, the video ref clearly paying back the awful Andre Watson for saving Australia from a 50 point drubbing in the 03' final found evidence baring no relation to anything available to the whole rest of the world and said no try. If he couldnt find a reason not to give it after 45secs then there isn't one. He took 3mins to justify a decision that in reality was a shocker. Surely all the officials should be neutral, ie not from a team that gloated how they were going to destroy us and were soundly beaten. Not saying he cheated just was happier to 'find' a reason to help his southern hemispere buddies.
Nick, Sutton, uk
The height of arrogance:
"England refused to make a huge issue of the decision but Cueto was in no doubt that he had scored. âYou generally have a good feeling straight away when you think you have scored a try. I thought it was a legitimate try, and I went straight back to the restart. As long as I live I will tell people it was a try.â
Only an Englishmen could say those words & really mean it. The reason England didn't make a huge issue out of it is because it was fairly clear cut from the tv camera angle directly behind the player. Anyway, a free lesson on how to be arrogant in defeat.
Johnny99, London, UK
Well, O'Brien's hardly going to say Dickinson was wrong is he?
But that's not the point. The point is that we were beaten by a better side on the night. I personally am fed up with listening to personal comments about us by individuals like Ai Rui Sheng, who seem. like the Head of the Australian RFU, to have something aganist us just because we are English, or other southern hemisphere countries making excuses for being beaten without praising the other side, and insulting our play and our players.
And a 'country mile'. Now that's a joke. Even John Smith, gracious in victory, had the grace to concede that the game could have gone either way. This World Cup has been marked for the lack of such comments among players and supporters alike, particularly from the southern hemisphere. It does no good for the game, and should stop.
Nick, London, UK
The scoreboard says we lost, lests not turn into a load of whinging antipodeans please. Well done Boks, you make good champions.
Terry, Guildford,
Wishing that it were "so" doesn't make it "so".
The TMO saw Cueto's left toe drag onto the whitewash. Under the laws of the game, that is a reason not to award the try, which is the question asked by the referee. Doubt didn't come into it.
Paul's thinly veiled accusation of bias against a globally respected official is in stark contrast to the many, better informed English fans who have been magnanimous in defeat.
Personally, I'd be very surprised if Cueto continues to delude himself after the dust settles and rationality returns.
Bruce, Cork , Ireland
Sorry Paddy it was not a brilliant decision. Check out the BBC web site and you will see clearly that it was a try. nice pic!! I thought the use of video referees was supposed to remove this sort of error.
steve barton, swindon, UK
Paddy OâBrien? Me thinks you do protest too much.
It was a shocker, if it took so long then it was in doubt, the rule is "can you see anything to stop me awarding the try".
The doubt goes to the attacking team.
It should have been awarded, were the Bokke better, probably, but then they shouldnt need an Aussie to steal a try from the English to win the Cup.
Funny how it was an Aussie TV ref.
Paul, london,
Why do we have to listen to commentators who know little about the game and are so partial. Thank God I will never ever have to listen to an Englishmen call his team the defending champions again. There was no try. Get with the program! Northern rugby is as useful as a Stefan Jones column or Suzie Barnes.
There is no prize for coming second, particularly by a country mile.
Ai Rui Sheng, Shanghai, PR China